Where are all the good techs in AZ this year??

[arizona-air]

We have an add running on Monster for HVAC service technicians in the phoenix metro area and are getting mostly installers responding. Usually this time of year here in AZ lots of people are out looking because they are not getting the hours they want. We would have expected at least several experienced residential technicians to have contacted us wanting to make the move to commercial. Anyone have any idea why the tech market is so tight here in AZ during the winter this year?

What are you guys doing to find your techs?

-Mark-
strahan@burt-burnett.com

[cracker]

Dud,since you are new to the site, just check some of payson posting
there is no way, that someone with half a brain in there head would work out there, that place is a death trap, no inspection, no control over installs
I dont know what kind of money, is out there,but it is not enough, for that kind of dangerous working conditions.
sorry thats the way I see it...maybe I am wrong???

[smilies]

Dud,since you are new to the site, just check some of payson posting
there is no way, that someone with half a brain in there head would work out there, that place is a death trap, no inspection, no control over installs
I dont know what kind of money, is out there,but it is not enough, for that kind of dangerous working conditions.
sorry thats the way I see it...maybe I am wrong???

WTF?, you're one of those that are pretty quick to make assumptions from something you saw on the internet, right? I'm sure that's not limited to AZ.

[smilies]

We have an add running on Monster for HVAC service technicians in the phoenix metro area and are getting mostly installers responding. Usually this time of year here in AZ lots of people are out looking because they are not getting the hours they want. We would have expected at least several experienced residential technicians to have contacted us wanting to make the move to commercial. Anyone have any idea why the tech market is so tight here in AZ during the winter this year?

What are you guys doing to find your techs?

-Mark-
strahan@burt-burnett.com

It's been a very good job market for Phoenix comm/ind techs here this year. No one I know is actively looking, they are satisfied where they are at. I myself was not looking, but in conversation at a soda stop, was offered $8k more a year base pay along with a better package. You might have to pony up some more. The boards at ARS are full.

[cracker]

Sorry to bust your bubble, dud
But there are other resources, too confurm,that az has some of the highest workmans comp rates in the nation.

If they offered 8k more a year, take it...you might need it, when you fall threw a ceiling, or off a roof.
As for ARS, that speaks for it self.
Be careful, Injury last a life time.

[arizona-air]

It's been a very good job market for Phoenix comm/ind techs here this year. No one I know is actively looking, they are satisfied where they are at. I myself was not looking, but in conversation at a soda stop, was offered $8k more a year base pay along with a better package. You might have to pony up some more. The boards at ARS are full.

Appreciate your input... We've been posting at ARS as well as the other vendors. When you say this has been a very good job market in Phoenix year, you aren't about right, you are exactly right. I think the recent downturn in residential new construction will change the picture in a few months. That still won't affect the commercial technician labor market too much. There is a projected shortfall for experienced technicians in our area over the next few years. When you consider that we are adding 160,000 new families per year moving into the area it is not surprising.

A few of the early fliers we put out offered a rate of $16 to $28/HR DOE. The newer ones all say $16 to $30/HR DOE. I think what we are offering is slightly above average for 2 to 5 year technicians in this market. The flyer lists the items included in our benefit package also. What do you perceive the going rate for experienced commercial technicians to be in the Phoenix market?

-Mark-

[arizona-air]

Dud,since you are new to the site, just check some of payson posting
there is no way, that someone with half a brain in there head would work out there, that place is a death trap, no inspection, no control over installs
I dont know what kind of money, is out there,but it is not enough, for that kind of dangerous working conditions.
sorry thats the way I see it...maybe I am wrong???

Cracker:

Most of what I have seen Payson posting is residential. He has done a few commercial posts. Keep in mind that when Payson posts to the Hall of Shame, he is pretty much sharing a perspective of the worst of the worst he runs into. It doesn't give an accurate picture of the entire AZ market.

The buildings we work on are mostly "Class A" medical office buildings. Since we are a primarily a commercial service contractor and don't pursue new construction, we typically don't run into any dangerous stuff.

-Mark-

[smilies]

A few of the early fliers we put out offered a rate of $16 to $28/HR DOE. The newer ones all say $16 to $30/HR DOE. I think what we are offering is slightly above average for 2 to 5 year technicians in this market. The flyer lists the items included in our benefit package also. What do you perceive the going rate for experienced commercial technicians to be in the Phoenix market?

-Mark-

That wage looks good Mark, but we are already at that high end mark (although I'm an 11 year tech, I'm at that mark). Unless something else persuades the tech to leave, he'll stay put.

Example: My buddy is indifferent about where he's at now; he shows up and does his work and goes home. We want him here and have offered him more money but he won't budge. Why? Because his company has been contributing to his student loans every week for some time and if he left he would have to repay over $5k back to said company. Something else has to push him out of that place.

[arizona-air]

...We want him here and have offered him more money but he won't budge. Why? Because his company has been contributing to his student loans every week for some time and if he left he would have to repay over $5k back to said company. Something else has to push him out of that place.

Golden handcuffs :o) 5k is a pretty good sized take away...

-Mark-

[ddcfan]

It's not only an AZ problem...

[mtempleton]

It's not only an AZ problem...

I agree.

"A report from the U.S. Department of Labor & Statistics states that between 2008 and 2012, there will be 22,000 job opportunities in the HVAC related skilled trades per year that will likely go unfilled."

It sounds like an industry-wide problem.

[arizona-air]

I've been playing recruiter all week :D

I'm not surprised that this is not a local problem. Even the local union hall here is advertizing for people. I know a couple of skilled technicians who have recently gone over to the union.

In the past we have used HVAC Agent and currently are clients of MEP at Work. Our experience with HVAC Agent and Mep at Work has been that many of the resumes we get from them are from out of state. We have intervied a few of these folks and hired some of them, but the results we have realized so far by transplanting folks to AZ have been pretty dismal.

I have been investigating other options for getting our name out there, such as Monster. We received 6 resumes as a result of the Monster post. 1 was from Saudi Arabia... 1 was from New York... 4 were more or less local. I called them back the same day and 2 had already found positions. We have had a few skilled individuals come through the door in the last couple of weeks. Some of them were from the Monster ad we posted and some were referrals. We are still looking for 3 to 5 HVAC techs and an entry level control tech to gear up for summer.

The local classifieds have not been a particularly good answer either. They are filled with competitor's ads, are relatively expensive and have produced very little for us in the way of response.

I think one good strategy would be for companies that are in the colder climates to partner with companies in the hotter climates so we could start a tech exchange program. We need more skilled service technicians in the summer and you need more skilled service technicians in the winter. ;)

If you guys have any ideas about what we could do to be more effective at finding the right talent, please share your thoughts...

e-mail me if you like ~ strahan@burt-burnett.com

Happy New Year to all...

-M-

[ddcfan]

If you guys have any ideas about what we could do to be more effective at finding the right talent, please share your thoughts...

-M-

I started in AZ but decided to move to norther Cal...Way better wages... about the only thing that's way different.... is real estate.. Other than that it's pretty much same...So that narrows it to $$$... The problem??? Companies are not willing to pay what it takes for those that are TRULY skilled in the trade...why pay $45/hr for 1 when you can get 2 for the price of 1... simple...1)call backs 2)efficiency 3)reputation 4)training

1) I never seen a call back that is cost effective... Unskilled techs will bring you plenty of call backs
2) Confident techs that know the trade will be very efficient... more productivity- less relience on sales...sales will come automatically thru reputation which this is directly related to the next two..(Think of Honda when you think of this)
3) Customers/clients follow good techs. and are not shy about refferals...translation...more accounts...more business..
4) Often neglected but I feel it is crucial...Internal and external training...I have found that over the 22 yrs. I've been in the trade..I have found that alot of techs feel that they have to keep everything secret...out of fear that someone may do their jobs more efficiently for less wages....BS!!!!... I say share the wealth... the wealth of knowledge... If your good you will always be good and resourceful...Someone is always outhere willing to recognize your worth and pay...If they don't then you are the only one to blame....

You want some advise...
Check your highest or best competitor and give your techs higher salaries(if you know they are above just good)...You may attract those that may be willing to make a move....If they have good attitudes have them train every so often your younger generation techs...

I was an Instructor a few years back and we used get bonuses for retention and placement of students...If I had them located with a company I would get a bonus and if I kept them.. I 'd get a bonus...eventually someone else gave me something else better and transitioned.... I turned down a 120k/yr plus benies job down last year.. not to toot my own horn...But what I'm trying to say is... $$$$ always talks.... It's up to you guys to do your share to make sure someone meets up to those better salaries...Didn't mean to make this long...But I continue to see a very BIG problem developing... Pay those that deserve it and use your investment wisely...

[ddcfan]

I agree.

"A report from the U.S. Department of Labor & Statistics states that between 2008 and 2012, there will be 22,000 job opportunities in the HVAC related skilled trades per year that will likely go unfilled."

It sounds like an industry-wide problem.


WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS???

I have my opinion on this...If you'd like to hear it...

[mtempleton]

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS???

I have my opinion on this...If you'd like to hear it...

by all means, indulge me. :D

[ddcfan]

This is somewhat of a repost but I can't emphazise enought the problem developing...I understand what the frustration is about…. but I see a bigger problem developing... I have 22 yrs. in the Biss and I was birth as a refer/AC mechanic/service...,13yrs. into the biss I began teaching full time..., after 2yrs., I turned to controls...I can troubleshoot a lubrication problem of a bearing on a centrifugal, or adjust an EPR and CPR an a muli-evap lo temp box, or interpret the flow characteristics on a decoupled loop in a chillwater syst, or tear-down a pump and replace mechanical seals, tuned steam boilers and do water tratment both on a open and closed loops for steam, chilled water and cooling towers, I can fully program a functional program from scratch with no programming templates from multiple manufactures, and I handle my own modifying graphics and manipulating Network settings on my service tool (laptop)...familiar w/ BACnet and Lon and their bindings...

POINT is.....No I'm not puffing myself or tooting my own Horn...THE BOTTOM LINE IS ...We that carry this kind of flexible experience are a dissapearing breed...

No, I never mastered anything in this trade…. but I can hang...(Street Slang)... Just like you have good and bad doctors...trust me you will have good and bad techs... it doesn't matter... it is up to owners/managers to be able to distiguish and merit between the two... Problem is sometimes neither one carry the know-how to be able to distiguish between the two.. thats one problem... the other? well? let's just say it's a little more involved...

Yes, there is a lot of HVAC techs that say they can do it all... you may be saying that about me right know...But all you have to do if you don't know how to distinguish between the two is look for the patterns(trends)... Years in the bizz, how many different job jumps, attitude, and that’s fine, but,... the bigger problem is not enough kids graduating out of school are NOT joining the SKILLED CRAFTS... therefore, creating a huge disparity in the the crafts...HVAC companies thought they could just get ANY guys to do the work of "SKILLED HVAC JOURNEYMAN" and have a successful reputation.... Wrong! ...Mechanical Companies think that when a season HVAC mechanic leaves because of age that they could just fill the void with any body ( Including illegal aliens)... I have seen a huge shift of Illegal aliens get into the construction business.... Many of them are trained skilled electricians, carpenters, masons, and mechanics... They used to just come to this country and work in the fields as farmers even though they had all that experience as skilled workers, they did this becuase that was a dirty, hard job and anobody else really wanted to do it.... Sound familiar....Companies needed to fill in the void that was created during the 90's DOT COMM revoultion.. For you older ones, you probably remember during that time EVERYONE wanted to get into some sort of computer field...Many companies sprouted to teach and train in the field of IT...The question then becomes what happens to training...Too expensive, not enough initiative, not enough bodies...Schools that teach the crafts are closing because they can't compete with the IT schools.. Furthering the gap between the young and old in the crafts... When was the last time you ran across a kid that said I’m going to refer school after I graduate...Now, when was the last time you ran across a kid that wanted to make web pages be in IT or be a hacker...NOW a new problem has arisen... A lot of IT jobs are being contracted overseas (India) because all can be done electronically; hence the DOT COM companies cutting IT jobs... HVAC Control Companies pick them (laid off IT guys) up thinking they can provide a service...So is it wise to pay sky rocketing Union wages???...Does anyone see the pattern? It becomes a complete circle... money--education/trained individuals, aging—money… There is a huge gap in the 25 to 40 year old age bracket… The 50 to 60 year olds are disappearing and taking their knowledge…In the old days the old timer always had someone below to teach them the tricks of the trade…(purpose of apprenticeships) And it was not uncommon to have several in that age bracket to be able to pass this great wealth of information...now, There is hardly anyone in that younger age bracket to pass all this great wealth of knowledge…My advise is If you are a HVAC Tech and have no IT background then get it…If you are a HVAC mechanic get some PC skills…In this day and age you will need both…Hey that just makes you not valuable but invaluable… Find an OLD TIMER and let him be your mentor...Thats why the census you provided with the statistics don't surprise me...and it's going to get worse...I've traveled to IL, MN, WIS, NY, FL, VA, GA, AZ, TX, and all up and down CA.. and have interacted with some of our indusry experts and all are saying the same thing.. they can't find "SKILLED" people to fill positions....The last few years I have seen this pattern... Bonus enticements pre-summer, union halls empty, positions not filled for months, and when positions are filled companies are scraping the bottom of the barrel...This was unheard of in the 80's and 90's... I remember in the late 80's companies would do the hiring the month before it got real hot or real cold... Now, they are trying to do the hiring in winter for summer and summer to help with summer and prepare them for winter...Keep a good attitude mechanic over winter and train him during slow season to bring in the clients during summer... residential, commercial, and industrial have all one thing in common .... Nobody likes a call-back... Many systems are very forgiving...meaning... they may be able to run but are they running up to their optimum...My two-cents ;)

[ddcfan]

And yet another statistic to tickle you fancy....FYI...This is from the U.S. Department of Labor website...



Job Outlook
Job prospects for heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration mechanics and installers are expected to be excellent, particularly for those with training from an accredited technical school or with formal apprenticeship training, and especially in the fastest growing areas of the country. A growing number of retirements of highly skilled technicians are expected to generate many job openings. In addition, employment of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration mechanics and installers is projected to increase faster than the average for all occupations through the year 2014. As the population and stock of buildings grows, so does the demand for residential, commercial, and industrial climate-control systems. The increased complexity of HVACR systems, increasing the possibility that equipment may malfunction, also will create opportunities for service technicians. Technicians who specialize in installation work may experience periods of unemployment when the level of new construction activity declines, but maintenance and repair work usually remains relatively stable. People and businesses depend on their climate-control systems and must keep them in good working order, regardless of economic conditions.

Appendix: Employment by occupation, 2004 and projected 2014
[Numbers in thousands]

2004 National Employment Matrix
Title: Heating, air conditioning, and refrigeration mechanics and installers
Code: 49-9021
Employment Number
2004: 270
2014: 321
Percent distribution
2004: 0.2
2014: 0.2
Change
Number: 51
Percent: 19.0

Total job openings due to growth and net replacements,2004-14 (1): 87 :eek: now this is in the thousands...will they be filled???:rolleyes:

I find this very interesting...
I believe this validates and vindicates my presumptions...don't you think???