Install Pics, Critique, Questions

[booker]

Finally have some pics of finished install.
Resummary of job:
1) Heating: In the basement, our ancient oil heating tank and furnace was removed and replaced with an American Standard Comfort R 2-stage furnace, with a 2-stage t-stat (thanks to all those who suggested the 2-stage tstat that was not originally in the install plan).

2) Cooling: All contractors assessed that our old ducting, design through the walls, and register placement would lead to inadequate cooling if placed in the basement, and would be particularly poor upstairs. So, new install was in the attic. Trane XL14i (3.5 ton) and variable speed air handler. Insulated flex duct was run to each upstairs room, and 3 returns (1 in hallway that most rooms are off, 1 return in between 2 interior rooms, and 1 in a larger bedroom in which the door is usually closed at night); 3 runs come to the 1st floor (2 through a closet and one through a corner), an additional supply is above the stairs on 2nd floor dumping down the stairs.

The manager in charge of the install is off for a week and I was away when the job finished, so I could not ask questions at that time. I would like to have any wrap up questions ready when he gets back. Any help is much appreciated.

Questions:
1) Any over overall comments from looking at the install pictures. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=12170814&uid=6258143&members=1
2) I posted a question earlier regarding a few small leaks in the attic flex duct, but did not have pics at the time. There a a number of small holes in the insulation where a very small amount of cold air escapes. If the pics capture it, a few of these are where clips are. Are these minimal leaks okay? If the flex duct was sealed well, should there even be leaks at all where the insulation is torn?
3) Two flex duct supply runs are set into the attic beams and held with metal brackets. It appears that the brackets squeeze the flex ducts pretty tight and I was concerned that this may constrict air flow. It does appear that air flow out of one of these supplies is low. Can/should the brackets be replaced with larger brackets?
4) The attic celing has many many long nails protruding. The two flex duct runs are set right up agains the nails. Where I could feel, the nails have not pierced the insulation, but is this a problem waiting to happen? I can't feel behind the bracket portion of the ducting where the pressure of the nails would be tight.

THANKS AGAIN!!

[tigerdunes]

booker,

It's not made clear in your post why you could not use existing ductwork along with the added expense of a separate air handler for the AC. I think two separate units would have been preferred and in the long run, you would be happier but you may have just had to compromise due to budget consideration. Excellent equipment though.

Depending on your climate and electric rate, I may have opted for a heat pump system tied into your new AmStd var speed furnace for a dual fuel system.

As far as pics, I don't care for the direct vent install from an aesthetics viewpoint-it looks cheesy. I don't believe this is the Trane direct vent kit which is neat and less obtrusive.

I also would verify that the new lineset for your AC to air handler was sized correctly particularly taking into consideration its length.

IMO

[iheatncoolinnc]

Do you have a mechanical inspection department with the county or city that inspects installations. Was this inspected. Access to service doors looks tight with wires directly in front and flexible duct laying in front of system?

[Mr Bill]

Looks pretty go to me, Personally I would not want my duct right up against the roof decking with all the heat, it to bad that unit outside looks nice, for the electrical the way it's ran to blemish it, but sometimes we don't have a lot of choices.

[comfortdoc]

The seal-tite outside from the disconnect to the condenser is sloppy and looks to be pulled pretty tight. It also appears the flue pipes for the furnace are to close to the window but it might just look that way due to camera angle. Check instal instructions for distance from windows and other bldg openings.

[tinner73]

return tap-n-cap.....flex...how long to install??? 3 hours? did they bother to shut the truck off while they did it?;)

[beenthere]

The sealtite is pulled too short at the condenser.

The furnace vent looks shy of its required 12" minimun below the window.

The flex looks like it wasn't stretched out.

The return flex is alittle close to the acess panels.

The one flex run near the plumbing vent looks like its being crushed by its brasing.

Other then that it looks ok.

[-80guru]

Not liking the transition from airhandler to trunk line on the system in the attic. Return duct in the way of the access. Don't like to see flex run along the floor and then make an immediate turn up, over and then down into a grill gox. I agree about the power raceway going to condensing unit. Would have looked better if ran most of the way with emt and then adapt to flexible conduit close to the unit. The rest looks great though.

[hvacjamie]

ok. not trying to be too critical but.....


The electrical disconnect for the condenser is just plain ridiculous.

I'm not a big fan of hanging the flex up against the top of the attic like that, for many obvious reasons.

All the flex looks cramped and restricted.

The threaded rod is blocking the a/h panel.

You are going to get some pretty harsh critics here, but no matter what, I have seen a hell of a lot worse generally a majority of the time. good luck.

[Steve Wiggins]

That is awesome quality on the workmanship! You can work for me anytime booker.

A couple of things I would have done different:

1. No need to suspend the air handler from rafters but it's ok if you need to for local requirments. I would have supported the air handler LENGTHWISE so it won't buckle when the door panels are off. You can easily slide in two unistruts lengthwise right now without much trouble. Make sure the all-thread isn't blocking access for removing parts.

2. Run that return up over top of the equipment. It's really in the way in front of the access panels.

3. I realize you are trying to give the HO attic space for storage but I am picturing a bunch of boxes & crap in the way of the unit. In most cases it works better to run the equipment crossways in the attic and not lengthways.

[booker]

Thanks for all the replies.

Steve Wiggins: Thanks for the compliment, but sorry for the confusion - I am the HO. I do alot of work around the house, but you wouldn't want me doing complicated HVAC.

beenthere, comfortdoc: I'll check on the distance of the venting from the window. Yes, I think the bracing may be constricting the flexduct.

tigerdune: i'll check on the linest

iheatncoolinnc: access to service door is a bit tight, but eggagerated in the picture. I wish the town did a mechanical inspection, but they only inspect the new gas line and the new electric.

hvacjamie and 80guru, others on electric: as mrbillpro noted, sometimes there just isn't a choice. The electrician had to run run up and over the top of the garaga and with the window and other obstacles came out at best spot possible.

tinner73: not knowledgeable about what you are referring to regarding the "return tap n cap" - can you explain.
In fact, they spent 6 and a half days on the complete intall (granted they don't work the longest days, about 9:30-4).

Thanks again! any additional follow-up comments are appreciated.

[thoglow]

I don't care for the termanation kit under the window.
Inspectors nail us on that.Is that up to code?

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9263/182175734ag5.jpg

[seatonheating]

Ya, that vent needs a BAYVENT kit. Ask your contractor about it I couldn't find a link for ya. I agree with the flex being right up against the roofline, a big no no. As well as the flex in front of the unit, could easily be strapped up out of the way. Also, I noticed on one of the pics that you have a flex run tapping off of the trunkline right on the end. I was always taught in duct design class that you must have 12" of duct past your last take-off, ask them about that as well. All in all, not a bad job, just needs a little tweaking. Take care.

[seatonheating]

Wait a minute, go here..he he. It's one of my installs, this install shows a Bayvent. Scroll down til you see the nice trim piece on the outside of the house.

http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=105342&pagenumber=1

[allstar08]

i hate those bay vent kits. they drip water on the siding of homes. pull your intake from the crawl space and vent your furnace with a 45. that whip is supposed to be no longer than 6'. too much flex in that system, what ever happened to sheet metal?

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by emoney1971
i hate those bay vent kits. they drip water on the siding of homes. pull your intake from the crawl space and vent your furnace with a 45. that whip is supposed to be no longer than 6'. too much flex in that system, what ever happened to sheet metal?


Doesn't hurt vinyl siding....:)

[sirjames]

It looks like they raised the venting for snow clearance.

[Steve Wiggins]

Originally posted by booker


Yes, I think the bracing may be constricting the flexduct.




I doubt it. That is about as good as a flex job gets. You might see some insulation compression but it would have to be very severe to crush the spiral wiring of the duct's inner liner. I would need some air diagnostic data before I declared restriction. I think they went out of their way to accomodate increasing your storage space.

Bottom line on this install is I can tell these installers TOOK PRIDE IN THEIR WORK. Either the owner was on the job working or the owner doesn't push his guys for time. This is a great thing for you the HO because that means the unseen things on the inside of the system are also taken care of well.

This company wants to make you happy for referral and repeat business. I sure wouldn't nit pick at their work. If you have a warranty issue I bet they stand behind it all the way.

[booker]

Steve Wiggins, thanks again, and others as well. Yes, duct layout was trying to save storeage space for us. I'm ashamed about how much junk we keep around, and, of course, moving it out for the job was a royal pain.

Re gas venting: Sir James is right. Gas venting, as seen in pics, has to be a certain height off the ground for snow clearance. In the Boston area, vents getting covered have killed people. That being said, is it a problem for the vents to be that close to the window? - the window wouldn't be open in the winter. Given the oddities of our 150 yr old house (the way the stone foundation is laid, later add-ons, etc.) there were very few choices where to run the vents without constricting head room and without a number of bends.

[drcustom]

Originally posted by seatonheating
Wait a minute, go here..he he. It's one of my installs, this install shows a Bayvent. Scroll down til you see the nice trim piece on the outside of the house.

http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=105342&pagenumber=1



Looks great seaton but that would lower the termination point below the snow line no? Rare is the job up here in the Northeast that we can install bayvent kits for funaces in basements.

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by drcustom

Originally posted by seatonheating
Wait a minute, go here..he he. It's one of my installs, this install shows a Bayvent. Scroll down til you see the nice trim piece on the outside of the house.

http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=105342&pagenumber=1



Looks great seaton but that would lower the termination point below the snow line no? Rare is the job up here in the Northeast that we can install bayvent kits for funaces in basements.

Snow-line here in Seattle? Funny! We don't need to worry about such things here. We aren't even required to put pump-ups under our heat pumps. You yankees got it rough..:).....although we do have to make earthquake precautions such as earthquake valves on the gas meter, earthquake straps on all installed equipment, etc.