Any self-employed guys out there? [Archive] - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion

citywide service

01-24-2007, 01:04 AM

I started in resi hvac and begged and pleaded with a company to take me as a refrig. tech. Once they did I learned as much as I could in a short time as I hurt my back on the very large compressors; so much so that it took me almost 2yrs to get back to being able to work again.

Last year I got in with a small company that did light refrigeration (walkins and reachins and such) and commercial kitchen repair. After the owner of that company started going belly up I left that company and started my own gig in August of 06. At the moment I only service my local Sonics, not enough to pay the bills but I have other issues that I have to take care of right now - I am caring for my mother in law a few hours everyday.

I am looking forward to getting more business this year to take more of the burden off the wife so wish me luck.

CW.

cybercontadino

01-30-2007, 06:48 PM

CW, Thanks for the reply. It does seem to be a wide open field. You have to be able to figure things out for yourself though. I love being independent and have never looked back.
I have never been "too proud" to avail myself of the 800 numbers of the manufacturers. Once and awhile they have even helped! Mostly with part numbers and probe values..
I've heard of Sonic advertised here in Central Jersey but havent come across any yet. I'm not familiar with them
I have Wendys account for the mornings and a Dunkin Donuts account for the afternoons. They dovetail beautifully in terms of getting in to get the work done . Of course there are other small accounts to fill in. I have never been without work
and I'm going on 5 years now. The problem is too much work during the warmer months. I'm 53 and dont have the same drive that I once had, so I rarely work more than 10 hours a day.
This state is booming as far as work goes. I just wish one of my four sons would be interested. Can't say I blame them though. It can be difficult and dirty work. Wonder if I would have gotten into this trade if I didnt have 5 kids and a stay at home wife when I started?
Every one of the larger food service companies around here have permanent help wanted signs on their trucks. I guess kids don't apprentice themselves with Erector sets , Radio Shack project kits, and bicycles like my generation did to prepare themselves mechanically.
The down side to living in this area is that it is getting congested. The woods and fields are fast disappearing, and the real America has "shifted westward". I'm thinking of relocating to north central Pennsylvania, around where Penn State is.
In about 4 years I would give up a decent income to live where there is more breathing room.
I said too much...John

TBG

01-30-2007, 10:33 PM

Been self imployed since march of 06. Been very busy.
CW, dont worry when your name gets out there and you do good work you will be turning away business. That is the way it is here in N. Florida anyway.

I started this with 2 other partners, I think that is my only regret. They are always arguing with each other and do not communicate, which causes huge problems. I used to try and be a peacemaker but I gave up on that.
OH Well we will see what happens

FurnacePro

01-30-2007, 11:27 PM

Hey All,

I am not currently Self Employed, but I have thought about it many times. I started in the industry about 10 years ago through an SMWIA Apprenticeship. 4 years ago, I took a job with a small gas fireplace company, (Owner +3 employees) who wanted to get into hvac/r. It was a real experience in quasi business ownership without having the financial risk myself. As the company grew to where it was departmentalized (service, new install, retro...) the owner and I kind of lost touch with what had started out as a great business relationship. I ended up leaving, and taking a lesser position for the same money. I remember one time sitting in a seminar with the owner and the instructor was talking about the importance of having well defined positions. We were supposed to write down what our exact position was and what was expected of us. I looked at him and he had this blank look too, then he took my paper and wrote; "That's the front door, there's the back door... everything inbetween is your responsibility." We both had a good laugh and I got a raise! I have often been asked why I don't just break out on my own, and I really can't answer...... pre-jump jitters I guess. I'm sure I will do it, maybe I just need someone to push me. I think I'm afraid I'm gonna get sucked into the propeller or something.

Anyway, I appreciate the posts in this thread.

citywide service

01-31-2007, 02:10 AM

Hey cybercondito,

Drop me a line on email if you will, I would like to visit with you a bit.

Thanks,

CW.

dhvac

01-31-2007, 08:01 AM

well right now i am self employed (that means either i own my job or it owns me)
i am working my butt of to become a true business owner (that means i will run things but not let them run me)
it seems to be a lot harder to do then anything i have done in my life so far

there are lots of very intelligent guys (and girls) here that will help you with just about anything you can think of hvac related or otherwise

as a mater of fact it is because of this website that i am where i am now and even have the hopes of going farther

cybercontadino

02-02-2007, 01:17 PM

Hey CW my email address is in my profile. John

Big Red

02-05-2007, 02:13 AM

I left a company that had a 120 service techs. They lost a major supermarket chain so I went from servicing multiplex refer system to resi systems and very light ref sys. I got my contractors lic and partnered up whith a guy and bought a a/c bus that had been around since 1969. Owners retired show us the ropes and bailed. That lasted 10 months with the partner. He ended up being a real ****head. I sold him my shares and been on my own for two years. Let me say this I'm still learning and I don't have all the answers but this is some of what I do know. Do not have a lot of bills, make a business plan, learn about the financials, keep overhead low, give good prices and great service keep up on this website. GOOD LUCK........

heatmansd

02-05-2007, 05:35 PM

U R in a good area for a hvac contractor N probably for a refrigeration expert/contractor. I'm in a so-so area for a Hvac contractor since I don't do tract homes ,condos, or townhomes. It would nice if I could advertise for refrigeration service here in a high restaurant traffic town. And I'm talking profitable for both of us to teamup. I know U had a partner before N it did not work. But I'm talking about a tag/team enterprise.

Hvacman4God

02-08-2007, 03:28 PM

In the field of hvac/r the only thing limiting you is yourself. I worked for many years for American Residential Services(A.R.S) as a install tech then on to change-outs then finally to service tech only to be let go as a result of yet another coporate merger. After that I got on with a few other small companies but the pay was not worth the trouble. Over the years I met and delt with alot of builders, contractors and the like and I stayed in touch with them. When I decided to go out on my own I used those same contacts to help me get off to a good start.

My suggestion is to do some market research and see what the other hvac companies in your area have to offer and find something that you can market your business for that the others dont have or that you do better.

"You are the captin or your own ship. Rather it sinks or sails is entirely up to you."

true-blue

02-09-2007, 09:26 PM

I have been self employed for over twenty years, as i am now 53 am losing interest in this feild, used to do domestic refrigeration, best thing I ever did was discontinue it. Now I just handle air conditioning, for home owners and light commercial jobs, also handle commercial refrigeration.
I love the job, just getting tired of it and need new challenge.
It is very interesting reading about and seeing the jobs you fellows get over there in the states things are different here in Oz.
Mostly install wall mounted split systems, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Daikin and Hitachi.

luskys a/c

02-09-2007, 10:44 PM

dngtig

02-09-2007, 11:39 PM

Don't do it if you don't have the support at home. I have been in business going on 8 years and could not have done it without the support of my wife. Does wife have income and insurance? That would help till you get established. Then work your @#$ off.

cybercontadino

02-10-2007, 02:38 PM

Medical insurance is a big piece of my overhead. I pay about 800 a month for a family plan, an HMO with50% prescription.
The paperwork is another part of the workload to consider.
The wife handles the billing and keeps the records. It may not take a large block of time at any one sitting, but you have to be able to pay the bills before they come due. I also spend about 3 hours a week pricing out my invoices.
Of course I don't pay my wife up front, so it actually costs more than hiring someone : )
John

cybercontadino

02-10-2007, 02:53 PM

CW , You asked about a program or device which would scan signitures from an invoice...
Came across someone at a kiosk in a mall selling something called the "Scanalizer". It is a mini scanner which can scan an invoice and save it as a jpeg and also extract the data into a computer program such as Excell. I have used the OCR( optical character recognition) feature of my basic scanner and it worked well. I did have to do some minor editing.
Wondering how this scanalizer really performs. The guy selling them was just watching the store and couldn't get it to work on my invoice. I would have paid the 200 $ if it could extract just the store number, date,labor ,parts and sales tax.
Anyone else familiar with this thing. I'll try to get back to that mall when the guy who knows what he is doing is there and report back. John

citywide service

02-11-2007, 02:03 PM

I went and looked at that site and product here: http://www.neatreceipts.com/index.asp and it looked fine except that it actually scanned the document I already had into the computer where I was looking for something to actually take the signature right on the pocket pc device.

I can see alot of areas where that device could be useful in a mobile office but at home it is just another scanner.

Been doing alot of PM for the Sonics here in town this week; No one has done it for years unless something broke down! Now they were bought out by a larger company and they insist on a regular maint. schedule! Now I will have some "built in" income every month so looking forward to that! I am glad this company bought them out as well because they pay the end of every month like clockwork...can't beat that!:D

Later,

CW.

cybercontadino

02-11-2007, 03:31 PM

Looks like you have a good solid base to build on with them.
Watch out. Before you know it you'll be swamped!
That Scanalizer is not really "mobile" because it is powered through a USB, so you would need a computer,as I understand it. Even so, if you scanned them at home you would have a picture of the receipt for future billing and a database of the relevent info from the invoice.
John

FurnacePro

02-11-2007, 05:31 PM

sorry double posted somehow:cool:

FurnacePro

02-11-2007, 05:34 PM

citywide service

02-11-2007, 10:32 PM

CW,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're looking for a program to collect a signature from the customer on the handheld and then transfer that to the PC right? Like you see on the supermarket pos systems.

I think I have some information on software like that in my office somewhere. I'll look for it and post it.

Basically yes, I have a Dell Axim Pocket PC which I would like to be able to have the customer "sign" an invoice on the Pocket PC and then I would fax the invoices to them or print them from the truck. I would love to do the paperless office thing but I can't afford to buy a new tablet PC yet so will have to go this route for now.

Thanks,

CW.

FurnacePro

02-12-2007, 01:20 AM

doughoyobx

02-12-2007, 10:27 PM

Ive been in the trade for 13 years now and out on my own for 1.5 years . I offer comerical refrigeration and cfse service and have more work than i should take on at any giving time. My busiest week last summer i billed 120 hours!

onegdcountryboy

02-13-2007, 01:11 AM

I am also self employed and it is just me and my partner who are in the field. We never expected to be this busy especially this time of year. If you are that busy hire some guys I hired my first yesterday and he called off today!:eek:

citywide service

02-13-2007, 01:45 AM

http://www.lowfatsoftware.com/feature_comparison.htm

Lowfatsoftware. Comes in a standard version or quickbooks version.

Allows for an invoice to be filled out, previewed by customer and signed/dated on-site.

Hope this helps

FP

Well guys, this looks very much like the answer I was looking for. Now all I have to do is get the program and the printer and see how it works out in the truck. I won't be able to do this until next month as I just had the motor in the service truck go out and am having to replace it - $OUCH$!

Thanks for all your help!

CW.

epacertified

02-14-2007, 02:28 PM

Hey CW my email address is in my profile. John
I,m in Northern Jersey (exit 16w)
My e-mail should be in my Profile.
Lets Chat!

epacertified

02-14-2007, 02:29 PM

timjimbob

02-19-2007, 09:37 AM

I've been my own boss for 26 years. Love the challenge. Evening calls are what puts you ahead of the big companies. May be a problem, but if it is your neighborhood-no big deal.
Get to know your local rest. owner and real estate company. Good, on time work spreads like wildfire. Buy your supplier lunch-and leave astack of business cards. Pretty soon you will be subing installs.

Downside- No pays. Buy a credit card machine. Sells big equipment.

epacertified

02-19-2007, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=timjimbob;1380984] Evening calls are what puts you ahead of the big companies. May be a problem, but if it is your neighborhood-no big deal.

I have come up with a Phrase that I seem To use alot Lately
America Has turned into the house of Coach potatos"
Everyone wants to work MON-FRI 9am-5pm
Everyone wants Weekends off!
If you make yourself available when Fat America is RELAXING you will be succesfull
( ITs when I make the most)
I bend with the Times and get paid for it!

cybercontadino

02-19-2007, 04:12 PM

I agree. You have to be flexible with your work hours when your on your own. When I start at 630am though there ain't much energy left after 4pm. Most weeks I will work Saturdays, because morning time is when I can get more done.

roger78073

02-20-2007, 06:16 PM

jeez guys all this sounds awesome as far as being busy etc...I guess the first thing I gotta do is get EPA cetified...I'm 42 years old and changing careers..the Army deployments were too much....but I jus got to get motivated in changing careers...I guess the facing of going broke should be good motivation...but anyway Thanks for your outstanding comments

FurnacePro

03-18-2007, 05:28 AM

I am now my own boss. Been fighting it for years, finally just put the blindfold on and ran out in the street.

It was probably the most nerve wrecking thing I've ever done, but I had my first three contracts before I even got my contractors license submitted.

I must say it feels great, even though I still have yet to make this months bills:confused:

Really kewl thing is I know some cut and paste hvac contractors from out-of-area that have about 250 homes where I live. They don't have any service techs to cover their work, so they call me.... hey it's a start. AC season is just around the corner..... I hope!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

epacertified

03-18-2007, 07:56 AM

Never but Never,
let a contractor tell you he will give you the check for the last Job
After you start the next Job.
Slowely But Surely they get so far in front that there is no way to ever catch up!

Like my Doctor says PAY FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
ANd I cant see you for two weeks(Long enough for the check to clear)

iowapmt

03-18-2007, 01:47 PM

Been there done that. Not worth it. Ended up slapping a lein on most of the "jobs" because the check in the mail never came.

Wheelbaron

03-18-2007, 05:09 PM

Well I guess I should post here. I am on my own part time, I have my own business name, phone add, web site, and a few residential customers so far. I also work full time for a large Ice co. and do all their service work in south east Wisconsin. I a hope to be completely on my own in one to two years. Also I aim to get a contract with my current employer to service all the same stuff I am doing for them now, but not have to move around large freezers and repaint them and all that crap. :)
I do just about anything right now, just to get my foot in the door. I already know all the parts houses and sales reps around here, so that helps. So I guess you could say that I am wading into the pool slowly, one toe at a time.:D

This web site is very cool, I have it as my home page...lol

nickellhead

03-18-2007, 06:59 PM

graf

how do you manage to run your own part time business and work full time with another company

and also do you have to have a state license for your own business

citywide service

03-18-2007, 08:04 PM

Well guys it's been a while since posted on this subject so just wanted to update.

I have been doing the PM's and repairs for the local Sonics but that is about it. I have been opening doors and introducing myself all over town and in the surrounding communities but to no avail. There are 5 other companies in town doing the same or very similar things and there seems to be a wall I have to get over or knock down to get anywhere.

I don't know how to get my foot in the door with these customers! I don't want to drop my price but that seems to be the only thing that MIGHT do the trick!

There is a company around here who charges 90 an hour, one at 60 and the rest of us are at 55.

My idea is this: I charge 55p/hr but it's a straight 55 - no overtime. My motto when they ask price is "55 - all the time".

I don't charge a S/C or truck fee other than the 1hr minimum and there is no overtime charges after 5pm or on the weekends. I have been considering adding a fuel surcharge now that gas has gotten out of hand, what do you think? You'd think I would have people calling all the time but the phone just isn't ringing unless it's sonic. I just don't understand it!

Even though I have heard pros and cons on Yellow pages adds I think I will go into debt next year (if I am still around) for a 1/2 page add and hope that does the trick.

The one thing I am going to do in the next few weeks is get shirts made up with my business name and number on the back; I am wasting alot of advertising space there and I can double or triple my advertising exposure. Aside from the vehicle lettering and business cards that's the only other thing I can afford to do! I am considering adding the phrase "no overtime charges" to my vehicle lettering though - what do you think?

How do you guys deal with competition in your area? I live in a town of around 60k and we are the largest town in a 75 mile radius! I don't mind going out of town but I would like to get a "base" in my own town first and then work outward!

When you guys get a "new customer" do you make them sign a "contract" of some kind and if so what is it? what does it say? can I see one? I have seen mention on this board of contracts but was afraid to ask and look dumb since I have or don't do this.

Thanks for getting to the end of this long post!

CW.

slimwoodie

03-18-2007, 08:40 PM

in a town that small ....

dont buy an AD ....!!!:eek:

budgetman

03-18-2007, 10:03 PM

I admire anybody going out on their own to sell themselves! I am doing part-time work and working a full time job at a hospital and wish I could take that leap but the Health insurance is holding me back along with not knowing if business will come in soon or not?? I have no kids but the wife is not liking the Idea of me starting out when she wants to start a family and knows that the first couple years are long long hours. What do I do??? I need some advice......:(
starting a business is very time consuming and it takes about a good five years to build a good one. So if you want to start a business than the 5 years to start a family. I started out in 1998 and its been hard to handle both family and an a/c business. also really need to have about 1 year of wages saved for hard times.

Wheelbaron

03-19-2007, 08:10 PM

graf

how do you manage to run your own part time business and work full time with another company

and also do you have to have a state license for your own business

Ok First, it is still very part time for me, I am still in the building stages of my business. I have a couple of customers, but not much, and no service contracts so far, just repairs. I am EPA and state licensed, I have a solicitors license for where I live so I can post fliers door to door. I am listed in the two major phone books. I have the shirts, sweatshirts, and jacket, web site, logo, decals on the service van, custom invoices, business cards... the whole nine yards.
I told the company that I work for (as their only service tec. in this state now.), that I would stay on with them for at least one more summer. In return they let me take time off when ever I need to, and are very flexible with my hours.
I am a single dad, and right now I have to take things one step at a time you know. Next year I plan to put together a good proposal and go to the bank with an established record, and get a loan. At that point I will go full time, and cross my fingers. :D Wish me luck.

nickellhead

03-20-2007, 10:45 PM

Ok First, it is still very part time for me, I am still in the building stages of my business. I have a couple of customers, but not much, and no service contracts so far, just repairs. I am EPA and state licensed, I have a solicitors license for where I live so I can post fliers door to door. I am listed in the two major phone books. I have the shirts, sweatshirts, and jacket, web site, logo, decals on the service van, custom invoices, business cards... the whole nine yards.
I told the company that I work for (as their only service tec. in this state now.), that I would stay on with them for at least one more summer. In return they let me take time off when ever I need to, and are very flexible with my hours.
I am a single dad, and right now I have to take things one step at a time you know. Next year I plan to put together a good proposal and go to the bank with an established record, and get a loan. At that point I will go full time, and cross my fingers. :D Wish me luck.

In the state of Ohio you have to have a state license to run a business at least thats what I keep hearing but anyway I guess I'm in the same boat you're in I work full time but would like to start a businees but I'm trying to find the right approach to it if anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it

I thought about going door to door and offering seasonal checkouts but like I said I think you have to have a state license

And also what would be a great approach to build a customer base :D

Makinice

03-20-2007, 11:05 PM

In the state of Ohio you have to have a state license to run a business at least thats what I keep hearing but anyway I guess I'm in the same boat you're in I work full time but would like to start a businees but I'm trying to find the right approach to it if anyone could help I would greatly appreciate it

I thought about going door to door and offering seasonal checkouts but like I said I think you have to have a state license

And also what would be a great approach to build a customer base :D

Sorry, but i have not read all the reply's

What type of business are you looking for Commercial or Residential?

Wheelbaron

03-21-2007, 09:43 PM

OK first, I want to thank you all for this site. That comment about state licensing got me to wondering if there was anything that I might be missing. So I set out to find out, and finally I got some answers by talking to the Dept of Commerce. I spent most of today filling out forms and paying this fee and that registration (Every body wants your money, even if you aren't making any). So here is the check list they sent me that was most helpful, keep in mind that this is for Wisconsin, and the links will be for Wisconsin, but I am sure that most states are sort of the same on the basics. So you will have to check for things like this in your area.
https://secure.wisconsinsbdc.org/oc/docs/startup_packet_madison.pdf

Makes you understand why we have to charge so much for our services...

nickellhead

03-21-2007, 10:23 PM

makin ice
I would like to start in residential and light commercial

citywide service

03-22-2007, 12:35 AM

When I went to get my licenses and insurance I found that I just needed a lic. to use refrigerant (they didn't even ask to see my card!!) a city lic. which cost me $25, and insurance which ended up costing me 615 a yr!

That's it and I was in business! so lets run this down:

25.00 CITY LIC.
615.00 INSURANCE
30.00 BUS. CARDS
20.00 INVIOCES (office max)
60.00 FILE CAB/FOLDERS
100.00 VEHICLE LETTERING

My total investment was $850.

I already had the vehicle so I was ready to go for less than a grand and I did that in small steps! I have NO ADVERTISING other than my vehicle and the shirts I am having made up soon because I could not afford the yellow pages this year (2500!), but next year...gonna probably go 1/2 page! That's if I am still in business next year. It's been rough; I am not getting accounts for some reason and it's not because I am sitting on my butt! I go and meet and greet new prospective business's, introduce myself and my business, leave a card and tell them if there is anything I can do for them not to hesitate to give me a call but to date, no calls...I can't figure it out.

This has been just my .02, opinion, and experience.

CW.

epacertified

03-22-2007, 12:45 AM

100.00 VEHICLE LETTERING

My total investment was $850.

This has been just my .02, opinion, and experience.

CW.[/QUOTE]
$100.00 lettering ?
I need to see that
You invested your tools, your truck, and your sweat What value do you put on that?

Wheelbaron

03-23-2007, 11:08 PM

Hell I think I have about $10,000 or so in so far. That is counting the Van and tools. $800 or so a year for insurance. $250 in uniforms, (and as a result I got some work from the guy who made them up for me :D ). Truck lettering was about $100. Oh well it is the price you gotta pay if you want to make it...

citywide service

03-28-2007, 03:47 PM

100.00 VEHICLE LETTERING

My total investment was $850.

This has been just my .02, opinion, and experience.

CW.
$100.00 lettering ?
I need to see that
You invested your tools, your truck, and your sweat What value do you put on that?[/QUOTE]

EPA:

Yes I did invest in the tools but that was over a long period of time. Many of the tools I have I have had for years as would be the case for most techs so I did not count that as an expense, but your right - if I did have to purchase those tools my initial investment would have been MUCH HIGHER!

I use my 1995 Jeep Cherokee (not the grand) as my service vehicle...I already owned it and I could use it for the time being. My goal is to have a van this summer if all goes well but at the moment I gotta do what I gotta do to bring in the money.

I went to a local shop who does my grafix work and the cost was actually $97 and some change! There is serious competition here in the lettering market so you gotta shop around for the best deal and believe me they are out there.

Hope this clears it up a bit from me earlier post.

CW.

FurnacePro

03-28-2007, 08:27 PM

Hmm,

I don't know about ya'all, but when I jumped into the cesspool of business ownership I had to get a little more than a city license. Just like Wheelbaron, I had a school of sharks grabbing at very dollar they could get their hands on. Between L&I lic registration, state lic, city lic, bond & insurance, vehicle and a few larger tools, ie: brazing kit, vac pump, scale (these were provided by my previous employers), I am into this commitment about 12K and that was before I could legally talk to anyone without fear of a $1000 fine.

Fortunately, I have worked in this area for many years, and 2 contractors picked me up on-the-spot. It's new construction HVAC and hearth/gas piping but I do feel really fortunate to have that this close to the start gate. I just finished the web site, truck will be lettered soon and everything else is going well.

I'm not sure I could have done it without the contractor relationships I've built over the years to get me started. I didn't take out a business loan to get started, so I am hand-to-mouthing it, crossing my fingers and jumping!

Honestly, these 2 contracts, while not making me rich, will provide me with a slightly higher income than I made working for someone else and only take up about 16 hours a week. I'm hoping that I can use the spare time to build a service and retro-fit clientel.

Oh ya, and I cant forget how important it is that my 3 children (11-12-13yrs) and my wife support me in this whole fiasco... I really put them out on a limb to do this, not to mention I "pinky-promised" my 11yr old that we would look at putting a hot-tub on the back deck for Christmas..... I better get back to work!

FurnacePro

03-28-2007, 08:36 PM

Has anyone here ever worked with 1-800-contractor before?

Wheelbaron

03-28-2007, 10:12 PM

Humm, looks interesting, I may try it. The worst case is you loose $99.00. The only thing is you would have to offset the referral fee some how. If I do I will post my findings on here somewhere.
I just bid out a $8000.00 job, lol. If I get it( I don't really think I will), I will have to find a way to get the cash or credit to get the parts.:) I am trying to get one or two maintenance contracts with some small chains, Bread and butter stuff. So far I have been getting boiler work, probably because no one else wants to do it.:cool: