Having problems getting new Quadra-Fire Mt Vernon Pellet Stove AE seviced.

[ayoder]

I purchased a new Mt Vernon Pellet Stove "Advanced Energy" last Friday (11/10/06). Took the wood stove out and installed the new Mt. Vernon on Saturday (11/11/06) and plugged it in. Nothing works!!!!!!!!! Contacted dealer at 2:30 PM of which they commented their was nothing they could do till Monday morning. Called Quadra-Fire's 800 number, but their office is closed. Well on Monday morning (11/13/06) I got a call from the dealer of which they said they would come to the house to check it out. They checked it agreed that nothing appears to be working. They called Quadra-Fire and did some trouble shooting? They will be sending a new thermostat. Asked them to overnight it so we could have some heat the following day. Didn't get a call back confirming that they would be shipping it out. At 5:00 EST I called Quadra-Fire, took around 40 minuts till someone answered. They were real pleasent on the pnone and helpfull/sympothetic. Explained to her problem w/ screw falling out of power supply and that it needs replaced. She asked me to check the voltage on the red & white wire connecting to the circuet board. But could not get any current reading. Asked her to send me a new power supply. But no, she has to go through the dealer. Gave her the dealer phone number. She called the dealer, then called me back, stating that a service person (Dealer) would once more stop at the house in the morning. Boy what a put off. On Tuesday morning (11/14/06) the dealer had 2 service people stop in to trouble shoot our problem. They tried contacting Quadra-Fire at 9:30 AM EST and couldn't understand why they were not accepting any phone calls. At 9:50 they left. My wife calls me at work and said they just left and did nothing to fix the stove. I took off work and came home and called Quadra_Fire. Explained to them how it appears no progress is being made here. Explained to her what I had tested in reference to the power supply. She said once more, she would contact the dealer. The dealer calls and says they ordered a new thermostat. The thermostat is the problem. Stoped in at the dealer and explained to them that they need to order a new power supply. Dealer stopped at the house and then called me at work to find out where the power supply was located. The dealer has expresed to me that they really have no idea as to how this stove works.

Is their any way to get through to Quadra-Fire so I can get the required needed parts for getting this unit to work?????????????

[jtp10181]

A dealer can order any part you want if you pay for it. If they think it is broken they will replace it under warranty. Sounds like they are doing what they can to repair it. This unit JUST came out within the last month so be patient, its just like anything new that comes out, no one has had to fix them yet. If you are anywhere near Madison, WI, I could help you out, otherwise you can check quads site to see if you have any other dealers nearby that might have someone. Look for someone Pellet NFI Certified.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello ayoder!


Sorry you are having trouble with your new stove.

I find your post somewhat frustrating because you don't give a good description of what the repairman tested and what they found to be defective and why. As I am hearing you describe the problem, it seems to vary between a bad thermostat, a bad power supply and a screw that has fallen out of the power supply.

I find it difficult to understand why several different problems have been diagnosed, and therefore I'm not confident you are relating the problem in a way I can understand what is going on.

I'm actually kind of impressed that several different repair people showed up promptly to diagnose the problem, although it doesn't seem they have sold you that they have found the actual problem.


The bottom line for me is that your post doesn't provide enough information to know whether the problem(s) have been correctly diagnosed. Then again, I'm not a pellet stove Xpert, so what do I know?


May I ask what kind of wood stove you pulled out and why? Are you ready to put it back in again?!




Seattle Pioneer

[ayoder]

Thanks for responding to my frustrations.

I am a consumer trying to get someone, the dealer, to fix the pellet stove manufactured by "Quadra-Fire" (Hearth & Home Tech.).
The stove is called "Mt Vernon Pellet Stove AE" (Advanced Energy).

After connecting the wall module (looks like a thermostat) and plugging in the stove, it is supposed to show a display on the wall module. Their is nothing. The tech. (dealer) was to test to see if their was any power on the red and green connection to the wall module and they said it had power and the problem was the thermostat.
I checked the wires and could not get any voltage readings whatsoever. Then tested the power supply and it as well didn't show any voltage. This is when I asked them (Quadra-Fire) to send me a power supply and I would give them Credit Card to charge it to and we could work out the warranty info. later. They refused and said they would contact the dealer. They, Quadra-Fire, did not communicate this to the dealer but instead ordered a new wall module. My communication skills must not be too greate either.

Well, got the new wall module today and still nothing is working. That did not make any difference. Now they (dealer) says the power supply is in the mail. Should have it tomarrow.

The dealer appears to have no idea at all how this pellet stove is to work and they have no idea where to start on this. That is only my observation.

If the stove is not working tomorrow, I will be pulling the unit out and set it outside with the rest of the cold weather. Then go to the dealer and get my money back, with an explaination of me being his walking bill-board (bad experiances explained to people I get in contact w/). Then I will be going to a different dealer w/ hopefully better service and stove support. I am looking for recommendations for a good pellet stove. Give me your recommendations.

The reason for me wanting to swap out the existing stove (Country Comfort a small unit), is as follows:

1) When I got fire wood I would have to cut it again so it would fit in the stove.
2) The wood was economical, but harder for my wife to maintain a constant fire.
3) Would have to relight the fire every morning.
4) Also am looking for an "easy to maintain stove" for if I am not around any more, my wife will be able to maintain it fairly easily.

So glad someone is actually reading my responses and conserns.

Thanks again for reading and responding.

[hearthman]

I haven't read through the whole post yet but Quad is located in Colville, Washington as in Left Coast, as in 3 hr. time zone difference. If you call in the morning, they are still asleep.

My advice, email them with the serial number. You get better service and it creates an audit trail.

I'll read it again and see if I can come up with some answers.

Hang in there!

BTW, what area do you live in?

[ayoder]

We live in Gnadenhutten, Ohio. This is about 35 miles south of Canton, OH (Football Hall of Fame).

[Collin]

Sounds like the dealer is trying but why did you not buy from someone who would install it?

[SeattlePioneer]

<<The reason for me wanting to swap out the existing stove (Country Comfort a small unit), is as follows:

1) When I got fire wood I would have to cut it again so it would fit in the stove.
2) The wood was economical, but harder for my wife to maintain a constant fire.
3) Would have to relight the fire every morning.
4) Also am looking for an "easy to maintain stove" for if I am not around any more, my wife will be able to maintain it fairly easily.>>


Sorry you are still having no success getting the pellet stove to work. I can really only offer tea and sympathy, since I'm not a pellet stove Xpert and it sounds like your new stove is high tech enough to be beyond the ability of your local techs to understand. That's tough. I hope the power supply works, but I wonder if they are just guessing and throwing parts at it praying that they will, by chance, replace the right one.

That's really not an adequate way of troubleshooting equipment, in my view.


That's an interesting list of reasons to get rid of the wood stove. I recommissioned my woodstove this year after ten years of sucking up natural gas for heat.

I posted a few days ago on my experiences using poplar as a fuel ----I wasn't getting enough heat with the larger chunks of wood I was using. I decided that the chunks need to be smaller to have enough surface area to burn faster and thus produce more heat ----that seems to be improving things. I discovered I needed to adapt more carefully to the fuel I was using, rather than just pitching in wood. So I'm getting closer to "nature" as I gain my experience with this fuel.

The chainsaw makes short work of cutting wood. A year ago I was using a ten pound sledge to hammer a splitting maul, and a chunk of steel about the size of a .38 caliber bullet broke off and buried itself about 4" deep in the muscle of my thigh ---lucky it didn't hit anything more sensitive! That was a visit to a Dr for treatment. The chainsaw seems safer.


Yeah, things cool off by morning, but on the bright side I'm highly motivated to get the fire going!

Anyway, I'm slowly getting back into the wood heat culture. It'll take more time to solve all the problems so things are working at peak efficiency, and by then I suppose I'll again be bored with cutting, firebuilding, stoking and ash removal.

But for now, it's still fun.



Seattle Pioneer

[jtp10181]

I am looking for recommendations for a good pellet stove. Give me your recommendations.

The one you already have... its the best. Top of the line new technology.

[ayoder]

Installation is not the problem. The dealer would have installed it, at a price and I really had no problems installing it. The problem is with the electonics in the stove.

I got it from a local dealer in our neighboring town of New Philadlephia, about 7 miles from our home. The dealer is "Quaker Fireplace" which is own by "Sugarcreek Heating and Air Conditioning" also known as "Blauch Heating and Air Conditioning". The next dealer is around 35 - 40 miles. The hvac technicians were from "Sugarcreek Heating and Air Conditioning".

I did look for an email address for Quadra-Fire, but couldn't find one on the web. I did post a question to then last Saturday using the "Ask a Question" and they said I would hear back from them within 3 days. It's 5 days now and still have not received a call back from them on this question that was posted.

I did go with the "Mt Vernon Pellet Stove AE" b/c it could burn alternative fuels other than wood pellets like corn and do beleive it would be a great stove, if it were working.

Maybe the power supply will fix the problem. But I guess I still need to search out for a good reputable dealer to support me with this unit.

Thanks for all of your input and encouragement.

[ayoder]

It's working just great now!!!!

After replacing the defective power supply, last night, it iniciated the startup cycle and works just fine. I am really impressed w/ this stove, now after it is working.

Currently working on the problem with the ash tray not sealing off properly. It is gasketed with the rope type seal all aroung where it meets the stove. But appears to not having enough pressure against it to seal it off properly. Used "C" clamps on both sides to create more of a compression to seal it, for now. I will be mounting a De-Sta-Co type pull clamp (one that will look good).

I have also investigated into using a different dealer, one that will be able to service this unit, if need be. But he is like 1 - 1.5 Hr's from here. What I may be able to do, is do the diagnosing and call him for ordering parts/services as needed.

Thanks again for all of your help and encouragement,

Andy

[hearthman]

Glad its working. Don't forget the wall control holds error codes and the last 22 functions performed.

Soon, you'll be able to plug in a USB cable or phone cord into the control and download software patches or possibly even send data back to Colville for analysis.

Please keep us posted how this ground breaking next generation stove performs.
Thx,

[leeann]

We purchased one too back in August, we were sold the discontinued model.....We were neer told we could pre order the newer model.....We had continual problems, the stove would just go out on us right after it would fire up...We had techs out twice, one of those time with a "company rep" YEAH RIGHT!! a fricken District Sales Manager, who was clueless on how to maintenance these things! After their "tweeks" it worked ok FOR ONE DAY then all hell broke loose with it, we have no clue what they did but....

If you arn't getting anywhere with this compnay, so as we did...We filed a dispute with our credit card company siting a defective item and requested that the charge be removed.....I also filed complaints with both Better Business Bureaus..One for the Manufacturer, and one for the dealer.....The dealer told us this was a NON RETURNABLE item....WRONG!!
I got a call today from the dealer and they are coming out to remove this defective Stove....

Make as much noise as you can, complain to anyone that will listen! Trust me the last thing these people want is bad press.

Good Luck!

[ayoder]

Deja Vue all over again!

Since installation of the stove on 11/11/06, the stove has only worked 8 out of the 18 days and is now once again not working.

It stopped working on Sunday (11/26/06) with the "Conv Blower Jammed" error on the display.

Contacted the dealer, early Monday morning with information as to error. Dealer contacted Quadra-Fire as soon as they could get through to them on the phone, then called me back saying the parts (blower and wiring harness) will be shipped "Next Day" to them for installation.

Well now it is Tuesday. At noon, I checked with dealer to see if they did indeed receive the parts. No, they did not receive any of the parts. At the latest, these parts should have been received and installed the next day!!!

I called Quadra-Fire to get information as to when I could expect the parts to arrive. They refused to give me any information, saying I will need to contact the dealer. Expressed my disappointment with their (Quadra-Fire) service. They gave me a case number and said they will check it out. I presume this may be something like the question I had previously posted on Quadra-Fire's web site and didn't get an answer back till 7 days later. This is not at all expectable. Very poooooor service to consumers or to me anyway.

I am getting very concerned for when and if I have any problems with the stove a year from now. Will they be giving me this same support? This was a new stove and has been in service for only 18 days, but has only worked 8 out of these 18 days and is not working at this time.

Could it be that I got a lemon?

Well, this is the final straw. I am not going to fix this baby this time. If the stove is not working when I get home from work tomorrow evening, it will be removed and set outside.

This is a great looking stove and when it is working, it does produce heat and dumps the ashes. But, at this time, I really would not recommend this stove to anyone.

[jtp10181]

You are a very impatient person. I bet you are very rude to the dealer and that is only going to make them want to help you less. Right now if someone calls us with a broken fireplace they have to wait 2 weeks because we are booked solid for service, unless it is some sort of emergency in which case I myself will go out within a few days. Expecting next day service on a new product during the burn season is unreasonable at best.

[leeann]

Are we as consumers just suppose to lay down and put up with a MAJORLY DEFECTIVE product? We have the right to return any defective item.....I am sure if you have experienced some of the problems that some of us Quardra Fire owners have you may think differently.....Unreasonable I AM NOT!! I did expect more from a nearly $3000. product! I had MORE problems after the "Factory Rep" or District Sales Manager ( which is all he was) he instructed the tech from my dealer on what to do to our stove.....This guy didn't even know how to fix anything, he was thumbing through the owners manuel as to try and figure out what to do.....My ENTIRE inside of my stove was ENGULFED in flames after their little visit!

I simply did not feel safe with this product in my home, and YES! This is my right!

Like the other poster with some of the same problems....I called QuadraFire and got shoved from one phone line to another, NO ONE at that company could or would give me any real answers on who I could talk to to get this problem taken care of. The dealer just didn't want to loose a sale, BUT I was not getting stuck with a BAD PRODUCT!

Sooooo.....No one would listen to me or my conserns, so I made them listen through the Better Business Bureau and filing the dispute. And yes! I did raise my voice to a few people, because that is the only way they seemed to take me seriously!

I am sorry if you think I am unresonable for expecting more from a product that just didn't meet my expectations!

[leeann]

Sorry you are still having problems with your stove....

They are great looking and work great, WHEN they want to work, but the problems for us out numbered the enjoyment we were looking forward to.

I do hope you get the outcome you are seeking! But like I said, if they wont listen, MAKE THEM!

Take care and good luck!

[hearthman]

I am very sorry you two have had such a bad experience. Quad has a pretty good reputation within the industry.

As for your impatience, while you have been through a lot with this stove and I'm sure very frustrated, they aren't going to hire a jet fighter to swoop in, pick up the part and parachute it to you. You said the dealer didn't make contact with them until later on Monday. They probably had to track down an engineer and discuss a course of action, get approval, then put the request in to have the part sent overnite. That order probably did not get placed until Tues morning after 09:00am Left Coast Time.If Fed Ex picked up the package later on Tues, that means the earliest your dealer could possibly see it is Weds. before closing and you're already busting on them because the SWAT team hasn't rappelled down with your part. This time of yr., it is normal for parts to take about 2 weeks to get to you, for example, regardless of mfr. Some take months.

I'm sorry, you have had a lot of problems with this unit. However, when I read your impatience and attitude, I do bein to wonder if JTP may not be right. You bought the stove in the heart of the burn season. Think of air conditioning in July during a heat wave. You are not going to get the same service as you can in March or Oct. are you? They are under staffed because the factory is in the middle of nowhere and the talent pool is very thin. They are doing the best they can. You bought the first run of a brand new technology. Many people hold off when a new car model is released waiting for the bugs to get worked out. Those who buy brand new models usually understand there may be some bugs to work out. I think you could adjust your expectations down a little and be a little more cooperative.

There's an old saying, "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". If you want more cooperation from your dealer or the mfr. try a softer approach.

Good luck

[ayoder]

I wish I could live in your world of make-beleive. What world are you guys living in? It appears you may have diffaculty understanding what it means when someone says "The Parts will be shipped Next Day Air".

Just maybe you couldn't understand what I was trying to say. I will try once more to explain as best I can. May have sounded way off the wall?

I am once again having issues w/ the new Mt Vernon Pellet Stove. Getting error "Conv Blower Jammed". The stove starts by feeding pellets, then lights them (actual flames do start) and produces heat. When the convection blower tries to start, it goes for a short time then stops with the error.

Contacted the dealer (Monday morning), who in turn contacted Quadra-Fire. Dealer called me back around 11:00AM EST on Monday 11/27/06 (this would be around 8:00AM, as you say, left coast time) and said they (dealer) were informed that the parts will be shipped next day air from Quadra-Fire.

In my line of bussiness, this has always and still does mean that the sender will be shipping the parts, that same day (Monday 11/27/06) Next Day Air to the dealer and the dealer will receive the parts on or before 12:00 noon on the following day.

What I am interpreting your previous post to say, is:
This is not what "Next Day Air" means for Quadra-Fire or your line of business. You stated that the issue may go to Engineering, then if and when a decision or approval has been granted, they (Engineering) will inform the manufacturing facilaty to go ahead and get parts ready to ship and, by the way, the manufacturing facility is out in the country and the people have limeted skills. Then when the parts are ready to ship, they should be shipped using next day air and don't complain if it doesn't ship till 14 more days.

Also, by the way, because I bought a new type of stove and actually paid money for it, I need to expect it not to work from time to time. If it is out of commision for more than 50% of the time, you are indeed expecting me to just step back and wait for everything to fall back in place as and when the dealer and Quadra-Fire elect to act. Just relax, the parts are in the mail. It will work eventually. But it is a good looking stove. Doesn't work, but it looks like it should.

This is how I interpreted what you are trying to tell me. You may have intended something else, but that is what it ment to me. You also informed me that expecting an actual "Next Day Delivery" would be way out of line and unreasonable. You really do need to get back in touch with today's technology of "Next Day Air".

If this is indeed what you are intending it to mean, and you were my dealer, I really prefer not to deal with you at all and would search out a new dealer.

But thanks anyway, for your thoughts.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hey ayoder!



Sorry you are still having problems with your stove.


You might be expecting fast service based on your experience with other businesses and industries, but you don't have a contractual right to such service based on a simple contract.

Did you include the phrase "time is of the essence with any repair or problem with this equipment" in the contract when you purchased the equipment? If so, you probably have a right to such quick service. If you didn't, you don't.

The manufacturer has an obligation to replace any defective parts under the warrentee, but I'd be surprised if they have any obligation to ship them out next day air, even if they say they will. Or perhaps the parts were unavailable when the order got to the warehouse. You may be unhappy, but in such cases I doubt that the manufacturer is breeching it's warrentee.

Ditto for the dealer. They can't install the parts until they receive them, and they have no particular obligation to install the parts ahead of other people waiting for service and repairs.


You can disconnect the equipment and put it "outside," but you already bought it ---you have no contractual right to expect the dealer to take it back because there are problems with it that need to be repaired.

So here's my question: where in your contract did you include labguage that gave you the right to return the equipment if you were unhappy with it, or to get next day air shipping for parts that were needed or instant installation of the parts once they were received? If you included such language, then you are entitled.

If you didn't, the manufacturer and dealer have to make repairs and do so in a reasonable manner. But I don't think your ideas of service are reasonable.


That's not to say that I blame you for being impatient to want you new equipment to work properly. I don't blame you a bit, and I'd feel the same way.

But I'd encourage you to think a bit about what rights you actually have under the contract, which are different from those you WISH you had. Going too far in brow beating some employee for the manufacturer or dealer may be counterproductive at some point.

Be smart. Treat them in a way that gets them to feel sorry for you and like jerks themselves for not solving the problems of your stove. That will probably get you better service faster than being angry at them.


Seattle Pioneer

[ayoder]

Dealer stopped in last night and replaced some parts.

Now it will not light up or start a fire at all. He replaced parts, told my wife "It should be starting up shortly, if it doesn't start, give us a call", then he left. Well, it's not working again.

[ayoder]

(11/29/06 PM)
I went ahead and took the stove and set it outside (under the porch) for the dealer to come and pick up.

(11/30/06)
Dealer called to check how stove was working and was told that it had been removed.
My wife got a call from Hearth & Home regional rep/office informing her that they will be getting the stove to work and I should give him a call. Didn't know they even had a regional office. Gave him a call and left message on his voice mail. Haven't heard from him as yet (12/5/06).
Tech. (Sugarcreek Heating & AC) stopped to work on stove and my wife informed him that it was ready for him to take back. He was back a short time later with help to load into truck. No hassele their and they will be crediting my credit card.

It is nice to use a credit card for these issues, b/c they (credit card people) will work with you in disputing any claimes, if need be.

Well now I will need to get busy once more in searching out for a new Pellet Stove. No, it will not be a Hearth and Home (Quadra-Fire) product.

I do appologize if I was rude and/or appeared to be rude in any way. I truly do appreciate all of your comments and encouragement. Still am in total amazement at what little support service and guidance I could get from the actual manufacture of the stove. I presume they really do not wish to be bothered at all, by the consumer.

Thanks again everyone for allowing me to use you as a sounding board in venting my frustrations.

Andy

[hearthman]

Andy, I sent a link to this thread to some Regional Sales Reps. I know and they were deeply concerned. Apparently, this thread has caught the attention of some brass so hopefully change will come.

As for the problems with the new stove, the Rep. explained that one of the problems found with the power supply was in the heat sinks. The supplier of this component is new to the hearth industry (medical equipment), and new to HHT for their quality assurance measures. What they found was the screws retaining the heat sinks vibrated loose causing the unit to overheat and shut off. A little Loctite and some changes in the Q&A program should take care of it. This just goes to show that no matter how much testing is done in the lab, the real world is the ultimate lab.

As for this particular model stove, the designer claims he was given "an unlimited buget" and exceeded it. Maybe with all the hoopla over this stove, some aspects of reliability were simply not tested before it was rushed to market. You see, every mfr. is in a rush to get a leg up on the competition. As soon as an engineer announces a concept the brass likes, the genie is out of the bottle. It becomes a mad rush to get a working model in time for the Int'l Bldr. Show in January each yr. About 4-6 weeks after that is the big Hearth, Patio, and BBA Assn. EXPO where it is unveiled to the hearth industry. Here, it is entered into a design competion called the Vesta Awards. This unit won first place this Spring in Salt Lake City. From there on, it was a mad rush to work out the bugs and get it to market. At the show, the unit was being run off a laptop computer behind a curtain. Into the summer, the suppliers for the various components were still being evaluated and oriented. Just when you think you have things worked out, you find your supplier switch his sources for materials and parts without telling you. There are signed agreements against this. Such matters affect the product listing if it is serious enough. That's why UL spot checks quarterly.

I shared this because a lot of people read this thread so I wanted them to understand what goes into bringing a product to market, esp. one so highly touted as a whole next generation model, which this certainly is. Its just a shame ya'll had to be the guinea pigs on these first units. Like all products, this one has a learning curve. You just got caught in the traffic.

The good news is, there are many other good brands out there. They all have their ups and downs with service. While things in your case certainly could have and should have been handled better, overall, the mfr. responded pretty well and did the right thing. I can understand why you may feel biased against this mfr, who I have no personal interest in other than I know them well and have their Castile pellet stove, which works great.

I hope your take away lesson from this more so than brands and models is dealer support. If your local dealer is too far away or not responsive, shop elsewhere. Ask for references.

Good luck,
Hearthman

[jtp10181]

Great post hearthman, every bit is 100% truth.

Only thing else I can say is I wish you had been near me. I would have personaly came out and worked on it myself to get it working for you.

[SeattlePioneer]

Good post Hearthman! It's nice to get an idea of what they are doing behind the curtain.


I always imagine that Dilbert and his work group are designing gas fireplaces when I find one that is a pain in the neck to work on. But perhaps it's pellet stoves instead.

This thread should be a warning to those early adaoptors who want all the latest and most hyped technology. That can be a big pain in the neck until unanticipated problems have been worked out.



Seattle Pioneer

[Collin]

I have watched this thread with interest from the sidelines.
Today, I robbed a log support from a showroom insert to install in my customers fireplace. They have patiently waited two weeks for this part (missing from the brand new box). I have waited over 3 MONTHS for a simple valve cover for another unit I sold to someone else.

There is another client who bought 4 fireplaces from me for their new home, the one in the Great Room makes a loud roaring noise after running for more than an hour.
Manufacturer says this is normal.:(

My point?
It sucks when your suppliers make it hard for you to give your customers good service, but that is the reality of todays competitive marketplace. The fireplace industry is currently going full boar, and everyone wants their unit installed before Christmas.
I would suggest the original poster do some research, and make his purchase in late January when the hearth industry has a chance to catch it's breath.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Collin.


I've posted a couple of times on how high levels of demand for service have compromised the way I would prefer to treat customers.

I prefer to answer my cell phone, talk to customers directly and schedule repair work the same day, or within a day or two. Too many calls and I can't even answewr the phone, it drives me nuts.


Some people understand that, others do not. It's like going shopping the night before Christmas.



Seattle Pioneer

[hearthman]

There was an article printed in SNEWS magazine written by John Wisnewski about customers calling for same day service being NUTS----You know, Not Understanding The Season! He actually calls people NUTS when they call this time of yr. wanting to know if he can get to them the next day. I prefer to compare it to getting an air conditioning tech in July or Aug. Most people then understand and those who don't just qualified themselves as idiots or jerks.

[SeattlePioneer]

When scheduling my work, my #1 priority is to provide service to anyone who might have a claim under a guarantee. Secondly are people who've reported a repeat of the problem when I've repaired their equipment.

Taking care of those people is more important than doing a repair call that will earn me money.


Additional note:


One of my theories is that God made 24 hours in a day so that HVAC repairman would always have time to do one more call in a pinch.



Seattle Pioneer

[plowjockey]

Well we purchased a Quadrafire as well and had similar results. The stove has not worked a complette 24 hr period yet and it has been almost a full month. we have replaced the convection fan and main computer board. The stove still doesnt work. I am from Canada and I paid 5500 dolars to get it installed. I have been very nice to my local dealer and to the wholesaler as well. That has not brought me in any heat to my home. forecast of -43c this week. When I bought the stove the factory rep told me that millions had been spent in research and the stove was the best. wow do I wonder if they are even on the up and up. Maybe the factory should look at giving us a rebate for all of our troubles.

[blueflame]

Well we purchased a Quadrafire as well and had similar results. The stove has not worked a complette 24 hr period yet and it has been almost a full month. we have replaced the convection fan and main computer board. The stove still doesnt work. I am from Canada and I paid 5500 dolars to get it installed. I have been very nice to my local dealer and to the wholesaler as well. That has not brought me in any heat to my home. forecast of -43c this week. When I bought the stove the factory rep told me that millions had been spent in research and the stove was the best. wow do I wonder if they are even on the up and up. Maybe the factory should look at giving us a rebate for all of our troubles.

Can you describe what it is doing?

[plowjockey]

Well it is overfeeding and I think there is not enough air speed in the fire pot to acheive proper burn. After I changed the boards the fire still lights well and then just over feeds a weak fire until it backs up into the pellet feed tube and jamms the auger. I started burning wheat at first then gave up and switched to pellets untill I get it sorted out because the smell of half burnt grain is not the most pleasent of odours. the stove seemed to be getting progressively worce day after day. The only setting that I can run my stove on right now to maintain any fire is on the corn setting burning premium wood pellets. I hope it continues as it is -34c tonight. I did have to change the temp controler when it was new because the read out was faulty. My dealer is tring however this is the first one that he has sold. They sell Harman normally. Every time they drive out it is an 90 mile drive for them.

[blueflame]

If you are burning pellets, try changing the setting to utility, flame height -3.

[plowjockey]

When I switch off corn my exhaust fan will slow down and the stove will over feed untill the fire goes out or the auger jams. I am tring it now again.

[blueflame]

Can you check to see what version control board you have in your stove? When you look at the control board it will have something like A5 or B2 on the label.

[plowjockey]

the old board I took out was a p/n 450-15-0031 Rev. B4
Mfg. Date 063112 Didn't see a label on the new one.

[blueflame]

Plowjocket
What happen when you switched to utility and flame height -3. You should also try -5.

[plowjockey]

Just started to over feed and I have tried -5 flame before but it doesn't seem to have a bunch of effect.

[blueflame]

I don't know what else to suggest. You should call Quad direct and tell them your problem. Also have your dealer get on the phone with Quad. I'll call my dealer and see if I can get any suggestion from them and let you know.

[blueflame]

Who is your dealer?

[plowjockey]

Roc on supplys in Lloydminster,Alberta and they deal with Northern fireplace in Edmonton. I am just waiting for this new board hoping it will solve these issues. I love the look of the stove and if it would do what they told me I would be very happy. Oh one more thing when i had it working with whaet at the start I noticed the clink would get stuck in the pot then overfeed and not start. Is this normal? They told me it would self clean and I know it is cleaning well with the pellets now even if it is set for corn.

[blueflame]

No thats not the way it is suppose to work. My dealer has been trying different fuels through the insert they have on display and have not had any issues. He is the only other one I know of that has tried wheat. I was there Friday and they said they had not cleaned the unit is 3 weeks. The ash in the pot area was up above the firepot. The ash pan was full. But if you have issues running it on wheat Quad needs to know. They have found that they needed to change their boards after the stove came out due to the variations in the types of corn. They may have the same issues with wheat.

[blueflame]

Are you burning on manual or automatic?

[plowjockey]

tried both but really over feed on Auto but manual seemed to work some. wish I could burn it again but unable to even use man now...just overfeeds and won't speed the exhaust fan up.

[blueflame]

So at this point does it work at all?

[plowjockey]

Yes it is runing using prem wood pellets but set for corn....seems to be working good.. This is the only setting that will work of any fuels or settings

[jtp10181]

I just repaired a SantaFe-B that was over feeding and swapping the clear control module fixed the problem. Is that the part you replaced? The AE might not even have that I guess, I have not had to repair one of those yet.

[plowjockey]

New Board in and quad is running hot!!!! Hoooorayy! It has only been a few hours but looks good so far! Started on wood pellets for a day.....alll went well then switched to wheat tonight and so far seems to be more pot air and hot! had flame at -4 for pellets nut think I will increase for wheat..... My dealer never came out I just replaced myself. this is the 3rd board and I hope the last......Any more updates I hope is just usb and to add barley oats and rye to fuel options. Can't wait...Sure hope this works.....!

[plowjockey]

Well the stove is burning the Wheat good but failing to drop the clinker and clean. then of course dumps more wheat on top wasting good wheat and eventually jamming the auger. Any Ideas out there? The pot opens properly but it doesn't clean as the clinker sticks to the side of the pot.

[jtp10181]

scrape the clinkers out....

Go to page 25 of your manual. Section 10.B





3. Cleaning Firepot with Firepot Scraper
• Frequency: As needed

• By: Homeowner

• Task:

a. The appliance must be in complete shutdown and cool
and the exhaust blower off.
b. It may be necessary to use your fi repot scraper to
chip away material that has built up on the sides of the

fi repot and to push out any clinkers. Larger clinkers
may have to be removed from the top of the fi repot.
Corn clinkers can be especially diffi cult to break up.
c. After scraping the fi repot and inspecting the holes, turn
off the power and then restore the power. The auto
clean system will then clean itself.
d. The firepot floor plate must be fully closed when

fi nished.

[apm]

i am getting more depressed every response i read.no one seems how to repair or trouble shoot these stoves.how do the dealers get away with this?

[plowjockey]

Hey JTP I know how to clean the pot as the manual says but it doesn't say I would have to clean it manualy every time it cleans. This of course means that I bought a stove that will not operate over night and that is not what was sold to me. New board is in and it is working .....But the issue now is clinker ALWAYS getting stuck in firepot.......stove seems to need a full time baby sitter..Maybe I should use Pam on it??? not sure if a hotter shorter burn with quicker clean is better or longer burn but that would give me more of a clinker I think???? :eek:

[jtp10181]

plowjockey: dirtier fuels give more clinkers. Try burning straight pellets and you should notice you have to clean it manually a lot less. You could try calling technical support and ask if what you are experiencing is normal.

apm: Pellet stoves are new to a lot of people. Many dealers including the one I work for did not really start selling them until the huge commotion last year. Right now I am the only person there who really knows how to work on them. Each call I get I am going with the service person and basically training them on site on how they operate and how to troubleshoot. You send a guy out that's worked on direct vent gas fireplaces for 5 years and all those wires and stuff going all over the place in a pellet is a little scary. As we have said before on this forum, buying the latest and greatest technology is not different in fireplaces than in any other industry.

I have a 2004 Chevy Malibu, with the new body style (they changed halfway though the year). The power steering light kept coming on during a drive back home from a vacation and each time it would the power steering was gone. We stopped at the next town and found a dealer. They popped the hood open and were totally baffled.... where is the power steering pump / fluid. We sat there for like 20 minutes while they figured out what the heck was going on. They came back and said our car has a new technology, electronic power steering with wires and pulleys, no pump or fluid. They had never worked on it before and had no clue what to do. Whoever they called said it would be fine to drive it home like that and we could take it to a dealer at home. Turned out there was actually a recall on some sensor in the power steering system so we got that done and it fixed the problem.

Also if you heard about this... think back to XBOX 360. Didn't they have all sorts of problems with it over heating?

My point is, every time something new comes out it takes at least one revision to work all the bugs out. Unfortunately the consumers end up being a giant test lab. They test the things as extensively as they can but nothing compares to real world testing.

[plowjockey]

well so much for working well..Stuck clinkers is one thing...But The Beast has gone back to its old tricks and is over feeding the wheat and jacking up in feed tube. wondering if it has something to do with having to unplug power and plug in again to get the Firepot to clean. This should be an option on the control pannel rather than unplugging. When you unplug the settings and code should default and reset but I noticed mine did at the start but not any more...stays on wheat...should default to corn..... I think there is junk code left in mem or not resetting right. Am I missing something? Any more ideas?

[jtp10181]

Are you letting it shut down before unplugging? Or just yanking it out while burning. Could try unplugging it for 10 or 15 minutes to let the memory clear and hopefully reset it all back to defaults. Why don't you have the dealer come work on it?

[plowjockey]

done burning usually in error code state. Last few times 20-30 min before plug in but doesn't change. phoned Phil today from quad and he says that my dealer is going to update my control software with the usb cord and all the fuel tables will be updated. It is quite warm here for the rest of the week...good thing....

[jertfunk1]

I am having problems with my mt vernon ae stove as well. I should have known something was up when the first one I picked up from the dealer looked like it got dropped upside down when I opened it up. The casting was broken, the hinges to the hopper door were broken and the pins for one of the doors were missing. Then I waited almost a month for another stove to show up. I got it home and installed it and everything seemed except for this loud hum upon cold start up, it sounds like someone blowing across the top of a soda bottle but 10 times louder that actually shook the wall behind the stove. I e-mailed quad and they said to lower the flame height but I already had it on -5. I was using premium pellets and had it on that setting. I have it installed in my basement. Then 2 weeks later I came down because the house felt very cold and looked at the thermostat and it said the convection blower was jammed. I thought that seemed weird so I unplugged it for about 15 minutes and plugged it back in and it cleaned and restarted so I thought it must have been a glitch or something. Oh yeah this is also the same day I went to buy 1 ton of corn. It worked for about 24 hours then the same message came up again. So at this point I was pretty upset because I had a ton of corn sitting there with a broken stove. So I took the side panel off to check the fan, I reached in and spun the fan with no resistance so i figured it must be a loose wire or faulty connection. So I unplugged it again and restarted it and it fired up. I waited until the fan started blowing and started wiggling the feed wires and feedback wires from the circuit board to the fan and nothing happened. Then I shook the fan a little which is easy to do because it doesn't feel like it is mounted to much and the fan kicked on and off. If I slowly move it it doesn't happen just when I give it a jolt. So I moved it around a little and let it run. It will now run sometimes for days without the error popping up but eventually it always does. It also stops while it is blowing for a moment and makes a weird sputtering noise but only on low speed, it has never sputtered on high speed. So I called the dealer and they are supposed to have ordered me a new convection fan, we'll see how long this will take. So Saturday(week 3 of having the unit) I started burning my corn. I can't seem to get this thing to feed right. Tonight I tried it on corn setting manual medium high -3 flame height and all hell broke loose. The fire was smoothered out by too much corn being dumped in, first it was burning it somewhat but the firepot got so full the corn started backing up into the chute. Then it finally made a clinker so big it smoothered the fire out. So the code low firepot temp came up and I hit retry and put it on manual low and it restarted. Then I came to the computer and found this message board and was reading. Then I started smelling something and looked up and the whole family room was filled with smoke! Apparently the stove didn't clean before it restarted or the firepot was too full and jammed and it kept pouring corn in and just burnt it and never ignited it so it made one huge stinky smoke bomb. So I had to open the door and dig out the firepot and clean it myself. I now have it running again on auto mode -5 flame height and it seems to be doing ok for now but I am afraid to leave it burn overnight without a babysitter. It's not that it is dirty either I cleaned it once a week and just cleaned it on Sunday inside and out. Hold ON!! I'm back the blower was sputtering again and I had to go shake it and it started working again.

I don't know I spent three grand on this thing to lower my heating costs but it now looks like I just added three grand to my heating costs cause I will probably be turning the furnace back on. Oh yeah plus the $170 dollars of corn I have stored here.

sorry for the long post but I have a lot of anger to vent. You would think something this expensive would have better quality control.:mad: I saw this link was forwarded to quad so I thought I would add my problems and hope they see it too.

[Scottnjtjk]

Deleted - Posted 2x

[Scottnjtjk]

My wife and I have been looking at the Harman XXV and the Quadra-Fire Mt . Vernon since we reached a new high on our propane bill (600.00 for 30 days - ouch!). I liked the purported reliability of the Harman and she likes (actually we both like) the looks of the Mt. Vernon with enamel finish.

I was going to hold off buying anything until next season, especially given the shortge of pellets on west coast, when I went on the QuadraFire website and found the great financing deal currently offered. With that in mind, we packed up the kids and went to the dealer 40 miles away.

Dealer said, don't buy the Mt. Vernon AE - Too many problems right now. For me, it seemed to burn OK at dealer but fan hummed rather loudly. Started researching and found this thread. Whew!!! Guess he was right on problems with new Mt. Vernon.

So, here are my questions.

Does anyone have any idea how long these problems will take to address?

For the pro's out there, is anyone having luck with the Mt. Vernon AE line?

Also, which is the ultimate question, can I reasonably expect a dramatic savings in heating costs with a pellet stove?

Thanks for the help. :)

[techmadness]

I've a friend with this stove who also can not get more than 5 hrs of runtime on the unit.

Here's my question - Does anyone have this stove operating? If so, please post the fuel type and the settings you are using to get this stove operational.

I am from New England and yes, I happen to be at his home yesterday when the tech arrived, and the tech was (is) completely over his head on this - I don't blame the tech though this stove is a technology marvel/nightmare.

[plowjockey]

Despite all the trouble burning wheat I have never had a min trouble burning wood pellets. It not only works well The Mt vernon quadra fire stove rocks burning wood pellets. When the kinks get ironed out on the other fuels this stove will be King. right now I am using pellets with a small amout of wheat in the mix. flame set at -4. runing on auto this stove will run for days just bring it some fuel and dump ash about every 3 days or so.

[Scottnjtjk]

Plowjockey:

Do you experience the humming (others have described it as the sound made when blowing into a bottle) of the fan at higher settings?

[plowjockey]

The odd time just when it is starting but not after it is runing. My dealer who sells 99% Harman stoves said this stove was the quietest he ever heard. I would suggest going and looking at one fo you can compare.

[techmadness]

Well, after nearly two weeks with the tech coming out to change parts we finally figured out how to get our Quadra-Fire Mt . Vernon to run on wood pellets.

What we found - We changed the pellet setting from Premium to Utility (even though we've tried multiple brands of premium pellets.)

The stove has now been operational for 5 days uninterrupted (verses 5 hrs prior to our findings)

[blueflame]

[QUOTE=techmadness;1355023]I've a friend with this stove who also can not get more than 5 hrs of runtime on the unit.

Here's my question - Does anyone have this stove operating? If so, please post the fuel type and the settings you are using to get this stove operational.

When burning pellets use the utility setting and the flame height -5.

[blueflame]

Plowjockey:

Do you experience the humming (others have described it as the sound made when blowing into a bottle) of the fan at higher settings?

They have new fuel tables that can be downloaded into he stove that will cure the rumbling noise. Or they have a new control board that has the new fuel tables already installed.

[Chillgirl]

there must be a plate somewhere that has heat expansion

[jcmyers]

I have had my Quadra-fire fireplace insert (60,000btu's) for 4 months now and havn't had any problems at all with it. I installed it myself. It took 4 BIG guys to lift onto my mantle, but now it is absolutely gorgeous in my formal fireplace wall. It has the mahogany porcelan finish. I heat the top two levels of my 3500 sq ft quad-level home.
(The lower two levels are an unused In-laws qtrs and a basement). My Dec. corn bill was $95 and last years gas bill for Dec. was $230. I use it on the corn setting at a -5 level to tone the flame size down. The auto ingite and the self-cleaning firepot work flawlessly. I've never had a corn-burner before, but I can't imagine being without those features. The window lifts off and it cleans completely and effortlessly with "windex wipes" I found in my wife's cleaning stuff. Being lazy, I installed a sort of dedicated 3" vacuum port and remote power switch hidden in a nearby mantle bookcase that terminates outside the house at a shopvac. Makes cleaning the unit very quiet and dust-free. The wife loves that. The local grain elevator says the price of corn is kind of high now. Can't wait until I can save even more.

[jtp10181]

A lot of times you can get pellets cheaper than corn, might want to look into that. You can also burn a corn / pellet mix.

Glad to hear someone is having good luck with this thing. We have only sold one so far and the guy was installing it himself. Have not heard anything from him so it must be working! Or he doesn't have it installed yet.

I am excited to get our showroom model vented so I can play with it.

[Kelly Phillips]

Ok now for all you Mt Veronon Owners who got sucked in by the hype here is what in my opinion you should do.

First get Angry.
Hearth and Home in Colville Wa built a substandard product that should have never left the drawing board. they have systematically sacked everyone except their top heavy management staff and basically put them o the line to try and fix this aproxiamately 3.2 million dollar fiascal. the total termination of employees was somewhere between 100 to 500 employees. most of them that had been their for anywhere up to 13 or better years.

Second Box that piece of **** back up and have them pic it up. Fire is something to never mess with especially in a home while sleeping my position on this subject is simpe, if an item like this isn't right the first time then there is no second chances. Get it out of my house as quickly a possible.

In my opinion this product isn't ready for market. it like an operating system for a computer that can be upgraded when it fails to work properly. this is something that very well could take a life with no time for fixes or do overs.

I've worked for the company and love alot of their long standing products but in my own opinion I reinterate that this product needs more engineering and better QC. The fact that Hearth and Home Tech in Colville Washington where these stoves are made generted a 3m dollar loss on this and sacked alot of people t receprocate the losses shoud be enough to merit concern.

Well that is all I have to say about that.

My Job Back Ground is Construction, Electrical, and Manufacturing and what I know about these hings and the troubles plaguing this Mt Vernon line worries me.

Deja Vue all over again!

Since installation of the stove on 11/11/06, the stove has only worked 8 out of the 18 days and is now once again not working.

It stopped working on Sunday (11/26/06) with the "Conv Blower Jammed" error on the display.

Contacted the dealer, early Monday morning with information as to error. Dealer contacted Quadra-Fire as soon as they could get through to them on the phone, then called me back saying the parts (blower and wiring harness) will be shipped "Next Day" to them for installation.

Well now it is Tuesday. At noon, I checked with dealer to see if they did indeed receive the parts. No, they did not receive any of the parts. At the latest, these parts should have been received and installed the next day!!!

I called Quadra-Fire to get information as to when I could expect the parts to arrive. They refused to give me any information, saying I will need to contact the dealer. Expressed my disappointment with their (Quadra-Fire) service. They gave me a case number and said they will check it out. I presume this may be something like the question I had previously posted on Quadra-Fire's web site and didn't get an answer back till 7 days later. This is not at all expectable. Very poooooor service to consumers or to me anyway.

I am getting very concerned for when and if I have any problems with the stove a year from now. Will they be giving me this same support? This was a new stove and has been in service for only 18 days, but has only worked 8 out of these 18 days and is not working at this time.

Could it be that I got a lemon?

Well, this is the final straw. I am not going to fix this baby this time. If the stove is not working when I get home from work tomorrow evening, it will be removed and set outside.

This is a great looking stove and when it is working, it does produce heat and dumps the ashes. But, at this time, I really would not recommend this stove to anyone.

[Kelly Phillips]

Ok now for all you Mt Veronon Owners who got sucked in by the hype here is what in my opinion you should do.

First get Angry.
Hearth and Home in Colville Wa built a substandard product that should have never left the drawing board. they have systematically sacked everyone except their top heavy management staff and basically put them o the line to try and fix this aproxiamately 3.2 million dollar fiascal. the total termination of employees was somewhere between 100 to 500 employees. most of them that had been their for anywhere up to 13 or better years.

Second Box that piece of **** back up and have them pic it up. Fire is something to never mess with especially in a home while sleeping my position on this subject is simpe, if an item like this isn't right the first time then there is no second chances. Get it out of my house as quickly a possible.

In my opinion this product isn't ready for market. it like an operating system for a computer that can be upgraded when it fails to work properly. this is something that very well could take a life with no time for fixes or do overs.

I've worked for the company and love alot of their long standing products but in my own opinion I reinterate that this product needs more engineering and better QC. The fact that Hearth and Home Tech in Colville Washington where these stoves are made generted a 3m dollar loss on this and sacked alot of people t receprocate the losses shoud be enough to merit concern.

Well that is all I have to say about that.

My Job Back Ground is Construction, Electrical, and Manufacturing and what I know about these hings and the troubles plaguing this Mt Vernon line worries me.

Deja Vue all over again!

Since installation of the stove on 11/11/06, the stove has only worked 8 out of the 18 days and is now once again not working.

It stopped working on Sunday (11/26/06) with the "Conv Blower Jammed" error on the display.

Contacted the dealer, early Monday morning with information as to error. Dealer contacted Quadra-Fire as soon as they could get through to them on the phone, then called me back saying the parts (blower and wiring harness) will be shipped "Next Day" to them for installation.

Well now it is Tuesday. At noon, I checked with dealer to see if they did indeed receive the parts. No, they did not receive any of the parts. At the latest, these parts should have been received and installed the next day!!!

I called Quadra-Fire to get information as to when I could expect the parts to arrive. They refused to give me any information, saying I will need to contact the dealer. Expressed my disappointment with their (Quadra-Fire) service. They gave me a case number and said they will check it out. I presume this may be something like the question I had previously posted on Quadra-Fire's web site and didn't get an answer back till 7 days later. This is not at all expectable. Very poooooor service to consumers or to me anyway.

I am getting very concerned for when and if I have any problems with the stove a year from now. Will they be giving me this same support? This was a new stove and has been in service for only 18 days, but has only worked 8 out of these 18 days and is not working at this time.

Could it be that I got a lemon?

Well, this is the final straw. I am not going to fix this baby this time. If the stove is not working when I get home from work tomorrow evening, it will be removed and set outside.

This is a great looking stove and when it is working, it does produce heat and dumps the ashes. But, at this time, I really would not recommend this stove to anyone.

[Chillgirl]

Our Mt Vernon had so many problems right from the start..it didn't start..the circuit board was replaced..the blower motor was replaced...and when it finally started to run, we noticed about two days into operation, BANG...we figured it was heat expansion but he tech was certain it was the auger...he replaced the auger, and within a minute of start up, BANG again...we've requested our money back, because the tech said it would require a major overhaul of the stove to fix...we haven't received our money back yet, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the company will come good for it...this stove had been talked up so much that we were sure this would be the best and last stove we would ever need to buy...when it wouldn't even start, our dealer informed us that this is the first production year and that all of the "kinks" are still not out of it...it's a hell of a "kink" when it won't even start!...but now, our problem is noise, like at 11 second intervals..we feel so disallusioned by this stove..for the time lost from work while the tech was here to try to fix this stove, and for the over three grand it cost to buy this stove, i would not recommend this pellet stove ...

[Kelly Phillips]

Here is the location of the Manufacture of this Stove line.
Hearth & Home Technologies
1445 N Highway
Colville, WA 99114-2008
(509) 684-3745

Hon Industries is their Primary Company. Now Hearth and Homes Contracts comes up for renewal with this company I believe around Sept. 2007 trust me with this ammo you should see some quick results. Here is Hon's Link

http://www.honi.com/companies/hearth_home.htm

Like I said in my previous post I believe their other long standing products are a solid and well designed line. maybe you should consider an alternative. That goes for anyone in this predeqiument.

Kelly Phillips

[hearthman]

This stove is made by Quadrafire out of Colville, Washington. Quad is part of Hearth & Home Technologies along with Heatilator, Heat & Glo, Fireside Furnishings, and Fireside Hearth & Home (installation/ retail outlets), which comprise the largest fireplace company in the world. You can find these brands at www.fireplaces.com HHT's headquarters is in Lakeville, Mn. HHT is part of HNI Corp., which used to be known as HON Industries. HON makes office furniture and is based in Muscatine, Iowa. There is no renewal--Quad and HHT are owned by HNI. The President of HHT is Brad Determan while the CEO of HNI is Stan Askren.

Quad makes a lot of good products as does the rest of HHT. Their Castile insert is a good stove. However, as I stated in an earlier post, in their lust to fulfil their position as market leaders, they bit off more than they could chew with this new stove. It is a quantum leap. They did not merely improve one or two components. It is an entirely new concept. They faced many challenges in design, supply, reliability, etc. About this time last yr., it looked as though they had the major bugs worked out so they projected a June launch. However, that dragged into the Fall. Ready or not, they had to ship units to meet committments to dealers. Unfortunately, it still wasn't ready. They are quietly pulling stoves from dealers, installing retro kits then shipping the same stoves back to the dealers. If they had committed proper resources to the project much earlier, this could have been avoided but engineering was pressed to roll it out ready or not. Obviously, they lost the gamble.

HHT's Senior Leadership has an obsession with pushing new unproven products out to meet unrealistic timelines and carrying too many models that are not properly engineered or reliability tested. They pinch pennies on quality and reliability or as they call it "Lean Manufacturing".

As for dealing with this situation, they have gutted their technical pool so there's virtually no one left to service such problems. They are running on a skeleton crew while almost all the old knowledgeable experienced ones are gone. Now that the economy is showing signs of life, they have to start rebuilding their technical base. However, in a specialty industry, such as the hearth industry, experience and knowledge does not grow on trees. The myopia of their leadership to artificially boost stock prices for the short term by cutting irrreplaceable staff will get them in the end. They could not see that companies need to invest in people and not just physical assets. They paid too high a price just to make the Board happy. Now the question is, will the HNI Board clean out the mis-managers at the Top and salvage their market dominance or stay on a path of destruction. The entire hearth industry is watching this one closely.

[Kelly Phillips]

Hearth man sounds like he knows something, but it sounds like alot of diversion and hooey than an explaination on how to resolve this Mt Vernon problem. a bit of advise Hearth Man is this, Brevity when quoting corp. propaganda.

Second Hearth Man Unless you live in Colville WA. then you really don't know squat about the goings on at the factory/plant. Please refrain from blanketing the facts with hypethetical assumptions. you know what they say about assumptions, their the mother of all F@*K UPs.

the information for resolution on my previous entry is a good guideline however the one I forgot to include. Grab the dealer you bought it from by the ear and give it a good twist, then tell them to remove the stove and replace it with a better line of stove. sorry for that mistake.

Third to show that Hearthman Loves Corp. Prop is this quote of his "If they had committed proper resources to the project much earlier, this could have been avoided but engineering was pressed to roll it out ready or not. Obviously, they lost the gamble." You see the plant doesn't operate as You imply Hearth man but more strickley they believed the stove perfect and ready for manufacturing. and the production line wasn't completed till Sept and on time. so where ever you got the information from on the summer start was again Propaganda. What the problem was after the line went up was this.

One - the Inspection agent who orders and test each part failed in his task and apparently all the lots wasn't being tested for functionality. also it appears some of the electrical parts was not the coded parts needed for this application. He was Sacked when the the bottom fell out on this endeavor.
Second - and this one I love the most because it was uncharacterist of the company but it happened. The hoppers had chipped areas and cracks on them so the solution was to duck tape and paint the areas to cover up the repairs instead of reorder the parts and build the units correctly. LOL HAHAHA this I found out a week ago from a worker on that line.
Third - the ash tray that dumps sometimes will dump the whole tray out of it's carraige. Forth - the porceline ones I wouldn't be surprised if in time the porceline doesnt start to flake or chip away from the cast. apparently they can't get the batchs right for the porcelian/cast compatibility.

Now these are only the in factory issues I know of on the Mt Vernon Line.

So Hearth man unless you have worked in the plant as I have, then your explainations are nothing more than Corp. Propaganda and Hot Air.


Bottom line is, the whole process of this Mt Vernon Line is plagued with alot of issues and too many Yes Men and not enough No Man. Unfortunately they sacked a hugh portion of their labor force and kept the Idiot Yes Men.

I like the fact your in PA. We have enough Hot air blowers in our state. Just look who we have for a govenor.

Sincerely
Kelly
:cool:





This stove is made by Quadrafire out of Colville, Washington. Quad is part of Hearth & Home Technologies along with Heatilator, Heat & Glo, Fireside Furnishings, and Fireside Hearth & Home (installation/ retail outlets), which comprise the largest fireplace company in the world. You can find these brands at www.fireplaces.com HHT's headquarters is in Lakeville, Mn. HHT is part of HNI Corp., which used to be known as HON Industries. HON makes office furniture and is based in Muscatine, Iowa. There is no renewal--Quad and HHT are owned by HNI. The President of HHT is Brad Determan while the CEO of HNI is Stan Askren.

Quad makes a lot of good products as does the rest of HHT. Their Castile insert is a good stove. However, as I stated in an earlier post, in their lust to fulfil their position as market leaders, they bit off more than they could chew with this new stove. It is a quantum leap. They did not merely improve one or two components. It is an entirely new concept. They faced many challenges in design, supply, reliability, etc. About this time last yr., it looked as though they had the major bugs worked out so they projected a June launch. However, that dragged into the Fall. Ready or not, they had to ship units to meet committments to dealers. Unfortunately, it still wasn't ready. They are quietly pulling stoves from dealers, installing retro kits then shipping the same stoves back to the dealers. If they had committed proper resources to the project much earlier, this could have been avoided but engineering was pressed to roll it out ready or not. Obviously, they lost the gamble.

HHT's Senior Leadership has an obsession with pushing new unproven products out to meet unrealistic timelines and carrying too many models that are not properly engineered or reliability tested. They pinch pennies on quality and reliability or as they call it "Lean Manufacturing".

As for dealing with this situation, they have gutted their technical pool so there's virtually no one left to service such problems. They are running on a skeleton crew while almost all the old knowledgeable experienced ones are gone. Now that the economy is showing signs of life, they have to start rebuilding their technical base. However, in a specialty industry, such as the hearth industry, experience and knowledge does not grow on trees. The myopia of their leadership to artificially boost stock prices for the short term by cutting irrreplaceable staff will get them in the end. They could not see that companies need to invest in people and not just physical assets. They paid too high a price just to make the Board happy. Now the question is, will the HNI Board clean out the mis-managers at the Top and salvage their market dominance or stay on a path of destruction. The entire hearth industry is watching this one closely.

[hearthman]

As a former disgruntled line worker, Im sure you are unhappy with Quad. However, as a line worker, you don't know everything about this stove, the mfr. or the parent company. I'm not sure of your meaning when you refer to my "Corp. Propaganda" Kelly as I do not work for them nor am I making excuses for them. I don't appreciate your personal attacks on me either, especially since we seem to agree on a number of issues.

The company has a fix kit for this stove--give it a try. The local dealers sold what they were given and are doing what they can to deal with it--cut them some slack. This stove will be a beast of a performer once the bugs are worked out. Just like concept cars or any other cutting edge product, there is bound to be a learning curve. I think those of you who bought the Mt. Vernon knew there was a risk and accepted it. Just be patient.

Kelly, the initial target was for a summer launch so stoves would be in the dealers hands in time for the Fall burn season. Nobody from the hearth industry in their right mind would deliberately start production in Sept. Apparetly, you were not privy to all the communications regarding the progress with the launch of this product.

My beef was with upper leadership because I know first hand many of their policies and failures. If there was a change in administration, this company will continue to lead the industry. Right now, it's on a course for tough times and a lot of that can be attributed to the misguided policies of upper mgt.

[Kelly Phillips]

Ok Hearth Man in your wisdom I see your point. However This Item is not a Midget Car of experment to be played with in someones house it is a fire device. as for starting dates on a line we are all privy to info. that is how the company works, and I'm not disgruntled only disappointedm, big differance.

Bottom line people is this.

One - if something cost 150.00 or better it had better work or it goes back. Especially 3000.00 dollar item not probably counting installation labor.

two - Unlike a Computer or a concept cars or any other cutting edge product this is something that has a flame and electrical wiring in it. I believe in darwins theory of elimination. However i'm not going to be an example for it. I still suggest getting the thing out of ones house and get something differant till this item has been properly fixed and on the market for sometime. by then the price might have dropped also.

I'm sorry Hearth Man I would never ask anyone to give something a chance if it could possibly mean my families safety.

Colville Wa Pop. around 5,029 local economy is mainly this factory and a boat manufacture. we all drink, sociallize and are friends around here. so believe me we know pretty much all going ons.











As a former disgruntled line worker, Im sure you are unhappy with Quad. However, as a line worker, you don't know everything about this stove, the mfr. or the parent company. I'm not sure of your meaning when you refer to my "Corp. Propaganda" Kelly as I do not work for them nor am I making excuses for them. I don't appreciate your personal attacks on me either, especially since we seem to agree on a number of issues.

The company has a fix kit for this stove--give it a try. The local dealers sold what they were given and are doing what they can to deal with it--cut them some slack. This stove will be a beast of a performer once the bugs are worked out. Just like concept cars or any other cutting edge product, there is bound to be a learning curve. I think those of you who bought the Mt. Vernon knew there was a risk and accepted it. Just be patient.

Kelly, the initial target was for a summer launch so stoves would be in the dealers hands in time for the Fall burn season. Nobody from the hearth industry in their right mind would deliberately start production in Sept. Apparetly, you were not privy to all the communications regarding the progress with the launch of this product.

My beef was with upper leadership because I know first hand many of their policies and failures. If there was a change in administration, this company will continue to lead the industry. Right now, it's on a course for tough times and a lot of that can be attributed to the misguided policies of upper mgt.

[jtp10181]

LOL @ Kelly Phillips

Oh and BTW cars have fire and electrical wiring in them also.

[Scottnjtjk]

What is contained in the fix kit? My wife and I just bought the stove and it works pretty well except the fan seems too loud (can't seem to change the blower speed in manual heat output mode set at low) and the thermostat is off by 3-5 degrees. Other than that it fired up easy enough and puts out a lot of heat.


The company has a fix kit for this stove--give it a try.

[Kelly Phillips]

Fan Noise is probably caused by harmonics. and the only way to dampen that is thru incasement and a stabilizer. If you can live with the noise then enjoy the heat. it is one of the best heat outputer on the market.




What is contained in the fix kit? My wife and I just bought the stove and it works pretty well except the fan seems too loud (can't seem to change the blower speed in manual heat output mode set at low) and the thermostat is off by 3-5 degrees. Other than that it fired up easy enough and puts out a lot of heat.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<I like the fact your in PA. We have enough Hot air blowers in our state.>>


Hey!


Seattle Pioneer





I finally have something good to say about ordering parts for a Healtilator fireplace. After ordering the needed parts three months ago, I am finally told they have arrived. Having been told that once three weeks ago only to be disappointed, but I'm getting optimistic.


My customer has had no use of their fireplace for three months because Heatilator couldn't get the needed parts to the dealer ---and the missing part is a millivolt gas valve they ought to be able to get easily enough.


Sloppy invetory work that hurts customers and damages their reputation.



Seattle Pioneer





Hearth man sounds like he knows something, but it sounds like alot of diversion and hooey than an explaination on how to resolve this Mt Vernon problem. a bit of advise Hearth Man is this, Brevity when quoting corp. propaganda.

Second Hearth Man Unless you live in Colville WA. then you really don't know squat about the goings on at the factory/plant. Please refrain from blanketing the facts with hypethetical assumptions. you know what they say about assumptions, their the mother of all F@*K UPs.

the information for resolution on my previous entry is a good guideline however the one I forgot to include. Grab the dealer you bought it from by the ear and give it a good twist, then tell them to remove the stove and replace it with a better line of stove. sorry for that mistake.

Third to show that Hearthman Loves Corp. Prop is this quote of his "If they had committed proper resources to the project much earlier, this could have been avoided but engineering was pressed to roll it out ready or not. Obviously, they lost the gamble." You see the plant doesn't operate as You imply Hearth man but more strickley they believed the stove perfect and ready for manufacturing. and the production line wasn't completed till Sept and on time. so where ever you got the information from on the summer start was again Propaganda. What the problem was after the line went up was this.

One - the Inspection agent who orders and test each part failed in his task and apparently all the lots wasn't being tested for functionality. also it appears some of the electrical parts was not the coded parts needed for this application. He was Sacked when the the bottom fell out on this endeavor.
Second - and this one I love the most because it was uncharacterist of the company but it happened. The hoppers had chipped areas and cracks on them so the solution was to duck tape and paint the areas to cover up the repairs instead of reorder the parts and build the units correctly. LOL HAHAHA this I found out a week ago from a worker on that line.
Third - the ash tray that dumps sometimes will dump the whole tray out of it's carraige. Forth - the porceline ones I wouldn't be surprised if in time the porceline doesnt start to flake or chip away from the cast. apparently they can't get the batchs right for the porcelian/cast compatibility.

Now these are only the in factory issues I know of on the Mt Vernon Line.

So Hearth man unless you have worked in the plant as I have, then your explainations are nothing more than Corp. Propaganda and Hot Air.


Bottom line is, the whole process of this Mt Vernon Line is plagued with alot of issues and too many Yes Men and not enough No Man. Unfortunately they sacked a hugh portion of their labor force and kept the Idiot Yes Men.

I like the fact your in PA. We have enough Hot air blowers in our state. Just look who we have for a govenor.

Sincerely
Kelly
:cool:

[junk_mtvernon]

Sorry to be the guy that jumps in and states "me too" but as my user name states......My Mt. Vernon pellet stove is GARBAGE and I can only warn future buyers DO NOT PURCHASE THIS STOVE. Unless you want a stove that works 25 percent of the time, leaks fumes into your home, makes a LOT of noise and is backed by a company that does not give a rats a$$. Ill also state for the record that I purchased the stove from Preston Trading Post in CT and have been treated horridly by them every time I have called with an issue. I would buy NOTHING from them. The lines they give me "we will have the new part in next week...next week...well call you" Thats BS. Any one thinking about this product RUN RUN RUN.....and if you want to call me (a real owner) and talk PLEASE DO 860-334-6458. Happy to tell you more about it.

It looks great, specs out well but get it in your home after spending $$$$$$ and get ready to grab your ankles.

I think I am most upset about the fact that Preston knew about the issues BEFORE they sat there and sold me the thing.

Gary

[junk_mtvernon]

What is contained in the fix kit? My wife and I just bought the stove and it works pretty well except the fan seems too loud (can't seem to change the blower speed in manual heat output mode set at low) and the thermostat is off by 3-5 degrees. Other than that it fired up easy enough and puts out a lot of heat.

Wait for the problems....they are soon on the way.

[BuenieBob]

Here is my personal story of the new Quad Mt. Vernon AE stoves. I'd like to preface this by saying before this the Quad products had proved to be great and the tech service fast and professional. I am a dealer in Colorado and I was selling all the old Mt. Vernons and I ran out of Mahogany. I had two customers who wanted Mt. Vernons in Mahogany so I ordered three, thinking I would put one in the showroom. They kept delaying the order but finally after a month they came, late in the day when I couldn't see all the chips in the glaze. The customers where getting anxious but they agreed to wait.
The problems started immediately. You see, we burn all our pellet stoves at our shop, just to make sure we have a product that works perfectly when we install it. For three days we tried everything we could to make these stoves work. I spent most of three days on the phone with tech support (or on hold) trying to solve problems. Some of the guys at tech were pretty much clueless and most had limited knowledge of the AE. I've been in HVAC for 30 years, and I figured hey, I've got three stoves, I can switch parts and make one work, right? Wrong!!! They were a mess, they had myriad problems and the more we looked at them the more chips in the finish we found. We switched parts again and again but we couldn't get one good stove out of the three of them.
At first I thought I had a streak of really bad luck, but actually it turned out for the best. My two customers agreed to take Black Mt. Vernons ( the old reliable models that I only had a few of) and they are really happy with them. If I had installed any of these AEs in customer's houses that would be the ultimate nightmare because I stand behind what I sell and I would have made it right no matter what the cost. I told Quadrafire I have three lemons here that they can pickup when they get around to it. I told them I would certainly not be paying for them. So here it is, more than 2 months later. The Mt. Vernon AEs sit in my warehouse gathering dust. Quadrafire has not contacted me at all about them. I don't know what they are going to do with them, but right now I have three very large mahogany paperweights.

[junk_mtvernon]

BuenieBob, Sorry to hear your problems!!! Hey very nice business mover to test the stoves, I appreciate that!!

My question: You refer to the "black reliable" stoves.....I have a black Mt Vernon, just for clarification for those those could be buyers reading this, I think its more about them being an old model...could you please elaborate????

Thanks

[BuenieBob]

I am referring to the the previous Mt. Vernon stove (not the AE, advanced energy stove, although I guess they could change that to always exasperating or whatever name you chose). The previous Mt. Vernon had a mechanical thermostat, a little manual knob to pick flame height and fan speed, and a manual reset button. It also had a little rod inside with a wing nut on it to adjust flame height. Low tech, low key, very basic. No digital stat controlling every function. This previous generation Mt. Vernon was reliable and easy to troubleshoot if needed. I loved them and so did my customers. I wished I had more to sell but mine are all gone. They discontinued making them, which is a sad thing. It's a doggone cryin' shame, you've got a good product which you could sell tons of, and then they decide to stop makin' em. Progress? I don't think so!

[junk_mtvernon]

Thanks for the explanation I really didn't know the history on the stove. Yeah I would love one of those "basic" models. So many things were great about this stove, when it worked, 20 percent of the time!!!! Simplicity is most times best!!!

Again like I said before, if your thinking of purchasing one of these new AE Mt Vernon stoves DO NOT call me and I can quickly talk you out of it!!!!!!!!

[blueflame]

BuenieBob and Junk Mt Vernon - You are not alone in having problems with theMt Vernon. It would have been much smarter for Quad to wait 6 months before they rolled it out to the market. They will suffer the insults for quite a while for this one, but they now have a product that is working the way they originally wanted. They have their people up to speed, are overnight parts when they are made aware of a issue, are putting training on around the country for dealers, have brought back all inventory sitting in dealers warehouses and updated their stoves, and will do whatever they need to get any stove not running right updated to the most current controls. Don't believe me, try them again. They need to know you still aren't happy. They will respond.

[junk_mtvernon]

I don't know about that one, I have been waiting for the dealer to get parts in for the past 3 almost 4 weeks. According to them its Quadra-Fire keeping them in the dark.

My stove sits about 5 feet away from my computer as I write this.....not working AT ALL for the past week. Great deal for over $3,000

[junk_mtvernon]

And sure companies make mistakes, lets not get into that. THIS IS FIRE we are talking about, were talking smoke and fumes in your home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueflame]

I talk from experience. If Quad knew about the problem they would overnight the part to the dealer. They have done it for me and mannnnnyyyy others. The dealer needs to make you a priorty and call Quad. If he has a problem with that you can call Quad directly and get help for him.

[hearthman]

Look, I'm not happy with the way this unit turned out or the decisions upper mgt. made which resulted in this mess. However, it would appear from what I've seen from local dealers and from what Blueflame says they are stepping up to the plate to resolve it.

If I was stuck with such as problem, I would be in personal contact with Quad. Their system tracks units by serial number. Once you contact them, your case doesn't go away. It stays on their radar and questions keep getting asked why this serial number hasn't been cleared away.

So, instead of sitting around complaining on an internet site and trash talking the mfr. to anyone who will listen I just ask, what have you done to contact them directly? If your car was a mess, would you be satisfied complaining on the internet about your dealer or contacting GM or Ford?

Even if you have contacted them before, do it again. Remind them you are out there. Tell them the lack of service or communication you are getting from your local dealer. It is times like these that can determine who will be sold product in the future and who will be refused. If a dealer fails to respond properly to a situation such as this, the mfr. may elect not to sell to them anymore. Quad makes many reliable products that a lot of people are mad they cannot get from Quad. If your stove shop drops the ball perhaps he has a competitor who would love to take up the local Quad business.

The bottom line is communication. When faced with any recall type situation, the squeaking wheel gets the grease. Write them and email them. Always include your serial number as this gets it into their permanent database. It can also move your status to more urgent.

HTH

[BuenieBob]

Hearthman, You may be living in a dream world of your own imagination. You have a lot of faith in Quad. I really hope you are right. I am a dealer with 3 Mt. Vernon AEs siting in my warehouse that nobody has contacted me on in 2 &1/2 months.They have all been a mess from the beginning. My guess is this
AE problem has overwhelmed them completely and they are fighting just to keep their heads above water on this one. They may even be drowning! It may be worth contacting them directly to see if they will respond, but this is their standard response - Contact your dealer!!! JunkMtVernon, give them a try - but don't hold your breath waiting for help.

[jetstream]

Hearthman is right on with his suggestion to communicate directly with the company. I'd suggest that you do a little research to find out who the president or CEO is of the company, and write directly to him, not with a whine or a rant, just detailing concisely what you expected, what you paid, what happened, and how you've been unable to get the matter resolved to date. If all you want to do is raise hell, then don't waste you're time or theirs. But if you have a legitimate problem and you're willing to work with the company to resolve it, you might be pleasantly surprised at the response.

I have done this a few times myself in the past, including writing a letter to the CEO of the biggest bank in the country when I had an issue I couldn't get resolved at the local level. The response was swift, effective, and impressive, and I'm still a loyal customer of theirs to this day.

From another point of view, as a tech I often had to listen to customers complaining about one thing or another in reference to the large utility I worked for. I'd truthfully tell them that they were wasting their breath complaining to me, but if they'd take their time to write a letter to the company, they'd be a lot further ahead.

Not many actually would ever bother to write a letter, but when the company did receive a written complaint that had some validity, that letter would get photo-copied and posted on bulletin boards and circulated throughout the company, and it would have a real effect, believe me.

Take Hearthman's advice, write to the company, don't waste your time slamming the company on-line, it's not only more effective to write them, it's the decent thing to do IMHO.

[jtp10181]

If you call technical support @ QUAD and tell them to enter a claim they will. You need the serial number and they will key everything into their claim system. It will get assigned to someone in technical dept (whoever is most suited to resolve the problem). That person will then follow up with your dealer or with the local sales rep. If your dealer is not being helpful they might contact another local dealer and ask them to fix it.

I work at a dealer myself and we have gotten a couple emails from our sales rep (who got an email from HNG technical) telling us we need to go fix something, and the claim from their system was attached. One of these was over an hour drive away and after three trips down there we got everything resolved. Ended up ripping the fireplace out and re-installing it to code and better insulated the chase to stop cold air problems. Also set all settings on unit (air shutter, pressure, etc) to the correct place to fix flame appearance and heat output. All this was done at no charge to satisfy an unhappy customer.

Bob: You should be able to do the same thing, with a claim. Since you burned the units I am not sure if quad will take them back, but someone should be able to at least send you repair parts under warranty. I believe the porcelain finish is under warranty for 1 year from mfg defects so if it is bad all over you should send them pics, they should be able to do something about that also. The tech should be able to give you an email addy to send digital pictures.

[sysint]

The biggest problem I see with the pellet stove market is that the local distributors DO NOT HAVE QUALIFIED technicians.

They don't know enough to properly diagnose problems and alert management when a product starts to display BIG problems.

They also don't seem to have any margin for parts stocking and there is no real plan from the manufacturers to have their parts available. Additionally, it seems much of the componetry is special rather than making some more universal parts/ignition controls.. etc....

The other thing I don't see is detailed technical manuals on sequence/wiring.

Personally, I have a Castille that is absolutely trouble free (fan noise is irritating--- it could be quieter) However, I've inquired and there doesn't seem to really be any detailed manuals on the product.

[hearthman]

Amen, brother! :D :D :D

Look around at mfr's training materials. Do you see any advanced pellet courses from any of the mfrs? I haven't. Why is this?

-they have nobody experienced enough to take advanced training
-this is because they run them off. The hearth industry has a terrible turn around rate with techs.
-the shop owners and managers are too cheap to send their guys to training
-advanced training cannot be done in a few hours sitting in a hotel conference room with a Power Point presentation.

I'll give you an example of a healthy trend. One mfr. who presents NFI courses is done with the presentation by lunch and rely soley on Power Point slides. No personal interaction from the "instructor" is allowed. A real engaging educational experience.... Now, compare this with Dave Pomeroy's Signature Training. Dave presents the same course over two days including some evening work! He has hands on props he incorporates into the program. As for Power Point slides, he uses less than 50 while the official presentation has been whittled down to 385 slides for gas! Can you imagine trying to run through 385 slides in one day? Now invision doing it before lunch! :eek:

Here is an example of what is NOT included in the pellet course from one of the mfrs.:
-cut aways of each model with a presentation on the airflows in & out.
- one each of that brand's stoves so you can gather around to see how to open it, how to remove the various panels once it is installed, what fasteners were used, what is would take to replace each part, and where those parts are.
-wiring schematics. What is 110vac and what is not, if any. How do you test each component? What is a normal expected and acceptable range of impedance for every electrical component and circuit so you can Ohm then out?
-list of parts common across the various models and which models have a part different from the others. Why was this different part necessary? Include MSRPs.
-what is an acceptable vacuum in the stove. At what vacuum should the switch close?
-pics of varous flames showing normal then the effects of high and low feed rates, plugged venting, plugged holes in burn pots, blocked air intake, negative pressure indoors, etc.
-set of step by step instructions on replacing every single part.
-what is an acceptable range for vent discharge in temps, CFM, and combustion analysis?
-what are the cause and effects seen with a combustion analyzer when you have venting issues, negative pressure, blocked air holes, etc. ?


There's more but you see where I'm going with this. They all leave us hanging to figure it out on our own. Then, when you get an old warhorse of a tech who figures out some of this stuff, he doesn't want to share his knowledge because he feels it is job security. Not a pretty picture. We need to do a much better job of recording this valuable info and sharing it with othes.

[CircleCR]

Wow - wish I had found these messages 3 weeks ago - bought a Mt Vernon AE from dealer (Stone Image in Colorado) - installed it - wouldn't work - dealer refused to come out and repair - would only repair if we brought the stove back to him! Called Quadra Fire, they said we had to work with the dealer! We contacted another dealer who helped us troubleshoot the problem - bad power supply - new dealer had power supply and we picked it up and installed it. Now the convection blower is jammed - cleaned out, spins freely, never jammed but stove thinks it is jammed and will not work. Original dealer still will not come out to repair - new dealer will come out for a cost since we didn't buy from them. Quadra Fire still no help - will have to deal with dealer (who won't help). Is it reasonable to expect us to bring our brand new 400 lb stove into the dealer everytime it needs to be repaired??? Asked dealer for a full refund - he refuses!!! Have had a non-working, brand new stove for 1 week and he refuses a refund??? Inform him that he will either give us our money back or we will dispute on credit card - he says we can't do that - watch me!! We have filed a complaint with Quadra Fire, and the Better Business Bureau. Dealer now agrees to a full refund if we will bring the stove to him! Are you kidding me! I don't know who is worse here - the dealer or the manufaturer. I will never purchase anything from Stone Image in Colorado or Quadra Fire again - the worst appliance and customer service I have ever received. Please if you are thinking of buying anything from these companies - don't!!!!!!!!! Obvioulsy the problems are continuing!

[MtnStvGuy]

jtp, im looking forward to the new AE as well, but i stand by my golden rule of never carrying a pellet stove the first season it was introduced, sometimes i wait two seasons. This year that saved my butt. The new AE is going to be fantastic once the bugs are worked out, i have never seen anything like it on the market but I refuse to be the manufactures R&D department.

[Scottnjtjk]

First, thanks to everyone who provided quality insight and patiently answered my questions about my AE stove. I can't easily say how valuable it has been. :D

With that said, having now had the AE in my home for about 3 weeks, here are my final offerings for those considering the purchase of the AE.

Pros :)

Puts out a lot of heat. Great looking. Love the automated features. Quad has been pretty responsive to my few issues, probably because they have had about 9 months to work on the issues and obtain inventory of updated parts (see below about updated thermostat and C1 Board - A must!)

Cons :(

Don't exactly have to strain to hear it as advertised by Quad. Does this mean that it is not the one of the quietest pellet stoves out there? No, I think it is. Just air blowing through something inherently makes noise (bathroom fans, oven convection fans, blowing through a straw).

Caveats :rolleyes:

1) AE Works very well after updated thermostat (you can tell if you have updated thermostat if it has a calibration feature under "user settings") AND C1 controller board. If you don't have both, get your dealer to get these for you. In my opinion they are essential to a well working stove.

2) I burn nothing but pellets. Can't say anything about other fuels. I believe if you burn other fuels you may want to get more input.

3) Beware of posts from those with alterior motives or who are just angry folks. IMHO you can distinghuish these posts from other problem solving/seeking posts or somewhat objective criticisms by what appears to be a rant.

4) I believe most of those who are buying the AE now who are not being satisfied likely should focus their frustration on their dealer. Quad, for me, has been relatively responsive in addressing my few problems.

5) The smell will go away. Everyone said it would and it did.

I wish you all luck and thank you again for helping my wife and I through this process.

Scott

[Kyle1]

Just briefly, I bought a home two years ago that has only base board heat. Got killed ($700-$1,000 per month) by the electric bill. The local electric supplier has raised rates this year to top it off.

I want to get the most efficient heating system availible that makes sense for my home sq ft and layout. I believe that is the Mt. Vernon unit. However if it is still having problems like this thread shows then I dont want it.

Also, if there have been design improvements made, how do I know that the one Im getting is current. Is there a way to tell by looking at it when I pick it up?

Im looking for an update to this thread.

thanks

[Scottnjtjk]

I've had this stove for about 7 months. Had a few complaints early on, but have had few since. Family and I really enjoy the unit and the heat is pretty cheap. May want to check around some more if you are not going to be using pellets though.

[Kyle1]

Thanks for your input. I went to the local dealer with the intension of purchasing the unit. I noticed that the thermostat on the display unit was "on the blink". The little screen was lit but not readible. The salesman said he didnt know why and that it worked yesterday.

That was it for me, as hard as it was even after this I still wanted it, I left without making the purchase.

[blueflame]

You might look at the label on the box. It will have a s/n and a date. The company can also run the s/n and get date of manufacture.

[Kyle1]

I just couldnt get myself to purchase this unit based on the problems and the price. I found an Enviro Omega stove at a distributor in Baltimore. It turns out that it was the only one around. 60,000 btu made in Canada with a octagon burn pot and agitator for burning corn and poor quality pellets. Its a free standing unit that has a unique look to it. Youll either love it or hate it.

The price was $2,900 a little less than the AE FS and I could only find positive feedback online on it.

Ill let you know how it works out.

Thanks for all of your input.

[jackovalltrades]

I purchased an AE insert in Oct 2007. This unit was manufactured in Sept 2007. I have thus far burned a little over a ton of premium hardwood pellets in the unit without any problems whatsoever. This unit is installed in a very large home and runs on a manual high setting most of the time. My question is related to the burn setting more than anything else. While burning on high (hardwood pellet setting) the unit will operate approximately 2 1/2 hours before performing a self clean. This self clean generates a very small amount of ash. I would like to see this until run longer in between cleanings because each cleaning cycle wastes valuable time that could be used to heat.

I would like to know if anyone has tested other settings and burn cycles to determine what their clean cycles are? Yesterday for example I set the fuel type to soft wood pellets and found that the unit ran for approx. 3 1/2 hours prior to cleaning (again only on HIGH). That cycle produced an amount of ash I though appropriate for a cycle. The problem with that setting however was that the flame appeared to me to be way too high even after I lowered that to -4. I assume the utility pellet setting cleans even faster so I haven't tried that.

Any advise from those burning good quality pellets? At this point I'm leaning toward running it on soft wood pellets even though I'm using hardwood and not worrying about the flame height as much.

-Jack

[jtp10181]

Have you tried running it on automatic mode at all? I would also suggest that. The softwood pellets should give the longest run time between auto-clean. I would think it would be longer than 2.5 hours for hardwood though, its possible on manual mode it cleans more often. You could also try giving the dealer or the Quad 800 number a call and see if they know anything more ab out it. With the 800 number expect to be on hold for at least 5 mins this time of the year, they prefer the calls be channeled through the dealer first.

[jackovalltrades]

thanks for the feedback.

I have tried the automatic mode. I set the desired temp to 69. I found however that the Quad won't go to a Moderate, let alone High mode until it's way too cold in the house. This is after I set my desired differential to 1.5 degrees.

I did call Quad a couple of weeks ago. Their only suggestion was to run it on battery backup mode. They said that in that mode the self clean only occurs once a day. Needless to say this is not a viable option. I was rather disappointed in their "solution".



Have you tried running it on automatic mode at all? I would also suggest that. The softwood pellets should give the longest run time between auto-clean. I would think it would be longer than 2.5 hours for hardwood though, its possible on manual mode it cleans more often. You could also try giving the dealer or the Quad 800 number a call and see if they know anything more ab out it. With the 800 number expect to be on hold for at least 5 mins this time of the year, they prefer the calls be channeled through the dealer first.

[Scottnjtjk]

I have a very large home and if it is cold, I will never get above about 73 or so. With that said, I set it at 85 degrees for 5:00 a.m.. This assures that it will always run on high early in the morning on startup. I know how long it takes to get to 72 or so and set it to drop down to around 75 or so around 8:00 a.m., and it runs on a lower low or medlum to maintain that temparature.

Your conditions will vary, but you get the idea.

Also, if I run it on high all day long on automatic mode, i find that it goes through self clean mode about once a day if it is running almost all day.


Good luck.

[jackovalltrades]

A big thanks! This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. The only thing I'm curious about now is what type of fuel you're burning and what type of fuel you've got the Quad set to.



I have a very large home and if it is cold, I will never get above about 73 or so. With that said, I set it at 85 degrees for 5:00 a.m.. This assures that it will always run on high early in the morning on startup. I know how long it takes to get to 72 or so and set it to drop down to around 75 or so around 8:00 a.m., and it runs on a lower low or medlum to maintain that temparature.

Your conditions will vary, but you get the idea.

Also, if I run it on high all day long on automatic mode, i find that it goes through self clean mode about once a day if it is running almost all day.


Good luck.

[Scottnjtjk]

I use only premium hardwood pellets with a setting reflecting same.

Good luck. :)

Scott

[yamride]

I've had my Mt. Vernon AE for one year now. I've had my share of issues but things are going good now.

As far as the auto clean: That has always been one of my big complaints. They have come out with some new SW that increases the time between cleaning.

Scott, I'm really surprised to hear that you say it only cleans once per day in the Auto mode. I thought the clean cycle was the same regardless of Auto or Manual. I thought the only thing that dictated the clean cycle was what setting the stove was in (l, ml, m, etc). I'll have to give this a try.

Also, I'm not trying to take anything away from this site, but iburncorn.com has got a bunch of people on it who know alot about the AE.

[Scottnjtjk]

In the interest of full disclosure, my estimate is not nearly scientific, but rather from casual obsevation. We run the stove on high for about three hours in the a.m. and about three hours in the evening. Between morning and evening it runs as needed, typically on low or medium low.




Scott, I'm really surprised to hear that you say it only cleans once per day in the Auto mode. I thought the clean cycle was the same regardless of Auto or Manual. I thought the only thing that dictated the clean cycle was what setting the stove was in (l, ml, m, etc). I'll have to give this a try.

Also, I'm not trying to take anything away from this site, but iburncorn.com has got a bunch of people on it who know alot about the AE.

I second the referral of iburncorn.com to prospective or current AE users.

Scott

[jackovalltrades]

ok, here's my update based on suggestions I have followed. I have now run the stove on a High setting on both Manual and Auto mode and there has been no difference in time in between the autoclean. What I did do however is switch from a Hardwood fuel type to Softwood. This has helped tremendously. In the Hardwood mode I was running for about 2 to 2.5 hours between clean cycles. In the Softwood setting the clean cycle is more like 4 hours. I have had to adjust the flame height to -4. After running in Hardwood over the past month and seeing temps drop in the house during those more often than not cleaning cycles, I'll take the double run time!

[yamride]

In the Hardwood mode I was running for about 2 to 2.5 hours between clean cycles. In the Softwood setting the clean cycle is more like 4 hours. I have had to adjust the flame height to -4. After running in Hardwood over the past month and seeing temps drop in the house during those more often than not cleaning cycles, I'll take the double run time!


Was this in the Manual High setting?

[jackovalltrades]

Was this in the Manual High setting?

This was both in auto mode with a temp setting of 85 to ensure High output or just manual with a more reasonable setting. I did not notice any difference.

[QualityExpected]

:confused: I have read a variety of comments related to the Quadrafire Mt. Vernon AE and can now offer some insights from actual experience. I will candidly say that our experience was NOT good although, in the end, we came out ok. Let me elaborate. We purchased this unit because of BTU output, control with a thermostat that could be installed in a remote location, and salesmanship by the dealer. Some mild research (not nearly enough, it turned out) and dealer comments led us to believe that this unit may actually be "better" that a Harmon product (which they were also selling). Cold weather and a closing installation window pushed us to place an order and purchase and install (ourselves) another $1000. worth of S/S liner. The stove was received and installed without a hitch. An attempted startup failed the first time and the dealer was called to resolve after some superficial personal troubleshooting could NOT find any obvious install or stove issues. The dealer was very responsive, initially, BUT I believe, from a subsequent conversation, at a loss to clearly defined the problem. He ordered a new computer board. Installed, the stove started and ran for some time, BUT ultimately failed to restart during one of the cleaning cycles. Following the installation of a SECOND computer board, the dealer hung around for some 2-1/2 hrs (after I had to leave for a dinner) and had several conversations with the factory to try to figure out why our stove was "not operating correctly" as stated in a note he left behind. That is, he advised that he was NOT satisfied that the operating problems had been fixed when he had to leave for the evening. After talking with my wife, I called the next day to inform him that the stove was to be removed and full credit issued. Ultimately, after additional factory/dealer "mis-communications" and some controlled BUT disgusted conversations with the dealer, we finally got a full CREDIT for this unit. While thankful for the outcome (although we have been left without a significant source of heat in the middle of winter) I can advise ANYONE that I would never purchase another Quadrafire product.

It is a simple proposition that the public expects to recieve the benefits of the tools that they are exchanging hard-earned cash for. I have read more than one thread implying that we are either impatient, or not empathetic, or need to give the manufacturer time to work out the problems. Baloney! A willingness to extend "understanding" may be relevant for those you love, or any entity that you have built up a trusting relationship with. I do not have that relationship with the folks at the helm of the Quadrafire organization.

What I thought I had ordered was a product that would start the first time, run reliably, warm my home, and be a valued purchase. What I received was a series of operating problems due to either poor design or quality control, or both, frustrations with the dealer, a poor opinion of the manufacturer, and a forum to share these thoughts to save others from what, I opinion, was a mistaken purchase.

I won't detail all of the RED flags seen over the course of our experience BUT I will tell you that I was and am amazed that any company such as this can seriously expect to garner success by doling out so much frustration to its customers.

One thing I do believe has tremendous value is the opportunity to share candidly, yet responsibly, opinions about a myriad of choices in the marketplace. Great products (quality, value, and empathy and respect for the customer in the value delivered) will win the day every time. Produce the opposite and I think the result is pretty predictable over the long haul.

[SeattlePioneer]

Well, it's certainly unfortunate that there were all the issues that have been described around this stove. I'm glad you got your money back.


I'm sure the dealer and manufacturer would vastly prefer equipment that worked the way they expected as well. When it doesn't, it's a costly PIA for everyone.


But that's the way it can be with pretty much any mechanical device, especially new designs. Sometimes products just don't work the way expected. While unfortunate, that's a risk you take with any such purchase, even if it should be a small risk.


So go ahead: be angry. You're entitled. It sounds to me like the dealer and manufacturer were acting reasonably in a difficult situation to solve the problem. But when the POS wont work and no one can figure out why, everyone involved, customer, dealer and manufacturer are bound to be unhappy.

[RVParkdog]

I have had so many problems with my mt vernon I don't know where to start I purchased it in Oct 07 and it's been a real nightmare I can't use my stove at night, smokes up entire house and sets off smoke alarms,somehow unburned pellets get into the ash pan and smolder and smoke ???during the day I empty it every time it goes into a shutdown/clean mode???? Factory's attitude is see the dealer don't bother us !!! I purchased the stove 150 miles away and the local dealer wants nothing to do with it. the dealer I purchased it from just tells me to bring it back and they will look at it ??? so far I have replaced the control board,thermostat, blower, thermocoupler, bin sensor,exniter mod, and ash pan deflector, with NO help from dealer I bought it from or the factory.I am on my last straw...

[QualityExpected]

I am sorry "RV" that you are having the experiences described, and that the dealer/mfg. will NOT assist in resolving the problem. Isn't it interesting that neither turned down the money that consumated the purchase.

On our part, we had started a process with the C/C company to dispute the bill because of a poor product, and a dealer slow to provide our refund. Even that affair was a mess of one story, then another story, and the proverbial RH/LH that weren't talking.

Saddest of all is what appears to be a mass of companies that simply DO NOT CARE. Profits and bonuses and "competitive edge" seem to drown out concepts like quality, conscience, and courtesy. An old salesman that I once knew taught me, what became obvious in later years, "the customer is EVERYTHING in business". If you see them in that way, and strive to provide the absolute BEST product/BEST value possible, and then back-up the effort without excuse, you are bound to create your own market and have great success!

The best I can offer is encouragement to "make a lot of noise" until they listen. And don't hesitate to go right to the top of the executive chain! Best of luck.

[blueflame]

RVParkDog,
Sorry to hear you have had so many problems. Where are you located? I would get on the phone and call Quad. The smoke in your house could be the t/c. If they are not sensing the right temp it will think the fire has gone out and go into auto cleaning dumping the smoldering emblers. If you have had fires in the ash pan you need to look at the springs holding the floor tight to the firepot. They loose their strength when expose to excessive heat. Typically the springs on the left side. Good luck and call Quad...

[RVParkdog]

The T/C has been replaced that only took 3 weeks , it was backordered , and guess what I had to pay the shipping ???? and the local dealer even wanted to charge me for the part he said he had to pay for it ???..can you believe that ????
Something else it has just stsrted doing is when it is doing a clean cycle it sounds like metal twisting creeking, and squeeling something like the Titanic probably sounded just before it sunk...I keep looking at it thinking one of the 4 legs is being lifed off the grown....
Thanks for the Input

[RVParkdog]

Latest on Quadrafire..... the "regional expert" from Hearth & Homesaid said to contact nearest dealer the one that wanted me to buy parts and pay shipping to try to repair the problem...I was told there will be a service charge this is not the dealer I purchased it from.. I purchased it from a dealer 250 miles away, ....I just can't believe this ...first I pay over $3500.00 for the stove and now they want me to pay more to fix the unit that has never worked correctly from day one.
Am I missing something?? or is there something really wrong with this company ???

[Michael Kielion]

Thank you for your note. We purchased the same pellet stove and have had a similar experience. At least your situation appears to have turned out for the best. We are still in the midst of attempting to resolve our own. Like you, we purchased the stove due to all of the so-called technology and conveniences. We had problems from day one with a loud vibrating sound on start up. Within days of the initial installation, we were told that the entire back of the stove may have to be replaced. We were even told by someone we spoke with at Quadrafire that they were aware of the problems and had "rushed" the product to market. I will save you all the details but suffice it to say we have had computer boards, drawer gaskets, glow plugs and thermostats replaced. At the present time, the stove is not working at all. We awakened last week at 4:00 a.m. to a loud metal grinding noise. They are speculating it is one of the blowers but it is anyone's guess at this point. It has blown electrical breakers in our house due to "shorts" in the wiring as well. The dealer seemed more concerned with the initial sale focusing on the reported state-of the art technology and has been less than responsive regarding the on-going problems we have experienced. Quadrafire is supposedly working on our complaint at this time, nearly 2 months after our official complaint was lodged following numerous service visits from our local dealer. We would be happy to get a full refund so we could purchase another product; one that will provide us with what we thought we had purchased-a reliable, convenient, energy efficient means of heating our home. I can not express enough how disappointed we are with the quality, or lack thereof, of this product and the customer service we have received. I, too, would never recommend a Quadrafire product to anyone I know.

[homenew06]

I bought a mt vernon AE in Feb 2008.Had high co level called fire dept.kept stove off for 5 days till store came out to fix.They said there was a recall on the main board.They just replaced the board today which is 3/5/08 no we will see.I have my new CO detector pluged in PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE HAS THIS PROBLEM OF HIGH CO LEVELS AND SMOKE SMELL IN HOUSE

[Michael Kielion]

Yes it set off our Carbondioxide detector. We currently have it unplugged and are waiting to hear back from Quad rep...

Many problems to mention right now.. Later when at home we can explain in detail..

[homenew06]

Yes it set off our Carbondioxide detector. We currently have it unplugged and are waiting to hear back from Quad rep...

Many problems to mention right now.. Later when at home we can explain in detail..

Mike had the brain box replaced like I told you.So far all is ok working well no CO detected flame is good a small smell when first fires up but after that runs great.Ck on brain box when you call dealer.

[Michael Kielion]

I hope that works for you...
Ours was replaced, The main controller board twice, igniter plug twice, thermostat twice, gaskets around the ash pan twice, now they believe the exhaust blower fan has gone bad..We are assuming at this point that that is what has been making our CO2 detector go off. We made the decision at this point that we have had enough and just unplugged it to be safe when we sleep at night... Since the rep advised us that they have worked through many of these issues with the newer models, we have demanded a replacement stove without "bugs" or a full refund...The local rep had talked with the factory and is going to replace our stove.. I think it helps that my wife is an attorney and knows our legal rights as consumers...Quadra Fire has had more than enough attempts to make it right. From what I have been reading on the web there are many people experiencing similar problems. We loved the looks of the stove when it did work although it never did work as sold. It really can't burn corn as marketed..because it clunks up and it certainly was never quiet as advertised.

Mike

[homenew06]

I hope that works for you...
Ours was replaced, The main controller board twice, igniter plug twice, thermostat twice, gaskets around the ash pan twice, now they believe the exhaust blower fan has gone bad..We are assuming at this point that that is what has been making our CO2 detector go off. We made the decision at this point that we have had enough and just unplugged it to be safe when we sleep at night... Since the rep advised us that they have worked through many of these issues with the newer models, we have demanded a replacement stove without "bugs" or a full refund...The local rep had talked with the factory and is going to replace our stove.. I think it helps that my wife is an attorney and knows our legal rights as consumers...Quadra Fire has had more than enough attempts to make it right. From what I have been reading on the web there are many people experiencing similar problems. We loved the looks of the stove when it did work although it never did work as sold. It really can't burn corn as marketed..because it clunks up and it certainly was never quiet as advertised.

Mike

I am glad to hear you are getting a new one.The AE model is as i understand the new series.Hope this one works well for you.Mine seems tobe be doing better since the board was replaced.Let me know how it works out for you. Mike

[RVParkdog]

I'm still waiteing to get mine fixed 120 days and counting, fills house with smoke and sets off fire alarms, pellets somehow are getting into ash bin then hot ash exnites them on clean cycle ???, this is a new house and my windows are smoked up all the time, it keeps going into a clean cycle for no reason and sounds like the Titanic going down when it opens the firepot grate I have been nice to H&H so far and have gotten no where ??? I get phone calls from (district spec) rep. but NOTHING has happens just... we will get back to ya ????or call the dealer and schedule a service call at "my expence" ....not going to happen!!!!!
My next step is contact my Credit Card Co and BBU to start the "process" I have told H&H they are very foolish to let this happen I have even offered to trade it for a new one ??? no comments so far
I'm going to wait 2 more days then it's over

[Cassimir]

I bought and installed mine in Nov 07. Since then, just like many of you the brain was replaced, ashpot, blower, coupler etc.

Just recently I woke up at 1:00 in the am to a fire in the ashpan. It was so hot we couldn't open it up barehanded but when we did get it open we had to pour water over it all to get it out. My whole house was filled with smoke (I could smell it all the way upstairs in the bedroom).

The rep came down and replaced the blower, is ordering a new brain, other pieces, new thermostat etc BLA BLA BLA.

Now that I'm reading that mine is not the only one and they know all about these problems it's pissing me off.

My family could have been burnt to death and I'm scared to death of this thing.

I wonder if they can spell CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT??????????

I'm waiting to hear back from the rep today. I am going to demand either my money back or a suitable replacement.

Does anyone know if there has been a new one out this year without these problems? Or is the newest one from last year?

I don't want them to replace it with another lemon!!!!!!

Giselle

[sah22]

I bought the Mt. Vernon Insert about 6 weeks ago. Propane has skyrocketed and I decided $3500 was tough to swallow but worth it. It started up beautifully. It worked great and the heat output was fantastic (for about a couple of days). We got an error message about the vacuum switch during the first sign of wind. It filled up my house with smoke. The switch was replaced. First sign of wind, same thing. Our dealer has been willing to help but corporate keeps coming up with excuses. They say we need a new motherboard now and that will fix everything. We have been waiting for this board for over 4 weeks. I still use the stove but when the wind comes the smoke comes into the house. This is becasue the vacuum switch is bypassed (per manufacturer's instructions). I've had a neighbor ask if everything was all right when her kid came home smelling like a camp fire. Like everyone else, I feel if i pay this much, it should work. At least fix it fast. It's bad because I wanted to save money on propane but instead I blew $3500 and still have to use my propane to heat the house. I can use my stove when it's not windy but my particular area has wind quite often.

I'm with Cassmir - Let's start a classaction suit. Michael, you said your wife is a lawyer. Get it started. Sign me up.

[Cassimir]

You know I totally forgot about the wind thing. I live high uptop of a hill and it is very windy here also. We live on a penninsula and I overlook Boston Harbor in the Front and to the side Boston Light so we get the winds off of the ocean constantly but when it really starts to come in northeast my stove blows dark smoke back into the house. On top of everything else, I must of thought of this a minor when talking to the rep as last year they just said that shouldn't be happening when they other guy came out to replace everything!!!

I think I remember the brand new white carpeting inlayed in my livingroom HAHA. We just built it and moved in Last Nov when we installed the stove. I thought we were looking a little grey these days - thought it was just the weather.

Guess I have to laugh even though I'm totally disgusted with this whole thing.

I have e-mailed the rep who came last Tuesday yesterday and today to find out what is going on with the repairs and let him know what I'v found out on this site and he still hasn't returned a call.

He had the audacity to tell me my stove was safe to run when not home and at night!!! He also just bull****ted his was through the problems stating that he only knows of a couple of problems but those were because the people were using New England pellets!!!!! What a Crock.

I'll wait a day or two for a call then I will take my journey to another level.

Giselle

[sah22]

Well I got a phone call after work. I guess my new board finally made it in. My dealer is going to put it in tonight. I guess Quadrafire sent him a new thermostat to go with it. I don't know why because my thermostat is working fine. I guess perhaps there is some new software and it will communicate differently with the board? At any rate, I do hope it works and will provide a response. I am having some doubts reading all the comments. It does seem like they (QF) are just grasping at solutions and throwing them out. Hopefully not. I really do love the stove when it is working (in my case when it is not windy outside and not filling my house with smoke). Supposedly this will fix it. I will report.

[jtp10181]

The older wall stats will not work with the newest boards. One of the issues fixed in the newest control boards is the VAC SWITCH errors some people get with certain vent configurations. I have one customer with this problem that I need to go replacethier board as well, but they have never had massive smoke come inside.

[sah22]

JTP - Thanks for the note. I'm guessing I was getting smoke inside because the vacuum swith was just bypassed and where my venting is, the wind usually goes perpendicular to it. I do not get smoke in the house when there is no wind.

The new board was installed last night and the "new" thermostat came in. I replaced the thermostat while my dealer replaced the board. As I took my "old" one off and compared it with the "new" one, my "old" one had a newer REV date. My original had a date of 2/07/08 and the one I got last night was 9/??/07. I showed by dealer and he said maybe the factory just refurbished it and updated something. I put it in anyway but have also kept my original one. It seems to be working well but so did my older board without wind. I don't think strong winds are in the forecast until Tuesday, so I will update then, if not sooner.

I do admit though that I love this thing when there is no smoke coming into my house.

[sysint]

...I do admit though that I love this thing when there is no smoke coming into my house.That's like saying you love your wife when she's not trying to kill you.

[jtp10181]

That's like saying you love your wife when she's not trying to kill you.

Do you have some sort of a problem with Quadrafire / HHT / HNI ? There are some people on here in these recent posts being reasonable and trying to get their stoves repaired and working. All you are doing in this thread and the other is trying to stir up emotions. I am not saying writing a letter to HHT or HNI (mentioned in another thread) would be a bad thing or is a bad suggestions but its just the way it is being stated. You know what they will do when the get the letter? They will call the dealer and the dealer will tell them they are doing what Quad has been telling them to do.

[Cassimir]

First of all my other thread was posted before I found this one or visa versa.
I was asking for help with anyone who had problems.
Do you think that I am stirring up problems with the fact that my house could have burned down with 3 generations of our family in it.
I'm not sure if you are replying to me or someone else but my concerns are valid.
This stove last night again started burning in the ashpot.

If they can get my stove to work properly and be safe to heat my home , which is why I bought it originally, I will be satisfied.

BUT for a rep to come here and replace a blower and tell me that it is safe to run at night and when I am not home, when it is certainly not, is negligable.

I just want what I paid for and nothing else. Well actually I want my family not to burn in a fire because a company released a stove that was not properly tested but put on the market anyway.

I can't imagine that you yourself would put someone elses family in danger just because your boss or job told you to do so and that seems to be the case with my problems and maybe not anyone elses.

I would have much rather had him tell me straight about the problems and tell me not to use the stove unless it is tended to than to tell me that I just need to get the confidence back to leave it unattended.

I don't think that I am being unreasonable for wanting that.

Giselle

[jtp10181]

Cassimir, you are one of the people I was saying is being reasonable. The person I quoted, sysint, seems to be trying to stir up trouble.

[sysint]

Do you have some sort of a problem with Quadrafire / HHT / HNI ? There are some people on here in these recent posts being reasonable and trying to get their stoves repaired and working. All you are doing in this thread and the other is trying to stir up emotions. I am not saying writing a letter to HHT or HNI (mentioned in another thread) would be a bad thing or is a bad suggestions but its just the way it is being stated. You know what they will do when the get the letter? They will call the dealer and the dealer will tell them they are doing what Quad has been telling them to do.If Quadrafire can't figure out from the letter their dealer can't handle the issue they are really dumb. If there is enough SOOT (let's identify it properly), that tells me combustion gas is in the house. That is not proper under any circumstances and needs to be repaired. The HO needs to have an actual letter to the manufacturer to validate the claim and seek a proper resolution. The dealer is not handling this issue properly. Let's take an oil burner by contrast... if it's dumping soot into the space it gets red tagged. Time to red tag this unit and have it repaired. The problem is that IT IS A NEW UNIT. Please identify whereby the condition of ashpan fires is OK. I've been in the HVAC business for over 20 years. I'm not stirring up trouble. The trouble is with the unit and it needs attention. I've got nothing personal against Quadrafire. I own one and it runs fine. This new model has design problems and needs correction. R&D'ing in this persons house is unacceptable.

If Quadrafire can't figure out they have a responsibility with their product, then I'd go after them. Either way, they are doing their reputation a disfavor by not being more aggressive at solving the issue. Personally, I think the dealer is probably incompetent and Quadrafire isn't even aware of the issues yet with this person. However, I'll put money on it that they have seen this problem already....

EDIT-- What I don't understand is your position jtp- If you bought a microwave that blew out smoke every so often you would have returned it for a new one. If your new TV would have lines across it every so often you would have taken it back for a new one. If your new car would arbitrarily not start you would have it in the shop constantly until you could declare it a Lemon by WI law and you would get a new car after only five visits with the same problem... However, you have some double standard with Quadrafire?

EDIT 2 -- Let's take this a couple more steps if Quadrafire doesn't get involved.... next up is a third party pellet stove rep or the local building inspector condemning the installation and/or the equipment. I would think Quadrafire would get off their seat if a well written letter is submitted directly to them. Actually, I'd call Q-fire, talk to somebody and get their name and address and follow up with a certified letter. I'd do that immediately.

[sah22]

Well, here is the update. Nice weather conditions outside (with the exception of cold) and the stove was running beautifully. I love it. Last night was the first test of wind. Guess what?

Yep, smoke in the house with the vacuum switch error. I'm so sad. I guess I need them to take back the unit. I don't know what to replace it with. I hear there smaller units (castille, santa fe, etc.) don't have any of these problems. I just wanted the higher output to heat my whole house. Any recommendations?

[sysint]

I have a Castille. I don't like that the hopper is too small and over time the fit of the cast iron panels is suspect because of the way they attach. Also, I don't like the way they do the OA connection and the blower is loud.

However, I'm free of ashpan fires, backdrafted smoke, and haven't had any hopper or ignition module problems.

However, my brother has a Yankee Bay and really his has been performing better for the money. I'm not fond of the styling, but functionally, it's better than the Castille.

I had been looking at this Mt Vernon and doing a comparison with the Harmon Accentra and the person I know who installed this unit loves it. Zero issues.

EDIT-- SAH's they make intake and exhaust terminations that are more directional wind resistant. Possibly you could check into that.

[sah22]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions.

I don't think the wind redirect thing you are talking about will work. I put up two big pieces of plywood to block the wind. I mean these pieces really should have blocked all of the wind and i still had the same results. Oh well.

[sysint]

I'm talking about terminations that have positioned baffles that negate directional wind. You can't recreate that with some plywood... unless you spend alot of time at it..

[hearthman]

If you installed combustible plywood anywhere near that vent termination, remove it at once! Fire Hazard! Also, the plywood can actually cause a positive pressure zone at the termination thereby inhibiting performance. Install it to the listed instructions or not at all. Do NOT bypass primary safety controls such as vacuum switches or snap disc and never modify the termination or place shields around it. Even if you don't burn the house down, you could cause it to recirculate fly ash and fumes back into the house.

If you have a combustion appliance spilling smoke into the home, shut it down until it is corrected. Install a low level CO monitor--not a UL listed alarm. If the unit has unfriendly fires, such as in the hopper or ashpan, shut it down and contact a specialist. If there is damage to your home, contact your insurance carrier to clean up the home then let them subrogate to whomever they feel is responsible.

Contact your dealer by certified mail return receipt and Cc the mfr. They used to maintain a competent tech services staff located in the factory where they could run ask an engineer if they were stumped. The qualifications of dealers varies widely as does their willingness to respond. Their compensation for warranty issues pays only a portion of their true costs so you can see why some are hesitant to get too involved. Keep good records of all calls and communications. Always include the unit serial number in all written communications. Always write down the full name, date and time of anyone you talk to.

It's a shame there have been so many problems with this unit as when it is operating, it is a heating monster and very quiet. Let's hope the dealers step up to the plate and respond but more importantly, let's hope HHT trains these dealers on this unit and its idiosyncrasies. Right now, HHT has a skeleton training program, which barely covers the basics and nothing model specific unless the sales reps. spend some one on one time with a dealer.

As with any mfr., please be patient and civil but stay on them until you get the problem properly addressed.

HTH,
Hearthman

[sysint]

"Do NOT bypass primary safety controls such as vacuum switches or snap disc and never modify the termination or place shields around it." --- Well there Hearthman I think you need to looksee where the DEALER bypassed the switch and you can see the brilliant dealer support Quadrafire has....

The problem here is that Quadrafire Home Hearth Technologies is doing research and development in peoples homes. Apparently UL allows this "practical home research and development" as the thing is rated, right?

[hearthman]

I'm making general statements for everyone's edification. I am not taking sides in this. However, the burden of responsibility ultimately rests with the mfr. and not their dealers. You can bypass a control while on site troubleshooting but to leave it bypassed is negligence. While dealers sell and service the product, they are not direct agents of the mfr.. This mfr. apparently has dismantled their technical services dept. and insulated themselves from direct public contact to an extent. I would recommend anyone not satisfied with the response from their dealer is to contact the Quad Brand Manager, Steve Tate with details of the problem.

To defend mfrs. a little here, they can only see so much of what happens out there. If nobody is reporting in problems or positive feedback, they have little visibility. That's why I always recommend you Cc the mfr. with the serial number of the product, esp. this mfr. because that is how your stove is tracked in their database--not by customer name or address.

If the dealer is falling short, keep up the writing campaign to both the dealer and mfr. so they both share your pain.

I agree in part with the comments about too much R&D being done in peoples homes. As I said near the begining of this debacle, I have personal information about the development and launch of this product and know there was a ton of pressure to launch it two summers ago whether fully ready or not. This product launch coincided with a major reduction in the engineering, quality and technical staff of the mfr. Now, they are paying the price for this move.

As bad as this product's entry into the market seems, it is by no means the end of this mfr. They recently bought out Harman Stoves for about 27.5 million in cash. HNI is a two billion dollar / yr. company that has almost no debt. The hearth side of HNI accounts for about 25% of their sales or ~500 million, at least before this recent economy. What I'm saying is, don't expect HNI to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy over this mess. They will get it straight.

I don't agree with how they are managing their technical support but then again, they probably don't agree with how I run my company. However, as a mfr., they do have certain responsibilities to the public trust and I think they still haven't fully appreciated them. Their primary response in the issue of this stove coupled with the economic down turn has been to support their dealers at the expense of some other areas such as engineering, technical, field support, training, even sales and marketing, which are typically the sacred cows.

If there is a document from this mfr. stating for the dealer to leave the stove's vacuum switch or other safety controls bypassed then they could be in trouble. If the dealer acted on his own, then he is responsible.

Hearthman.

[Cassimir]

I sit and read all these comments and can come to only one conclusion.

There are many problems with this unit and yes it was sent out into the market without the proper testing and safety assurances that they should have done before releasing it. Not only are there issues with performance but serious issues with safety.

Saying that, if in fact that they are striving in todays industry, they should make every effort to remove or recall all units that have safety issues before they have multiple lawsuits because of deaths due to releasing it too soon with said safety issues.

My situation is serious safety issues. Others have performance issues. But no one can tell me that they don't know about these issues. They know and are trying hard to rectify BUT are not trying hard enough for the people whose stoves are dangerous.

I, myself have been very patient. I have allowed the dealer to come in, multiple times and try to rectify my issues. Then have welcomed a rep from Quadra Fire to come inand also trouble shoot my issues when it became obvious that my unit is a fire hazard. It has been almost 4 weeks now since I've heard from him. Once since he's been here he e-mailed me back telling me that it won't be more than a couple of weeks to fix as long as the "dealer" does what he's supposed to do to get the parts.

He also stated to me after his visit that "I" needed to feel comfortable again about leaving my stove unattended because there is no safety issue with it.
Well blazing fires in my ashpan at 1:00 in the AM is certainly a safety issue with smoke filling up my home and soot all over my rugs, valances, blinds, window sills and furniture.

My stove also "back drafts" if that's the proper term for the wind blowing and black smoke filling my home even after parts have been replaced, along with so many other problems.

If that's all was happening, then I would feel comfortable with the manufacturer, "testing" problem solving tecniques - as long as they agree to pay for the damage it is causing to my home, but as you can see, it is soo much more than that.

Is it going to take a stove in another home that actually starts a blaze that costs a human life before they actually take full action to rectify this issue.

I have gone on their website and let them know about the problem, the current status of problem solving and the lack of timeleness and requested that someone get in touch with me asap. I fully explained the hazzard issues that I am having and not one person has gotten back to me in 2 weeks. How sad is that?? My e-mail was pleasant, polite and not intimidating in the least but it was urgent, to the point and explained the severity of my problems.

I believe that Quadra fire is telling it's employees to just make us believe that there are no real issues with this stove and that there are very isolated incedenses when in fact that is not true.

They need to step up to the plate and admit the seriousness of these problems and take care of their customers. We paid in good faith for a good product and received a sub-par product.

So what is the next step? I am writing to them directly but what makes me think that they will even respond when a direct e-mail was totally dismissed without a call?

We also own and operate our own business. We guarantee our craftsmanship, stand behind our work and always rectify our customers issues within a timely manner. I could only expect a reputable company like Quadra Fire to do the same.

Giselle

[jrbenny]

Address the letter to the president and copy the board of directors.

When I worked for an OEM, letters to the president were handled expeditiously.

[sysint]

CERTIFIED letter.

[sysint]

To Quad Brand Manager, Steve Tate:

I have a problem with your online customer support. It answers absolutely no questions. You would be better off not having it, especially when the problem is the dealer. All the automated responses state to contact the dealer. Don't you find that ironic?

I also have a problem with Quadrafire doing R&D on their Mt. Vernon product in peoples homes. If you want to do R&D in homes, those people should be compensated fairly and you shouldn't have a UL listing (shame on UL-- make note-- contact UL).

I further have a problem with dealers who bypass your safeties, ashpan fires and soot gathering on walls, furniture and other items inside the house from your product. I'm also not fond of your company not having recall bulletins when parts need to be relocated for better operation and dealers subsequently contacting homeowners for warranty service with Quadrafire picking up the tab. Allowing any dealer to charge $75.00 fee just to do warranty work is outrageous.

Further, I'd like to see more professional documentation on your website. Possibly you could discover more competent HVAC companies that could work with your product.

Thanks.

[jerry luedke]

Hi all, new member, Jerry in Wisconsin. I am purchasing a pellet stove in my area for the coming season. I get my pellets pretty cheap, from up north by the semi load, guys get together and you pay for what you need. Pretty nice. anyway, i am looking at either a harman xxv which i really like or the quad mt vernon. its now may, 2008 and i have read with interest the posts of the quad, (very negitive)but i understand both sides. I will be using it to only heat the basement which i have redone a portion of for a small sitting, tv room for the holidays, family over etc, to watch movies, or have a smoke ,whatever. i didn't go with corn as i was told that if you want mice, just store corn. No go. Wife would flip. can anyone tell me if the Quad has worked out their obvioulsy bad problems?? I have really leaned heavy toward the harman due to other guys i know have them and are really pleased with them . the xxv just because my wife likes the look, as with the quad mt vernon. I really don't have the money to spend to find out something has problems but the posts i've read were from 06 and early 07. i'll be looking at them , both, in the next few weeks as i want it in and ready for the fall. let me know if you have any thoughts or feelings on either of these stoves and you can get to me directly buy e-mail at djluedke@verizon.net. I like hearing direct just because i don't have the time to search the posts for answers. I work road construction and am gone alot so i need fast responses that i can check on the weekends. thanks to all and you have a great forum. looking forward to hearing from you if you have any info for me. thanks
Jerry in wisconsin

[sysint]

Jerry, it is unlikely your basement needs the capacity of the Mt. Vernon. You probably would do fine with the Castile if looks are important.

Although, if/when working properly the Mt. Vernon is very quiet running with the fan.

Please pull your email from the post and move it to your profile.

[Putnam]

Just curious if the problems have been worked out with the Mt Vernon model. Any other brand suggestions if these are proving to be troublesome units?

Thank you

[Cassimir]

They came down and replaced a bunch of things, unfortunately, it is summer and haven't been able to run the stove to see if the bugs are worked out!!!

We'll see come September. Unfortunately, this is a great unit, just put out before they had all the bugs worked out.

Even thought it took a while to get fixed, hopefully, I still like the stove and look of it. It puts out a lot of heat. My main floor is 3000 square feet and all open xcept for about 975 of it. I have never turned my heat on on this level yet because of the usage of the stove. Unless the stove was not working HAHA.

Unfortunately, because of the humidity, I can smell the soot in my home.

[trow1]

Just wanted to share my story with anyone considering this stove. I purchased this model at end of year clearance sale in April of 07. The dealer I purchased it from was also selling Harmans. I ultimately decided to go with the QF because of its advanced features and ability to burn numerous fuels. Over the past year and a half I had experienced a lot of problems with the stove myself. Never really thought much of any of the problems as this was my first pellet stove. I thought perhaps this was normal. Further, customer service from QF and my dealer has been excellent! They were very responsive and worked around my scheduled. I had a dealer tech working at my house no less then 4 time last winter. The last visit they brought QF regional rep along with them. However, every problem that has been described in this forum has happened to my stove. I have experienced Ash Pan Fires (About a dozen times) My entire house top to bottom is covered in shoot(Furniture window blinds, walls and carpets),had problem with pellets not igniting properly, fan blower failed once and was replaced, blower became loud (fixed with updated motherboard). I have also received all the newest updates (new mother board and wall unit) . Thought they had worked out all the problem and I would be smooth sailing this year. However when I went to go fire it up this past weekend I noticed the cast iron cover inside stove appeared to have had stress fractures (Its Solid Iron). I called the dealer yesterday and they stopped me mid sentence, apparently this was another common problem that others complained about last year. Told me to stop in the store and they would replace no problem. Also told me it would not be a problem to run it in the meantime as it was not a safety concern. So when I finally fired it up it worked for one cycle. When it shut down for its first auto clean it never restarted. I received a vacuum SW error message on my wall unit. First time this has happened but I see now many others have already received this error as well. I sought out this forum to see if any others were experiencing the similar problems. Guess I have found the answer. So just wanted to warn those who are in the market for a new stove and considering this model. The manufacturer seems to be reputable and as I stated the customer service has been excellent. But they clearly have not worked out all the bugs on this particular product. Its a shame because I like the concept of what it should be when it works properly. However in the year and a half I have owned it it has not worked problems for a single day. Further, I am a bit more concerned over the ash pan fires now then I was previously. My dealer had assured me last year that it was perfectly safe and that the fire would be contained within tthe stove. However after reading several other reviews I am now much more concerned. Saving a little money on heating my home is not Worth losing loved ones over in a house fire. Thats my biggest fear. I think I am going to unplug the unit for good now and see what can be done about getting the unit replaced with another model or getting my money. I will be using my propane furnace until then.

[trow1]

Sorry, hit submit twice.

[sysint]

To Quad Brand Manager, Steve Tate:

Apparently your stove still stinks, literally and figuratively. Please inform us why your company shouldn't be reported to any testing lab that actually passed this piece of junk.

Further, aren't the BBB and other industry watchdogs calling?

Give me a break Steve. Your stove causes fires outside the firebox. This is not a joke.

Look-- what you Mt. Vernon owners need to do is go to UL labs and contact them about the defective product that Underwriters Laboratories PASSED. Here is the link: How to Report your Quadrafire Mt. Vernon is junk to UL (https://www.ul.com/consumers/conproddb.cfm)

Quadrafire manufactures this product and obviously doesn't care. Maybe UL values their reputation and will act on this.

Trow1-- "My dealer had assured me last year that it was perfectly safe and that the fire would be contained within the stove."
Have them put that in writing with a backup letter from Quadrafire. Something tells me that will never happen. I think this outfit now owns Harmon. I'd suggest they give you a Harmon Accentra with installation and an apology.

[sysint]

Quadra Fire support is legendary apparently--and not in a good way (http://hearth.com/ratesingles/rate1479.html)

[SeattlePioneer]

I thought we had buried this thread.

It seems to be immortal.


Isn't there someone with a sword who can cut it's head off?

[sysint]

I think what this industry has is about 5 good techs, one of which is retired... and posts on a message board. Those remaining 4 techs work for 2 companies.

That's the problem on the service side. Then you have a manufacturer that is largely unresponsive and irresponsible that apparently doesn't have an interest in generating their service side distributors with higher standards.

How does it stop? -- It's very simple: QF representative posting here or even putting something on their website on how they are solving the issues and how they are going to be responsible with their customers. They are using the Ostrich method instead.

[hearthman]

There are at least two HHT representatives that post on this forum. No, I'm not one of them. The transactions posted here do get sent up the line from time to time.
FYI, Steve Tate is no longer the brand manager for Quad--he moved on to pellet sales with another company.
They sent this unit back to R&D, made changes then re-launched back in July 2008, so I'm guessing they thought they had the bugs worked out. The main thing to understand is that venting here on this forum is not going to fix your problems. All I can advise is stay after your dealer.
I know many of you are frustrated but I urge you to demonstrate a level of restraint here. There is a big difference btw someone screaming threats versus someone who is remaining calm but not going away. Just a suggestion. Remember, a company cannot respond to a problem if they are not notified of it. In addition to your dealer, write to Quad including the model and serial number of your appliance detailing the problem. They will kick it up to the dealer but at least it is on their radar. Maybe they thought they had the problem licked and the dealer is so busy he is not reporting it up the line.

I guess Sysint doesn't rate me as a good tech!:D
Peace,

[sysint]

Quite the contrary, you are one of the 5 guys.

I can imagine the guy moved on... Hearthman, your industry stinks to me. There aren't enough professional and qualified guys and I think the reason for that is there isn't enough qualified contractors which directly goes back to Quadra Fire not doing enough to qualify quality contractors. It's their fault, the equipment problems are their fault, and they need to get themselves straight.

An owner shouldn't have to complain to the manufacturer. The manufacturer needs to get their act together with their distribution.

We have all had manufacturers that have made products with issues. The difference is the professional contractors go back and get immediate results. This not showing up for weeks, making false guarantees, parts not being available for weeks, and Q-Fire hiding rather than being forthcoming and proper with their product means everything that is posted here is them deserving what they get.

Quadra Fire needs to do the following:

Get a real website with technical documentation available like every major heating company does.
Get real distributors (dealers) that are qualified with trained (approved) technicians. These dealers should have at least one qualified technician. (NATE-- whatever something)
Get a better handle on parts. Parts taking weeks to arrive is ridiculous.
Provide bulletins on issues and be quick to state problems and resolutions.

This is the way professional companies act.

[hearthman]

Sysint, I cannot argue with any of your points. I just got back from the Board of Directors meeting for the HPBA in Chicago and shook them up on how our industry has gotten away with so little training and education. We are developing our Long Range Planning and this is a key feature to survival and licensure in the future. Right now, it is hard enough to get a manager to commit his people for even one day per yr.
I teach the NFI Certifications and the recertifications are running only about 25%.

Yes, there is a lot more the mfrs. can and should be doing. The HHT training program is very, very basic. For instance, in most cases, you do not have models or cut-aways of actual models to work on and see where things are located, what it takes to get to them, what types of hardware and controls are used, etc. You have to figure it out on your own. They provide only a minimum of technical info. on the various systems and components. For instance: there is nothing written down noting the normal acceptable resistance ranges for each part such as the blowers, vacuum switch, snap discs, etc. There is no information on normal limits for exhaust temps, vent pressures, exhaust velocity, etc. What is the CFM rating of the combustion blower? What is the normal actual exhaust in CFM without any venting? What are the normal surface temps.? They view all this as double naught spy (Jethro) top secret information. What's the normal temp rise on convection air at each fan speed?
The sad thing is, this mfr. gives more data than most other mfrs. Harman does ok with certain aspects of their pellet stoves. However, a lot of things get over looked because the guy responding doesn't have a clue what he's looking at or how to get at things.
There is a troubleshooting guide on the dealer's website for this Mt. Vernon AE stove. It is not available to the public as far as I know. Again, these mfrs. are very nervous about getting sued or the competition getting a leg up on them. Sometimes, this leaves the homeowner stuck in the middle.

I'm doing what little I can to improve this situation not just with this mfr. but across the board. With shrinking margins and rock bottom sales for the new construction channel, there is some major realignment in the market, esp. at the top.

[sysint]

H-man, at least there is some movement for education. If Quadra Fire management had any brains whatsoever, they would be shipping free stoves to any professional training center begging those facilities to train people with them.

I own a QF product. I was shocked at the lack of information. Honestly, I couldn't have the dealer install the product after interviewing him. Plus, they didn't even provide pellet service (how serious were they you have to ask). After digging into the machine it is rather basic (which is probably good) and basically can work. However, compare it to something like a Froeling (or other European manufacturers) and QF is merely trash by comparison.

It doesn't surprise me that QF and others don't have detailed data. My guess is they actually DON'T know and DON'T care. I also wouldn't doubt they don't have a plan for parts and types and change their minds with the wind.

About not having a troubleshooting guide with the unit? --- Every major manufacturer of heating equipment has full manuals delivered with the product which includes troubleshooting. There is no excuse not to have this information. If you cannot empower professionals and give them the ability to work on the equipment all you will ever have is po-dunk Bubbas running around peddling stoves. What a shame. QF should be embarrassed, but I suspect they don't have enough brainpower to figure out they should be.

Anyway, I wish you and the other 3 active professionals in the industry well.

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting suggestion that one reason so little information is available is that manufacturers are afraid of being sued.

How true is that?

[sysint]

Is that an issue more than normal? If you buy a ladder it has warnings on it. So does conventional heating/AC equipment, along with electric heaters you buy at the local big box.

What criteria makes a pellet stove any different from all of those products?

[jtp10181]

Just FYI there was an online 2 part training course for the Mt Vernon AE that had to completed by one person from each dealer or HHT would not ship them any more AE units as of Oct 1st 2008. I completed that for our store and it was pretty good, I put one of the things I learned to use today actually. I know I know its just online flash stuff but it is better than nothing. Like I said the course was pretty good and went through each error message one by one and explained what causes that error and how to troubleshoot it.

[sysint]

There are at least two HHT representatives that post on this forum. No, I'm not one of them. The transactions posted here do get sent up the line from time to time. ...Any HHT representatives shouldn't be hiding. It is a disingenuous position. I'll give your two reps you speak of some time to out themselves should they post again so they can think of being forthcoming like we expect and maintain in other areas of this forum. I think I've identified one already. It's one thing to have some product problems, it's another thing to slink around pretending you are somebody you are not. Very deceptive.

[hearthman]

Before you get out the cat-o-nine-tails and flog them, understand the position these corporate employees are in. They have not been commissioned by their employers as spokespersons. They are here incognito because they would get in trouble for using their identify and speaking for a company without their blessings, control and consent. They have elected to share information as they see fit. That means they use their discretion to advise you on matters they feel are important without crossing any lines. I think they are to be commended for their contributions here. BTW, we have reps. from other mfrs. who lurk here and post from time to time.

Sysint, you seem to be full of anger towards this one mfr. To a point, I agree with you. I do not think they should be crucified though. At least they are still in business and still responding to a degree. Do you know what happened to all CFM product warranties before the recent buyout? They were declared null and void. If you bought a Vt. Castings or Majestic product the day before the buyout, you got screwed. They are honoring warranties on those products sold the day after. HHT is honoring warranties regardless. I've seen them cover units that were well out of warranty simply because it was the right thing to do.

A little heat on them to keep them honest is good. Crucifixion is not. I do think your points about what information should be included with the manuals should be forwarded to them. I will talk with a certain top official from their company I work with through the trade assn.

[sysint]

If they are incognito they should simply not post against the company. I guess if they should be honest to us they should be honest to their employer.

I guess it's the whole corporate culture over there. Apparently the employees are in fear of their superiors but still feel it's important enough to post on the company anonymously to help right the wrongs of HHT. Again, it's the companies problem and their management group must seriously stink.

"Do you know what happened to all CFM product warranties before the recent buyout? They were declared null and void. If you bought a Vt. Castings or Majestic product the day before the buyout, you got screwed." I'd be more than happy to vilify the purchasers of CFM products. However, I think their should be regulations on screwing the customer.

How about this: Don't buy Magestic or Vermont Castings. The new company that bought them stinks because they aren't honoring previous warranties. Does their equipment catch fires like the Mt. Vernon from Quadra Fire and send soot into people's homes?

How many more do I go after before your industry is a pile of stinking manufacturers and contractors? Clean up your manufacturers and clean up your industry and nobody will have anything to complain about.

[JHadji]

Hearthman et.al - so these were relaunched earlier this year (July 2008)?

I'm really knocked out by what these should do. It's early in the season, but is there resolution & feedback to the performance/reliability problems?

I like them, but hesitating....

What's the other best option? Harmon?

[sysint]

It's all the same company now and you will be waiting 9 months to get an Accentra... which seems about the same amount of time it takes to get repair parts. The industry isn't professional yet...

[nowakowr]

I have some of the same problems others have had, but don't know the best way to resolve them. I have a newly installed MV AE insert, built in July 08, bought in August 08 at one retailer, installed in Sep 08 by a different retailer (selling retailer too far from my location so I had to get another one to install). I'm using premium hardwood pellets and have been using the hardwood pellet fuel selection. Problem 1: Almost every time the stove shuts down, it does an autoclean and then gets the the "Check Ashpan" error. I hit the retry button and the stove goes through the autoclean again. I usually have to do this 4-5 times before it clears. Some of the autoclean cycles last 10 minutes each--the mechanism goes back & forth 6-7 times before it either gives up & regenerates the message or finally clears the error. I have used the screwdriver method to clear any stuck pellets or clinkers, but it doesn't seem to have much effect. I sometimes just run he autoclean 6-7 times and it clears itself. Maybe there is just some small stuck piece of pellet or clinker that I don't see. But this happens multiple times a day. Any new ideas? I've reviewed the manual & see the recommended things they say. Maybe it is a bad switch. Problem 2: I seem to get a lot of soot or fine dust all over my home from this stove. The tray on which the logs sit get a thick coating of dust every time I use it--I vacuum it every day. Is this normal? I will be getting a CO2 detector this weekend to ensure I'm not having issues with CO2.

[jtp10181]

The dust in the stove is normal, its just fine pellet ash. You should not get black soot in the house, this could be from bad fuel or a bad installation or maybe a leak in the stove itself someplace.

For the check ashpan error I have encountered this once and tightened the prongs inside the harness for the autoclean sensor. I did like 10 test runs of the autoclean and it cycled once and stopped which is what it should do.

[hearthman]

Since this stove circulates air in the home, it will circulate any airborne dust particulates, too. It would take a qualified technician to inspect the stove and house then take samples to determine the source of the particulates and thus the remedy. Instead of a CO2 alarm, you should be getting a CO alarm and smoke detectors. FYI, you are exhaling CO2 right now. :D

While off the shelf CO alarms listed to UL 2034 are one step away from junk, they are, in some ways better than nothing and in others ways worse. Best to get an unlisted low level CO monitor such as the CO Experts or NCI 3000 from a Pro.

[sysint]

The dust in the stove is normal, its just fine pellet ash. You should not get black soot in the house, this could be from bad fuel or a bad installation or maybe a leak in the stove itself someplace.

For the check ashpan error I have encountered this once and tightened the prongs inside the harness for the autoclean sensor. I did like 10 test runs of the autoclean and it cycled once and stopped which is what it should do.Well JTP, if QF ever gets past the Home installed R&D on this unit and I move away from my much more reliable Castille (currently) I'm buying it from you so you might as well put the company name in your profile.

[slowpok]

Just found the forum while trying to find complaints about Quad, got there number from BBB website, talked to some one named April, she listened said that she would bump my issues up and call me back,(can't get the dealer to). but they never did. have had an email string and they claim they have a fix.

I have had the insert for little over a year.

wall unit replaced twice, board replaced once, thermocouple 3 times.
the stove has a mind of its own, and of course the convection fan is hitting the housing for the first 20 minutes of start-up.

I don't burn pellets, I burn corn at 13.5% moisture that is cleaned 3 times before it gets to the stove.

It has been going on for a long time, I don't think the dealer knows what they are doing, the last tech that was at my house in late April and witnessed all my problems has quit.

was waiting for them to get back to me and I finally went in and they said Quad had closed my ticket for lack of activity.

my patients is wearing thin, thought about submitting with the BBB and may still, will look at the link I found about UL.

Have been trying to find out whom owns the store that I bought it from but can't seem to find that out.

next step is to try and go in and get the manager and see if I can talk with this person and the tech at the same time and see where that git's me.

Quad will just not talk with me at all.

Thanks for the vent and the info that I have found here.

[jtp10181]

The convection blower does not run at start-up, not until the unit heats up. Do you mean the combustion blower? Have they replaced the combustion blower at all? I had one that was making a lot of noise and a swap out of the blower fixed it right up. Pretty easy part to swap out too. It also might just need some adjustment on the bolts its mounted with.

[DThom13]

I am currently waiting for a new Q/F Mt. Vernon AE to be delivered and wonder if I made the right choice after reading all the issues with these units?

Does anyone have any information on the new units and the gremlins that still exist? I have merely place an order and have not taken delivery, the downpayment that I have laid down is refundable.

It does not appear that the local dealer in my are is telling me the entire truth about these stoves?

Any new info that anyone could give me would be helpful in making a more informed purchase or not!

Thank from a newbe

[SeattlePioneer]

You have to ask, Dthom?


Personally, I would take no chances

[DThom13]

SeattlePioneer,

Yes, I do feel that I needed to ask the question. I have noticed a significant reduction in post over the past months and thought that HHT would have the issues corrected in the new production models.

I ordered the Mt. Vernon in June of 08 and was not aware of the issues. I asked the dealer about all the technoligy and any problems that they have been having. The dealer told me that they had some bugs when the stoves were first issued, but have had all the bugs worked out of them now. He assured me that the Mt. Vernon was by far the best multi fuel heating appliance on the market. The dealer that I am buying this stove through has been in buisness for 30 years and deals in only pellet, coal, wood space heating appliances. His reputation in the local buisness community is very good. On the other hand he is in the buisness to sell stoves!

I would still like additional information if any current is available on recent installs of Mt. Vernon AE units.

[slowpok]

It is the convection blower that is hitting the housing once it starts blowing, once the plastic housing expands it will stop.

When I first started looking at inserts, I was tempted to buy the Harmon, it was a little cheaper at the time, but the dealer said they were not releasing it until the winter and had the bugs worked out. The only other one I found that would start up on its own was the Quad. I jumped in because I got tired of cutting, splitting, and stacking 3 cords of wood a year, plus there was no one to feed it through out the day when no one was home. I have an all electric house with heat-pump. I only found out about the problems after I had ordered the insert, but the dealer assured me that the problems were worked out when I got mine, made on 10/0/07.

Went to the dealer and talked with the manager of the store and he went back and talked with the fireplace person. He ended up calling the rep in our area to set up a time for him and the tech to come out. we'll see if it happens, I'll post at that time.

I have chatted with people on another forum that just love the ones that they have and have not had any problems. I would have never known if I hadn't tried to burn corn, it seems to burn pellets just fine, but at
$300 a ton for pellets and $170 a ton for corn, and corn is much easier to handle for me. I may have gotten one of the last lemons who knows.

[jtp10181]

We have sold some more of the units this season and have not had any problems thus far.

[DThom13]

Pellets are in short supply in Northeast this year and are expensive at $300/ton (bought fuel oil yesterday for $2.59/gal). Corn is an option, but must get out of Canada and have not looked into corn as a sorce of fuel. Grains or barley is an altenative cheaper sorce in this neck of the woods. Has anyone tried to burn barley in the Mt. Vernon?

I am glad that a couple of post have positive results on the new Mt. Vernon stove. I cannot belive that HHT would continue to produce this stove if they were continuing to have all the issues with them.

I am going to visit my dealer today and discuss the long list of issues and he is going to really have to insure me and get in writting. If HHT has fixed the issues this would be a great heating appliance and if they have the dealer should not have any issues putting it in writting that the stove has been made safe and will work as advertised. If not I will be looking at other pellet stove option such as Enviro etc.

[DThom13]

We have sold some more of the units this season and have not had any problems thus far.

Are you a dealer and how many have you installed? I really like the options of the Mt. Vernon and ease of use for my wife, but if the stove is riddled with troubles then she will be fustrated with it when I am not at home and she wants it warmer! I also want to be able to trust the stove when I am away from home that it will work as advertised.

[sysint]

Maybe you should wait until Fr&#246;hling sends more models over here.

I'm personally waiting for the Turbomatic. They also have the P2. Email them about it. This is what I'd call a real pellet boiler. An actual professional HVAC guy can install it and pipe up a coil in your furnace with a storage tank and away you go.

Anything HHT offers is junk by comparison. Put a nice stone insert in that you can plug full of wood that stays warm a long time and leave the heavy lifting of pellet burning to a real company.

[jtp10181]

Are you a dealer and how many have you installed? I really like the options of the Mt. Vernon and ease of use for my wife, but if the stove is riddled with troubles then she will be fustrated with it when I am not at home and she wants it warmer! I also want to be able to trust the stove when I am away from home that it will work as advertised.

Somewhere close to 10 we have installed overall I think. We have sold 5 or so customers were going to install themselves as well. I would only recommend you go with the Mt Vernon if you have confidence in the dealers service staff. Maybe see if you can talk to their pellet tech and see if he is worth while. You may not need any service calls right away (under warranty) but you probably will eventually (they break down over time just like anything else). Even if something minor is wrong from the get-go a tech that knows nothing about the Mt Vernon AE will be totally lost and useless since the technology on it is much different than any other quadrafire stove.

[sysint]

JTP- Since this unit has history do you qualify the self-installers at all? Also, is HHT actually providing decent documentation on this unit for sequence, parts, operation and troubleshooting? (Like any HVAC manufacturer provides normally)

Further, do they provide training? If so is this training only for distributors or do they let in HVAC technicians also?

Which company in Madison? The big reseller?

[jtp10181]

Well tell every customer the benefit of having a pro install it, just like we would with any other fireplace. If they refuse and want to install it themselves so be it. If they have trouble we will still give them support and any needed service calls. If anything is the cause of an installation error they will be charged whereas someone who has us install it would not obviously. I cannot think of any self-installed AE units where people have called with problems. If any are having trouble they have not called us for support.

There is training that right now is available only to dealers who sell Quadrafire products, it has within pretty good documentation of sequencing and logic for the various sensors and error codes. Quadrafire required that one member from every dealer pass this training before they would sell them any more stoves.

No offence to anyone who works on both (because I know there are some who are experienced and good at both), but personally I would not touch a customers furnace, nor would I expect my furnace repair man to touch my fireplace. We sometimes have to go on calls where the fireplace wont work and they had their HVAC guy look at it while he was there working on the furnace. Usually the person either has walked away from it and not touched it, or royally messed it up worse than it was already.

I work at the only authorized Quad dealer in Madison.

[sysint]

These new induced draft stoves are more similar to what HVAC guys have been dealing with for years. Not a stretch to educate them.

My issue still remains that even though a HVAC unit is complex the HVAC manufacturer still includes all the proper information on the unit WITH the unit or available. The pellet stove manufacturer does not do this. Personally there should be a law against this or the distributor and techs should be required to have state licensing requirements for service.

You can't have a bunch of service morons running around and also not provide real documentation with the sale. Really shouldn't the manufacturer require ALL techs to get certified?

I think smart customers should not buy the stove unless it is supplied with complete operational documentation. Solves the issue you just described.

[jtp10181]

Yes the industry as a whole needs to provide better information about individual fireplaces and general troubleshooting tactics. There is no good "official" fireplace tech training that provides hands on stuff and in depth troubleshooting. A lot of the tools and techniques seems almost secretive. This gets brought up on this forum all the time.

The industry needs better and higher educated technicians with a higher desire to learn new things. I have taken college math and psychics classes which really helps a person to better understand how appliances work, and how to fix them. Without that knowledge people go through the motions but don't have a real understanding of what is going on, so anything more complicated than the standard trained techniques stumps them.

[sysint]

For the most part I don't like where they are sourcing these techs. I think selling fireplaces was one thing and then along came these electrically advanced stoves and there is a huge void to fill.

None of these manufacturers have been responsible enough to put proper measures in place. But, they reap what they sow a bit. This thread is proof of that.

Hearthman had some sort of affiliation that seemed to be going the right direction. However, it seems that the manufacturers are too stupid to give them stoves for their labs.

[DThom13]

Somewhere close to 10 we have installed overall I think. We have sold 5 or so customers were going to install themselves as well. I would only recommend you go with the Mt Vernon if you have confidence in the dealers service staff. Maybe see if you can talk to their pellet tech and see if he is worth while. You may not need any service calls right away (under warranty) but you probably will eventually (they break down over time just like anything else). Even if something minor is wrong from the get-go a tech that knows nothing about the Mt Vernon AE will be totally lost and useless since the technology on it is much different than any other quadrafire stove.

Thank you for your post,

I talked to the tech at the dealer yesterday about my concerns and what I have read about these stoves. His response was strait forward and he did not try and fill me full of bull. I use to work in the plumbing and heating industry and have attended tech schools on Toyotomi Oil Miser heaters etc. I have not worked in the industry for several years and have not kept up to speed on the newest technology, but have friends in the HVAC buisness and we talk.

This particular dealer has installed hundreds of the Mt. Vernon AE stove and admit that they have had some issues with some of the stoves. They are a man made appliance and stuff does happen! This dealership has been able to repair all of the issues to date with the stoves. None of their customers have faced the problems as some post on this thread. The Tech knows his stuff and this is their core buisness (unlike the corner furnature store). The dealer has been in buisness for over 30 years and that says something. The tech, (who is certified Quadra Fire Tech) took me thru and had an answer or showed me on a stove that had just come in that was sold all of the issues. Most of the problems that they have experienced has been the customer not learning how to operate this stove.

I am going to give the Mt. Vernon a try and see what happens. I know that some that have posted on this thread will think I am crazy. The dealer has addressed my concerns. They are going to bring my stove into their show room and run it for two or three weeks and if there are problems they can monitor them on site. This dealer can't keep one of these stove long enough to run one in the store, so why are people in my area of the country buying these if they are he nightmare that they appear to be? After they have a chance to run the stove we will then install it in my home. I think that they have gone to great lengths to make sure I will be satified with this stove in my home and I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. One other thing is this dealer stocks the parts that commonly fail on this stove so if something does go wrong you will not be waiting a month for replacment parts. If you want something out of the ordinary 2 weeks is the estimated time for delivery, which is a little long in todays standards.

[NHHAWKS]

Can anyone out there shed some light on the amount of times this stove should go through its autoclean cycle? Mine has been doing it about every 3 to four hours. 6 to 8 times in 24 hours is a lot. It also is shutting down to clean even when the temp in the room is 7 to 8 degrees below the set temp. My dad had one and his only does it about 2 times a day. Could something be wrong?

[bburton]

I purchased a Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 in Oct. 2008 when I moved. I had nothing but problems with it. Everything has been replaced in it. Over last weekend, it dumped pellets and filled up the pellet pot. The pellets were overflowing into the ash pan at the bottom. Somehow this all caught on fire and the entire thing was on fire and blackened everything in this stove. I have had a rep from the Fireplace Store in Billings, MT come out and check it out, replace this and that. Finally, I asked for a refund and they won't refund my money. This is a true LEMON pellet stove. The rep even told me last week that they had returned another one due to it being a lemon stove. The ower of the store won't refund my money but replace it with another stove. I don't want another stove due to the fire hazard.

Does anyone know if there is a lemon law on these to get your money refunded?

Thank you.

[jtp10181]

I purchased a Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 in Oct. 2008 when I moved. I had nothing but problems with it. Everything has been replaced in it. Over last weekend, it dumped pellets and filled up the pellet pot. The pellets were overflowing into the ash pan at the bottom. Somehow this all caught on fire and the entire thing was on fire and blackened everything in this stove. I have had a rep from the Fireplace Store in Billings, MT come out and check it out, replace this and that. Finally, I asked for a refund and they won't refund my money. This is a true LEMON pellet stove. The rep even told me last week that they had returned another one due to it being a lemon stove. The ower of the store won't refund my money but replace it with another stove. I don't want another stove due to the fire hazard.

Does anyone know if there is a lemon law on these to get your money refunded?

Thank you.

This thread is about a totally different stove than the one you have. Out of all the quad pellet stove in production right now the CB1200 has been around the longest. It could be considered one of the most reliable stoves in the industry.

FYI the pellets cannot "overflow into the ashpan" unless the firepot floor is left open since that is the only connection between the firebox and the ashpan. Unless one of the side cleanout traps was left open by mistake. Typically a pot overflow is caused by too much ash / clinkers in the pot that are not cleaned out over time.

[hearthman]

I recently diagnosed this problem with my In-laws Castile insert. Turns out the reset button stuck 'on'. I tapped on it, it popped back out and has been fine since. I've never had to replace a reset button so I assume it was an isolated event. Unfortunately, the way this button is wired in is not conducive to servicing. You cannot simply disconnect it to Ohm it out or jump it out as the case may be.

I agree w/ JTP on the the CB 1200 having very few problems I've heard of. IT sounds like your firepot gate was not fully closed. It is a fine line btw these gates fitting tight enough so burning pellets don't drop into the ash pan versus fitting loosely for easier operation. The operator needs to ensure the gas is fully closed after each dump.

Hearthman

[bburton]

We cleaned it daily. Vacuumed it out. Made sure the firepot was closed. No clinkers. We just really got a lemon stove. Even the rep from the store said so. He had one other one that they had to send back to the manufacturer. Thanks for your input. I know for a fact the firepot was closed. I vacuum the entire area out and put a tool in the firepot to make sure the holes are open and the firepot is closed. Thanks anyway.

[paulex7920]

I also have a Quadra fire mt vernon stove, actually it is an insert. My house filled with smoke the other night and I noticed the circuit breaker in my house panel had tripped. I pulled apart the stove today and vacuumed out the combustion/convection blowers. I clean the baffles faithfully. Now, I see a red light flashing inside of the control panel of the stove. There are two steady green lights on top then a steady red light below those two and then the flashing light below the steady red light and kind of "inside" the panel. any ideas?

[bburton]

Bad control panel. They replaced mine twice. Still had problems. I went through two months of problems with my stove. I followed the book to the letter on maintaining it. It finally had a bad fire in the ashpan. Everything in this stove was replaced and replaced. I got fed up and worried about a house fire. The men at the Fireplace Store came and picked my stove up. They told me that they had just returned another stove exactly like mine due to same problems. They were both lemons and went back to the factory. I replaced mine with the Sante Fe model which I love and having no problems with. Hope you get things figured out. I get real tired of people posting that I wasn't cleaning it enough or properly. I was anal about cleaning and maintain my stove daily.

[jtp10181]

I also have a Quadra fire mt vernon stove, actually it is an insert. My house filled with smoke the other night and I noticed the circuit breaker in my house panel had tripped. I pulled apart the stove today and vacuumed out the combustion/convection blowers. I clean the baffles faithfully. Now, I see a red light flashing inside of the control panel of the stove. There are two steady green lights on top then a steady red light below those two and then the flashing light below the steady red light and kind of "inside" the panel. any ideas?

It is normal for the control board to flash red on the AE unit. Not sure what would have tripped the breaker? Do you have a lot of other things on the same circuit? Computers? Mini-Fridge? Its possible some other things were drawing a load when the stove went to ignite and combined it was over 15amps tripping the breaker.

[paulex7920]

Just found out that my mt. vernon insert is not an AE model. I bought it new 10/06 and was told yesterday that the latest and greatest were not mfg. until 07. figures, This flashing red light I'm told is the unit calling for heat? Ok, so I cleaned the stove out spotless, and power it back up. wifey see's a flash by the control panel and thenthe breaker trips in my house panel. This is a dedicated breaker B.T.W. Dead short somewhere I'd say in the stove.

[jtp10181]

In a standard mt vernon unit (non-AE) there should not be a flashing red light. There are two red lights on that unit. One would be the call for heat light which I belive is on the back of the stove, the other is a status light inside the control box. I am guessing the flashing is from in the control box and must be an error light, but I am not sure what it means exactly.

If you turn the stat down so its not calling for heat does it still throw the breaker?

[paulex7920]

Yes, I disconnected the battery back-up and plugged the unit back in. Once I turned the T-stat back on, the breaker tripped along with a flash at the control panel? enough to scare the bejesus out of the wife. I have a tech from the dealer coming out on Friday armed to the teeth with wiring harness, blowers, etc. etc. Through process of elimination I gather, They will hopefully fix the damn thing. interesting to note is that lately, (since Nov.-Dec.) I noticed the glass seems to get black rather quickly almost daily! Once a month I'm pulling the baffle plate out and vacuuming the whole stove out. Also, weekly I clean out the exhaust pipe which is only 4' long. I pulled the blower housing apart yesterday and inspected that and there was no blockage there as well. Combustion air problem?

:confused:
In a standard mt vernon unit (non-AE) there should not be a flashing red light. There are two red lights on that unit. One would be the call for heat light which I belive is on the back of the stove, the other is a status light inside the control box. I am guessing the flashing is from in the control box and must be an error light, but I am not sure what it means exactly.

If you turn the stat down so its not calling for heat does it still throw the breaker?

[jtp10181]

if you have a battery backup cord you plug into the unit and hook right to a battery you have an AE unit. Would be easier to help if you actually knew what insert you had. If you are just using a power inverter or something (and dont have an AE unit), then the first place I would look for a problem is the ignitor. I'm sure the tech you have coming will check that, so good luck.

[Brookskh]

The stove has worked well, HOWEVER, I cannot get service. The dealer refers me to one person only who has told me himself that he works half a year and travels the other half. I have been trying to get service now for the other half of a service call that began over a year ago. I have had to work on it myself because I have been stood up over 12 times. I reported this to the Mt. Vernon folks and the lady who took the information would not tell me when someone would contact me or who the regional rep was. She said she did not know the name of the CEO or Director of Marketing. No other store dealer will help me since I did not buy this stove at their store. There is a terrible shortage of people who can work on these here in Georgia. After a 3 week delay, Mr. Vernon apparently contacted this service person directly, he called me, reemed me out for calling the factory and hung up on me. What an experience! In addition, I bought 3 tons of pellets at once because I was told by two dealers that there would only be one load of pellets to Georgia this year. I had problems last year as well. My suggestion is to make sure you can get service and pellets. I am very discouraged and feel between a rock and a hard place. I don't think this guy is emotionally stable, the people who own the store where I bought the stove don't seem to care, and Mt. Vernon will not contact me directly. Suggestions anyone? I have called every dealer listed for 100 miles. Brookskh

Put your email address in your profile, Thank you.

[jtp10181]

Call the factory again and make sure they log everything in off your serial number. Tell them about the bad service you have received from the other person and demand they find someone else to service it. Where is the dealer you bought it from? Do they not have any service people? What did all these other dealers say? Are they Quad dealers and wont help? Maybe find your nearest and most promising sounding dealer and suggest Quad tell them to work on it.

[sysint]

The stove has worked well, HOWEVER, I cannot get service. ...I am very discouraged and feel between a rock and a hard place. I don't think this guy is emotionally stable, the people who own the store where I bought the stove don't seem to care, and Mt. Vernon will not contact me directly. Suggestions anyone? I have called every dealer listed for 100 miles. Brookskh I'd say your only recourse is calling the factory. Quadrafire seems to have a solid history of unqualified dealers. So much so that any other store won't stand behind a Quadrafire product they didn't sell. Personally, I find this garbage. If you sell it, you support it. PERIOD. Why Quadrafire allows this is totally beyond me. Significantly ridiculous.

Here is what you need to do: WRITE A CERTIFIED LETTER TO QUADRAFIRE. Call and ask to whom to address it to and then require them also to give you mailing for their (apparently completely incompetent) CEO. Send a cc to him.

Make sure you outline your service and response from that jerk supplier. Further, list each of the other dealers that refuse to service your unit.

Make a sentence in there that kindly asks for a quick response to your situation.

If this company has any brains they contact you quickly with the solution. If they are stupid (still a high probability) then they ignore you. Wait no more than a month and send a follow up letter certified. If still no response, contact a local attorney to send a letter after investigating the company responsibility and policies. At that time also make sure you have him report all these losers to the BBB. Possibly also contact the local TV station. They love stuff like this.... incompetent dealers and stupid companies make for good TV. Quadrafire seems so stupid that news reporters and attorneys seem the only thing that gets them off their chairs.

I can tell you I'm fed up with this company man-handling honest purchasers, giving them the run around and screwing them over. Time to turn the tables on these losers.

FYI: Please read the rules and remove your personal email from the post and insert it in your profile.

EDIT: I think what this industry has is about 5 good techs, one of which is retired in Seattle... and posts on a message board. Those remaining 4 techs work for about 2 companies, one of those guys is definitely located in Wisconsin and the other Certified Fire Place Inspector I think is from the east coast. So, if you live anywhere else, service isn't going to be good unless you find those other two techs...

[haz2beblue]

Glad my wife found this forum.....at least others are feeling my same pain about my Mt. Vernon AE unit! I've had to replace (at my own cost): The firepot TC - I'm sure that this was a design flaw simply b/c the new one I got was WAY bigger and meatier (assuming so it didn't burn out so quick); The circuit board - I broke the TC lead into the board, couldn't solder it; The heat exchanger baffle is cracked and bowed - well within the 5 year warranty on that luckily; And now perhaps the combustion blower - see question below.

New issue: I need to replace my gasket around the combustion blower. Thought I could use just some standard, high-heat rubber material about the same thickness as the fiberglass stuff they use. But now, my comb blower is making an AWFUL clanking sound. Anyone had this issue yet? Do I absolutely need their gasket to make the placement of the blower fan in the unit perfect so that it doesn't space against the back or front of the blower unit?

As for service, well, it's been really tough. I live in North Carolina, so these types of stoves aren't so common down here. So, basically, I know twice as much as my service tech. My biggest issue is that I can't get through to Quadrfire themselves to ask questions; they just say to bring out a serviceman. All well and good, but to spend $120/hour to have someone come out and simply get through to the techs at Quadrafire and get the questions answered that I myself could have asked and fixed, that's a bit disconcerning.

[jtp10181]

If you order a new comb blower gasket from your dealer it will be a red silicone gasket now, instead of the fiberglass one. This should last quite a long time. I would recommend doing that and stop using the stove while the blower is making noise in case it is being damaged.

[haz2beblue]

Turns out Quadrafire owned up to both the comb blower and baffle issues. Both covered under warranty. At least something finally went the way I needed it to, besides the fact that I now will waste $$$ on running my heatpump for 2 weeks.

[ScottQuad]

Okay, it's about time for someone to say something positive. Then again, if you're not having problems, you're probably not going to go online and search for things right? I have to believe you guys are the vocal minority.

I live in Northern Vermont. I heat my house exclusively with this stove and have since November 2007 when I installed it myself in my fireplace opening.
It has burned 5 tons of wood pellets a year, except for last year when it used only 4 tons. I guess it was a warm winter. My home is 1900 sq. ft. not including basement. I have used all brands of pellets I have come across that were cheap. Only one brand, Pennington, did not work well. The rest have worked fine.

Last week my Quadra-Fire AE Fireplace insert stove had the vacuum sw error code for the first time. I googled it and found all you people. I must say, none of you were of any help. Lot's of complaining but no solutions.
I called the dealer I purchased it from. He was helpful and said to clean the stove and check the vacuum switch.
I did not clean the stainless flue pipe last summer (I've only cleaned it twice now, including this weekend) so I thought that would be a good idea. I did that and also took the stove out of the fireplace and did a complete cleaning of parts, removed the firepot, cleaning system, blower and exhaust blower, for cleaning. Almost immediately though, I found the problem. The vacuum switch is mounted in a steel box which houses a baffle system. The switch was glued into position with some kind of white glue which had deteriorated, cracked and fallen apart. The switch was loose and fell out of the steel baffle box. I used 500 degree temp silicone and reset the switch. That was two days ago and my stove is has been working flawlessly ever since.

I usually clean my stove once a week, on Sunday. I remove the baffle, vacuum and scrape the firepot with the scraping tool that came with the stove or my leatherman and wash the glass. That is about it. I think I've paid for this stove sometime last winter, through energy savings. I used to burn about 1000 gallons of oil a year. Now I only burn enough oil for hot water, about 170 gallons a year.

Honestly, I don't understand all the problems everyone here is having. Someone mentioned that the Froeling is a much better built product. Well, if you're willing to spend 15k I suppose it should be. They still recommend a back up heating system so that pretty much kills that product in my book. From the work I've done on my stove, it seems pretty straight forward to me. It looks nice because it's one of the few models with a cast iron front and it heats. I'm a Quadrafire owner. All my immediate family also own pellet stoves. They all own cheap models and they got what they paid for. My unit is the best of them all and puts out twice the heat. I'm happy with my purchase and would do it again.

[jtp10181]

Good to hear. Just FYI if you do need to replace the VAC switch they use a fully molded plastic switch now which will not have the problems yours had.

[Sruments]

I have a tech from H&H coming this week. I have been having problems with smoke for three years. Have you found any resolution ?

[darthvader]

Where and when are you getting smoke? also do you have a Mt. Vernon AE? Insert or freestanding? As a general rule most smoke problems occur from improper installation of venting.

The best way to find a leak is to do a start up with a bright flashlight ready and shine the light along the length of the venting, you can usually find where its leaking.

Another less common smoke issue occurs when unburned pellets are outside the firebox somewhere. Pull the ash pan out remove all unburned pellets from under the burnpot. Search around the area for any places pellets might be.

PS I did not read any of the older posts, they may have gone over some of these and other problems.

[ashtree]

Just going through old posts and a couple thoughts:

its cool that you guys try to help the customers on the site, many of the Mfr. have facebooks now and its pretty funny because you have customers like the originator of this post with clear gripes of operation and on their facebook pages customers just let the Mfr/dealers have it and they have to eat it and or rectify it publicly and openly just some fun reads to say the least.

Just starting out I am starting to realize poor customer service is a big issue as with all other industries.

In my area majority of the customers have package units and don't solely rely on the pellets stoves/inserts/freestanding for heat.

I ran across a small percentage that do so but understand the wave will be coming this season.

I spent over an hour troubleshooting a pellet insert today because the auger motor would skip at times (maybe gear chipped a tooth), initially it would throw pellets then on the next light wouldn't then constant for the next 1/2 hour or so.

direct lined the motor, everything ran accordingly stood there and fired it up and it ran great but the complaint was that it just wouldn't drop pellets. Showed the customer that it was operating properly but just had the feeling the damn thing would act up as I walked out the door.

I am fairly new to the industry and testing motors/switches should be a cinch, but having that day in day out technical experience from trouble shooting and actually seeing faulty auger motors/models over and over instinctually knowing, is something I haven't attained and probably won't until I have many seasons under the belt.

To the originator poster, thanks for showing me what not to do when I come across a repeated constant problem unit. I will educate the customer and keep then on page until the issues resolved and fixed. I try to keep the customer involved with much that I do to give them a sense that we are all on the same team.

It seems alot of problems too would be averted if more dealers sold and installed and serviced their equipment and I also understand that some customers are too cheap to allow that to happen.