View Full Version : A Mormon President
First of all let me clarify I have nothing against Mormons in general and they seem to be decent people who live by the tennants of their faith.
That said I would like to point out the glaring distinctions between the Mormon faith and Christianity.
And no Mormonism is not Chritianity.
Their "Jesus" and the Jesus from the gospels, the Jesus that I believe washed away the sins of man with his sacrifice are different people completely.
Although admittedly I am a little dark my beliefs are sincere.
The Mormons have been trying to mainstream their beliefs for some time by altering some of their fundamental principles and lately have kicked their campaign into high gear for obvious reasons.
Changing principles to appeal to a mainstream demographic flies in the face of the fundamental Christian principle that God is immutable.
Unchanging. Only mans interpretation is what changes as they for their own purpose redefine the original teachings of Christ.
I also believe as the Gospel tells me that man is not saved by works but by faith alone. Catholicism and Mormonism are big on works.
As if God has lowered a rope and its up to us to climb our way to Heaven through personal sacrifice.
Works in this context are in place for one reason. To further entrench believers into that particular faith. To captivate them and is the result of mans will, not Gods.
No we do not save the dead through Baptism nor do we Baptize the dead. Thats a Mormon tradition they dont like to mention.
Their temples are not for Christians but for select people who by works have proven themself worthy to enter.
I couldn't get 1 foot in the door of a Mormon Temple even though we are both "Christians".
No where in the new testament does it refer to Masonic ritualism and worshipping Masonic symbols. They are all over your typical Mormon temple.
More works as they struggle to become supperior, god like.
No Jesus is not my "brother" nor is Satan as the Mormons will tell you we are all Gods Children and that Satan and Jesus are brothers.
Not according to the Gospel. That being said obviously the Mormon religion does not believe in the Trinity.
There are numerous distinctions but just end on this. Romney wasn't my first choice and there is nothing, no ammount of Mormon commercials that can tie the truth to their cultish fundamentalism.
coolwhip
11-01-2012, 05:57 PM
Rather have a Mormon than a Muslim....at least the Mormon doesn't waste time praying to the East 5 times a day.
ar_hvac_man
11-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Funny, IMO anyway, how anyone can actually believe one organized religion is better than another.
jtrammel
11-01-2012, 06:29 PM
Jesus Christ is the ONLY thing that matters, the belief that he died on the cross for our sins and rose 3 days later is the only reason anyone can have eternal life. No religious works or activities will get you any closer to God. Our good deeds are like dirty menstrual rags to God, if He doesn't see Jesus standing with you on judgement day all He sees is sin.
Funny, IMO anyway, how anyone can actually believe one organized religion
is better than another.
Its a good thing I'm not part of a organized religion then.
"Religion" implies mans input for control. No man, pope, bishop, saint or angel controls me.
It's my choice alone to have a personal relationship with Christ.
And yes I agree Coolwhip. I would say Islam subjegates woman too.
ar_hvac_man
11-01-2012, 06:38 PM
I shouldnt have even commented. I get enough of the religious mumbo jumbo from my wife. I wish I could just let go of all reason and logic like she says to do and "JUST BELIEVE". Sorry, I cant. My mind doesnt work like that.
You and me both ar hvac man. I dont want to give the impression that Christians don't struggle with their faith.
We do, I do. I'm an avid reader, enjoy science, math, building electronic devices as a hobby...(note my avatar) and have a very logical mind.
I dont play well with others either, other Christians seem to think Im too "abrupt" and dark but that has nothing to do with my Faith.
There are things in this world that cannot be explained by science.
For instance how about Gravity ? Its universal, constant. How about the laws of thermal dynamics ?
Mathematical laws like Cayley Hamilton ?
The list goes on and on.
Physical and scientific laws that just exist.
The best we can do is to say they just are but when someone claims to belive or to have faith its considered impractical.
barbar
11-01-2012, 07:04 PM
Have you seen a female pope? So which religion subjegates women?
Have women always had the same voting rights as men since the USA inception?
Most of what you see around non western countries is related to culture not religion,
Did you know Mrs Mohammad, was the boss of a camel train!
Has the USA had a female president, What about Pakistan, have they had a female leader?
jtrammel
11-01-2012, 07:06 PM
The only logical explanation to the earth, this galaxy and the universe is that there is a creator. I have a personal relationship with The Creator and I know for a fact He is real and lives inside of me. It's not very logical to think that some explosion occurred and millions of years later here we are, from nothing. If that were possible I could take the ingredients for a cake put it in a bowl light a stick of dynamite and viola I have a cake.
barbar
11-01-2012, 07:12 PM
The only logical explanation to the earth, this galaxy and the universe is that there is a creator. I have a personal relationship with The Creator and I know for a fact He is real and lives inside of me. It's not very logical to think that some explosion occurred and millions of years later here we are, from nothing. If that were possible I could take the ingredients for a cake put it in a bowl light a stick of dynamite and viola I have a cake.
Where did the creator come from?
jtrammel
11-01-2012, 07:26 PM
He is, that's His answer. There are some things we will never know this side of eternity.
glennac
11-01-2012, 08:47 PM
Funny some on this thread hate Christianity so much that they prefer the religion of murder, hate and slavery because the Muslims also hate Christianity and Christians. You all should just go ahead and join the religion of the 7th Century and then you can belong to a group of extremists not unlike yourselves.
Gees. If you can't admit you see the difference then you must be like them completely brainwashed by your own hatred. Unbelievable. Thank you, thank you very much
barbar
11-01-2012, 09:34 PM
Funny some on this thread hate Christianity so much that they prefer the religion of murder, hate and slavery because the Muslims also hate Christianity and Christians. You all should just go ahead and join the religion of the 7th Century and then you can belong to a group of extremists not unlike yourselves.
Gees. If you can't admit you see the difference then you must be like them completely brainwashed by your own hatred. Unbelievable. Thank you, thank you very much
I presume that finger is pointing at me! Where do I mention hate of Christians or any other group of people. I gave some facts in response to six's comment about women. If want to dispute these as being incorrect, then prove me wrong.
Murder, hate, slavery, where are your facts over history that muslims are any worse or better than any other group of people. As a % of population how many muslims have slaves, then compare this with not so long ago, how many slaves were in the USA.
Why would i join a religion "full stop", A mans faith is between him and his god!
Again you continue to generalize about 1.4 billion people by the actions of a very very small minority.
Him without sin, cast the first stone!
printer2
11-01-2012, 09:41 PM
There are things in this world that cannot be explained by science.
For instance how about Gravity ?
It is the bending of space due to the mass of an object.
glennac
11-01-2012, 09:48 PM
Don't have the time for a full retalitory response but suffice it to say that almost every Muslim owns at least one slave his wife.
No barbar I did not mean only you. Thank you very much
barbar
11-01-2012, 10:07 PM
Don't have the time for a full retalitory response but suffice it to say that almost every Muslim owns at least one slave his wife.
No barbar I did not mean only you. Thank you very much
Damn, Glen and I thought I was special in your eyes!
The wife issue, I also once thought in a similar manor, but once indoors, just like most of use, we take the pants of and give it to the real boss!
Yes muslims and other non western cultures, do seem to a different approach to what we call normal, equally they say the same about us.
Do you open a door for a women "I do", , some feminists see this as disrespectful, hopefully what I am showing is that your perspective view, is only from a single vantage point. You move you see something different, which then changes how you saw the previous view.
On one point "muslims do not hate christians", "some mulims hate christians", as do "some christians hate muslims" and of course you have Robo who hates all equally. (I hope Robo does not mind a joke at his expense)
syndicated
11-01-2012, 10:20 PM
Funny some on this thread hate Christianity so much that they prefer the religion of murder, hate and slavery because the Muslims also hate Christianity and Christians. You all should just go ahead and join the religion of the 7th Century and then you can belong to a group of extremists not unlike yourselves.
Gees. If you can't admit you see the difference then you must be like them completely brainwashed by your own hatred. Unbelievable. Thank you, thank you very much
Glenn, are you entitled to your own opinion? Despite the fact that others may think you're wrong?
It is the bending of space due to the mass of an object.
It is the bending of " Space-Time" due to the mass of an object.
It is the bending of space due to the mass of an object.
Well its a bit more complicated than that scientifically but describing it doesn't speak to its source.
It and other universal laws just exist and most to our benefit.
You realize we have just the right amount of gravity on earth to hold on to our atsmosphere but not too much to overwhelm complex life forms.
Again, say what you want about Darwin and Creationism but Atheist seem to be satisfied, even scientist that these things "just exist".
syndicated
11-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Well its a bit more complicated than that scientifically but describing it doesn't speak to its source.
It and other universal laws just exist and most to our benefit.
You realize we have just the right amount of gravity on earth to hold on to our atsmosphere but not too much to overwhelm complex life forms.
Again, say what you want about Darwin and Creationism but Atheist seem to be satisfied, even scientist that these things "just exist".
That's not entirely correct.
The source of gravity has been postulated as a quantum particle called the boson. It's what gives matter it's mass. Any amount of mass, even a single electron will then exhibit gravity.
This theory is currently being experimented on at CERN.
As far as our planet goes, it is very close to perfect for what we need, however our neighbour Venus is very similar in mass and could have been identical in condition had it not been for its formation closer to the sun.
Considering the billions of stars out in the observable universe, the laws of probability dictate the chances of finding thousands of planets just like ours are very high. Just imagine what we can't see!
Now here's a question.
If alien life is ever discovered, what will organized, monotheistic religions have to say about it? How can they explain that? I'm trying to keep an open mind here, lets keep this rational.
To "Six"
Funny I should run across your post after just happening by chance to read this article today. Here's a short segment of what I read.
"Quote"
In the Q&A, a very articulate young Mormon man stood up, and they went back and forth quite a bit. The Mormon was insisting that Walter Martin misunderstood Mormonism on the atonement of Christ and Walter Martin simply would not give in. And they got almost into a shouting match and at a certain point the young man, with tears flowing down his face because Martin had been pretty rough on him, said, “I don’t care what you say, Dr. Martin. I believe that my sins have been forgiven by the atoning work of Jesus Christ on Calvary and nothing that you can say can change that conviction.” And Martin turned to the audience and said, “See how they lie?”
"End of Quote"
Have a nice day
Mark
printer2
11-01-2012, 11:49 PM
It is the bending of " Space-Time" due to the mass of an object.
Yes.
That's not entirely correct.
The source of gravity has been
postulated as a quantum particle called the boson. It's what gives matter it's mass. Any amount of mass, even a single electron will then exhibit gravity.
This theory is currently being experimented on at CERN.
As far as our planet goes, it is very close to perfect for what we need, however our neighbour Venus is very similar in mass and could have been identical in condition had it not been for its formation closer to the sun.
Considering the billions of stars out in the observable universe, the laws of probability dictate the chances of finding thousands of planets just like ours are very high. Just imagine what we can't see!
Now here's a question.
If alien life is ever discovered, what will organized, monotheistic religions have to say about it? How can they explain that? I'm trying to keep an open mind here, lets keep this rational.
Yes I'm familiar with particle physics and the work they're doing at the Hadron Collider.
The study of sub atomic particles and the harvesting of positrons is absolutley fascinating and will no doubt answer alot of our questions concerning the formation of our Universe.
What part of my previous comments concerning gravity were incorrect ?
If the work at CERN gives us the correct scientific definition of gravity then how will that speak to its origin ?
Its all just a roll of the dice ? That a near perfect world in a vast violent Universe exist just for us ?
I guess some of us will just have to wait and I'm speaking to those who have completely thrown aside scientific research in favor of a blanket belief that its all magic. I'm not one of those but it still has no effect on my faith personally.
My post about Earths gravitional pull being perfect should have been enough to illustrate the obvious distinctions between us and Venus.
As for Aliens I have no doubt their are micro Organisms or even complex forms of life some where out there.
But how is that relevant ?
Garretto.LaFantastic
11-02-2012, 10:57 AM
... Atheist seem to be satisfied, even scientist that these things "just exist".
Some of us don't have to know all the answers to be happy in life.
Its all just a roll of the dice ? That a near perfect world in a vast violent Universe exist just for us ?
Honestly if the earth was created for a life form it'd have to be fish or the dinos given both were here long before and in total much much longer than we have.
Of course, I don't care if Romney is Mormon. I still voted for him as the lesser of two evils... which is always going to be the case until we get away from the 2 party system. All my local elections I voted Libertarian if available. Republican if no Libertarian was running... Of course, I am a registered Libertarian.
I envy those that can just let things go unexplained.
I don't know if its genetic or the way I was brought up but I've always had a near obsession about learning.
Especially about the things that interest me.
Electronics, Aviation, History, economics, politics, etc I'm never satisfied.
But it seems just by honest objective observation that I'm not alone.
Its our nature and those who chose to take the easy road and rely on those who are motivated to keep pushing in areas that benefit everyone do come off to me being intellectually lazy.
You're a Libertarian ?
Well you and I would agree on some things Im sure.
To "SIX"
If you "really" had the desire and the inner tendencies to find out the truth about things, the "real truth" and not just some repeated bunch of b.s. Than the very first post that you used to start this conversation would have been quite different. Do your homework instead of just repeating what you see somewhere else.
energy star
11-02-2012, 12:48 PM
BAM!
To "SIX"
If you "really" had the desire and the inner tendencies to find out the tr
uth about things, the "real truth" and not just some repeated bunch of b.s. Than the very first post that you used to start this conversation would have been quite different. Do your homework instead of just repeating what you see somewhere else.
I easily stomp on liberals like you in debate forums because I do my "homework".
Your twisted world view and your blind allegiance towards the most incompetent president in our history shows you had to Google the word "homework" for its definition and correct spelling.
Now I encourage you to keep posting, to keep putting your foot in your mouth as you struggle to make ONE lucid argument for any of your positions.
Arguing from a point of desperation is really begging. Have some self respect
Makinhole
11-02-2012, 02:45 PM
What is stated about Mormon ism is inaccurate Mormons are Christians it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Good works are a way to emulate our Savior, Jesus Christ. If you are not a Mormon then you can not define mormonism. Would be like a white guy talking about racial supression.
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[QUOTE=energy star;14505131]BAM![/QUOTE
Amazing.
You think I'm "for" Obama.....
You've got that wrong.
You've just given me more ammo to back up what I just told you....."Do your homework".
I do have to hand it to you, you certainly are a great debater. Perhaps one could even if all you the "Master" bater. But just because you have the gift of gab, it doesn't make you right.
Well Said......
What is stated about Mormon ism is inaccurate Mormons are Christians it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Good works are a way to emulate our Savior, Jesus Christ. If you are not a Mormon then you can not define mormonism. Would be like a white guy talking about racial supression.
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Gib's Son
11-02-2012, 02:54 PM
WWould be like a white guy talking about racial supression.
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So, a white guy growing up in Long Beach CA. with a huge black population, going to a school that is 98% black, having to fight someone new nearly every week, would not understand racial suppression or discrimination? I respectfully disagree with your assertion sir, and bringing race into the discussion has nothing to do (or brings no value) with the OP.
exreo
11-02-2012, 02:54 PM
Have you seen a female pope? So which religion subjegates women?
Have women always had the same voting rights as men since the USA inception?
Most of what you see around non western countries is related to culture not religion,
Did you know Mrs Mohammad, was the boss of a camel train!
Has the USA had a female president, What about Pakistan, have they had a female leader?
barbar you reminded me of something about my one week visit to Melbourne, Australia. I was told that Aussie men treat their women like $hit. That's why Aussie girls loved us yanks--because we treated women so well. I wonder if it's the same situation with you Kiwi's?
That explains why you are so angry.
"CHILL" my friend. Junior high school was years ago. FORGET about it and live on.
So, a white guy growing up in Long Beach CA. with a huge black population, going to a school that is 98% black, having to fight someone new nearly every week, would not understand racial suppression or discrimination? I respectfully disagree with your assertion sir, and nothing to do with the OP.
Gib's Son
11-02-2012, 03:06 PM
That explains why you are so angry.
"CHILL" my friend. Junior high school was years ago. FORGET about it and live on.
Who said I'm angry? (Never been accused of that one...LOL) Who said it was me I was talking about? Your crystal ball and Tarot cards must be in need of replacement.
Makinhole
11-02-2012, 03:18 PM
That is right if you're not black you can comment how it is to be black if you're not a Mormon you can't say how it is to be a Mormon regardless of how you think you know you don't know. To infer that you do, is incorrect. Only Jesus can accept my offering and gratitude to him. None of you choose who is with Jesus, for you to pretend to justify who is Christian or who is not Christian is blasphemy. Unsuscribed!
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Sorry Gib's son.....
My mistake......
I thought that was "six" who said that about himself.....
ANNOUNCEMENT TO SIX.....
You were right after all.... given enough rope I "did" put my foot in my mouth.
I've been humbled....
Again, sorry Gib's son...
My mistake.
coolwhip
11-02-2012, 03:24 PM
Thats ok, all liberals a born with foot in mouth disease.
This will be a first, me labeled a liberal, I guess I should enjoy it while I can. That's like labeling Obama as......... I'm gonna stop right there, might insert my foot again.
barbar
11-02-2012, 04:35 PM
barbar you reminded me of something about my one week visit to Melbourne, Australia. I was told that Aussie men treat their women like $hit. That's why Aussie girls loved us yanks--because we treated women so well. I wonder if it's the same situation with you Kiwi's?
It is not that kiwi men treat their women like sheit, it is that women just get in the way of fishing hunting and rugby.
You yanks are charmers when it comes to the girls, or is the big wallets.
It is OK to call you yanks?
Phrancis
11-02-2012, 04:41 PM
Personally as a secularist I am perfectly happy sitting on the sidelines and watching all the different religious people fight it out. It's almost like WWF Royal Rumble sometimes! :munching:
That being said, what I'm observing here is that a lot of controversy seems to come up when discussing either candidate's religious background, but my opinion is that it might be more relevant to look at their personal values and their record to see if it reflects those values. You know what they say about opinions and a**holes, we all have one and they all stink.
(not to mistake me for an Atheist, I've been both Christian and Atheist and found neither of them brought anything valuable to my life so I just walked away from all religious practice and been doing great since)
Gib's Son
11-02-2012, 04:45 PM
Sorry Gib's son.....
My mistake......
I thought that was "six" who said that about himself.....
ANNOUNCEMENT TO SIX.....
You were right after all.... given enough rope I "did" put my foot in my mouth.
I've been humbled....
Again, sorry Gib's son...
My mistake.
No worries! Like I said, I never said it was or was not me that grew up in Long Beach. The most I will say is that I grew up a good part life in So. Ca., and not in such a great area. When we moved to Nevada, the area was not much better, just allot whiter. Being the good looking lad I was, making all the ladies swoon :D, I was always having to prove myself. Somethings never change.:couchhide:
barbar
11-02-2012, 04:49 PM
No worries! Like I said, I never said it was or was not me that grew up in Long Beach. The most I will say is that I grew up a good part life in So. Ca., and not in such a great area. When we moved to Nevada, the area was not much better, just allot whiter. Being the good looking lad I was, making all the ladies swoon :D, I was always having to prove myself. Somethings never change.:couchhide:
Mirror Mirror on the wall, who the most handsome of them all?
Gib Son?
Naaaaaaaaaaa.
[QUOTE=energy star;14505131]BAM![/QUOTE
Amazing.
You think I'm "for" Obama.....
You've got that wrong.
You've just given me more ammo to back up what I just told you....."Do your homework".
I do have to hand it to you, you certainly are a great debater. Perhaps one could even if all you the "Master" bater. But just because you have the gift of gab, it doesn't make you right.
I'm right because I'm take my time to study the issues that interest me.
Yes there is a difference in thw Mormon religion and Christianity. Trying to mainstream their beliefs as Christian with out revealing their differences just shows they have something to hide.
I believe Mormonism is a faith that was created by a man who wanted power over others.
He bastardized the Gospel and "adjusted" it to suite his purpose.
Or did they finally find those golden plates ?
As far as works are concerned the bible explicitly states by faith alone are you saved.
If you belive in holy sacraments and immulating Jesus then you are taking orders from a man, not God.
A religion that subjegates woman and calls for Harem's is obviously the work of a man.
Again you're deluding yourself. Purposely even.
This will be a first, me labeled a liberal, I guess I should enjoy it while I can. That's like
labeling Obama as......... I'm gonna stop right there, might insert my foot again.
Why stop now ? You're on a roll.
Phrancis
11-02-2012, 05:07 PM
[QUOTE=Mrak;14505771]
I believe Mormonism is a faith that was created by a man who wanted power over others.
Sounds more and more like Scientology huh!
[QUOTE=Six;14506411]
Sounds more and more like Scientology huh!
Scientology, Catholocism, Islam etc.
Gib's Son
11-02-2012, 05:13 PM
Mirror Mirror on the wall, who the most handsome of them all?
Gib Son?
Naaaaaaaaaaa.
Your crystal ball and tarot card are defective as well.:grin2:
Phrancis
11-02-2012, 05:22 PM
Hey on an unrelated note, I know a man who is Seventh Day Adventist who once was trying to convey to me that, paraphrased for brevity:
"The 7-day weekly cycle is proof that the Earth was created in 7 days as the bible says"
This is further supported by the "Spirit of Prophecy" (code language for Ellen G. White, their so-called prophet and one of the founders of the SDA church)
Nothing against SDA members, know several that are great people, but this belief is kind of wacko. Yahweh states in Genesis that he established the 7-day cycle as a memorial of creation. Circular reasoning, anyone?
printer2
11-02-2012, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE=Mrak;14505771]
As far as works are concerned the bible explicitly states by faith alone are you saved.
I am a jerk, I think only of myself and not of others. I venomously believe in God the Father and Son and that they will take me to heaven even though I cut people off while driving.
If you get my point.
Makinhole
11-02-2012, 08:21 PM
6 you talk about the Bible like you think you know it. you have obviously not read James chapter 2 if you believe you can be saved without works. just like the rest of the things your saying they're not true. Appears Satan has you confused. Read James chapter 2 and repent you heathen. Anyone misled by 6, you have been warned, for he is clueless.
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coolwhip
11-02-2012, 08:23 PM
I knew a dude named James, he got banned from this here site.
corny
11-03-2012, 06:46 AM
[QUOTE=Mrak;14505771]
I'm right because I'm take my time to study the issues that interest me.
Yes there is a difference in thw Mormon religion and Christianity. Trying to mainstream their beliefs as Christian with out revealing their differences just shows they have something to hide.
I believe Mormonism is a faith that was created by a man who wanted power over others.
He bastardized the Gospel and "adjusted" it to suite his purpose.
Or did they finally find those golden plates ?
As far as works are concerned the bible explicitly states by faith alone are you saved.
If you belive in holy sacraments and immulating Jesus then you are taking orders from a man, not God.
A religion that subjegates woman and calls for Harem's is obviously the work of a man.
Again you're deluding yourself. Purposely even.
Someone once told me that those golden plates are hidden in the same cave as the ark of the covenant......
glennac
11-03-2012, 07:54 AM
[QUOTE=Six;14506411]
Yeah corny and I hear that cave is were you get all your "facts" for your "posts" here also. LOL... Thank you very much
Someone once told me that those golden plates are hidden in the same cave as the ark of the covenant......
[QUOTE=Six;14506411]
I am a jerk, I think only of myself and not of others. I venomously believe in God the Father and Son and that they will take me to heaven even though I cut people off while driving.
If you get my point.
No not really. What does being a selfish jerk have todo with having faith and not beleving in works ?
The truth is most of the people I know at my Church would give you the shirt off their backs.
And not because they were forced to through theology.
Works to reach heaven is about as selfish as you can get.
At leasy any kindness or charity coming from me is sincere.
OldSchoolMech
11-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Why must we name our God? I think if we did away with religion the world would be a better place.
Six I would give you the shirt of my back food shelter a ride but thats how I was raised it has nothing to do with religion.
corny
11-03-2012, 01:35 PM
Good one Glenn.....
anyhow.... Im just trying to point out that using Smiths golden plates is not a good example of proving the mormon faith wrong...when in fact there is just as much proof that smith did have those plates as there is that the ark of the covenant...or even noahs ark....actually existed. Ark of the Covenant being the object which holds our true christians "plates"....
Just got to be carefull. It doesnt take much to fool man..... and many followers of Smith probably believe every bit of the storys he told....
Faith.....
YE......................................
The....
Kraken....
Release him, please......
RoBoTeq
11-03-2012, 03:05 PM
The only thing theological that matters to me for a president is that the president believe in a Creator of the Universe that is not whatever Islam is based on. And no, Islam is not based on the God of Abraham that it claims to be based on. It takes only a little study to realize that Mohamed was more influenced by pagan rock worship than by the Abrahamic teachings and history of God.
So my question is: How does someone know whether something is a truth or if something is "not" truth.? Does one have the faith that God can reveal the answer?
Or are we left to figure it out ourselves?
barbar
11-03-2012, 06:37 PM
Abrahamic teachings and history of God.
Should this not actually ready
Abrahamic teachings and some mans interpretation of the history of God.
Why must we name our God? I think if
we did away with religion the world would be a better place.
Six I would give you the shirt of my back food shelter a ride but thats how I was raised it has nothing to do with religion.
Well that was my point. Reread my initial post.
You also mistake religion with faith. A organized religion is as much of a threat to me as anyone else.
Corny the golden plates have to....of course be considered in context.
For instance a many millenia old Faith with middle eastern origins has in the last couple of hundred years for some reason chosen a European man in North America through golden plates to be a new messiah.
To start a religion that happens condone having many wives ?
You sure thats not just some horny old crack pot taking advantage of his oratoracle gifts to get hot chicks and money ?
RoBoTeq
11-03-2012, 10:27 PM
So my question is: How does someone know whether something is a truth or if something is "not" truth.? Does one have the faith that God can reveal the answer?
Or are we left to figure it out ourselves?If you are referring to spiritual truth, there is a reason it is called "faith". All I require in a leader is that they have faith that we humans are not in charge of the Universe, but there is an intelligence that is. Obviously man did not create the Universe, so the choice is that either existance of the Universe is by sheer hapenstance or there was an intelligent design which requires some sort of Creator.
My guess is that none of us fully understands the Truth of that which we call God. For What It's Worth, when Buffalo Springfield sings that "Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong.", there seems to be a lot of Truth in those words.
RoBoTeq
11-03-2012, 10:41 PM
Abrahamic teachings and history of God.
Should this not actually ready
Abrahamic teachings and some mans interpretation of the history of God.
I understand your way of thinking, but no, what I wrote is accurate. The Hebrew Testament of God's relationship with the Hebrews is certainly written by man, allegedly inspired by God. However, it is not just "some" man's interpretation of anything. The same is true for pagan accounts of their gods histories, when combined, are not much different then the Hebrew historical account of God's relationship with the Hebrews. The Hebrew Testament of a history of God's relationship with the Hebrews is told to us by several different persons, just as the pagan histories of the many pagan gods, in reality a breakdown of the different natures of the one God understood by the Hebrews, were told by many different peoples of the pagan faiths.
It is pure arrogance and ignorance of combined histories which in many cases could not possibly have been subjected to one another to believe that all of these similar stories are not related in a spiritual truth that an intelligent Creator of the Universe exists.
wolfstrike
11-04-2012, 06:47 PM
I have nothing against Mormons either, i'm voting for Romney.
but if Romney wins we'll have a high priest in a cult running the country
RoBoTeq
11-04-2012, 07:09 PM
As long as a persons theological belief does not oppose what the U.S. was designed to be, I could care less what that belief is. As far as I am aware, no Mormons have flown jets full of Americans into buildings full of Americans, as is the case for the so called religion that Obama continues to make excuses for.
As long as a persons theological belief does
not oppose what the U.S. was designed to be, I could care less what that belief is. As far as I am aware, no Mormons have flown jets full of Americans into buildings full of Americans, as is the case for the so called religion that Obama continues to make excuses for.
I agree. I guess my one contention of having such a staunch supporter and practioner of a religion that so far has managed to isolate and control a signifigant portion of American soil would be who are you really voting for ?
Romney or the Mormon church ?
Look, you cant swing a dead cat in the South and not hit a Baptist church but are Baptist churches so prevalent that they are the identifying feature for our geographical location ?
Salt Lake City and Utah are almost synonymous with the Mormon Church.
What type of organization/religion preaches a doctrine of isolation and exclusion ?
Tell you what, drive through Salt Lake City ans see if you cant count on both hands the # of churches or temples that are NOT Mormon.
allan38
11-04-2012, 08:19 PM
I'm not concerned about all the small differences between Christian sects. Many of them denounce each other based on the smallest of things. I prefer to look at the individual and how they spend their time and money.
Mitt Romney supports his church, acts as an active member of his faith and has put a lot of unpaid time towards good works. He did not brag on his activities, others have brought them up to allow people to know where his heart is. He is just a man, his actions have been consistent with that of a strong man of faith. He is a doer, not a talker.
RoBoTeq
11-04-2012, 08:28 PM
I agree. I guess my one contention of having such a staunch supporter and practioner of a religion that so far has managed to isolate and control a signifigant portion of American soil would be who are you really voting for ?
Romney or the Mormon church ?
Look, you cant swing a dead cat in the South and not hit a Baptist church but are Baptist churches so prevalent that they are the identifying feature for our geographical location ?
Salt Lake City and Utah are almost synonymous with the Mormon Church.
What type of organization/religion preaches a doctrine of isolation and exclusion ?
Tell you what, drive through Salt Lake City ans see if you cant count on both hands the # of churches or temples that are NOT Mormon.
I've been to Salt Lake City, and you are correct in saying it is heavily influenced by the Mormons. The same is true for the North Shore region of Oahu. Both areas are also less impovershed with better ways of working with, not just giving handouts to, the poor in those areas. If that's what we can look forward to with a Mormon president, I'm all for it.
Mormons may have some wacky theological beliefs, especially for such a generally conservative bunch, but they are also focused on self improvement and the betterment of their social lives. I'm not saying I am willing to give up my occasional tequila sipping or looking at nekked ladies, but we all could benefit from some of the life lessons practiced by Mormons. If nothing else, Mormons certainly do embrace capitalism, which we need to be reinstilled if we are going to survive as a nation.
tostaos
11-04-2012, 09:20 PM
As long as a persons theological belief does not oppose what the U.S. was designed to be, I could care less what that belief is. As far as I am aware, no Mormons have flown jets full of Americans into buildings full of Americans, as is the case for the so called religion that Obama continues to make excuses for.But a Christian parked a Ryder truck in Oklahoma City.
RoBoTeq
11-04-2012, 09:35 PM
But a Christian parked a Ryder truck in Oklahoma City.
Not at all. A follower of Christ's teachings would not have committed such a crime against his fellow man. If McVeigh was indeed a Christian, his actions against others was not Christian. Conversely, Muslims commit acts of violence in accordance with Islamic teaching, even if that teaching is only allegedly from certain Islamic sects, it is still Islamic teaching.
Mormons are not really Christians. Like Muslims, Mormons include Jesus Christ in their fabricated histories for the purpose of legitimizing their claims. Both Mormons and Muslims follow the claims of a singular person. Those similarities aside, we don't read about Mormons killing others around the world every single day in the papers. If a Mormon committed any of the atrocities that Muslims commit daily, they would be discredited by other Mormons, not held up as hero's and martyrs.
What do you believe in, Toastie?
tostaos
11-04-2012, 10:25 PM
If McVeigh was indeed a Christian, his actions against others was not Christian. Conversely, Muslims commit acts of violence in accordance with Islamic teaching, even if that teaching is only allegedly from certain Islamic sects, it is still Islamic teaching.You are clueless, there is no difference between Christian and Islamic teaching in this regard.
What I believe in? Santa Claus, Mickey Mouse...
barbar
11-04-2012, 10:25 PM
Not at all. A follower of Christ's teachings would not have committed such a crime against his fellow man. If McVeigh was indeed a Christian, his actions against others was not Christian. Conversely, Muslims commit acts of violence in accordance with Islamic teaching, even if that teaching is only allegedly from certain Islamic sects, it is still Islamic teaching.
Mormons are not really Christians. Like Muslims, Mormons include Jesus Christ in their fabricated histories for the purpose of legitimizing their claims. Both Mormons and Muslims follow the claims of a singular person. Those similarities aside, we don't read about Mormons killing others around the world every single day in the papers. If a Mormon committed any of the atrocities that Muslims commit daily, they would be discredited by other Mormons, not held up as hero's and martyrs.
What do you believe in, Toastie?
Are there any Mormons in your armed forces? How many non combat people have been killed by western forces, in the last 20 or so years.
I have not seen any Mormons, condemn these atrocities which occur on a daily basis (which they would be if you were the one being directly effected), and are your soldiers seen as hero's (on this issue, in my opinion they are, not because of the acts that they do, but because of the sacrifice they are willing to give and their is not to question the orders given, which is a different kettle of fish)
So my question is: How does someone know whether something is a truth or if something is "not" truth.? Does one have the faith that God can reveal the answer?
Or are we left to figure it out ourselves?
This is theoretical but never the less something to think about...
If a child grew up on an island all alone......what religion would it have ???
Roy
Mitt Romney supports his church, acts as an active member of his faith and has put a lot of unpaid time towards good works. He did not brag on his activities, others have brought them up to allow people to know where his heart is. He is just a man, his actions have been consistent with that of a strong man of faith. He is a doer, not a talker.
You could say the same about Mohammed.
Roy
But a Christian parked a Ryder truck in
Oklahoma City.
That is so week. Really week and is a prime example of the typical nonsense that is to be expected from the liberal mindset.
But its the best they can do.
But a Christian parked a Ryder truck in Oklahoma City.
But thats not what brought the building down, we have been lied to.
Roy
You are clueless, there is no difference between Christian and Islamic
teaching in this regard.
What I believe in? Santa Claus, Mickey Mouse...
Examples please that have forced you into the twisted dereliction of thinking Christians and Islam practioners are comparable ?
I feel sorry for some of these people. You've embraced a position based on innacurate information.
"Thinking" ,its harder than it looks apparently.
garyed
11-05-2012, 10:31 AM
That is so week. Really week and is a prime example of the typical nonsense that is to be expected from the liberal mindset.
But its the best they can do.
I disagree, it has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative.
The point is that you can not predict anyone's actions based solely on their religion.
I know I will get a lot of mud slinging from many out there because that's some peoples nature. But I have to laugh when I read what others say what mormon are or what they are not. Like "Whoopy" on "The View" which I suppose a lot of people take as a legitimate source of news, why I don't know. "Whoopy" confronts Mrs. Romney about the fact that mormon's faith wont permit them to join or fight in the military. Of course "Whoopy" was corrected. Before more of you get misinformation from others out there throwing a bunch of b.s. you might want to find better sources other than the "Whoopy's" and others that don't have a clue and just repeat what someone else throws out.
I read that mormon's don't worship Jesus Christ. In this thread I've read it. What kind of a rediculas comment is that anyhow. Please!!!! Mormon's, which as their name is: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". Give me a break....
If you want correct facts then go to the source, not the "Whoopy's" of the world. And yes, I am one of those moron mormon's I've read so much about. And "No" we really don't have horns under our hair. (Believe it or not, I've had people seriously ask that and other odd ball questions)
Let the slinging mud begin.....
hvacker
11-05-2012, 02:24 PM
If you were born in India you'd probably be Hindu, If Afghanistan, probably Muslim. But for Europians to be Christians is kind of like a square peg in a round hole. Their not Hebrews and Christian beliefs are Hebrew centric. A more natural belief for Europians would be the nature based beliefs. Druids.
As for Americans it would be more fitting to adopt a Native American belief.
As for Morman's, I wonder what they thought when they looked at that great big lake and were told they had reached their promised land and found out it was basically useless.
Most become what their born into and then will swear by it w/o any knowledge of anything else. Like Puck says, "What fools these mortals be". I'm just running my neuron collider.
I read that mormon's don't worship Jesus Christ. In this thread I've read it. What kind
of a rediculas comment is that anyhow. Please!!!! Mormon's, which as their name is: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". Give me a break....
If you want correct facts then go to the source, not the "Whoopy's" of the world. And yes, I am one of those moron mormon's I've read so much about. And "No" we really don't have horns under our hair. (Believe it or not, I've had people seriously ask that and other odd ball questions)
Let the slinging mud begin.....
If you would RE-READ the thread and post that supposedly say they dont worship Jesus Christ you would notice it says they dont worship " the same" Jesus Christ thats in the gospels.
If you think thats "rediculas" then too bad. Your personal issues with reading comprehension have no bearing on the truth.
That the mormon jesus and the Jesus in the Gospels are distinct.
shaygetz
11-05-2012, 02:57 PM
An interesting read from a former Mormon on the implications of Governor Romney's candidacy...
http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-mormon-plan-for-america-and-the-rise-of-mitt-romney
Me? I voting for time, and there is precious little left for our nation. With one candidate, we get 6 months to a year, with the other, 3-3 1/2 years tops before we run off the fiscal cliff. Those of us with young children get to explain what happened and why in due season and, for the most part, with deep shame for our part in what's to come. Until then I waver between the weeping of Jeremiah and the cold "Let 'em burn" of Jonah.
"...I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the Lord; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man."
Even so, come Lord Jesus...
I disagree, it has nothing to do with being liberal
or conservative.
The point is that you can not predict anyone's actions based solely on their religion.
Now THATS just naive.
An interesting read from a former
Mormon on the implications of Governor Romney's candidacy...
http://www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/the-mormon-plan-for-america-and-the-rise-of-mitt-romney
Me? I voting for time, and there is precious little left for our nation. With one candidate, we get 6 months to a year, with the other, 3-3 1/2 years tops before we run off the fiscal cliff. Those of us with young children get to explain what happened and why in due season and, for the most part, with deep shame for our part in what's to come. Until then I waver between the weeping of Jeremiah and the cold "Let 'em burn" of Jonah.
"...I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the Lord; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man."
Even so, come Lord Jesus...
Thank you Shady, it was the whole point of the thread.
Just had to wait a few days for a relevant response.
Hey "six"..
"There you go again"
That about sum's up my point.
Hey "six"..
"There you go again"
That about sum's up my point.
Irrelevant
Irrelevant
Why give Shady the credit for a relevant statement: Ed Decker was the one who authored his answer. For a guy who seems to talk intelligently you sure don't act intelligent. What was your point of this thread? You state that you don't have anything against the Mormons and then you ramble off a stream of lies and crap that you can pick up at any anti-mormon website. i.e. Ed Decker. Wow! that takes a lot of creativity. Why stop with the Mormons. Go to the anti-baptist, anti-catholic, anti-methodist, anti-presbyterian, anti-christian, anti-atheist, anti-Amish, anti-the world is round, anti-Santa Clause, anti-Mickey Mouse and what ever group you have a grudge against. Oh, that's right. You did state that you had nothing against Mormon's, I forgot that. I'd sure like to know what Mormon got under your craw that set you off attacking them. Personally I'm at this "HVAC-TALK" to talk about just that. Why don't you do your religious bashing on another forum and just talk hvac on this one. Sorry to rant, but it's comments like the kind that you dish out that really make me wonder how our society will ever make it. Obviously you don't label yourself as a Christian. I don't believe I know any Christians that would begin a thread on an hvac talk site ripping down another religion. And as a parting thought. Please don't go attacking the Amish, they are more Christian than I am, they'll be more apt to turn the other cheek. That is if they had the means to reply. Now go ahead..... tell me this isn't relevant. Than re-read your opening thread.
Why give Shady the credit for a relevant statement: Ed Decker was the one who authored his answer.
I realize it wasn't Shadeyz original work but he understood the premise of the thread. It's more than I can say for you.
For a guy who seems to talk intelligently you sure don't act intelligent.
I am very intelligent and it's not my fault you can't grasp the obvious intention of the thread and that was to pose a deeper question of the ambitions of the Mormon faith and their distinction from Christianity.
What was your point of this thread?
Lol...
You state that you don't have anything against the Mormons and then you ramble off a stream of lies and crap that you can pick up at any anti-mormon website. i.e. Ed Decker.
What I said was the truth and I rarely have to use a web sight for support. I researched before I started the thread as I normally do.
Please give specific reasons that counter my claims.
Wow! that takes a lot of creativity. Why stop with the Mormons. Go to the anti-baptist, anti-catholic, anti-methodist, anti-presbyterian, anti-christian, anti-atheist, anti-Amish, anti-the world is round, anti-Santa Clause, anti-Mickey Mouse and what ever group you have a grudge against.
B e c a u s e a M o r m o n is r u n n i n g for P R E S I D E N T.....( talking slowly so you can understand )
Oh, that's right. You did state that you had nothing against Mormon's, I forgot that. I'd sure like to know what Mormon got under your craw that set you off attacking them.
Just because I have nothing against it's practioners personally doesn't mean I can't question the faiths motivation......again.
Personally I'm at this "HVAC-TALK" to talk about just that. Why don't you do your religious bashing on another forum and just talk hvac on this one. Sorry to rant, but it's comments like the kind that you dish out that really make me wonder how our society will ever make it.
Oh don't worry about people like me ruining our society. But I assume you wonder about many things and will just have to accept that you didn't understand the thread.
I DARE to question the motivations of a religion that has chosen to worship a twisted version of the Gospel and you're worried about America........Really ?
Obviously you don't label yourself as a Christian. I don't believe I know any Christians that would begin a thread on an hvac talk site ripping down another religion.
I'm a Christian and I believe in the Jesus Christ from the Gospels. NO I don't think he's my brother or that he will appear in America to make people God like nor do I believe in " WORKS " as the Gospel tells me Faith alone is enough.
But alas I'm a little dark and don't . play well with others and may not fit the stereo type of a " Christian ".
It is how God made me and since I accepted that long ago I dont feel like I'm persuaded to make any apologies for it.
Anyway...
So I and Mormons disagree. Fine. They fact they've taken a massive segment of the US and basically colonized it is more concerning to me.
Sure Salt Lake is Beautiful but if Morons and I are both Christians why am I not good enough to enter their Temples ?
And as a parting thought. Please don't go attacking the Amish, they are more Christian than I am, they'll be more apt to turn the other cheek. That is if they had the means to reply. Now go ahead..... tell me this isn't relevant. Than re-read your opening thread.
Is an Amish person running for President ??? Wow can you imagine the size of the Amish "Horse Carriage One " ?
You know because they disavow all things tech ? Get it ???
The Amish President wouldn't fly on air force one so he would have this huge horse drawn carriage ?
tunnel_rat
11-05-2012, 07:20 PM
I'd vote for Daffy Duck if he was an Agnostic Hindu with Pentacostal tendancies leaning towards The Snake Handlers if it meant booting Hussein to the curb..........
Hey "six"..
"There you go again"
That about sum's up my point.[/
QUOTE]
[QUOTE=tunnel_rat;14529231]I'd vote for Daffy Duck if he was an Agnostic Hindu with Pentacostal tendancies leaning towards The Snake Handlers if it meant booting Hussein to the curb..........
You and me both. I justed had a concern and wanted to pose the question.
now I might question Daffys poly-faith concerning their ultimate objective.......if its not to controversial that is.
tunnel_rat
11-05-2012, 08:58 PM
Yea, but Daffy wouldn't let his beliefs distort his constitutional duty......
RoBoTeq
11-05-2012, 09:46 PM
Yea, but Daffy wouldn't let his beliefs distort his constitutional duty......
And even Daffy wouldn't "duck" the issues and his responsibilities as much as O'Bummer does.
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