Payne Brand

[scocal]

We are putting a second story on our house and are overwhelmed by the number of decisions. HVAC system is up to bat. The system is primarily being determined by the general and sub contractors. Here's some of the details and what they're recommending:

Live in Los Angeles
Upstairs 1400 sq ft, Downstairs 1900 sq ft
Upstairs unit: Payne furnace (PG8JAA, 80% AFUE), 3 Ton Payne A/C PA13, AllStyle Evaporator Coil
Downstairs unit: Payne furnace (PG8JAA, 80% AFUE), 4 Ton Payne A/C PA13, AllStyle Evaporator Coil
House is getting new ducting, windows and insulation

From reading many of the posts already I realize the installer is important and it sounds like Payne is a value line (or low end line) of Carrier/Bryant/Payne.

3 Questions:
Does this system seem reasonable for our house size?

Anything I should request now before installation?

Finally in the orginal bid the general contractor was quoting a heat pump system, but now is recommending the above system. Is this a cheaper (or less efficient) system or equivalent?

I'd like to say this is a great website with very knowledgeable advice. I appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for any feedback...Scott

[scocal]

Still hoping for some feedback on the recommended Payne system.

Thx

[dash]

3300 sq ft ,7 tons,that's one ton per 471 sq ft,sounds oversized,unlees it's very poorly insulated and has a lot of single pane windows.

You should have proof of a Manual J,to determine the correct btus for heating and cooling,Man. S to selecct the equipment, and Man. D to size the duct system.

Heat pump or gas ,depends on the cost of gas versus the cost of electric,heat pumps would require a larger electrical service/panel ,maybe why they choose gas.

[Sam-the-man]

i agree, sounds oversized to me, especially since you mentioned new windows and insulation. Payne IS a value line, but unless you want multi-stage or Infinity, Payne will serve you well as long as the system is designed and installed properly. Sounds like the HVAC contractor is the low-bidder, not that that automaticly mades him a poor choice, but it is usually a good indicator of such. Many factors to consider, but my personal preferance would be mid-to-high efficiency heat pumps with staged electric auxilliary heat. I assume that you are doing these rennovations because you plan to live in the home and you are trying to make it the way YOU want it. Once the job is finished you are pretty much stuck with the systems that are installed. It is well worth the few thousand over the low bid you'll likely have to pay to get the job done properly. If the GC and sub are now reccomending this system, they should be able to give you a compelling reason why you should go this route. Nothing wrong with the Payne equipment they are reccomending, but for a little more $$$ you can increase the efficiency and add VS fans as well. Also a good idea would be media air filters, I prefer to use the Space-Guard model 2200. It's simple to add in during the original installation and the benefits far outweigh the cost IMO. I also feel that YOU should have some input in choosing the sub, the GC's financial interest in the decision applies to the cost of the original installation, your interests go a lot farther than that. Cost of original installation should not be your primary concern. That doesn't mean the highest bidder is the way to go either, find somebody who will size and design the system properly, and can provide you with documentation that they have done so.

[BaldLoonie]

I wouldn't touch Payne. At least upgrade to Bryant or Carrier. Better built, especially in the outdoor units. Not sure what that Allstyle brand coil is doing. Haven't heard much good about them.

How well is the construction? 3 ton for 1400 sq ft? Lots of windows? Little insulation? I see that sizing caught dash's eye too looking back at the threads.

[HVAC Teacher]

I agree sounds a little oversized. Up here in the midwest the trend is to downsize the ac a little so it runs longer (saving energy / cylcing) and thus dropping more humidity.

[Irishmist]

I would also agree that a manual J should be performed and some documentation provided to you that it has been done as the only existing manner by which to properly size equipment.

I would personally go with a heat pump since air conditioning will be the primary demand on the system. You wont have often that you have to depend on back up heat, but if you do, then the first stage of the heat pump will probably provide what you need.

My son and daughter-in-law live in Burbank so am somewhat familiar with their weather.

Yes, Payne is somewhat of a second to Bryant. If you can upgrade to the Bryant you will probably wind up with better warranties. Also, be sure if someone is proposing a certain efficiency rating of equipment, that they show you the ARI ratings for THAT particular unit matched up with THAT particular indoor unit.

All the best, John.

A good air distribution system is also a must. A manual D calculation should be performed so that the duct is sized properly. With the investment I anticipate you making in this system, someone should be more than willing to take the time necessary to go through this with you. Preferably the sub-contractor (HVAC guy) as opposed to the general contractor.

[glennac]

I would also like to add that you sure don't need 4 tons for downstairs. No more than 3. Heat rises and the attic or ceiling is hot in the summer. You might even get by with 2 1/2 downstairs but a heat load should be ran. That's my 2 cents. :D :D :D

[blueferretdog]

I disagree about Payne being bad, that said it is the cost leader for Bryant, unless you are on a real budget, you may consider higher line equipment, ALSO real heating and cooling calculations are important, I have seen too many "educated guesses" that are wrong.

[dougfamous]

I wouldn't touch Payne. At least upgrade to Bryant or Carrier. Better built, especially in the outdoor units. Not sure what that Allstyle brand coil is doing. Haven't heard much good about them.

Why do you say that about Payne? The furnaces are IDENTICAL to the Bryant/Carrier/Day & Night (they all come off the same line). The Payne PG8 is a Bryant 310AAV or Carrier 58CAV. Yes, the outdoor units are different, but they all use the same compressors/fans/electronics. The units are a different shape (and color). I have put in a ton of Payne equipment and have rarely ever had a problem.

Yes, that is a base system, but it could be a LOT worse. He could be getting a GoodMana.

[aircooled53]

:cool: We install alot of Payne equipment on AHS and we haven't had any problems with this equipment.

It is considered standard builder's line, and it will do the job it was designed for without problems; if installed and load calculations were done.;)

[aircooled53]

:cool: We install alot of Payne equipment on AHS and we haven't had any problems with this equipment.

It is considered standard builder's line, and it will do the job it was designed for without problems; if installed and load calculations were done.;)

Allstyle coils -Houston , Texas

NO Comment________________________!:(

[dna]

I've installed some Payne a/c systems. No problems except for the usual maintenance. My only complaint is about their outdoor units.............a little noisy.

[thoglow]

Allstyle evap coils?No way Jose.

[BaldLoonie]

Why do you say that about Payne? The furnaces are IDENTICAL to the Bryant/Carrier/Day & Night (they all come off the same line). The Payne PG8 is a Bryant 310AAV or Carrier 58CAV.

The Plus 80, 311AAV uses a different board, different motor. Why? Does the Payne have the same Fan On Plus™ technology or QuieTech™ noise reduction system?

The 310 is a builder model Bryant doesn't even feature on their website. Even the RNC outdoor unit is better built than a Payne. But at least they got rid of the super cheap "teardrop" cabinet.

[catmanacman]

i would stay with gas heat but change to to a carrier coil because that is what the seer is rated with.