help! started unit with opening a dry condensor

[zman420]

help 2 hours ago i started unit with my new skills i learned on the job i pulled a vacuum and i forgot to open my vavles on a dry cond with nitogen in it i put freon in opened the valves and i forgot it was nitrogen in it not freon r-22 ...what do i do ? do i reclaim and pull a new vacuum and then charge properly .. and do i do it immediatly?

[jmac00]

help 2 hours ago i started unit with my new skills i learned on the job i pulled a vacuum and i forgot to open my vavles on a dry cond with nitogen in it i put freon in opened the valves and i forgot it was nitrogen in it not freon r-22 ...what do i do ? do i reclaim and pull a new vacuum and then charge properly .. and do i do it immediatly?

yep, your screwed. Reclaim, pull a new vacuum......CHARGE THE SYSTEM.....open the valves THEN start it up.

how long did it run without freezone in it?

[zman420]

i charged it, it has freon ,but the nitrogen from the condensor is also in it mixed? i was in a hurry and screwed up

[zman420]

Do I need shut it down asap?

[jmac00]

Do I need shut it down asap?

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your running this thing with R-22 AND Nitrogen in the system??? How long has this been running???

Reclaim whatever you have in there, pull a vacuum, recharge and restart and hope the system last a few years

[zman420]

I ran it for for an hour or so and then the t stat at 75 its been 4 hours now

[Hvac216]

Uh oh

[jmac00]

Uh oh

that would be an understatement LOL, i think Zman may have killed the patient. This can't be good.

[Snapperhead]

You need to empty the system and start over.

The R22 in there is no good now

Open both king valves and leave them open , you are done using those now.

Using the shrader valves , reclaim the bad gas , vacuum it down , add new R22 , done .

[jmac00]

Uh oh

that would be an understatement LOL, i think Zman may have killed the patient. This can't be good.

[mason]

Is this for real? Between this and fengHVAC I'm starting to think someone is pranking the members.

[Hvac216]

With 420 in the username it is probably easy to forget something like that.

[Brent Ridley]

Do as stated above ASAP!

Do not operate the system until you have recovered contaminated charge, pulled a vacuum to below 500 microns, and weighed in the charge using the correct refrigerant.

Failing to do so will cause that system to fail VERY soon!

[Joehvac25]

With 420 in the username it is probably easy to forget something like that.

I'm sure that's just dinner time lol

[Brent Ridley]

Zman,

I was checking your previous posts and you stated you've been in the trade for 25 years? You were inquiring about a Florida contractor license.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=750461

I understand accidents happen but with that many years experience, you should know exactly what to do!

I'm kinda confused.

[SBKold]

Relatively easy to seperate the two in a cylinder.

Oh and did this happen before or after 4:20pm on Friday?

Ill go ahead and admit doing the same thing before. I thought I read serial and saw 0911 and thought I had a older 2009 unit. Oops.

[jmac00]

not me, the guy has to be a troll, 25 years and he pulls this???

something is definitely not right here

[Brent Ridley]

I was trying to put it nicely. Haha. That post was from 2011...so he should have 27 years experience now!

When are people going to learn? The key is to be humble and truthful. If you possess these things, you'll gain more education from this site than you've ever dreamed of! I sure know I have.

But if you do the opposite, we aren't so willing to help and you will get run off quickly.

[zman420]

april 20 is my birthday and i drive a 350 z and there is no excuse for i what i did but being in a hurry before dark hit , i went back and killed the breaker , i will pull a new vacuum for a good hour or so and recharge according the mfg specs ,thanks for the helpful comments ,and to the smart ass ,im sure you have never ever ever made mistake ,and if not ,i hope you do one day......lesson learned thanks

[billg]

See.....! now some people are already suffering the repercussions from chasing Feng away. Had he been here to lend his master tutelage in the hvac, this poor soul would never have been in this predicament in the first place.

[zman420]

by the at start up it ran fine ,i weighed in the charge put my clamp on my suction ,superheat and subcool checked out ,hope fully all will be good ,once again thanks

[Hvac216]

Making a mistake and missing something isn't the problem, we've all missed stuff. I could be wrong but how can a start up turn out ok with nitro still in the system?

[mason]

april 20 is my birthday and i drive a 350 z and there is no excuse for i what i did but being in a hurry before dark hit , i went back and killed the breaker , i will pull a new vacuum for a good hour or so and recharge according the mfg specs ,thanks for the helpful comments ,and to the smart ass ,im sure you have never ever ever made mistake ,and if not ,i hope you do one day......lesson learned thanks

We aren't hurting for smart a$$'s around here so you will have to be more specific!

Everybody makes mistakes, your presentation and circumstances are just more sketchy. With the trolls and spammers that come on the site you never know. If you're real then get in the "pros" residential section and do lots of reading and ask lots of questions.

[zman420]

its a factory nitro charge from a 4 ton condensor,i do not know how but it did ,and hopefully and i said hope fully running for the short time that i did will not harm the unit

[zman420]

ok ill do thanks ,,i came to ask questions and learn ,not to be subjected to comments that are not helpful.

[SBKold]

For one no lasting damage is likely since you shut it down and you are doing the right thing.

We need specifics here. I learned quick to not ask specific questions without proper info.

Instead of saying pressure and temps were good list your sat temps and line temps as well as indoor temp (wb if you are charging fixed ac).

Doubt you are close to correct. I know I wasn't. High measured sc and low suction.

Stick around and you'll learn quite a bit here.

[jmac00]

its a factory nitro charge from a 4 ton condensor,i do not know how but it did ,and hopefully and i said hope fully running for the short time that i did will not harm the unit

25-27 years in the business and you post this


i started unit with my new skills i learned on the job

Now we might infer from that statement that you were either inexperienced or had no idea what you were doing.

I know it sounds like we're a bunch of smart asses, but you can see from your post how that might come across.

Good luck with that unit

[billg]

ok ill do thanks ,,i came to ask questions and learn ,not to be subjected to comments that are not helpful.

You have to expect a fair amount of ribbing as you climb the ladder. Everyone here I'm sure got plenty, I know I did especially since when started I was working with my older brother. Look at it this way, you're learning and providing us entertainment at the same time:)

[SBKold]

I cant stop singing--

WHAT.......WOULD .......fengmaster do.....

Heat pump.......no heat

How'd it get that way?????what do I press?????

[jmac00]

I cant stop singing--

WHAT.......WOULD .......fengmaster do.....

Heat pump.......no heat

How'd it get that way?????what do I press?????

I was wondering why my dog started whining :grin2:

[SBKold]

Cant be. He must have to pee.

[jmac00]

Cant be. He must have to pee.

:grin2::cheers:

[zman420]

ok fare enough ill take it and when i have time and sit down and type and ill explain my experiance and why i wrote what i did


cheers genuises!!

[jpsmith1cm]

First of all, I don't think that running a system with a mixture of DRY nitrogen and R-22 or any other refrigerant for a few hours or even a few days will cause a noticeable reduction in the lifespan of that unit.

I've seen systems operate with air in them for a substantial period of time (given the number of calls before the problem was found and fixed) with no loss of reliability after the problem was corrected.

As has been said already, recover the contaminated refrigerant from the system and pull a deep vacuum on the system.

There IS a way to easily and safely re-use that contaminated refrigerant, though. I won't go into it in the open forum, but I've done it a few times and have never had a problem with it.

[drife678]

With 420 in the username it is probably easy to forget something like that.


lol

[drife678]

couple of our installers did the same to couple different systems. went back on them head pressure bouncing around like a bull in a china shop. reclaim evacuate recharge all good. keep your head up zman, keep learning, you will never stop. the guys that did it at our shop have 15 plus years they just dont read.

[martyinlincoln]

Guaranteed you're not the first or last guy to do that.

[Thermodynamics]

I was really cornfused as to why you were doing an AC start up in January, but being in FL explains alot :) If you forgot to open the service valves, wouldn't the unit be bouncing off the HPS? If the system is not equipped with an HPS you could have done some major damage to just about every component in the condenser.

Good luck man, pull a 500 micron vacuum and get your subcool right and you should be squared away.

PS: This thread is awesome

[koolkahuna]

First of all, I don't think that running a system with a mixture of DRY nitrogen and R-22 or any other refrigerant for a few hours or even a few days will cause a noticeable reduction in the lifespan of that unit.

I've seen systems operate with air in them for a substantial period of time (given the number of calls before the problem was found and fixed) with no loss of reliability after the problem was corrected.

As has been said already, recover the contaminated refrigerant from the system and pull a deep vacuum on the system.

There IS a way to easily and safely re-use that contaminated refrigerant, though. I won't go into it in the open forum, but I've done it a few times and have never had a problem with it.

Yup. Agree on all points.

[Cosmicmuffin]

I know of "2" units that have been running like this for 2 seasons..,no call backs.Tech did say he had trouble getting his Delta T. in spec. No customer complaints! I,ve wondered myself,what long term affects may be?

[timebuilder]

Back in one of the OP's posts, he said he would "run the vac pump for an hour," or something to that effect.

OP: the time is not the benchmark to use. A micron gauge IS the way to ensure you have pulled a proper vacuum.

We have left the age of running the pump for "awhile" behind us. Auto mechanics used to run a vac for only 30 mins in the days or R12 systems. I went to a class once where this was stated as the correct method.

You can get an inexpensive micron gauge for less than a c-note.

Do it right.

[Thermodynamics]

I know of "2" units that have been running like this for 2 seasons..,no call backs.Tech did say he had trouble getting his Delta T. in spec. No customer complaints! I,ve wondered myself,what long term affects may be?

I'm going to theorize about what would happen in this system.

Let's say his pressures were right for the system, but it was mixed with nitrogen/r22 refrigerant:

1. The compressor would pump a nitrogen, r22 vapor mixture through the condenser
2. R22 loses heat and condenses to a liquid, nitrogen remains a vapor in the liquid line
3. Now you have liquid refrigerant mixed with nitrogen vapor bubbles.
4. As these bubbles flow through the metering device, there wouldn't be any metering done until liquid refrigerant enters the metering device.

There's no possible way a system could cool properly. I'm sure your coworkers Delta T was next to 0, and anything he said otherwise was false.

[MR.CPRO]

The damage is done I think you should take advantage of your mistake and take readings to see what non condensibles in a system looks like. Then reclaim,change your drier, and run a deep vacuum, weigh in your proper charge. Don't rush that is where accidents happen!

[jpsmith1cm]

I'm going to theorize about what would happen in this system.

Let's say his pressures were right for the system, but it was mixed with nitrogen/r22 refrigerant:

1. The compressor would pump a nitrogen, r22 vapor mixture through the condenser
2. R22 loses heat and condenses to a liquid, nitrogen remains a vapor in the liquid line
3. Now you have liquid refrigerant mixed with nitrogen vapor bubbles.
4. As these bubbles flow through the metering device, there wouldn't be any metering done until liquid refrigerant enters the metering device.

There's no possible way a system could cool properly. I'm sure your coworkers Delta T was next to 0, and anything he said otherwise was false.

The systems that I've dealt with that have non-condensibles in them did work well enough.

They just tripped on high pressure on occasion.

[mason]

The systems that I've dealt with that have non-condensibles in them did work well enough.

They just tripped on high pressure on occasion.

I was under the impression that nitrogen would find a place to "settle" in the system, such as the top of the condenser coil, any truth in that?

[SBKold]

Depends if metering device has liquid seal or not.