American Made

[ngore22]

I am just curious as to how important it is for ya'll that your unit is for the most part american made? Does it mean anything anymore?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by ngore22
I am just curious as to how important it is for ya'll that your unit is for the most part american made? Does it mean anything anymore?

Want my opinion? I think this is how important it is I bet RUUD, Carrier, Trane, etc. could develop a totally "Made In America" unit that is actually made here and paint it Red,White and Blue and probably buy Bill Gates out really quick now how about that?

[amickracing]

In my personal opinion... I think it's very important, even though it likely is rare. May be assembled in the US, but I kinda doubt everything is made in the US.

But for the business's I deal with.... price is the key. If they can get it cheap and it lasts through warrenty... SOLD.

[ks ftc]

Lennox is almost 100% American made in Marshalltown Iowa, however, most Lennox dealers will tell you that being 100% American made will not sell the product.

So the Bill Gates red, white and blue thing is 100%BS.

Just look around Honda, Toyota, and so on, some day that is going to bite us all, I just hope that when that day comes they pull the records and find those who bought foreign and take everything from them!!!

But don't worry, Lennox will soon be like everyone else, how long can they pay labor rates of 30+ dollars are hour, while Carrier is buildin' them in Mexico at 3 dollars a day?

[swagging tool]

I think there would be a market for the totally made in the USA units but it would mostly be a change out market.Most Builders are never going to recomend to the homeowner that they use a better alas more expensive product because they think it is takeing money from their {the builders} pockets. Now seven or eight years down the road. That same homeowner is saying to me yeah the only thing I feel I got cheated on was my heat and a/c it should last longer than this should'nt it? I heard those very words today while I was changeing out a gas furnace with a/c and adding another 400 cfm of return. Seems that the builder did'nt like floor returns and we all know it takes a good many of those little 3 1/2 x 14 in. wall stacks to get the proper return for a 90 plus furnace to operate correctly. Well alot more of them than that builder wanted to see on his walls anyway. I personally believe that when the HVAC residentual market begins catereing to homeowners when the home is comming off the ground instead of catering to builders then we may be saying made in america installed in america and proud of it a whole lot more.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by ks ftc
Lennox is almost 100% American made in Marshalltown Iowa,


Close only counts in horseshoes and hangrenades. :D

Lennox are the worst as for as customer support I have ever found.

[RoBoTeq]

Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )

[seatonheating]

Why the hell would anybody here care about "made in america"? Have you seen our customers? It's a crap-shoot to whether or not they speak english. Here in Seattle, "Made in Japan" would be the big seller.

[BaldLoonie]

You couldn't afford a Made in America product. The reason so much stuff goes to 3rd world countries is John Q Public wants the rock bottom price. Lennox is no more American made than anything else (except WeatherKing & Payne outdoor units which are made in Mexico.) The blower motor, the White-Rodgers controls are just as Mexican as they are in a Trane or Goodman/Amana. Actually Carrier might be one jump up if they are still make boards in the US. And if you don't count their Mexican coils!

I remember when the folks at the local Carrier furnace factory were staging a job action to complain that their $15-16 an hour wasn't enough. So, with dealers beating distributors beating the factory for lower prices, what's Carrier to do? Pay $17 an hour in Indy or pay $2 an hour in Mexico or 50 cents an hour in PRC?

[mark beiser]

Look to the success of Wallmart for an indicator of how important the long term economic well being of the USA is to the average consumer.

Everyone wants it all, wants it now, and wants it cheep.
Nevermind what the long term affect is on our economy.

IMO, the "globalization" of the economy is slowly bleeding America dry. The rate that money bleeds out of America to 3rd world economies for cheep manufactured goods is not sustainable.

Then again, paying American factory workers $20+/hr + bennies, for what is essentially unskilled work, is not sustainable...

[qssfl]

What about unions????

Did they help or did they kill the AMERICAN PRODUCT?

Would love to hear what a few people here have to say about UNIONS, and how they contributed to the manufacturing of goods in the U.S.A.

Notice I didn't say that I was for or against unions.

Just wanted to see what some have to say ....

[Mr Bill]

Hey I was made in America "at least Mom says that" and I am still in pretty good shape after 55 years so we do have some hope. :D

[paul42]

Like most other things in this world, unions, or the idea of made in America is very complex.

Unions have their good points and their bad points. In the days when the US population was much less mobile than it is today, unions were a necessity for the common every day man. They still have their good points, along with a lot of bad ones. I personally would never join a union because I prefer not to give somebody else the right to say when I can go to work or not, or what type of work I am allowed to do once I get there. I'm just too independent.

"Made in America" also has its good points and its bad points. Only buying things made in America is just as bad as only buying things made in China. If we did not buy anything from China, then China would not have the money to buy the things that we make and that would put a lot of American workers out of business. I think that we currently are buying way too much from China, but the one thing that I can guarantee is that there will be change.

[taterbugbrown]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )

You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by paul42
Only buying things made in America is just as bad as only buying things made in China. If we did not buy anything from China, then China would not have the money to buy the things that we make and that would put a lot of American workers out of business.

Yes, the scrap metal industry would take a hit. If you don't count American money, scrap metal is our #1 export to China, by a huge margin. I think we send more scrap metal thier way than all other products combined.

[docholiday]

I wouldnt concern myself with something thats assembled in mexico, I would however, concern myself with stuff out of china though.

I am not sure how speaking english makes you better at brazing or bending metal. At least with the mexico plants the quality is watched.

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by taterbugbrown

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )

You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.

Prove what you state or shut up. It really is that simple. If all you can do is make stupid comments with no support, then what you state is usless drivel. I challenge you to support what you have claimed.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by taterbugbrown

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )

You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.

Prove what you state or shut up. It really is that simple. If all you can do is make stupid comments with no support, then what you state is usless drivel. I challenge you to support what you have claimed.

What do you expect for a taterbugbrown? :D

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by mrbillpro

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by taterbugbrown

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )

You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.

Prove what you state or shut up. It really is that simple. If all you can do is make stupid comments with no support, then what you state is usless drivel. I challenge you to support what you have claimed.

What do you expect for a taterbugbrown? :D

Very true mrbill. I just happen to know some of the good people that have been accused by this poster of not being American and it is simply offensive for him/her to have made such a comment.

[indoctrin8ed]

It doesn't matter.

What matters is this: value.

If China can manufacture a compressor (or anything) that is equal quality to a US made unit for less money, then they are a better deal, end of story. Best deal for the best money wins.

Time to get an education and compete or become obsolete.

That being said, I've worked along side many cultures and the good news is Ameircan ingenuity (and cockiness) does outperform other cultures. Watch out for those pesky Russians though, they're very clever and innovative.

[swagging tool]

As of right now china still is'nt up to par in my opinion. I have installed several haire heat pumps made exclusively in china and I will tell you that they still cant begin to compete with an american made product. Kinda funnt though that were sending them our scrap metal and they are sending it back as a finished product that is built useing mfg. methods that american business are banned from useing. I do agree that american industry better watch out because they are priceing themselves out of business but I guess thats just a product of treaties signed with other govts that force american manufactures to spend so much money on advanceing technology so as to keep up with the seer game and global warmming prevention that our wonderfull politicians have promised the world.

[RoBoTeq]

I agree that we Americans best be on our toes with other countries we currently discount as being inferior. In my youth, if something was made in Japan, it was considered garbage. We used to call duct tape; Japanese solder :D

One difference with China is that the Chinese are more arrogant then we Americans are. They don't use most of the products they build for American sale and frankly, I don't think they give a crap about how well it is made. Even the clothes that are made in China are inferiour fitting and manufactured. It's like they have no concept of form fitting clothes because they themselves do not wear Western styles of clothing.

[jeepfrk9]

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Originally posted by RoBoTeq

quote:
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Originally posted by taterbugbrown

quote:
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Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever )
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You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.
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Prove what you state or shut up. It really is that simple. If all you can do is make stupid comments with no support, then what you state is usless drivel. I challenge you to support what you have claimed.
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wow...I think you should settle down...it is a mattter of opinion and prespective. I happen to see his point. (i hope)
It happens all over this country, I lost my job years ago in az do to cheap labor, have many friends that still live there and the problem still exsists for more than one reason that we can go on all night about, sure not everyone and everywhere but the sum that it happenes to you can repeat that statment of yours to and I sure that will help them put food on the table....non americans working in america is a fact. Look at the latest census numbers. I dont care what side of the border issue your on it happens. If you think non americans (illegals) are just picking and cutting grass you need to wake up. So the statement just may have some truth to it.
Anyway this is just my opinion as part of a debate no offense intended.
Thanks

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by jeepfrk9
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Originally posted by RoBoTeq

quote:
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Originally posted by taterbugbrown

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You're confusing being made in America with being American made. Yes, they are made in America but not by Americans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Prove what you state or shut up. It really is that simple. If all you can do is make stupid comments with no support, then what you state is usless drivel. I challenge you to support what you have claimed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wow...I think you should settle down...it is a mattter of opinion and prespective. I happen to see his point. (i hope)
It happens all over this country, I lost my job years ago in az do to cheap labor, have many friends that still live there and the problem still exsists for more than one reason that we can go on all night about, sure not everyone and everywhere but the sum that it happenes to you can repeat that statment of yours to and I sure that will help them put food on the table....non americans working in america is a fact. Look at the latest census numbers. I dont care what side of the border issue your on it happens. If you think non americans (illegals) are just picking and cutting grass you need to wake up. So the statement just may have some truth to it.
Anyway this is just my opinion as part of a debate no offense intended.
Thanks


No offense taken. If someone just makes off the cuff accusations, then they need to either show some support that the accusation is actually true or "shut up". What if someone here states something off the wall about you or your family as if it were a fact? Would that be acceptable?

I was deliberately very brunt so that the poster could not resist posting proof of what he/she stated if he/she had any proof. I made a direct challenge with the intent of either showing that the remark that was made was not true or with the possibility of having to eat a hefty plate of crow.

So far, the poster has been silent while someone else, for whatever reason, has decided to intervene on my deliberately brunt post rebutting a deliberately false statement.

I believe in factual data and mouthed off BS has no place in fact. There are so many ways that posters who don't care for my style could best me if they would just post fact instead of off the cuff drivel.

[Edited by RoBoTeq on 09-05-2006 at 12:54 AM]

[turtle]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
Goodman and Amana, 100% made in the USA (with some parts manufactured where ever :D )


This is Turtle.

One of the reasons i started moving goodman stuff years back was the sale rep. toldf me about Goodman being all made in the USA. I said hey Rheem and Carrier is all made in the USA. He said check up for they don't. I checked up and Rheem and Carrier was not all made in the USA. It you cross the Boarder at Brownville , you will see 3 plants the size of most town that they make Rheem , York, and Carrier stuff at. I did not see any Goodman plants there. Then this.

I will move Goodman stuff till they start making their stuff outside the states. I do mostly commercial and some Goodman stuff does not apply well as what I need but if it will fit. I use Goodman stuff. I don't run my head about buying stuff in the USA but I just buy the stuff made here and don't say a word. My 2 work trucks now is a chevy and a GMC and both have the Vim # that tell me it was made in the USA. I don't tell nobody nothing but i just buy USA stuff. I have told customers that the Goodman is the only brand out of the 6 i sell , when ask , that is made in the USA and they buy the Goodman. Now i only sell Goodman condensers with Copland scroll compressors in them.

TURTLE

[RoBoTeq]

Good for you turtle. While I am not a total "made in the USA" snob, I do believe that U.S. workers for the most part are dedicated workers and take some pride in their jobs.

I would think that pride in what you are working on in countries where the worker may have no chance at ever owning or even using the product they are working on would be difficult to achieve. How can foreign workers who don't own HVAC systems possibly relate to how they should be manufactured?

I'd really like to see some U.S. parts manufacturers though. Too many HVAC parts are now manufactured outside of the U.S. and there seems to be little we can do about it.

[BaldLoonie]

The only thing Rheem makes south are the builder cube outdoor units. Everything else is USA made.

[Black Adder]

While I don't live in the US but in Canada the same thing applies here. If you want cheap offshore garbage then by all means buy and install it. What I get a kick out of is we are debating where the stuff is made and the quality issue while right here at home it is installed a lot of the times to the quality level that we all ***** about in offshore products. Everyone talks about the pride we see workers taking in quality manufacturing in North America but we don't seem to see the same quality in the workmanship in the installation market. We need to educate the workers in this country (just as this board is doing) in the neccesity of taking the time to learn to do it correctly and take some pride in the installation end of things. You can have the best product in the world but if it is abused and installed incorrectly you might as well use the crappiest stuff out there to match your install. Sorry for the long ramble just couldn't seem to stop typing. LOL

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
I'd really like to see some U.S. parts manufacturers though. Too many HVAC parts are now manufactured outside of the U.S. and there seems to be little we can do about it.

So true. Most of the functional parts of any HVAC system are made in Mexico or China.
GE motors used to be made in both Mexico and Canada. Maybe they still are, but it always seemed like we had far more trouble with the Canadian made ones, lol.

If I had to pick between Mexico and China, I would rather have stuff made in Mexico...

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by mark beiser

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
I'd really like to see some U.S. parts manufacturers though. Too many HVAC parts are now manufactured outside of the U.S. and there seems to be little we can do about it.

So true. Most of the functional parts of any HVAC system are made in Mexico or China.
GE motors used to be made in both Mexico and Canada. Maybe they still are, but it always seemed like we had far more trouble with the Canadian made ones, lol.

If I had to pick between Mexico and China, I would rather have stuff made in Mexico...

As much as it is a shame, I too would choose Mexican made over Chinese made. Then again; there are products that I lean toward other countries for quality...Germany, Sweden and Japan come to mind for quite a few things. I do like ornamental, non-functioning items from China though.

[kevinmac]

100% made in America I doubt it, since most of the premium units use electonic components,and these parts are not made in the USA. Assembled here yes.

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by kevinmac
100% made in America I doubt it, since most of the premium units use electonic components,and these parts are not made in the USA. Assembled here yes.

Pay attention Kevin; that's what we are collectively complaining about :D