American Standard vs Carrier

[indyhoops]

I'd like some feedback on which of the following quotes sounds the best based on your experience. I'm new to all of this, so I don' t have much to go on other than what I've read on this board.

The price difference between quotes about a hundred bucks. In other words, minimal.

Option 1:

Carrier 13 SEER HP (25HBA330) w/410A
Carrier Fan Coil (FYANF030) w/Thermostatic expansion valve
Carrier (KFCEH3301C20) 20 KW Heat Pack
Carrier Performance Series T-STAT (CCPHPO1B7)
10 Year Compressor/Parts/Labor Warranty

Reliable and Well Respected company with no BBB complaints for 7 years and A rating from Angie's List)

Option 2:

American Standard 13 SEER Heritage HP (2A6H3030A1000A)
A-S 2.5 Ton Air Handler (2TGB3F30A10001A)
A-S Heat Pack (BAYHTR1401BRKB)
Programmable t-stat (Not sure the model, its a Honeywell)
10 Year Parts/Labor Warranty

New company, unrated by BBB and not yet reviewed by Angie's List. Rep. I spoke with was with a different company before which was well rated by Angie's List before being bought out by another company)

[smokin68]

Didn't the A/S do the load calc? A company that does that cares about your comfort. JMO

[indyhoops]

Good catch, Smokin. Its good to know you're really reading my posts.

You're correct about the A-S quote. The Carrier quote is a new estimate I just got today, and they also did a load calc.

[southerncomfort]

The new Carriers are pretty nice and i would definatley chose them over anything American Std/Trane related.
Ive never cared for Carrier as a residential ac system but the new line is high quality at last.

[billva]

i like changing out the carrier coils every 5 years or so. but with the ten year p&l warranty, you should be ok. except when it fails during the hottest part of summer and everyone is swamped with work.

i also like the fact that i have to call some op center in new york to leave a message, to find out if they have a part in stock (6 miles away) at my distributor, 400 miles away from new york. what a pain in the asneck

[mr big]

Check Consumer's Reports to see which is best. American Standard/Trane the most reliable by far. Every contractor will have a different opinion on brands.

[captainrat]

Please understand , you cannot go by what the BBB says, they wont give anyone a good report unless you pay then $250.00 extortion money to get good graces. all that means is that the other company gives them 250.00 a year
the BBB in fact has unlicensed contractors on there roster. we have been in bussiness since 1998 & you cant get a report on us from them because we refuse to Pay & play there crooked game. It has never hurt us references from satisfied customers & a good portfolio mean the most.

Mr big is right

If you want R-410A go with 14 seer american standard
I would reccomend it.

[indyhoops]

410A isn't a huge selling point for me. I figure by the time the old stuff is no longer available, a drop in will have been developed.

Reliability and performance are my main concerns with the hardware itself.

Of course, the most important thing is that the contractor is trustworthy and does a quality job on the install.

[southerncomfort]

We have a few of the new 10 yr carrier coils in the field and havent had any leakers yet.

[woody's]

is the american standard 13 seer a r410a or r22? installed and serviced both brands and I would make my decision based on which CONTRACTOR will serve you better

[amickracing]

13's in A/S are R-22.

I think this is kind of like the ford vs chevy fight. Both are excellent quality, both have their own problems, both have their benifits.

Get it installed right and either will serve you well.

[indyhoops]

Originally posted by woody's
is the american standard 13 seer a r410a or r22? installed and serviced both brands and I would make my decision based on which CONTRACTOR will serve you better

The A-S is R22.

[davo]

Both units are good reliable units. I have been installing R-410a systems for 10 years, and have found customer say the R-410a systems dehumidify better, and we have found them to be the most reliable. I have sold Trane, Carrier and Lennox. All are very good.

I can tell you that tomorrow Carrier starts their "COOL CASH" fall promotion and you may be able to get a higher quality line like their "Perfomance Series". Ask Your dealer for details.

[tundraotto]

arent the R-22 systems more efficient? if they are not why are the highest SEER rated systems R-22 only?

[aircooled53]

I sold American Standard-Trane for 15 years and it a good product, made in Texas.

I am now a Carrier man and from what I have seen on there new equipment I would have to go with Carrier/410A..

But, it ain't my money so make an informed choice and check out references from both company's on past installation and service if possible.

As around the neighborhood on what others think about this company, call local mechanical inpection department ..

[4l530]

Originally posted by tundraotto
arent the R-22 systems more efficient? if they are not why are the highest SEER rated systems R-22 only?
Carrier's highest SEER system is 410a.

indyhoops : I agree that the company you choose makes more difference than the brand.
That being said, I like the Carrier for the fact that this particular one doesn't have the louver panels = easier to clean the coil. Just a service guy's point of view.

[tundraotto]

i didnt say carrier's highest rated systems - look at the 2 most efficient systems regardless of brand and I think you will find they are both R22 (and neither is carrier). Carrier would not want to promote R22 after they have spend tons of money promoting their "puron" which is plain 410a.

[4l530]

Originally posted by tundraotto
i didnt say carrier's highest rated systems - look at the 2 most efficient systems regardless of brand and I think you will find they are both R22 (and neither is carrier). Carrier would not want to promote R22 after they have spend tons of money promoting their "puron" which is plain 410a.
I understand what you said. I have mentioned one high SEER system that uses 410a (which has better heat transfer properties than 22...so as a refrigerant, it would appear to be more efficient).
Of course "Puron" is plain 410a (developed by Honeywell in 1991). "Puron" is a tradename meant to differentiate the product. All manufacturers do this at one time or another.
As to the highest SEER systems: I don't really care who makes them, or what refrigerant they use. Neither does the SEER. SEER is dependent on system design and rating conditions in the lab. The refrigerant doesn't have that much to do with it.
As to the refrigerant itself: The fate of R-22 has been sealed. If you want it, then fine. But based on what happened with R-12 et al. it appears it will be harder to get and more expensive in the coming decade.
I guess my question is: If 410a stinks, why are all the manufacturers now using it (or getting ready to)?
Dang, I didn't mean to get wrapped up in all this.

[ikey]

quality of equipment or quality of installation? carrier, ruud, goody, others = copeland.

a/s-trane = yrs of r + d and snowball. chose quality equipment over a sales pitch.

[timjimbob]

Trane's spiny condensers are "pollin magnets". The SEER rating drops immediately with pollin in the air.

A home owner cannot see or clean these coils. Must call a professional. Carrier's conventional finned coils do not get clogged with pollin as qhickly. A homeowner can recognize they are dirty and can hose the coils himself.

When will Trane and AS recognize their SEER rating is a laboratory rating and is maintenance is can only be done by an AC tech.

[tundraotto]

.

[Edited by tundraotto on 09-01-2006 at 05:38 PM]

[comfortdoc]

Originally posted by tundraotto
arent the R-22 systems more efficient? if they are not why are the highest SEER rated systems R-22 only?

Nordyne manufacturers the highest SEER (23) split systems on the market. They are R410-A. What manufacturers highest SEER equip is R22 only?

Indyhoops choose the installer you are most comfortable with. It was already mentioned that fall rebate programs are rolling out in the next couple weeks. You may be able to get higher efficiency with little extra investment.

[lonny]

Dont go by the BBB rating. If you do not belong to the BBB you are given A bad score. To check on this check "BAD BUSINESS BREAU.COM"

[jksmylieone]

I would go with the carrier system BUT not thier stat. Tell the company you want a White Rodgers 1F90 series programable stat or the new White Rodgers touch screen stat

[ikey]

Originally posted by timjimbob
Trane's spiny condensers are "pollin magnets". The SEER rating drops immediately with pollin in the air.



your right, they do catch everything passing thru, but the maintain their efficiency longer than any other coil. No comparison, Trane spine fin is not designed to maintenance free, only the most reliable and most efficient with the least amount of maintenance.