Union Bosses Drive Away Another 325,000 Members

[hvacpope]

Organized labor's 2006 membership numbers have been published, and they don't look good for union bosses whose salaries depend on forced dues from unionized employees. On January 25 the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the number of Americans who are members of unions shrank by 325,000.

The percentage of private-sector employees in unions dropped to 7.4% a rate unseen in almost a century. Meanwhile, more than a third 36.2%, to be precise of government employees are unionized, although even that figure is down 0.3% from the previous year.

Blaming the decline on supposed employer intimidation, union leaders are desperately rallying their favored politicians around the so-called Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA). If it became law, this bill would likely increase the dues money flowing into union coffers -- by removing employees' best defense against intimidation by unions and employers alike. Under current law, employees considering unionization are entitled to a secret ballot election to decide the question. Under the EFCA, however, elections would be replaced with "card check," a process under which employees receive no secret ballots but must instead indicate their preferences openly to union organizers and employers.

looks like Tony Soprano is in big trouble.

[fastfred]

Organized labor's 2006 membership numbers have been published, and they don't look good for union bosses whose salaries depend on forced dues from unionized employees. On January 25 the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the number of Americans who are members of unions shrank by 325,000.

The percentage of private-sector employees in unions dropped to 7.4% a rate unseen in almost a century. Meanwhile, more than a third 36.2%, to be precise of government employees are unionized, although even that figure is down 0.3% from the previous year.

Blaming the decline on supposed employer intimidation, union leaders are desperately rallying their favored politicians around the so-called Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA). If it became law, this bill would likely increase the dues money flowing into union coffers -- by removing employees' best defense against intimidation by unions and employers alike. Under current law, employees considering unionization are entitled to a secret ballot election to decide the question. Under the EFCA, however, elections would be replaced with "card check," a process under which employees receive no secret ballots but must instead indicate their preferences openly to union organizers and employers.

looks like Tony Soprano is in big trouble.:D




If YOU are unhappy as a union worker,withdraw and find the relief you obviously seek, in some other position.

[PrestonPierce]

Organized labor's 2006 membership numbers have been published, and they don't look good for union bosses whose salaries depend on forced dues from unionized employees. On January 25 the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the number of Americans who are members of unions shrank by 325,000...
I assume the owner of your company doesn't make any money on your skills.:rolleyes: How would you propose paying them if we did not pay dues? Everyone in management at my local came out of the field to hold the office their in.Thing is that even after dues are paid it is still top scale in the industry for 99% of the people in it.




The percentage of private-sector employees in unions dropped to 7.4% a rate unseen in almost a century. Meanwhile, more than a third 36.2%, to be precise of government employees are unionized, although even that figure is down 0.3% from the previous year. ..


Does this mean things are better or worse ? I would say worse for the American worker ,but still not too bad considering the leadership in congress and in the white house the last six years




Blaming the decline on supposed employer intimidation, union leaders are desperately rallying their favored politicians around the so-called Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA). If it became law, this bill would likely increase the dues money flowing into union coffers --<b>by increasing the number of good union jobs</b>
.. I agree





Under current law, employees considering unionization are entitled to a secret ballot election to decide the question. Under the EFCA, however, elections would be replaced with "card check," a process under which employees receive no secret ballots but must instead indicate their preferences openly to union organizers and employers.

looks like Tony Soprano is in big trouble.

Unions will let you vote however you want to ,why do you think they would care if it was secret or not, I assure you they prefer it to be a secret ballot.
It would probably do more harm than good and I don't think it would be used in a trade union,, in fact if they were as crooked as you think they are, then open ballot would be the last thing they want.

[hvacpope]

Preston,
I’m not affiliated to labor unions, as a matter of fact I despise them got nothing against the workers just the whole unions concepts and politics are the parts that’s sort of ticked me off.
Unions in general are bad for our country; they are like cancer wont kill you it drives you out of business.
Here in NY we pay such high taxes because of the government services employees, the teachers, the firefighter,the police and the many others unions were given green light to openly steal tons of taxpayers dollars every year.

Unions are not better than welfare and union bosses and workers are the recipients, at the end we taxpayers pick the tab.
Unions put us at economical disadvantage with the rest of the world, classic examples are the auto and the airline industries once vibrant now dying breeds, if it wasn’t because taxpayers subsidies and a hand full of crooks in Washington, most unions would had been like the dinosaurs long gone instead we loose good American jobs because of them.
You are entitle to your opinion and since you are benefiting big time from such corrupts organizations I don’t expect you to change of even attempt to comprehend my points of view.

[Special Ed]

Unions could be blamed for driving many companies to build plants overseas. After all, how can co.'s afford to pay the exorbitantly high wages of its workers & keep their prices competitive?

[smokin68]

Unions could be blamed for driving many companies to build plants overseas. After all, how can co.'s afford to pay the exorbitantly high wages of its workers & keep their prices competitive?


They can't when they have to compete against the slave labor rates foreign employers can pay and by allowing our companies to freely trade it's killed our labor rates in this country. People *****ing about unions are either in a fat company position or are too stupid to realise that without a union it's like going to court without a lawyer. The laws have handcuffed unions making them ineffective anymore. Just realise if it wasn't for unions you'd have very few labor laws and really get bent over the barrell.

[absrbrtek]

A pretty ambiguos statement there. Even raising the minimum wage which is below poverty levels will drive the companies overseas.

Lets look at the overall picture, unions in the north did play a part in moving companies to less expensive non union labor pools down in the south. NAFTA drove the non union companies in the south down into Mexico. China and the other cheap labor countries have started drawing the Mexican companies over there due to their massive labor pools and nearly free wages. Not to mention no kind of benefits, IE: less employee cost.

Lets face it, the CEO's drawing huge bonuses for turning a proffit and driving their stock prices up could care less about where they manufacture the product. Cheap drives the bottom line higher, we see it continualy in our field, cheapest price gets the job. Same goes for large businesses. JMHO

Unions could be blamed for driving many companies to build plants overseas. After all, how can co.'s afford to pay the exorbitantly high wages of its workers & keep their prices competitive?

[PrestonPierce]

I don't get a large pay from the union, I am in a union they don't pay me to be in it. My employer pays my wages just as your does you. The difference is that I have representation. You don't , unless of course you are counting yourself. Why so anti-union Pope? As far manufacturing jobs going overseas well, thats where they are going simple manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past , unless shipping costs are a detriment,

we are talking about service and construction trades, that can hardly be shipped out. Why shouldn't service guys and construction guys form unions ? they would be stupid not to, face it take two equal techs one non union and one union, the union guy will make a lot more over his career than the other guy for no other reason than he joined the union, be stupid not to do it. Not to mention that for the most part the union guy will have a lot more opportunity to learn more and work on more interesting things than the non union guy. I figure if a guy ain't smart enough to know that the union is where he should be then why bother hiring him.

[jayhawker]

The first job I got out of trade school was with a union contractor. I was promised to be put into the apprentice program along with all the benefits.
When the service managers brother in law lost his job at the meatpacking plant, I was let go after they said " the work has slowed down and we have to let you go" but they were going to keep the guy working with the connections even though he had no idea what was going on. This was 25 years ago , I tried several more times to get in but was always met with "who do you know" rather than what do you know. So I took a different direction and made it work. I would have made a good union member but was denied the chance to do so, there is no doubt that union membership has alot of positives both finacial an educational but alot of times for a person off the street the chance is not there. Today I am gratefull to the company that I have worked for the last 25 years, I now have alot more opportunities that I might not have had if I had gone the other direction.

[BrainParasite]

Unions at one time were needed. Now, they are mostly corrupt and protect the lazy. The UAW's outrageous demands have bought the big three automakers to the brink of collapse.

Incredibly high wages, no co-pays on anything, a 10,000 strong "jobs bank" where idled workers show up to a community center and play video games or whatever and collect 95% of their pay! You cannot even put these jobs bankers to work in the community doing volunteer work for the needy because it is not in the contract. Simply insaine.

How can any company compete with this albatross around thier necks?

It is not a wonder that any of the new auto plants built in the U.S. are built in right to work states in the south where you are not forced to join the union. They cannot even organize in plants in the south because people see that a unions are bad news for jobs and job creation in general.

You should have the choice to join a Union or not. It should not be a condition of employment.

[smokin68]

Unions at one time were needed. Now, they are mostly corrupt and protect the lazy. The UAW's outrageous demands have bought the big three automakers to the brink of collapse.


Really? You do realise that the "big three" was the other signature on the union contract don't you? They agreed to the terms.










Incredibly high wages, no co-pays on anything, a 10,000 strong "jobs bank" where idled workers show up to a community center and play video games or whatever and collect 95% of their pay! You cannot even put these jobs bankers to work in the community doing volunteer work for the needy because it is not in the contract. Simply insaine.


You'd rather have unemployment compensation supporting them?Why the hell would you force someone to do volunteer work if they're "laid off"?they should be looking for a job. Now welfare should have volunteer work IMO.



How can any company compete with this albatross around thier necks?


Obviously they did for many years until they failed to progress with their technology, and granted massive buyouts and pardons to failed CEO's(non-union btw)

It is not a wonder that any of the new auto plants built in the U.S. are built in right to work states in the south where you are not forced to join the union. They cannot even organize in plants in the south because people see that a unions are bad news for jobs and job creation in general.


See my previous post of "not smart enough". The south was brainwashed for generations to hate unions,ever since THE UNION kicked their a$$ in the 1800's

You should have the choice to join a Union or not. It should not be a condition of employment.I agree.



The laws in the right to work states make unions powerless, and this isn't right either. Should be on middle ground.

[hvacpope]

States Weighed Down by High-Maintenance Unions

The numbers keep piling up. As states assess the amount of money they owe to (highly unionized) retiring government employees in the forms of pensions and health benefits, more and more taxpayers are learning the price of collective bargaining.


The Associated Press reported on January 30 that Wisconsin's state and local governments may owe as much as $17.4 billion in unfunded obligations to retiring and retired state employees.
In Connecticut, the Hartford Courant reported on February 6, the state teachers' retirement system is $6.9 billion in the hole -- on top of $7.9 billion in unfunded obligations to the state employees' pension system and $21.1 billion owed to fund retirees' health benefits. None of these numbers include the money needed to plug the hole in unionized teachers' retiree health benefits -- since that number hasn't been calculated.
In California, The Bakersfield Californian reported on January 27, the unfunded pension and health benefits obligations (largely negotiated by union leaders) range somewhere between $87 and $147 billion.

Keep your eyes open -- it's only getting worse.

[chillbilly]

I don't get a large pay from the union, I am in a union they don't pay me to be in it. My employer pays my wages just as your does you. The difference is that I have representation. You don't , unless of course you are counting yourself.

Not true. Any worker in this country can be represented in any action against mamagement. How do you figure you are more adequately represented?


Why so anti-union Pope? As far manufacturing jobs going overseas well, thats where they are going simple manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past , unless shipping costs are a detriment,
I'm not speaking for pope, but there is a great deal of evidence that shows that unions have effectively priced the American worker out of the American market.
What incentive does management have to deal with a high priced labor force when they can pay another labor force at a fraction of the cost?
Even if you include training, management still recognizes significant savings when they deal with non-American labor.



we are talking about service and construction trades, that can hardly be shipped out. Why shouldn't service guys and construction guys form unions ? they would be stupid not to, face it take two equal techs one non union and one union, the union guy will make a lot more over his career than the other guy for no other reason than he joined the union, be stupid not to do it. Not to mention that for the most part the union guy will have a lot more opportunity to learn more and work on more interesting things than the non union guy. I figure if a guy ain't smart enough to know that the union is where he should be then why bother hiring him.
I'm assuming you are implying that experts who deal with labor forces are all stupid and those of us who would rather not be a part of a labor organization are too. I worked for unions for 10 years and I never could understand why they were so willing to sacrifice quality for quantity.
Union training is always highly touted. Not sure why.
I never received a high standard of training until I tore up my U.S Steelworkers card and got a job with a company that was free from union B.S.

If management offers a competitve wage and benefits package and treats their employees responsibly what need is there for a union?

[jmac00]

I don't get a large pay from the union, I am in a union they don't pay me to be in it. My employer pays my wages just as your does you. The difference is that I have representation. You don't , unless of course you are counting yourself. Why so anti-union Pope? As far manufacturing jobs going overseas well, thats where they are going simple manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past , unless shipping costs are a detriment,


BWHAHAHAHAHAHA, reeeally, You want to talk to my buddy that is in a Truck drivers union.

he had a pretty bad accident in Buffalo, NY. he ran over a mini-van that tried to pass him on the right. No one was killed, but a few went to the hospital. He was issued several tickets, (btw, before I go any further, understand this guy has not had an accident or a speeding ticket in over 15 years and a little over a million miles on the road)

He called his Union representative, guess what? He CAN NOT USE the unions legal consul because he does not have union medical coverage, He is on his wifes medical coverage, which is better than the union package. So he has to pay his own legal fees..................so much for the mighty union :mad: :mad:

money sucking bunch of scumbags

[fastfred]

For those who it seems, do not think that workers need a process whereby
egregious work conditions and pay can be addressed, please read the article below from that communistic magazine : Business Week :eek: Jan29,2007.
Note next to last paragraph where the conditions the people who make the toys are described. If you believe there is not a need for improved work conditions which can generally be achieved only through negotiation, we have no need for further discussion. If the workers were treated humanely and with consideration there would be no need for labor to organize. Business's that form associations and societies is a DIFFERENT STORY!!




IdeasBooks
Hardly Babes in Toyland

THE REAL TOY STORY Inside the Ruthless Battle for America's Youngest Consumers By Eric Clark; Free Press; 259pp; $26

Each February, thousands of toy manufacturers, retailers, promoters, and dreamers descend on N ew York for the industry's mammoth Toy Fair. Many come lugging new toy samples-some no more than models in Styrofoam and glue-that they hope will make it to retailers' shelves and little kids' hands

by Christmas. It's an inspiring and amusing phenomenon: There's something incredibly cute about grown-ups trying to pitch the next Cabbage Patch Kids or Easy-Bake Oven. But, alas, in Toyland, as in almost every industry, dark forces are at work.
Those dark forces are what British investigative reporter Eric Clark seeks to expose in The Real Toy Story: Inside
. the Ruthless Battle for America's Youngest Consumers, billed by his publisher as a Fast Food Nation for the Beanie Baby biz. Clark describes a world in which giant corporations, struggling to cope with retail consolidation and children's waning interest in traditional toys, slug it out
in a global version of Rock'em Sock'em Robots. Foremost among the toymakers' heinous deeds is the exploitation oflowcost workers in China. On top of that, they employ TV, the Internet, and even slumber
parties seeded with products to turn children into toy-hungry tyrants, destined to nag their parents into purchasing the latest It'll Keep Them Busy for 20 More Minutes Elmo.
My problem is this: Does anyone not know these things?
Isn't all this a bit like telling parents there is no Santa Claus?
Still, Clark's volume provides a colorful overview of the $22 billion toy business and the challenges it faces. For
one thing, kids are getting older-faster, as the industry expression goes. They very quickly jump from dolls and
toy trucks to computers, iPods, and video games. That's why toy sales have been lagging for the past few years.
To make matters worse, discounters Wal-Mart, Target,
and Kmart have come to control the lion's share of the business, while retailers such as Toys 'R' Us and FAO Schwarz are struggling. Pricing pressure brought by these big merchants forces large toymakers to seek out lowercost labor overseas. Meanwhile, small producers find it ever tougher to get distribution.
Clark offers a whirlwind history of toy advertising on TV. That begins with two critical events from 1955: the first
98 I BusinessWeek I January 29, 2007
televised toy commercial, for Hasbro's Mr. Potato Head, and the decision by MatteI's Elliot and Ruth Handler to pony
up their company's entire $500,000 net worth to purchase
a year of advertising on a new ABC show called The Mickey Mouse Club. The emphasis on TV advertising turned out to be only the first step in toymakers' evolution into entertainment companies. In 1984, Hasbro transformed the industry
with Transformers-a line of shape-changing robots that simultaneously appeared in the U.S. as toys, comic books, and an animated TV program. Today, royalties from toy sales provide critical funding for even public TV shows such as Sesame Street. MatteI, meanwhile, releases feature-length
DVDs starring Barbie.
In his final chapter, Clark visits China, or
as he calls it, Santa's Sweatshop. Rather than cite the experiences of real employees, Clark only produces a composite, whom he calls Li Mei. The 18-year-old factory worker in China's Guangdong province suffers from a range of workplace disorders, including open cuts on her hands and rashes from the toxic chemicals she is exposed to at the plant. Just to obtain her job, which pays about $1 a day, she had to bribe a supervisor. Workers like Li Mei sleep, sometimes two to a bed, in company-owned dormitories. They get charged extra for meals, physicals, employee ID cards, and even toilet paper. To meet quotas as high as 4,000 dolls a day, Li Mei must work night shifts, where she gets fined if she dozes off.
Working conditions in China can be reprehensible, and

Clark is to be applauded for reminding the world of that fact. But what's likely to stay with readers are Clark's anecdotes about how many well-known toys and games got their start. Did you know that Lincoln Logs were created by architect Frank
Lloyd Wright's son, who was inspired by his father's design for Tokyo's Imperial Hotel? Or that Play-Doh was developed
first as a cleaning compound for wallpaper? Slinky, it turns
out, was the brainchild of a naval engineer, who was inspired by a large torsion spring that he saw on a ship.
The present-day counterparts of such inventors represent the strong suit that the toy business will rely on to survive the powerful waves of consolidation, globalization, and competition from consumer electronics. And they'll all be out at Toy Fair in February-glue guns in hand.
-By Christopher Palmeri

An expose that's a bit like telling parents tliere IS no Santa Claus

[chillbilly]

Improved work conditions?
Please show me where OSHA declines standardized work conditions based on whether the employer deals with a union or not.
Work conditions are to be a provision of law, regardless of whether unions are present or not.

[fastfred]

Improved work conditions?
Please show me where OSHA declines standardized work conditions based on whether the employer deals with a union or not.
Work conditions are to be a provision of law, regardless of whether unions are present or not.

You honestly do not believe that all work sites are covered or checked by OSHA
do you? Furthermore, the worker often fears retribution if they report work conditions.

[smokin68]

Improved work conditions?
Please show me where OSHA declines standardized work conditions based on whether the employer deals with a union or not.
Work conditions are to be a provision of law, regardless of whether unions are present or not.

Chill, you have to go back to when unions were formed. If it wasn't for them, there would be no Osha , and company's could do as they pleased.

[chillbilly]

=fastfred;1379101]You honestly do not believe that all work sites are covered or checked by OSHA
do you?
No, I do not. But all work sites are subjected to the same guidelines, if checked.





Furthermore, the worker often fears retribution if they report work conditions.
Well, their fears are borne out of ignorance then.
I have reported workplace violations to OSHA both when I was a part of a union and when I was not. And I did it with total anonymity.
What's your point? Are you asserting that workplace safety is more completely ensured when labor unions are present?



This country has a multitude of laws on the books that protect American workers and the protections and provisions are afforded to everyone regardless if there are unions present or not.

[chillbilly]

Chill, you have to go back to when unions were formed. If it wasn't for them, there would be no Osha , and company's could do as they pleased.

I do agree with that. However, the progression from the Industrial Revolution to where we are today has changed the role of labor unions in our country.

[RoBoTeq]

Organized labor is the birthchild of organized crime to fill a very real need for workers while at the same time creating a legal way to do what organized crime was currently doing illegally.

The labor movement was gradually going toward having government regulations do what organized labor forced to happen faster. It was a fantastic oportunity for organized crime bosses to infiltrate the government.

So, on one hand, yes; we do owe organized crime for expediting the betterment of labor conditions. At the same time, we need to acknowledge that organized labor hurts our ability to compete in the world market and is just no longer neccesary.

[hvacpope]

The present-day counterparts of such inventors represent the strong suit that the toy business will rely on to survive the powerful waves of consolidation, globalization, and competition from consumer electronics. And they'll all be out at Toy Fair in February-glue guns in hand.
-By Christopher Palmeri

An expose that's a bit like telling parents tliere IS no Santa Claus[/QUOTE]



Fred,

The article failed to mention how labors unions drove some of the biggest toy makers like Fisher Price and Mattel out of the US to China and Mexico, I hired an ex-fisher price mechanic, he used to (got fired) tell us everyday how good he had it, they close the plants in western NY and let them all go with an awesome severance package part of the union buyout, he came in with the typical “I deserve it all” attitude and soon we showed him the way out.

[fastfred]

Did you read the paragraph describing the work/living conditions? What does OSHA have to do with the (composite) girl being required to buy her toilet paper? Required to buy employee ID card? Company dormitories two in a bed?
Surely you cannot logically compare that situation to any work place you have worked. If you had any hesitation regarding a workplace complaint,you certainly cannot equate yourself to a worker as described in the article.
Companies will always chase lower wages for the worker. in this country they went south. The south remained largely unorganized and guess what industry found cheaper labor markets overseas,in spite of the fact that the workers were non-union. So, it is not a question of union/nonunion whoever will work for the lowest wage gets the job.
We will get the jobs back when we wages here are competitive with wages in third world countries.
Be careful what you wish for, if there were no organized workers in this country, management would have no reason to pay competitive wages. And everyone will be working more and for a lot less.
The primary reason management resents a better paid worker is the worker raises his expectations and educational level and thus has the opportunity to move into better jobs (more mobility) more choices, and the "mill" loses control over the workers.
When workers were living in company housing,shopping in company stores,using company issued money,paying whatever the company decided,
They generally lived in perpetual debt to the Company.
I know you are aware of a lot of this.
This discussion comes up and the same arguments are posted and Robo always plays the criminal card. I remind him that he never mentions corporate crime and criminal activity by management, he say's that is a "red herring"
lol.
How about, we try to elevate ourselves rather than attempt to drag others down?


Why is it that obscene management compensation packages are seldom mentioned in these discussions but the slob at the bottom is greedy and criminal if he organizes with other workers for their betterment?
Companies join with other companies is associations for their benefit,when workers join together for their benefit, how is that any different?









The present-day counterparts of such inventors represent the strong suit that the toy business will rely on to survive the powerful waves of consolidation, globalization, and competition from consumer electronics. And they'll all be out at Toy Fair in February-glue guns in hand.
-By Christopher Palmeri

An expose that's a bit like telling parents tliere IS no Santa Claus



Fred,

The article failed to mention how labors unions drove some of the biggest toy makers like Fisher Price and Mattel out of the US to China and Mexico, I hired an ex-fisher price mechanic, he used to (got fired) tell us everyday how good he had it, they close the plants in western NY and let them all go with an awesome severance package part of the union buyout, he came in with the typical “I deserve it all” attitude and soon we showed him the way out.[/QUOTE]

[fastfred]

double post

[hvacpope]

Fred,

your rant sounds like it came out of Marx & Engels handbooks.
I live up in NY a mostly unionized state compared it to Georgia a non union state our job market is small and the pay is lower, add the cost of living and taxes on top, well you do the math.

[jmac00]

here ya go kids, knockyourselves out:

http://www.unionfacts.org/

Btw, I would love to see anyone of you *pro-union* kids run right over to China and try and start a labor movement...........good luck with that :p

what? no takers? :p :D :rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

This discussion comes up and the same arguments are posted and Robo always plays the criminal card. I remind him that he never mentions corporate crime and criminal activity by management, he say's that is a "red herring"
lol.


Ummmm, when the discussion is about the wrong doings of unions, it "IS" a red herring to try to divert the attention away from union wrong doing by bringing up wrongs that other entities do. THAT'S WHAT A RED HERRING ARGUMENT IS!

Does anything that any other entity is doing wrong in any way make the criminal aspects of unions right? Just in case you really are that stupid; the answer is no.

[smokin68]

here ya go kids, knockyourselves out:

http://www.unionfacts.org/

Btw, I would love to see anyone of you *pro-union* kids run right over to China and try and start a labor movement...........good luck with that :p

what? no takers? :p :D :rolleyes:


Here's China for you....
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/13/corporations_china_and_unions

[jmac00]

Here's China for you....
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/13/corporations_china_and_unions


I noticed it's the Chinese government that is ALLOWING a change to the labor laws. I suspect that Chinese nationals that go abroad are coming home and telling anyone that will listen that a "open market" and democratic work force, WORKS. It will be a decade or more before China allows any equity in pay, compared to US pay scale.

On top of that, China HAS AN EGO. The Olympics will be in China, they do not want to look like the communist country that they are, to the world. The Government wants the world to see a "progressive" country.


On top of that, you can claim anything you want in a chat room or on a forum, prove to me the American corp are fighting this "tooth and nail". For some reason I find that HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Even if the labor rate goes up in China, EVERYONE is still making money ( more so than if the US corp, had stayed here anyway)

On the other hand, we are trying to compare apples to Oranges, when comparing the US unions to any other countries labor movement.

[smokin68]

I noticed it's the Chinese government that is ALLOWING a change to the labor laws. I suspect that Chinese nationals that go abroad are coming home and telling anyone that will listen that a "open market" and democratic work force, WORKS. It will be a decade or more before China allows any equity in pay, compared to US pay scale.

On top of that, China HAS AN EGO. The Olympics will be in China, they do not want to look like the communist country that they are, to the world. The Government wants the world to see a "progressive" country.


On top of that, you can claim anything you want in a chat room or on a forum, prove to me the American corp are fighting this "tooth and nail". For some reason I find that HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Even if the labor rate goes up in China, EVERYONE is still making money ( more so than if the US corp, had stayed here anyway)

On the other hand, we are trying to compare apples to Oranges, when comparing the US unions to any other countries labor movement.


Re-read your own post....first you doubt the US corps would fight this, second no matter what,money is being made,so US corps are better off over there according to your reasoning. Corporate greed....common workers supporting fat-a$$es taking up desk space. God formid the "common" worker benefit any from their efforts. The American corporate mindset....pitiful.

[jmac00]

Re-read your own post....first you doubt the US corps would fight this, second no matter what,money is being made,so US corps are better off over there according to your reasoning. Corporate greed....common workers supporting fat-a$$es taking up desk space. God formid the "common" worker benefit any from their efforts. The American corporate mindset....pitiful.

welcome to modern industry :confused: :confused: :confused: the American corporate mindset is the same as every corporation on the planet, spend as little money as possible, bring in as much as possible??? what part of that is to complicated?

Industry will go were they can build or make there products the cheapest. If unions continue to demand packages that the corporations can't pay for, unions will drive themselves out of business

It is simple Darwinism, Survival of the fittest. If the labor rates in China get to high, Corporations will find another place to go. However, with 6 BILLION POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS, China is the single biggest emerging market, for everything.

we can argue about this till the cows come home, nothing is going to change.
although I would suggest we ALL learn Mandarin Chinese, because that is going to be the language of business in the next 10 years

[fastfred]

Ummmm, when the discussion is about the wrong doings of unions, it "IS" a red herring to try to divert the attention away from union wrong doing by bringing up wrongs that other entities do. THAT'S WHAT A RED HERRING ARGUMENT IS!

Does anything that any other entity is doing wrong in any way make the criminal aspects of unions right? Just in case you really are that stupid; the answer is no.

What happened to the kinder gentler ROBO? That was rather harsh.

No, I am not that stupid. However, thanks for answering your own question. On the other hand perhaps you are that stupid, since you missed the point that you are insensitive to criminal activities and employee abuse by management.

[RoBoTeq]

What happened to the kinder gentler ROBO? That was rather harsh.

No, I am not that stupid. However, thanks for answering your own question. On the other hand perhaps you are that stupid, since you missed the point that you are insensitive to criminal activities and employee abuse by management.

As in most of your posts, I have no clue as to what you are referring to with a kinder/gentler RoBo. I simply tell it as I see it.

I did not miss your "red herring" point at all; it just has no relevance to the wrongs that are being done by unions.