Best Online Source for HVAC??

[davefr]

All I want to do is replace my 25 yr old Carrier 4T HP and Evaporator coil. (no ducts changes, no control system changes, no add ons).

The local Carrier dealer quoted a 4 figure quote. (although it included a totally new air handler vs. just an evaporator).

I'm leaning to these guys program:

http://www.NoDIY.com

Buy the components direct and they make arrangements for a local contractor to perform the final steps such as soldering the connections and charge the system. It's 1/4 the price.

I have no concerns with my part of the task since I'm just replacing old components vs. a total redesign.

Has anyone used these guys program? Anyone recommend other online sources?

>>>Removed DIY link. Please don't link or post those type of sites here. Thanks.<<<


[Edited by jrbenny on 11-05-2006 at 11:00 PM]

[NormChris]

Do you bring your own steak to your favorate restaurant?

No quality HVAC contractor is going to install equipment you provide for them.

If you provide your own equipment, you are setting yourself up for a fall.

You are trying to save money but in the long run it will cost you more than if you simply went with a quality local contractor.

[Carnak]

This guy was on usenet with the same questions, think he is just looking for a fight

[davefr]

It's not full installation. I simply want to replace old 4T condenser with a new 4T condenser, old lineset with new lineset, and old A coil with new A coil.

The program is that homeowner does the install and tech does evac. and refrigerent charge. The company has co-op arrangements with at least 10 local contractors in my area.

Yes, I'd prefer one stop shopping but is it worth 4X the price???

[beachhvac]

Some things you may want to consider...... does your state or county require a mechanical / electrical permit, is the installer required to be licenced and do you need more than just a condensor, refrigerant piping and coil. Do you need a pad to set the new unit on, changes in electrical breakers (most newer more efficient units require less power), changes in condensate drain piping, duct transitions if the new coil is a differant shape than the old. And many more things to consider. There is a reason HVAC systems cost a lot of money. It's just not plug in and go. Be carefull as a DIY. I have gone on many jobs where a DIYer has gotten themselves into a lot of trouble not knowing what they are doing. It ended up costing them a lot more than if the hired an HVAC contractor to do it right the 1st time.

[r22coolguy]

Can I get an AMEN!

[davefr]

Beachhvac,
I agree with what your saying. However I don't need a new pad, control system changes, electrical upgrades or changes to my air handler. (new A coil dimensions are the same as old A coil dimesions and match the new proposed HP). The condensate drain is also in place. The control system is compatable with I have now. (I verified it)

I agree that substantive changes to ducting, capacity and/or overall configuration are outside of the scope of what I'm considering. However I'm only talking about replacing 3 components (old to new).

I also agree that this is beyond the scope of average Joe Homeowner. However I know my capabilities and where to draw the line and this seems well within it.

This is one option that I'm considering. I still have plans to get 2 more quotes but if they're like the first one then I'll likely implement this plan.

I fully understand that a contractor's margin needs to cover a whole lot more then just time and materials but I'm still in shock over why this job would be even close to 4 figures.

If I'm stepping into area too sensitive for meaningful discussion then I'll gladly go away and take it elsewhere. I'm just trying to make an informed decision. (not horror stories of how "Joe Six Packs" botched their DIY attempt).

[beachhvac]

You only picked out certain issues of my post that you have covered. Does your state or county require permits to replace this equipment. In my area they are required. Also, in my area and many others across the country, there are local codes which must be followed when installing system. I have replaced over 600 systems since I have been involved in residential replacements and can't remember any that were just replacing condensor, refrigerant piping and coil. I'm here to help, not to criticize. I'm just making sure your realize all which is involved. This is my profession, not my hobby.

[davefr]

Thanks Beachvac,
My county does not require permits for the work I describe.

Mechanical permits are required for:
- Changes to heating or cooling system that vents into a chimney
- Installation of fireplaces, stoves, etc
- Changes to gas piping between meter and appliance
- Installation of ventilating systems (exhausts and fans)

Electrical permits are required for:
- Installation or altering permanent wiring
- A permit is not required to replace an electrical device or to perform maint. on an existing installation.

[coordinatesales]

Originally posted by davefr
The company has co-op arrangements with at least 10 local contractors in my area.


Be sure to Dbl check those contractors. I personally, don't know of any reputable contractor that would do this. I checked one such site and found the name of a company that we had purchased several years ago still listed. We absolutely would NOT do such work so there is one name on the list that is no good. I've known of other contractors that found their name on such lists with no knowledge of it and also would not do that kind of work. Even if the site lists 10, I doubt you'll find that many actually willing to do so and the ones left, you may not want in your home.

[hivacer]

I will also advise you against this approach. You need to buy your equipment from a certified dealerand service company. If you buy the equipment you will have no parts or labor warranty, because manufacturers will not warranty Anything that is not professionaly installed, and that means from beginning to end.

So if the unit you buy is a lemon, you will be buying another one, and you will have to buy a new coil and lines too because they will be contaminated. They may say they offer a warranty but read the fine print and you will see the Manufacturers warranty is void if you dont buy the eqipment from a dealer.

And even if you get a contractor to do the charging and brazing they will not gaurantee their work because it is not their equipment, and they may even screw it up fo get more work out of you (not something I condone, but it happens). Buy the equipment from a real reputable dealer they will back the install and fix anything that goes wrong free of charge for up to 10 years. And things do go wrong ALL THE TIME, just like cars, alot of them are great machines, but they all have their problems.

[hvac hero]

If your looking for any of us contractors to encourage you to do this, then your wasting your time. Its a fool idea & your asking for trouble.

Quit being cheap & get it done right.

[davefr]

The supplier I referenced claims to provide the full warranty. However the devil is in the details and I do understand the additional risk factors. (maybe they provide the warranty in lieu of the manufacturer). Misrepresentation can be pretty serious stuff.

Let me ask another couple questions regarding hiring an HVAC contractor to do my entire job. Once again, all I want is my very old 4T HP replaced because it's probably living on borroed time. I know the A coil and line set should go with it.

1. Is there a lull time in the HVAC business? Heating system just began, they're pretty busy and maybe that's why I got a 4 figure quote. When are HVAC companies the most eager for business? Is Spring a good time? (ie after heating season but before summer)

2. Should I change my approach. I know what I want and it isn't the utlimate efficiency packages and all the fancy options. A single stage HP and one speed air handler has served me well. Should I ask for verbal quotes on installation of the components that I specify?

I wish we could talk price here so we have some basis for what's reasonable and customary but I will obviously abide by the forums rules.

[comfortdoc]

Find a contractor thst will do full heat loss and heat gain calculations. Then let them know that you want single speed HP with standard air handler. Have them select the equipment tht best suits your conditions. Let them evaluate the duxt system to be sure it is properly sized and in good condition.

A reputable contractor does not have times of the year that prices are lower. Might be differences in wait time for the work to get done though. Costs of doing business are fixed. Insurance, gas, permit fees, license fees, equipment price, workers comp, taxes etc etc etc do not go down because thei isn't weeks of work backed up.

[coordinatesales]

Some manufactures run different 'specials' at different times but most reputable contractors prices don't reflect any slow seasons. Partly becuase the best contractors have customers on maintanence agreements that fill in their slow times. I know Trane just ended the fall rebate promotion and frequently does a free furnace with purchase of a/c in late winter (at least they do in our area) but neither of those really help in this situation.

If you look around and find a contractor willing to run a heat load and do the job right, yes, you will pay more than the hack down the street charges but you will have a good system, with full warranties that works the way you expect it to. It will be worth the few extra dollars. Since the system will be working properly, you'll probably actually save $ in the long run on the operating costs.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

You keep mentioning 4 figure quote.

Do you think your complete job should cost less than $1000 for a 4 ton h/p condenser, lineset, and coil???

[davefr]

My mistake. 2 of the 3 configurations went past five figure amounts. The entry level system (ie Comfort) was very close to 5 figures.

I have a Lennox dealer comming over Thursday. (Nate certified and good reputation). We'll see what they can do.

[tinner73]

if you buy online you'll have ZERO warranty. regardless of what the website says. if you can actually find someone to hook it up and it's DOA (it happens)....then what? you still gonna pay? what will you do for equipment then. be careful.

[pulaskihvacr]

Nobody has asked.. How are you planning to remove the refrigerant from the old system? This REQUIRES EPA certification.

[chrisb22]

If you ARE planning to remove the refrigerant yourself I suggest obtaining the EPA certification online at EPAtest.com.

Good luck!

[comfortdoc]

Originally posted by chrisb22
If you ARE planning to remove the refrigerant yourself I suggest obtaining the EPA certification online at EPAtest.com.

Good luck!

Online is only Type I. You need Type II or Univ to handle refrigerants in a split AC system.

[davefr]

Originally posted by comfortdoc

Originally posted by chrisb22
If you ARE planning to remove the refrigerant yourself I suggest obtaining the EPA certification online at EPAtest.com.

Good luck!

Online is only Type I. You need Type II or Univ to handle refrigerants in a split AC system.


I've read the EPA 608 study manual. From everything I've read EPA 608 doesn't dictate who can work on HVAC systems.

EPA 608 dictates the proper handling and evacuating of refrigerant systems. It dictates what capacity system you can evacuate from and what types and quantities of refrigerants you can purchase.

If someone already has a tank of R22 on hand and is working on a split system I haven't read anything in EPA 608 that regulates that the addition of R22 can't be performed my non EPA 608 certified personel.

Like I said I've only read the manual for the online test but I haven't come across any restriction on working on systems.

If I'm wrong, flame away!!!

[browntigerus]

Been there, done that, ate a cow.

Nothing ever as simple as it looks.

[doc havoc]

In regards to the EPA. You should probably re-read it, as it clearly states that any person transfering refrigerant from one pressure vessel to another is required to be section 608 certified. The different levels of certification dictate what and how much you may transfer as well as what type of system you can work on.

[riderman]

Just my 1/2 cent advice, and my oppinion:

For a one for one replacement, you can purchase this stuff off the internet. As stated earlier, read the fine print. NO warrantee if installed by a humble HO. Ya gatta weigh the risk of your competence vrs a profesional performing the job.

One thing not to worry about, if they die hooking up the HP wiring to their respective disconnect's, aint your wifes problem.......)))

A co worker bought his Goodman heat pump equipment from a internet site. He placed all associated equipment in it's proper place. 90% of the listed pro's from the their site for our area would not perform work on a HO installed unit. One did, charged him BIG bucks to solder 4 joints, pull a vacume, open the valve and let err rip.

I dont blame the contractor at all. He has bills to pay, people to pay.

For a few bucks more, VERY few bucks, he could of had this unit installed with a warrantee.

NO **** HERE, this is my boss. His NEW HP "DIED" several months ago during a thunderstorm. Over the phone I diagnosed it as the circuit board in the AH. (LOOOONNG Story) The internet company would not pay for the part, because a pro didnt diagnose the problem. He replaced the part(purchased off the internet)and his unit worked fine. GREAT, look at the money I saved, he say's to me.

PS My Boss's AH blower motor quit blowing Monday. He called the "internet" company. They told him, call company "??" and have them verify said motor is REALLY bad, They will replace the motor, if defective, not the service call charge. I can only wish the service call is about 200 times the blower motor cost, if that's the "real" problem..:)))

HE HE

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by davefr
My mistake. 2 of the 3 configurations went past five figure amounts.

___ > Five figures
___. > $ 99,999
I guess you ain't too 'popular' around town. !






L.O.L.

[davefr]

Originally posted by riderman
Just my 1/2 cent advice, and my oppinion:


For a few bucks more, VERY few bucks, he could of had this unit installed with a warrantee.


HE HE

In my case the "very few bucks" is about 4-5X the equipment cost. If I wanted to I could buy double the equipment (in case of DOA) and pay a tech "Big Bucks" for the couple hours to braze, evac., open valves, and add R22 to compensate for the line set differences and still be multiple $1000's ahead.

Yes, I will re-read EPA608. The online study pertains to evacuation procedures and purchase. I didn't see any restriction pertaining to "adding" refrigerant to a system. Your probably right. The online guide probably doesn't cover the entire 608.

[lonnirat]

So you assumed the EPA regulated the sale of refrigerant but would not restrict you from adding it to the system? Yes, I believe you.

[tinknocker service tech]

I think you have been inturpiting the rules a little to your favor. You must be certified to reclaim and to work with cfc and hcfc. This is fact and if you were to be caught working or disconnecting a unit with out this cert you can be fined.

if the rules were as you have stated then why would epa certifacation be need and required.

as far as doing it your self what ever you decide
we are not alowed to help you with any problems you mey incounter but i can tell you this

replacing a heatpump isnt always as easy at it would seem and you might be getting in way over your head with no way out

[davefr]

Originally posted by tinknocker service tech
I think you have been inturpiting the rules a little to your favor. You must be certified to reclaim and to work with cfc and hcfc. This is fact and if you were to be caught working or disconnecting a unit with out this cert you can be fined.

if the rules were as you have stated then why would epa certifacation be need and required.

as far as doing it your self what ever you decide
we are not alowed to help you with any problems you mey incounter but i can tell you this

replacing a heatpump isnt always as easy at it would seem and you might be getting in way over your head with no way out


You're right. I went straight to EPA and pulled this up. It would appear that installing a new R22 system requires EPA cert. if you're adding, evacuating or measuring charge. However if you're simply opening the valves using the specified 15' lineset you're OK unless you decide to measure the factory charge. (which I'm sure you'd want to do)

However for a R-410A system there are no certification requirements and you can do whatever you want except to vent refrigerant into the atmosphere.



EPA has established a technician certification program for persons ("technicians") who perform maintenance, service, repair, or disposal that could be reasonably expected to release refrigerants into the atmosphere. The definition of "technician" specifically includes and excludes certain activities as follows:

Included:

* attaching and detaching hoses and gauges to and from the appliance to measure pressure within the appliance;
* adding refrigerant to (for example "topping-off") or removing refrigerant from the appliance
* any other activity that violates the integrity of the MVAC-like appliances, and small appliances.

Technician Definition:
Any person who performs maintenance, service, or repair that could reasonably be expected to release class I (CFC) or class II (HCFC) substances from appliances, except for MVACs, into the atmosphere.

[RoBoTeq]

OK, I stayed away from this thread hoping it would just die, but it does not appear that the OP is a sensible or honest person.

Anything that you do to open a refrigeration system, including putting a gauge hose on the valve, requires CFC certification. Now that this subject has been opened up, I'll be willing to bet there are at least a dozen professional members of this forum just waiting to turn this one over to the EPA :D

There is no way in hell that an online purchase is going to be 1/4 the cost of a professional install, not unless there is something wrong with that equipment.

There is no way in hell any reputable contractor is going to "inspect" a DIY job and put his/her stamp of approval on it. There are just too many variables in the installation process that may not show up with a visible inspection.

The OP has already made up his mind before ever posting this thread, why are we feeding this troll? We, as professionals on this forum do not condone DIY direct purchases and installs and should not be continuing with a discussion that only serves to give someone with total disrespect for what we do for a living a platform to state his opinions on our trade and its practices.

As always, this is just my opinion.

[davefr]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
OK, I stayed away from this thread hoping it would just die, but it does not appear that the OP is a sensible or honest person.

The OP has already made up his mind before ever posting this thread, why are we feeding this troll? We, as professionals on this forum do not condone DIY direct purchases and installs and should not be continuing with a discussion that only serves to give someone with total disrespect for what we do for a living a platform to state his opinions on our trade and its practices.

As always, this is just my opinion.

Roboteq,
I absolutely resent you calling me dishonest and a troll. If you'd bother to actually read my posts I haven't made up my mind and I don't have disrespect for the HVAC profession. As I've stated before I think it's a great profession for someone that's honest and has a passion for being hands on in an ever changing technical field.

I'm simply trying to weigh the options in front of me for replacement of my own old air handler and heat pump. And yes, one of those options is online/DIY. It seems like mere mention of those two words cause all hell to break loose on this forum. I'm not asking "how" to do a DIY install, I simply asking for the top pareto of things that can go wrong and the implications.

I'm gathering as much data as I can to make up my mind up to and including EPA 608 implications, R22 vs R-410A, equipment installation manuals, equipment comparisons, contractor quotes, etc. And if I go the contractor route I'm trying to steer clear of the "minefield" of conmen and hacks which isn't easy. (my last 2 quotes clearly showed problems in this area such as "we'll just re-use your old lineset" or "do you want 3.5 or 4 Ton").

If forum rules permitted it I'd be glad to show you quotes showing the wide spread between component cost and full install.

Happy turkey day.

[rivethog]

davefr- Any questions by a HO pertaining to anything more than extremely minor "repairs" (changing filters,etc.) will only result in the poster being called every derogatory name in the book. The phrase "We're from the government, and we're here to help you" has it's counterpart on this site, "Don't question an HVAC quote regardless of how much it is, trust us, we know what we're doing.". A look at the HO discussion board highlights the fact that there are many HVAC "professionals" out there that DON'T know what they're doing. There are "pro's" on this site that "adjust" their pricing based on what they think the customer can afford. Most on this site ARE Pro's that DO know what they're doing. The "problem" is that most HO's aren't within these Pro's localities, and have to deal with their local "pro's".

I'll give odds that I'll get called a few choice names because of this post also. Big deal.

[hvaclover]

davefr
and river-thong

Why don't you criminals take your complaints else where?

I have never heard such disingenuous claims in my life.

You are interrupting EPA regs to suit your self.

I think you guys did time 'cause you sound like a bunch of "con-men " to me.

Maybe you two were cell mates. I don't know and I don't care but you are stinking up this site and the guys are getting a little short on patience.

When Robo chimes in you can bet your ticket is about to be punched.

If you Bob Villa and Dave Lennox wannabes need to show how intelligent you are start your web page and give all the free advice you want.

The fact you two HO loser/criminal/liars/deceiver/ self-deluded TROLLS are here on a Holiday shows how pathetic your lives must be. Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or something?

We congregate here because we love our industry and are working even today. What's your reason other than to stir the pot?

TROLLS LIARS and NUMB NUTS shove it your left ear.

[rivethog]

Originally posted by hvaclover

Why don't you criminals take your complaints else where?
I have never heard such disingenuous claims in my life.
You are interrupting (sic) EPA regs to suit your self.
I think you guys did time 'cause you sound like a bunch of "con-men " to me.
Maybe you two were cell mates. I don't know and I don't care but you are stinking up this site and the guys are getting a little short on patience.
The fact you two HO loser/criminal/liars/deceiver/ self-deluded TROLLS are here on a Holiday shows how pathetic your lives must be. Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or something?
TROLLS LIARS and NUMB NUTS shove it your left ear.
With "pro's" like this speaking for your profession, is it any wonder HO's have the opinions that they do?

Oh, by the way. YOU'RE on this site on a Holiday also. "Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or something?"

[hvaclover]

Originally posted by rivethog

Originally posted by hvaclover

Why don't you criminals take your complaints else where?
I have never heard such disingenuous claims in my life.
You are interrupting (sic) EPA regs to suit your self.
I think you guys did time 'cause you sound like a bunch of "con-men " to me.
Maybe you two were cell mates. I don't know and I don't care but you are stinking up this site and the guys are getting a little short on patience.
The fact you two HO loser/criminal/liars/deceiver/ self-deluded TROLLS are here on a Holiday shows how pathetic your lives must be. Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or something?
TROLLS LIARS and NUMB NUTS shove it your left ear.
With "pro's" like this speaking for your profession, is it any wonder HO's have the opinions that they do?

Oh, by the way. YOU'RE on this site on a Holiday also. "Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or
something?"

River-thong:D you are a real brain surgeon aint'cha?

Edited out the part of the post to make me look bad.

That's ok, your just livin' up to your own standards.

Read the name of the site. That should give you a clue as to why we HVAC guys are here...SO WE CAN ANSWER YOUR DIMITTED POSTS!
Besides you guys a great entertainment:D:D:D



Reel 'em in boys!!

[davefr]

Originally posted by hvaclover


Why don't you criminals take your complaints else where?

The fact you two HO loser/criminal/liars/deceiver/ self-deluded TROLLS are here on a Holiday shows how pathetic your lives must be. Whats the matter? Your wife got lock jaw or something?

TROLLS LIARS and NUMB NUTS shove it your left ear.

I seek out knowledge and information to make an informed HVAC decision and now I'm branded a "loser", "criminal", "liar", "deceiver", "troll" , "pathetic", "numb nuts" and my wife is called "lock jaw"!!

All this because of the possibility of one HO going the DIY route??

I think this level of paranoia speaks volumes for your professionalism!! I don't have to resort to any name calling. Your reply paints the picture quite well.

[hvaclover]

I said your wife has lock jaw. That's why you vent your fustrations here.

By the way, how was you T-day dinner?

I'm stuffed.

[davefr]

4 hrs to go. That's why I'm online. If I go upstairs I'll be handed a knive and a bag of spuds to peel.

[hvaclover]

Good.

Now go sit at the little kid's tabel and think about what you have done.

[tinknocker service tech]

hey happy bird day
thanks giving

well two service calls and peeling the spuds i am stuffed

it is a nasty day here in NJ and there is a real chill in the air even tho it isnt very cold just very damp the worst kind of cold

thinkg back this has been a good year since last thanksgiving and with this new job as of last april i think it will continue.

back to the subject

there are many reasons not to do diy with a heat pump
duct sizing, wire sizing, and most importantly equipment sizing. Even thinking i will just go with the same size can be very wrong. The type of equipment you use is also a factor. Are there techs in your earea that can repair the equipment. Epa is also a factor the rules are not up to inturpitation they are edged in stone. Only a EPAcertified tech can open a system. Installing gauges is opening a system.
instalation of the equipment is also very important because one mistake can cost you in electric bills or repairs
sure the equipment can be blamed for the costs but in most cases it is the way it was installed

refrigerant line size, metering devise, blower size and coil size, and heat strips size has to be taken into account when sizing a heat pump unit. Just because you think the equipment is a match doesnt always mean it is a match for a heat pump but it is for ac

you are walking into a very precise field and may luck out but in al realality most do not and are looking at a lot of major heart ache

spend it and have it done properly now or spend it later either way you will most likely spend it

[browntigerus]

Look davefr, that equipment sold for people who can diy.

Frankly I don't think any of them care about EPA license. EPA never had luck enforcing that anyway. There are plenty of unlicensed installers. A lot of servicing tech would have no clue were you bought the equipment. Could have been hvac hack striked again thing, or usaual when installer takes your money and never comes back.

Do hvac-calc, to make sure righ size is used. In fact buy it even if you have it installed by dealer.

Equipment sold by most sites, already priced above avg dealer price. Someone said pretty true thing, for not much more you can have it installed. IF price sounds high ask what is included. Make project smaller to reduce cost. Replace disconnect, wires, demo existing equipment.

I went to BestBuy today to buy BF plasma panel. Installation + mount was $950. 10x times the cost. So what, I joked and went home. Frys are willing to install same panel for $199. Full retail is for suckers.

[zzyzzx]

Seems to me that almost all the DIY places sell noly Goodman stuff. That should be reason to stay away from them. Anyway, if I were to do such a thing, I'd get as far as I could then call in a pro to do the srartup and final connections, and if they ask say that a previous contractor who will go unnamed did crap work and you want them to finish the job.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by zzyzzx
Anyway, if I were to do such a thing, I'd get as far as I could then call in a pro to do the startup and final connections, and if they ask say that a previous contractor who will go unnamed did crap work and you want them to finish the job.

zzyzzx =
as brainLESS as ANYone would expect a human to be!

[summit]

I need to get back into the surveillance business. What's the reward again, 10K?

[dan sw fl]

Quote from online seller XYZ:

"HVAC manufacturers appear to oppose consumer-direct purchases for several reasons.

First, they have a valid concern that consumers should not install HVAC equipment by themselves.
XYZ would like to reiterate this concern -- you really need to have a qualifed HVAC contractor install this equipment. This is one do-it-yourself project that could literally kill you if you do it wrong.

Second, some brands have found that the return rate is higher on products purchased online -- presumably because unqualified people have installed the product, and damaged the unit in the process."


D.I.Y., Get the Message yet !?

D on't I nstall Y ourselve !

[desto1]

you get what you pay for!!! i deal with these "cheapos" that want everything but dont want to pay for it.it is h.o like this guy that whine and cry about contractors ripping people off,when the plain truth is the h.o is usally the one who is their own enemy.like i said,they dont want to pay for quality and they expect a contractor to "polish a turd" for next to nothing.if your systen is old,you most likely will need some minor duct mods,i have not seen many old systems that have proper duct sizing that are up to todays standards.so spend the money you cheap a$$,and by the way,just to show you i do care,DONT BUY CARRIER! stay with lennox or trane.... good luck to you squeeker

[browntigerus]

Originally posted by summit
I need to get back into the surveillance business. What's the reward again, 10K?

Do you know of anyone who got paid?

[hvaclover]

Originally posted by desto1
you get what you pay for!!! i deal with these "cheapos" that want everything but dont want to pay for it.it is h.o like this guy that whine and cry about contractors ripping people off,when the plain truth is the h.o is usally the one who is their own enemy.like i said,they dont want to pay for quality and they expect a contractor to "polish a turd" for next to nothing.if your systen is old,you most likely will need some minor duct mods,i have not seen many old systems that have proper duct sizing that are up to todays standards.so spend the money you cheap a$$,and by the way,just to show you i do care,DONT BUY CARRIER! stay with lennox or trane.... good luck to you squeeker
^
^
^
^
^
Now that's what I'm talkin' about.

[RoBoTeq]

:D Well, at least this thread got to be humorous :D

Why oh why do people continue to come here showing their disrespect for the HVAC industry?

Why do people who do not respect the HVAC industry continue to post here when it is obvious that the professional members of this forum are only having fun playing with them?

I do admire hiding at the computer to keep from having to peel potatoes though.

[hvaclover]

Yeah, there are humorous aspects, but DIYs are out classed if they think they can go toe to toe with us.

I find ravings of the DIYs just as disruptive to the site as the person 'Who's name we can't mention" in another thread.

Would somebody please tell me why we let these jokers in?

Are we just feeding the DIYs to the sharks for entertainment value?

[RoBoTeq]

come on hvaclover; we are not feeding anyone to anything; they are voluntarily jumping into the pool :D

[hvaclover]

LOL.

[hvacr man]

davefr what do you do to put clothes on your back and food in your mouth??

[hvaclover]

Don't ask him.

We might not be able to post the answer.