Infinity vs Any 2-Stage Thermostat

[theshadow]

I've only just discovered that my Infinity's two-stage burner requires a two-stage thermostat, but a conventional thermostat was installed in this new home. The burner was one of the reasons I selected Infinity. I've read earlier posts in which many professionals backed the Infinity thermostat. However, when I check the Carrier site, many bells & whistles are listed but facilitating the two-stage burner isn't even mentioned!

I'm looking for optimum utilization of the variable speed blower and two stage burner. Is the Infinity control still best at doing that compared to a (less expensive) Honeywell two-stage thermostat or others brands? Thanks.

Jed in Wisconsin, where it's +3 F and heading dowwwwwn.

[hvaclogic]

The Infinity furnace will manage the second stage heat using plotted algorythyms determined by the length of the heat call, demand of the heat call and will it reach and or maintain set point in the low heat stage if not it will then stage up to second stage heat. The results of all these calculations will determine if the next heat call will start out as low heat or high heat. This happens with every call for heat. So yes you can still have first and second stage operation with a single stage thermostat.
But a two stage stat will control it even more efficeintly.

[dash]

Infinity control is what I'd want to manage the two stage heat ,along with everything else it can do.

Better comfort IMHO,with Infinity,it maintains temps closer to the set point then two stage stat.

[aircooled53]

I've only just discovered that my Infinity's two-stage burner requires a two-stage thermostat, but a conventional thermostat was installed in this new home. The burner was one of the reasons I selected Infinity. I've read earlier posts in which many professionals backed the Infinity thermostat. However, when I check the Carrier site, many bells & whistles are listed but facilitating the two-stage burner isn't even mentioned!

I'm looking for optimum utilization of the variable speed blower and two stage burner. Is the Infinity control still best at doing that compared to a (less expensive) Honeywell two-stage thermostat or others brands? Thanks.

Jed in Wisconsin, where it's +3 F and heading dowwwwwn.


Need to check to see if that furnace was manufactured to use the Infinity controller or was it produced before.
I like the controller for it's ability to sense cycles of heat and adjust, more even temperature this way .

I would also recommend Honeywell Pro 8000. 8621

[theshadow]

Aircooled, I don't have the S/N or model # handy, but it was installed only last summer and based on what the contractor said, the furnace would be compatible with the controller.

[plain spoken]

Your furnace should be compatible with the INfinity control. The Infinity control will control the 2 stages.

[heatpumpguru]

Infinty rules!!!

[jlk_250]

My Infinity furnace was originally installed with a cheap single stage thermostat. The furnace worked fine with it and provided a lot more comfort than our ancient single stage furnace. The controller board on the Infinity has the smarts to operate with single stage thermostats.

Now I have an Infinity control on it and that works fine too, plus I like all its added features. In theory it can do a better job of regulating the temperature but the improvement is subtle enough that I can't really tell. I'm very happy with the Infinity control but wouldn't try to sell it on the basis of it doing a better job controlling temperature alone.

For me, I very much like the outside air temp and humidity display right on the unit, the automatic control of humidity level based on outdoor air temp, the diagnostic capability, and how nice the setback/vacation modes are configured. And it does a great job of holding to the setpoint!

Jon

[theshadow]

Well, this is strange. The thermostat was malfunctioning as it was (showing temperatures all over the map), so the contractor sent someone to change it out. Instead of the Infinity, they installed the Honeywell Pro TH4110D, which is another single-stage thermostat.

They told my wife (1) it was less expensive than the Infinity; (2) which I don't need because I don't have a two-stage AC (the AC is a Comfort series). I know the Honeywell is less expensive, but (rhetorical question) why wouldn't they have used the 2-stage version (TH4210D) to match the two-stage Infinity furnace?

[grumpy20716]

they used what was on thier truck.

[mayguy]

I'd ask them to put in a two stage t-stat... if you got the wires for it in the wall.

[grumpy20716]

Infinity control only needs 4 wires

[grumpy20716]

infinity control can still be used with 1 stage cool

[theshadow]

4 wires.

[grumpy20716]

Green-data Yellow-data White-24vac com Red-24vac hot

[jlk_250]

The Infinity control is very expensive and when I shopped for a new furnace none of the vendors even wanted to quote it. Several (all?) of the Bryant/Carrier guys said their own homes have complete Infinity systems but they don't recommend the control because it's expensive and not necessary. Seems odd but that's what happened with me.

BTW, I had a single stage Performance series AC installed at the same time as the Infinity furnace. It works fine with either kind of thermostat in question. The Infinity control is impressive.

Jon

[grumpy20716]

Thats crap Infinity system with Infinity control!!

[theshadow]

I'm having the same experience as JLK_250 as far as Carrier dealers characterizing the Infinity control as overpriced and not worth it. No wonder us civilians get confused.

[seadragon]

Let me get this straight...

Carrier dealer are recommending NOT to get the Infinity Control for an Infinity system???? What??? :confused:

Anyone who recommends against the Infinity Control must be out to lunch. It is THE BEST control for an Infinity furnace/AC/Ventilator etc. Yes, its more expensive than a "regular" thermostat. But thats because its not a regular thermostat.

I'll bet the folks at Carrier would love to know their dealers are steering customers clear of the control. Wow.

Remember, the Infinity system is a SYSTEM. Its not just any one component. The control is an integral part of that system. Why would one spend the big money on the furnace and cheap out on the control? I just don't get it.

[dash]

Let me get this straight...

Carrier dealer are recommending NOT to get the Infinity Control for an Infinity system???? What??? :confused:

Anyone who recommends against the Infinity Control must be out to lunch. It is THE BEST control for an Infinity furnace/AC/Ventilator etc. Yes, its more expensive than a "regular" thermostat. But thats because its not a regular thermostat.

I'll bet the folks at Carrier would love to know their dealers are steering customers clear of the control. Wow.

Remember, the Infinity system is a SYSTEM. Its not just any one component. The control is an integral part of that system. Why would one spend the big money on the furnace and cheap out on the control? I just don't get it.



Exactly .

And I think Carrier knows some dealers are a litle slow on the uptake,Willis Haviland hough, would be rolling over if he knew!lol

[theshadow]

Contractor was here to replace a defective inductor motor in the Infinity furnace. I mentioned the single-stage thermostat and asked if I shouldn't have a dual-stage thermostat (Honeywell, Infinity or otherwise) to match the furnace. He said that the Infinity circuitry would adjust accordingly, and the blower and burners would operate high/low as needed. What, then, is the purpose of a dual-stage thermostat?

[dash]

Contractor was here to replace a defective inductor motor in the Infinity furnace. I mentioned the single-stage thermostat and asked if I shouldn't have a dual-stage thermostat (Honeywell, Infinity or otherwise) to match the furnace. He said that the Infinity circuitry would adjust accordingly, and the blower and burners would operate high/low as needed. What, then, is the purpose of a dual-stage thermostat?



IMHO. Two stage stat is for equipment that doesn't have the internal circuitry that he mentioned.

With a two stage,you set it at say72°,when it comes on in low it may go to 70° before it shifts to high stage.What you now have may do a little better at keeping a more stable temperature.

Infinty Control is better then either of these.

[aircooled53]

The Infinity controller will work on your system ,but if the outdoor unit does not have the board to pull the (4) wire connector in you would need to use the terminal hook up.

As for the Infinity controller to be used for (2) stage heating it would work just fine, as when you enter the model# of furnace> model # of condenser and it will run the program for that system. If set-up properly.

I would try and find another Carrier dealer in your area and ask him about installation of the controller.;)

[seadragon]

Contractor was here to replace a defective inductor motor in the Infinity furnace. I mentioned the single-stage thermostat and asked if I shouldn't have a dual-stage thermostat (Honeywell, Infinity or otherwise) to match the furnace. He said that the Infinity circuitry would adjust accordingly, and the blower and burners would operate high/low as needed. What, then, is the purpose of a dual-stage thermostat?

This contractor does NOT know what he is talking about. The Infinity control is the absolute best control for an Infinity furnace. Period. I just can't believe this guy doesn't want you to have an Infinity control to go with your top of the line furnace! You've obviously expressed interest in it, but he's not taking the hint.

The furnace will indeed work with a single stage stat, but you won't be getting the extra benefits of a 2 stage stat. The furnace circuit uses a simple timer to control staging. It will only ever run for 16 mins on low stage before going to high stage. The furnace circuit has NO WAY of knowing how fast the temperature is rising in the house. That's why it just uses a simple timer system to activate the 2nd stage.

With a 2 stage stat (Infinity control), the furnace will stay on low stage for much longer and ONLY go to high stage if the thermostat decides the temp is not coming up fast enough. The end result is that the furnace runs on low stage almost all the time and you won't even hear it. The other thing a 2 stage stat will do is allow the furnace to go from low to high and BACK to low again. A single stage stage with the furnace circuit in control will only ever go from low to high then OFF.

I had a single stage stat on my Infinity furnace before I got the Infinity control and I can honestly say that the difference between them is night and day. My furnace almost always runs on low stage now and is really quiet, just as the brochures advertise. With the Infinity control, I now get nice loooong runtimes in low. Sometime it will run on low for an hour then turn off. Much better for the equipment and much better for the homeowner since it is so quiet. It's as if the house is just magically warm.

Do yourself a big favor and INSIST on the Infinity control. Seriously, don't accept anything less. Go to a different contractor if needed, but make sure you end up with that control.

Unfortunately, there are contractors out there that don't know much about this system (including mine). I was told the furnace was "smarter" than any thermostat. Wrong wrong wrong. The furnace is actually dumb in comparison.

Sorry if I seem a little fired up over this topic, but I just hate to see someone invested in the Infinity system and not seeing the full benefit of it. That was me a few years ago.

[theshadow]

Not just one, but TWO Carrier dealers have told me "not to bother" with the Infinity control. Then what happened today really confused me.

It's pretty clear from all of the responses to this thread that the Infinity control is worth it. One more question please? Does only a Carrier dealer have the equipment, diagnostic gear, training, etc., to install and program the Infinity control, or can any reputable contractor do this? I have a contractor in mind, but he doesn't handle Carrier. With all this screwing around, I'd like to get this done smooothly.

[aircooled53]

It would be a good idea to have Carrier dealer to install Infinity controller as they need to be set-up properly and warranty would be in effect.

Call Carrier and ask them to refer you to a dealer that is prefered Carrier dealer and would be able to install Infinity Controller.:cool:

[theshadow]

Thanks, Aircooled. I did find a Carrier dealer from another community, and they're coming over next week. No muss no fuss. Also $75 less than what the locals wanted to charge... if they would have done it. Screw 'em.

[jeffw_00]

They're not difficult to set up (I had to teach the tech who installed my furnace - i had read the frickin manual and he hadn't). It was 2-3x the cost of a hi-end smart stat but well worth it. Probably the biggest downside of putting in an infinity stat is that you can then find out that your static pressure is too high. Ignorance is bliss 8-}
/j

[theshadow]

The Infinity control is in and working well. The difference in performance is noticeable. By the way, just as someone here predicted, the control reported high static pressure.

One thing I don't understand is the humidity control. Right now, the sensor reads the outdoor temp at 27 degrees (which is dead-on), and the control chose 45% as the target RH. Even according to Carrier's recommendation, the indoor target should be between 35 & 40. So, I'm keeping the humidity control on "manual".

The Shadow,
waiting for the blizzard this PM.

[jrbenny]

The Infinity control is in and working well. The difference in performance is noticeable. By the way, just as someone here predicted, the control reported high static pressure.

One thing I don't understand is the humidity control. Right now, the sensor reads the outdoor temp at 27 degrees (which is dead-on), and the control chose 45% as the target RH. Even according to Carrier's recommendation, the indoor target should be between 35 & 40. So, I'm keeping the humidity control on "manual".

The Shadow,
waiting for the blizzard this PM.
When in 'auto' mode for heating humidity, how many squares were highlighted?

[theshadow]

Six. I assumed I couldn't/shouldn't drop it if in "auto" mode. Wrong?

[jrbenny]

Curve (square) six at 27*F = 45% control point. See page 14. Curves start on the right with 1 square.

[theshadow]

Thanks! That download is a big help. The chart I referred to was for the humidifier itself; what you sent is more specific.

[Airmechanical]

infinity;

better invention than sliced bread,

only thing i dont like about it is, ohh forget it!



.

[jrbenny]

Thanks! That download is a big help. The chart I referred to was for the humidifier itself; what you sent is more specific.
If you get sweat on the windows, use less squares. If it's too dry, use more squares.

[keepitsimplestupid]

As said the Infinity control requires only four wires to the furnace. A typical two stage stat requires a lot more.

The outdoor unit may use 4 wires (ABCD bus) or 2 wires (single speed). Difficulties arise and an extra expense if the outdoor unit is two speed, but not ABCD bus.

The control is a cinch to set up. The control either finds the model of the connected items directly or is told manually the BTU rating of the outdoor units it can't find.

An outdoor temperature sensor improves AC performance. It's run from the furnace. I found a perfect place to mount it. Under the NID of the telephone system on the premise wiring side.