Freak of Nature

[engineerdave]

Caught "Meet the Press" this morning. Listened to Senator Lieberman. A Liberal most assuredly NOT in favor of cowardice. Must be a freak of nature.:D :D :D :D

[acmanko]

If not for liberals, you'd be bowing to a king

[tinknocker44]

If not for liberals, you'd be bowing to a king

Or speaking German.

[jrbenny]

Could either of you explain those comments? I'm just curious to your though process here. Thanks!

[acmanko]

The American Revolution was an extremely Liberal Idea . Free Men ruled by nobody was and is a Liberal Idea.

[tinknocker44]

Could either of you explain those comments? I'm just curious to your though process here. Thanks!


Who you asking? manko and I?

[tinknocker44]

How come the mod is not questioning daves thought process? hmmm. Interesting. I see a pattern.

[jrbenny]

The American Revolution was an extremely Liberal Idea . Free Men ruled by nobody was and is a Liberal Idea.
I can follow that.

[jrbenny]

How come the mod is not questioning daves thought process? hmmm. Interesting. I see a pattern.
I am a member of this site, too.

It was a simple question. Feel free to not answer.

[chillbilly]

The American Revolution was an extremely Liberal Idea . Free Men ruled by nobody was and is a Liberal Idea.


One could argue conversely that The American Revolution was the result of extremely liberal ideas about how much taxation and burden the English Colonies in America should have had to bear.

I do see legitimacy in acmanko's premise though, when it is used in the context of being a socially progressive reform.

[chillbilly]

How come the mod is not questioning daves thought process? hmmm. Interesting. I see a pattern.

You would see a pattern.

[engineerdave]

My thought process: Years ago I was a registered, voting Democrat. As the years passed, I began to notice patterns of retreat and entitlement I was not at all comfortable supporting.

Then the Reagan Administration slapped us all. Hard. Some of us learned from that ass-whipping. The concept of seeking out solutions was like a breath of fresh air. Even when some of those 'solutions' eventually failed. At least an attempt had been made.

Now I see Senator Lieberman. Certainly NOT a Reagan, yet also a man not afraid. While I disagree with much he supports, I admire the man's courage of conviction. His willingness to act. While the bulk of his Party are still placing blame, he's actually trying to solve problems. There may be a lesson in there somewhere.....

[chillbilly]

My thought process: Years ago I was a registered, voting Democrat. As the years passed, I beagan to notice patterns of retreat and entitlement I was not at all comfortable supporting.

Then the Reagan Administration slapped us all. Hard. Some of us learned from that ass-whipping. The concept of seeking out solutions was like a breath of fresh air. Even when some of those 'solutions' eventually failed. At least an attempt had been made.

Now I see Senator Lieberman. Certainly NOT a Reagan, yet also a man not afraid. While I disagree with much he supports, I admire the man's courage of conviction. His willingness to act. While the bulk of his Party are still placing blame, he's actually trying to solve problems. There may be a lesson in there somewhere.....



That's a good analogy dave. You and I must have shared the same experiences with Reagan, although I shudder to admit I was a dem too.:confused:
I respect guys like Liebermann who put the considerations of their conscience and constituency ahead of popular opinion polls and elections.

[acmanko]

Hmm. I didn't know engineers thought.:D

[bootlen]

That's a good analogy dave. You and I must have shared the same experiences with Reagan, although I shudder to admit I was a dem too.:confused:
I respect guys like Liebermann who put the considerations of their conscience and constituency ahead of popular opinion polls and elections.

Not always. When he was running for the VP slot with Algore, he turned from his Judaic beliefs to announce in favor of being pro-abortion. He bears watching.

[engineerdave]

Fair enough.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I think I would call the American Revolution more progressive than liberal.

Lets go back and look at one view of history:

In old England (pre Columbus), there was a caste system. You were born into a family and your fate in life had already been decided due to your birth. Example: If you were born into a working class family, you were not allowed to seek an education and better yourself.

Also, the Anglican Church (a spin off of the Catholic faith) was the state religion. The church (which was sanctioned by the state and just as crooked as most governments) ruled through Spiritual fear (remember the 'sale of indulgences'); and the government and the church 'worked' together to 'accomplish' their 'goals' (this working towards goals was IMO not a lot different than the activism we see in special interest groups today, except for the totality of control the church/state had over the public).

You see, there was not a middle class back then. There were a few % of elites, and ALL the rest were poor.

SOOO: There was this opportunity to go to this new land where folks could have the freedom to live their lives as they chose. Sounds more like escaping than liberal (read government takes care of me) thinking.

Then look what happened: someone figured out they could take unfair advantage of the colonies and make huge profits. (Sound familiar: Kinda like the big HVAC contractors that rip off the elderly and do shoddy work). And guess what: The colonists got tired of being $$$ raped. So they revolted and formed a country based on the premise of every man being free to live their lives as they choose.

Hmmm, sounds more like progressive thinking from a society of folks that were not afraid to get out there and 'just do it'.

[bootlen]

Ac lives in Forney, TX, GATech. All that's over his head.

[tinknocker44]

Watch this pug straighten out holy joe.


http://connecticutblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/chuck-hagel-*****slaps-lieberman-over.html

[bootlen]

Watch this pug straighten out holy joe.


http://connecticutblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/chuck-hagel-*****slaps-lieberman-over.html

That's the most intelligent thing you ever posted. "Not found"

[jrbenny]

Bad link, tk44.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Ac lives in Forney, TX, GATech. All that's over his head.

Hey Boot,

Not sure where Forney is in Texas, and I should know because I grew up in Houston.

Regardless of where he grew up or lives, How about lets give him a chance to learn and grow. You never know who will figure out something... :)

[bootlen]

Hey Boot,

Not sure where Forney is in Texas, and I should know because I grew up in Houston.

Regardless of where he grew up or lives, How about lets give him a chance to learn and grow. You never know who will figure out something... :)

Bwaaaaahahahahahaha! We're talkin' ACMANKO here. :eek: :rolleyes:

Hey Robo. How would you respond to GATech's post? :D

[tinknocker44]

lets try this one

http://www.crooksandliars.com/category/the-senate/joe-lieberman/

[bootlen]

So Hagel claims that Muslim extremists are not the problem in Iraq. Is that your point? I really don't think the propblem is Brownie Scout Troop 52.

[tinknocker44]

So Hagel claims that Muslim extremists are not the problem in Iraq. Is that your point? I really don't think the propblem is Brownie Scout Troop 52.

You dont comprehend at all do you? I dont think you watched the vid with that dumb of an answer.

[bootlen]

You dont comprehend at all do you? I dont think you watched the vid with that dumb of an answer.

Oh. So the reporter got his signals mixed for the written article. Is that it?

[tinknocker44]

Brownie Scout Troop 52


Dumbyas hiding spot during nam:rolleyes:

[tinknocker44]

Oh. So the reporter got his signals mixed for the written article. Is that it?

I was right.

[bootlen]

I was right.

Answer the question. Did the reporter get it wrong for the written article?

[engineerdave]

I watched the show. Didn't just selectively google quotes from it. I stand by my opinion that the man has cojones. Even though his fellow dems are turning on him like vultures. Kinda like some republicans are doing to Bush.

[bootlen]

While you come up with some irrelevant answer, I have things to do. Back in about 3 hours.

Don't hurt ya self with all that thinkin' and googlin'.

[tinknocker44]

While you come up with some irrelevant answer, I have things to do. Back in about 3 hours.

Don't hurt ya self with all that thinkin' and googlin'.

Take your time. I'm not going to argue with a guy who is an apologist and doesnt want to see what the real problem is. Hagel nails it. Stay the course with 20,000 extra troops is stupid and will not correct the problem. Dumbya is getting Americans killed for his ego. And you're fine with it.

[tinknocker44]

I watched the show. Didn't just selectively google quotes from it. I stand by my opinion that the man has cojones. Even though his fellow dems are turning on him like vultures. Kinda like some republicans are doing to Bush.

There's a difference between cojones and stupidity. The 2 top generals in Iraq (before dumbya got rid of them for not lying) say extra troops will not quell the violence. But hey, lets listen to idiologues who havent been right about anything. Cowards who hid when it was their turn but boy do they have cojones with someone elses life. Now go draw something up and I'll fix it in the field.

[Carnak]

I think I would call the American Revolution more progressive than liberal.

Lets go back and look at one view of history:

In old England (pre Columbus), there was a caste system. You were born into a family and your fate in life had already been decided due to your birth. Example: If you were born into a working class family, you were not allowed to seek an education and better yourself.

Also, the Anglican Church (a spin off of the Catholic faith) was the state religion. The church (which was sanctioned by the state and just as crooked as most governments) ruled through Spiritual fear (remember the 'sale of indulgences'); and the government and the church 'worked' together to 'accomplish' their 'goals' (this working towards goals was IMO not a lot different than the activism we see in special interest groups today, except for the totality of control the church/state had over the public).

You see, there was not a middle class back then. There were a few % of elites, and ALL the rest were poor.

SOOO: There was this opportunity to go to this new land where folks could have the freedom to live their lives as they chose. Sounds more like escaping than liberal (read government takes care of me) thinking.

Then look what happened: someone figured out they could take unfair advantage of the colonies and make huge profits. (Sound familiar: Kinda like the big HVAC contractors that rip off the elderly and do shoddy work). And guess what: The colonists got tired of being $$$ raped. So they revolted and formed a country based on the premise of every man being free to live their lives as they choose.

Hmmm, sounds more like progressive thinking from a society of folks that were not afraid to get out there and 'just do it'.

Caste sounds like hindus, class system still exists today to an extent, but on both sides of the Atlantic.

Catholiscim. Was quite a Church based in Ireland at one time, then for political reasons, England aligned itself with Rome.

Henry VIII severed ties with Rome as he was not granted a divorce. Luther started the commotion against Indulgences a little before that and at one time the Pope called Henry VIII the Defender of the Faith as he was critical of Luther.

Long before there was an American Revolution, many Catholic Ceremonies were elimnated and indulgences were long gone in England. It was the Church of England, but there were other protestant movements springing up in England. North America allowed religious freedom for Catholics (Maryland), Quakers and the witch burning Puritans. Catholics were about the most persecuted religion in England.

George Washington was Episcopalian aka Anglican, Church of England, most likely a few others back then were too.

The rich get richer everywhere, just the average schmoe has a better chance now as opposed to then.

[engineerdave]

Is that Lieberman's history? Was he a draft dodger? I knew that about Clinton, was unaware of that about Lieberman. My opinion of the man may change.

On a sidebar note, when you say "draw something up" so you can "fix it in the field" I assume you think I'm an Engineer. Honest mistake due to my log-on.

Back when I was first learning this trade, I was a Maintenance Engineer for a fish processing company in Alaska. The girls on the Slime Line called me (usually preceded by expletives and/or fond memories of the night before:) ),
Engineerdave. One word, not so good english.

I am not an engineer, just a service tech in the feild.

[acmanko]

Hey Boot,

Not sure where Forney is in Texas, and I should know because I grew up in Houston.

Regardless of where he grew up or lives, How about lets give him a chance to learn and grow. You never know who will figure out something... :) Progressive and liberal go together , maybe it's your head under water

[chillbilly]

Not always. He bears watching.

Don't they all:p


http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Joseph_Lieberman_Abortion.htm

[ga-hvac-tech]

Progressive and liberal go together , maybe it's your head under water

Respectfully I disagree. There are a lot of progressive conservatives out there, many of my friends fit into that mould. And sometimes I have to temper them because they get to wound up on their ideals... :rolleyes:

But then you and I may have different views of the word liberal. And lets not go citing a dictionary. If you were to trace the meaning of political words over decades, you might find that the written deffinition changes.

Which is part of my deffinition: A true conservative (not a neo-con; there are few true conservatives today; BTW--IMO the occupant of the white house is NOT a true conservative) understands and respects traditional values. A liberal lives on a cloud of emotion.

So there, do we do have a difference of opinion. How about lets be thankful that we live in a country where we can do that publicly w/out fearing for our lives (and there are lots of places like that in this world today).

Truth be known, I am more of a moderate by current deffinitions. I think both parties are full of phony folks that use public office for their own power base, and in reality have no real interest in the public other than to lie to them to gain more power.

[chillbilly]

acmanko thinks that attaching the word 'progressive' to the word 'liberal' somehow lends some credibility to all liberal ideas.

It doesn't.

Sounds good though.

[bootlen]

Take your time. I'm not going to argue with a guy who is an apologist and doesnt want to see what the real problem is. Hagel nails it. Stay the course with 20,000 extra troops is stupid and will not correct the problem. Dumbya is getting Americans killed for his ego. And you're fine with it.

Yep. Irrelevant answer. Just as I expected.

And thanks. I took my time. Gave you some extra of which you did not take advantage to do better.

Predictable.

[acmanko]

acmanko thinks that attaching the word 'progressive' to the word 'liberal' somehow lends some credibility to all liberal ideas.

It doesn't.

Sounds good though.I can remember when Jerry Garcia and :cool: the Grateful Dead were considered progressive

[glennac]

Or speaking German.

I’d rather be speaking German than Spanish.:eek: Thanks to liberalism that’s what we are heading toward nowadays with their open boarder philosophy. At least the Germans are organized, efficient, cultured, maintain a high standard of living and have integrity.:cool:

[dw1]

Glen, please excuse my cut and paste.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/37023-german-unemployment-revised-5-2-million-6-2-million.html
2 highlights
"BERLIN - The German government on Friday struggled to contain fallout after a damaging admission by the Federal Labour Office chief that the country's real jobless rate is far higher than official figures show.
I didn't have the courage to change the well-rehearsed ritual and name the 6.5 million figure," said Frank-Juergen Weise, head of the Federal Labour Office, according to media reports."
"Germany's official jobless rate is 5.2 million, or 12.5 percent. The 'ritual', which Weise mentioned, is his monthly press conference at the Office's headquarters in Nuremberg to present official jobs data."
Posted 4-12-2005
Another link https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/gm.html
"Economy - overview:
Germany's affluent and technologically powerful economy - the fifth largest in the world - has become one of the slowest growing economies in the euro zone. A quick turnaround is not in the offing in the foreseeable future...Germany's aging population, combined with high unemployment, has pushed social security outlays to a level exceeding contributions from workers. Structural rigidities in the labor market - including strict regulations on laying off workers and the setting of wages on a national basis - have made unemployment a chronic problem...In the short run, however, the fall in government revenues and the rise in expenditures have raised the deficit above the EU's 3% debt limit."

I don't know that I'd start taking German lessons quite yet. :)

[tinknocker44]

I’d rather be speaking German than Spanish.:eek: Thanks to liberalism that’s what we are heading toward nowadays with their open boarder philosophy. At least the Germans are organized, efficient, cultured, maintain a high standard of living and have integrity.:cool:

Thanks to the Dems kicking Hitlers butt. Being a Dumbya fan I'm sure you would of been routing for Hitler too.

[bootlen]

Thanks to the Dems kicking Hitlers butt. Being a Dumbya fan I'm sure you would of been routing for Hitler too.

Wrong. All the dems were in DC. All the repubs were in the battlefield.

[Carnak]

Germany is having a hell of a time getting the former East Germany caught up.

[RoBoTeq]

Bad link, tk44.

Yes he is.

[RoBoTeq]

Bwaaaaahahahahahaha! We're talkin' ACMANKO here. :eek: :rolleyes:

Hey Robo. How would you respond to GATech's post? :D

Anyone can see the light, so I'm not going to comment:rolleyes:

[RoBoTeq]

Personally, I detest the so called liberal vs conservative battles. Whether we like it or not, most of us have tendencies toward both liberal and conservative ideas. It is when we reject one or the other that we become the idiots such as several of here have become.

I like most of Leiberman's politics and I too believe he has the guts as well as the self respect to be a good national leader. I also have issues with Leiberman in his being a bit flip-floppy about his theological convictions if they get in the way of his getting further in politics.

This may be a terrible way to judge whether I would vote for a politician or not, but honestly, I just don't think I could vote for a man who sounds like ALF's landlord. Just listening to Joe Leiberman talk makes my teeth itch. What he says may be good, solid thinking, but it always sounds like he's whining.

[oloenneker]

Wrong. All the dems were in DC. All the repubs were in the battlefield.

I guess that is what is wrong with the last few catastrophic wars the US has endeavoured into..(Vietnam and Iraq) Republicans where in office while the Dems where on the battlefield.

[oloenneker]

What he says may be good, solid thinking, but it always sounds like he's whining.

Thats because he is actually whining...


I don't trust him. He is a fence sitter. A best of the worst in what we hate about politicians. He'll do anything, and say anything in order to stay in office, and get his lobby money.

[bootlen]

I guess that is what is wrong with the last few catastrophic wars the US has endeavoured into..(Vietnam and Iraq) Republicans where in office while the Dems where on the battlefield.

Talk about posting before thinking, the above is your gaff.

JFK/LBJ started/perpetuated VN. RMN was left to deal with it.

The WJC was derelict in his responsibility and GWB was left to deal with it.

[oloenneker]

Talk about posting before thinking, the above is your gaff.

It wasactually a test to see how much you actually comprehend what is actually written in here.


JFK/LBJ started/perpetuated VN. RMN was left to deal with it. and in standard Republican form, made it worse, and eventually had to "cut and run"...


The WJC was derelict in his responsibility and GWB was left to deal with it.

Bwahahhaha... Yeah, thats the ticket. And as per usual Republican form, blame someone else for your screw ups.

Bootsie, it never amazes me how hook line and sinker the snake oil sales man has got you all convinced by the rotten sales speil...

You're a furnace salesman, aren't you?

[geerair]

JFK/LBJ started/perpetuated VN. RMN was left to deal with it.Actually it was Ike the Republican who started it.


The WJC was derelict in his responsibility and GWB was left to deal with itBawhahahahahahaha.

Boots forgot about the August PDB which Bush ignored because he was so concerned with playing golf on one of his record setting vacations.


And yeah. too bad the Chimp wasn't President in 1941. He would have attacked Monaco after the Pearl Harbor bombing. :p :p :p

[oloenneker]

Actually it was Ike the Republican who started it.

Dang, I almost completely forgot about that...


Bawhahahahahahaha.

Boots forgot about the August PDB which Bush ignored because he was so concerned with playing golf on one of his record setting vacations.


Boots forgets all sorts of stuff, thats why they had to make "special" provisions for him when he was drafted...


And yeah. too bad the Chimp wasn't President in 1941. He would have attacked Monaco after the Pearl Harbor bombing. :p :p :p

:D :D :D

[geerair]

Boots forets all sorts of stuff, thats why they had to make "special" provisions for him when he was drafted...:D :D :D :D

[bootlen]

Dang, I almost completely forgot about that...
Boots forgets all sorts of stuff, thats why they had to make "special" provisions for him when he was drafted...

:D :D :D

Ignorance abounds.

I wasn't drafted.

[chillbilly]

Ignorance abounds.

I wasn't drafted.


Ignorance indeed.

wanker "forgot" all about Ike and he was giving you a test too.:D :D :D :D









Double-dutch treat of dummy cream with a sprinkle of doo-doo on top.

[glennac]

Lbj started it and put handculfs on the Army and big time on the airforce. Everyone got pissed off with the war because we were fighting not to win but to "wear out the NVA". Dems controlled Congress and the WH. Nixon defeated Hubert Humphree and the Dems in Congress voted to cut all spending for the war. We couldn't even supply the ARVN's with the ammo and guns to fight the commies with. Nixon wanted to win unlike LBJ but he wasn't given money to do it from the dem controlled congress. Anyhow the dems made sure we lost the war along with Cambodia and Laos. Several million died as a result and Americans lives were wasted for nothing. That's the whole complete story. :( :(

[chillbilly]

Lbj started it and put handculfs on the Army and big time on the airforce. Everyone got pissed off with the war because we were fighting not to win but to "wear out the NVA". Dems controlled Congress and the WH. Nixon defeated Hubert Humphree and the Dems in Congress voted to cut all spending for the war. We couldn't even supply the ARVN's with the ammo and guns to fight the commies with. Nixon wanted to win unlike LBJ but he wasn't given money to do it from the dem controlled congress. Anyhow the dems made sure we lost the war along with Cambodia and Laos. Several million died as a result and Americans lives were wasted for nothing. That's the whole complete story. :( :(



Well, I think what bootie was pointing out was that LBJ did indeed escalate the war there and it was messy when Nixon extricated our boys out of there.
Nixon did the right thing because he recognized that the war couldn't be fought by committee, just like they are trying to do with Iraq.
Greer points out that DDE started the war ,but of course, that's misleading(just like most of his posts are) because America was only there in an advisory capacity initially.
Had JFK not been assassinated, there's a good possibility that Vietnam as we know it, would be totally different.

[acmanko]

Bush is not interested in what committees say or do. Dear Leader knows whats best.

[chillbilly]

Bush is not interested in what committees say or do. Dear Leader knows whats best.


Thank you geer-anko.
"Dear leader" is charged with taking all availaible advice and making his decision for the good of the country.
That's how it works.

If you don 't like the decisions and you can't live with them, I hear Alec and Barbara have some property in Canada they're willing to sell you.....cheap too.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[oloenneker]

Bush is not interested in what committees say or do. Dear Leader knows whats best.

And thats the main problem with Dear Leader. Diplomacy falls on deaf ears when it comes to the Bush Crime Co.

It's pretty sad when you cannot even attempt to open a discussion, but would rather rush into war instead.

Even when GW's daddy attempts to rescue him, he scoffs off the advise given...

[oloenneker]

Thank you geer-anko.
"Dear leader" is charged with taking all availaible advice and making his decision for the good of the country.
That's how it works.

If you don 't like the decisions and you can't live with them, I hear Alec and Barbara have some property in Canada they're willing to sell you.....cheap too.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Aww geez, chilli, you make it sound like Bush is a Monarch or Dictator.

This is supposed to be a Democracy, isn't it? So why should we entrust this power in our national security to just one person? Why is it that it's Bush's way or no way? How un-American.

[geerair]

Bush is not interested in what committees say or do. Dear Leader knows whats best.Jesus tells him what is best. :p :p :p :rolleyes: :rolleyes: