New HVAC System - Help, My Head is Spinning

[Aflick]

After two years of knowing my system would need to be replaced, it finally failed last week. For a week now, I have been searching the internet and this forum (great info!) for assistance in what to purchase. Please give me your thoughts on the following quotes:

Quote 1:
XR15 - 4TTR5036E1000A (TRANE)
XV80 - TUD2B080A9V3VA (TRANE)
Coil - 4TXCB042BC3HCB (TRANE? Appears to be American Standard)
Thermostat - TCONT800AS11AA (Trane Xl800)

Quote 2:
XR15 - 4TTR5036*1000* (Trane - that is how it appears on the quote)
XV80 - TUD2B060A9V3VA (Trane - listed on quote as 60000 btu)
Coil - 4TXCB004CC3CHA
Thermostat - TCONT802AS32DA (XL802)

Quote 3:
XR16i - 4TTX6036*1000*
XV80 - TUD2B060A9V3VA
Coil - 4TXCB004CC3CHA
Thermostat - XL950

Quote 4 (Carrier Infinity):
Condensor - 24ANB736A003
Furnace - 58CVA090-1-16
Coil - CNPHP4821ATA
Stat - SYSTXCCUID01-V

All quotes ended up without $1000 of each other, therefor price is not the biggest issue. What would you recommend?

Concerns:

Quote 1 - American Standard Coil (?) and XL800 Thermostat
Quote 2 - Furnace model and btu don't seem to match
Quote 3 - Cost a few hundred dollars more than the other quotes
Quote 4 - Company rated very well, but not impressed with sales person (rushed, unprofessional etc.)

Help please!?

[Aflick]

Before people ask, this unit is an upstairs unit that is replacing a 3 ton unit. The previous unit struggled to keep up in 100 plus degree whether (couldn't hold in the upper 70's during the day).

All quotes include minor work on the return and exhaust.

[udarrell]

If the 3-Ton couldn't keep-up, there may be home inefficiencies that need to be dealt with.

First; a Home Energy Efficiency Audit may be in order. Does your Power Co do them?

The quality of the install will determine how well the system performs...

[Aflick]

From what I have been told, the system is not sealed well at all and uses cardboard plenums and junctions. The quotes include adding a return, replacing all cardboard and sealing everything better. All companies were confident that this would solve the problems.

I only contacted the companies that were highest rated per Angie's list (if that is worth anything).

[catmanacman]

I would take the infinity but would want a smaller furnace that is a 90000 btu furnace the tranes are 60000 btu furnaces

[hcong]

After two years of knowing my system would need to be replaced, it finally failed last week. For a week now, I have been searching the internet and this forum (great info!) for assistance in what to purchase. Please give me your thoughts on the following quotes:

How old is your house? Any new window, insulation, or other improvements since the old unit was put in?



Quote 1:
XR15 - 4TTR5036E1000A (TRANE)
XV80 - TUD2B080A9V3VA (TRANE)
Coil - 4TXCB042BC3HCB (TRANE? Appears to be American Standard)
Thermostat - TCONT800AS11AA (Trane Xl800)

The condensing unit is a very efficient 15 SEER, your furnace has a typical 80% gas efficiency. Two Stage and variable speed is very good. Interesting it only comes with in a 80,000 btu heating model, but two stage means you can save on your gas bill if you don't need peak heating capacity all winter.

American Standard and Trane are the same company. I think your rep chose heat pump coils, so you might ask them if this is a mistake and if the coils should be like the other ones below. The thermostat, I noticed only have 1 stage heat... you should ask if this means that your two stage furnace will only be able to use the highest heat setting.

(Check here for Product Data (http://www.trane.com/webcache/un/split%20system%20air%20conditioners%20(ss)/product/22-1790-08_07012010.pdf))



Quote 2:
XR15 - 4TTR5036*1000* (Trane - that is how it appears on the quote)
XV80 - TUD2B060A9V3VA (Trane - listed on quote as 60000 btu)
Coil - 4TXCB004CC3CHA
Thermostat - TCONT802AS32DA (XL802)


Same condensing unit, the stars are minor factory designations. The furnace is a 60,000 btu for heating and I checked the CFM and you won't be able to get 1200 cfm with is furnace. This thermostat has multiple heating and cooling stages.



Quote 3:
XR16i - 4TTX6036*1000*
XV80 - TUD2B060A9V3VA
Coil - 4TXCB004CC3CHA
Thermostat - XL950


More expensive because it is 18 SEER condensing unit with two stages of cooling. Saves energy if you don't need your full 3 tons, but may not be necessary since you are only working with 3 tons. Same furnace. Thermostat I believe has a humidity sensor too.



Quote 4 (Carrier Infinity):
Condensor - 24ANB736A003
Furnace - 58CVA090-1-16
Coil - CNPHP4821ATA
Stat - SYSTXCCUID01-V


Condensing unit rated at 17.0 SEER with your furnace and coil. This unit is 2 stage cooling. The furnace is a 90,000 btu variable speed and two stage heating. Where do you live? I would recommend the 58CVX because it is low NOx. Thermostat is comparable to Trane's XL950.

Check here for Product Data (http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/24anb7-3pd.pdf)

Furnace Info (http://www.commercial.carrier.com/commercial/hvac/product_physical_data/0,3060,CLI1_DIV41_ETI4925_PRD690,00.html)

I would definitely figure out why the first guy specified 80,000 and the other two trane guys chose 60,000. What was your original furnace? Did your original system have any humidity issues?

You are my hero, these are all very energy efficient systems! Personally, the Carrier model is equivalent to the most expensive Trane quote. If this one is about the same price as the other two Trane quotes, I would go with the Carrier. I must warn you, I favor Carriers so I might be a little bias (don't worry, I am not a rep or get paid by them or own stock in the company).

[Aflick]

Thank you for the response hcong! Now let me see if I can fill in the answers to your question.

I live in Texas (DFW area) and obviously heat is a major concern. About 2 years ago, I replaced with windows on the southwest side of my house (front) with low e366 glass. Insulation was blown in prior to my time. The current unit is a 3 ton miss matched unit. The coils and furnace our original 1992 Lennox units with a trane condenser installed in 2003 (11 seer). This is one of 2 units in my house (upstairs unit). As far as the current furnace, I have a 50000btu unit and a 75000 btu unit. My assumption is that the 50k unit is the upstairs unit (the covers with the information are sitting on the attic floor).

Quote 1 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I specifically asked about the thermostat and was told that the XV80 is variable speed and the xl800 thermostat works fine with it. I even offered to pay more for another thermostat and was told it was not needed.

Quote 2 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Will CFM be an issue?

Quote 3 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Quote 4 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

My concern with this quote was the guy that came out...he was rushed, didn't give me much information, and ran out without really answering any questions. It almost appeared as though he was a tech that was asked to come out and sell a unit...he really didn't have any sales information. He did call me back the next morning with pricing and model numbers.

[Dad]

Aflick

Please read and conform to our site rules. No pricing is allowed.

thx

[motoguy128]

I would take the infinity but would want a smaller furnace that is a 90000 btu furnace the tranes are 60000 btu furnaces

+1 upstairs you'll only need the smallest furnace they make. In the 80% I think that's a 70k BTU. Also, are you on the sea coast? That Infinity Ac unit is a coastal unit with some extra corrosion protection. I wouldn't go any larger than a 3.5 ton coil or you'll have trouble controlling humidity, and that 05. SEER yu gain will go out the window.

Personally, I LOVE my Infinity system.

100F is over the design temperature for everywhere except the desert and Houston, TX. A properly sized system should fall behind by 1-2F depending on how tight your home is. In really hot humid weather air leaks kick you a**. Also keep your blinds or drapes closed.

Don't use setbacks with AC, they don't save any money and might even cause you to use more energy. Set it to 73-75 all day then 71-74 at around 9PM (1F lower) if you like to sleep a little colder. Then keep it there until 8-10AM.

[hcong]

Thank you for the response hcong! Now let me see if I can fill in the answers to your question.

I live in Texas (DFW area) and obviously heat is a major concern. About 2 years ago, I replaced with windows on the southwest side of my house (front) with low e366 glass. Insulation was blown in prior to my time. The current unit is a 3 ton miss matched unit. The coils and furnace our original 1992 Lennox units with a trane condenser installed in 2003 (11 seer). This is one of 2 units in my house (upstairs unit). As far as the current furnace, I have a 50000btu unit and a 75000 btu unit. My assumption is that the 50k unit is the upstairs unit (the covers with the information are sitting on the attic floor).

Quote 1 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I specifically asked about the thermostat and was told that the XV80 is variable speed and the xl800 thermostat works fine with it. I even offered to pay more for another thermostat and was told it was not needed.

Quote 2 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Will CFM be an issue?

Quote 3 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Quote 4 - $XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

My concern with this quote was the guy that came out...he was rushed, didn't give me much information, and ran out without really answering any questions. It almost appeared as though he was a tech that was asked to come out and sell a unit...he really didn't have any sales information. He did call me back the next morning with pricing and model numbers.

Yeah, unfortunately you didn't get a good salesman, I had the experience this week when we had some pump guys quote a job at my place. One of them was super rushed. Oh well, as long as they do the job right I don't care if their sales skills needs improving.

I think the consensus is that the Carrier Infinity is the best unit, I wouldn't choose the more expensive Trane over the Carrier.

I still think the first quote guy messed up on your coil and gave you a heat pump coil instead of an AC coil.

I don't know your duct work layout or static pressure loss of your system, but if I had to guess Trane's 80,000 btu and Carrier's 90,000 btu furnace was chosen because the fans on those models get more airflow than the 60,000 or 70,000 models respectively. You should still ask quote guy 1 and 4 why they didn't choose the 60,000 btu and 70,000 btu models since your old furnace is 50,000 btu. Don't accept answers that bigger is better. ;)

[motoguy128]

A load would be nice. The upstairs needs very little heating since convection and stack effect draw heat from. If a 3 ton cools that floor, then you might need as little as 30-40k BTU's in most climates. So the smallest available is likely all you need. You'll probably only use high stage for setbacks.

(Stepping up on a soapbox for a moment)... if a house really needed 80 or 90k BTU's, with current gas prices you would expect to see a $300+ bill from that that unit alone. I'm betting your gas bill for upstairs and downstairs combined and water heating isn't over $800. I don;t know what contractors continue to put in these huge units. All you get is less comfort, noisy airflow from undersized ductwork and higher bills.