combustion analyser

[jeep6275]

Hey guys I'm looking for info on the bacharach fyrite insite.. it looks like they are new or newly redisgned.... I had planned on buying a testo 327 but am now wondering about the new bacharachs....
If it helps I mostly do residential and light commercial. Although today I'm tuning on some aerco benchmark 2.0s

Thanks for any input.

Jeep

[second opinion]

Hey guys I'm looking for info on the bacharach fyrite insite.. it looks like they are new or newly redisgned.... I had planned on buying a testo 327 but am now wondering about the new bacharachs....
If it helps I mostly do residential and light commercial. Although today I'm tuning on some aerco benchmark 2.0s

Thanks for any input.

Jeep

I would go with the Testo

[grasshopper]

I would go with the Testo

I would second that!!

[jeep6275]

Ok so I looked on tru techs website. Testo doesn't make the 327 anymore. This is what I planned to buy before I saw the bacharach insight plus. Anyway does anybody know anything about the 320?

Will jim do a video on it?

[kamersoutdoor]

I also am looking at both the Fyrite and 320.
I like the options of the testo, but nervous with their quality and warranty (their dig gauges aren't quite my cup of tea).
Think I read the Fyrite will self calibrate???

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[jeep6275]

The thing I like about the fyrite, is longer sensor life......

[Bart Vaio]

The thing I like about the fyrite, is longer sensor life......

. I love the Firite Insight Pro, been a great analyzer, very reliable would reccomnend for sure!

[gravity]

the fyrite pro has a very slow pump. the testo 327 has a faster pump and is by far a better analyzer. i had a fyrite pro and then moved to the 327. i would not trade it for anything.

[kamersoutdoor]

the fyrite pro has a very slow pump. the testo 327 has a faster pump and is by far a better analyzer. i had a fyrite pro and then moved to the 327. i would not trade it for anything.

Any thought on the 320?
Price has my interest peaked.

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[jim bergmann]

I have been working with the 320 for a couple of days now. Hoping to get a video up over the weekend. It is the replacement for the 327. Much nicer color display, easy to use, about the same size as the 327 with many of the features of the 330. It is very nice. We should have stock by the end of the week.

[gravity]

wow...the testo 320 is a nice meter for its price. i dont know how the plastic buttons will hold up but, you shouldn't be throwing the meter around either. i would by it if i we're looking to buy one. Trutechtools also has a testo 327 for 950. comes with analyzer, briefcase, and printer

[gravity]

it also has a NOx filter built in the sensor, built in condensate trap, easy to change gun filter, optional to have a 8000PPM spike sensor. this option is real nice since ive had my meter spike above 2500 in a split second.

[jeep6275]

I saw the 327 on tru techs site also. But if u click on it, it says not for sale. So I'm assuming its out of stock.........

Looking forward to the video jim! One more thing. Is the 320 as fast as the 327?

[gravity]

looks identical to the 327...i would say it has the same exact pump

[kamersoutdoor]

I've got my eye on the 320. Think I'll pull the trigger soon. Will report back on my thoughts.

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[Hvac216]

I used the uei c125 at a previous company and loved it. I'm looking to purchase something this fall but the uei is very pricey.

[jim bergmann]

Got the video on the Testo 310 finished, hope to get the Testo 320 up in the next few days.

http://youtu.be/JPTZH1Y9KlE

BTW, because someone will ask, the "plug" you see on the analyzer is used when you are measuring pressure to block the gas path so you do not pressurize the cells when testing gas pressure. I will do a separate video on that feature.

[Hvac216]

Got the video on the Testo 310 finished, hope to get the Testo 320 up in the next few days.

http://youtu.be/JPTZH1Y9KlE

BTW, because someone will ask, the "plug" you see on the analyzer is used when you are measuring pressure to block the gas path so you do not pressurize the cells when testing gas pressure. I will do a separate video on that feature.

Hey, is that Akron Ohio? We're you an instructor at cvcc?

[jim bergmann]

Hey, is that Akron Ohio? We're you an instructor at cvcc?

Yes that is Akron Ohio, and I still am the instructor at CVCC. Year 12 this year.

[Hvac216]

I was in the class back in 03. Been checking out your YouTube videos. Good stuff.

[jim bergmann]

This is a second video of some of the features of the Testo 310 that were not completely covered in the first video. Specifically, I am showing how to measure ambient CO, draft, and gas pressure with the 310 as well as how to get them to print.

http://youtu.be/T319yEmyac0

Jim

[Jim Davis]

Just got back from Bacharach yesterday and check out their new analyzers versus the Testo 327. Both the Intech and the Insight Plus have a faster response to CO now. A major improvement over their past units.

The Intech is a great inexpensive unit and it totally field repairable. Never really has to go back to factory for calibration or sensor replacement.

The Insight Plus performs much better than the Insight and has some new features.

We do still have some 327's left and available. We recommend if you already have some 327's in your company then it is nice to keep the same unit so everyone knows how to use it. If not, then you definitely want to look at the new units.

I am pretty sure I am the only one that has use both Testo units and both Bacharach units on actual equipment as of today.

For the first time in about 6 years Bacharach has analyzers and can also recommend without my students being disappointed.

We will carry both but will also tell the differences, pro and cons!! The only thing I haven't figured out yet is which one I can throw the farthest!!

[Jim Davis]

Testing light-off on gas furnaces is a waste of time if you don't care about:
1. misaligned burners
2. dirty burners
3. defective or misaligned ignitors
4. leaky gas valves

It didn't explode so that's okay with me, just isn't good enough!!

[hvaclover]

Whoa....we go two Genius Jim's.

[gravity]

holy cow. Jim Davis is back!

[Jim Davis]

holy cow. Jim Davis is back!
Never went away. Just waiting to see if any misinformation is being presented and I bit my tongue on the airflow one cause that's not my subject. Still trying to get my boss off the floor though.

Word to the wise, never buy an analyzer with the probe attached. That has been one of the biggest cause of failure of sensors when techs didn't disconnect them!!

[gravity]

Word to the wise, never buy an analyzer with the probe attached. That has been one of the biggest cause of failure of sensors when techs didn't disconnect them!!

good point Jim.

So bacharach is back in business?

I dont miss my old slow fyrite pro.

How have you been by the way?

[Jim Davis]

Doing good. Spent most of the summer writing new oil material. Getiing ready to go to Mechanical week in Shaumberg and do a Point/Counterpoint that should be crazy.


got standing room only in Baltimore next week and tons of requests for private in-house training so all is good.

And Bacharach is back!!

[chuckcrj]

Doing good. Spent most of the summer writing new oil material.
And a great job you did on it! Completely takes any guesswork out of oil burner diagnosis.

I just got a copy from my Service Manager who attended your class.

[kamersoutdoor]

Jim,
Are you suggesting the Bacharach over the 320?
Is the 327 better?
And last but not least... What air flow had you buttoned?

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[gravity]

sounds good. wish i could get my hands on the new oil book. the new company i am at does combustion only on oil. any gas we do is set at 3.5" w.c. ;(

[chuckcrj]

sounds good. wish i could get my hands on the new oil book. the new company i am at does combustion only on oil. any gas we do is set at 3.5" w.c. ;(
I'm sure Jim would send you a copy. I don't have a digital copy.

I bet they set all oil burners at 100 psi too.... :)

[gravity]

Do you know how hard it is to set a gas furnace at 3.5" and walk away.

I was talking to a older guy at my company about it and he saids to set it at 3.5" and no other. If they were to go back and find it at 7" or so i'd be in deep $#!t

[Jim Davis]

sounds good. wish i could get my hands on the new oil book. the new company i am at does combustion only on oil. any gas we do is set at 3.5" w.c. ;(

the book it not totally done yet. The Oil CO diagnostics are but final edit is still in process. There will be some techs in Baltimore next week that will get a copy of it. I am giving one copy to each company that attends. Probably not supposed to yet but I don't like to make people wait any longer then they have to.

[Jim Davis]

Jim,
Are you suggesting the Bacharach over the 320?
Is the 327 better?
And last but not least... What air flow had you buttoned?

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

The best thing about the 327 which is comparable to the 320 and Insight Plus, maybe just a little less, but the price is nice. We always include a Dwyer Draft Gauge because most built in draft gauges aren't sensitive enough and draft needs to be measured and watched the whole time we are testing on vented appliances.

Both Bacharach analyzers respond to CO much faster than the new Testo's. O2 about the same. 310 Testo needs to be avoided. The InTech is a nice inexpensive unit, around $700, we always include a Dwyer Draft Gauge. For extra $$ you can get Software and printers etc. but that is the same with both Bacharach and Testo.

[Jim Davis]

And a great job you did on it! Completely takes any guesswork out of oil burner diagnosis.

I just got a copy from my Service Manager who attended your class.

Don and Evan were great. Thanks Evan for the class post. Thanks for not mentioning how many paper cuts you got when I threw my material or how many bruises from tossing my equipment.

[jim bergmann]

Testing light-off on gas furnaces is a waste of time if you don't care about:
1. misaligned burners
2. dirty burners
3. defective or misaligned ignitors
4. leaky gas valves

It didn't explode so that's okay with me, just isn't good enough!!

All things that can be seen via visual inspection or found with a combustible gas leak detector. There is no need to subject the meter to a CO spike. It is simply not good for the CO cell and not good practice.

[Jim Davis]

All things that can be seen via visual inspection or found with a combustible gas leak detector. There is no need to subject the meter to a CO spike. It is simply not good for the CO cell and not good practice.

Us people with lots of hair don't stick it near flames for visual light-offs. To check for a gas leak on a condensing furnace gas valve you have to open up the burner box to get to the orifices. This could be determined by CO at shut-down also but the furnace has to light first.

Not in 27 years have I ever used anyone's analyzer that couldn't handle CO at light-off or any other time. I put them in car exhausts and if they can't handle it I recommend another meter, but thats for me to test, not my customers. If an analyzer could be ruined, I have tried everyway I know how and haven't been sucessful yet. At one time I had an analyzer that went to 100,000ppm. When my regular analyzers spiked at 2000ppm or 4000ppm I put it in the flue to see how high the CO went. Even at 100,000ppm I never lost a CO sensor in the past.

CO on oil can easily hit 10,000ppm at light-off, at Zero Smoke, but no meter reads that high anymore but the test is critical in diagnostics.

Bacharach, Testo, UEI, TPI, Wohler, E-Instruments etc., never failed to recover from CO spikes. Yeah, some slower than others, but always recovered if you keep them running. The key is to remove the hose assembly from the analzyer quickly, not the probe from the flue.

[jim bergmann]

That would be fine if manufactures were not using smart cells that record when the cell was over ranged. If you experence a cell failure, and it could happen, protecting the cell from spikes could be the difference between a free waranty repair and a declined free repair due to abuse of the cell.

[Jim Davis]

But I feal so intellugent when I outsmert inanimutt objects.

Where in the heck is spell check when you need it??

[itsiceman]

It's that time of year again :grin2: You guys crack me up and lots of good info too Thanks


That would be fine if manufactures were not using smart cells that record when the cell was over ranged. If you experence a cell failure, and it could happen, protecting the cell from spikes could be the difference between a free waranty repair and a declined free repair due to abuse of the cell.Is there anyone besides testo that use these smart cells? and any others that offer the length of time that testo offers?

[Jim Davis]

I have never seen a CO sensor on any analyzer, regardless of abuse, fail in less than 4 years. As far as I know, Testo is the only manufacturer that states they won't honor warranty if you accidently expose your sensor to over 4000ppm. Doesn't matter, it won't go bad anyway.

[itsiceman]

I have never seen a CO sensor on any analyzer, regardless of abuse, fail in less than 4 years. As far as I know, Testo is the only manufacturer that states they won't honor warranty if you accidently expose your sensor to over 4000ppm. Doesn't matter, it won't go bad anyway.
So it is other issues that kill sensors and if your aware of them you will not kill one but they are off the hook.
Typical from them in my experience and nice to know its a gimmick. Being worried about breaking one has stopped me from making the purchase for the times I would need one but I'll have to cross that one off the list of why not. Thanks

[hvaclover]

Testo .... Bacharach...so confused ....I need a new analyzer and it's a good thing TTT sells both.

Where does a guy go to get some basic schooling on combustion analysis?

I am not ready for NCI yet.

[Jim Davis]

Basic training will keep you out of most trouble and tell you how to test but odds are it doesn't make you any more money. Testing is great but it helps to know what number you are looking for, what's important about those specific numbers, exactly what they are telling you, whats wrong and how to fix it plus many other extras.

Basic training will tell you to follow Codes, but not what to do when they don't work or why they are mechanically unsound. Basic training won't tell you what information in manufacturers material is totally false. Basic training is politically correct. NCI's training is mechanically correct. I believe a life is more important than someones ego.

[Glenn Harrison]

Hey Jim D, just curious now that they have been out for a couple of years, what are you opinions/experiences with the current line of UEI combustion analyzers with no chemical O2 sensor?

[Jim Davis]

I have seen several UEI Eagle X CO2 analyzers in class. Still can't get the rep to come let me use it at my shop and compare it. They do have a nice 5 year warranty program but I have no idea what is going to happen then.

My problem is that the CO2 content of all fuels is different all over the country. Althought the CO2 measurement may be accurate it could be up to 20% off due to the btu content of the fuel. Not sure if it can calculate O2 correctly. Either my breath has really gotten bad or their calculation is a bit off.

If they are allowing everyone to field service them then that is a bonus they never had and would rank them above some others. Still waiting to do a fair evaluation. If they are consistent and dependable then I would have no problem recommending them, even if I don't sell them. I don't want anyone discourage about buying or using analyzer because there are a few bad ones in the mix.

[hvaclover]

Basic training will keep you out of most trouble and tell you how to test but odds are it doesn't make you any more money. Testing is great but it helps to know what number you are looking for, what's important about those specific numbers, exactly what they are telling you, whats wrong and how to fix it plus many other extras.

Basic training will tell you to follow Codes, but not what to do when they don't work or why they are mechanically unsound. Basic training won't tell you what information in manufacturers material is totally false. Basic training is politically correct. NCI's training is mechanically correct. I believe a life is more important than someones ego.

i hear what you say, but i would need the basic training just to prep me for NCI.


Also, want a Bacherach Com analyzer,,,but i don't know what to look for in necessary features.

Help me out, will 'ya?

BTW, you seen D. Habbitz lately?

[Jim Davis]

The Bacharach InTech is a great new inexpensive analyzer. Good response time, removable probe and field replaceable sensors. Only about $700.

Haven't seen D.

[kamersoutdoor]

So.......
Testo 320, or Bacharach insight pro........
I'm stuck

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[Jim Davis]

So.......
Testo 320, or Bacharach insight pro........
I'm stuck

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

Because of response time to CO I would go with the Bacharach Insight Plus, but there is nothing wrong with the Testo 320. Bacharach also offers a long life O2 sensor on their Insight.

The Bacharach Intech is definitely the best of the inexpensive analyzers.

[jim bergmann]

Here is an overview of the features of the new Insight Plus Analyzer

http://youtu.be/TqhL2RCzlMc

[hvaclover]

Looks like we got a Jedi Duel over com analyzers.

Both these guys are masters at their craft. Let's see if there is a definitive first place finisher.

[Hvac216]

Testing light-off on gas furnaces is a waste of time if you don't care about:
1. misaligned burners
2. dirty burners
3. defective or misaligned ignitors
4. leaky gas valves

It didn't explode so that's okay with me, just isn't good enough!!

What will a combustion analyzer tell you about these. Are there acceptable start up levels or what?

[chuckcrj]

What will a combustion analyzer tell you about these. Are there acceptable start up levels or what?
A combustion analyzer will tell you all that and more. But only if you know what the numbers are telling you. I highly recommend Jim Davis' 3 day class. You will be amazed at what you've been missing.

[Hvac216]

A combustion analyzer will tell you all that and more. But only if you know what the numbers are telling you. I highly recommend Jim Davis' 3 day class. You will be amazed at what you've been missing.

I took a class a couple years ago and know a lot of what it can do. I just don't know how you check those points with an analyzer. I will definitely check out the class. It sounds good.

[gravity]

yup....DAMN i can tell you about all those things too

[pacnw]

there was a reference to CO(O) in the 3 bar graph section, but it was CO in the trend graph.

which is the one that is more important, that is to say the below 100PPM in flue is acceptable?

CO(O) is reference to your outside or start up air location, 20.9%.

CO is the flue gas measurement- total CO produced, correct?

[Jim Davis]

there was a reference to CO(O) in the 3 bar graph section, but it was CO in the trend graph.

which is the one that is more important, that is to say the below 100PPM in flue is acceptable?

CO(O) is reference to your outside or start up air location, 20.9%.

CO is the flue gas measurement- total CO produced, correct?

What you actually measure is always more important than what the analyzer calculates. CO "as measured" less than 100ppm is good.

[Jim Davis]

Looks like we got a Jedi Duel over com analyzers.

Both these guys are masters at their craft. Let's see if there is a definitive first place finisher.

My hope is you guys finish first but I will never recommend anything that I consider sub-par just to make a sale. Many times over the years, even when I was a commission only salesman, I told customers if they were convinced they wanted to buy a certain item I felt was not in their best interest, to buy it somewhere else and don't call me and complain if they do. They called and complained anyway and said I wasn't convincing enough?

[mrfixinthangz]

Insite is allright, have both the 327 and insite.

[jim bergmann]

Both Bacharach analyzers respond to CO much faster than the new Testo's. O2 about the same.

Not exactly what I saw when I tested the units.

http://youtu.be/037QMuiz6AY

Obviously, you have to consider that the Intech was influenced by prompt NOx at light off because it does not have a NOx filter (optional accessory). The Testo 310 and the Insight plus both have NOx filters and read almost exactly the same, and saw about the same peak CO. They are all three good analyzers. The fixed probe on the Testo is not a big deal due to the short gas path. It clears out quickly. The 310 also has a 4000 ppm sensor.

[gravity]

nice video

[steve3871m]

Both Bacharach analyzers respond to CO much faster than the new Testo's. O2 about the same. 310 Testo needs to be avoided. The InTech is a nice inexpensive unit, around $700, we always include a Dwyer Draft Gauge. For extra $$ you can get Software and printers etc. but that is the same with both Bacharach and Testo.
Good info Jim, almost ready to buy the Testo 320. I want to get something new before the season hits hard. My TSI does have a new sensor though. Could keep it for back up. I think the pump is ready to go as the response time on the readings seems to be longer. Not sure how much longer parts will be available for the discontinued TSI.

I didn't even consider the Bacharach since I thought they had "older" technology than Testo. Worth the look before I put out the $$.

[steve3871m]

Jim B. Thanks for the videos!

[kamersoutdoor]

After watching the videos, and reading the experts posts, I have concluded to put my purchase towards the insight plus.......
Insight plus for me hands down :D
Can't wait
sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[martyinlincoln]

Jim B. Get the 320 video done yet? My 325M is having issues and custom made repair parts prices would be better spent on a new unit.

[Jim Davis]

Hey Jim D, just curious now that they have been out for a couple of years, what are you opinions/experiences with the current line of UEI combustion analyzers with no chemical O2 sensor?

Sorry for the delay, I have been on the road. And didn't have an answer until last week. Just met with the UEI rep and played with the UEI Eagle X. Has good response time, even with a longer hose 9" and all sensors are field changeable and calibrateable. It does tend to calculate O2 lower than it actually is, based on the O2 analyzers but that can easily be interpreted.

It does have a great warranty. Heck we might even sell them as an alternative.

[Jim Davis]

Jim B. Thanks for the videos!

Your other post must have a virus but anyway there is nothing wrong with the pump on your TSI that a cleaning won't fix. The pump can be taken apart and there are some flappers in there that get stuck. Just finger the flappers and put it back together and it will be fine. The pump is the exact same one that Testo uses.

[Jim Davis]

Apparently the posts I have made on here have made it all the way to Germany and has everyone riled up. Didn't know they read this site?

Not sure what I said other than the features on the new Testo 310 are not something contractors might want to deal with down the road. I said the 320 was fine.

I had to apologize at Comfortech today or at Mechanical Systems Week for my rude comments? Glad to know I am so important internationally now?? We still sell Testo(not the 310), and now again Bacharach and maybe even UEI or they have my blessing if you buy them from somone else like ?????? Tru-Tech???? Geeeeeeezzzz!!!!

[Glenn Harrison]

Sorry for the delay, I have been on the road. And didn't have an answer until last week. Just met with the UEI rep and played with the UEI Eagle X. Has good response time, even with a longer hose 9" and all sensors are field changeable and calibrateable. It does tend to calculate O2 lower than it actually is, based on the O2 analyzers but that can easily be interpreted.

It does have a great warranty. Heck we might even sell them as an alternative.


Thanks for the good report. I always have thought eeewww when I see UEI, but it looks like they have something good here.

[pacnw]

Apparently the posts I have made on here have made it all the way to Germany and has everyone riled up. Didn't know they read this site?

Not sure what I said other than the features on the new Testo 310 are not something contractors might want to deal with down the road. I said the 320 was fine.

I had to apologize at Comfortech today or at Mechanical Systems Week for my rude comments? Glad to know I am so important internationally now?? We still sell Testo(not the 310), and now again Bacharach and maybe even UEI or they have my blessing if you buy them from someone else like ?????? Tru-Tech???? Geeeeeeezzzz!!!!

I would not buy a unit that does not have individually replaceable components, either.

[ch4man]

Sorry for the delay, I have been on the road. And didn't have an answer until last week. Just met with the UEI rep and played with the UEI Eagle X. Has good response time, even with a longer hose 9" and all sensors are field changeable and calibrateable. It does tend to calculate O2 lower than it actually is, based on the O2 analyzers but that can easily be interpreted.

It does have a great warranty. Heck we might even sell them as an alternative.


hey Jim, long time.......finally got the company to get somes analyzers in, the eagle x was chosen. i like it. but can you give me a guide as to how far off the O2 reading might be? just off or is it a sliding scale kind of off?

[Jim Davis]

Hey Gas Man good to hear from you. I haven't had the opportunity to totally run the UEI through the mill but it looks like about .5% to 1% on the O2 and that could be up or down.
Not enough to mess anyone up for the most part. I look at O2 or CO2 as the distance we traveled. So if your starting O2 is 10% and your final O2 is 6% your traveled 4 O2's. If the O2 was 10.5% starting and your final O2 is 6.5%, you still improved 4 O2's. Depending on whether you adjusted fuel or air that would be a 4% to 8% improvement.

[itsiceman]

Jim did they just rough you up about your comments or did they fill you in on something they did differently to the 310 so it wouldn't have issues like similarly designed units that have a permanent attached probe? What was the problem you were seeing with other analyzers?

[Jim Davis]

Jim did they just rough you up about your comments or did they fill you in on something they did differently to the 310 so it wouldn't have issues like similarly designed units that have a permanent attached probe? What was the problem you were seeing with other analyzers?

When contractors complain about premature sensor failure I ask them if they disconnect the probel after use and most of the time the answer is no. When I get analyzer back for repair with bad O2 sensors the probe is usually attached. I demonstrate in every class how the probe holds water even after several minutes of post purge. No water in the trap and yet water in the probe. This can migrate into the unit while in storage and disable the sensors. Now in many cases if the sensors are dried out they can recover.

Their explanation is that there is less likely to be leaks if the probe is attached. If that was so wouldn't all units have permanently attached probes? I don't like it and I think it will cause problems or I have wasted a lot of years teaching guys to remove them after every use.

Just for the record I mis-quoted saying the Bacharachs are faster on CO than the new Testos. They are faster than the 327. The length of the probe has much to do with response time and the 310 has the shortest so in one case it will be faster than a unit with a longer probe.

[gravity]

Jim D. I love reading your posts. I need to buy myself a new analyzer. The old company provided it for me. I am poor. The new company doesnt do much CO testing. I would mainly be using it on oil and on families gas units. Which analyzer would you recommend a poor man to purchase?

[hearthman]

I'm still trying to envision what an apology from Jim would look like.:grin2: Hey, there's always a first for everything.

Thx for the Consumer Reports Jim.

I'm glad to see more and more mfrs. requiring combustion analysis for the initial setup. Did a Bosch Combi 100 mod/con a few weeks back and was tickled to see a whole section on CA setup. They even include a test port with plug on the exhaust vent collar. Hopefully more mfrs. will follow. I cannot help but think Jim Davis had something to do with this, if nothing else because of his legacy.

[gravity]

Hey Bob, how have you been?

[Jim Davis]

I'm still trying to envision what an apology from Jim would look like.:grin2: Hey, there's always a first for everything.

Thx for the Consumer Reports Jim.

I'm glad to see more and more mfrs. requiring combustion analysis for the initial setup. Did a Bosch Combi 100 mod/con a few weeks back and was tickled to see a whole section on CA setup. They even include a test port with plug on the exhaust vent collar. Hopefully more mfrs. will follow. I cannot help but think Jim Davis had something to do with this, if nothing else because of his legacy.

My Testo rep is my good friend for the past 25 years because he was also my Bacharach rep for almost 20 years. They kind of jumped on him too. I wasn't trying to discredit Testo, just state the facts as I have observed them, because I want you guys to be happy with what you buy from whomever. People would jump my butt if I ever mislead them.

If you would have seen me at Mechanical Systems week you would know that I am a certified nut in the session I gave with David Richardson. Hope they got a few pictures, my office did.

Always good to hear from you Bob. It is meeting caring brilliant people like you that adds extra satisfaction to what I do!!!

[Jim Davis]

Jim D. I love reading your posts. I need to buy myself a new analyzer. The old company provided it for me. I am poor. The new company doesnt do much CO testing. I would mainly be using it on oil and on families gas units. Which analyzer would you recommend a poor man to purchase?

Can't get much less expensive than the Bacharach Intech. Plus if you are doing oil it has a larger particulate filter and they will not void their warranty if your CO goes over 4000ppm.

[gravity]

sounds good. thanks!

[itsiceman]

I'm still trying to envision what an apology from Jim would look like.:grin2: Hey, there's always a first for everything.


"Sorry bout that" ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g1E43V5wc4

[patrick]

Jim B, I just bought the 320 (from you!) and had a few questions on its set up.

When setting up a measurement site what is the combustion site for? I saw where you can change the O2 and CO for the different combustion sites (1 through 4), why would you need to have different settings?

Does the barometric pressure, altitude and pressure absolute need to be accurate? Im usually anywhere from sea level to 1000 ft but it comes 2625.

I will probably have more questions, I havent had the chance to use it yet.

[gravity]

Just purchased the bacharach intech.

Not impressed with the sample probe. I like the gun handle feel better.

But oh well, It's gonna tell me how it's burning either way.

[hvac17011]

Just purchased the bacharach intech.

Not impressed with the sample probe. I like the gun handle feel better.

But oh well, It's gonna tell me how it's burning either way.


Gravity,

What other analyzers did you consider.

[gravity]

the fyrite insite pro(newer model) too much for my wallet (i used the older model at old company. it had a slow pump)

the testo 327(too much for my wallet) i used this one at my old company

the testo 320(too much for my wallet) but it has detachable hoses.

i do not like attached hoses. i also like fast readings.

[hvac17011]

Gravity,

I am thinking of getting an analyzer. Our shop sends that out every summer to get calibrated. They also used by techs that jam then in flue with #4 smoke. I was curious what annual costs you would expect if you were the only one using it. What is the deal with Bacharachs calibrated replaceable sensors. Thanks for your help

[Joehvac25]

the fyrite insite pro(newer model) too much for my wallet (i used the older model at old company. it had a slow pump)

the testo 327(too much for my wallet) i used this one at my old company

the testo 320(too much for my wallet) but it has detachable hoses.

i do not like attached hoses. i also like fast readings.

Now remember you said you would make a video! Lol


^^^^^^^^^ quoted the wrong one lol

[gravity]

Gravity,

I am thinking of getting an analyzer. Our shop sends that out every summer to get calibrated. They also used by techs that jam then in flue with #4 smoke. I was curious what annual costs you would expect if you were the only one using it. What is the deal with Bacharachs calibrated replaceable sensors. Thanks for your help

If I'm the only one using it, It will be cheap annual costs because i know how to use it.

You can shove them in whatever you want. If you notice it being spiked you should immediately unplug the hoses from the analyzer and let it purge.

Bacharachs BSmart sensors are pretty nice. They are calibrated from the factory. You just take the cover off the back of the analyzer, pull out the sensor and pop the new one in. Pretty simple.

The sensors range from $150.00 - $300.00 online. you would have to shop them.

You can also get your own gas and calibrate them.

You will need a sensor every few years IMHO. Some will tell you different. If you give a good purge on shutdown and keep the analyzer dry, you should have no problems with your sensors.

Leaving your hoses hooked up and getting the sensors wet is what kills them.

Hope this helps. Look at some of Jim Davis' posts. He is a wizard with analyzers. He can also make them fly.

[gravity]

Now remember you said you would make a video! Lol


^^^^^^^^^ quoted the wrong one lol


Thanks for the reminder. I unfortunately do not have gas appliances.

Once I go to my In-Laws I will make a video of her furnace.

[Joehvac25]

Thanks for the reminder. I unfortunately do not have gas appliances.

Once I go to my In-Laws I will make a video of her furnace.

All jokeing aside I would really like to see it, I feel like I understand CA to some extent but maybe not fully. I want to get Jim Davis to my area but have to talk to one of our suppliers.

[gravity]

Have you seen the video Jim Bergmann made on TruTechTools website?

I might have a video laying around let me see if i can find one.

[gravity]

I also don't have a video camera so i dont know how well it will be. At the last i will have the video on the analyzer and you will just hear me in the background.

I will underfire the furnace, overfire the furnace, and try to misalign a burner or make it not burn right.

[Joehvac25]

Have you seen the video Jim Bergmann made on TruTechTools website?

I might have a video laying around let me see if i can find one.

I did see one roughly 1/2 hour long on YouTube. Was that it?

[gravity]

this one

http://youtu.be/L7Q8OhthQd8

[gravity]

Just got the Bacharach Intech in the mail. Haven't been able to shove it in flues yet. Not impressed with the new probe assembly, does not have a probe stop, no extra filters, hoses don't use the metal ends like on the insight. It is made in the USA though.

I guess thats what i get for not spending the extra couple $$$ on the insight.

Can't believe the probe stop costs $52.00!! anyone have suggestions on what to use instead?

[Joehvac25]

Just got the Bacharach Intech in the mail. Haven't been able to shove it in flues yet. Not impressed with the new probe assembly, does not have a probe stop, no extra filters, hoses don't use the metal ends like on the insight. It is made in the USA though.

I guess thats what i get for not spending the extra couple $$$ on the insight.

Lol don't you hate buyers remorse, I'm that guy that would by the cheap one so I had money to play with!

[chuckcrj]

Our company bought one of them too. I have used it a few times, and it seems like a decent meter. Fast response.

Numbers are small and hard to read.

[gravity]

I watched the video Jim B made. but he didn't show the probe or hose connections. lol

i can't believe they really skimped me on a probe stop.

[chuckcrj]

i can't believe they really skimped me on a probe stop.

Same here!!!!

[gravity]

Does anyone know if the testo probe stop is the same diameter as the intech probe?

The new sample probe on the intech looks smaller.

I'm also to lazy to go out and measure it.

The testo probe stop is only $22. i think i can afford that

[Jim Davis]

I recommend drilling smaller holes. I never use a probe stop. I use to take them out of kits and put them in my desk because they get hot and are hard to cool down. Check with me and I may make a deal. Where did you get your Intech?

Cotton balls and yarn make great filters and cost much less than filters. At least it is after the water trap and not before it, so it stays dry.

Rubber hoses make much better connections than metal ones.

[gravity]

Thanks for the input Jim.

I got it from TTT

I finally got to use it today

2 RTU. one was burning good, in the 6%o2 range with 40ppm CO. but low flue temp. about 270* had 115,000input with 6tons of airflow.

other rtu was over 2000ppm CO with pretty blue flames. low o2. burner plates infested with stinkbugs. probably millions of stinkbugs in the heat exchanger.

I wish there was something out there that eats these damn bugs.

[gravity]

do u wrap the cottonball with the yarn im assuming?

[chuckcrj]

I recommend drilling smaller holes. I never use a probe stop. I use to take them out of kits and put them in my desk because they get hot and are hard to cool down. Check with me and I may make a deal. Where did you get your Intech?

Cotton balls and yarn make great filters and cost much less than filters. At least it is after the water trap and not before it, so it stays dry.

Rubber hoses make much better connections than metal ones.

Smaller holes is a good idea, bit what if the last guy drilled a 3/8 hole?:(

[valdelocc]

Smaller holes is a good idea, bit what if the last guy drilled a 3/8 hole?:(

poor chucky got big holes:grin2: I feel bad for you cause little holes are much better! must be a very sad day for poor little chuky:grin2:

[gravity]

Smaller holes is a good idea, bit what if the last guy drilled a 3/8 hole?:(

Put a plug in it and drill another hole to your liking :whistle:

[valdelocc]

Put a plug in it and drill another hole to your liking :whistle:
thats an awesome idea! You're good.'' ``Well, I ... ``No! You're good!you you You're good.:grin2:

[gravity]

HAHA.....It's a multi-tap flue pipe. Choose the hole that fits your probe......

[jjou812]

I read somewhere that the 320 is made in germany and the 310 is made in china. Can anyone confirm this? I am considering replacing my 5.5 year old TSI 6130.

Has anyone seen this problem on the TSI: The readings sometimes don't change when I insert the probe in the flue, even though the sensors are recent, the pump is pumping, and the "plumbing" inside the meter seems to be okay. No error code. And yes I always disconnect the hose when not in use.

[chuckcrj]

I read somewhere that the 320 is made in germany and the 310 is made in china. Can anyone confirm this? I am considering replacing my 5.5 year old TSI 6130.

Has anyone seen this problem on the TSI: The readings sometimes don't change when I insert the probe in the flue, even though the sensors are recent, the pump is pumping, and the "plumbing" inside the meter seems to be okay. No error code. And yes I always disconnect the hose when not in use.

I will gladly buy the TSI from you. Sometimes the pump diaghrams sticks and you have to take it apart and clean them.

[hearthman]

If you're worried about repeated holes in PVC or want a better access port, try this:

cut in a tee on the vertical leg just off the appliance and glue it in. Install a bushing with internal thread or use a reducing tee with internal thread. Just try to get the snout down to about 3/4" internal thread. Install removable pvc plug.

Two options for testing- you can carry a threaded plug of your own with a hole for your analyzer pre-drilled through the middle or, use a Fernco cap with the hole punched in it. Apply temporary plug or cap, test, then reinstall threaded plug. AHJ shouldn't have a problem with that. I like the Fernco option as its quick and holds my probe better.

[Hvac216]

I read somewhere that the 320 is made in germany and the 310 is made in china. Can anyone confirm this? I am considering replacing my 5.5 year old TSI 6130.

Has anyone seen this problem on the TSI: The readings sometimes don't change when I insert the probe in the flue, even though the sensors are recent, the pump is pumping, and the "plumbing" inside the meter seems to be okay. No error code. And yes I always disconnect the hose when not in use.

Can't say about the 310 but I believe the 320 is made in Germany. I didn't look for a "made in" on it but half of my paperwork on it including the calibration sheet are in German.

[Jim Davis]

I read somewhere that the 320 is made in germany and the 310 is made in china. Can anyone confirm this? I am considering replacing my 5.5 year old TSI 6130.

Has anyone seen this problem on the TSI: The readings sometimes don't change when I insert the probe in the flue, even though the sensors are recent, the pump is pumping, and the "plumbing" inside the meter seems to be okay. No error code. And yes I always disconnect the hose when not in use.

You will be upset if you switch analyzers. As Chuck said the pump just needs cleaning by taking it apart. There are little valves in there that get stuck. If it needs repair and calibration you need to send it to me at home. I calibrate and fix the pump for minimum cost.

[Hvac216]

You will be upset if you switch analyzers. As Chuck said the pump just needs cleaning by taking it apart. There are little valves in there that get stuck. If it needs repair and calibration you need to send it to me at home. I calibrate and fix the pump for minimum cost.

Jim, are you offering the nci class in the cleveland area anytime soon.

[Jim Davis]

Jim, are you offering the nci class in the cleveland area anytime soon.

Well it depends on what you mean by soon. There is one scheduled in March. I am available for questions and advice anytime.

[jjou812]

I took out the pump but couldn't figure out how to get it apart without breaking it. Is there a way of squeezing it to separate the halves?

[Jim Davis]

I took out the pump but couldn't figure out how to get it apart without breaking it. Is there a way of squeezing it to separate the halves?

There are four legs that snap into the end of the pump. You have to stick a heavy paperclip in the hole in the end and loosed one side carefully and then the other while trying not to break the tabs. It is simple once you do it. Worst case send it to me and I can fix it.

[gpjazz1023]

Well it depends on what you mean by soon. There is one scheduled in March. I am available for questions and advice anytime.

When and where is this course scheduled in march ? And do you have some info on registering to attend ? Thanks

[Jim Davis]

When and where is this course scheduled in march ? And do you have some info on registering to attend ? Thanks

Usually the class will be at our training center in Sheffield Lake. You can check our website for the details for registration or just call the office.

[gpjazz1023]

Usually the class will be at our training center in Sheffield Lake. You can check our website for the details for registration or just call the office.

Ok thanks. What is the website address ?

[Hvac216]

https://www.nationalcomfortinstitute.com/index.cfm?

[jjou812]

Thanks. The pump came apart easily. I saw no dirt or any other problem with the diaphragm or reeds. I put it back together and now it works fine. I wonder what I did that fixed it.

Thanks again for your help.

[jlanesey]

Has anyone had to change the thermocouple on the 327? Mine stopped working new one arrives Monday.