McCain can win

[PrestonPierce]

As a democrat I hate to say it but, if the best that the dems can do is Hillary or Obama or possibly both , then I will be voting for McCAin or just not voting at all. If the Dem leadership is so stupid to think that either a woman or a black man stands any chance of winning a national election then it is time to disassociate myself with such ignorant people and become an independent, an independent that will be right leaning if either one of these two get the nomination.My gut feeling is that Kerry will run again despite his latest statements saying he won't. He has set himself up well to reenter the race if the war contiues to escalate. or if it doesn't. He has a large bankroll left over from the last one and I believe he will spend this year letting these others fight it out in public so he can then reenter and get a lot free publicity and democratic support because by the end of this year the other candidates will have beat each other to death and he will be there to pick up the pieces and grab the nomination with a fresh start, there is no way this guy has quit they will be begging him to run against McCain in 08' Just ,my opinion.

[chillbilly]

This country's electorate is being hornswaggled into choosing sides.
The beneficiaries are the people in office and those who are elected, who go on, business as usual, without being held accountable for the legislation, executive orders and judgements they hand down.

That noted, I beleieve John McCain should have been nominated instead of GWB in 2000. He is certainly an extremely attractive candidate in 08'.
He's more humble, more articulate, (although that's not saying alot) more capable, and better at initiating bipartisanship than Bush is/was.

Our country could do a hell of a lot worse than John McCain.

[PrestonPierce]

I agree ,although I am a democrat, I have voted republican I voted for Reagan because of Carter's weak stand on Iran, and I voted for Bush 41 in 88, at that time I just felt he was the most qualified candidate possibly in our history, he had quite a resume and the guy he was running against had nothing to compare to him, so I won't have a problem voting for McCAin if it comes down to it, he is a republican but is really a moderate in my eyes.I believe he can win,,, if the dems keep thinking they have the 08 election locked up and that they can send just anyone up there and claim victory they are sadly mistaken, Although I am not saying I would not consider voting for Hillary or Obama, I am saying it is a losing cause and would show piss poor judgement on the party's part by backing them. It just isn't going to happen , we are still a way aways from a non white man sitting as president, especially during a war,

[James 3528]

It is too early to get excited about anyone. Just sit back and watch the press look like idiots.

[PrestonPierce]

I would think for sure that McCain is the guy for the republicans, he's a respectable guy. And seems like the guy to get a big chunk of the moderate votes from both paties. It will be hard for the press to trash him, all they have on the guy is the Keating thing which is a dead horse and pales to what is acceptable these days. its a minor blemish, the dems have one weapon and thats Bill Clinton, he is there best and brightest, hell he is perhaps the smartest politician in our history at manipulatiing the public anyway no one has ever doene that any better. Bottom line is he can swing a lot of votes, if anyone can put Hillary in office he would be the guy. I just don't think it can be done though, yeah it might be fine for her in New Hampshire but Iowa will end her hopes I would think. besides it's Bush, Clinton, Bush Clinton again ? That would be 32 years of either a Bush or a Clinton on a winning presidebtial ticket.I would bet the vote goes to new blood, not another Bush or another Clinton.

[scrogdog]

If the Dem leadership is so stupid to think that either a woman or a black man stands any chance of winning a national election then it is time to disassociate myself with such ignorant people

Excuse me? Do you realize what you just said?

Hey, I'm a lifelong and card-carrying conservative libertarian sort. I have no love for Hillary or Obama. However, whether they are poor candidates or not has nothing to do with race or gender.

Obama has no experience and Hillary is a socialist. THOSE are reasons. :)

[bootlen]

My gut feeling is that Kerry will run again despite his latest statements saying he won't. He has set himself up well to reenter the race if the war contiues to escalate. or if it doesn't. He has a large bankroll left over from the last one and I believe he will spend this year letting these others fight it out in public so he can then reenter and get a lot free publicity and democratic support because by the end of this year the other candidates will have beat each other to death and he will be there to pick up the pieces and grab the nomination with a fresh start,

Kinda reminds me of his service in VN.

[k-fridge]

Excuse me? Do you realize what you just said?

Hey, I'm a lifelong and card-carrying conservative libertarian sort. I have no love for Hillary or Obama. However, whether they are poor candidates or not has nothing to do with race or gender.

Obama has no experience and Hillary is a socialist. THOSE are reasons. :)
I agree. I think the country could easily elect a woman, but not one as far to the left and as polarizing as Hillary. A black would find a tougher time, but I think it could happen. Only a conservative black would stand a chance right now, a liberal black would never get the support of white suburbia. I think Condi would have a real shot at winning, she'd make an excellent VP candidate. Colin Powell would have been a formidable candidate. Several years back I supported Alan Keys for prez.

[k-fridge]

Kerry won't run again, but Al Gore will and he may well get the nom.

[oloenneker]

Kerry won't run again, but Al Gore will and he may well get the nom.


Forget Kerry...


But Gore.. there is a chance...


How is that for cannon fodder for you conservilicans....

[The Doctor]

I bet this country is ready to vote for whichever candidate's machinery grinds the others out of the way--black, female. I wouldn't hesitate for a vote for a qualified man as long as he doesn't have a history of
enshrining the government tit ....but that candidate is rather elusive, wouldn't you say?
I don't think I could vote for a woman to lead this country--hillary or condi, or whoever.
I'd have to flip a coin, b/c I think Giuliani will edge out McCain, and I'd really have to hold my nose for that one....

[James 3528]

Forget Kerry...


But Gore.. there is a chance...


How is that for cannon fodder for you conservilicans....

Thaw your head out.

[bornriding]

Hillary will NOT get the democratic nomination....but, she will be the vice-presidential candidate on whoevers ticket gets the nomination.
Then, somehow, during the 4 year term, the president will be 'disabled', and Hillary WILL BECOME the first woman president...


And then, I hope, Alabama will suceed ( ? ) from the union.....( & the south shall rise again )

Richard

[k-fridge]

Forget Kerry...


But Gore.. there is a chance...


How is that for cannon fodder for you conservilicans....
Gore? He won't win, but he may well get the nomination.

[James 3528]

Hillary will NOT get the democratic nomination....but, she will be the vice-presidential candidate on whoevers ticket gets the nomination.
Then, somehow, during the 4 year term, the president will be 'disabled', and Hillary WILL BECOME the first woman president...


And then, I hope, Alabama will suceed ( ? ) from the union.....( & the south shall rise again )

Richard

No one would want to potentially endure Hillary as their Vice President. Remember Fort Marcy Park?

[acmanko]

I believe the next President will be the ex Governor of New Mexico.

[glennac]

It looks bad all the way around. There is no Regan out there to get this country back on track. McCain is a liberal in sheep’s clothing. He’s for AA and a whole list of other socialist causes. Pat Buchannan can’t get the nomination but he could straighten it out. The Dems have gone way out to the “anti American” side by calling to pull our troops out so we can surrender the planet to the radical Islamist. If they have their way you might as well start teaching the Koran in public schools so they won’t have their heads chopped off. Don’t mean to sound down but it’s looking grim.

[coordinatesales]

I'd have to flip a coin, b/c I think Giuliani will edge out McCain, and I'd really have to hold my nose for that one....

I think Giuliani's stance on social issues will hurt him in the republican party. McCain has less baggage and I think he'll get the nod. For a long time I supported a 'mixed' government with neither party in charge of both congress and the presidency. Then it went into gridlock and I thought that perhaps a rep controlled government can get some things that I support done. They have done that but they went hog wild at the money trough so I'm back to thinking a mixed government is better. It provides more in the way of balance. What I'd really like to see is a viable 3rd party. I think that would force parties to work with each other more.

[bootlen]

I agree, Glen. McCain is a lib with certain conserv/mod leanings. But he is NO conservative. Heck, W ain't even conservative. He's more of a Kennedy democrat. What we need is another Reagan. Nobody on the horizon quite like that.

[chillbilly]

It's easy to categorize McCain as a "liberal/moderate leaner", whatever in the hell that means. If it means he has the ability to bring these polarized parties together with some degree of success, I'm all for it and I say, God bless him for having enough courage to put the country ahead of a friggin campaign.
Guliani? Rudy Guliani is not nearly as capable as McCain and there's not a single candidate currently, or in the future, who has a better understanding of foreign policy and military matters.
Read his questioning of all those who have testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
He's clearly the most capable interviewer and his politics have a purpose.

Look at the man's voting record on all the issues before you go arbitrarily deciding what he "is" or "isn't".
http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

[chillbilly]

It's also fairly reasonable to assume that if McCain had gotten the nomination ahead of Bush in 2000, this country would be in much better shape than we find ourselves now.

[PrestonPierce]

Hillary will NOT get the democratic nomination....but, she will be the vice-presidential candidate on whoevers ticket gets the nomination.
Then, somehow, during the 4 year term, the president will be 'disabled', and Hillary WILL BECOME the first woman president...


And then, I hope, Alabama will suceed ( ? ) from the union.....( & the south shall rise again )

Richard



Hillary will not accept a VP ticket, she has to run for president or nothing, don't you get it , accepting the VP is losing, her husband was already president.




Excuse me? Do you realize what you just said?

Hey, I'm a lifelong and card-carrying conservative libertarian sort. I have no love for Hillary or Obama. However, whether they are poor candidates or not has nothing to do with race or gender.

Obama has no experience and Hillary is a socialist. THOSE are reasons. :)

Those are actually not racist or chauvinistic statements, just an observation of reality, neither one can win an election so why throw your support with them and risk losing an election, looks like its Biden, Edwards,Gore, or possibly Kerry if he gets back in,,, got to tell ya as a concerned democrat , they look pretty weak compared to McCain. My question would be is who is McCains running mate going to be ? Is it Voinivich, Patacki ? Voinivich could swing
Ohio but Patacki can't swing New York,


I think the bottom line is that there will be a lot undecided middle of the road voters this time around, and the candidate who can get the biggest chunk of those votes will be the easy winner, right now it looks like McCain is in the best position to win that sector. I think the republicans would be giving away that edge if they don't run McCain, Guliani is a nice guy but what has he really accomplished he was mayor of a large city and not a whole lot else, just don't see it happening for him.

[wen-sar]

Mccain is a piece of cr#p..

Hillary is a loser..

Al Gore was right about pretty much every damn thing..

:D

[geerair]

The more I hear of McCain the more I am convinced that he is little more than your usual pandering political hack without an ounce of conviction that is not motivated by numbers and the audience he is currently addressing.


That being said, I will vote for McCain if he receives the Repub. nomination because as a nation we can better survive another hack in the Whitehouse than a lack of meaningful oversight.


I would rather vote for Guiliani but alas the "holier than thou" biblethumper crowd that seems to infest the Republican Party would not approve of G's personal baggage and his liberal stance on social issues.

[oloenneker]

There is no Reagan out there to get this country back on track.

Even Reagan could'nt fix this mess!!! That's how screwed it really is!


As a matter of fact, it is because of Reagan, that we are in the mess we are in. You can only cut so much, eventually, there is nothing to cut! And, ladies and germs, that the state we are in now!

[bootlen]

Even Reagan could'nt fix this mess!!! That's how screwed it really is!


As a matter of fact, it is because of Reagan, that we are in the mess we are in. You can only cut so much, eventually, there is nothing to cut! And, ladies and germs, that the state we are in now!

Wassamatter? Welfare check didn't come in?

[PrestonPierce]

We can still make cuts, just not in our country. We can save a lot money on wars that produce nothing but but an increasing number of dead American soldiers while it multiplies the number of terrorists in the world, an overview of the results of this war is that it has created a less stable region that will produce more terrorism during and after we leave than when we got there, if thats a win then W is a hero a great leader and should be carved in with the others at Rushmore. We have basically spent 4 years and over 200 billion dollars to kill one man and as of this morning have still not found the one directly responsible for 911, I'm thinking the plan didn't go well.

[chillbilly]

We can still make cuts, just not in our country.
Well, can you be specific? If you are going to start insisting on cutting military right from the outset to pay for social programs, you will convince me not.

We can save a lot money on wars that produce nothing but but an increasing number of dead American soldiers while it multiplies the number of terrorists in the world, an overview of the results of this war is that it has created a less stable region that will produce more terrorism during and after we leave than when we got there, if thats a win then W is a hero a great leader and should be carved in with the others at Rushmore. We have basically spent 4 years and over 200 billion dollars to kill one man and as of this morning have still not found the one directly responsible for 911, I'm thinking the plan didn't go well.
I could have predicted where you were going with this one after your first sentence.
Actually, we have spent well over 300 billion dollars in the ME and it was not spent to kill one man as you so naively state.
I'll let you do the math on how much money was pissed away in free markets, structure, foundations and lives when this country was attacked.
You want to play the diplomatic game? Go ahead and vote liberal democrat.
That's where your heart is. Just don't be foolish enough to think that defending this country and other country's freedoms around the world is any less important than taxing the electorate into submission and then throwing money into a cesspool of social handouts.

[PrestonPierce]

No I"m not going down the road of liberalism and isolationism but we could have fought a better war had a better plan and attained better results, just seems like the effort was wasted, he was told several times by well respected military men that he did not have enough manpower to get the job done, but he insisted on doing it his way, well he was wrong, I like McCains idea better he says we still need to make a major effort there if we want to win and that it will require a lot more troops, basically get in get it done and get the hell out, the hell with this lingering BS, send enough manpower and weapons to clean the place up properly, and get the hell out.

[chillbilly]

No I"m not going down the road of liberalism and isolationism but we could have fought a better war had a better plan and attained better results,

And it as easy as pie to insist that we could have done this or that better but where are the concise plans that would show a better way??



just seems like the effort was wasted, he was told several times by well respected military men that he did not have enough manpower to get the job done, but he insisted on doing it his way, well he was wrong,
That is simply not true and is a product of media manipulation.
The president has listened to military men who advocated the course as we know it and those who didn't. The important point is that he was elected and empowered to do his best based on the intel and info he has been briefed on. I believe he did and it's typical to observe the naysayers sitting back on Monday morning saying "I told you so" . These same a-holes were waving their flags and tying a yellow ribbon around their friggin eyes 4 years ago.



I like McCains idea better he says we still need to make a major effort there if we want to win and that it will require a lot more troops, basically get in get it done and get the hell out, the hell with this lingering BS, send enough manpower and weapons to clean the place up properly, and get the hell out.

Completing a mission or objective should never be tied to the "Are we there yet?" mentality.
This is a major problem for America. They expect wars to be fought and won in the time it takes to nuke a DiGiornio pizza. Well, here's a newsflash for ya'. The pizza ain't done yet and if I eat it I get the ****z.
Sheesh

[PrestonPierce]

And it as easy as pie to insist that we could have done this or that better but where are the concise plans that would show a better way??


Precise plan = more troops more manpower, at least his old man knew if enough that when the war left the air and got on the ground that it was a whole new ballgame, problem is that he didn't clue his son in.




That is simply not true and is a product of media manipulation.
The president has listened to military men who advocated the course as we know it and those who didn't. The important point is that he was elected and empowered to do his best based on the intel and info he has been briefed on. I believe he did and it's typical to observe the naysayers sitting back on Monday morning saying "I told you so" . These same a-holes were waving their flags and tying a yellow ribbon around their friggin eyes 4 years ago.



Because they believed him when he said he could do the job, but time has told its tale he can't get the job done, now he asks for 20,000 more lives to risk when by all counts it would take at least 150,000.







Completing a mission or objective should never be tied to the "Are we there yet?" mentality.
This is a major problem for America. They expect wars to be fought and won in the time it takes to nuke a DiGiornio pizza. Well, here's a newsflash for ya'. The pizza ain't done yet and if I eat it I get the ****z.
Sheesh

Hey, he's the one that got on the ship and claimed victory , he thought the game was over when it hadn't even began as of then.

[hvacker]

I believe the next President will be the ex Governor of New Mexico.

??what x gov?? Not Richardson as he is still on active duty. I hope he stays here in NM as he is doing more for our State then I can remember anyone doing. We've even got a space port.

[acmanko]

Yea, that's the man I'm talking about

[chillbilly]

Precise plan = more troops more manpower, at least his old man knew if enough that when the war left the air and got on the ground that it was a whole new ballgame, problem is that he didn't clue his son in.
That's not a precise plan and it's not necessarily more manpower that's needed. The problem remains that the American people have the guts for what is precisely needed in the ME, but the politicians put their political grandstanding ahead of what is actually needed for the country. Shameful. And all we hear is criticism.
Where is the lib dem plan?







Because they believed him when he said he could do the job, but time has told its tale he can't get the job done, now he asks for 20,000 more lives to risk when by all counts it would take at least 150,000.
"By all counts"?? Whose counts? Show some evidence that asserts that anyone engaged in our strategy there says we need 150,000 more troops.
That's nothing but rhetorical garbage and you know it.
The libs want to pull out...then they assert we need to stay engaged on some level..and now you have them saying we need 150,000 more troops there??
Put up or shut up. Which is it and who said it?
Show me one democrat with a plan to execute in the ME instead of the usual critical analysis without solutions and I will gladly listen.
I may end up laughing at them, but I'll gladly listen.







Hey, he's the one that got on the ship and claimed victory , he thought the game was over when it hadn't even began as of then.
Oh yes, the ole' "Mission Accomplished" card being played again and again.
How tired. A "mission" is not a war. The president warned this country that this war would be a process that would take time. Duh.

[PrestonPierce]

obviously you are a W fan, I'm not trying to change your mind. I haven't referred to a liberal in this thread, none of what I said came from any Liberals, why would you call the mission accompplished thing a card ? It was a stupid thing for him to say, and that is his legacy he just says a bunch of stupid things,, thats all you get from him. In case you don't know it he is the worst president this country has ever had, and thats a fact.

[renaissanse man]

We can still make cuts, just not in our country. We can save a lot money on wars that produce nothing but but an increasing number of dead American soldiers while it multiplies the number of terrorists in the world, an overview of the results of this war is that it has created a less stable region that will produce more terrorism during and after we leave than when we got there, if thats a win then W is a hero a great leader and should be carved in with the others at Rushmore. We have basically spent 4 years and over 200 billion dollars to kill one man and as of this morning have still not found the one directly responsible for 911, I'm thinking the plan didn't go well.I'm sick and tired of critics of the war saying that all of this is Bush's fault. He is the president and he has more power and say so about the direction this country takes than anyone, but all of you dems conveniently forget about all of the support from the elected officials of YOUR PARTY to go into Iraq. The Brits had the same conclusion. Saddam was in the process of developing a nuclear bomb and delivery system. Hillary was all for it and is now trying to appologise and backpedal, Kerry was for it before he was against it, and now all you fools act like GW went into this by himself. This country is at a critical point in it's history and if we don't have the balls and the tactics to defeat this threat, my grandchildren might be answering to a government jointly controlled by China and Iran. BTW, we didn't go into Iraq to find who was responsible for 9/11, we went there to diffuse a threat that the world agreed existed. There was a different political climate then. Every american was concerned with the safety of their loved ones instead of getting a democrat back into office.

[chillbilly]

obviously you are a W fan, I'm not trying to change your mind. I haven't referred to a liberal in this thread, none of what I said came from any Liberals, why would you call the mission accompplished thing a card ? It was a stupid thing for him to say, and that is his legacy he just says a bunch of stupid things,, thats all you get from him. In case you don't know it he is the worst president this country has ever had, and thats a fact.
Thankfully, facts aren't based on a jaded liberal's viewpoint.
LOL. Facts, my a$$. You're short on facts and long on rhetoric.
But hey, don't worry, you have zero chance of changing my mind, but I'm open to hearing your views. If I think their weak, I'll tell you so and it won't be because I'm trying to change your mind.

In fact, everything you are spouting here comes from the liberal perspective.
The mission accomplished thing...patented liberal singsong...and from the same liberals who voted for the mission and the war in the first place.
It's a card that they have played throughout and it's pathetic.

In realtime, the dynamics of struggles and war don't work that way.
I've already told you what the president told you and everyone else from the outset.
This war would take patience and perseverance.
If you want instant gratification, go play your X-Box.

And yes, I do believe in the president and what he's done and I don't need media or popular opinion polls to make my determinations.

Look at the thread title and your original post. You have all but endorsed a man who in many ways would have executed the ME wars in much the same way.
What a contradiction.

[glennac]

obviously you are a W fan, I'm not trying to change your mind. I haven't referred to a liberal in this thread, none of what I said came from any Liberals, why would you call the mission accompplished thing a card ? It was a stupid thing for him to say, and that is his legacy he just says a bunch of stupid things,, thats all you get from him. In case you don't know it he is the worst president this country has ever had, and thats a fact.

Who in the **** tells you what the facts are Preston? The worst President list is a mile long and Bush while no Regan doesn't come close. Try LBJ who screwed this country up with immigration from countries other than Europe with all their unassimilated cultures, set us up in a war not to win, set up the welfare state, and gave us reverse discrimination (AA). Then there is Jimmy Carter who punished our friends and awarded our enemies (the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollah), destroyed the Nuclear Power industry, and wiped out the American economy, took advice from his brat of a daughter. 130 years ago you had Gant look it up. Anyhow get your “facts” straight before you go shooting off on who is the worst President. :rolleyes:

[chillbilly]

Who in the **** tells you what the facts are Preston? The worst President list is a mile long and Bush while no Regan doesn't come close. Try LBJ who screwed this country up with immigration from countries other than Europe with all their unassimilated cultures, set us up in a war not to win, set up the welfare state, and gave us reverse discrimination (AA). Then there is Jimmy Carter who punished our friends and awarded our enemies (the Shah of Iran and the Ayatollah), destroyed the Nuclear Power industry, and wiped out the American economy, took advice from his brat of a daughter. 130 years ago you had Gant look it up. Anyhow get your “facts” straight before you go shooting off on who is the worst President. :rolleyes:

LOL
PP brings forth a post touting a moderate/conservative republican as the guy who "can win" and then proceeds to tell everyone why the liberals(pp included) have a patent on "facts".
Someone forgot to tell Preston that "facts" aren't predicated on what he hopes they might be.
I'm sure a 3 year old would accept his "fact" as gospel.
He'll have a hard time selling opinion as fact with the grown-ups though.
;)

[James 3528]

More can be said for the way things are regarding the war on terrorism with it being a democrat presidents inaction instead of action.


Kind of the same way the democrats from the governor and mayors office handled the evacuation of New Orleans with plenty of advance notice .

[PrestonPierce]

This is in reply to several posts, the proof is in the pudding, the facts are that we are losing after we claimed victory, cover it up any way you want to but the leadership has been pathetic or just nonexistant , take your pick either will suffice. This guy went to congress and said he had proof their were WMD's but he had none, then he joked about it at a dinner party , how do you accept that ? you should be a little more demanding of your leader don't be so easy. You got hoodwinked ,no big deal.Its only bad thing if you keep eating what he feeds ya.

To say that McCain would have fought the same war is probably inaccurate but there is no way to tell, though it would be hard to believe that he would have agreed on using a small army to fight a big one.:confused: geez,

[geerair]

I'm sick and tired of critics of the war saying that all of this is Bush's fault.Reality is a b!tch.

Perhaps the real problem is that you are riding the Bush bandwagon and can't handle the truth.




He is the president and he has more power and say so about the direction this country takes than anyone, but all of you dems conveniently forget about all of the support from the elected officials of YOUR PARTY to go into Iraq. The Brits had the same conclusion. The Dem. support was predicated on the intelligence supplied by the Whitehouse. Intelligence that was cherry-picked and caveats as to the unreliability of the sources providing this intelligence ignored.

The mistake the Dems. made was in believing that Bush was an honorable man.





Saddam was in the process of developing a nuclear bomb and delivery system.Not according to those in the best position to know, the Iraq Survey Group.



Hillary was all for it and is now trying to appologise and backpedal, Kerry was for it before he was against it, and now all you fools act like GW went into this by himself. Bush owned the intelligence used in an attempt to justify the Iraq invasion, he made all of the decisions concerning the conduct of the invasion and the occupation, so yeah, the war is his.




This country is at a critical point in it's history and if we don't have the balls and the tactics to defeat this threat, my grandchildren might be answering to a government jointly controlled by China and Iran.Unfortunately Bush's optional war has played right into the hands of the Iranians not to mention OBL. He has done their dirty work for them.






BTW, we didn't go into Iraq to find who was responsible for 9/11, we went there to diffuse a threat that the world agreed existed. There was a different political climate then. Every american was concerned with the safety of their loved ones instead of getting a democrat back into office.What threat was this? Colin Powell, Sec. of State said Iraq was not a threat to the U.S., not even a threat to its neighbors.

[bootlen]

W owned the intel?

WJC (as did most of the Dem Congress) made almost the exact proposals when he was President. I guess they also owned the intel.

[geerair]

W owned the intel?Yep.


WJC (as did most of the Dem Congress) made almost the exact proposals when he was President. Did they? Did they propose an invasion?






I guess they also owned the intel. You guess wrong.

Google Curveball, Ahmed Calabi and the Iraq defectors, The office Of special Plans and Niger yellowcake.

[bootlen]

Did they? Did they propose an invasion?


They proposed a regime change in Iraq. What? You think saddam would say, "Oh. Okay. Just let me pack my personals. I'll be outta here by cocktails"?

[PrestonPierce]

The war is a bust, wrong war in the wrong place, only thing to do is finish it quickly with a huge buildup or just leave it alone and get the hell out, what do we win by sending a few thousand troops here and a few thousand there, what kind of frigen strategy is that ? Can't we send enough troops just one time and get it overwith and at least look like we are making a real effort to get the job done, We can't get the job done under this administration they're too dumb. So it will linger for another two years as our death toll rises, and then the next president will have to clean the mess up. I still say as I said in my OP that McCAin is the best qualified to do that, he is the only one that understands what needs to be done there. Bush has recently said that he plans on sprinting to the finish line of his adminisration, I say just take a shortcut and resign.

[James 3528]

That is Geer in the 4 Star General mode.


By the time the president sees his reports, anywhere from five to a hundred people have seen it back to it's gathering source. It gets copied and filed which is why Sandy Burglar stole documents at the archives.

[geerair]

They proposed a regime change in Iraq. What? You think saddam would say, "Oh. Okay. Just let me pack my personals. I'll be outta here by cocktails"?Did they propose an invasion?

[geerair]

That is Geer in the 4 Star General mode.


By the time the president sees his reports, anywhere from five to a hundred people have seen it back to it's gathering source. It gets copied and filed which is why Sandy Burglar stole documents at the archives.This is james in full Bush apologetic mode.


The intel Bush used to justify the Iraq invasion which was presented to Congress was controlled by Bush. No one in Congress had access to this intel before Bush presented it.

The path of the intel was direct to the Whitehouse. From there the Whitehouse decided what to use in Bush's presentation to Congress and Powell's presentation to the U.N.

[bootlen]

Did they propose an invasion?

No. Apparently he was all rhetoric and no substance. Fairly standard for dem/libs.

[Richard Kletty]

If the Dem leadership is so stupid to think that either a woman or a black man stands any chance of winning a national election then it is time to disassociate myself with such ignorant people and become an independent, an independent that will be right leaning if either one of these two get the nomination..

You've just described their stategy. They have nothing to offer on any real issue and cannot make a real decision on any topic so they will throw she and he into the mix to prove that the Dems are more forward thinking than Repubs. Its the only chance they have and a slim one at that.

I agree with you Preston on your entire post. I'm probably leaning McCains way too but as James mentioned its too early to make any real judgements.

[James 3528]

Obama and Hillary is a creation of the press. The press are orgasmic now because the press is left and they have a left leaning Black raised as a Muslim and a socialist woman on the democratic ticket. Those two don't even need to raise money for air time. The other 6 democrats are idiots if they stay in, they are done now and don't even know it.

If you had a black on the republican ticket that had found a cure for cancer and a woman that had found a synthetic fuel that meant their was no more need for crude oil, the press would ignore them

[chillbilly]

This is james in full Bush apologetic mode.


The intel Bush used to justify the Iraq invasion which was presented to Congress was controlled by Bush. No one in Congress had access to this intel before Bush presented it.

The path of the intel was direct to the Whitehouse. From there the Whitehouse decided what to use in Bush's presentation to Congress and Powell's presentation to the U.N.

The protocol of intelliegence gathering and delivery are not administered by the White House. The CIA has and had full authority and delivered the same intel to the president that was delivered to Congress.

To insist that the intelligence was "cherry picked" is unwarranted and untrue.
It does contain a nice liberal ring to it though.
Where is the proof that the president circumvented intel protocol?

There isn't any because it never happened.

After 8 years of Clinton, it's easy to see why people would distrust the president though.

[PrestonPierce]

You've just described their stategy. They have nothing to offer on any real issue and cannot make a real decision on any topic so they will throw she and he into the mix to prove that the Dems are more forward thinking than Repubs. Its the only chance they have and a slim one at that.

I agree with you Preston on your entire post. I'm probably leaning McCains way too but as James mentioned its too early to make any real judgements.


Well, seems like they are wasting their ticket , this election is thiers to win and they are choosing to blow it. I don't think they realize how much of the middle they are going to lose if this is the type of ticket they put out there. They need to step back and take a look at the obvious. The middle ( where elections are won or lost) isn't going to vote for a liberal woman or a black muslim, just not going to happen, why are they wasting time with it ?

[renaissanse man]

Repl geer. The mistake the dems made was believing Bush is an honorable man? Tell me how he has been dishonorable. Why do YOU think he wanted to invade Iraq, if not to protect this country? (This is gonna be very entertaining).

[PrestonPierce]

One word "EGO", and he couldn't handle OBL, so he took aim a target he thought he could conquer but he failed at that also.


Uh the dems believed him when he said they have WMD's,,, they didn't have them, so insted of standing up and taking responsibility for the mistake he blamed everyone else but himself,he also made fun of it, while men were dying there trying to find them he was at a dinner party making a fricken joke about it.The guy has an ego that just doesn't quit and he doesn't care if your kid has to die for it, hell we aren't even trying to win over there he just wants it to linger on because without a war his popularity numbers go down further than what they are,, bout time you guys figured this dude out,,, he's a con man.