ExxonMobil paid to mislead public

[tinknocker44]

I know global warming doesnt affect repugs or their families but....



WASHINGTON - ExxonMobil Corp. gave $16 million to 43 ideological groups between 1998 and 2005 in a coordinated effort to mislead the public by discrediting the science behind global warming, the Union of Concerned Scientists asserted Wednesday.

The report by the science-based nonprofit advocacy group mirrors similar claims by Britain's leading scientific academy. Last September, The Royal Society wrote the oil company asking it to halt support for groups that "misrepresented the science of climate change."

ExxonMobil did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the scientific advocacy group's report.

Many scientists say accumulating carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases from tailpipes and smokestacks are warming the atmosphere like a greenhouse, melting Arctic sea ice, alpine glaciers and disturbing the lives of animals and plants.

ExxonMobil lists on its Web site nearly $133 million in 2005 contributions globally, including $6.8 million for "public information and policy research" distributed to more than 140 think-tanks, universities, foundations, associations and other groups. Some of those have publicly disputed the link between greenhouse gas emissions and global warming.

But in September, the company said in response to the Royal Society that it funded groups which research "significant policy issues and promote informed discussion on issues of direct relevance to the company." It said the groups do not speak for the company.

Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists' strategy and policy director, said in a teleconference that ExxonMobil based its tactics on those of tobacco companies, spreading uncertainty by misrepresenting peer-reviewed scientific studies or cherry-picking facts.

[acmanko]

Global warming, not sure its happening, we are breaking temperature records set in the early 1900's. as for cigarettes and lung cancer;please do tell what causes the following ,cervical cancer, prostate cancer, breast cancer and colon cancer.

[tinknocker44]

Global warming, not sure its happening, we are breaking temperature records set in the early 1900's. as for cigarettes and lung cancer;please do tell what causes the following ,cervical cancer, prostate cancer, breast cancer and colon cancer.

Why?

[acmanko]

why not, if you are to have an agenda, expand your knowledge in other falacys

[tinknocker44]

why not, if you are to have an agenda, expand your knowledge in other falacys

Who says its a fallacy? Groups paid to say it is? LOL Its your post that has nothing to do with the topic. Concentrate.

[James 3528]

Union of Concerned Scientists also pressured Bill Clinton not to deploy a missile defense system no matter how well it performed. Anyone can join. Must look impressive on a resume. Their board is made up of old hippy college professors from the New England area and Berkley California as well as a actress. This junk was already posted here a few months back

The Union of Concerned Scientists was born out of a protest against the war in Vietnam. In 1969, a group of 48 faculty members at MIT -- the original “union” -- sponsored a one-day work stoppage of scientific research. A conference that coincided with the strike included appearances from such notables as Noam Chomsky (who is now recognized as a leader of the 21st Century “hate-America left”); Eric Mann, who led the 1960s terrorist Weather Underground; and Jonathan Kabat, who argued: “We want capitalism to come to an end.”

Later that year, when the founding document of the Union of Concerned Scientists was formalized, the United States’ relationship with the Soviet Union was featured even more prominently than environmental issues. Three of the five propositions in the founding document concern political questions of the Cold War -- a topic about which even the brightest physicists and biologists can claim no particular expertise.

UCS continues to involve itself in issues where scientific credentials carry little weight. For example, the group opposes urban sprawl, disputes a war in Iraq, and supports abortion. While these positions may be perfectly legitimate in themselves, they are hardly the product of “rigorous scientific analysis.”

An early petition from UCS argues: “A new ethic is required -- a new attitude towards discharging our responsibility for caring for ourselves and for the earth… This ethic must motivate a great movement.” So activists with lab coats are now presuming to instruct us on matters of ethics and politics.

Among its ethical appeals that have nothing to do with science, UCS’s approach to farming stands out. The activist group advocates “a sustainable approach, based on understanding agriculture as an ecosystem.” They call it an “agroecosystem,” and label it “holistic.” They call it “science”; the rest of us call it Zen.

At UCS, politics drives science -- not the other way around. “We undervalue our scientists and agriculturalists if we accept today’s productive, but highly polluting agriculture,” UCS claims. Of course, UCS advocates organic-only agriculture, the widespread adoption of which (at today’s anemic levels of production) would result in mass starvation. So in this instance, some form of technology will surely have to save the day, even for organic farmers. But when it comes to something UCS opposes -- like missile defense -- they argue that the technology will never work.

Respectable scientists operate by considering a question, developing a methodology to answer that question, and only then arriving at a conclusion. They disdain political interference, and go to the media only when their conclusions warrant immediate public attention. The Union of Concerned Scientists stands this process on its head. It develops a press strategy first, and then conducts politically tainted and methodologically flawed analysis. After all, it’s getting harder to convince the media that your environmental scare is more lurid than the next guy’s. You need good PR. That’s why UCS partners with slick Washington PR firms -- to get attention, whether or not there’s good science behind the sound bites.


By any real scientific yardstick, the Union of Concerned Scientists has a lousy track record. Their predictions are often laughably, and sometimes tragically, wrong. A few examples:


In 1997 UCS organized a petition that warned of “global warming” and advocated U.S. ratification of the Kyoto treaty. It was signed by 1,600 scientists, and so UCS declared that “the scientific community has reached a consensus.” But when a counter-petition that questioned this so-called “consensus” was signed by more than 17,000 other scientists, UCS declared it a “deliberate attempt to deceive the scientific community with misinformation.”

UCS invested significant resources in “a multiyear effort to protect Bacillus thuringiensis, a valuable natural pesticide, by bringing high visibility to a preliminary report on the toxic effect of transgenic [biotech] corn pollen on the Monarch Butterfly.” Unfortunately for them, both the USDA and the EPA have concluded that Bt corn is only a threat to the crop-devastating insects it’s supposed to kill.

Based, we suppose, on some “science” or other, UCS’s Margaret Mellon predicted in 1999 that American farmers would reduce their planting of genetically enhanced seeds in the year 2000, saying it “probably represents a turning point.” What happened? Just the reverse. Planting of biotech crops has increased in 2000, 2001 and 2002 -- and shows no sign of slowing down.

In 1980 UCS predicted that the earth would soon run out of fossil fuels. “It is now abundantly clear,” the group wrote, “that the world has entered a period of chronic energy shortages.” Oops! Known reserves of oil, coal and natural gas have never been higher, and show every sign of increasing.

To improve fuel efficiency, UCS argues for lighter tires on SUVs. But lighter tires are blamed -- even by Ralph’s Nader’s Public Citizen -- for tread separation. 148 deaths and more than 500 injuries were attributed to tread separation in Firestone tires alone.
UCS apparently hasn’t learned from its many, many mistakes. But if at first you don’t succeed, scare, scare again.

[tinknocker44]

tinknocker44 thats a great post and just another reason (of millions or is it trillions) to never trust the OIL COMPANYS or anyone associated with them.

Thanks Ace. Cant wait for a reliable response from the pugs.

[rob10]

EXCELLENT POST TIN!! 2 thumbs up!! :cool:

[engineerdave]

Okay. So. Oil Companies clearly are evil. They've somehow managed to make profits in their market. They're responsible for whatever weirdness iscurrently being reported by the weather chick on tv. In a few years we'll finally have proof that they created and set loose the whole HIV situation. And I'm not sure how, but I know damn well they're responsible for the scratch on my wife's paint job.

In our trade, we too have been found guilty of Profit Making, Environment Ruining, Disease Spreading and Wife Sampling.

Two questions I'd pose:

1) What VIABLE alternative to the Oil Industry exists?

2) What VIABLE alternative to the HVAC/R industry exists?

You boys are throwing stones from your own glass porch. Lot of very bright minds at this website. If we can come up with answers to either question, we'll change the world over night.

[bootlen]

Okay. So. Oil Companies clearly are evil. They've somehow managed to make profits in their market. They're responsible for whatever weirdness iscurrently being reported by the weather chick on tv. In a few years we'll finally have proof that they created and set loose the whole HIV situation. And I'm not sure how, but I know damn well they're responsible for the scratch on my wife's paint job.

In our trade, we too have been found guilty of Profit Making, Environment Ruining, Disease Spreading and Wife Sampling.

Two questions I'd pose:

1) What VIABLE alternative to the Oil Industry exists?

2) What VIABLE alternative to the HVAC/R industry exists?

You boys are throwing stones from your own glass porch. Lot of very bright minds at this website. If we can come up with answers to either question, we'll change the world over night.


Excellent post, dave. There really are some brilliant minds here (although some of them couldn't debate their collective way out of a wet paper sack).

All it takes is one good idea from which to springboard and market. Me...I'm not an idea man. But there are quite a few here who have huge potential.

[chillbilly]

VIABLE[/I] alternative to the Oil Industry exists?

2) What VIABLE alternative to the HVAC/R industry exists?

You boys are throwing stones from your own glass porch. Lot of very bright minds at this website. If we can come up with answers to either question, we'll change the world over night.
__________________________________________________ _____________

They're not really throwing stones.....



more like very small pebbles.
;) ;)

[corny]

my niggahs..........

hate to take this slightly off topic but has anyone else been noticing that exxon stations are closing down.

Around here...eastern tennessee..... Ive noticed that all the exxon stations are either closing completely or are being changed over to BP...I think... they all still have the plastic on the signs..... Exxon cards no longer supported....I think they are advertising BP cards now...

Strange.... I always preferred buying my gas at exxon...and will probably still use the existing stores no matter what they go to...

During work I only like to use certain stores....clean well lit stores with clean restrooms.... I dont care if someone has prices at 50 percent of everyone else....the store better be clean and have a clean restroom or they dont get my business.

A while back I was in a bad part of a town near here....had an emergency and I had to quickly run to a supply house......I was out of cigarettes..... closest and most convienient place was a gas station right down the street from the business I was at... Stopped went in and the place would knock you down.... looked like a couple of drug addicts in there as customers.... it was ran by a pakistani or some other something....and the place stank like hell......
I wanted to shower after leaving there......lord knows what clung to me while in there........ a real mess...

I only wish I had more time that evening...I would have bought some kerosene and cleaned the place up after dark....lol

oh...they served food in there too...hotdogs, corndogs, bisquits..... man...I cant imagine walking in there and buying something to eat....

[glennac]

Mars' ice caps are melting because of a warming sun. Just like we are. Check out the web site. http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html

Also if we could get rid of all the commie loving anti captalist eviromental wacko's we would all be twice as rich today and have less CO2 in the atmosphere because we would have electricity at half the cost through cheap atomic power via fast breeder reactors and with out unrealistic safety factors to make it cost 3 times what it should cost. Industry could produce products a lot cheaper and you would not be using oil or gas to heat your homes. Just cheap electricty with heat pumps.

[James 3528]

If you don't like the oil companies, stop being a hypocrite and refuse to buy their product. That ought to hurt them.

[geerair]

Okay. So. Oil Companies clearly are evil. They've somehow managed to make profits in their market. They're responsible for whatever weirdness iscurrently being reported by the weather chick on tv. In a few years we'll finally have proof that they created and set loose the whole HIV situation. And I'm not sure how, but I know damn well they're responsible for the scratch on my wife's paint job. Ah, the Bush causes hurricanes defense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:









In our trade, we too have been found guilty of Profit Making, Environment Ruining, Disease Spreading and Wife Sampling.Difference is that the HVACR industry is proactive in finding solutions to the problems we created and finding alternative, more earth friendly refrigerants.







Two questions I'd pose:

1) What VIABLE alternative to the Oil Industry exists?At this time, none. Which should prompt us to make an increased effort to find alternatives.




2) What VIABLE alternative to the HVAC/R industry exists?Why do you feel one is needed?

[tinknocker44]

Okay. So. Oil Companies clearly are evil. They've somehow managed to make profits in their market. They're responsible for whatever weirdness iscurrently being reported by the weather chick on tv. In a few years we'll finally have proof that they created and set loose the whole HIV situation. And I'm not sure how, but I know damn well they're responsible for the scratch on my wife's paint job.

In our trade, we too have been found guilty of Profit Making, Environment Ruining, Disease Spreading and Wife Sampling.

Wont comment on that cause its just plain idiotic.


Two questions I'd pose:

1) What VIABLE alternative to the Oil Industry exists?

Lets hope our new congress will find out.


2) What VIABLE alternative to the HVAC/R industry exists?

Who knows, but the EPA was a good start.

You boys are throwing stones from your own glass porch. Lot of very bright minds at this website. If we can come up with answers to either question, we'll change the world over night.

Nobody is trying to change it overnight. Just trying to make it a better planet for your kids. If dumbya was making millions from corn you guys would say the pesticides they spray is good for our rivers.:rolleyes:

[tinknocker44]

Mars' ice caps are melting because of a warming sun. Just like we are. Check out the web site. http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html

Also if we could get rid of all the commie loving anti captalist eviromental wacko's we would all be twice as rich today and have less CO2 in the atmosphere because we would have electricity at half the cost through cheap atomic power via fast breeder reactors and with out unrealistic safety factors to make it cost 3 times what it should cost. Industry could produce products a lot cheaper and you would not be using oil or gas to heat your homes. Just cheap electricty with heat pumps.


Ya who needs safety devices on a nuclear reactor. :rolleyes: Another student in janes "school of common sense".

[James 3528]

If you had any common sense Turdknocker44, you would have figured out the quote brackets by now.

[chillbilly]

greer;
At this time, none. Which should prompt us to make an increased effort to find alternatives.
__________________________________________________ _______________

That "prompt" occured over 3 decades ago.

No significant increased effort noted.

[geerair]

greer;
At this time, none. Which should prompt us to make an increased effort to find alternatives.
__________________________________________________ _______________

That "prompt" occured over 3 decades ago.

No significant increased effort noted.Sad but true.

More reason we should get on the ball.

[rob10]

With "OIL" as in Exxon, BP. etc. in control, no alternatives will be found until the reserves are sucked dry.

[James 3528]

So what's your point? Don't you work at a refinery?

[rob10]

Owned by Chavez!! ;)

[James 3528]

So you have been running down American oil companies and your fat ass works for a 3rd world dictator...nice.

[chillbilly]

Is that why he wrote in for Chavez?

What a goomer.

[rob10]

I dont see anything wrong with being a part time communist. ;) Better than being an ignorant inbred bushdroid !:D

[engineerdave]

Tinknocker.....Greer,
You fellas have picked my post apart very effectively. It's a fantastic tactic. A tactic that worked extremely well in the last election and will, no doubt, win the Whitehouse as well.

But you've succeeded only in avoiding the questions I raised. This shows that not only do you currently have ZERO solutions, but it indicates you may actually FEAR change.

Go ahead now boys...shout as LOUD as you want. Maybe no one will realize you're saying nothing.

Or.....let's put this forum to use. Instead of placing blame, let's generate a Top Ten list of problems needing to be solved.

Then let's solve them.

Together.

Unless you're afraid. Then I guess you can tell your lovers what a bully I am.

[James 3528]

I think they both should sell their cars and trucks

[chillbilly]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform

[geerair]

[QUOTE]But you've succeeded only in avoiding the questions I raised. This shows that not only do you currently have ZERO solutions, but it indicates you may actually FEAR change.Whaddayou want? I agreed there are no viable alternatives to the oil industry at the present.

Does that mean that the oil industry should be exempt from any environmental laws and be free to do as they please?

Does that mean that criticism of a deceptive public relations campaign should be muzzled?

Does that mean that we should not try to find alternative sources of energy?




Unless you're afraid. Then I guess you can tell your lovers what a bully I am.Yes, that sort of comment helps the process along. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[geerair]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy ReformI could go along with most of that.

[engineerdave]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform

No half-measures here. :cool:

I think items 2 & 3 can be consolidated into one issue. That frees up one spot on the list.

The same for items 7, 8, & 9. That frees up two more spots.

1) Until there is a dramatically reduced need for their oil, I think it's likely that this will always be a mess. If the region is not stabilized, we all suffer. Do we send more troops, lock the place down? Maybe. Doesn't really seem to be working now. Do we back out and let them kill each other off? That's been tried almost continuously for 5000 years. Doesn't seem to have worked either. And now their conflicts are spilling out into other regions. Revenues from oil sales has given them buying power. Do we nuke 'em? Maybe. If we can truly justify destroying the Meek (grammas, babies, schoolgirls) along with the Militant. How about surgical teams chopping the Hydra's head, make room for new leadership that will do business? I favor this approach.

2-3) Annex Mexico. Mexico has resources. Just very poorly managed. We just add 1/2 dozen new States the Union and quit screwing around. We're funnelling bucket-loads of cash there now anyway. Let's get some mileage out of it. They want to cross our border so bad, I say we make our border cross them. Then on the southern end of Mexico the border is smaller, easier to secure. Annex Mexico. If they don't like it, we make them like it.

It's late. I'll take a shot at the rest next time. Batter up...

[geerair]

Annex the beaches, the All-Inclusive Resorts, the golf courses and the beer. :D :D :D :D

[chillbilly]

[QUOTE=engineerdave;1330602]No half-measures here. :cool:

I think items 2 & 3 can be consolidated into one issue. That frees up one spot on the list.
__________________________________________________ ____________
I'm against consolidating border control and immigration reform into one bundle.
It's confusing. These lawmakers and presidents need to held accountable for each line item included in ANY legislation they put forth and sign into law or veto.
Mobilzing our borders has nothing to do with how we deal with those who cross them illegaly.


The same for items 7, 8, & 9. That frees up two more spots.
__________________________________________________ _____________
How and why are mandatory military service requirements and military benefits supposed to be part of the same legislation?
Our electorate needs some clear and concise legislation that has no addendums or revisions attached. It's confusing.
If the citizens in this country have current and future legislation spelled out and explained adequately, they will be less inclined to vote for those candidates who do not expalin their platforms thoroughly.
It's supposed to be about accountability and too many times these career politicians are not held accountable.
Strategic defense would fall under funding and admin for advanced weapons programs that are becoming obsolete and unsafe, so it's another separate issue.
Again, I don't believe these politicians should be consolidating any of this stuff. Keep it separated so that it can be thoroughly dissected by the voters and the experts.

[engineerdave]

Damn, Chillbilly. You're making me think a bit. Give me a day or two...

[chillbilly]

Damn, Chillbilly. You're making me think a bit. Give me a day or two...

__________________________________________________ _______________

LOL

I just want to see these guys up on the hill answer for everything, that's all Dave.
If they can find a way to tuck legislation away inside another bill, they often are not caught until they escape the bank,spend all the money and are sitting on an island sipping Margueritas.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[dw1]

It's supposed to be about accountability and too many times these career politicians are not held accountable.

This is a double edged sword. To the people of WVA, Robert Byrd is the answer to their prayers and why he is reelected term after term. His earmarks have poured hundred's of millions into the state.
I say throw the bum out, but I don't vote in WVA. ;)
Term limits versus no term limits? With no term limits EVERY elected official has only one goal, to be reelected, everything else is BS. Byrd is a perfect example. With term limits Byrd would not be reelected term after term but that's who the voters want.
Democracy can get pretty ugly, just like ARP. :D

[chillbilly]

This is a double edged sword. To the people of WVA, Robert Byrd is the answer to their prayers and why he is reelected term after term. His earmarks have poured hundred's of millions into the state.
I say throw the bum out, but I don't vote in WVA. ;)
Term limits versus no term limits? With no term limits EVERY elected official has only one goal, to be reelected, everything else is BS. Byrd is a perfect example. With term limits Byrd would not be reelected term after term but that's who the voters want.
Democracy can get pretty ugly, just like ARP. :D




I can't disagree with you here dw.

Maybe term limits should be on the list of 10.

[acmanko]

Think of the chaos that would happen if every two years Important committee chairmanships went to a new congressman, some stability is required.

[scrogdog]

This is no different than the media scientists on the other side of the court also misleading the public with wildly misleading statements like "there is no doubt that humans have affected global warming".

Well... duh. The question is how much? But the largely science-weak public doesn't ask that question. Instead, humans become the SOLE cause of global warming in their minds. Thus we see a nearly criminal mis-use of science as a tool to mold social policy.

You know, science is a wonderful thing that can be perverted. I don't think Geer or I have been swayed (though we disagree on some thing regarding GW) by the BS media types because we read the journals. What about mainstream America though?

Science is at its best when there are critics, and when scientists are open to the possibility that they are wrong. Instead we see critics slammed and treated as heritics and then blacklisted. Science isn't about strong-arm tactics... or I guess I should say that it shouldn't be.

Science explains things... it doesn't create "facts". It creates theories based on observations of facts. Fact: Global Warming exists. Theory: Man made C02 has had a significant impact on the observed phenomena. Fact: Man descended from ape-like creatures. Theory: natural selection describes the mechanism of evolution. We don't really know how or why a fin turns in to a leg, despite evolution being one of the more robust sciences at this time. We only know that it does. Fact: Gravity exists. Theory: Einstien theorized how gravity works off of the Earth. He never claimed it as a "fact".

Facts and theories are different things... not to be compared. And this planet would be far better served by scientists saying how it is... we have a theory that says that humans have made a significant impact on global warming. But we never hear it stated as theory, we hear it stated as fact.

[chillbilly]

Think of the chaos that would happen if every two years Important committee chairmanships went to a new congressman, some stability is required.

That's a good point.
However, a fixed term limit does not have to last 2 years and no one insinuated that it should.
If a president can do a max 2 terms, what's wrong with setting 8 years as a total for legislators?

[engineerdave]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform



4) Tough issue. Requires a three-pronged solution. First, Tort Reform. We all know what frivolous lawsuits have done for medical costs. Second, More R&D. This is not to say the Government should subsidize anyone, just get out of the way. Maybe an X-Prize type program in the medical field? Third, Outlaw Snake-Oil. All those Bick Digger pills need to be either proven or shut down.

5) Private personal donations only, $5000.00 or less per leg. Media venues may donate airtime or print space all they want. Corporate cash donations or "gifts" would be legally actionable. Kinda leads us to Term Limits. I feel like Election Day is a Term Limit. If the voter wants the same representation for 40 years, it'll show at the polls.

6) Go to a Flat Tax.

[acmanko]

That's a good point.
However, a fixed term limit does not have to last 2 years and no one insinuated that it should.
If a president can do a max 2 terms, what's wrong with setting 8 years as a total for legislators? I was only refering to elections for congress being held every two years , I don't know if the American public could function with out so many elections

[engineerdave]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform


Although I spent a number of years on Active Duty, I was a wrench-turner. Not a combat veteran or a strategist. Not sure I'm qualified to comment on items 7, 8, or 9. But I'm gonna try anyway.

7) Seems like the Reagan Administration may have been on a promising track with SDI. I'd like to see what current technologies and / or the Private Sector could produce in this area.

8) My own experience was that I was headed for a life of revolving correctional institute doors. The military taught me the value of honor and integrity. I FIRMLY believe every able bodied American should serve. I'm not sure I'm convinced it should be mandatory.

9) I think we can all agree the way we take care of our Armed Forces Personnel and their families is, at best, utterly and completely dishonorable. We should shut down the cumbaya programs and do right by our Service Members. Now.

[engineerdave]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform



10) New technology will be at the root of this. Sameoldsameold won't do any longer. "Legislation" "Initiative" "Program" "Agency" None of these words mean anything on this issue. The only thing, the ONLY thing that will precipitate the pursuit of new technology is PROFIT. If there's no money in it, it will not happen. How do you profit if it's cheap and renewable? That's the trick and I'm sorry to say that as yet I don't have an answer. Yet.

Anyone else wanna take a crack at the Ten?

[engineerdave]

1- Middle East War measures
2- Border control
3- Illegal immigration changes and measures.
4- Health Care Reform
5- Campaign Finance Reform
6- Tax Code Reform
7- Strategic Defense Reform
8- Mandatory military requirements
9- Military pay and education Reform
10-Mandatory Energy Reform

Okay fellas. My ideas may not be the best, may even suck. Let's see what you got to offer up....

[engineerdave]

No takers? Guess I shouldn't be surprised.:cool:

[wallynut]

[QUOTE=corny;1330010]"my niggahs.........."
QUOTE]

What is this all about?:confused: