mrluecke
11-06-2006, 09:16 PM
My post is concerning needing a new furnace and having a hard time wading through all the contradictory/mis-information both online and with many of my local HVAC contractors. My saving grace is you guys and this website, as this seems to be the very best source for quality information, thank you in advance for the help.
A brief background to set the stage; I live in the Northeast Ohio area and have just decided to add central air conditioning to our house this fall. Our house is @ 2700 square feet, was built in late 60’s and is a typical 2 story colonial house for that era, we have a wooded lot and our house is mostly shaded for most of the day in the summer so adding AC was not an extremely urgent matter for us but we finally have it and are anxious for next summer. Because we anticipate using our AC sparingly and historically most summers we haven’t missed not having it much (maybe a week or 2 in the summer), we settled on a Goodman 3 ton 13 seer unit mostly for economy and the fact that a close family friend who is a licensed contractor was able to give us additional discount on it.
The heart of this post and the start of my problem is that when my contractor had the top ductwork off my furnace to install the A-coil we noticed there were 5 or 6 very distinct “hairline” cracks around the “dimples” of my Carrier Weathermaker 8000 furnace which is only 9 yrs old. I was considering changing out the furnace anyway because I plan on being in the house for another 15-30 yrs anyway and am pretty sure I can pay a new furnace off in that time and will be more comfortable for the investment and trouble. The original installer of the Carrier was less than easy to work with (I think upset he wasn’t the guy installing the new AC) and referred me to contact Carrier myself to check into the warranty. Carrier was very pleasant to deal with and said they would honor the 19 yr warranty on the heat exchanger I would just have to pay for the labor which is very understandable. I know we are not allowed to talk price but the labor quote was very high, enough that I felt it was time to look into purchasing a new Furnace instead of replacing the exchanger on my 80% single stage furnace. The original installer seemed to think that the cracked heat exchanger was suspect, saying maybe it was not cracked and that for a small fee he would come out in 3 weeks to see if it really was cracked (he claims he can’t make it before 3 weeks, my wife is freaking out does not want anybody to die of CO poisoning – yes we have the detectors). I’m not proclaiming to be any kind of expert on HVAC equipment buy I feel I have a very solid mechanical aptitude and if I see obvious hairline cracks on a heat exchanger, even if the exchanger is not leaking now chances are it probably won’t be too long before it opens up and leaks through.
I have researched the heck out of furnaces much with the help of this website and think I finally have my decision narrowed down to two choices but have several questions I would like your input on;
1) Am I making a major mistake not electing to pay the original installer a fee to come out and tell me the heat exchanger on my Carrier is indeed cracked? I have 100% faith in the licensed contractor who was installing my AC unit, additionally I saw and felt the cracks with my own eyes and fingers although small (maybe 1-1/2 inches long each) they are definitely there. The original furnace installer said he has seen before where heat exchangers look cracked but actually are just fine, personally I think he is just trying to get some face time with me to try and push me into letting him supply the new furnace? I am okay with buying a newer more efficient unit at this point and don’t really want that guy in my house after the way he treated me today on the phone. I just want to make sure I’m not doing something really stupid by not paying somebody else to tell me the exchanger is cracked?
2) Unlike our AC, I have decided we use our furnace very frequently in Northeast Ohio and it is worth shelling out the extra money now to buy the top of the line American Standard or Amana 2 stage variable speed furnace. My thought here is that the variable speed will provide the most comfort and will possibly help me disperse the heat from my wood burning fire place stove insert better than the multi speed would. I would really like to utilize the heat from my wood burning insert as much as possible, is my logic correct going with the variable speed?
3) Probably my biggest dilemma is choosing between American Standard and Amana, my choice is between these two because they are the best my contractor offers, I’m interested in the Rheem people are talking about, however this is not an option with my Contractor and I’m sure I can’t get it for near the price I’m getting the Amana or American Standard for. On paper I like the warranty of the Amana furnace better and the fact that Amana uses both primary and secondary stainless steel tubular exchangers, I feel the furnace replacement warranty speaks volumes about Amana’s confidence in their exchangers. On the other hand I like the reputation of the American Standard brand better, but I am very nervous because in my eyes American Standard’s primary heat exchanger is very similar to the aluminized steel stamped “clam-shell” design that just failed on my “good reputation” Carrier furnace and it seems like the labor bill to replace the under warranty exchanger took away the option to fix, I do not want to be in this position ever again. The American Standard is slightly more expensive than the Amana but I am going to say negligible in my case the price difference would not sway me either way. Am I missing something does the American Standard’s 90 2 stage variable speed furnace have some capabilities in terms of operating logistics or features that set it apart from the comparable Amana? I understand the blower motors are expensive on both these furnaces to repair, does one use a significantly superior blower than the other or are they comparable? Anything else I’m overlooking on my comparisons? Which is the best way to go???????
4) My contactor says he thinks he can get the 2 stage Amana to work just fine on a single stage stat by tweaking in the timing of the stage 1 blower. Again I want to maximize the heat put off by my wood burning fireplace, from searching and reading this website I feel like the only way to go is with the 2 stage stat. Last year I put in programmable stats in the house and really like the savings they have provided thus far and I’m thinking programmable is still the way to go on a new 2 stage stat? I’ve seen many of you recommend the Honeywell’s Vision Pro TH8320, is this the best stat for me? My contractor mentioned that Honeywell is always in transition and feels like he has had better luck with White-Rodgers (he can get both), is this legitimate, is there a White-Rodgers stat you guys would recommend for my application? Can I get the furnace to run as efficiently on a single stage stat as I could on a 2 stage stat?
5) I am considering an air cleaner but have probably been most frustrated by this component in terms of contradictory and what I’ll assume is mis-information. I like the Aprilaire because I am confident it will be supported for a long time, whether that is right or wrong I don’t know but it gives me confidence. Anyway my wife is a neat freak and would like to dust less, additionally we both occasionally go through spells at the change of seasons where we both get a little stuffy and we are thinking a whole house filter would be beneficial and pay for itself over the next 15 years or so. I like the idea of the Aprilaire 5000 because of the stated efficiency, however more people than not have told me “those electronic air filters are nothing but trouble, they eat up a lot of electricity and need constant maintenance/cleaning to remain effective”. This seems polar opposite from what I’ve researched in that they do not eat up much electricity (maybe same as a 60 watt light bulb) and only need cleaned once per year at the filter change and will maintain their efficiency throughout the year even as they get dirty. I would settle for the Aprilaire 2200 but don’t mind paying the extra for the 5000 if it works as stated. What I don’t want to do is invest in some expensive filter that doesn’t work well and on top of that restricts airflow significantly enough that it is hard on the furnace and costs me a repair, especially if that repair is my expensive variable speed blower motor. My questions here are: does the Aprilaire 5000 work the way I have described, will either of the filters I’ve mentioned restrict airflow to the point that it is hard on the furnace, is there a better solution that gives excellent filtration without inducing significantly more stress on my new furnace? Is there something else I need to consider on this matter?
Thank you all so much in advance for your input, I really apologize for the long post, I have tried my best to wade through as much information as possible but all the contradictory information is very frustrating and near impossible for me to figure out on my own. This is a major investment for my family and I want to make sure I make the best decisions possible, you input is greatly appreciated!
A brief background to set the stage; I live in the Northeast Ohio area and have just decided to add central air conditioning to our house this fall. Our house is @ 2700 square feet, was built in late 60’s and is a typical 2 story colonial house for that era, we have a wooded lot and our house is mostly shaded for most of the day in the summer so adding AC was not an extremely urgent matter for us but we finally have it and are anxious for next summer. Because we anticipate using our AC sparingly and historically most summers we haven’t missed not having it much (maybe a week or 2 in the summer), we settled on a Goodman 3 ton 13 seer unit mostly for economy and the fact that a close family friend who is a licensed contractor was able to give us additional discount on it.
The heart of this post and the start of my problem is that when my contractor had the top ductwork off my furnace to install the A-coil we noticed there were 5 or 6 very distinct “hairline” cracks around the “dimples” of my Carrier Weathermaker 8000 furnace which is only 9 yrs old. I was considering changing out the furnace anyway because I plan on being in the house for another 15-30 yrs anyway and am pretty sure I can pay a new furnace off in that time and will be more comfortable for the investment and trouble. The original installer of the Carrier was less than easy to work with (I think upset he wasn’t the guy installing the new AC) and referred me to contact Carrier myself to check into the warranty. Carrier was very pleasant to deal with and said they would honor the 19 yr warranty on the heat exchanger I would just have to pay for the labor which is very understandable. I know we are not allowed to talk price but the labor quote was very high, enough that I felt it was time to look into purchasing a new Furnace instead of replacing the exchanger on my 80% single stage furnace. The original installer seemed to think that the cracked heat exchanger was suspect, saying maybe it was not cracked and that for a small fee he would come out in 3 weeks to see if it really was cracked (he claims he can’t make it before 3 weeks, my wife is freaking out does not want anybody to die of CO poisoning – yes we have the detectors). I’m not proclaiming to be any kind of expert on HVAC equipment buy I feel I have a very solid mechanical aptitude and if I see obvious hairline cracks on a heat exchanger, even if the exchanger is not leaking now chances are it probably won’t be too long before it opens up and leaks through.
I have researched the heck out of furnaces much with the help of this website and think I finally have my decision narrowed down to two choices but have several questions I would like your input on;
1) Am I making a major mistake not electing to pay the original installer a fee to come out and tell me the heat exchanger on my Carrier is indeed cracked? I have 100% faith in the licensed contractor who was installing my AC unit, additionally I saw and felt the cracks with my own eyes and fingers although small (maybe 1-1/2 inches long each) they are definitely there. The original furnace installer said he has seen before where heat exchangers look cracked but actually are just fine, personally I think he is just trying to get some face time with me to try and push me into letting him supply the new furnace? I am okay with buying a newer more efficient unit at this point and don’t really want that guy in my house after the way he treated me today on the phone. I just want to make sure I’m not doing something really stupid by not paying somebody else to tell me the exchanger is cracked?
2) Unlike our AC, I have decided we use our furnace very frequently in Northeast Ohio and it is worth shelling out the extra money now to buy the top of the line American Standard or Amana 2 stage variable speed furnace. My thought here is that the variable speed will provide the most comfort and will possibly help me disperse the heat from my wood burning fire place stove insert better than the multi speed would. I would really like to utilize the heat from my wood burning insert as much as possible, is my logic correct going with the variable speed?
3) Probably my biggest dilemma is choosing between American Standard and Amana, my choice is between these two because they are the best my contractor offers, I’m interested in the Rheem people are talking about, however this is not an option with my Contractor and I’m sure I can’t get it for near the price I’m getting the Amana or American Standard for. On paper I like the warranty of the Amana furnace better and the fact that Amana uses both primary and secondary stainless steel tubular exchangers, I feel the furnace replacement warranty speaks volumes about Amana’s confidence in their exchangers. On the other hand I like the reputation of the American Standard brand better, but I am very nervous because in my eyes American Standard’s primary heat exchanger is very similar to the aluminized steel stamped “clam-shell” design that just failed on my “good reputation” Carrier furnace and it seems like the labor bill to replace the under warranty exchanger took away the option to fix, I do not want to be in this position ever again. The American Standard is slightly more expensive than the Amana but I am going to say negligible in my case the price difference would not sway me either way. Am I missing something does the American Standard’s 90 2 stage variable speed furnace have some capabilities in terms of operating logistics or features that set it apart from the comparable Amana? I understand the blower motors are expensive on both these furnaces to repair, does one use a significantly superior blower than the other or are they comparable? Anything else I’m overlooking on my comparisons? Which is the best way to go???????
4) My contactor says he thinks he can get the 2 stage Amana to work just fine on a single stage stat by tweaking in the timing of the stage 1 blower. Again I want to maximize the heat put off by my wood burning fireplace, from searching and reading this website I feel like the only way to go is with the 2 stage stat. Last year I put in programmable stats in the house and really like the savings they have provided thus far and I’m thinking programmable is still the way to go on a new 2 stage stat? I’ve seen many of you recommend the Honeywell’s Vision Pro TH8320, is this the best stat for me? My contractor mentioned that Honeywell is always in transition and feels like he has had better luck with White-Rodgers (he can get both), is this legitimate, is there a White-Rodgers stat you guys would recommend for my application? Can I get the furnace to run as efficiently on a single stage stat as I could on a 2 stage stat?
5) I am considering an air cleaner but have probably been most frustrated by this component in terms of contradictory and what I’ll assume is mis-information. I like the Aprilaire because I am confident it will be supported for a long time, whether that is right or wrong I don’t know but it gives me confidence. Anyway my wife is a neat freak and would like to dust less, additionally we both occasionally go through spells at the change of seasons where we both get a little stuffy and we are thinking a whole house filter would be beneficial and pay for itself over the next 15 years or so. I like the idea of the Aprilaire 5000 because of the stated efficiency, however more people than not have told me “those electronic air filters are nothing but trouble, they eat up a lot of electricity and need constant maintenance/cleaning to remain effective”. This seems polar opposite from what I’ve researched in that they do not eat up much electricity (maybe same as a 60 watt light bulb) and only need cleaned once per year at the filter change and will maintain their efficiency throughout the year even as they get dirty. I would settle for the Aprilaire 2200 but don’t mind paying the extra for the 5000 if it works as stated. What I don’t want to do is invest in some expensive filter that doesn’t work well and on top of that restricts airflow significantly enough that it is hard on the furnace and costs me a repair, especially if that repair is my expensive variable speed blower motor. My questions here are: does the Aprilaire 5000 work the way I have described, will either of the filters I’ve mentioned restrict airflow to the point that it is hard on the furnace, is there a better solution that gives excellent filtration without inducing significantly more stress on my new furnace? Is there something else I need to consider on this matter?
Thank you all so much in advance for your input, I really apologize for the long post, I have tried my best to wade through as much information as possible but all the contradictory information is very frustrating and near impossible for me to figure out on my own. This is a major investment for my family and I want to make sure I make the best decisions possible, you input is greatly appreciated!