The Hag - America FIRST

[dbx]

Check out Merle's website
http://www.merlehaggard.com/

[keither]

Good video and tune. I agree. Lets solve the problem once and for all. It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.

[oloenneker]

It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.

And it's precicely attitudes like this, that get the Islamic extremists blood boiling...Attitudes like this promote the Terrorists, and give them justifications for the acts they do.

I guess you would like an eternal war? Because that is what you will have if you nuke ANYONE in the middle east. Go ahead and confirm their fears about the USA...


Keither; the sponsor of terrorism against America...















What a fuçking moron.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by oloenneker


It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.

And it's precicely attitudes like this, that get the Islamic extremists blood boiling...Attitudes like this promote the Terrorists, and give them justifications for the acts they do.

I guess you would like an eternal war? Because that is what you will have if you nuke ANYONE in the middle east. Go ahead and confirm their fears about the USA...


Keither; the sponsor of terrorism against America...















What a fuçking moron.


Who, exactly, did we nuke to cause them to hit the TWC, Pentagon, and attempt a 4th impact on another target?












Yer right, ole. You ARE a moron.

[ralphtheplumber]

Originally posted by oloenneker
And it's precicely attitudes like this, that get the Islamic extremists blood boiling...
So what?

They don't like my attitude? I don't like theirs either.


Originally posted by oloenneker
Attitudes like this promote the Terrorists, and give them justifications for the acts they do.
They're justified in attacking us based on our attitude?

Is that what you just said?

Actually, that's exactly what it says in the quran.


Originally posted by oloenneker
I guess you would like an eternal war? Because that is what you will have if you nuke ANYONE in the middle east. Go ahead and confirm their fears about the USA...
Fear is good.

You do realize that these people are still mad about things that happened 1000 years ago, right?

And that eternal war is pretty much what islam is all about.. ?

[tonys]

Originally posted by oloenneker


It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.

And it's precicely attitudes like this, that get the Islamic extremists blood boiling...Attitudes like this promote the Terrorists, and give them justifications for the acts they do.

I guess you would like an eternal war? Because that is what you will have if you nuke ANYONE in the middle east. Go ahead and confirm their fears about the USA...




oleo-

wake-up and smell the jihad, dude.

[techrider]

I agree with you Keither. An added bonus would be how easy it would be to see oil under the sheet of glass!!!!!

[scrogdog]

Well, I'm all for a hard line on terror, but I hardly think nukes are the answer. Terrorists don't defend things, they defend ideals. Sick ones... but still.

Nuke them in to the stone age... ok, blow off some steam at the thought of it. Good. Now... feel better?

I hardly think the destruction of the entire world economy would be an acceptable result regardless of other factors.

[tonys]

Originally posted by keither
Good video and tune. I agree. Lets solve the problem once and for all. It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.


how was it...taking 4-years to complete the 4th grade?

[chillbilly]

How many years were you exposed to benzine?

[rob10]

Originally posted by oloenneker


It's time to nuke Iraq, Iran and everysh1tstan and return home.

And it's precicely attitudes like this, that get the Islamic extremists blood boiling...Attitudes like this promote the Terrorists, and give them justifications for the acts they do.

I guess you would like an eternal war? Because that is what you will have if you nuke ANYONE in the middle east. Go ahead and confirm their fears about the USA...


Keither; the sponsor of terrorism against America...















What a fuçking moron.
Maybe they will get the hint!! :eek:

[dbx]

CRIPE......
Freaking amazing me how some of you can take a post about a music video and turn it into a flame war.

How many of you even watched the video that is the topic of this thread.

I admit that I consume way too much caffine, but you guys are way overboard.

[oloenneker]

Originally posted by dbx
CRIPE......
Freaking amazing me how some of you can take a post about a music video and turn it into a flame war.

How many of you even watched the video that is the topic of this thread.

I admit that I consume way too much caffine, but you guys are way overboard.

welcome to ARP....

[r404a]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bootlen
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by oloenneker
[B][quote]




















Who, exactly, did we nuke to cause them to hit the TWC, Pentagon, and attempt a 4th impact on another target?




Not Iraq. Oh wait...they didn't have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks and we STILL invaded them....and boobs like Keither say stupid things like "Nuke em all". Keither and Corny have watched too many Rambo movies and thank God between the two of them there isn't enougn grey matter to get a position as a janitor in a Government office, let alone a position. Put the emotion aside for a second read what Ole is actually writting.



404

[bootlen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by r404a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bootlen
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oloenneker
[quote]




















Who, exactly, did we nuke to cause them to hit the TWC, Pentagon, and attempt a 4th impact on another target?




Not Iraq. Oh wait...they didn't have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks and we STILL invaded them....and boobs like Keither say stupid things like "Nuke em all". Keither and Corny have watched too many Rambo movies and thank God between the two of them there isn't enougn grey matter to get a position as a janitor in a Government office, let alone a position. Put the emotion aside for a second read what Ole is actually writting.



404












Nope. Ties between Iraq and Al Queda have been found. They are indirect but definitley there.

[oloenneker]

Nope. Ties between Iraq and Al Queda have been found. They are indirect but definitley there.

Can you cite those connections? What, some made up meeting in Prauge? Come on...

Saddam and Bin Laden where enemies....


We all know, and even the President has said, that there where no connections between al Queada and Saddam's Iraq...

Where do you get your info from Bootsie? The Enquirer?

But as usual, most you missed the point of my first post.

Extremeists are upset with the US because of our imperialist ways in the Middle East. They have no Army or Air Force, all they have is Terrorism. It's their only resort if they want a war with us. Now having said that, consider that perhaps, the actions and the hypocracy of the US foreign policy in the ME causes the reactions we are now seeing in the reigon. It does not help either having extremists in our country that suggest that we should just bomb those people into oblivion...

Just like a poster I once saw, it had a picture of Osama's head on the famous Uncle Sam pictures, and it said: I want you to invade Iraq, so I can build up more supporters for al Queada.

How right that poster was, Just look at Iraq now. Total anarchy.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by oloenneker


Nope. Ties between Iraq and Al Queda have been found. They are indirect but definitley there.

Can you cite those connections? What, some made up meeting in Prauge? Come on...

Saddam and Bin Laden where enemies....


We all know, and even the President has said, that there where no connections between al Queada and Saddam's Iraq...

Where do you get your info from Bootsie? The Enquirer?

But as usual, most you missed the point of my first post.

Extremeists are upset with the US because of our imperialist ways in the Middle East. They have no Army or Air Force, all they have is Terrorism. It's their only resort if they want a war with us. Now having said that, consider that perhaps, the actions and the hypocracy of the US foreign policy in the ME causes the reactions we are now seeing in the reigon. It does not help either having extremists in our country that suggest that we should just bomb those people into oblivion...

Just like a poster I once saw, it had a picture of Osama's head on the famous Uncle Sam pictures, and it said: I want you to invade Iraq, so I can build up more supporters for al Queada.

How right that poster was, Just look at Iraq now. Total anarchy.

Ya still don't read very well. The connections were indirect. The had (have) common goals and agreements/transfer of support, etc. were made. It'll all come to light before it's all said and done. Problem is, it may be too late at that point.

[geerair]

Originally posted by bootlen


Ya still don't read very well. The connections were indirect. The had (have) common goals and agreements/transfer of support, etc. were made. It'll all come to light before it's all said and done. Problem is, it may be too late at that point. Well you see bootie has this secret decoder ring. It allows him pluck intelligence from the air, intelligence known only to him.


The CIA and FBI have no evidence of these common goals, agreements/transfers of support etc. They need to get them a bootie secret decoder ring.

[oloenneker]

Ya still don't read very well. The connections were indirect. The had (have) common goals and agreements/transfer of support, etc. were made. It'll all come to light before it's all said and done. Problem is, it may be too late at that point.

So, according to what you just wrote, you don't know either. What a bunch of chickensh!t!! You know that there is/where no connection with Saddam and al-Queda, so instead to admiting that you are wrong, you pussyfoot around the issue by stating that "we'll see in the end"...

Bootsie, you are delusional.

[markettech]

So..........what's the answer then? I see you bashing others opinions - what should we do?

Do we pull out of Iraq and wait for the terrorists to kill more innocent Americans on our soil?

In MY opinion - we as Americans will be the enemy and the Muslims will try to destroy us if they cannot convert us. Question is do we want to be proactive or reactive?

I wonder, does anyone really think that pulling out of the ME will change anything on a global scale for the better?

[oloenneker]

Originally posted by markettech

So..........what's the answer then? I see you bashing others opinions - what should we do?

Well, fist of all, the US should concentrate on DEFENSE, rather than OFFENSE. Pull all our troops from ALL outlying bases. There is no need for the US to have outlying bases. The US should become more neutral, and in turn only act militarily in event that do not involve the denense our our land, should only be dont in a coalition of other nations. Concentrate on military issues that only threaten our land directly. Convey aid to any country that is attempting or extablishing a democratic government process regardless of it's outcome. This reduced the amount of "puppet" governments that the US is fond of creating to control a reigon. The US has been doing that in the Middle east for over 50 years now.




Do we pull out of Iraq and wait for the terrorists to kill more innocent Americans on our soil?


If we cease to give the extremeists reasons to hate the US, they will have no gripe against the US. There will always be fanatics, on both sides of the aisle, and the US is not "innocent" in this either.
But, if we keep on killing or allowing the killings of innocent people in the Middle East, there is no hope. It will be eternal war, something Hitler was attempting to do during WWII...Are you also for eternal war?



In MY opinion - we as Americans will be the enemy and the Muslims will try to destroy us if they cannot convert us. Question is do we want to be proactive or reactive?


Quite to the contatrary, Mulims are people just like you and I. They just want to live in peace, raise their children, prosper and worship how they choose. You very ideal that "every" muslim want to kill us is mirroring the American Fanaticals approach to this. We call them "Axis of Evil" and they call us "the Great Satan"... the problem is that BOTH sides are uninformed about one another.
Bombs will not solve the situation, only diplomacy will. The more we bomb them, the more they will have more cause for blowing up our airplanes, subways, etc. etc... Revenge never begets revenge. It becomes a circular conflict, that becomes "eternal war"... the outcome is grim at best for both sides.

I would rather live in peace, and I'll bet you a gazillion $$ that is exactly what the average person living in the Middle East wants as well. Dont let the actions of a few fanatics influence your judgement of an entire religon. The people responsible for attacking us shall be caught and punished for their crimes, not an entire religon.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by oloenneker


Originally posted by markettech

So..........what's the answer then? I see you bashing others opinions - what should we do?

Well, fist of all, the US should concentrate on DEFENSE, rather than OFFENSE. Pull all our troops from ALL outlying bases. There is no need for the US to have outlying bases. The US should become more neutral, and in turn only act militarily in event that do not involve the denense our our land, should only be dont in a coalition of other nations. Concentrate on military issues that only threaten our land directly. Convey aid to any country that is attempting or extablishing a democratic government process regardless of it's outcome. This reduced the amount of "puppet" governments that the US is fond of creating to control a reigon. The US has been doing that in the Middle east for over 50 years now.




Do we pull out of Iraq and wait for the terrorists to kill more innocent Americans on our soil?


If we cease to give the extremeists reasons to hate the US, they will have no gripe against the US. There will always be fanatics, on both sides of the aisle, and the US is not "innocent" in this either.
But, if we keep on killing or allowing the killings of innocent people in the Middle East, there is no hope. It will be eternal war, something Hitler was attempting to do during WWII...Are you also for eternal war?



In MY opinion - we as Americans will be the enemy and the Muslims will try to destroy us if they cannot convert us. Question is do we want to be proactive or reactive?


Quite to the contatrary, Mulims are people just like you and I. They just want to live in peace, raise their children, prosper and worship how they choose. You very ideal that "every" muslim want to kill us is mirroring the American Fanaticals approach to this. We call them "Axis of Evil" and they call us "the Great Satan"... the problem is that BOTH sides are uninformed about one another.
Bombs will not solve the situation, only diplomacy will. The more we bomb them, the more they will have more cause for blowing up our airplanes, subways, etc. etc... Revenge never begets revenge. It becomes a circular conflict, that becomes "eternal war"... the outcome is grim at best for both sides.

I would rather live in peace, and I'll bet you a gazillion $$ that is exactly what the average person living in the Middle East wants as well. Dont let the actions of a few fanatics influence your judgement of an entire religon. The people responsible for attacking us shall be caught and punished for their crimes, not an entire religon.

Freakin' idiot.

All of Europe was gettin' their butts kicked 65 years ago and we had to bail 'em out. Now, ole and his European military expertise wants to advise us on how to fight a war (or more accurately, not fight it).

We already know you Europeans know how NOT to fight a war. Now shut up, fer cryin' out loud.

[chillbilly]

Yeah bootsie, unfortunately nekkie is as disillusioned about the ME as greer is.
These guys think that the ME is comprised of nothing but peace loving people from Pleasantville.
This is the mantra of the bleeding heart....
They don't understand the threat or it's implications.
Governments that endorse annihilation, torture and killing of their own, and deny basic human rights for their own citizens, certainly aren't going to give a fig about America or their own regional neighbors.

One doesn't need a third eye or even a decoder ring to understand the implications of fanatical terrorism in the ME and elsewhere.

Keep trying greer...you'll figure it out....not.

[oloenneker]

Bootsie and Sillibilly; you guys are the idiots... I guess your slot gets all wet thinking about eternal war, doesnt it? Especially since you are not the guys that are going to fight this eternal war...




Keep sniffing the freon like you have been, and don't forget to vote Republican this November....Your're in the minority.

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by oloenneker
Bootsie and Sillibilly; you guys are the idiots... I guess your slot gets all wet thinking about eternal war, doesnt it? Especially since you are not the guys that are going to fight this eternal war...




Keep sniffing the freon like you have been, and don't forget to vote Republican this November....Your're in the minority.



Just what elections are you referring to? Give us a decent Democrat to back and I'll sign up.

[oloenneker]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by oloenneker
Bootsie and Sillibilly; you guys are the idiots... I guess your slot gets all wet thinking about eternal war, doesnt it? Especially since you are not the guys that are going to fight this eternal war...




Keep sniffing the freon like you have been, and don't forget to vote Republican this November....Your're in the minority.



Just what elections are you referring to? Give us a decent Democrat to back and I'll sign up.

I would too...

[tonys]

Originally posted by chillbilly
How many years were you exposed to benzine?


every time I fill-up my Bimmer...

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by oloenneker


Nope. Ties between Iraq and Al Queda have been found. They are indirect but definitley there.

Can you cite those connections? What, some made up meeting in Prauge? Come on...

Saddam and Bin Laden where enemies....


We all know, and even the President has said, that there where no connections between al Queada and Saddam's Iraq...

Where do you get your info from Bootsie? The Enquirer?

But as usual, most you missed the point of my first post.

Extremeists are upset with the US because of our imperialist ways in the Middle East. They have no Army or Air Force, all they have is Terrorism. It's their only resort if they want a war with us. Now having said that, consider that perhaps, the actions and the hypocracy of the US foreign policy in the ME causes the reactions we are now seeing in the reigon. It does not help either having extremists in our country that suggest that we should just bomb those people into oblivion...

Just like a poster I once saw, it had a picture of Osama's head on the famous Uncle Sam pictures, and it said: I want you to invade Iraq, so I can build up more supporters for al Queada.

How right that poster was, Just look at Iraq now. Total anarchy.

Bin Laden and Hussien were enemies huh? I don't even know where to begin with pre school cosmic puke like that.

Were Stalin and Hitler enemies?

Who are we fighting in Iraq? A soveriegn nation or pockets of Iranian sponsored terrorists?

How do we fight the terrorists?

Are you going to (with a straight face) continue to maintain that there was no tie between Hussien, France, Russia, Germany, the U.N. and Bin Laden?

Man, all this unrest and terrorism in the Middle East started when Bush invaded Iraq.

Holy Cow, a mind is a terrible thing to waste Oloe.

[techrider]

Someone give me a term for someone who renounces their citizenship of one country and pledges to another!!!!

[bootlen]

Originally posted by daytonafan


Were Stalin and Hitler enemies?




Well, actually, they were. Maybe you meant Hitler and Mussolini.

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by daytonafan


Were Stalin and Hitler enemies?




Well, actually, they were. Maybe you meant Hitler and Mussolini.

No, I meant Hitler and Stalin.

Oloennker used as one of his arguments against the war that Hussein and Bin Laden were enemies so Hussein could not be linked to terrorism.

My point is "so what". If we are fighting a global war on terrorism, don't we need to fight them both?

If we can use one to destroy the other, should we not?

I believe we are fighting Iranian backed terrorists in Iraq right now. Our media calls them "insurgents". Iran knows this and they know about Geer and Oloe's crowd over here who put partisan politics above national defense.

Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, Hussein....what does it matter? They all need to be dealt with whether they are buddies or not.

[chillbilly]

Yes daytona, you are correct.
The insurgents are of Iranian, Syrian, etc, etc, proxy and getting rid of ANY leaders who are committed to destroying their neighbors and committing acts of terror against the free world have to be dealt with.

The political grandstanding and gamesmanship you read here from these guys is dangerous and if things go their way, the fallout will be enormous.

[oloenneker]

Originally posted by Daytonafan

Bin Laden and Hussien were enemies huh? I don't even know where to begin with pre school cosmic puke like that.

Hmm... I guess you don't know your facts. And as a matter of fact, Bin Laden wanted to use Mujahadin soilders to remove Saddam from Kuwait, but the Saudi's allready had made an alliance with the USA. This alliance is actually what sparked OBL's hatred for the USA.


Were Stalin and Hitler enemies?

Uhh... Yeah dude! Who do you think Hitlers army was fighting on the eastern front? The Chinese?



Who are we fighting in Iraq? A soveriegn nation or pockets of Iranian sponsored terrorists?

We are not fighting anymore, we are "keeping the peace"... Basically the US military is acting as the police force in Iraq. Many of the conflicts that our troops are facing in Iraq are common criminals that attempting to establish organized crime syndicates and potential war lords. If there are ties to the Iranian government in the actions, they have yet to be proven. This is why we need to pull our troops and the Iraqi people figure it out. Bush is never going to do this, because it means his cronies will not have access to the unlimited profits that lile in control of such a country, and I am not even talking about the oil yet either.


How do we fight the terrorists?

If they remain in Iraq, and our troops are not there, we dont have to fight them. If our troops remain, they become targets for terrorist violence. As long as our troops remain there, the more terrorists that produces. Do you not see the paralell between the two? Perhaps you do not.



Are you going to (with a straight face) continue to maintain that there was no tie between Hussien, France, Russia, Germany, the U.N. and Bin Laden?

There sure where ties between France, Germany, Russia and Iraq. They where going to buy Oil from Iraq... That means oil being bought with Euros rather than Dollars. Here is the possible REAL reason for the need for "regime change" in Iraq... Now the ties to Al-Queda and those nations, I would like to see how you are going to tie those together...


Man, all this unrest and terrorism in the Middle East started when Bush invaded Iraq.


No. Where id you get that idea? Think more along the lines of Isreal, and 1948..


Holy Cow, a mind is a terrible thing to waste Oloe.


It is a shame, isn't it? How do you cope with your self??

[chillbilly]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oloenneker

Hmm... I guess you don't know your facts. And as a matter of fact, Bin Laden wanted to use Mujahadin soilders to remove Saddam from Kuwait, but the Saudi's allready had made an alliance with the USA. This alliance is actually what sparked OBL's hatred for the USA.
__________________________________________________ _______
What a croc. OBL's hatred of the USA far preceded the gulf war. Do some research and use your spell check.



Uhh... Yeah dude! Who do you think Hitlers army was fighting on the eastern front? The Chinese?
__________________________________________________ _________
The point, which seems to elude you still, is that their idealogies were very similar.
In fact, the USA and her friends were not thrilled about having to align with Stalin either....... dude.



We are not fighting anymore, we are "keeping the peace"...
__________________________________________________ ________
Uh yeah, sure.



Basically the US military is acting as the police force in Iraq.
__________________________________________________ ________
Wrong. The USA is still fighting an offensive war in the middle east,on several fronts, while continually training the Iraqi Army. Guess you missed all the briefings.



Many of the conflicts that our troops are facing in Iraq are common criminals that attempting to establish organized crime syndicates and potential war lords.
__________________________________________________ _______
Most "civil violence" is being perpetrated by outside proxy.




If there are ties to the Iranian government in the actions, they have yet to be proven.
__________________________________________________ ________
LOL There are more than a few Generals on the ground in the middle east who would laugh in your face if you spouted this type of stupidity at them.



This is why we need to pull our troops and the Iraqi people figure it out.
__________________________________________________ ______
Figure what out, Einstein? There are only 6 million Iraqis that have already figured out they don't want to live with an oppressive regime that threatens it's neighbors, kills it's dissenters and slaughters other tribal factions in the country.



Bush is never going to do this, because it means his cronies will not have access to the unlimited profits that lile in control of such a country, and I am not even talking about the oil yet either.
__________________________________________________ _______
What a croc of ****. You're still buying all this cut and paste garbage. So, tell me genius, why did the preceding democratic liberal activist president feel the need to adhere to sanctions and attack Iraq? Was it done for his cronies and oil?
Do you understand what regional destabilzation means?



If they remain in Iraq, and our troops are not there, we dont have to fight them.
__________________________________________________ _______
Yes, and the atrocities will be multiplied, the terrorist training and plotting grounds will become the norm again, and the citizens who have mandated change will be killed or become refugees.
Another shining example of why liberal democratic weenies should NEVER administrate foreign policy.



If our troops remain, they become targets for terrorist violence. As long as our troops remain there, the more terrorists that produces. Do you not see the paralell between the two? Perhaps you do not.
__________________________________________________ _______

If the Iraqis are abandoned in favor of popular opinion polls and political grandstanding, the region will become severely destabilized, terrorist factions will multiply to attempt to gain state control, and the entire region will be in chaos.
"Withdrawal of our troops at this point in time would be a disaster".
You want to think there is chaos now? Wait and see what will happen if Iraq is abandoned and left to defend herself when she's not ready.
Duh.

Search American history and you will find that America needed the same type of support to finally discourage the British and EARN her freedom.
Here's the rub for you whiny little liberals.
Freedom and democracy for a republic ruled by her citizens must be earned.






No. Where id you get that idea? Think more along the lines of Isreal, and 1948..
__________________________________________________ ________
Nah, we'll leave that type of "thinking" for dumbasses to ponder.
The fact is that Arabs were absentee landlords who were more than willing to sell their land to the Jews.
The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land aquisition were baseless.
In fact, many leaders of the Arab Nationalist Movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to the Jews.

The Jewish people cultivated the land and then the Arabs wanted the cultivated land back after the Jews built it into the beautiful state that is Israel.
Go figure.






It is a shame, isn't it? How do you cope with your self??
__________________________________________________ ________

What is a shame is that you appear on this site mixing half-truth with your own juvenile opinion and then attempt to present this crap as factual content.




Pathetic.

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by oloenneker

Originally posted by Daytonafan

Bin Laden and Hussien were enemies huh? I don't even know where to begin with pre school cosmic puke like that.

Hmm... I guess you don't know your facts. And as a matter of fact, Bin Laden wanted to use Mujahadin soilders to remove Saddam from Kuwait, but the Saudi's allready had made an alliance with the USA. This alliance is actually what sparked OBL's hatred for the USA.


Were Stalin and Hitler enemies?

Uhh... Yeah dude! Who do you think Hitlers army was fighting on the eastern front? The Chinese?



Who are we fighting in Iraq? A soveriegn nation or pockets of Iranian sponsored terrorists?

We are not fighting anymore, we are "keeping the peace"... Basically the US military is acting as the police force in Iraq. Many of the conflicts that our troops are facing in Iraq are common criminals that attempting to establish organized crime syndicates and potential war lords. If there are ties to the Iranian government in the actions, they have yet to be proven. This is why we need to pull our troops and the Iraqi people figure it out. Bush is never going to do this, because it means his cronies will not have access to the unlimited profits that lile in control of such a country, and I am not even talking about the oil yet either.


How do we fight the terrorists?

If they remain in Iraq, and our troops are not there, we dont have to fight them. If our troops remain, they become targets for terrorist violence. As long as our troops remain there, the more terrorists that produces. Do you not see the paralell between the two? Perhaps you do not.



Are you going to (with a straight face) continue to maintain that there was no tie between Hussien, France, Russia, Germany, the U.N. and Bin Laden?

There sure where ties between France, Germany, Russia and Iraq. They where going to buy Oil from Iraq... That means oil being bought with Euros rather than Dollars. Here is the possible REAL reason for the need for "regime change" in Iraq... Now the ties to Al-Queda and those nations, I would like to see how you are going to tie those together...


Man, all this unrest and terrorism in the Middle East started when Bush invaded Iraq.


No. Where id you get that idea? Think more along the lines of Isreal, and 1948..


Holy Cow, a mind is a terrible thing to waste Oloe.


It is a shame, isn't it? How do you cope with your self??


Hey moron, I was using sarcasm to make a point. I know that Bin Laden and Hussein were enemies. I also know that Stalin and Hitler were. Of course, you missed the point of what I was saying.

In a global war on terror, what does it matter that Hussein and Bin Laden aren't buddies?

Instead of trying to give me a history lesson, why don't you think about the ignorant statements you make?

Yes Oloe, remove the troops from where the terrorists are, elect some liberal democrat who will ignore our enemies in favor of prosecuting Bill Gates and the Walton family or saving trees, watch America get atttacked again, then blame Bush... I am well aware of your brilliant foreign policy views.

Geez, quit trying to be the smartest person on ARP and pick up a history book.

Oloe thought he had me on the Hussien/Bin Laden thing. I guess sarcasm is above his European head.

Oloe, you don't think Hussien affected France and Germany by threatening not to sell them oil if they joined the U.S. invasion? Oh well, that's your problem.

[oloenneker]

I also know that Stalin and Hitler were. Of course, you missed the point of what I was saying.

No I understood what you where saying, but I ignored it because I would end up typing for way too long...

Let's just keep it succinct and say they where both enemies, but for different reasons. One declared war against the US and the other did not. The only thing that they had in common is that they where dictators and brutal, but politically they where at two complete seperate ends of the spectrum.



In a global war on terror, what does it matter that Hussein and Bin Laden aren't buddies?


Because when you elude to their connection to get Congress to authorize an illegal war, it means everything. So while we where busy flushing out the Ba'ath party from power in Iraq, the real people resposible for attacking us in the first place slip between the cracks... And for that matter grow stronger and more numerous because of the crap we do in Iraq. It's the seed for eternal war, which has a grim outcome for both sides.



Instead of trying to give me a history lesson, why don't you think about the ignorant statements you make?


Ignorance is in the eye of the beholder...

But Ignorance could also be bliss, just depends on wether you are a pessimist or an optimist. None of my statements are derived from ignorance, just a different perspective than yours.



Yes Oloe, remove the troops from where the terrorists are, elect some liberal democrat who will ignore our enemies in favor of prosecuting Bill Gates and the Walton family or saving trees, watch America get atttacked again, then blame Bush... I am well aware of your brilliant foreign policy views.


Well, you might be on to something here. I guess you are all in favor of hiking up the taxes it's gonna take to pay for all this war, because sooner or later no one is going to lend us anymore money, because we will have reached our credit limit. If you really believe that all the terror alerts and color coded warnings actually mean anything? No they do not, they are just in place to scare the crap out of us, so we remain subserviant to the PNAC causes. This tactic has worked very well before. It's one of the core population control methods fascist use.
I don't blame Bush for us being attacked, that seed of hate was germinated long before bush ever came into office. Go back further in time, perhaps to the 1950's or so.



Geez, quit trying to be the smartest person on ARP and pick up a history book.

I do not consider myself the smartest person here, not by a long shot. It's all relative knowledge. For example, You probably know a great deal more about parenting than I (I have no kids and you have 6), conversly, RoBoTeq knows more about theology than I (I am an athiest, and he is devoutly religious)...
and on and on and on. I simply have a god grap on current events, as does most of the people that come here to ARP, that why we come here. It's unfortunate that not more Americans care about current events, and less about gossip BS and Celeb fake news.

BTW, choose the next history book I should read: Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn... You pick. I'll get to it as soon as I finish the one about Jefferson (a couple of day max) that I am reading right now.



Oloe thought he had me on the Hussien/Bin Laden thing. I guess sarcasm is above his European head.

They have sarcasm in Europe too you know.



Oloe, you don't think Hussien affected France and Germany by threatening not to sell them oil if they joined the U.S. invasion? Oh well, that's your problem.

First of all, I never said that.

France, well they are just pussies... They werent threatened by Saddam, they are just wimps.

Germany on the other hand, is another story. It is against their constitution to ever be involved in any sort of pre-emptive warfare. German Law! The people of Germany wrote that law to prevent another little catastrophy, such as happened last century. Their military is for DEFENSE ONLY!! So that's why they did not and never will help ANYONE with a offensive war.

But I guess knowing the truth is just my problem...

[oloenneker]

Posted by Sillybilly

What a croc. OBL's hatred of the USA far preceded the gulf war. Do some research and use your spell check.


Care to refute it? Please give me an example. And yes, as a matter of fact, the CIA funneled millions of $$ to the Mujahadin during the CCCP/Afghanistan war.

Sorry, VVB software does not offer a spellchecker... I have a typo problem... I would use one if they offered one, and I am too impatient to proofread.


The point, which seems to elude you still, is that their idealogies were very similar.
In fact, the USA and her friends were not thrilled about having to align with Stalin either....... dude.

You made no point here, dude.



Wrong. The USA is still fighting an offensive war in the middle east,on several fronts, while continually training the Iraqi Army. Guess you missed all the briefings.


Aparently the same breifings you missed as well. Thats the canned bush bot response to the situation in Iraq.



Most "civil violence" is being perpetrated by outside proxy.


Sure it is, but can you tie it to a nations government? Most likely not. Is there government funding to these people, maybe, but the burden of proof is on the US to make that case. That is what the CIA is for, And I doubt that some HVAC contractor is privy to their findings, so that rules your knowledge out.



LOL There are more than a few Generals on the ground in the middle east who would laugh in your face if you spouted this type of stupidity at them.
What generals are "on the ground"? It's not like the days of Patton that we have here. I'll take the word from the soldiers on the ground over a bunch of brass sitting in air conditioned offices back in the Pentagon.



Figure what out, Einstein? There are only 6 million Iraqis that have already figured out they don't want to live with an oppressive regime that threatens it's neighbors, kills it's dissenters and slaughters other tribal factions in the country.

How do you know? how many Iraqi's have you asked this question? The slaughter of tribal factions in Iraq occurred in 1988 with US supplied weapons, and was green carded by the Bush Sr. Admin.... Hmmm... Interesting isn't it?



What a croc of ****. You're still buying all this cut and paste garbage.

Cut and paste? I think not!! this is a realization I made on my own. The objective for the US involvement in Iraq is to increase the profit margins of GW's rich buddies. They want to see a Mickey D's and a Jack in the Fallafel on every corner. A 7-11 in every neighborhood and the freindly Wal-Mart in downtown Baghdad. Do you not see the larger picture? Capatalism does not always mean Democracy. So as you see, it's not all about the oil... It's the unlimited market oppertunities for maximum profits without taxation or regulation!!



Yes, and the atrocities will be multiplied, the terrorist training and plotting grounds will become the norm again, and the citizens who have mandated change will be killed or become refugees.
Another shining example of why liberal democratic weenies should NEVER administrate foreign policy.


Sure because Iraq was the HOTBED for terrorist training grounds before the US invaded them... You are getting confused with Afghanistan again.
Let the Iraqi's decide what is best for them. If Iraq become three seprate countries in the end, so be it. thats what happened to India when they where liberated....



If the Iraqis are abandoned in favor of popular opinion polls and political grandstanding, the region will become severely destabilized, terrorist factions will multiply to attempt to gain state control, and the entire region will be in chaos.
"Withdrawal of our troops at this point in time would be a disaster".
You want to think there is chaos now? Wait and see what will happen if Iraq is abandoned and left to defend herself when she's not ready.
Duh.

How can it get any worse that it already is? If it does, and it surely will, why do our troops have to die in the mess? let them and Allah sort it out.



The Jewish people cultivated the land and then the Arabs wanted the cultivated land back after the Jews built it into the beautiful state that is Israel.
Go figure.


I never said that it was right, but it is what it is. And it's part of the problem.

[geerair]

You gotta wonder what the conservlican wingnuts are reading or if they even read anything at all. They never cease to amaze me with their odd and quaint view of history and current events. Must have some sort of an editing filter attached to their data processing equipment.

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by geerair
You gotta wonder what the conservlican wingnuts are reading or if they even read anything at all. They never cease to amaze me with their odd and quaint view of history and current events. Must have some sort of an editing filter attached to their data processing equipment.

I got mine from the Sharper Image catalog. It's called the "BushBoggleGoggle". You should get one.

How was mass on Sunday?

[daytonafan]

For example, You probably know a great deal more about parenting than I (I have no kids and you have 6)

Yes, I do know how to get puke out of most fabrics. However, parenting is mostly instinct. Don't play with guns, eat your veggies etc....


It's unfortunate that not more Americans care about current events, and less about gossip BS and Celeb fake news.

Amen Oloennker. Amen.


BTW, choose the next history book I should read: Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn... You pick. I'll get to it as soon as I finish the one about Jefferson (a couple of day max) that I am reading right now.

Stay away from Chomsky. He is dilusional and depressed.
I recommend "1776" by David Mc Cullough or "One Day In September" by Simon Reeve.
Try any of these http://radicalacademy.com/bookstorelibertarian.htm

A good non-political read is "Freakonomics" by Dubner and Levitt.


They have sarcasm in Europe too you know.
Yes, I found France to be full of rude, sarcastic pricks.


But I guess knowing the truth is just my problem...

Yes, I have the same problem

[oloenneker]

Originally posted by daytonafan

Originally posted by geerair
You gotta wonder what the conservlican wingnuts are reading or if they even read anything at all. They never cease to amaze me with their odd and quaint view of history and current events. Must have some sort of an editing filter attached to their data processing equipment.

I got mine from the Sharper Image catalog. It's called the "BushBoggleGoggle". You should get one.

How was mass on Sunday?

A "BushBoggleGoggle"... Hmm .. thats humor at it's best!!


I Like it!! Can I quote you on that funny as sh!t name?!!

I am serious, is it Original or did you find that somewhere else, because it's facking funny!!!

[oloenneker]

[quote] From Daytonafan: before the cap'n cokes

Stay away from Chomsky. He is dilusional and depressed.
I recommend "1776" by David Mc Cullough or "One Day In September" by Simon Reeve.
Try any of these http://radicalacademy.com/bookstorelibertarian.htm

A good non-political read is "Freakonomics" by Dubner and Levitt.[quote]


This one?
http://www.simonsays.com/assets/isbn/0743226720/BC_0743226720.jpg

I'll pick it up next time I am at Powells...

But this peaks my interest a little..

http://www.freakonomics.com/images/cover.jpg


Might have to read that one as well...

Those two whould take about two or three nights to read... Thanks!


But alas, Chomsky does make good points, even though he is a pinko, and Zinn just keeps on complaining about the Viet Nam war....

Daytona, you should check out Thom Hartmann's Book "What would Jefferson Do".. I know, it's a little left leaning, but this dude is pretty smart and portrays Jefferson in a light you might not expect....

Exciting stuff, my man!!

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by oloenneker
[quote] From Daytonafan: before the cap'n cokes

Stay away from Chomsky. He is dilusional and depressed.
I recommend "1776" by David Mc Cullough or "One Day In September" by Simon Reeve.
Try any of these http://radicalacademy.com/bookstorelibertarian.htm

A good non-political read is "Freakonomics" by Dubner and Levitt.[quote]


This one?
http://www.simonsays.com/assets/isbn/0743226720/BC_0743226720.jpg

I'll pick it up next time I am at Powells...

But this peaks my interest a little..

http://www.freakonomics.com/images/cover.jpg


Might have to read that one as well...

Those two whould take about two or three nights to read... Thanks!


But alas, Chomsky does make good points, even though he is a pinko, and Zinn just keeps on complaining about the Viet Nam war....

Daytona, you should check out Thom Hartmann's Book "What would Jefferson Do".. I know, it's a little left leaning, but this dude is pretty smart and portrays Jefferson in a light you might not expect....

Exciting stuff, my man!!

Will do. Yes, those books are the ones I recommend. You won't be able to put 1776 down, it is fantastic.

I came up with the BushBoggleGoggle myself. I think he screwed up early on in the war. I also think that if we don't start fighting it the way we can, we will lose big time.

I support his decision to invade Iraq, I just don't like the way he is going about it.