How did everyone learn this trade?

[vancouvertech]

I'm a first year apprentice in the trade for roughly 1 year now. I'm off in my van by myself and I started thinking.....how do I get good at this trade, if I'm working by myself all the time. I study hard and work hard, but the way this trade is, seems a little weird sometimes. My brother is a third year plumber, and he works with a Journeyman all day everyday still. Something just seems bass-ackwards how you are thrown to the wolves in this trade. Anyone have any insight, comments, or experiences/knowledge they would like to share? When you're out there by yourself, you need to have all the answers even when you don't.

[isitfixedyet]

good luck ,,,, and god bless,
u will need it!
stay learning all u can,,,
and dont use my name until u get the true meaning of it, lol
http://www.hvactraining.com/

http://www.constructionbook.com/

[Edited by isitfixedyet on 12-08-2006 at 03:59 AM]

[2hot2coolme]

Get yourself a list of manufacturers equipment telephone numbers, they pretty much all have Tech Support, if you're good at trouble shooting while someone is guiding you through the procedures you should have No Problem.

I remember seeing a list posted here a year or 2 ago, maybe do a search.

[captinsano]

Bang head on wall repeat over and over,many years of hard lessons but it gets easier.Does help though if you have somebody to show you some tricks.now you know why we drink beer.

[isitfixedyet]

if you can , use the list to help u when u cant figure it out and ur chasing ur tail or ghost, but dont rely on it save ur career or to substitue it to ,know what ur doing and or how the equipment is to function, theres no replacement of knowing what the equipment is doing, and knowing what it is supposed to be doing or how it is supposed to run!
good thing to do is to click ont those links, i provided its a good start, if u dont have a local school!

[isitfixedyet]

have to have a basic understanding of what the equipment is doing and how it operates or should!
nothing like experience,oor for some and me too trial and error, to a point!
nothing substitutes experience, thats for sures!
theres a big difference , between a guy whos educated and a guy who doesnt know , or been to school , it shows!

[markettech]

Originally posted by vancouvertech
I'm a first year apprentice in the trade for roughly 1 year now. I'm off in my van by myself and I started thinking.....how do I get good at this trade, if I'm working by myself all the time. I study hard and work hard, but the way this trade is, seems a little weird sometimes. My brother is a third year plumber, and he works with a Journeyman all day everyday still. Something just seems bass-ackwards how you are thrown to the wolves in this trade. Anyone have any insight, comments, or experiences/knowledge they would like to share? When you're out there by yourself, you need to have all the answers even when you don't.

Things will get easier in time. Hopefully someone at the company is willing to take you under their wing. Personally, I had a hard time with electrical troubleshooting. After a year or two of struggling with this, its as if someone flipped a switch and suddenly everything started making sense.

'Guess this is what's called "paying your dues".

As far as having all the answers, I don't think anyone on this site has all the answers.

Alot of what makes you valuable to an employer isn't how much you know, but how you handle yourself in front of the customer.

[DocHVAC]

Are you working in commercial or residential?

[vancouvertech]

I'm in Commercial. We do mostly refrigeration, but a little of everything.

[acdispatch]

i went to school, then got a van. 20 years later, i am good. every call you run is a learning curve. nothing compares to running calls. those who stick it out, become awsome. those who get frustrated lose. 100 k a year is in sight. stay the course, learn from every **** call you get. a classroom cant give it to you. a van and a sick schedule can. when your tired, hot, maybe cold, burnt out, and you get the next one, dont be mad, be glad, its O.T. and you will learn. GOOD LUCK MY FRIEND.

[acdispatch]

low voltage, superheat and sub cooling. learn it. live it. it will seperate you from them. source, path, load and return. no matter what it will save you.

[R12rules]

read these threads


http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=41502&pagenumber=1

[isitfixedyet]

Originally posted by vancouvertech
I'm a first year apprentice in the trade for roughly 1 year now....... I'm off in my van...... by myself.......... and I started thinking.....how do I get good at this trade, if I'm working by myself all the time. I study hard and work hard, but the way this trade is, seems a little weird sometimes. My brother is a third year plumber, and he works with a Journeyman all day everyday still. Something just seems bass-ackwards how you are thrown to the wolves in this trade. Anyone have any insight, comments, or experiences/knowledge they would like to share? When you're out there by yourself, you need to have all the answers even when you don't. I'm off in my van ! lmfao
I'm off in my van

[vancouvertech]

Simple minds are easy to amuse.....that about sums it up.

[isitfixedyet]

kettle calls the pot black, okay "off in my van",,,?
_________________________
"OFF IN MY
VAN"-COU-VER-TECH

[pcscott]

Get a couple of phone#'s from guys who have been in the trade for a while.I have a couple who call every so often.Once in a while i stop by their job and lend a hand.Dont ever be afraid to ask for help.

[aircooled53]

Know one thing , don't try over think a problem.

Keep it simple and follow the voltage.
Keep it simple is it clean.
Keep it simple is it working , or does it have an isssue.

Remember don't try and make a system do what is was not designed to do, if the design is bad then fix it.

Low voltage
Line voltage
Airflow ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keep it simple!
superheat
sub-cooling

Air Conditioning: The amount of air changes per hour to remove heat and humidity from conditioned space.

[r2]

this is what i did and still do,

on maintenances, especially when it's slow, study the wiring diagrams. every manufacturer has a little different control scheme and the diagrams are drawn differently. a lot of them you kinda have to memorize or atleast internalize. so make sure you understand them.

study your components, relays, pressure switches, head master controls, cpr's, epr's etc. and make sure you know how they operate and how to test them.

keep a folder or two to collect manuals, articles or anything else you think you might need on a job someday.

tell your dispatchers to let you know where you're going and what kinda equipment you're working the next day and read the manual the night before. so you can try out the equipment and become familiar with it.

if you see something you're not familiar with study it and try to figure out how it works. when you get home pull up the info and read it.

spend money on tools. they'll make you faster, more professional and you can diagnose more problems.

and surely the best advice allready given is to call somebody who knows if you end up in a thight spot.

one more thing, if you see something bad or possibly going bad, document it. cover your ass and let the customer decide wether to fix it.

[markettech]

Try to get on a commercial installation job if you can. Without a doubt, the most knowledge I gained came from install jobs.

[davesrha]

In 1976 I wanted to be an auto mechanic during the summer my father got me a summer job as a helper with an A/C Company. I fell in love with the trade during this time during the next school year I enrolled in HVAC school when I finished I didnt know diddly. Fast foward 30 years and still learning and loving this trade.

[scottsacavsfan]

Originally posted by R12rules
read these threads


http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=41502&pagenumber=1


Thanks for that R12 I never seen these before

[firecontrol]

Sounds funny, but collect all the junk stuff you can get your hands on and tear it apart to find out what makes it tick. Think every part and circuit through till you can take a box full of parts and make one yourself without a diagram.
NEVER assume the power is either on or off. Never stick your tools or fingers in equipment that you assume is deengergised without first sticking your ten dollar non-contact voltage sensor in first!
Never assume the control is set where it's supposed to be.
Listen to what the customer tells you they think is wrong, thank them, then find out for yourself.
Ask the customer the relevant history of how the equipment has been acting.
Bottom line........... never assume.

Share your experiences on the job with other techs and most will share theirs.

If you learn half of your knowledge on your own away from the job, your education will be half as expensive.

[bittan]

Firecontrol, I'm with you. Trade school was good for fundamentals, but I am a "hands-on" learner. I would take old junk back home to tear it apart and better understand it. Practiced this way alot. Then the theories made sense to me once I applied them. Now its kinda fun to re-wire something.

[R12rules]

making mistakes is what made the greatest learning experiences for most of us here!

we broke something. or we shorted something together... or we installed it backwards or UPSIDE DOWN!

and those few men who walked in on us and gave us a hand rather than condemning us... these usually became life-long friends!

trial & error... try it, it works

[markettech]

making mistakes is what made the greatest learning experiences for most of us here!

we broke something. or we shorted something together... or we installed it backwards or UPSIDE DOWN!

and those few men who walked in on us and gave us a hand rather than condemning us... these usually became life-long friends!

trial & error... try it, it works

I totally agree!!!

[heatermanbob]

dont be afraid to ask questions. nothing is worse than being stumped and banging your head on a unit for several hours. also keeping all the technical and instruction manuals from equipment you install or work on is good for future reference. i download manuals off the internet frequently. dont ever try to tell yourself that you know everything.. you never will

[frostmonkey]

Vancouvertec I can totally sympathise with your situation. It wasn't too long ago that I was there.Just remember that everyone has to get their start somewhere, and any one who tells you that they didn't have problems when they started out they are full of ****. Just remember one thing its not about the mistakes you make, its about what you learn from them. There's earning, and learning on every job. Keep your chin up,and jump at every opportuity to work on a new piece of equipment. Also remember that you have one advantage that alot of Tecs didn't have years ago... A cell phone. Use it to contact someone who can help you when you get stuck. Also being on the lower mainland, you have a lot of traing at your disposal through UA local 516.

[phosgene]

You can and will survive and make it in the trade. Thats what the industry has come to. And that is how most guys get to there IP any more.
"Are you responsible and can you drive while using a cell phone, here are your van keys".
Is this method hurting the trade, yes. In our country its a 5 year apprenticeship. How can you possibly be ready in your first year.

Good luck. Find a good mentor, or two, who you can call and they will answer the phone and help. I'm TQIP'd and thank god for my mentor at least once a week. ...No you can't have his number. :D

[BigJon3475]

Still learning......and will till I die.

[hvacbear]

Went to school and then went to school more. I read everything I can get my hands on and listen to everyone. Learn to listen to the customer's complaint often they will lead you to the problem.

[Ice Man]

I was old school I am 3 rd geration My grandad start the trand in the 1940 gave to my dad and I just listen to both of them and went to rses and 609 trad school. but If you listen to the older tech. you can gane a lot of infomation. I will tell you something my grandad told me that if some one says they know it all call them a lier due to thiungs change every day and there will alway need to be some sort of tranning when i start ther was 502 r12 22 and 503 now r12/502/and 503 have allmost been gone. thangs chang but the system still work on the same desigen.I was a luck person in the trade to have help.and there a lot of smart people here on this site. that about 10 years ago no body will had throught of it beeing here hats off to all here. may god bless. Now if I could only spell lol.Ice Man

[crackertech]

It will be ok the school of hard knocks is the best way to learn the trade:D

[Snoring Beagle]

Excellent responses all.

Fireman I am also with you.

In the day before cell phones I would go to breakfast w/techs. I would not be a jerk, I listened. Pick their brains and share jokes and laugh.

Today I see young Guys alone in their trucks. Sent out on jobs because they happened to live nearby looking at something way over their heads and using that cell phone to try and get by. Working out of their homes and not really meeting up with the guys every day for breaks or daily meeting at a parts counter or office.

Seems in this day and age of supposedly more communication there is less face to face going on.

A lot of good advice in this thread.

[snowderandsons]

Has anyone been through any Technical Training Associates material? Jim Johnson is well known on the west coast and writes a trouble-shooting article in a trade rag. He has many training DVD's. I'm thinking about buying them for my trainees.

[vancouvertech]

This trade is a 5 year apprenticeship where I'm from also. I understand that most of this type of work is a "one man show", but I feel like sending apprentices to handle heating calls that no one has even explained to them, when they don't even cover gas in school until 4th year seems almost criminal...and unfair to the customer. I manage to get through the calls, and most are fairly easy, but I have not been tought one ounce of knowledge in regards to gas/heat, I have learned it all on my own. this just doesn't seem right, or fair.. There is even a clause in the union contract that states that apprentices are not to work on their own until their last two years of apprenticeship..does no one abide by these rules?.. wouldn't it make more sense from a company standpoint to train a guy well before you send him out alone?...where I'm from apprentices start at 35% of JMan wage, and you still get thrown to the wolves.

[maxster]

2 man gas calls are a thing of the past the better your on your own and doing them,and those that can't handle it won't make it.just think once they start your gas training your going to be tweeking your one man show calls that your doing now...and along with that comes that money.good point to make to your owner just in passing someday that your out making him money doing calls before your time.

[Twilly]

If your stuck you can call Twilli 1 900 hep meee. 3.99 a minute

[jeremy-lvhm]

[QUOTE=markettech;1302695]Things will get easier in time. Hopefully someone at the company is willing to take you under their wing. Personally, I had a hard time with electrical troubleshooting. After a year or two of struggling with this, its as if someone flipped a switch and suddenly everything started making sense.
QUOTE]

Amen to that. I used to look at schematics and think the people that wrote them were on drugs. I thought it was easier to learn to read Chinese. Then after staring at enough of them, and getting thrown into the light industrial field, and then full blown industrial, it all came together. It is like flipping a switch though. It's amazing how long you look at them and then all of a sudden you just get it.

As far as learning the best thing is getting out there and figuring it out as much as possible. Don't call for help every time you get stuck because then you won't learn. I got to the point eventually that I might call to bounce an idea off of another tech and would end up talking the whole thing through myself without any help anyway.

This place is also an excellent resource. Most of us never had anything like this back in the day. So use the wealth of knowledge you have here as well. If you have a true interest to learn then you will.

[Tech Rob]

I started out banging sheet metal, did that for several years while going through my service apprenticeship. I turned out, and exposed myself to a little bit of everything with a couple different companies, before I finally got on with a real live service company, and now I learn something new every day. Mostly from this website. I'm constantly asking the senior journeyman techs at the shop about stuff I read about on here.

[skorepeo]

I'm a first year apprentice in the trade for roughly 1 year now. I'm off in my van by myself and I started thinking.....how do I get good at this trade, if I'm working by myself all the time. I study hard and work hard, but the way this trade is, seems a little weird sometimes. My brother is a third year plumber, and he works with a Journeyman all day everyday still. Something just seems bass-ackwards how you are thrown to the wolves in this trade. Anyone have any insight, comments, or experiences/knowledge they would like to share? When you're out there by yourself, you need to have all the answers even when you don't.



Plumbers need more help due to the fact that when you are knee deep in sh@# it is nice to have someone else to blame, that darn bleepin apprentice must have not listened again sorry about your toilet overflowing:D


Since you are all by yourself and have no one to blame you will learn new phrases such as yes sir I did replace that motor and it should be working correctly now! must be some other part that went bad after I changed the motor but not to worry I will be there soon to find that part and change it out but my recommendation is to have a new unit installed because parts might just keep going bad:D


Seriously now after 1 year of hands on training it is time to start thinking for yourself. Using your own brain will will keep it sharp and you can retain more.

The basics are the basics troubleshooting electric problems is easy. Just follow the sequence of events that are supposed to take place for proper operation using your meter from one sequence to the next until you get a bad reading. Test the part that you have a bad reading on replace then start again from the beginning if there are multiple problems. The best thing you can do is to think! think! think! why did this part fail? then fix the reason of failure and you will enjoy not hearing complaints about incompetent work!!

Refrigeration problems are not all that hard if you understand the principle of thermodynamics. You have to think logically and know what the equipment specs are and how the metering device works. First verify proper airflow then start at the compressor and take temperature readings at every point that is supposed to have a specific change. When the temp reading does not match what it is supposed to be the problem is in the area from the last good reading to this reading. Just think! think! think! what components are between here and there? Then follow the logic of thermodynamics and you will know! whats wrong.

Now I know you are not going to be a parts changer!! right!!

[mustardman]

This trade is a 5 year apprenticeship where I'm from also. I understand that most of this type of work is a "one man show", but I feel like sending apprentices to handle heating calls that no one has even explained to them, when they don't even cover gas in school until 4th year seems almost criminal...and unfair to the customer. I manage to get through the calls, and most are fairly easy, but I have not been tought one ounce of knowledge in regards to gas/heat, I have learned it all on my own. this just doesn't seem right, or fair.. There is even a clause in the union contract that states that apprentices are not to work on their own until their last two years of apprenticeship..does no one abide by these rules?.. wouldn't it make more sense from a company standpoint to train a guy well before you send him out alone?...where I'm from apprentices start at 35% of JMan wage, and you still get thrown to the wolves.

I hear what you are saying. Been a jman about 3 yrs. Your cell phone is why you can be by yourself and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we all did it and you will have to give it your best shot no one expects a first year guy to be perfect. One of my journeyman once told me suck it up buttercup and figure it out. i suggest you do the same.

[okieair]

We all go through it. I was thrown to the wolves as well and spent the first two months wondering everyday if I was going to make it. I have never had such a lack of confidence and self doubt. I wondered how my company made money with any call I went to. You know, I got through it and with every call felt better about the job I was doing. I now get the calls all day from the new guys trying to figure things out they haven't seen before. And still, after ten years doing this I still have a day now and again when every call makes me feel stupid but I just suck it up and think tomorrows gonna be better. It has to be.

[wuffdog]

I started in this trade back in 1979. Went to Ferris State University and got my AAS in HVAC. Best learning environment other than hands on training.In the midwest at that time was difficult finding a service job without hands on experience. Even the apprentice field was who you knew to get into that field. Joined the Army as an AC mechanic and worked my way thru the ranks, plus picked up alot of other experiences that have greatly enhanced my hvac career after I retired. To really do well in this field you need to have a great work ethic, a desire to learn to perfect your trade. (I learn something new everyday). I read alot about the new equipment, ask alot of questions and wont take no for an answer. What I have found that has helped me the most is the basics. If you understand the refrigeration cycle, ie: subcooling, superheat, and the thermodynamics of refrigeration, you can troubleshoot and figure out any refrigeration problem. Basic electrical will help you in your troubleshooting. I abhor parts changers, would rather fix a system than sell a replacement if at all possible and fesable for the customer. Above all else HONESTY with the customer and yourself. Never walk away from a job were you didn't give your best. There is no shame in calling for help when you can't figure it out. The customer will never know you called unless you tell them. They will think you are good at what you do. Now don't forget what you did, so the next time you will remember what needs to be done. Strive to be the best in your shop. I've seen where older techs than me have changed the way they use to do things, because of my work ethic, of not cutting corners, and doing the job right the first time. Do I know everything, no way but Istrive to be the best at what I do and don't get the holyier than thou attitude. Love what you do and do what you love. Enjoy your job and it can reward you.

[hvacbear]

I started in this trade back in 1979. Went to Ferris State University and got my AAS in HVAC. Best learning environment other than hands on training.In the midwest at that time was difficult finding a service job without hands on experience. Even the apprentice field was who you knew to get into that field. Joined the Army as an AC mechanic and worked my way thru the ranks, plus picked up alot of other experiences that have greatly enhanced my hvac career after I retired. To really do well in this field you need to have a great work ethic, a desire to learn to perfect your trade. (I learn something new everyday). I read alot about the new equipment, ask alot of questions and wont take no for an answer. What I have found that has helped me the most is the basics. If you understand the refrigeration cycle, ie: subcooling, superheat, and the thermodynamics of refrigeration, you can troubleshoot and figure out any refrigeration problem. Basic electrical will help you in your troubleshooting. I abhor parts changers, would rather fix a system than sell a replacement if at all possible and fesable for the customer. Above all else HONESTY with the customer and yourself. Never walk away from a job were you didn't give your best. There is no shame in calling for help when you can't figure it out. The customer will never know you called unless you tell them. They will think you are good at what you do. Now don't forget what you did, so the next time you will remember what needs to be done. Strive to be the best in your shop. I've seen where older techs than me have changed the way they use to do things, because of my work ethic, of not cutting corners, and doing the job right the first time. Do I know everything, no way but Istrive to be the best at what I do and don't get the holyier than thou attitude. Love what you do and do what you love. Enjoy your job and it can reward you.


Ferris sure has done me right. I just finished the HVAC courses for my BS HVAC/R (online) and the classes were outstanding. They have definately helped me. I agree 100% with the above your individual drive and professionalism will carry you a long way. Ferris is a great place and their new facilities are outstanding.

My story is a lot like yours only I went in the military then to Ferris. As a side note thanks for your service and paving the way for those of us who are serving now.

[smokies]

After graduating high school I went to a local technical institute and took one of those test they give you to see what type of career you'll be good at. I like the idea of HVAC because noone I knew was doing it and I thought it would be cool to do something different. After taking the test, they told me to find something else. I hate being told I can't do something. I enrolled in the classes and completed the program. I then entered the apprenticeship program at a local union. Many people do not like the unions - I would not be in the situation am in without them. They have been very good to me. I have been working for a local mechanical company for almost 15 yrs and now I'm back in school to obtain my AS from WCC and BS from Ferris State.

If you're the type of person who never want's to stop learning, this can be a great trade. Be dedicated, be humble, never stop learning, and find fullfillment within yourself and everything will workout - I guess that's true about every career.

[agentphelps]

First off everyone in this trade tends to gravitate towards there own specialty.
For some its AC for others its Heat. (that can even be broken down to Radiant or forced air, Oil or gas) Some of us mainly work on industrial/commercial systems, some of us only residential. Some only install, some only troubleshoot and repair, some do both.
The point here is you could work 50 or more years in this trade and not know everything. If most of us here were truthful …..That’s why were on this site …to learn from the experiences of others. You’ll do fine. (Also the more calls you run the more of a Expert you’ll become.):D

[BobbyBJr]

All good advice. I went to work for a heating contractor in 1988 and they put me with a guy that was to train me for a few weeks to do clean and checks. Over lunch I found out that he had just started a week before me...lol. Anyway, I spent a lot of time on the radio we had back then and a lot of time asking questions, but I finally got to the point where I thought I was a decent tech. Now almost 20 years later, I'd say read every manual or piece of info you can get your hands on. You'll learn a little something from every one. Ask lots of questions and never be afraid to call for help. And yeah, read this site as often as possible. You will be okay, but it does take a few years to really get comfortable and get your confidence up.

[subzerori]

I learned from the school of hard knocks. After a few frustrating years, ok more than a few it was like a brick hit me in the head and I started to understand it. I didn't know it just understood it. I tell all new techs to take out the next screw, check the next electrical connection, go one step further you will probably find the problem if not check the next step. Break it down, Somedays it seems like I have to break it before I can fix it. It is all part of the game. Don't give up.

[aruddick]

I spent a year in tech school. Graduated 4th in the class. Looking back, man I didn't know much:eek:. Spent several years learning the hard way(try this and try that). At least I worked for an old guy that had every part known to man (and some that were not lnown) in our stock room. I worked for him for 10 years before he sold to a consolidator. He is long retired and I still see him alot. He called me one night to fix his furnace.

[*Graham*]

Yeah it's pretty messed up, I'm first year right now, mostly doing commercial and industrial construction. It's very frustrating trying to do a good job in a reasonable amount of time when you don't know what you're doing.