View Full Version : c.s.i.-mr or asc in stand alone.
02-02-2007, 11:32 PM
in csi can you program an mr or asc to be stand alone without an m-stat or i-stat?
02-03-2007, 08:36 PM
Yes, But then you need a MCI interface and software to temporarily set up the asc or mr for stand alone operation. Csi's Ascs can be setup via a mstat or istat out of the box for some stand alone operations. Mr's need a MCI for point and ddc module creation and istat setup. Mr's have Limited fuctions available via mstat or istat (point display and some control).
I hope that helps.
02-04-2007, 12:06 AM
i understand what you are saying when one is to program thru an LIU, but how would i address it and what sav file would i use?
02-04-2007, 02:26 AM
Create a sav file for which ever mci you have ready access to that you could use and take temporarilly to jobs name that controller say.. small jobs or stand alone and address this mci and document it. The first Mr or asc will be address 1 then 2 etc.. Keep a record of the mr addresses in a book for this small jobs controller. Record along with the addresses, mcu type, I/O setups, points list, ddc modules and or asc parameters configuration. Then program and start up controller being carefull only to use the mr functions for programing the points as point extensions reside only in the MCI.
02-04-2007, 11:43 AM
I have used the MR-VAV-AX-C for VAV Box applications as stand-alone. As far as I know any of the TAC (CSI) Micro Regulator & Application Specific Controllers are designed for stand-alone use in addition to conventional network interface. The Resident I/O Points are configured at the factory on this type of controller.
As Foggy said depending on exactly what you are trying to do there are different ways to configure the controllers. The MR’s will require a interface initially. If you use a 7793 MCI just be sure if it is a permanent one that you rename your original .sav file (old.DCUxxxx.sav), or setup a new I/O Configuration Profile and set the save directory to a different one in I/NET so you do not mix up your save file’s. It would be better to use a spare MCI or I/SITE Controller if you need to do this frequently.
I am not sure if you are asking a general question or if you had a specific application in mind. For the VAV Box jobs we did we needed to give the ASC Controller a signal to go Occ/Unocc. I believe we used input point 01 which is a AI/DI. You can give a dry contact to it so it knows when to transition from Occ/Unnoc, since it will not be on a network and get time of day from a MCI like they usually would.
If you read the TCON Manuals for the MR-VAV, MR-AHU & MR-HP ASC”s I believe they describe some stand-alone applications. I also have an old Tech Tip on the MR-VAV for doing air balancing in a stand-alone configuration.
Like Foggy said make sure you document the configuration. In I/NET 2000 or I/NET Seven from a Operator Workstation or Laptop you can go Edit > Host Computer > Network Functions and you can print the database. You first save the site/link in the Netcon and then you can print. If your PC / Laptop does not have a printer you can print to Adobe and make a .PDF of that .sav file. This will save you from manual writing down all the I/O Point, Point Extensions, DDC Modules etc..
02-04-2007, 04:35 PM
so if i hooked up an mr/asc to an existing mri then create a new controller with a save file on the sublan i could take it off and it would still work stand-alone? am i reading you right? also what happens when you loose power to the stand alone? i know the logic gets stored in novram but what happens to the time schedule?
02-04-2007, 04:57 PM
Yes to your 1st question. But as I stated unless the equipment your controlling needs to run 24x7 you will need to use a spare DI to index the stand alone controller to Occ/Unnoc. If you are using an ISTAT you can have a override button as well.
As far as the 2nd question I am not a 100% sure. We install hundreds if MR's & ASC's a year, but they are rarely stand alone. The database resides in the LAN Interface Unit whether it is a 7793 MCI or 7798B, C or I/Site Controller. Each of those interface controllers have a NiCad backup battery and they hold 96KB of Ram typically. If your stand alone controller loses power or has it interrupted I am not sure what will happen, but I believe it would normally look to synchronize with the MCI or I/Site. Maybe Foggy knows exactly. You could try one and test it. Again most of our work is almost always on a LAN or networked, so I am not real experienced with stand alone applications. It might revert back to its factory or "canned" database on a power loss.
Do you have any of the MR or ASC TCON manuals? If you need them let me know. I have them electronically.
One other thing to think about. If it is a VAV application, the controller will not know if the associated unit (AHU/RTU) is in morning warm-up or using central plant heat. There are some work arounds but it is not as easy because since it is stand alone there are no global or indirect points.
If it is a AHU or Heat Pump application you might need a hardwired OSA Temp sensor or possibly a combo Temp & %RH depending on what you are trying to control. If the unit has an economizer it will not be able to reference dry bulb or enthalpy. Normally in a job with a Controller LAN and Sub-LAN we use global or indirect points for things like OSA Temp, OSA %RH and OSA Enthalpy.
02-04-2007, 05:19 PM
One thing I forgot. Depending on how you do this you will need to setup the MCI or I/Site like you normally would if it was on a LAN. Things like conversion coefficients, lookup tables etc.. You can copy .sav files. By that I mean you can take a save file do a station restore to the MCI or I/Site that you will be using for stand alone programming and just delete or modify the existing database instead of starting from scratch. Just be sure the physical address of the MCI pr I/Site matches the save file you want to use. If they are different just rename the DCUxxxx.sav file to match the address of your interface controller. I hope that makes sense,
02-04-2007, 08:40 PM
Twisted pairs advice is exellent !
Setting up a Mr or Asc controller stand alone requires a good understanding of its internal functions. Anything like event sequences or time schedules (which are or require point extensions) reside in the MCI which will have no control once the mr or asc is disconnected from it.
To answer Twisted pairs question the MR setup and Asc parameters are put into flash memory in the respective MCU so they will restore to the settings you have applied in the set up after power interuption.
Note: There are ats settings in the mr funtions editor for mrs but it only works when setup on a permanent sublan with a MCI. Otherwise i believe the mrs time reverts to 00:00 (Midnight). Use Twisted pairs advice use a DI input to perform time scheduling from another device or time clock when stand alone.
My advice is to get the tcons manuals and read up, then mess around with a MR or ASC on your work bench and test its operation power it on and off a few times and check it out. I have been able to use stand alone mrs with success for some operations that normally would have required alot of periferal devices on a hard wired job.
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