Thermostat - auto or manual change over

[olc]

What is a simple non-programmable thermostat for rental townhouses? Should I use a auto changeover so there is no chance of the heat getting left off (they are student apartments).

[beenthere]

focus pro 3000.

No, don't need auto change over.

[keepitsimplestupid]

manual changeover - you select heat or cool or off

auto changeover - heat or cool mode is selected for you automatically. Off you can select.

Auto/manual changeover may be selectable at install or configurable.

[olc]

Thanks.
beenthere - Do you mean the Pro 3000 or the Focus Pro 5000?
My real question is: Can any of these manual changeover thermostats protect against low temperature if they are left off or in cooling by a student that goes home for christmas break?
It probably is rare but I have heard of freezing pipes because students left windows open when they left for winter break.
(I called the Honeywell customer service and got a guy probably in India or there abouts who had no clue what I was asking)

[keepitsimplestupid]

It really looks like you have a different problem to solve and a moderately difficult one.

I might look at it from a couple of angles:

1) Notification (email, phone) when temperatures exceed extremes. Devices exist that will call and send a pre-programmed message in response to contact closures. These may be a bit pricy.

2)You can get notification from an alarm monitoring company. You could just do temperature monitoring with an alarm monitoring service or combine it with (fire, intrusion, smoke etc). Simple, with a small monthly charge. Assumes phone or internet service. Some alarm monitoring services that are internet based will also send emails and the monthly fees are much smaller. Transmission of the contact closure to the base can be wireless.

3) Central contol and local control of the thermostat. Meaning, you leave it alone and when the tenant leaves, you set the mode to what you consider to be unoccupied. This could be difficult and probably belong with a building automation specialist. Adding #1 would probably be easy once you have this.

This is what I call "Thinking out loud" knowing few details. What is the problem your trying to solve? freezing pipes or the window was left open with the AC/heat on full blast?

Some answers that could help anybody willing to engineer a solution: How many units? How close are they? Is pulling wires easy? Budget? Phone available? Internet available?

Students might have internet and no phone because their phone is a cell phone. You could provide or require internet access.

[jared]

The last apartment lease I signed had stated..

"it is madatory to maintain utility service and maintain interior temperature of at least 60 degrees from November to March....tenant will be held liable for damage due to freezing due to not heating or heating set below 60...."

[keepitsimplestupid]

One other thing. I believe carrier offers a pre-packaged solution with thir infinity control, system access module (SAM) and certain Carrier furnaces.

SAM requires a small monthly fee that accesses carriers website utilizing a paging company, so you have internet control of the stat. There is also one aux alarm contact. My rec-colection is that email notifications are possible for various "alarm" conditions.

[jacob perkins]

Originally posted by olc
Thanks.
beenthere - Do you mean the Pro 3000 or the Focus Pro 5000?
My real question is: Can any of these manual changeover thermostats protect against low temperature if they are left off or in cooling by a student that goes home for christmas break?
It probably is rare but I have heard of freezing pipes because students left windows open when they left for winter break.
(I called the Honeywell customer service and got a guy probably in India or there abouts who had no clue what I was asking)

I will approach your question from a different angle... "modus el cheapo" ....as stated :
---------

keepitsimplestupid manual changeover - you select heat or cool or off

auto changeover - heat or cool mode is selected for you automatically. Off you can select.

---------
with either of these,auto changeover or manual changeover, if the selector switch is off then you will have the problem of freezing pipes.

you will just have to go check to see for yourself that the thermostst is set...

[jacob perkins]

if the Tstat was set to cooling and the weather changed from 80 to 10 degree F, then you might need auto change over to prevent problems...

and thats the only case for "auto changeover" that I can think of...i hate the things

[olc]

Thanks for the input.
I was looking for a cheap easy solution.
I could easily do something with monitoring or a central T/C system.
I do not know where I would spend the money if it were my building which it is not.
I do know where the owner is not going to spend his money. And I do not think that they think it will be a problem.
Seems like a simple thing for even a cheap thermostat - if the temperature goes below 40 deg., heat.

[olc]

For that matter, if it is a problem, they could add an inaccessible heating only thermostat in parallel set at 40 deg.
I am probably thinking too much.

[beenthere]

Any stat det to cool mode won't bring on the heat, a second stat would be needed.

I doubt this will be a real problem.

But, just incase, have the lease changed to include the utility conditions someone else posted about, and also include that the tenants are reponsible for any and all damages caused by their neglect.

[keepitsimplestupid]

I did find a commercial stat (contacts+communucations) with the following feature:

"Frost protection establishes a minimum heating setpoint of 42°F (5.5°C) to prevent freezing in the zone controlled by the thermostat. If enabled, frost protection is activated even if the thermostat is set to the Off System Mode."

[keepitsimplestupid]

How's this freeze alarm:

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1115

[Shophound]

You could put in a Vision Pro, program it for autochangeover, set upper and lower temperature limits (can't set cooling lower than "x" and heating higher than "y"), then do a partial screen lockout where the tenant could only run the temperature up and down. If I recall correctly (I installed a slew of VP's in my last facility and did the partial screen lockout...but it's been awhile ago now) the partial screen lockout won't allow the system to be shut off or placed strictly in heating or cooling mode by the user...only the person that locked the screen and can unlock it can make these changes.

I think a cheaper way to go is to watch the weather reports for the onset of freezing temperatures. Before it really sets in, send a reminder letter to tenants of the clause in their lease (if any) that they must maintain minimum air temperature in winter or be held responsible for damages.

In the end, there's no stopping irresponsible tenants. Even if you went with the VP and installed it, a tenant could simply switch off the breaker to his furnace, neglect to pay the power bill, yank the stat off the wall and smash it to smithereens, or set the place on fire and laugh hysterically as he flees on one of those super fast rice rocket bikes that the cops can't catch up to as he pops wheelies all the way into the next state.

No...you'd never know I used to work in the apartment industry. :D