Retool + Conquer

[chuckcrj]

What's it all about?

http://www.retoolandconquer.com/

[Control Man]

Its supposedly how Lenox tools will change the TOOL game being unveiled at the 2013 AHR Expo.

[chuckcrj]

Its supposedly how Lenox tools will change the TOOL game being unveiled at the 2013 AHR Expo.
They make it sound intriguing. Good marketing, I hope they deliver!

[Control Man]

Yes it does PERK your interest in the way they present it , will be interesting seeing what they have now that EVEYONE is into making tools.

[chuckcrj]

Here is a sneak peek they posted on twitter. It appears like a hybrid gauge manifold with both analog and digital outputs...

[itsiceman]

Is the vacuum sensor built in or separate?
All the Hilmor links go to the countdown page :rolleyes:

[Control Man]

Thanks for the picture , will be interesting to see what else they are offering.

[itsiceman]

3 year warranty Wow
24 hr battery life Wow

[chuckcrj]

1% accuracy. Are they bourdon tube sensors?

[itsiceman]

Just a guess but looks like servos of some kind that run the dial indicators off pressure transducers.
Did you see the analog gauge back light changes with what juice you have it set for?

[jlanesey]

They can't even make a decent pipe wrench or tubing cutter! Only Lennox tool I like is my folding razor knife.

[chuckcrj]

Just a guess but looks like servos of some kind that run the dial indicators off pressure transducers.
Did you see the analog gauge back light changes with what juice you have it set for?

Yes, that is cool. Isn't Testo and DC something like .5%? 1% accuracy on a 800 psi dial means a potential error of 8 psi.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[itsiceman]

Depends which one you get but they are between .5% and .75% on a lower scale.
The FP and YJ are 1%

[mark beiser]

It was 6pm by the time I made it to the Hilmor booth, so they were packing it in.
I'll be heading straight to it in the morning.

I want to check out that manifold, even though it looks ridiculous, but I'm also interested in some other tools, like their right angle tubing expander.

[darctangent]

I am decidedly underwhelmed.

Looks like the most interesting item is the reversible 1/4- 5/16 nut driver.

I agree the high end tubing expander has potential, maybe some other things too- I wouldn't say no to the manifold cover if they had the brains to make it water proof, but I don't think they were that smart.

[itsiceman]

Saw on a web site the price for just the regular analog set was four bills ... yikes
So the micron gauge must be built in since the cleaning instructions say to dump 3 oz. of cleaner down there

[Tech Rob]

Anyone else looking at this stuff and saying to themselves "what's the big deal?"

[darctangent]

I have to give kudos to anyone trying to be innovative, but this stuff seems like amature hour to me. I don't like to take that additude, but this seems like alot more effort was put into the marketing as apposed to the tools themselves.

[itsiceman]

I have to give kudos to anyone trying to be innovative, but this stuff seems like amature hour to me. I don't like to take that additude, but this seems like alot more effort was put into the marketing as apposed to the tools themselves.From what they decided to put on the screen in the pictures looks like some effort was lacking there too. The large 180˚ benders look nice with the rollers.

[Brent Ridley]

Hilmor. Not impressed.

The compound digital/analog gauge goes for about $450? That's crazy. You can get a set of Testo 550's for about $100 less.

The tools look rather cheap. Lots of plastic. The pipe thermocouple clamps look just like big blue ones from FP which are junk.

A lot of hype that lead to a big disappointment.

[itsiceman]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb2qztSxAE1qggvopo1_500.gif

[mark beiser]

I didn't make it back by the booth until late, but I got a chance to check out the digital gauge, and actually got to speak with one of the engineers.
They seem pretty rugged, and do not use garbage pressure transducers.
As for the "analogue" gauge portion, the needles are driven with stepper motors. I'm still baffled as to why anyone would want them on there, but supposedly the designers talked to a lot of people, and one of the most common things people who don't currently use digital gauges wanted was some dials.
I don't get it, but I've been fully digital for a number of years now.
The manifold itself seems to be a decent quality cast aluminum piece, with full diameter bores, and double o-ring sealed piston type valves.
The temperature probes are very similar to the ones fieldpiece uses, with the same kind of thermocouple for a sensor. I'd definitely junk drawer them, and use Fluke pipe clamps instead.

Lots of lights on the thing!
http://www.markbeiser.com/HVAC/randomstuff/ahr2013/hilmor/hilmorgauge.JPG

I was late getting to them, because I spent a LONG time at the Veto Pro Pack booth, and at a couple of other booths where I had "mind = blown" reactions that made me burn a lot of time.
I'll be posting about those in other threads.;)

[itsiceman]

As for the "analogue" gauge portion, the needles are driven with stepper motors. I'm still baffled as to why anyone would want them on there, but supposedly the designers talked to a lot of people, and one of the most common things people who don't currently use digital gauges wanted was some dials.And they all asked for a 500 scale on the low side too :Faint: The high side seem mostly useless at 800 as well!!! Just iCandy

[darctangent]

Wow. So this is what steve jobs warned us about....

HVAC tools designed by focus grouping the lowest common denominator of our industry.


Thanks for taking the time on this one, Mark!

[mark beiser]

The thing is, from handling it, and talking to the engineer guy that was there, it appears to be a pretty decent entry level DRSA at its core.
I can even come to terms with the profusion of green.
The dials are just stupid though, and kill the deal...
I'm curious how much the useless stepper motor driven dials, and associated color changing lighting, add to the cost.

[jtrammel]

I have to give kudos to anyone trying to be innovative, but this stuff seems like amature hour to me. I don't like to take that additude, but this seems like alot more effort was put into the marketing as apposed to the tools themselves.

x2

[chuckcrj]

Why are we not impressed? It sounds like everyone else is! According to a tweet by hilmor;

" The excitement about hilmor is off the charts. Now, we take our tools to you. Are you ready?..."

[itsiceman]

Why are we not impressed? It sounds like everyone else is! According to a tweet by hilmor;

" The excitement about hilmor is off the charts. Now, we take our tools to you. Are you ready?..."

If one of them trucks swings by here I'll check them out. Excluding the electronics the stuff looks good.

[jtrammel]

If one of them trucks swings by here I'll check them out. Excluding the electronics the stuff looks good.

I think it looks stupid and not impressive il stick with my fp sman3. The tubing expander looks ok, but I'd have to try it out to know if its a good one.

[chuckcrj]

If one of them trucks swings by here I'll check them out. Excluding the electronics the stuff looks good.

I would like to see them, the bender and the expander look good.

Mark, how did the hand tools look?

[itsiceman]

I think it looks stupid and not impressive il stick with my fp sman3. The tubing expander looks ok, but I'd have to try it out to know if its a good one.
The one that looks like Sid looks better than the one that looks like Sponge Bob IMO LOL
At least everything is shown at one time on the face of this one. Needs some tweaking though.

[mark beiser]

I would like to see them, the bender and the expander look good.

Mark, how did the hand tools look?

The bender and expander look real good.
I tried the expander out on some different size of copper, and it works as good or better than any expander I've used.
I really like how compact it is, and the thumb activated release lever is MILES better than competing products because it allow for one hand operation of the tool. The right angle orientation also eliminates access issues.

I also really like the bender vs my YJ bender. No wing nuts, metal bending shoes, thumb activated release and locking levers, and a good solid overall feel.
The only issue is that there is no reverse bending adapter at this time. I was told that there will be one at some point, so we'll see.
No reverse bending adapter = deal killer.
I'm using a YJ bender now, and rely heavily on the reverse bending adapter, but the plastic bending shoes with the YJ version SUCK. My 7/8 and 3/4 bending shoes are cracked at the mount. It doesn't hurt the actual bending of the pipe, but it makes getting the bent copper out of the shoe more difficult.

I plan on picking up the tubing expander as soon as it is available, but I'll hold off on the bender until the reverse bending adapter is available.

I didn't really look at any of the hand tools, nothing new there.
The dual channel thermocouple thermometer is kinda neat, but not something I'm interested in.

[mark beiser]

The one that looks like Sid looks better than the one that looks like Sponge Bob IMO LOL

OMG, I knew there was something the Hilmor gauge was reminding me of, SID!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120112174226/protagonist/images/4/4a/SIdSloth2.jpg

[ComfortService]

Is it just me or does it seem like overkill to have both analog and digital on the same gauge?
If I wanted old school fine,if I want digi's cool,but both together on the same unit?
Personally I think they failed on this one...

[hvac5646]

No features than the micron gauge? Hilmar will have to reduce the selling point considerably to gain any market share.

[hvac5646]

turns out the Gauges are assembled in the USA.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Manifold looks a lot like a YJ... the one shipped with DC's back when.... "Titan 2" ???

Mark: Did you look at the actual manifold? Do the valves feel better than the YJ? And will the DC head fit on the manifold w/out the angle adapters? Yeah, lots of info... just curious.

I do not like the angle adapters... and as such am stuck with one manifold under my DC 1250... which I really do not like (the knobs are waaaay too stiff).

A new manifold that fits the DC head direct mount would be a real PLUS!

[hvac5646]

Uncle got wind of the Hilmor and wants to buy it.

I think he's going on another "QVC" buying spree for HVAC instruments.

[mark beiser]

Mark: Did you look at the actual manifold? Do the valves feel better than the YJ? And will the DC head fit on the manifold w/out the angle adapters? Yeah, lots of info... just curious.

I do not like the angle adapters... and as such am stuck with one manifold under my DC 1250... which I really do not like (the knobs are waaaay too stiff).

A new manifold that fits the DC head direct mount would be a real PLUS!

I didn't take measurements to see if a DC gauge would fit on the manifold.

Which manifold do you currently have?
There are 3 manifolds, that I'm aware of, that the DC will fit directly on.
YJ Brute
Thermal Engineering TS-1000(The Sherman): http://fierychill.com/the-sherman-4-valve-test-and-charging-manifold-thermal-engineering-ts-1000
Digi-Cool ball valve manifold:http://www.trutechtools.com/Digi-Cool-Ball-Valve-Manifold_p_2019.html

[chuckcrj]

I didn't take measurements to see if a DC gauge would fit on the manifold.

Which manifold do you currently have?
There are 3 manifolds, that I'm aware of, that the DC will fit directly on.
YJ Brute
Thermal Engineering TS-1000(The Sherman): http://fierychill.com/the-sherman-4-valve-test-and-charging-manifold-thermal-engineering-ts-1000
Digi-Cool ball valve manifold:http://www.trutechtools.com/Digi-Cool-Ball-Valve-Manifold_p_2019.html

I think the YJ 41 fits also, could be wrong.

[stomper56]

You have to use the swivel adapters with the YJ 41, i never had any problems with the 41's but preffer the DC ball valve manifold now.

I had nothing but problems with the Sherman, its an expensive paperweight now.

[ga-hvac-tech]

You have to use the swivel adapters with the YJ 41, i never had any problems with the 41's but preffer the DC ball valve manifold now.

I had nothing but problems with the Sherman, its an expensive paperweight now.

This is what I remember hearing... the valves in the Sherman were a mess.

I really do not like the offsets... wish I could find a 4 valve other than the JY (Titan or Brute) which will fit directly to the DC.

Maybe this new Hilmor will fit...

[mark beiser]

I had nothing but problems with the Sherman, its an expensive paperweight now.

I've never had any problem with mine in the 2.5 years I've had it, but it is very heavy, and has one more set of hose ports and valve than I will ever use.
I'm ordering the DC ball valve manifold, along with a BluVac tonight.

[stomper56]

First problem i had was they valves weren't seating, i called Jim B. and he said to take some channel locks to them to help them seat initially, no problems after that but you really shouldn't have to crack down on them to seat, this was one of the first production runs so it was probably resolved.

Plus the revised handles where knuckle busters with the sharp edges and you really had to torque down on the handles to get them to seat (the original designed handles were awesome, knobbed but more smooth)

Second main problem i had with them i decided to try and pull a vac through the manifold ( i never pull through the manifold unless i have to but i decided to give it a try) Some how the c-clip that holds the handle on snapped off and the valve sucked shut, i ended up loosing the vac trying to reconnect the handle.
I think that happened on a small 7 ton unit but still it shouldn't have happened at all.

I had more problems than that but those are the top two that stick in my mind.

I think you will like the DC ball valve mani, its simple (like the YJ 41, just with ball valves) that was my go t manifold and i was use to "thumbing" the knobs to throttle reffer, the change to ball valves is easy but takes a little getting use to since its more sensitive or easier to overfeed compared to what your use to.

And i bet the blu vac will change the way you pull your vac's, it did for me anyway.

[mark beiser]

And i bet the blu vac will change the way you pull your vac's, it did for me anyway.

I decided to get a Fluke 424D laser distance meter instead of a BluVac.:o

My 13 year old YJ 6cfm pump, with 7 year old YJ super evac kit, is plenty fast, and my YJ69075 micron gauge still works great.
After my last post, I brought my vacuum gear in from the truck and cleaned everything, replaced seals, flushed the pump out, and tested it.

Once business picks back up, and we are actually selling some systems again, I'll hit my boss up for some new evacuation gear, like a TEZ8 and BluVac.
I'm hoping to get a Flir i7 to keep on my truck this year too, so I don't want to ask for to much. ;)
I also am lusting over the wireless setup that Metreco is about to start selling in the US market too...

[ga-hvac-tech]

I decided to get a Fluke 424D laser distance meter instead of a BluVac.:o

My 13 year old YJ 6cfm pump, with 7 year old YJ super evac kit, is plenty fast, and my YJ69075 micron gauge still works great.
After my last post, I brought my vacuum gear in from the truck and cleaned everything, replaced seals, flushed the pump out, and tested it.

Once business picks back up, and we are actually selling some systems again, I'll hit my boss up for some new evacuation gear, like a TEZ8 and BluVac.
I'm hoping to get a Flir i7 to keep on my truck this year too, so I don't want to ask for to much. ;)
I also am lusting over the wireless setup that Metreco is about to start selling in the US market too...]

I bought an Appion G5twin and a TEZ8 last May... You will enjoy the TEZ8!

I was kinda dissapointed with the G5... I have to use a cooling coil along with it when working with 410... or it takes forever to draw the gas out. Pump is great on liquid... just slow on gas.

One nice thing about both Appions: They weigh a lot less than other units!