York boo-boo?

[hvacman77]

Our company installed 4 York rooftop units a couple of years ago for a Big lots have had no problems until recently one had a grounded compressor. While doing the procedure to replace I noticed a sporlan C-164 liquid line drier on the discharge line(by the way these are heat pumps, MN BAVA-T060AB)I checked the other 3, same thing. Needless to say i removed the drier and intalled a bi-directional one in the liqiid line. Is this a screw-up that got overlooked? or does York beleive the drier will act as a muffler? Sporlan designed it to function as a liquid line drier, in my 30 years never heard of a discharge line drier. Any guys seen this?

[esdd]

Yep. York in its not so infinite wisdom did this, It is the patented York Self Destruct Device, or YSDD. The dryer is constructed so that it cannot blow apart internally like the alcos do, instead the dessicant cracks and grinds it's self into a powder that goes through the strainer and winds up in the oil sump and kills compressors. York, Guarantees work for the Serviceman.

[no8no3]

Tip...Stock up on new TXV's for this location, you will need them.

[NormChris]

As a York factory instructor I can tell you that the installation of the filter-drier in the discharge line of the compressor is not a "screw up".

A great deal of research was done before this design was given the green light.

Norm

[clarkkent]

The ones I have seen that have come apart generally have undersized duct work that cause higher than normal discharge temps during heating mode. have lots of units running with no problems.

[tucsonbill]

NormChris, please explain your statement.

I called Sporlan. They do not reccomend placing the liquid line dryer in the discharge line.

Sporlan says there is not much chance of the core breaking up, but the moisture capacity is greatly diminished.

What could be the possible benefit in this? Is the purpose to save York from using the more expensive reversible driers in their heat pumps?






[Edited by tucsonbill on 10-13-2006 at 10:00 AM]

[Andy Schoen]

Placing the filter-drier in the common discharge does have the benefit of protecting the reversing valve from debris. As I recall, this was an issue when these units were designed.

Yes, this is generally a lower cost approach when compared to a reversing filter-drier.

The lowest cost approach is, of course, not to use a filter-drier at all. :)

[NormChris]

Originally posted by tucsonbill
NormChris, please explain your statement.

I called Sporlan. They do not reccomend placing the liquid line dryer in the discharge line.

Sporlan says there is not much chance of the core breaking up, but the moisture capacity is greatly diminished.

What could be the possible benefit in this? Is the purpose to save York from using the more expensive reversible driers in their heat pumps?






[Edited by tucsonbill on 10-13-2006 at 10:00 AM]


A great deal of research was done in the York testing lab before this was approved. It is true that the ability of the drier to absorb moisture is greater at reduced temperatures however we upsized the drier to provide protection.

We have been doing this for many years and our warranty issues regarding this approach has been zero.

Yes, this allows us to save cost of installing a biflow drier. It works and has for many years.

Norm

[freonrick]

coleman did this back in the 80's. now it is York. The problem is it is harder to detect a partly restricted drier.
You can have a high discharge pressure and a lower condensing pressure and not notice it. Driers need to be where you can check a pressure drop and check temperature drop.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by freonrick
coleman did this back in the 80's. now it is York. The problem is it is harder to detect a partly restricted drier.
You can have a high discharge pressure and a lower condensing pressure and not notice it. Driers need to be where you can check a pressure drop and check temperature drop.


Coleman is York. Just a difference in branding. Same assembly line.

[anthonyca]

I was working on some climatemaster water source heatpumps rooftop units today that do the samething. They look like reg package units with economizers ect but have condenser water and heat exchangers. They also have a sporlan liquid line drier in the discharge.

[tucsonbill]

I'm just shaking my head. Maybe its just because for 30 years of my experience it was supposed to be a cardinal sin to do this. I still don't think I could put one in. I'll have to go with the reversible liquid line drier.
(no offense, NormChris).

I remember back when I did residential York was putting little "pencil" molecular sieve liquid line dryers in their 5 ton and under condensing units that plugged up on a regular basis. The screens, anyways.

Well, I'm not doubting NormChris's word, and Sporlan said it was OK. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[Andy Schoen]

Originally posted by tucsonbill
Maybe its just because for 30 years of my experience it was supposed to be a cardinal sin to do this.


You may still consider it a cardinal sin if you attempt to replace the core-type filter-driers used in this application with a bead-type filter-drier.

Or placing a filter-drier in the discharge line of a straight a/c unit. It makes no sense here.

Otherwise, consider it good practice to use liquid line bi-flow filter-driers on residential heat pump system. Norm will have no problems here. :)

[NormChris]

Originally posted by Andy Schoen

Originally posted by tucsonbill
Maybe its just because for 30 years of my experience it was supposed to be a cardinal sin to do this.


You may still consider it a cardinal sin if you attempt to replace the core-type filter-driers used in this application with a bead-type filter-drier.

Or placing a filter-drier in the discharge line of a straight a/c unit. It makes no sense here.

Otherwise, consider it good practice to use liquid line bi-flow filter-driers on residential heat pump system. Norm will have no problems here. :)



Yup, Andy and I are in agreement.

[tucsonbill]

Originally posted by NormChris

Originally posted by Andy Schoen

Originally posted by tucsonbill
Maybe its just because for 30 years of my experience it was supposed to be a cardinal sin to do this.


You may still consider it a cardinal sin if you attempt to replace the core-type filter-driers used in this application with a bead-type filter-drier.

Or placing a filter-drier in the discharge line of a straight a/c unit. It makes no sense here.

Otherwise, consider it good practice to use liquid line bi-flow filter-driers on residential heat pump system. Norm will have no problems here. :)


Yup, Andy and I are in agreement.


I did not say I would put a molecular sieve filter drier in a discharge line. I said York used to put those little plug-up o-matics in their residential c.u.'s. This was to illustrate a point, namely that some manufacturers (York in this case) try little cost saving measures usually to the detriment of their customers.

Also I did not say I would put a regular core type in a res c.u. discharge line. I did say that I don't work on res any more.

What I said, if you go back and read my posts, is that I will not put a liquid line filter drier in a discharge line. I also said that NormChris is welcome to advocate doing so if he likes.

Thankfully, I do not have to work with York light commercial units very often. The Lennox L series along with Trane are far and away the best on the market and are 99% of what you will see on rooftops here in the hot southwest.

[NormChris]

Of course you are welcome to prefer any brand you like. But, to say that installing an oversized drier in the compressor discharge line is somehow not to the customers benefit is not accurate.

We performed a great deal of lab testing prior to using this method of filtration plus we have years of warranty records both of which indicate that it works. We worked out the method with Sporlan and I have read the lab reports and have reviewed the field tests. There never has been an issue with locating the filter drier in the discharge line.

I admit that I had my doubts when I first started working for the York factory. Then I dug into the facts, did my homework and changed my mind.