Too much freon?

[Physoft]

I have a Goodman 3.5 ton heat pump model A42-00 about 10 years old which had stopped blowing heat. The tech said the unit was "bone dry" and said he added 12 pounds of freon. Unit is working now but I am doubtful that he added that much freon. How could I have verified this? Should he have documented this? I have no invoice and paid cash. Should he have showed me the gauges? What is the procedure (if any) for documenting how much freon is required and then added?

[BobbyBJr]

You can look at the nameplate and get an approximation of how much freon the unit holds, but the most important thing is did he find the leak?? If it was bone dry, then it got out somewhere.

Bobby

[dhvac]

well to start with there is a tag on the unit that says how much of a charge it holds

lots more to this but if it was bone dry i hope he pulled a vacuum and looked for a leak

[Physoft]

Thanks Bobby, he had a sniffer and looked around but did not find the leak. I can't locate the plate you mentioned but in doing other research I am told the the unit holds 10-12 pounds of freon.

[coolguysfl]

Freon is weighed in, with a scale.

But as stated earlier ---- if he didn't find the leak, you will have a repeat event.

[Physoft]

I did not see any scale at any time. Does this mean that without a scale the tech had no idea how freon he was adding? He just hooked up the lines and turned the R22 tank upside down and turned the valve(s) on the guages. While I was on the roof, I saw the dials move but don't know what they were reading except when he started the dial on the left was at 10. He had me return to the air handler in the apartment and had me switch the heat and cool cycle while he stayed on the roof adding the freon.

I know I will repeat the problem sooner of later depending on how bad the leak is.

[beenthere]

He figured the the unit was low enough that it took abouot what the name plate charge said.

If your worried about being charged for gas he didn't put in.
Be prepared for another bill just as big, since the leak was not fixed.
Along with high electric bills.

[BaldLoonie]

If it were bone dry, it probably had some air or moisture in the system. If all he did is add juice, it could be contaminated. But as all the other posts said, its' only gonna leak out soon :eek:

[Airmechanical]

i know it has already been posted, but anytime a system
is (out) of refrigerant, the freon should (NOT) be added
until leak is found, and then system is evacuated, and a liquid
line dryer installed. (then add freon)

with the system being empty of refrigerant (fast leak), a charge
of nitrogen (should) be able to locate a leak.

in general each ton of cooling capacity requires (approx.)
3 lbs of freon (not including extra lineset length)

example 3 ton split sysytem=(approx.) 9 lbs.of refrigerant

package systems use less refrigerant due to no lineset

your system WILL leak out of the freon soon due to
the fact that it was (out) of freon and the leak was not found
and fixxed, yes you just paid for freon that will leak right back out!


.

[Physoft]

I considered doing a leak test but was told that it would cost twice as much as adding freon with no guarantee they would find the leak. The original charge lasted 10 years so it might be a very very slow leak. The plan is to test the system in about a month and if a little low put stop leak and see how long that holds. These measures seem prudent now since they might work and delay the cost of a new system. I realize that I am on borrowed time.

Certainly I would like to find the leak but if finding the leak cost $XXX.XX I would rather put that money toward a new system. It it leaks out sooner rather than later then a new system will be in order. Time will tell.

[davo]

I considered doing a leak test but was told that it would cost twice as much as adding freon with no guarantee they would find the leak. The original charge lasted 10 years so it might be a very very slow leak. The plan is to test the system in about a month and if a little low put stop leak and see how long that holds. These measures seem prudent now since they might work and delay the cost of a new system. I realize that I am on borrowed time.

Certainly I would like to find the leak but if finding the leak cost $XXX.XX I would rather put that money toward a new system. It it leaks out sooner rather than later then a new system will be in order. Time will tell.

Sounds like you need a second opinion from a reputable contractor.

Just because what this guy is telling you seems to be what you want to hear, it is not in your best interest.

A small leak would leak a little and would not be "Bone Dry".

The protocall he described is good for a system found slightly low on refrigerant.

As far as putting the money towards a new system, what if the leaks are in the lineset, and you put in new equipment? You will be mad when your new system is "bone dry" and not under warranty.

I handle it this way:
Leak check the system and charge the customer. Customer pays me. Price of service call is deducted from new equipment contract if one is purchased.

FYI: For billing puposes, if not "weighing in" the charge, I weigh my jug after every use at the truck, and write the weight on the cylinder. This makes it quick for me to know how much was used.

[Physoft]

Thanks Davo, this goes back to my original point and reason for starting this thread. It's possible that the system was not "bone dry" and therefore I got overcharged for freon. I have no way of knowing since I did not see any scale to weigh the tank. At least now I know what to look for and will ask more questions next time.

Now the focus is on the leak. How much money, time and effort to spend finding the leak vs a new system is the next question. True, if there is a pinhole leak in the lineset buried in the wall I better find it before installing anything new.

[Airmechanical]

The plan is to test the system in about a month and if a little low, put stop leak and see how long that holds.

would you order me a pallet of that stop leak :D





.

[Physoft]

Sure, what color would you like.

[Richard Kletty]

heheh You said Stop Leak LOL Too funny...

[tntek]

Does stop leak really work? I have never used it. The company I work for does not even use it. Just wondering. Have heard it was not a great product.

[yelram]

I have a Goodman 3.5 ton heat pump model A42-00 about 10 years old which had stopped blowing heat. The tech said the unit was "bone dry" and said he added 12 pounds of freon. Unit is working now but I am doubtful that he added that much freon. How could I have verified this? Should he have documented this? I have no invoice and paid cash. Should he have showed me the gauges? What is the procedure (if any) for documenting how much freon is required and then added?

Wow you want some cheese to go with that whine? Why are you doubtful he added that much freon? If you dont trust the guy, dont call him to service your equipment. He cant show you the amount of freon with the gauges, only the pressures one both sides of the system. I imagine it wasnt completely flatlined, but that there was still positive pressure on the system. You're lucky he didnt do what some of these guys on here were saying should be done, or your bill would be three times as much. 12 pounds on a 3.5 ton heatpump is about right if it was really low. What seer is it?

[Krzyd]

Does stop leak really work? I have never used it. The company I work for does not even use it. Just wondering. Have heard it was not a great product.


We tried it on an old system (15ton) scheduled for a winter replacement due to multiple small evap leaks. We found it did reduce/eliminate most of the leaks, however, we also experienced a 30% rise in head pressure. We were able to correct this after a recovery/recharge. I would not use this product as a preventative, only as an emergency stopgap measure.

[Physoft]

Wow you want some cheese to go with that whine? Why are you doubtful he added that much freon? If you dont trust the guy, dont call him to service your equipment. He cant show you the amount of freon with the gauges, only the pressures one both sides of the system. I imagine it wasnt completely flatlined, but that there was still positive pressure on the system. You're lucky he didnt do what some of these guys on here were saying should be done, or your bill would be three times as much. 12 pounds on a 3.5 ton heatpump is about right if it was really low. What seer is it?


You are correct yelram, finding the leak would have doubled my bill. But now I am thinking I will have to find the leak anyway, otherwise I am throwing my money down the drain or up in the air whichever the case may be because the leak is still there.

Also correct, the system probably wasn't completely flatlined, I still had some heat coming down the 3/4 copper pipe and luke warm air coming out the vent sometimes. So I don't think it was really "bone dry".

The point I am raising is that I shouldn't be left guessing about how much freon was added. This is what created the doubt in my mind in the first place. The tank should have been weighed before and after filling and documented on an invoice or at least done in my presence.

This was the first time I used this tech so I did not know what to expect. I like the guy personally and from the knowledge gained on this thread I think I will be able to reason with him. I intend to give him another shot at this problem and in finding the leak. I will also get other opinions along the way as I shop for a new system. I understand they are quite expensive these days.

Not sure what seer it is. What's a sear and where can it find it?

[nickellhead]

SEER is Standard Electrical Efficiency Rating and usually its on the center plate on top of condensor coil if not then it comes on a yellow tag when you buy it

[Physoft]

SEER is Standard Electrical Efficiency Rating and usually its on the center plate on top of condensor coil if not then it comes on a yellow tag when you buy it

Thanks, I'll check that out next time I am on the roof and take off the heat pump cover.

Can you measure or approximate the amount of freon required/added by the guages? The left guage was at 10 when first connected. He said it should have been 30. Does that mean the system was 1/3 full and 2/3 low?

[always learnin]

I find it really hard to believe that a 3.5 ton heat pump would take 12# of freon! You need to look at the lable which is located above where he hooked up his gauges and under panel where the electrical components would be.
Look in the area on label where it says something about test pressures, and it should listed in ounces( I think). That's where it says factory charge. That should give you an idea of how much charge you need.( keep in mind that some may also be needed if the lineset is long).
Without actually working on/seeing your system I still find it hard to justify 12#s of freon especially that it still had some in it.
As stated before, I'd be getting a second opinion.

[riderman]

[QUOTE=Airmechanical;1349207]i know it has already been posted, but anytime a system
is (out) of refrigerant, the freon should (NOT) be added
until leak is found, your system WILL leak out of the freon soon due to
the fact that it was (out) of freon and the leak was not found
and fixxed, yes you just paid for freon that will leak right back out!


With this being said. Is this considered venting? I mean, with a pro being called for a tech assist, he KNOWS the EPA rules. The tech fills an empty system, without finding the source of the leak. Just because the customer refuses to pay for a leak detect charge. This does NOT circumvent the EPA law does it? If not, the poster should be due the award for turning this hack in. Probably a grey area, with a loophole.

You pro's tell the HO' the laws, we thank yee. I just wish the hack tech's would post this info here so ya could school em!

[riderman]

[QUOTE=Airmechanical;1349207]i know it has already been posted, but anytime a system
is (out) of refrigerant, the freon should (NOT) be added
until leak is found, and then system is evacuated, and a liquid
line dryer installed. (then add freon)

I agree with the first sentence. The second one I take exception with. Fixing the leak and a proper vacume pulled is not satisfactory? Just wondering.

[tcktech]

Sorry you got a hack or just a lazy tech to work on your HP.
10 yr. old goodman leak? 1st check indoor coil 9 out of 10 replace coil.
A pro tech could find the leak in about 15min.
Maby he does not owen a set of scales.:D

[dhvac]

I find it really hard to believe that a 3.5 ton heat pump would take 12# of freon!


well a gsh13 3 ton h/p takes 188 oz's and i will even do the math for you thats 11 lbs 12 oz so add for lineset and another half ton in system size and yes 12 lbs is very realistic

[nickellhead]

Thanks, I'll check that out next time I am on the roof and take off the heat pump cover.

Can you measure or approximate the amount of freon required/added by the guages? The left guage was at 10 when first connected. He said it should have been 30. Does that mean the system was 1/3 full and 2/3 low?

The only accurate way to tell how much freon he used is for him to weight it in and the only way to know how much freon it needs is to look at the data plate on the condensor itself and than tell us what it says and also tell us approx how far from condensor to the air handler it is to get the lineset
Also the left gauge doesnt tell how much freon is in the system it tells the tech what temp the evaperator coil is running

But my question is have you ever had any previos problems with your system and was the tech a side job rookie

[flyin'gator]

definately sounds like a lazy tech. a leak check, repair, vacuum drawdown, and filter dryer is the only way to prevent yourself from constantly throwing away money to both the ac company and the power company. the last thing you want to see is your first hot month's power bill when your unit has lost another 4 lbs. you will want to pull your hair out. i have seldom had to charge more than 1 hour's labor to pinpoint a leak on a residential system. often leaks can be found much quicker than that.

[4l530]

Originally posted by riderman
With this being said. Is this considered venting? I mean, with a pro being called for a tech assist, he KNOWS the EPA rules. The tech fills an empty system, without finding the source of the leak. Just because the customer refuses to pay for a leak detect charge. This does NOT circumvent the EPA law does it? If not, the poster should be due the award for turning this hack in. Probably a grey area, with a loophole.

You pro's tell the HO' the laws, we thank yee. I just wish the hack tech's would post this info here so ya could school em!

Not considered venting, just poor practice. The reg's on when a leak must be repaired do not apply to residential comfort cooling, they do not hold enough refrigerant.

[4l530]

Originally posted by Physoft
While I was on the roof, I saw
Maybe this has been addressed, but I'm wondering whether this is a package unit or split system

[andserco]

"I have no invoice".................Thats a red flag on the quaility of the service call.......

[beenthere]

SEER is Standard Electrical Efficiency Rating and usually its on the center plate on top of condensor coil if not then it comes on a yellow tag when you buy it


SEER = Seasonal Energy Efficency Rating.

[Physoft]

Maybe this has been addressed, but I'm wondering whether this is a package unit or split system

It is a split system. I am going up on the roof tomorrow to check out the tag info on capacities etc.

[Physoft]

The only accurate way to tell how much freon he used is for him to weight it in and the only way to know how much freon it needs is to look at the data plate on the condensor itself and than tell us what it says and also tell us approx how far from condensor to the air handler it is to get the lineset
Also the left gauge doesnt tell how much freon is in the system it tells the tech what temp the evaperator coil is running

But my question is have you ever had any previos problems with your system and was the tech a side job rookie

The condenser is about 60 feet from the air handler. I am on the top floor and the condenser is on the roof directly above my unit.

A different company replaced a blown fuse about 5 years ago. The system was checked for charge and was ok then.

Current tech told me that he has been doing this all his life.

How can you tell from the gauges when a system needs freon and then how do you know how much to add?

[Airmechanical]

[QUOTE=Airmechanical;1349207]i know it has already been posted, but anytime a system
is (out) of refrigerant, the freon should (NOT) be added
until leak is found, and then system is evacuated, and a liquid
line dryer installed. (then add freon)

riderman said;
I agree with the first sentence. The second one I take exception with. Fixing the leak and a proper vacume pulled is not satisfactory? Just wondering.


well the liquid line dryer was more of a recommendation it sure wont hurt anything!



.

[yelram]

How can you tell from the gauges when a system needs freon and then how do you know how much to add?


It all depends on the temperature outside, and inside because freon expands and condenses depending on temperature, there is no surefire way to decode pressures into weight. You can determine if the charge is wrong several different ways (superheat and subcooling being the best) the easiest way would be to check inside of the service panel on the unit, and there should be a pressure/temperature chart/table. It will tell you about what the pressures should be according to the outdoor and indoor temperatures. Adding freon to a system with a low charge is an art, not a science. There is no formula that says "if the temperature is this and the pressure is this add this many ounces", or maybe there is, and i've just never been introduced to it.

[nickellhead]

It all depends on the temperature outside, and inside because freon expands and condenses depending on temperature, there is no surefire way to decode pressures into weight. You can determine if the charge is wrong several different ways (superheat and subcooling being the best) the easiest way would be to check inside of the service panel on the unit, and there should be a pressure/temperature chart/table. It will tell you about what the pressures should be according to the outdoor and indoor temperatures. Adding freon to a system with a low charge is an art, not a science. There is no formula that says "if the temperature is this and the pressure is this add this many ounces", or maybe there is, and i've just never been introduced to it.
I couldnt have said it better myself
and even if that unit has a temp/psi chart it still wouldnt tell you how much he added and also if the only problem that you've had is a blown fuse than I would definitly have a leak check done before you end up buying a new system sooner than you thought

[partsonorder]

Hers my 2 two cents, the cost of leak check will be payed after you get your electricity bill for a heat pump that is heating your place low on charge, especially if you have strip heat installed. You said he had an electronic leak detector so he tried looking for something. You also stated that the unit was still working but inefficiently so it couldn't have been bone dry and sort of working unless you have a strip heater that comes on as auxiliary heat. My conclusion is call a reputable contractor and explain the situation and have him check the charge and go from there. Good luck.

[y7turbo]

whats the big deal over a few pounds of 22? it sounds like when he told you about leak checking and charging you extra for it you didnt want to do it "because the last charge was in there for 10 years" as you stated. ill bet the reason he asked you to get off the roof and change the setting on the thermostat was because you were bothering him while he was working,the roof is our office let us work. i dont blame him for his "gas and go" service call. you guys can blame the service tech for his "hack" job but we dont know the situation.

and yes i just said what most were thinking but didnt want to say.

[Physoft]

whats the big deal over a few pounds of 22? it sounds like when he told you about leak checking and charging you extra for it you didnt want to do it "because the last charge was in there for 10 years" as you stated. ill bet the reason he asked you to get off the roof and change the setting on the thermostat was because you were bothering him while he was working,the roof is our office let us work. i dont blame him for his "gas and go" service call. you guys can blame the service tech for his "hack" job but we dont know the situation.

and yes i just said what most were thinking but didnt want to say.


It wasn't a few pounds of freon it was 12. At $XX per pound that gets expensive. The tech should have weighed the tank before and after filling to arrive at an accurate amount.

Ideally, he should have found the leak, evacuated the system and used a chemical dryer before adding freon.

He never suggested a full leak check that day. Other than the sniffer, no other leak check like what has been suggested on this thread was offered. I would have thought very carefully about this if he had recommended it. In fact he wants come back in about 30 days and check the system again. His reasoning is that he wants to know whether the leak is fast of slow. If the leak is fast he will do a leak check and hopefully find the leak. If a slow leak then he recommends adding stop leak.

I have to weigh this additional cost against a new system and make a difficult decision which I would have made that day if confronted with it. I realize from this thread that the leak must be found.

I knew the approx cost of a full leak check because I had gotten quotes from other HVAC companies before calling this tech.

We got along fine I was not a bother to him. In fact he offered me a job working with him as a trainee.

[Physoft]

Hers my 2 two cents, the cost of leak check will be payed after you get your electricity bill for a heat pump that is heating your place low on charge, especially if you have strip heat installed. You said he had an electronic leak detector so he tried looking for something. You also stated that the unit was still working but inefficiently so it couldn't have been bone dry and sort of working unless you have a strip heater that comes on as auxiliary heat. My conclusion is call a reputable contractor and explain the situation and have him check the charge and go from there. Good luck.

I do not have a strip heater. The tech tells me that heat pumps loose their effficiency below 45 degrees. It was 46 last night and the heater kicked on quite a bit. I will consider the a strip heater installed to make the system more efficient. The tech wants to return in 30 days to check the charge.

[partsonorder]

So if u have no strip heat and it was heating it wasnt bone dry, especially if its been really cold where u live. If he told you that he wanted to return in a month to check the charge he either found a couple of possibilities of leaks like the service caps at the unit or wants to establish the rate of the leak. Either way, sounds like he might be in the right direction and maybe just mischarged you for the freon. If its someone you know ask him about it, or if you lost faith in the tech call another company out and have them check out the unit.

[beenthere]

I do not have a strip heater. The tech tells me that heat pumps loose their effficiency below 45 degrees. It was 46 last night and the heater kicked on quite a bit. I will consider the a strip heater installed to make the system more efficient. The tech wants to return in 30 days to check the charge.

If you haven't needed strip heaters for ten years, you don't need them now.
They don't make a heat pump more efficent. They cost more to heat with then the heat pump.

[gevans]

Most of us have a scale in the truck and weigh the bottle between service calls. The name plate on the outdoor unit will list the TYPICAL charge. If your lineset is longer or larger diameter than TYPICAL, the charge will be more. BTW, 12 lbs sounds about right for a 3 1/2 ton heatpump split system.
You need to find this leak, and either have it fixed or the unit replaced. Sounds like you have not had any service on this unit in years. That will cost you $$ by the month in utility bills. Cheaper to get the unit running properly.

[Airmechanical]

:p i take it back



.

[Airmechanical]

:p
whats the big deal over a few pounds of 22? it sounds like when he told you about leak checking and charging you extra for it you didnt want to do it "because the last charge was in there for 10 years" as you stated. ill bet the reason he asked you to get off the roof and change the setting on the thermostat was because you were bothering him while he was working,the roof is our office let us work. i dont blame him for his "gas and go" service call. you guys can blame the service tech for his "hack" job but we dont know the situation and yes i just said what most were thinking but didnt want to say.


was that you at his house,JUST KIDDING:D:p



.

[jrbenny]

thats the second funniest thing that i have read on this site

the first funniest thing was when you said it the first time
a couple of posts ago.

the reason why its funny if you dont know is because there is
(NO SUCH THING)

your tech. is a hack! plain and simple! :confused:



.
You might want to use the search function of this forum. Leak Stop is a real product. Many have used it with great success.

[Airmechanical]

You might want to use the search function of this forum. Leak Stop is a real product. Many have used it with great success.


i stand corrected, just because you bottle something up and
put the label stop leak on it does'nt mean its gonna work,go
ahead and put your stop leak in to fix leaks on your service
calls,i guess i will stick to the traditional way.
i always try to do what my signature below says

[isoldthat]

Stop leak!!! hmmmmm...iwonder if that works better than a torch:rolleyes:

[riderman]

You might want to use the search function of this forum. Leak Stop is a real product. Many have used it with great success.

Is this a true statement? You do know how this stuff works, right?

In the automotive world, this stuff is a joke. A bandaid covering the real problem, that contributes to more expensive labor down the road when the system is opened and REAL repairs are performed.

Pay the man now for the correct repair, or payem MORE later to clean up the mess.

[ClipperTech]

Is this a true statement? You do know how this stuff works, right?

In the automotive world, this stuff is a joke. A bandaid covering the real problem, that contributes to more expensive labor down the road when the system is opened and REAL repairs are performed.

Pay the man now for the correct repair, or payem MORE later to clean up the mess.


This 'stop leak' product (not the product's trade name) for HVAC DOES work, and it is a permanent solution. The product is a liquid in a vacuum packed can and sets up at the site where moisture is ingressing into the system. In other words, where you have a micron leak there will be a small amount of condensation produced by the escaping refrigerant. The product forms a crystaline plug and permanently seals the leak. It is formulated for micron leaks that you cannot find or cannot easily be repaired. ie. lines in walls or underground. The product is the only one on the market and is available at most HVAC supply companies across the US. It has been on the market for several years, and IT WORKS.

[gsxrsquid]

Yes it works. Whenever possible I always braze a leak or replace a leaking component. A couple years ago my company was hired to go behind someone else hacked some new installs on some high dollar houses. The were really $hitty brazers and instead of using a new roll of copper they apparently brazed pieced together and ran them inside the walls which were finished by the time we came in. Naturally the leaks were in the walls and the contractor said no way was he gonna let me start wacking on the sheetrock to find the leak. The boys at Johnstone said they had the magic stop leak. I figured it is a hack but with no other option used it on 3 houses with leaks that were in the walls.
I know that they were still working a year later.
I have not used it since but it DOES work.

[partsonorder]

Question for gsxrsquid or clippertech, do you release trhe hole can into the charge? I am curious because i am wondering if the contents that aren't used to repair leaks are left in the charge and would be a contaniment to the system. Not questioning the method just curious about the product. Also, does one can repair any type of refrigerant or is specific to the type of refrigerant you are using.

[riderman]

I didnt mean to say that it didnt work (stop leak) I was stating it was a bandaid to the real problem. Automotive use has a more rigorous application and operating environment I guess, O'rings, compression fittings, flex hoses, more vibration, etc.

It Always's seems to fail after a period of time in this environment. No question, no doubt and proven.

People put this in for a cheap fix for an expensive repair or to just get it working long enough to sell the vehicle.

No company or manufacturer that I know of recommends this stuff. I'm not sure about warrantee coverage if it is used.

I'd have to put this up there with "Hack" install's if you use this on a customers HVAC system.

Go back and look at some of the Pro's posts. They are not concerned with the PO cost, only quality installs. I agree with this by the way. How can ya tell the old lady on SSI her 20 year old system is not worth repairing due to age, quote XXX for a replacement unit when safety was not the issue, then put that stop leak stuff in her neighbors 5 yr old HP and feel good about it?

[riderman]

[QUOTE=ClipperTech;1352644] In other words, where you have a micron leak there will be a small amount of condensation produced by the escaping refrigerant. The product forms a crystaline plug and permanently seals the leak.
This is true, from what i have studied. But you rarely see the sealer on the outside of the leak. So this condensate must also get into the system so the system can form the "crystaline plug". That seems to be the argument from the opposing info on the product that I have read.

[Physoft]

I didnt mean to say that it didnt work (stop leak) I was stating it was a bandaid to the real problem. Automotive use has a more rigorous application and operating environment I guess, O'rings, compression fittings, flex hoses, more vibration, etc.

It Always's seems to fail after a period of time in this environment. No question, no doubt and proven.

People put this in for a cheap fix for an expensive repair or to just get it working long enough to sell the vehicle.

No company or manufacturer that I know of recommends this stuff. I'm not sure about warrantee coverage if it is used.

I'd have to put this up there with "Hack" install's if you use this on a customers HVAC system.

Go back and look at some of the Pro's posts. They are not concerned with the PO cost, only quality installs. I agree with this by the way. How can ya tell the old lady on SSI her 20 year old system is not worth repairing due to age, quote XXX for a replacement unit when safety was not the issue, then put that stop leak stuff in her neighbors 5 yr old HP and feel good about it?

Everything fails sooner of later. I seems to me that you have to make a judement about what is most cost effective. This is especially true with leak you can't find or one that is buried in the wall that you can't see. You could replace the entire lineset and not find the leak. Is it worth it to spend $XXXX to find a pinhole leak when stop leak will work? I don't think it's right to call it a "hack". It's a matter of judgement and budget.

[apprentice3yr]

12 pounds for a 3 1/2 ton unit ! maybe if you have a huge line set maybe. 12 ponds a little much...maybe 5-7 pounds. But like everybody has said you have to check the mane plate for system needs and also no fixie the leak the unit is looking for another tech soon.

[riderman]

Everything fails sooner of later. I seems to me that you have to make a judement about what is most cost effective. This is especially true with leak you can't find or one that is buried in the wall that you can't see. You could replace the entire lineset and not find the leak. Is it worth it to spend $XXXX to find a pinhole leak when stop leak will work? I don't think it's right to call it a "hack". It's a matter of judgement and budget.

While I agree with ya, this does not seem to be the pro's consensus here. The cost decision is just a recommendation from you, the tech. The final decision should be made by the customer without you or your companys bias to sell a complete new system.

As you stated, this is the reverse of the sales pitch..It's easier\cheaper to put stop leak in a system. Most customers, in this case, would go for the cheap repair, I'd guess. What if it doesnt work? I'd advise them of the cost of stop leak\vrs the cost of guaranteed repairs. For xxx dollars more than your labor to add stop leak, you can gurantee it for XXX more. Let them decide then you can walk from the job satisfied.

I feel all of you should tell the customer that it will cost XX dollars to repair the unit, vrs XXXX dollars for a replacement, instead of "it's old, junk, replace it NOW, my salesman can be here in the morning.

NO ONE here can say that after a repair is performed, it will die the next day, or last 3 more years. If you can, please come put your hand on my system and tell me when it will die. You will be a millionare in a couple weeks, if you have that power\knowledge.

OR, you are afraid your competitor will get to sell them a new unit on the next service call.......

The old lady on SSI is a true story posted here.