Clogged Filters=Compressor Burnout??

[hvtec]

Can VERY DIRTY filters cause a Compressor burnout? I have a rooftop fresh air unit with two refigeration circuits that burned out I'm told by the Installer (THERMA) because of extremely dirty filters! Can this be possible? Wouldn't it just Ice up the coil, and go off on low pressure? It blew a hole in the "pecker head" electrical connection to the compressor.

[t527ed]

dirty filters = liquid slugging back to compressor. anything can happen after that.

[enart9591]

Anything is possible.

Could it have been short cycling on low pressure due to the coil being iced up?

Could the compressor have been slugging liquid refrigerant and overheated the motor?

Could the oil have been washed out of the compressor causing the bearings to seize thereby overloading the compressor motor?

Could someone have reset the puppy so many times it just couldn't take it anymore?

Anything is possible!

[jayguy]

i imagine you mean dirty air filters. if the filters get dirty (on a txv), the txv will not allow enough refrigerant to flow to cool the compressor...should have tripped on internal heat temp sensors if they are available. what type of compressor?

[return fan]

i did a job survey for the post office, they had 22 trane rtu's. loose belts and dirty filters killed 7 compressors out of the 44 on the roof, not mentioning the other issues we found. the units were 3 years old. they got the quote about a year ago from us, cant afford to have the work done, i guess they couldnt afford to maintain the units and avoid the repairs to begin with either.....i think the cost of a stamp went up again this year too.

[berg2666]

Originally posted by hvtec
Can VERY DIRTY filters cause a Compressor burnout? I have a rooftop fresh air unit with two refigeration circuits that burned out I'm told by the Installer (THERMA) because of extremely dirty filters! Can this be possible? Wouldn't it just Ice up the coil, and go off on low pressure? It blew a hole in the "pecker head" electrical connection to the compressor.


OK now you have been given all of what could happen to a compressor when the filters are dirty, so I willo go ahed and say YES to your question.

[ikey]

slugging to the comp will short it? don't see it. is this an insurance claim excuse? No proof of it, unless your a scientist no one can prove otherwise. reason i say that is because ams denies many hos because of dirty or dusty evaps. don't get me started on ams warraties.

many "scientist" here "assume" they know of the effects, but they can't prove it. they have only read books and lernt from their uncles daddies cousin that "it's wrong"

myself included, but doubt valve failure related to dirty filter would translate into a shorted comp.

Maybe Robo can say what happens, cause he went to the convention, other than some wrench turner, as am I, so I will never try and justify or explain the interior failing of a compressor, whether it be because of moisture or a mechaniclal failure it will only be diagnosed by a lab

[jayguy]

so what do you tell a customer ikey? "i dunno what happened. since i am not a scientist, i can not even comprehend what happened and try to fix one or all of the possible causes. give me money to change the compressor. yes, it may happen again."

[NormChris]

Yes, dirty filters/low airflow can result in a compressor burnout. As a factory trainer for York I teach a class on compressor failure analysis and here is how low airflow can result in a burn.

Low airflow prevents all the liquid refrigerant from boiling off so liquid returns to the compressor. The liquid does not have to be enough to cause a slugging condition.

Liquid refrigerant flooding back can wash the oil out of the compressor bearing surfaces. Refrigerant is not a lubricant. The main motor bearings can then wear to the point that the motor's rotor can drop and drag against the motor stator windings. The winding insulation can then wear off causing a short which turns into a motor burn.

Many compressor burnouts are the direct result of liquid refrigerant floodback to the compressor. This is not an out-of-the ordinary failure.

But the way, this only occurs on refrigerant cooled compressors and cannot happen on air cooled compressors.

Norm

[t527ed]

have cut open compressors in the past that had shorted out and found busted up mechanicly inside. i would have to say that slugging could cause a short after the busted up guts took out the motor.

[ikey]

Originally posted by jayguy
so what do you tell a customer ikey? "i dunno what happened. since i am not a scientist, i can not even comprehend what happened and try to fix one or all of the possible causes. give me money to change the compressor. yes, it may happen again."

come on genius, you tell them you know what happened? if so your a liar. your have no diagnostic proof and can't on site. What an idiotic question to ask me, and even more idiotic if you think you can give an honest answer. No one on site can give a customer a "proven" result of any failure. Right? Other some obvious defect.

If your such a diagnostic prince no factory would require us to send in failed compressors for diagnosis.

this is precisely my point on this site, so many high and mighties.

and 527, why the hell would you cut open a comp? My guess it's out of warranty? and over 5 yrs in operation, with no detail of any other conditions? If you can diagnose what shorted a compressor in your unqualified laboratory shop, after yrs of opertion and your minimal experience at any level of certification, I think you should be on comedy central.

IF, IF, IF, IF, BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i'm saying is no one can prove what happened. but you say you can. your to high on something or you seem to think you invented CleanEffects.

[NormChris]

If you know what to look for you can open a semihermetic compressor and nearly always determine the cause of failure.

Of course, there are other items external to the compressor that also need to be investigated as well. But, the internal investigation of the compressor usually leads you to an external cause of failure. The compressor itself is not usually the actual cause of failure. An internal inspection simply provides the clues to the cause.

No, I would not normally cut open a fully hermetic compressor. But, I always open a failed semihermetic. If you don't determine and rectify the cause of a compressor failure the replacement is almost sure to fail as well.

[t527ed]

Originally posted by ikey

Originally posted by jayguy
so what do you tell a customer ikey? "i dunno what happened. since i am not a scientist, i can not even comprehend what happened and try to fix one or all of the possible causes. give me money to change the compressor. yes, it may happen again."

come on genius, you tell them you know what happened? if so your a liar. your have no diagnostic proof and can't on site. What an idiotic question to ask me, and even more idiotic if you think you can give an honest answer. No one on site can give a customer a "proven" result of any failure. Right? Other some obvious defect.

If your such a diagnostic prince no factory would require us to send in failed compressors for diagnosis.

this is precisely my point on this site, so many high and mighties.

and 527, why the hell would you cut open a comp? My guess it's out of warranty? and over 5 yrs in operation, with no detail of any other conditions? If you can diagnose what shorted a compressor in your unqualified laboratory shop, after yrs of opertion and your minimal experience at any level of certification, I think you should be on comedy central.

IF, IF, IF, IF, BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i'm saying is no one can prove what happened. but you say you can. your to high on something or you seem to think you invented CleanEffects.



cut open failed compressors to learn how they worked. never claimed to be an engineer, just a curiosity thing.
if a shorted compressor is also broken up inside i would say the mechanical failure caused the short. last one i opened was a scroll probably 5 or 6 yrs ago just wanted to see how they were made.

[jayguy]

Originally posted by ikey

Originally posted by jayguy
so what do you tell a customer ikey? "i dunno what happened. since i am not a scientist, i can not even comprehend what happened and try to fix one or all of the possible causes. give me money to change the compressor. yes, it may happen again."

come on genius, you tell them you know what happened? if so your a liar. your have no diagnostic proof and can't on site. What an idiotic question to ask me, and even more idiotic if you think you can give an honest answer. No one on site can give a customer a "proven" result of any failure. Right? Other some obvious defect.

If your such a diagnostic prince no factory would require us to send in failed compressors for diagnosis.

this is precisely my point on this site, so many high and mighties.

and 527, why the hell would you cut open a comp? My guess it's out of warranty? and over 5 yrs in operation, with no detail of any other conditions? If you can diagnose what shorted a compressor in your unqualified laboratory shop, after yrs of opertion and your minimal experience at any level of certification, I think you should be on comedy central.

IF, IF, IF, IF, BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i'm saying is no one can prove what happened. but you say you can. your to high on something or you seem to think you invented CleanEffects.

once again...what would you do? nothing?

you have to start somewhere. i start with what the factory says. are the factory engineers scientific enough for you? they have done the tests, they built it, they destroy it and they take it apart and will tell you what happened.

have you ever had a compressor tear down report from them? they will tell you what happened. i do not claim to ever know what happened. i do investigate all of the things that can cause a failure. i do get tear down reports (when feasible). i do tell the customer all of the possible things that can cause a compressor to fail this way. i keep investigating until i feel comfortable i have resolved all issues.

the police aren't always there when a crime occurs, but they can tell you happened. same thing.

[alpha480v]

Originally posted by hvtec
Can VERY DIRTY filters cause a Compressor burnout? I have a rooftop fresh air unit with two refigeration circuits that burned out I'm told by the Installer (THERMA) because of extremely dirty filters! Can this be possible? Wouldn't it just Ice up the coil, and go off on low pressure? It blew a hole in the "pecker head" electrical connection to the compressor.

I would say that a lack of maintenance probably caused the problem, not necessarily just the dirty filters. It seems to me that if the filters are not being changed, then other general maintenance items are not being checked as well.

[ericnyc]

if its an ongoing issue I'd have the thing cut open and find the reason. I would however on install of the new compressor blow all the oil out of the system, change the contactor and make sure connections are tight (all of them).