Weil Mclain Boiler Problem

[whitcam]

* 6 year old Weil Mclain Model A/B WGO -4 Series 3.
* Regular maintainance every fall since installation

Problem:
Over the past two years the system has failed to start on a 5 separate occasions when the temperature has fallen below thermostat setting. As I have an annual maintenance agreement my oil company comes and checks each time. During this period at least 4 separate technicians have been sent to look at the system -performing filter and nozzle check and other things they do that seem similar to the regular tune ups. System will work fine for several months and then problem will occur again.

Questions:
1. Is there a known defect with this unit that could be causing this problem?
2. Does Weil Mclein have troubleshooting resource (other than call local service tech)?
3. Could there be something external to the system that could be causing this problem (i.e. chimney problem) that I should have looked at in addition to unit?

Thanks for any help in attempting to determine my next steps.

[comfortdoc]

When they come out what did they find to be the problem?

[whitcam]

That is just it - they do not find any real problem. All re-did tune up. One also replaced a release valve and tested the pressure on the line from oil tank to burner. Other that that they got it working and left. Never able to identify any significant problem.

[simpleman]

If the problems not flame failure do to too much air or sludge nozzle then have them replace the burner relay.

I seem a few of weils burner control not make contact when there a call for demand.The contact get pitted and will not bring on the burner.However alittle tap on the burner control will cause it to come on.

This type of problem will have the best in the trade staching their head.So callback are a coming.

If I get a call on a weils and everything else checkout ok
then the burner control is replace.

[comfortdoc]

How old is the oil tank?
Where is the tank - inside, outside, above or below burner etc?
How long is oil line? One pipe from tank to burner or two?
Oil line at tank come off bottom valve or out of top?
Flare or compression fittings on oil lines?

If the chimney has not been inspected and/or cleaned in several years you should have a reputable chimney contractor check it. It's a safety issue and probably not contributing to the burner issue.

[magicrookie]

Do they re-clean it cause its plugged?

[whitcam]

How old is the oil tank?
>> 26 years

Where is the tank - inside, outside, above or below burner etc?
>> Inside - opposite end of basement from burner. Oil line runs under concrete floor.

How long is oil line? One pipe from tank to burner or two?
>> about 25 feet - one pipe

Oil line at tank come off bottom valve or out of top?
>> bottom valve

Flare or compression fittings on oil lines?
>> don't know the difference?

[marylandtech]

This could be lots of things. If the nozzles and filters keep getting sludged up causing these problems I would try to make the tank a top feed to keep the feed line out of the tank sludge and install a high quality oil filter like a Garber or similar. Does the red reset button trip on the burner causing it to lock out. Alot of times nuisance call backs and lock outs are caused by weak/poor spark from the ignition transformer. But not being there all this is just speculation.

[karsthuntr]

I had two boilers in the last week that were installed by a local hack. Found the combustion air band was set to 6 with a .85 nozzle. Reset to zero after the Bacharach test was performed. The burner would not light off after it was cleaned with the high air band setting.


Point is did they do a combustion test on the burner?

[kewlguy1]

Did you have to hit the reset button? Did the burner motor run for 45 sec. and then cutout? Is it a package boiler/burner or a knockdown? What is the name of burner?

If you are having clogged fuel nozzles have oil tank cleaned. Add biocide to tank and make sure there is no water present.

Perform nozzle tests with different spray angles and test with combustion analyzer for optimum combustion.

Check gap on electrodes. Use ohmmeter to determine cad cell resistance with flame on.

Put a riello Burner in and forgetabout it!

[simpleman]

Originally posted by karsthuntr
I had two boilers in the last week that were installed by a local hack. Found the combustion air band was set to 6 with a .85 nozzle. Reset to zero after the Bacharach test was performed. The burner would not light off after it was cleaned with the high air band setting.


It happen in your part of the state too?

[karsthuntr]

Unfortunately :(

[comfortdoc]

Originally posted by whitcam
[BQuestions:
1. Is there a known defect with this unit that could be causing this problem?
2. Does Weil Mclein have troubleshooting resource (other than call local service tech)?
3. Could there be something external to the system that could be causing this problem (i.e. chimney problem) that I should have looked at in addition to unit?

Thanks for any help in attempting to determine my next steps.
[/B]

1) Given the info provided so far it does not seem to be a defect with the unit that would point to a problem with the manufacturer. As you read this post you see almost everyone has something different they would look at first as the cause of your trouble, but none are looking at engineering issues with the boiler.

2 & 3) Weil McLain does have regional tech reps, but I think the service contractor must initiate the request for help. In your situation I would strongly insist the service contractor send a supervisor to help a tech diagnose the system. From the oil fill pipe out to the chimney the system needs to be evaluated. Insist it be done now, not wait to see if there will be another failure. If you wait it will be cold and all they will want to do is get the heat going and return later to look further for the problem.

There are many things that could be causing intermittent burner failures. I would look at oil delivery first and probably run dual oil pipes from the top if the tank if I saw anything that seemed at all not normal. Properly clean the boiler and setup the combustion would follow.

[Edited by comfortdoc on 10-26-2006 at 08:36 PM]

[whitcam]

To answer some of the questions:

1. Do they re-clean it cause its plugged?
I am clearly no expert but they reclean I think just to do something - they all expect to find some clear problem but based on the tests they run they cannot identify a clear cause.

2. Is filter quality filter?
Kennecott Commercial Fulflo Filter

3. Does the red reset button trip on the burner causing it to lock out.
I have to push the red button to start it again and usually the temp in the house is in the high 50's. Though from what I have read this is not something you want to do on a regular basis.

4. I appreciate what comfortdoc is saying and that is basically what I requested the last time this happened. They sent out their "top technician" 15 years experience etc. From what I can read on his notes he tested pressure in oil line, B4 filter, A strainer, Nozzle, 400 Air Vent, Flushed O.S.V, Lockout (has check mark next to it). When he left he told me he checked everything he could and found nothing significantly wrong to identify as the cause of the problem.

Now that this happened again I thought I would just do some investigation and see if anyone knew of anything else I should look into.

Thank you all for your comments - I appreciate your time.

[BoilerBoss]

in addition to other good suggestions aready made by others here, has anyone actually checked the oil suction pressure, oil filter, and discharge pressure to the oil nozzle?
if the suction pressure is too geat due to a restriction or plugged oil filter or screen in the oil pump itself, the oil can gassify and result in a niusance trip on the burner. Also it is extremely important to make sure the electrodes are in good condition, no cracks in the insualtors and set EXACTLY as per the manufacturers recommendations in the burner IOM and setup instructions for that model burner.

[beenthere]

A company with better service techs.

Unfortunately. Without going into step by step instructions, its hard to tell you what they should be checking, and what the results should be if the test proves that function or device is ok.

primary
cad
electrodes
porcilians
combustion air
oil pump vacuum
pump pressure to nozzle
pump coupling
burner motor
over fire draft
draft at breech
transformer
buss contact


Just to name a few things that should be checked.