Poll Zimmerman "Guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt"

[glennac]

If all you had to decide this case is what you have heard so far could you or would you convict Zimmerman of a crime? Just assume there will be no more "evidence or facts" presented and the case has gone to the jury and you are on it. Thank you, thank you very much

[glennac]

Personally I feel that the criteria of "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a big hurdle for the prosecution in this case. I see no "solid" evidence that Zimmerman was not attacked by Martin and used deadly force only to prevent himself from being seriously injured or killed.

Their is of course speculation that this was not the case and accusations of lying etc. but no evidence that I have seen where you could convict Zimmerman of any crime beyond a resonable doubt, regardless how you feel about Zimmerman or this case. I just hope that actually have solid evidence to the contrary or this is just a big waste of tax payers money to appease basically a mob calling for Zimmerman's head. Thank you, thank you very much

[coolwhip]

Agreed Glenn!

[Brian GC]

If you can get a manslaughter charge for using poor judgment as in a drinking and driving death, this guy also used poor judgment that resulted in a death. He is also an unreliable witness that has perjured himself, has a history of aggression and being a wanna-be cop.

This has poor judgment from being a wanna-be cop written all over it.

[glennac]

If you can get a manslaughter charge for using poor judgment as in a drinking and driving death, this guy also used poor judgment that resulted in a death. He is also an unreliable witness that has perjured himself, has a history of aggression and being a wanna-be cop.

This has poor judgment from being a wanna-be cop written all over it.

Poor judgement does not prevent you from using a gun to save your self from being beatin to death. There is no law against using poor judgement period. DUI is not comparable.

There it is ruled that if you drink enough to be legally drunk you have broken a law. Then if you kill someone in the process of breaking that law then you can be charged with manslaughter. Very simple. Nice try though. Thank you, thank you very much

[Brian GC]

Poor judgement does not prevent you from using a gun to save your self from being beatin to death. There is no law against using poor judgement period. DUI is not comparable.

There it is ruled that if you drink enough to be legally drunk you have broken a law. Then if you kill someone in the process of breaking that law then you can be charged with manslaughter. Very simple. Nice try though. Thank you, thank you very much

Very wrong on both counts.

Poor judgment gets you into situations that you will be held responsible for. Example; running with the wrong crowd during the commission of THEIR crime. If poor judgment got him into that situation, he is responsible for what ensued.

Other point: It is unconstitutional to be found guilty of a crime because you were guilty of another unrelated offense.

[glennac]

Very wrong on both counts.

Poor judgment gets you into situations that you will be held responsible for. Example; running with the wrong crowd during the commission of THEIR crime. If poor judgment got him into that situation, he is responsible for what ensued.

Other point: It is unconstitutional to be found guilty of a crime because you were guilty of another unrelated offense.

Funny that is a lot more than poor judgment that is participating in a crime and you are held guilty. Now everyone is guilty of poor judgement every day and they aren't arrested for that. Nearly everyone who commits a crime can be considered using poor judgement. Let's get real.

Second comment is equally wrong and way off. It is a crime to discharge a firearm within a 100 yards of a public road in Georgia. If in the process of doing that you shot someone even accidentally you can be charged for manslaughter instead of accidentally killing someone like in a hunting accident and maybe a misdemeanor charge of negligent homicide. Where did you get your law degree at there Brian? I rest my case. Thank you, thank you very much

[tunnel_rat]

This dude is guilty of defending himself in a PC run amuk world. That's what I see. We were'nt there, but it seems this "kid" bit off more than he could chew. And won't do it again.

[Some Dude]

This dude is guilty of defending himself in a PC run amuk world. That's what I see. We were'nt there, but it seems this "kid" bit off more than he could chew. And won't do it again.

Amen

[RoBoTeq]

This dude is guilty of defending himself in a PC run amuk world. That's what I see. We were'nt there, but it seems this "kid" bit off more than he could chew. And won't do it again.
Hell, let's just kill em all then....

[glennac]

Well so far it is 52% not guilty and has been above 50% since the poll started. Looks like the majority of "Americans" would vote not guilty because there is reasonable doubt that he is guilty of anything other than defending himself. Thank you, thank you very much

[coolwhip]

Hell, let's just kill em all then....

And let God sort them out?

[Some Dude]

Hell, let's just kill em all then....

See thats the thing , im sure you have the best intentions , but people today are bad.
The kid had issues , zimmerman had issues.
One of them is dead , thats it.
The media should be ashamed and so should obummer for playing that card , kinda squashed any justice , just like the oj trial.

Any time that card is played the issue becomes septic , and justice will not be found.
Ever.

[glennac]

The funny thing I see in this poll is that 3 folks have said that with the "evidence" revealed so far that they would vote for murder 2 "beyond a reasonable doubt". I find that impossible to believe.

No logical person in there right mind could say that Zimmerman is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" based on the evidence of murder 2. It is obvious to me that they hate Zimmerman so much because I guess he is White and shot a Black dude who was trying to kill or seriously mane him or they are such extreme liberal and or PC folks that justice and truth doesn't matter. Did you vote guilty of murder 2 corny?:whistle::grin2: just kidding

So far there is speculation by some on here that Zimmerman stalked and shot Martin on purpose with premeditation but they have offered no evidence nor could they prove their outlandish assertion. I would love for someone to state what evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" or otherwise they could show that this to be the case other than a theory. Unbelievable. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Well so far it is 52% not guilty and has been above 50% since the poll started. Looks like the majority of "Americans" would vote not guilty because there is reasonable doubt that he is guilty of anything other than defending himself. Thank you, thank you very much
Since when is justice a majority ruling? This is completely worthless. Here, let me make this thread worthwhile;
.
.
http://media.heavy.com/media/2010/07/sexy-flag.jpg
.
If you don't think you can salute this flag;
.
.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/JayPeezy725/Youre-gay.gif

[RoBoTeq]

The funny thing I see in this poll is that 3 folks have said that with the "evidence" revealed so far that they would vote for murder 2 "beyond a reasonable doubt". I find that impossible to believe.

No logical person in there right mind could say that Zimmerman is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" based on the evidence of murder 2. It is obvious to me that they hate Zimmerman so much because I guess he is White and shot a Black dude who was trying to kill or seriously mane him or they are such extreme liberal and or PC folks that justice and truth doesn't matter. Did you vote guilty of murder 2 corny?:whistle::grin2: just kidding

So far there is speculation by some on here that Zimmerman stalked and shot Martin on purpose with premeditation but they have offered no evidence nor could they prove their outlandish assertion. I would love for someone to state what evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" or otherwise they could show that this to be the case other than a theory. Unbelievable. Thank you, thank you very much
You need to start another thread about how Peter Lucas Moses was justified in shooting and killing Jaden Higganbothan, who Moses felt was acting suspiciously.....gay; http://www.dallasvoice.com/cult-leader-kills-4-year-old-gay-1082653.html

[barbar]

Since when is justice a majority ruling? This is completely worthless. Here, let me make this thread worthwhile;
.
.
http://media.heavy.com/media/2010/07/sexy-flag.jpg
.
If you don't think you can salute this flag;
.
.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/JayPeezy725/Youre-gay.gif

If I saw that, I would not be think about saluting, I would be thinking how could I get that on to my flag pole.

[barbar]

Well so far it is 52% not guilty and has been above 50% since the poll started. Looks like the majority of "Americans" would vote not guilty because there is reasonable doubt that he is guilty of anything other than defending himself. Thank you, thank you very much

As with any poll, what is the level of error based upon the large number of diversified demographic americans who have voted on this poll.

[glennac]

Since when is justice a majority ruling? This is completely worthless. Here, let me make this thread worthwhile;
.
.
http://media.heavy.com/media/2010/07/sexy-flag.jpg
.
If you don't think you can salute this flag;
.
.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l112/JayPeezy725/Youre-gay.gif

Well we meet on common ground here robo. I'll shake to that. I have to ask you one question though. Did you go to Travon's funeral? :grin2: Sorry couldn't resist there. Just kidding. Have a good night robo.

[glennac]

You need to start another thread about how Peter Lucas Moses was justified in shooting and killing Jaden Higganbothan, who Moses felt was acting suspiciously.....gay; http://www.dallasvoice.com/cult-leader-kills-4-year-old-gay-1082653.html

Wow robo that is pure evil and perversion. Don't see the relevance here just pure absurdity. Might start a thread on why some folks will pervert justice to get revenge. I mean the murder 2 vote was put in there since it was on the table but with no evidence to back it up.

Now 1 vote maybe and two is too much but 3 votes means we have some real weirdos out on this forum some where and can only speculate as to who. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

If I saw that, I would not be think about saluting, I would be thinking how could I get that on to my flag pole.
Ummmm, sort of what I meant by "saluting".....must be an American thing...:cheers:

[RoBoTeq]

As with any poll, what is the level of error based upon the large number of diversified demographic americans who have voted on this poll.
52% are gay.....:angel:

Did you not notice that the "not guilty" bar is pink?

[RoBoTeq]

Well we meet on common ground here robo. I'll shake to that. I have to ask you one question though. Did you go to Travon's funeral? :grin2: Sorry couldn't resist there. Just kidding. Have a good night robo.
Seeing that the police did not even know who Martin was for three days, I wonder if he even had a funeral. It would be nice if there was some respect for the young man's life.

[RoBoTeq]

Wow robo that is pure evil and perversion. Don't see the relevance here just pure absurdity. Might start a thread on why some folks will pervert justice to get revenge. I mean the murder 2 vote was put in there since it was on the table but with no evidence to back it up.

Now 1 vote maybe and two is too much but 3 votes means we have some real weirdos out on this forum some where and can only speculate as to who. Thank you, thank you very much
Oh, come on! It's so obvious that Jaden punk was nothing but a potential criminal, on top of being gay. We should give Moses a medal for ridding the world of another punk criminal.

[glennac]

Oh, come on! It's so obvious that Jaden punk was nothing but a potential criminal, on top of being gay. We should give Moses a medal for ridding the world of another punk criminal.

Well robo things have changed a lot since the 60's. Our former Governor Lester Maddox didn't put up with lawlessness and folks disturbing the peace in the Pickrick restaurant as show by the picture below with him and his son chasing away an uninvited guest at their place. Can't do that no more. Thought you might like this one.:bump::grin2: Thank you, thank you very much


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/glennac8/pickrick20lot20lg.jpg

[Some Dude]

You need to start another thread about how Peter Lucas Moses was justified in shooting and killing Jaden Higganbothan, who Moses felt was acting suspiciously.....gay; http://www.dallasvoice.com/cult-leader-kills-4-year-old-gay-1082653.html

This absolutely a geer / lefty rhetoric tactic robo,,,again,, get your head fixed , you have lost it.

[Brian GC]

Funny that is a lot more than poor judgment that is participating in a crime and you are held guilty. Now everyone is guilty of poor judgement every day and they aren't arrested for that. Nearly everyone who commits a crime can be considered using poor judgement. Let's get real.

Second comment is equally wrong and way off. It is a crime to discharge a firearm within a 100 yards of a public road in Georgia. If in the process of doing that you shot someone even accidentally you can be charged for manslaughter instead of accidentally killing someone like in a hunting accident and maybe a misdemeanor charge of negligent homicide. Where did you get your law degree at there Brian? I rest my case. Thank you, thank you very much

The poor judgment I am referring to is Zimmerman legally tailing Martin, then approaching him and questioning him in an assertive way. It is legal to do that but Zimmerman should have shown good judgment and not instigated a confrontation that he knew he could only settle with his gun. It’s like staring at a pair of big breasts, saying to her “nice rack” and she slaps you. Is she guilty of battery? No, not a chance, because you used poor judgment. It’s not legal for Martin to punch Zimmerman, but a reasonable person would have expected that.

I wonder how many of the “Not Guilty” crowd voted that way because they want to believe the lying, aggressive, wanna-be cop Zimmerman’s story. Or did they vote that way because they feel its payback time for the thugs of society?

[Some Dude]

The poor judgment I am referring to is Zimmerman legally tailing Martin, then approaching him and questioning him in an assertive way. It is legal to do that but Zimmerman should have shown good judgment and not instigated a confrontation that he knew he could only settle with his gun. It’s like staring at a pair of big breasts, saying to her “nice rack” and she slaps you. Is she guilty of battery? No, not a chance, because you used poor judgment. It’s not legal for Martin to punch Zimmerman, but a reasonable person would have expected that.

I wonder how many of the “Not Guilty” crowd voted that way because they want to believe the lying, aggressive, wanna-be cop Zimmerman’s story. Or did they vote that way because they feel its payback time for the thugs of society?

Not to punch a bunch of holes in your theory but.
Zimmerman had no way of knowing that he would have to use his gun, his neighborhood had been overrun by zero's breaking into many houses, how was he to know crayon was going to bash his head against the road and break his nose.
Its nothing like looking at cleavage , see its only sexual harassment if they DONT think your cute, otherwise they should cover up if they dont want to be stared at, i promise, if i yank the tip of my boxers out of my fly everyones eyes will be drawn there to.

Your last question is kinda weak as well, im sure there are many reasons why people voted the way they did.
Myself, i voted that way because someone has to stand up to the wicked hyperbole of the liberal media, the only times they state facts is by accident, who knows how much we dont know , and never will.

[corny]

I cast my vote for manslaughter. Didnt know whether to choose involuntary or not.

I dont believe zimmerman set out to waste another human being that night but I believe he was very careless and reckless in his actions and that led to lamonts death.

I also wish Zimmerman could be charged with being a coward....because that is what he truly is....

Hes the coward of whatever county he lives in..........

[Brian GC]

Zimmerman had no way of knowing that he would have to use his gun,

Zimmerman would have never approached Martin if he did not have a gun. Therefore he heavily relied on it.

I would have never thought that someone would vote “not guilty” because voting “manslaughter” can be viewed as a liberal choice. Amazing.

[glennac]

Zimmerman would have never approached Martin if he did not have a gun. Therefore he heavily relied on it.

I would have never thought that someone would vote “not guilty” because voting “manslaughter” can be viewed as a liberal choice. Amazing.

Admit it Brian you are a liberal. Thank you very much

[hearthman]

Zimmerman would have never approached Martin if he did not have a gun. Therefore he heavily relied on it.

I would have never thought that someone would vote “not guilty” because voting “manslaughter” can be viewed as a liberal choice. Amazing.

Following that logic, Zimm would have drawn his weapon to protect himself from ambush or hold the suspect for the cops. Since there is no evidence of his pursuing with his weapon drawn, one could conclude he did not anticipate encountering the suspect but was curious where the kid went and what he was up to. I have been in many tense situations where violence was anticipated and I can assure you that when I was off duty, I had a weapon at the ready and while on duty as a paramedic, the cops had their weapons drawn or a hand on the grips. You don't go into the Valley Of Death with your weapon in its case unless you are a moronic sheep looking to get slaughtered.

Most people who carry do not go hunting trouble. They carry for 'defense'--not 'offense'. Generally, when people go on the offense, they have their weapon at the ready whether hunting deer or people.

You also ASSume Zimm 'approached' Martin, which implies again hunting. How do you know he didn't 'stumble' onto him or get ambushed? You don't.

[Some Dude]

Following that logic, Zimm would have drawn his weapon to protect himself from ambush or hold the suspect for the cops. Since there is no evidence of his pursuing with his weapon drawn, one could conclude he did not anticipate encountering the suspect but was curious where the kid went and what he was up to. I have been in many tense situations where violence was anticipated and I can assure you that when I was off duty, I had a weapon at the ready and while on duty as a paramedic, the cops had their weapons drawn or a hand on the grips. You don't go into the Valley Of Death with your weapon in its case unless you are a moronic sheep looking to get slaughtered.

Most people who carry do not go hunting trouble. They carry for 'defense'--not 'offense'. Generally, when people go on the offense, they have their weapon at the ready whether hunting deer or people.

You also ASSume Zimm 'approached' Martin, which implies again hunting. How do you know he didn't 'stumble' onto him or get ambushed? You don't.

Exactly

[Some Dude]

Zimmerman would have never approached Martin if he did not have a gun. Therefore he heavily relied on it.

I would have never thought that someone would vote “not guilty” because voting “manslaughter” can be viewed as a liberal choice. Amazing.

More of your half baked theory , a theory btw is an unproven idea, kinda like evolution.
In any case , you and robo continue to spin this without having any first hand knowledge besides what the media whores are telling you.

[corny]

And you base your opinion on what Somedude....... You cant trust zimmerman because he has no way to back up his story.....he killed a man and he is going to say anything he has to in order to keep from going to jail.

I dont care if zims neighborhood was overrun by hoodlums.... he still should have called the police....like he had done before and waited for them to respond.

There is no reason in this world that trayvon should be dead... I know he is a black kid that smoked pot and to many americans that is a good reason.....but in the real world it was just another wrongfull death.

He saw a lone vulnerable kid walking thru his hood......he fiqured it would make a nice story to tell at his criminal whatever school..... he did something stupid and ended up killing an innocent person....

He needs to be punished for it just because he wont learn his lesson from his stupid mistakes unless he is punished in some form.

If he gets away with it he will probably be out here standing outside 7-11s popping every black kid he sees.

Anyhow.... none of us know the true facts of this case because we are never going to have two sides of the story to judge the facts from.

Zimmermans fate is in the hands of the legal system and that means if his lawyers are better than the prosecution...he will walk...... If his lawyers are a couple of dumbasses then he is going to jail.

Thats what justice is in america..... good lawyers set you free....bad lawyers get you put away.

Evidence and facts mean nothing in a court of law when it all comes down to it.

We saw that with OJ.....

[glennac]

And you base your opinion on what Somedude....... You cant trust zimmerman because he has no way to back up his story.....he killed a man and he is going to say anything he has to in order to keep from going to jail.

I dont care if zims neighborhood was overrun by hoodlums.... he still should have called the police....like he had done before and waited for them to respond.

There is no reason in this world that trayvon should be dead... I know he is a black kid that smoked pot and to many americans that is a good reason.....but in the real world it was just another wrongfull death.

He saw a lone vulnerable kid walking thru his hood......he fiqured it would make a nice story to tell at his criminal whatever school..... he did something stupid and ended up killing an innocent person....

He needs to be punished for it just because he wont learn his lesson from his stupid mistakes unless he is punished in some form.

If he gets away with it he will probably be out here standing outside 7-11s popping every black kid he sees.

Anyhow.... none of us know the true facts of this case because we are never going to have two sides of the story to judge the facts from.

Zimmermans fate is in the hands of the legal system and that means if his lawyers are better than the prosecution...he will walk...... If his lawyers are a couple of dumbasses then he is going to jail.

Thats what justice is in america..... good lawyers set you free....bad lawyers get you put away.

Evidence and facts mean nothing in a court of law when it all comes down to it.

We saw that with OJ.....

I can see that you like good lawyers corny because you must need them with all those fights you start. I'm also surprised that you are still breathing since in right to carry states you can get blown away for that just like your buddy Trayvon there.

It's unfortunate that Trayvon had to learn his lesson the hard way. Right now it is Zimmerman that we should be concerned about here. Don't want to see him hung out to dry on the alter of PC and mob rule.

You should ask your good neighbors what they think about it. My relatives in Tennessee see it Zimmerman's way. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

This absolutely a geer / lefty rhetoric tactic robo,,,again,, get your head fixed , you have lost it.
Now that you've admitted to your sexual desire for me, we know better then to pay any attention to anything you now say about me. No means; NO!

[RoBoTeq]

Not to punch a bunch of holes in your theory but.
Zimmerman had no way of knowing that he would have to use his gun, his neighborhood had been overrun by zero's breaking into many houses, how was he to know crayon was going to bash his head against the road and break his nose.
Its nothing like looking at cleavage , see its only sexual harassment if they DONT think your cute, otherwise they should cover up if they dont want to be stared at, i promise, if i yank the tip of my boxers out of my fly everyones eyes will be drawn there to.

Your last question is kinda weak as well, im sure there are many reasons why people voted the way they did.
Myself, i voted that way because someone has to stand up to the wicked hyperbole of the liberal media, the only times they state facts is by accident, who knows how much we dont know , and never will.
What? Are you now channeling Zimmerman?

Yanking your boxers out of your fly didn't do anything for me or any other guy you've done that to. It's time you came up with a new come on for those you are sexually attracted to.

[RoBoTeq]

I cast my vote for manslaughter. Didnt know whether to choose involuntary or not.

I dont believe zimmerman set out to waste another human being that night but I believe he was very careless and reckless in his actions and that led to lamonts death.

I also wish Zimmerman could be charged with being a coward....because that is what he truly is....

Hes the coward of whatever county he lives in..........
I voted the same and pretty much feel the same about Zimmerman. I've known too many cowardly liars who act just like Zimmerman.

[RoBoTeq]

Admit it Brian you are a liberal. Thank you very much
So what if he, or anyone else, is a liberal? Does that in any way change the fact that Zimmerman cowardly stalked a teenager knowing he had the ability to use deadly force if things didn't go his way?

[RoBoTeq]

Following that logic, Zimm would have drawn his weapon to protect himself from ambush or hold the suspect for the cops. Since there is no evidence of his pursuing with his weapon drawn, one could conclude he did not anticipate encountering the suspect but was curious where the kid went and what he was up to. I have been in many tense situations where violence was anticipated and I can assure you that when I was off duty, I had a weapon at the ready and while on duty as a paramedic, the cops had their weapons drawn or a hand on the grips. You don't go into the Valley Of Death with your weapon in its case unless you are a moronic sheep looking to get slaughtered.

Most people who carry do not go hunting trouble. They carry for 'defense'--not 'offense'. Generally, when people go on the offense, they have their weapon at the ready whether hunting deer or people.

You also ASSume Zimm 'approached' Martin, which implies again hunting. How do you know he didn't 'stumble' onto him or get ambushed? You don't.
There is no evidence that Zimmerman did not have his gun drawn as he continued to "hunt down" Martin. Nor is there any evidence that both Zimmerman AND Martin both completely changed their attitudes in the last minute before Zimmerman murdered Martin. There is absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman suddenly stopped stalking Martin and turned completely around to walk back to his vehicle and there is absolutely no evidence that Martin suddenly stopped walking away from Zimmerman to get to where he was staying, within a few dozen feet from where he was murdered, to start following a retreating Zimmerman. All evidence indicates that Zimmerman's claim to this effect is a complete lie. It is you who are doing the ASSuming.

[RoBoTeq]

Exactly
Good. You are getting fascinated with someone else. Maybe he will spoon with you...:gah:

[RoBoTeq]

More of your half baked theory , a theory btw is an unproven idea, kinda like evolution.
In any case , you and robo continue to spin this without having any first hand knowledge besides what the media whores are telling you.
This coming from someone who has fantasized so much about spooning with me that he has posted that he actually did.....oh yea....who da whore now?

[RoBoTeq]

And you base your opinion on what Somedude....... You cant trust zimmerman because he has no way to back up his story.....he killed a man and he is going to say anything he has to in order to keep from going to jail.

I dont care if zims neighborhood was overrun by hoodlums.... he still should have called the police....like he had done before and waited for them to respond.

There is no reason in this world that trayvon should be dead... I know he is a black kid that smoked pot and to many americans that is a good reason.....but in the real world it was just another wrongfull death.

He saw a lone vulnerable kid walking thru his hood......he fiqured it would make a nice story to tell at his criminal whatever school..... he did something stupid and ended up killing an innocent person....

He needs to be punished for it just because he wont learn his lesson from his stupid mistakes unless he is punished in some form.

If he gets away with it he will probably be out here standing outside 7-11s popping every black kid he sees.

Anyhow.... none of us know the true facts of this case because we are never going to have two sides of the story to judge the facts from.

Zimmermans fate is in the hands of the legal system and that means if his lawyers are better than the prosecution...he will walk...... If his lawyers are a couple of dumbasses then he is going to jail.

Thats what justice is in america..... good lawyers set you free....bad lawyers get you put away.

Evidence and facts mean nothing in a court of law when it all comes down to it.

We saw that with OJ.....
I may not like doing so, but I have to once again agree with you.

[RoBoTeq]

I can see that you like good lawyers corny because you must need them with all those fights you start. I'm also surprised that you are still breathing since in right to carry states you can get blown away for that just like your buddy Trayvon there.

It's unfortunate that Trayvon had to learn his lesson the hard way. Right now it is Zimmerman that we should be concerned about here. Don't want to see him hung out to dry on the alter of PC and mob rule.

You should ask your good neighbors what they think about it. My relatives in Tennessee see it Zimmerman's way. Thank you, thank you very much
Martin did not learn any lesson. Martin was murdered by someone I wouldn't let near my family, who so far has not learned his lesson from any of the multiple acts of violence he has commited over the years. At least Zimmerman may stop causing so much trouble and acting out so violently against so many others if he is found guilty of at least something.

[Hugh B]

Zimmerman has already paid a great deal for his actions. If I was on his jury given what we currently know I would not convict. He would go on his way with his life as he knows it destroyed. That's enough.

[corny]

I wrote a response to Glenns last comment about me but it turned out so bizarre and went sooooooooo off topic I deleted it....

I will respond again but I think I need to let my head clear a bit.

[corny]

Zimmerman has already paid a great deal for his actions. If I was on his jury given what we currently know I would not convict. He would go on his way with his life as he knows it destroyed. That's enough.

Id say the cops have some evidence or something...... I dont think that they charged that fetal position taking coward just because a bunch of people got up in arms about it.

Might not be enough to convict but then again it might be.

We just dont know.....

[k-fridge]

Some posts have been reported. Careful with the inflammatory or insulting comments please.

[hearthman]

There is no evidence that Zimmerman did not have his gun drawn as he continued to "hunt down" Martin. Nor is there any evidence that both Zimmerman AND Martin both completely changed their attitudes in the last minute before Zimmerman murdered Martin. There is absolutely no evidence that Zimmerman suddenly stopped stalking Martin and turned completely around to walk back to his vehicle and there is absolutely no evidence that Martin suddenly stopped walking away from Zimmerman to get to where he was staying, within a few dozen feet from where he was murdered, to start following a retreating Zimmerman. All evidence indicates that Zimmerman's claim to this effect is a complete lie. It is you who are doing the ASSuming.

Is that all your have Robo--a lack of what evidence proves his guilt? If there are no witnesses claiming to have seen a drawn gun then how do you ASSume he did? There was the one witness who saw Martin on top of Zimm. That's kinda' hard to achieve against someone with a drawn gun. If the gun was drawn and Zimm was stalking Martin, how did Martin end up on top of Zimm without getting shot by a guy you alledge was hunting him. In most cases, people tend to shoot someone before they get too close. That's why they use guns instead of knives. If Martin ambushed Zimm and Zimm had his gun drawn, would he wrestle control of the gun and either shoot Zimm or hold him at gunpoint or wrestle with Zimm, get on top of him, IGNORE THE GUN and instead hit his head?

Admit it Robo, you are desperate to convict and execute Zimm in this case regardless of facts or a dearth thereof. Conviction takes proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a much higher standard of care than a preponderance of evidence as required in civil trials. That means the jury has to weigh all these scenarios then determine which fits not near or up to but BEYOND a reasonable doubt. That's a stiff benchmark to make, especially when much of the evidence to convict is circumstantial. Undoubtedly more evidence will come out in court. Some will be diminished and some will be disallowed. It will be interesting and I hope IF Zimm is guilty that the facts bear this and he gets convicted to the charge and degree comensurate with crime. Otherwise, he walks.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate you cleaning up your language and knock off the sexual inuendos and connotations. No place for it here and you know that. :bhave:

[Brian GC]

Conviction takes proof beyond a reasonable doubt…

Not so. A jury will convict or acquit on whatever evidence they feel like.

It has to do with who has the better attorney. Who spun the best evidence or reasonable doubt. And most of all, what baggage and gullibility each juror came into the courtroom with.

[Some Dude]

Not so. A jury will convict or acquit on whatever evidence they feel like.

It has to do with who has the better attorney. Who spun the best evidence or reasonable doubt. And most of all, what baggage and gullibility each juror came into the courtroom with.

You may have something there.
The law in essence is based of one thing and it isnt right or wrong, its based on
' what can be proven'
In an American society so degenerated they elected obummer, nothing would surprise me.

[corny]

From most of the attitudes on this thread I doubt very few posting have ever fathered or raised a child.

[Brian GC]

From most of the attitudes on this thread I doubt very few posting have ever fathered or raised a child.

I agree.

Could you imagine these guys saying that their sons deserve to be dead because they punched a guy who stalked them and then confronted them face-to-face in a dark secluded area?

I still believe this is way more about race than anyone is letting on. I’d like to see the vote if the race component was reversed. And, where is the defense for the hot-headed black guys that shoot white guys for cutting through thier hood?

[the dangling wrangler]

A Moot Point

A debatable question, an issue open to argument; also, an irrelevant question, a matter of no importance. For example, Whether Shakespeare actually wrote the poem remains a moot point among critics , or It's a moot point whether the chicken or the egg came first . This term originated in British law where it described a point for discussion in a moot , or assembly, of law students. By the early 1700s it was being used more loosely in the present sense.

[glennac]

I wrote a response to Glenns last comment about me but it turned out so bizarre and went sooooooooo off topic I deleted it....

I will respond again but I think I need to let my head clear a bit.

Hey lighten up corny. You are the one who has said more than once that you have starter several fights and got your ass whipped. I was simply commenting that that sort of thing can get a fella killed in a right to carry state or even in NY, NY.

Once had a buddy from Nam who got shot to death in NY city in 73 three years after going home. Got into an argument in a bar and they stepped outside and the next thing that happened was they found him dead in the parking lot. Got this from another Nam buddy from NY city.

We all served in the same unit and looked them up in the fall of 70 when I got discharged in Sept of 70 at Ft Dix, NJ. Hopped a bus to NY and all three of us had a good night on the town (they were Irish). All most got into it with some PRs. They got thrown out of the club and then the management asked us to leave after they left.

One of them spilled a drink on me walking by and my buddies and I hollered at the jerks who were acting macho. They drew back like they wanted a fight and my friend stepped right away and the bouncer kicked the AHs out. He was a little hot headed apparently like you and that got him killed.

I have two sons by the way and none of them get into fights or have attitude. When I was Martin's age I was respectful of authority and I never would have got upset at Zimmerman asking me "what's up". Just respectfully told him I was going home. I wouldn't push back on a neighbor watch guy doing his job, not al all and definitely not attack him.

That is where I'm coming from corny. We apparently have two different personalities and beliefs entirely on this issue. I stand by what I said though. Not that I want any harm to come to you but you do or have practiced very risky behavior in the past. Thank you, thank you very much

55% now say Not Guilty:grin2::whistle:

[the dangling wrangler]

https://www.google.com/search?q=trayvon+thug&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[hearthman]

The poll was based on what each of us knows at this time, how would we decide. It is not how we think the jury will decide but us personally. It is not whether or not if we think Zimm is guilty or not but how WE would decide. I might think deep down inside Zimm is guitly as sin but if I'm not convinced of his guilt, then I find not guilty of anything.

I hope one lesson that comes out of this case is how both men had ample opportunity to avert this situatino and both probably contributed to it in hindsight.

For me, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. So far, I have not been convinced of his guilt. There are certainly scenarios where with more evidence, it might be proven but using the test of 'beyond a reasonable doubt', I don't see where the case has been made. Perhaps some slam dunk evidence will come out in court but I haven't seen it yet. That's my take on it. However, I feel I remain open and objective, which a few here clearly are not. Open and objective implies more than one possibility. An absolutists is not open or objective.

[corny]

Nobody is innocent until proven guilty in the court of public opinion........

OJ, Casey Anthony.... both skewered in the court of public opinion......but both walked.....because a jury of their peers found reasonable doubt in the prosecutions case.

And in my opinion....both are cold blooded killers...... but of course my opinion doesnt matter as I didnt sit on the jury for either case.

Zimmerman didnt need to follow that kid..... its as simple as that.

By the way... and just for you racist ***** who will find it humorous...... tray was carrying a watermelon flavored arizona iced tea.

Its in the evidence photos that have been released.

[corny]

Hey lighten up corny. You are the one who has said more than once that you have starter several fights and got your ass whipped. I was simply commenting that that sort of thing can get a fella killed in a right to carry state or even in NY, NY.

Once had a buddy from Nam who got shot to death in NY city in 73 three years after going home. Got into an argument in a bar and they stepped outside and the next thing that happened was they found him dead in the parking lot. Got this from another Nam buddy from NY city.

We all served in the same unit and looked them up in the fall of 70 when I got discharged in Sept of 70 at Ft Dix, NJ. Hopped a bus to NY and all three of us had a good night on the town (they were Irish). All most got into it with some PRs. They got thrown out of the club and then the management asked us to leave after they left.

One of them spilled a drink on me walking by and my buddies and I hollered at the jerks who were acting macho. They drew back like they wanted a fight and my friend stepped right away and the bouncer kicked the AHs out. He was a little hot headed apparently like you and that got him killed.

I have two sons by the way and none of them get into fights or have attitude. When I was Martin's age I was respectful of authority and I never would have got upset at Zimmerman asking me "what's up". Just respectfully told him I was going home. I wouldn't push back on a neighbor watch guy doing his job, not al all and definitely not attack him.

That is where I'm coming from corny. We apparently have two different personalities and beliefs entirely on this issue. I stand by what I said though. Not that I want any harm to come to you but you do or have practiced very risky behavior in the past. Thank you, thank you very much

55% now say Not Guilty:grin2::whistle:

Thats what this forum is all about Glenn...opinions..... yours differs from mine.... but its all good.... If we all agreed on the same things it would be a very boring forum.

[glennac]

.............OJ, Casey Anthony.... both skewered in the court of public opinion......but both walked.....because a jury of their peers found reasonable doubt in the prosecutions case.....

With all due respect corny I do disagree with that statement in regards to the OJ case. Everyone in the world knew he was guilty beyond any reasonable doubt including the jury. He was let go because 11 Black jurors who didn't care how guilty or innocent he was.

IMHO it was because he was an Icon, a hero, etc the greatest Black football player of modern times. That was why he was found innocent. They celebrated and cheered. The lone White woman on the jury was brow beaten into going along with the rest and she said after the trial that she thought OJ was guilty as sin but couldn't stand the pressure from the other jurors so she relented and went along with the rest.

They managed to get two other White jurors thrown off because they wouldn't go along and were accused of not paying attention, deliberating and being too argumentative and the judge went along. They wanted to get out of that hell hole of the jury room anyhow.

You are correct on the Casey case. I wasn't there but the jurors just claimed that the case wasn't proven sufficiently but they did think she was guilty. Good man corny you got 1 out of 2 right here. :grin2: Just kidding. Have a good night. Thank you, thank you very mucn

[Six]

I agree.

Could you imagine these guys saying that their sons deserve to be dead because they punched a guy who stalked them and then confronted them face-to-face in a dark secluded area?

I still believe this is way more about race than anyone is letting on. I’d like to see the vote if the race component was reversed. And, where is the defense for the hot-headed black guys that shoot white guys for cutting through thier hood?

Your'e calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a racist ? Thats so week. Truth is the real racist are the ones that are calling for immediate action against Zimmerman because they were dumb enough to buy into the medias manufactured racial component.

Also who stupid enough to start a fist fight in a state with conceal carry permits ??

The defenders of martin have to resort to dishonesty to make their point.

Its not about race and martin didnt just punch him. he was slamming his head unto the side walk

[Brian GC]

You’re calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a racist ? That’s so week. Truth is the real racists are the ones that are calling for immediate action against Zimmerman because they were dumb enough to buy into the medias manufactured racial component.

I didn’t call anyone a racist. That is a very strong word. I said race plays a part in their decision. And I think it is disgusting how the media backs Martin, but that doesn’t affect my decision.


Also who stupid enough to start a fist fight in a state with conceal carry permits??

A conceal carry law doesn’t give someone the right to instigate a fight, no throw the first punch, but blow the other guy away when a fight ensues. Zimmerman walked into a fight.


The defenders of martin have to resort to dishonesty to make their point.

The defenders of Zimmerman must rely on his story being an honest one, which is a stretch.


It’s not about race and martin didn’t just punch him. He was slamming his head unto the side walk

After the first punch, anything goes. If he got his teeth knocked out, so be it. It’s what happens in a fight. Zimmerman was in control of the situation and should have never got close enough to Martin for a fight to break out. Real men don’t settle fist fights with a gun. Haven’t you ever seen a western movie?

I’m sure Florida’s conceal carry law was intended for protection of crime victims, not guys who look for trouble and get their ass beat.

[Six]

I didn’t call anyone a racist. That is a very strong word. I said race plays a part in their decision. And I think it is disgusting how the media backs Martin, but that doesn’t affect my decision.



A conceal carry law doesn’t give someone the right to instigate a fight, no throw the first punch, but blow the other guy away when a fight ensues. Zimmerman walked into a fight.



The defenders of Zimmerman must rely on his story being an honest one, which is a stretch.



After the first punch, anything goes. If he got his teeth knocked out, so be it. It’s what happens in a fight. Zimmerman was in control of the situation and should have never got close enough to Martin for a fight to break out. Real men don’t settle fist fights with a gun. Haven’t you ever seen a western movie?

I’m sure Florida’s conceal carry law was intended for protection of crime victims, not guys who look for trouble and get their ass beat.


Your using the race card to bolster your argument where no racial component exist. Its a racist way of settling a debate.

Also the guy that killed the low life in Texas that was raping his daughter. How did he kill him ?

Your assertion that real men dont use guns in a fist fight only works in fairy tale land.

Also having your head slammed into the concrete isnt exactly a fistt fight.

You have every right to use deadly force in the real world to stop some one from beating on you.

How do you know he's going to stop at just an ass kicking ?

You dont .

[the dangling wrangler]

I'm partial to my own race.
Somebody doesn't like that, it's their problem, not mine.

Comm, you're pi$$in' up a rope trying to make your point to some members here.

[Six]

I'm partial to my own race.
Somebody doesn't like that, it's their problem, not mine.

Comm, you're pi$$in' up a rope trying to make your point to some members here.

True that.

But at least they got a alternative opinion based on common sense and integrity.

Whether they agree or not they need to know how absurd their position is.

Im proud of my race and heritage too. I make no apologies for being related to a culture that brought about technological advances and engineering advances that made modern life possible.


Years of attending a school district where I was taught that only one race was allowed to be proud of their heritage taught me early on the hypocricy of the inclusive culture.


I teach my children the same. Not to judge on the basis of skin color but to be proud of who they are.

Of where they came from and what their German and English ancestors accomplished.

The real racist are the people who use the accusation of racism to win a argument

[glennac]

True that.

But at least they got a alternative opinion based on common sense and integrity.

Whether they agree or not they need to know how absurd their position is.

Im proud of my race and heritage too. I make no apologies for being related to a culture that brought about technological advances and engineering advances that made modern life possible.


Years of attending a school district where I was taught that only one race was allowed to be proud of their heritage taught me early on the hypocricy of the inclusive culture.


I teach my children the same. Not to judge on the basis of skin color but to be proud of who they are.

Of where they came from and what their German and English ancestors accomplished.

The real racist are the people who use the accusation of racism to win a argument

Right on both you, commtech and DW. Expect I don't know if the pro Martin and or anti Zimmerman crowd have an opinion based on common sense and integrity. Good posts both of you. Thank you, thank you very much

[the dangling wrangler]

We've got at least one kid around town that acts like he and Crayon are twin brothers. He almost got blown away by a shotgun owning concerned neighbor last week. I say both Crayon & Chad are without a doubt recidivists.
If I've posted this before, excuse me please.


http://search.abclocal.go.com/search/client?st=ktrk&q=chad+holley&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

[Six]

True equslity is Al Shsrptons and Hesse Jacksons worst enemy. A man regardless of the color of his skin has to compete on a level playing field is the last thing they want.
Black fire fighters getting promoted over their white counterparts even though they couldnt pass the test after multiple attempts is not equality.

Students that get picked over higher scoring or more intelligent stzdents because of their skin is darker.

Entire school systems being dumbed down because standards had to be lowered to appease the under achievers.


It ensures a society mired in mediocrite.


There are kids graduating out of local High Schools who cant read or write.

Is that the fault of the "white man" ?

For f*** sake take some responsibillity for yourself people.

[the dangling wrangler]

Anybody remember what happened back in the day?

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm

[RoBoTeq]

Is that all your have Robo--a lack of what evidence proves his guilt? If there are no witnesses claiming to have seen a drawn gun then how do you ASSume he did? There was the one witness who saw Martin on top of Zimm. That's kinda' hard to achieve against someone with a drawn gun. If the gun was drawn and Zimm was stalking Martin, how did Martin end up on top of Zimm without getting shot by a guy you alledge was hunting him. In most cases, people tend to shoot someone before they get too close. That's why they use guns instead of knives. If Martin ambushed Zimm and Zimm had his gun drawn, would he wrestle control of the gun and either shoot Zimm or hold him at gunpoint or wrestle with Zimm, get on top of him, IGNORE THE GUN and instead hit his head?

Admit it Robo, you are desperate to convict and execute Zimm in this case regardless of facts or a dearth thereof. Conviction takes proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a much higher standard of care than a preponderance of evidence as required in civil trials. That means the jury has to weigh all these scenarios then determine which fits not near or up to but BEYOND a reasonable doubt. That's a stiff benchmark to make, especially when much of the evidence to convict is circumstantial. Undoubtedly more evidence will come out in court. Some will be diminished and some will be disallowed. It will be interesting and I hope IF Zimm is guilty that the facts bear this and he gets convicted to the charge and degree comensurate with crime. Otherwise, he walks.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate you cleaning up your language and knock off the sexual inuendos and connotations. No place for it here and you know that. :bhave:
HEY! I'm not the one who started the sex talk! Once again, I was accussed of doing something that I had not done, this time in a sexual nature. A guy has to protect his virginal image, ya know?

And, all I wanted was for this case to be brought to trial because it reeked of elitism. What happens to Zimmerman is really none of my concern. I still would not want the man anywhere near myself or my family.

[Some Dude]

HEY! I'm not the one who started the sex talk! Once again, I was accussed of doing something that I had not done, this time in a sexual nature. A guy has to protect his virginal image, ya know?

And, all I wanted was for this case to be brought to trial because it reeked of elitism. What happens to Zimmerman is really none of my concern. I still would not want the man anywhere near myself or my family.

Somebody call the waaaaambalance , you have been accused of many things you have done and denied them too.

Zimmerman cannot get a fair trial now no matter what, crayon and was at least 50 % at fault anyway, but since the media turned it into a race thing , everybody loses.

[corny]

With my prescription savings this month.....the bill dropped 60 bucks..... I think I am going to go online and find me an "I am Lamont Sanford" hoodie.....

[glennac]

Anybody remember what happened back in the day?

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/special/racial_incidents.htm

Good link there DW. Witnessed crap like that while I was in service and I have mentioned several in the past and one just about two weeks ago in a closed free Zimmerman thread.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=13387221&postcount=291

Things were real heavy back then thanks in part to Martin Luther King calling this a White man's war.

At Camp Kaiser Korea (1968) while walking to the NCO Club at night I saw 4 Black soldiers jump on White soldier about a block away knocking him to the ground and kicking him. I immediately ran toward them as fast as I could run and didn't care what happened to me I was going to kill them if possible, gouge an eyeball, etc. They saw me flying at them and all four ran off. I got to him and helped him to the medical company near by. He had a cracked rib, cracked tooth and bruises and they didn't get his wallet. I helped save him and did not care about my own safety so I am no coward nor am I a bully who wants to start fights. I stand my ground and do whatever I can to help someone else in danger.

There are several other things I witnesses including an unreported fire fight inside Tay Ninh Base camp in 1969 where some crazed Black soldiers opened up fire on a stand down party from a company of the 25 ID. Everyone grabbed their guns and hunted them down, no prisoners. It was hell when you can't trust your back because Martin Luther King, Jr., described the Vietnam conflict as racist—"a white man's war". And said that this was a war against non Whites. He legitimized the Black militants in the military. Most folks don't even remember that but it was for real. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Good link there DW. Witnessed crap like that while I was in service and I have mentioned several in the past and one just about two weeks ago in a closed free Zimmerman thread.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=13387221&postcount=291

Things were real heavy back then thanks in part to Martin Luther King calling this a White man's war.

At Camp Kaiser Korea (1968) while walking to the NCO Club at night I saw 4 Black soldiers jump on White soldier about a block away knocking him to the ground and kicking him. I immediately ran toward them as fast as I could run and didn't care what happened to me I was going to kill them if possible, gouge an eyeball, etc. They saw me flying at them and all four ran off. I got to him and helped him to the medical company near by. He had a cracked rib, cracked tooth and bruises and they didn't get his wallet. I helped save him and did not care about my own safety so I am no coward nor am I a bully who wants to start fights. I stand my ground and do whatever I can to help someone else in danger.

There are several other things I witnesses including an unreported fire fight inside Tay Ninh Base camp in 1969 where some crazed Black soldiers opened up fire on a stand down party from a company of the 25 ID. Everyone grabbed their guns and hunted them down, no prisoners. It was hell when you can't trust your back because Martin Luther King, Jr., described the Vietnam conflict as racist—"a white man's war". And said that this was a war against non Whites. He legitimized the Black militants in the military. Most folks don't even remember that but it was for real. Thank you, thank you very much
I remember reading about that guy you saved from those Black soldiers. Turned out he was one of a dozen KKK members who had recently raped and killed one of the Black guys daughters. Way to go, Superman...:grin2:

[glennac]

I remember reading about that guy you saved from those Black soldiers. Turned out he was one of a dozen KKK members who had recently raped and killed one of the Black guys daughters. Way to go, Superman...:grin2:

Very funny robo. If I remember correctly the guy had a Yankee accent wasn't even from the South.:whistle: :grin2: I heard that you were going to Orlando to be a character witness for Martin and against Zimmerman and in addition to paying all your expenses they were going to throw in some family passes to Sea World and Disney World plus a Caribbean cruise. Have fun:grin2:. Thank you, thank you very much

[the dangling wrangler]

Good link there DW. Witnessed crap like that while I was in service and I have mentioned several in the past and one just about two weeks ago in a closed free Zimmerman thread.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=13387221&postcount=291

Things were real heavy back then thanks in part to Martin Luther King calling this a White man's war.

At Camp Kaiser Korea (1968) while walking to the NCO Club at night I saw 4 Black soldiers jump on White soldier about a block away knocking him to the ground and kicking him. I immediately ran toward them as fast as I could run and didn't care what happened to me I was going to kill them if possible, gouge an eyeball, etc. They saw me flying at them and all four ran off. I got to him and helped him to the medical company near by. He had a cracked rib, cracked tooth and bruises and they didn't get his wallet. I helped save him and did not care about my own safety so I am no coward nor am I a bully who wants to start fights. I stand my ground and do whatever I can to help someone else in danger.

There are several other things I witnesses including an unreported fire fight inside Tay Ninh Base camp in 1969 where some crazed Black soldiers opened up fire on a stand down party from a company of the 25 ID. Everyone grabbed their guns and hunted them down, no prisoners. It was hell when you can't trust your back because Martin Luther King, Jr., described the Vietnam conflict as racist—"a white man's war". And said that this was a war against non Whites. He legitimized the Black militants in the military. Most folks don't even remember that but it was for real. Thank you, thank you very much

Yes, I remember that reply. It's either this thread, or the other one that was closed. Guess it was reopened.
Boy, some members are extremely sensitive when you don't say what they want to hear, aren't they?


I guess those that served in war understand. When a life has to be taken, it has to be. Weather you agree, or not.
I feel, Zimmerman did what had to be done,at that exact moment in time.

[Some Dude]

Yes, I remember that reply. It's either this thread, or the other one that was closed. Guess it was reopened.
Boy, some members are extremely sensitive when you don't say what they want to hear, aren't they?


I guess those that served in war understand. When a life has to be taken, it has to be. Weather you agree, or not.
I feel, Zimmerman did what had to be done,at that exact moment in time.

Thats why we are buddies John, im going to get in touch with you once i get moved to Cali , flying out this thursday.

[the dangling wrangler]

Thats why we are buddies John, im going to get in touch with you once i get moved to Cali , flying out this thursday.

Hopefully I'll have my old number back by then.(supposed to happen by this Friday,again) I chucked the cell a few weeks ago. And been fighting to get my cell number ported to a land line ever since. Talk about stress. If ya can't reach me at the number you have, PM me, and I'll give ya the temporary land line.

[the dangling wrangler]

Here's an old 'Nam song. But, it fits in with todays wars as well.
I never fought, but lost lots of friends over there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aLx8R0JT8

[RoBoTeq]

Yes, I remember that reply. It's either this thread, or the other one that was closed. Guess it was reopened.
Boy, some members are extremely sensitive when you don't say what they want to hear, aren't they?


I guess those that served in war understand. When a life has to be taken, it has to be. Weather you agree, or not.
I feel, Zimmerman did what had to be done,at that exact moment in time.
And Charlie Manson just did what had to be done at the time as well....:whistle:

[RoBoTeq]

Here's an old 'Nam song. But, it fits in with todays wars as well.
I never fought, but lost lots of friends over there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aLx8R0JT8
That was more of an anti-war song. Grand Funk Railroad was a pretty pathetic band compared to the super groups around at the same time, but a better GFR song for zimmerman would be this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A12GettHK6Y

[barbar]

For those who are not partial to other races, I would suggest you put them in a slow cooker add a few herbs, makes them nice and tender.
If you are not to greedy you may not end up being Big and an Ot
Nam that was a game well won by the home team, wish I had but a bet on that game. What would have been the odds at the start of the game. 50-1???

[cool-in-cayman]

True equslity is Al Shsrptons and Hesse Jacksons worst enemy. A man regardless of the color of his skin has to compete on a level playing field is the last thing they want.
Black fire fighters getting promoted over their white counterparts even though they couldnt pass the test after multiple attempts is not equality.

Students that get picked over higher scoring or more intelligent stzdents because of their skin is darker.

Entire school systems being dumbed down because standards had to be lowered to appease the under achievers.


It ensures a society mired in mediocrite.


There are kids graduating out of local High Schools who cant read or write.

Is that the fault of the "white man" ?

For f*** sake take some responsibillity for yourself people.

Yes it is the fault of the white man. White liberals to be more specific. They have perpetrated more racism on this country than most want to imagine. It is mostly white liberal racism that is responsible for the racist laws and statues that foster lowered standards and expectations for blacks. In short, liberals don't expect much out of black people. That's racism...yes sir.

[barbar]

Yes it is the fault of the white man. White liberals to be more specific. They have perpetrated more racism on this country than most want to imagine. It is mostly white liberal racism that is responsible for the racist laws and statues that foster lowered standards and expectations for blacks. In short, liberals don't expect much out of black people. That's racism...yes sir.

Should of kept them as slaves, cook em up when they are no longer productive.??????? yum yum!!!!!, What it would be to be a conservative.

[glennac]

Here's an old 'Nam song. But, it fits in with todays wars as well.
I never fought, but lost lots of friends over there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2aLx8R0JT8


Good song there DW but here is my favorite "Still in Saigon" Charlie Daniels. Kinda relate to this song. Thank you, thank you very much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOaDmpdgag

[glennac]

For those who are not partial to other races, I would suggest you put them in a slow cooker add a few herbs, makes them nice and tender.
If you are not to greedy you may not end up being Big and an Ot
Nam that was a game well won by the home team, wish I had but a bet on that game. What would have been the odds at the start of the game. 50-1???

Sounds like your happy the commies won. Wouldn't have if the commie loving Democrats didn't pull the plug on us and our allies including New Zealand I might add also. Funny going against your own soldiers and Western Civilization and Culture.

Perhaps I am misreading your post. So I will back off and let you say again how you feel about it. I'll cut you some slack here. Thank you, thank you very much

[glennac]

Should of kept them as slaves, cook em up when they are no longer productive.??????? yum yum!!!!!, What it would be to be a conservative.

Well I guess I didn't misread you. You appear to be way out in left field and could say some things but I won't. IMO you do not deserve to live in New Zealand or any other Western country. Perhaps the in the culture of the 3rd world, communism, Islam or Africa would be more suited to you with your mind set. Wow is all I can say. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Should of kept them as slaves, cook em up when they are no longer productive.??????? yum yum!!!!!, What it would be to be a conservative.
Well, being both conservative and liberal as well as a bit indistinctly odd, I would like to point out that over the centuries there is not one ethnic group that has not been slaves at one point or another or has not been bigoted of some other group at one point or another. It is an unfortunate feature of human nature to be negative about our differences rather then to celebrate them and enjoy them.

New Zealanders certainly have no right to a pious attitude when it comes to bigotry. I am not speaking of anyone specifically, and certainly not you, barbar, just saying that there are bigoted ghosts in all of our closets somewhere.

[hearthman]

Yes it is the fault of the white man. White liberals to be more specific. They have perpetrated more racism on this country than most want to imagine. It is mostly white liberal racism that is responsible for the racist laws and statues that foster lowered standards and expectations for blacks. In short, liberals don't expect much out of black people. That's racism...yes sir.

I beg to differ on expectations for blacks by liberals. The libs expected not only their votes but to constantly stir things up, squawk about injusties, 'fairness', reparations, and riot when they didn't get what they wanted. All the ensuing chaos was exactly what the liberals wanted because they could spin that into the need for more government, more programs, more spending which equals more slaves and more power to them. I'm ashamed the blacks haven't awakened to realize just how badly they have been used and enslaved by their liberal masters.

[RoBoTeq]

Sounds like your happy the commies won. Wouldn't have if the commie loving Democrats didn't pull the plug on us and our allies including New Zealand I might add also. Funny going against your own soldiers and Western Civilization and Culture.

Perhaps I am misreading your post. So I will back off and let you say again how you feel about it. I'll cut you some slack here. Thank you, thank you very much
I think the point barbar was making is that we didn't belong in Vietnam in the first place, which I agree. It was America's Socialist regime that got us into Nam in the first place and then fabricated an attack on a U.S. ship to escalate it.

It never ceases to amaze me how you keep claiming to be such a commie hating conservative until it comes time to praise Socialist elites like JFK, Johnson and Dershowitz when it suits your support of leftist actions.

Every American who stepped foot in Vietnam and Cambodia deserves the complete respect of all Americans for doing what they either believed in or were simply ordered to do in the name of U.S. policy. Unfortunately, the whole thing should have been left up to others to deal with. The only reason the U.S. got so heavily involved was to promote the U.S. war machine for profit.

[barbar]

Well I guess I didn't misread you. You appear to be way out in left field and could say some things but I won't. IMO you do not deserve to live in New Zealand or any other Western country. Perhaps the in the culture of the 3rd world, communism, Islam or Africa would be more suited to you with your mind set. Wow is all I can say. Thank you, thank you very much

Well Glenn, who can not take a joke now.
The points made, is that our history is not all sunshine and roses, and in New Zealand we also had cannibals (A bit of history). If it were not for lateral minded people (I will not use the word liberal, as this has different meaning between us), then the good and the bad would not of changed.
I will not judge your or our or any race based upon forefathers failures, neither by the successes. The past has gone, it can not be changed, We can only change the future by our actions.
So my statement is just as ridiculous as many of the conservative statements made in these threads.
PS we are sheep shaggers as well. (JOKE)

[barbar]

Sounds like your happy the commies won. Wouldn't have if the commie loving Democrats didn't pull the plug on us and our allies including New Zealand I might add also. Funny going against your own soldiers and Western Civilization and Culture.

Perhaps I am misreading your post. So I will back off and let you say again how you feel about it. I'll cut you some slack here. Thank you, thank you very much

Firstly I have great respect for all honorable soldiers "period".
I see nam as 2 bully boys shyting in some one else's back yard. The nam culture should be left in Nam, why should you force western culture on them.?
The commies won, what difference did it make "nothing" The war should not of happened!
If you had of won, what would of happened, a big shyte fight with China or USSR??

[barbar]

Well, being both conservative and liberal as well as a bit indistinctly odd, I would like to point out that over the centuries there is not one ethnic group that has not been slaves at one point or another or has not been bigoted of some other group at one point or another. It is an unfortunate feature of human nature to be negative about our differences rather then to celebrate them and enjoy them.

New Zealanders certainly have no right to a pious attitude when it comes to bigotry. I am not speaking of anyone specifically, and certainly not you, barbar, just saying that there are bigoted ghosts in all of our closets somewhere.

I totally agree.
We are all bigots of some form or description, some by nurture and some by experience (normally a bit of both), should we just except it or attempt to better ourselves.

[cool-in-cayman]

I beg to differ on expectations for blacks by liberals. The libs expected not only their votes but to constantly stir things up, squawk about injusties, 'fairness', reparations, and riot when they didn't get what they wanted. All the ensuing chaos was exactly what the liberals wanted because they could spin that into the need for more government, more programs, more spending which equals more slaves and more power to them. I'm ashamed the blacks haven't awakened to realize just how badly they have been used and enslaved by their liberal masters.

Yeah that's true, but that is not really what I'm talking about. I was talking about the bigotry of lowered expectations in relation to: Reading, writing, math, being a productive member of society. Liberals don't think blacks are up to it because...well...they're black. It is up to them (white liberals) to provide for them because they view them as incapable of achieving the same standards as whites.

[cool-in-cayman]

Firstly I have great respect for all honorable soldiers "period".
I see nam as 2 bully boys shyting in some one else's back yard. The nam culture should be left in Nam, why should you force western culture on them.?
The commies won, what difference did it make "nothing" The war should not of happened!
If you had of won, what would of happened, a big shyte fight with China or USSR??

I wonder if the millions of vietnamese who were slaughtered after the u.s. pulled out would agree with your view. They were slaughtered because they did not fall in line...the communist line.

The communist regime forced it iron fist on an entire population.

The war may have been misguided, but the effort was noble in the minds of most free people.

Same thing happened in Cambodia. Pol Pot.

[cool-in-cayman]

Should of kept them as slaves, cook em up when they are no longer productive.??????? yum yum!!!!!, What it would be to be a conservative.

Thanks, all who have read your scribblings are all a little dumber...congrats.

[barbar]

Thanks, all who have read your scribblings are all a little dumber...congrats.
Well that is good, you have proved me wrong, yet again, you can get dumber.:bump:
Pleased I can still be taught something new. Must be the liberal in me!!!!!!!!!

[barbar]

I wonder if the millions of vietnamese who were slaughtered after the u.s. pulled out would agree with your view. They were slaughtered because they did not fall in line...the communist line.

The communist regime forced it iron fist on an entire population.

The war may have been misguided, but the effort was noble in the minds of most free people.

Same thing happened in Cambodia. Pol Pot.

Verses the 5million + killed directly because of the war. (pick which evil you want, neither is right)

I think you will find that most intelligent free people think it was just a pure waste.

No excuses for a sadist barstwrerd like POL POT

[RoBoTeq]

I totally agree.
We are all bigots of some form or description, some by nurture and some by experience (normally a bit of both), should we just except it or attempt to better ourselves.
From your postings, I'll assume that you, like myself, want to at least attempt to better ourselves....:cheers:

[RoBoTeq]

Yeah that's true, but that is not really what I'm talking about. I was talking about the bigotry of lowered expectations in relation to: Reading, writing, math, being a productive member of society. Liberals don't think blacks are up to it because...well...they're black. It is up to them (white liberals) to provide for them because they view them as incapable of achieving the same standards as whites.
You are absolutely correct on this. The leftists used and abused ethnic minorities by convincing everyone that those minorities are not as good as White folks and so we Whiteys need to taking care of them.

Ironically, Obama himself is living proof that leftist Socialists are wrong about ethnic minorities in the U.S.

[RoBoTeq]

I wonder if the millions of vietnamese who were slaughtered after the u.s. pulled out would agree with your view. They were slaughtered because they did not fall in line...the communist line.

The communist regime forced it iron fist on an entire population.

The war may have been misguided, but the effort was noble in the minds of most free people.

Same thing happened in Cambodia. Pol Pot.
We still had no right to get into that conflict. It was not our battle. It was not place to intercede in that part of the world at that time. We were never attacked by Vietcong, Chinese or even Russians.

As it turned out, the Vietnamese have adjusted quite well under their Communist regime and we are now kissing butt with the very Chinese that our American soldiers were being killed by while in Vietnam.

[RoBoTeq]

Verses the 5million + killed directly because of the war. (pick which evil you want, neither is right)

I think you will find that most intelligent free people think it was just a pure waste.

No excuses for a sadist barstwrerd like POL POT
It wasn't a complete waste for American industrialists who made a lot of money supplying that war. There is a reason for everything.

[glennac]

We still had no right to get into that conflict. It was not our battle. It was not place to intercede in that part of the world at that time. We were never attacked by Vietcong, Chinese or even Russians.

As it turned out, the Vietnamese have adjusted quite well under their Communist regime and we are now kissing butt with the very Chinese that our American soldiers were being killed by while in Vietnam.

Funny please explain that to lucky S Vietnamese soldiers, government officials and workers who survived 10 to 15 years in a "reeducation" camps. I have talked to several of the survivors who have been welcome guests at our monthly Nam veterans meetings. It would make your heart bleed. Can't imagine what happened to them and those who did not survive. Thank you, thank you very much

[glennac]

It wasn't a complete waste for American industrialists who made a lot of money supplying that war. There is a reason for everything.

Wrong again. While we should have gone into win instead of what LBJ did to convince N Vietnam to stop the invasion, the reason we went to war was to stop Communist expansion known as the domino theory and we squandered our chance and lost Laos, S Vietnam and Cambodia to the Communists. Thank you, thank you very much

[cool-in-cayman]

We still had no right to get into that conflict. It was not our battle. It was not place to intercede in that part of the world at that time. We were never attacked by Vietcong, Chinese or even Russians.

As it turned out, the Vietnamese have adjusted quite well under their Communist regime and we are now kissing butt with the very Chinese that our American soldiers were being killed by while in Vietnam.

Yeah, most people adjust once they see everyone who opposes the regime hauled off to "re-education" camps.

Millions of people adjusted to communism under the threat of being put in prison or killed.

Communism never works in practice, that's why the regimes that practice communism must silence opposition. And when I say silence them, I mean kill them.

Criminals adjust to prison too.

[cool-in-cayman]

Verses the 5million + killed directly because of the war. (pick which evil you want, neither is right)

I think you will find that most intelligent free people think it was just a pure waste.

No excuses for a sadist barstwrerd like POL POT

It's a waste because the communists were allowed to win. So to that extent I would agree.

However it seems that you believe there is no moral difference between a regime who is fighting, dying and killing in order to reign supreme authority over it's population and an army fighting, dying and killing in order to preserve basic human freedom and dignity.

If you can make no moral distinction between the two, I shrug my shoulders and shake my head like I do all the time. We have no shortage of people in this country who think exactly the way you do.
Personally I find it sickening and it sounds like Glenn has you pegged pretty good. People like you don't deserve freedom. Perhaps you would do better in Vietnam or N. korea.

[cool-in-cayman]

To Barbar fighting a war in an attempt to preserve basic human freedoms is the moral equivelent to marching detractors off to a pit somewhere and executing them because they believe something other than what the regime believes.

Same thing, dontcha know.

[coolwhip]

France was raping Vietnam of resources and Ho Chi didn't like it. When France got bogged down with fighting the Germans, Communist educated Ho Chi saw fit to try and take his country back from the exploits of the French frogs.

Then we got involved by some lies and deceit called The Gulf of Tonkin.

Then we lost 50,000 Americans fighting a useless war based on lies and deception.

People that have been Buddhists for generations pushed to become Catholic didn't sit well with many of the Vietminh. And watching their country being controlled by the French didn't sit well with them either.

Not that anyone should want Communism...but maybe this is better than being ruled by the French?

What would we do if Iran came on our land and started telling us what to think, building schools, taking our resources, and building rail systems to get those resources out of there as fast as possible?

We would fight!

[RoBoTeq]

Funny please explain that to lucky S Vietnamese soldiers, government officials and workers who survived 10 to 15 years in a "reeducation" camps. I have talked to several of the survivors who have been welcome guests at our monthly Nam veterans meetings. It would make your heart bleed. Can't imagine what happened to them and those who did not survive. Thank you, thank you very much
I didn't say we didn't do any good, just that it wasn't our place to be at that time. When JFK took office, we were not involved in any wars. Yet, JFK's acceptance speech took on an air of the U.S. protecting itself from it's enemies. That was a typical leftist speech designed to put the people into a state of fear. Was it to maintain political power through fear or was it to help American industrialists sell their wares for war, who knows. One thing we can be certain of is that we did not get involved in Vietnam with full intentions of helping out the Vietnamese. A lot less killing would have occured had the U.S. stayed out of that conflict.

American leftists used Vietnam from every angle they could. Vietnam was one of the most successful American liberal campaign ever designed and orchestrated by the American left. As it turned out, the Vietnamese people who stayed in Vietnam did quite well under their Communist victors. It is very similar to Cuba. We only hear from those who were discontent with the changes to these countries and not from those who stayed and adapted to the new regimes.

[RoBoTeq]

Wrong again. While we should have gone into win instead of what LBJ did to convince N Vietnam to stop the invasion, the reason we went to war was to stop Communist expansion known as the domino theory and we squandered our chance and lost Laos, S Vietnam and Cambodia to the Communists. Thank you, thank you very much
Oh come on now, Glenn. You've had enough years to figure out why we were really in Vietnam. We never intended to win, at least not quickly. LBJ escalated the war in Vietnam for the same reason JFK got us more involved, to keep Americans in fear. For this time period, Communism was the fear that these leftists were selling just as they sell global warming today.

Joe McDonald of Country Joe and the Fish was there in the Navy, and his parody song about why we were in Vietnam is pretty much on target; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xuUBCF3KKxc#t=22s

Remember, Glenn, this is another American soldier who fought in Vietnam who is a couple of years older then you.

[RoBoTeq]

Yeah, most people adjust once they see everyone who opposes the regime hauled off to "re-education" camps.

Millions of people adjusted to communism under the threat of being put in prison or killed.

Communism never works in practice, that's why the regimes that practice communism must silence opposition. And when I say silence them, I mean kill them.

Criminals adjust to prison too.
I agree that Communism does not work in practice. But we cannot cast stones at Communist re-education camps without acknowledging American Indian re-education facilities where Indian children were taken from their parents in order to be educated in the way of their victors.

I am not defending Communism. I have had a brief but eye opening oportunity to see how people of Cuba live under Communism, and their lives are quite impressive. The point is that living under one type of regime over another is mostly a matter of how much one is willing to accept and adapt to the faction in which they live under. I'm not real happy about the way American Socialist minded leaders are taking our country. So far, I have adapted. Who knows, I may someday decide to not take it any more an rebel. I'd rather see younger folks carry that flag, but they seem to be drining the Socialist Kool-Aid more then not.

[RoBoTeq]

It's a waste because the communists were allowed to win. So to that extent I would agree.

However it seems that you believe there is no moral difference between a regime who is fighting, dying and killing in order to reign supreme authority over it's population and an army fighting, dying and killing in order to preserve basic human freedom and dignity.

If you can make no moral distinction between the two, I shrug my shoulders and shake my head like I do all the time. We have no shortage of people in this country who think exactly the way you do.
Personally I find it sickening and it sounds like Glenn has you pegged pretty good. People like you don't deserve freedom. Perhaps you would do better in Vietnam or N. korea.
Define morality in terms of Communist versus Republic government. We in the U.S. are considered immoral by Communists and Muslims worldwide. Is their definition of what moral is wrong? Why?

[RoBoTeq]

France was raping Vietnam of resources and Ho Chi didn't like it. When France got bogged down with fighting the Germans, Communist educated Ho Chi saw fit to try and take his country back from the exploits of the French frogs.

Then we got involved by some lies and deceit called The Gulf of Tonkin.

Then we lost 50,000 Americans fighting a useless war based on lies and deception.

People that have been Buddhists for generations pushed to become Catholic didn't sit well with many of the Vietminh. And watching their country being controlled by the French didn't sit well with them either.

Not that anyone should want Communism...but maybe this is better than being ruled by the French?

What would we do if Iran came on our land and started telling us what to think, building schools, taking our resources, and building rail systems to get those resources out of there as fast as possible?

We would fight!
Not exactly accurate and somewhat incoherent, but basically correct.

We were well entrenched in Vietnam by the time LBJ fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin attack on an American ship. LBJ did that to get us even more involved so his wealthy industrialist buddies could make even more money selling their war wares to the government.

Since we already had advisors in Vietnam while the French still owned that war, I have to believe that we had specific reasons for wanting to be more involved. The Catholic angle from JFK is one that is kept low key, but may have played more of a role in why we escalated our being involved in Vietnam after a Catholic becomes president;




How religious pamphlets and radio broadcasts convinced one million Catholics to leave North Vietnam and live under Catholic rule in the South, overwhelming the Buddhists.

How brutal persecution of Vietnamese Buddhists led to rioting and suicides by fire in the streets.

Why the reports of what was really happening, written by American military and civil advisers, failed to reach the U.S. President.

Why the project backfired, and as U.S. soldiers continued to die, the Vatican made a secret deal with Ho Chi Minh. http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html

[Some Dude]

Funny please explain that to lucky S Vietnamese soldiers, government officials and workers who survived 10 to 15 years in a "reeducation" camps. I have talked to several of the survivors who have been welcome guests at our monthly Nam veterans meetings. It would make your heart bleed. Can't imagine what happened to them and those who did not survive. Thank you, thank you very much


Thats a fact, the direct result of socialism is death and enslavement , NO human rights, and No liberty.
Those people lived through things that would kill most soft Americans

[k-fridge]

One more reported post from this thread and we're gonna shut it down. You guys need to stop the insults and pissing contests and stick to discussing the topic.

ARPC

[Brian GC]

I wonder of the people that voted “not guilty” how many actually believe Zimmerman’s story?

[Brian GC]

One more reported post from this thread and we're gonna shut it down. You guys need to stop the insults and pissing contests and stick to discussing the topic.

ARPC

Could you please point out the post(s) that is being reported so we know what is being received as offensive? I can't find it.

Also, rather than shutting the thread down, would you consider warning the offensive ones by PM? By shutting down a thread and not singling out the trouble makers just shifts these problems to another thread IMO.

[coolwhip]

Not exactly accurate and somewhat incoherent, but basically correct.

We were well entrenched in Vietnam by the time LBJ fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin attack on an American ship. LBJ did that to get us even more involved so his wealthy industrialist buddies could make even more money selling their war wares to the government.

Since we already had advisors in Vietnam while the French still owned that war, I have to believe that we had specific reasons for wanting to be more involved. The Catholic angle from JFK is one that is kept low key, but may have played more of a role in why we escalated our being involved in Vietnam after a Catholic becomes president;
http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]
[/LIST]

I didn't want to go into a dissertation earlier and agree with what you posted here. I maintain the highest respect for those Americans that served in this war, but I would like to state that my opinions of the politics involved can be scathing if unleashed. If only our soldiers could know the real truth before going into battle....on second thought, if they did there may not be any willing to go in support of political foolishness.

[the dangling wrangler]

Could you please point out the post(s) that is being reported so we know what is being received as offensive? I can't find it.

Also, rather than shutting the thread down, would you consider warning the offensive ones by PM? By shutting down a thread and not singling out the trouble makers just shifts these problems to another thread IMO.

Sorry sport. I don't think anyone here, let alone a moderator has to, or should answer to you.

[Brian GC]

Sorry sport. I don't think anyone here, let alone a moderator has to, or should answer to you.

See, if it was up to me, this is the type of post that should be reported.

[the dangling wrangler]

See, if it was up to me, this is the type of post that should be reported.

Well, report it then. If I broke any posting rules, you can be sure I'll be notified.
By a moderator.

[cool-in-cayman]

I wonder of the people that voted “not guilty” how many actually believe Zimmerman’s story?

You don't have to believe Zimmerman to find him not guilty. Excluding most everything he has to say, the evidence shows that he called the cops, was beaten up and Martin was not.

A witness saw Martin beating him.

There is audio evidence with likely Zimmerman screaming for help.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything illegal, or that he confronted Martin. Excluding Zimmerman's account of how they came into contact only leaves speculation.

Therefore there simply is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of anything at this point.

[cool-in-cayman]

I didn't say we didn't do any good, just that it wasn't our place to be at that time. When JFK took office, we were not involved in any wars. Yet, JFK's acceptance speech took on an air of the U.S. protecting itself from it's enemies. That was a typical leftist speech designed to put the people into a state of fear. Was it to maintain political power through fear or was it to help American industrialists sell their wares for war, who knows. One thing we can be certain of is that we did not get involved in Vietnam with full intentions of helping out the Vietnamese. A lot less killing would have occured had the U.S. stayed out of that conflict.

American leftists used Vietnam from every angle they could. Vietnam was one of the most successful American liberal campaign ever designed and orchestrated by the American left. As it turned out, the Vietnamese people who stayed in Vietnam did quite well under their Communist victors. It is very similar to Cuba. We only hear from those who were discontent with the changes to these countries and not from those who stayed and adapted to the new regimes.

I know I am probably just being naive, but do you have one shred of proof that anyone in high authority conspired with defense contractors to orchestrate a war in Vietnam or anywhere else for the purpose of making greedy contractors rich? I'm sure this opinion is shared by many, but so too is the opinion shared that that WTC 7 was purposely blown up by the Jooz.

[cool-in-cayman]

Define morality in terms of Communist versus Republic government. We in the U.S. are considered immoral by Communists and Muslims worldwide. Is their definition of what moral is wrong? Why?

Show me a communist regime that allows freedom of speech, freedom of expression, the right to pursue your god given talents without being catogorized and dispatched by the government. Show me a communist regime that doesn't sensor almost all forms of human interaction in one way or another. Show me a communist regime that doesn't arrest those who are vocal against the regime. Show me a communist regime in which the officials are elected by the people and not some sort of polit bureau.

Show me that, and I'll explain the morality differences between communism and an elected republic gov.

I have no problem with others calling us immoral, I think they are wrong and we are right.

[the dangling wrangler]

You don't have to believe Zimmerman to find him not guilty. Excluding most everything he has to say, the evidence shows that he called the cops, was beaten up and Martin was not.

A witness saw Martin beating him.

There is audio evidence with likely Zimmerman screaming for help.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything illegal, or that he confronted Martin. Excluding Zimmerman's account of how they came into contact only leaves speculation.

Therefore there simply is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of anything at this point.

Some of the members here want a public lynching, not justice.
Seems like, if you don't see things their way, you're nothing but pure evil.

Zimmerman is not Richard Kuklinski.

[k-fridge]

Could you please point out the post(s) that is being reported so we know what is being received as offensive? I can't find it.

Also, rather than shutting the thread down, would you consider warning the offensive ones by PM? By shutting down a thread and not singling out the trouble makers just shifts these problems to another thread IMO.

They've been warned over and over. Next stop is locking them out of ARP.

[RoBoTeq]

I wonder of the people that voted “not guilty” how many actually believe Zimmerman’s story?
I would be interested in this as well. Since there is nothing to support Zimmerman's claims that can't be explained more rationally and there is plenty of evidence, both physical and from an earwitness that suggests Zimmerman's story is not true, along with the now documented fact that Zimmerman is prone to lie to anyone and everyone.....well, I'd just like to know too.

[RoBoTeq]

You don't have to believe Zimmerman to find him not guilty. Excluding most everything he has to say, the evidence shows that he called the cops, was beaten up and Martin was not.The same evidence shows that Zimmerman lied in court when he told Martin's family that he thought Martin was older. The same evidence shows that Zimmerman deceived the 911 operator into believing that Martin was casing houses, when in fact, Martin was not even near any of the houses. The same evidence shows that rather stop pursuing Martin as was suggested by the 911 operator, Zimmerman continued stalking Martin. The same evidence shows that Zimmerman had to actually turn the corner of the building and walk several yards toward where Martin was going in order to have murdered Martin where the murder took place. Just saying....


A witness saw Martin beating him.That witness has now declined testifying and several other claimed witnesses testify that it could have been Martin under Zimmerman. One eyewitness claims that Zimmerman was on top of Martin when he shot Martin, and then Zimmerman flipped Martin over after he shot Martin. It will be interesting to see how many of these so called witnesses show up for court, especially since a couple of purjury charges have already been handed down in this case.


There is audio evidence with likely Zimmerman screaming for help.Really? Likely Zimmerman? How do you come to that conclusion when two voice analyst experts say it could not have possibly been Zimmerman?;

""As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty



There is no evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything illegal, or that he confronted Martin. Excluding Zimmerman's account of how they came into contact only leaves speculation.
It is true that there is no evidence that either Zimmerman or Martin were doing anything illegal prior to their physical contact of one another. The earwitness who heard the reporte between Zimmerman and Martin just before a scuffling sound over the phone may well be enough to show that Zimmerman did indeed initiate contact with Martin.

Therefore there simply is not enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of anything at this point.
All of this information keeps being posted over and over and over, yet you people keep regurgitating the same misinformation as if you haven't already been shown that what you are posting is simply not accurate....why?

[RoBoTeq]

I know I am probably just being naive, but do you have one shred of proof that anyone in high authority conspired with defense contractors to orchestrate a war in Vietnam or anywhere else for the purpose of making greedy contractors rich? I'm sure this opinion is shared by many, but so too is the opinion shared that that WTC 7 was purposely blown up by the Jooz.
Of course there is nothing to show for proof of any conspiracy to initiate war in order to sell war products.....that's why these guys are so good at what they do....:grin2:

There is absolute proof that LBJ did fabricate the attack in the Gulf of Tonkin though; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l8_tv7KTJi0

[RoBoTeq]

Show me a communist regime that allows freedom of speech, freedom of expression, the right to pursue your god given talents without being catogorized and dispatched by the government. Show me a communist regime that doesn't sensor almost all forms of human interaction in one way or another. Show me a communist regime that doesn't arrest those who are vocal against the regime. Show me a communist regime in which the officials are elected by the people and not some sort of polit bureau.

Show me that, and I'll explain the morality differences between communism and an elected republic gov.

I have no problem with others calling us immoral, I think they are wrong and we are right.
Go out of the U.S. and book a trip to Havana, Cuba for your answers. While the things you state are fundamentally true, they are not a reality. The Cuban people speak quite frankly and freely about their restrictions, and how they get around them. Only when opposition to government becomes a threat to government does the Communist government act. Remember, those soldiers and police who have to monitor the people and make the arrests are themselves part of the population with family that has to work within the restrictions as well.

As far as morality, I witnessed a more overall moral population of people in Havana then I have any where else I have ever been. The Cuban people have no inclination to commit crimes that will result in their being jailed or disappearing, so the streets of Havana are a lot safer then the streets of most U.S. cities. Having to heavily rely on one another because of government restrictions, the Cuban people have simply become a very friendly and trustworthy people. I had situations with pimps selling their alleged sisters (good looking, healthy young women) who I would trust more then most American business persons. It was a bizarre atmosphere, but did not take long to understand the rationale behind it.

As for the Communist regime, it can't be any worse than what the U.S. government is as far as morality.

[RoBoTeq]

Some of the members here want a public lynching, not justice.
Seems like, if you don't see things their way, you're nothing but pure evil.

Zimmerman is not Richard Kuklinski.
What justice was being done before Zimmerman was finally charged with a crime? You accuse others of wanting a public lynching while supporting someone who performed a personal execution. Whose justice are you so concerned with?

If Zimmerman is not guilty of having caused Martin's death without having been the reason for the physical altercation that resulted in Zimmerman shooting Martin, then so be it. Why should Zimmerman not have to show responsibility for his actions, especially when his actions resulted in the death of an American teenager who prior to coming into contact with Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal?

It sounds more like those who support Zimmerman not having to show responsibility for his actions are the ones who oppose justice.....for some...

[barbar]

It's a waste because the communists were allowed to win. So to that extent I would agree.

However it seems that you believe there is no moral difference between a regime who is fighting, dying and killing in order to reign supreme authority over it's population and an army fighting, dying and killing in order to preserve basic human freedom and dignity.

If you can make no moral distinction between the two, I shrug my shoulders and shake my head like I do all the time. We have no shortage of people in this country who think exactly the way you do.

If i accept your argument, then the cause of the spread of communism should have been attacked at source, Russia or China or Visa Versa Russia or China attacking USA to rid capitalism. (Do just add refrigerant or do you repair the leak) NO did not happen, just bully boys shyting in some other playing field.
Two wrongs do not make a right


Personally I find it sickening and it sounds like Glenn has you pegged pretty good. People like you don't deserve freedom. Perhaps you would do better in Vietnam or N. korea.

You and Glenn can peg me which ever way you want. I will give you the same right I gave Glenn, you can call me what ever you want.
Because I do not prescribe to your ways, you want to remove my freedom, Sounds familiar, A bit of a contradiction! May be it is you who would best be suited to N. Korea

[cool-in-cayman]

I would be interested in this as well. Since there is nothing to support Zimmerman's claims that can't be explained more rationally and there is plenty of evidence, both physical and from an earwitness that suggests Zimmerman's story is not true, along with the now documented fact that Zimmerman is prone to lie to anyone and everyone.....well, I'd just like to know too.

I believe the ear witness you are referring to is the girlfriend..right?

After the phone went dead, did she call 911? Did she call Trayvon's parents? Did she call anyone?...hmmm

Something seems very fishy with the girlfriend. I suspect this like much of the other media hype will come unraveled.

I think we are going to learn a lot more about Trayvon, his girlfriend and his parents if this goes to trial. I'm betting it won't.

[cool-in-cayman]

You and Glenn can peg me which ever way you want. I will give you the same right I gave Glenn, you can call me what ever you want.
Because I do not prescribe to your ways, you want to remove my freedom, Sounds familiar, A bit of a contradiction! May be it is you who would best be suited to N. Korea

Oh please, you wreak of pacifist. As if a "guy" like you would have supported a war with Russia or China and the total nuclear annihilation that would certainly go with it.

I don't need you to give me anything. Are you saying you don't like communism? It sounds like you do. What I am suggesting is that you fill your boots with it if you love it so much.

[barbar]

Zim just being an observer and doing the right thing calling the Police, he had done is social duty, but as soon as he left the car (when it was not required), he became the aggressor. Without this aggression, the incident would not of happened.
Therefore some level of responsibility has to be placed on Zim.

[cool-in-cayman]

What justice was being done before Zimmerman was finally charged with a crime? You accuse others of wanting a public lynching while supporting someone who performed a personal execution. Whose justice are you so concerned with?

If Zimmerman is not guilty of having caused Martin's death without having been the reason for the physical altercation that resulted in Zimmerman shooting Martin, then so be it. Why should Zimmerman not have to show responsibility for his actions, especially when his actions resulted in the death of an American teenager who prior to coming into contact with Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal?

It sounds more like those who support Zimmerman not having to show responsibility for his actions are the ones who oppose justice.....for some...

From the evidence or lack there of, Martin is responsible for his own death. He gave Zimmerman a beating. There is no evidence that shows Zimmerman confronted or assaulted Martin only speculation which in my view is pretty weak.

Short of any further evidence I don't see him being convicted of anything.

[RoBoTeq]

I believe the ear witness you are referring to is the girlfriend..right?

After the phone went dead, did she call 911? Did she call Trayvon's parents? Did she call anyone?...hmmm

Something seems very fishy with the girlfriend. I suspect this like much of the other media hype will come unraveled.

I think we are going to learn a lot more about Trayvon, his girlfriend and his parents if this goes to trial. I'm betting it won't.
All good points. It will be interesting to see just what "evidence" does show up and which of it is deemed relevant or accurate.


Just a point though, most youth, especially minority youth, are not real inclined to ever call the police for any reason. In fact, I instructed my boys to never involve the police with anything before contacting me first.

[cool-in-cayman]

[QUOTE=.....for some...[/QUOTE]

What is it with you? You're sounding more and more like Al Sharpton. Just because many of us just don't see compelling evidence to convict Zimmerman does not make us racists.

I would say the same thing if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white. All other details being equal, wannabe thug meets wannabe cop.

[RoBoTeq]

From the evidence or lack there of, Martin is responsible for his own death. He gave Zimmerman a beating. There is no evidence that shows Zimmerman confronted or assaulted Martin only speculation which in my view is pretty weak.

Short of any further evidence I don't see him being convicted of anything.
How do you know that Martin gave Zimmerman a beating? Because a known liar says that is what happened? Because that known liar had injuries that could have been done in ways other then by getting a beating from Martin? By Martin having scraped knuckles that could have been scraped on the ground after Zimmerman pushed him to the ground?

This is why a trial is needed. There are ways to weed some of this stuff out if they are at least questioned and studied by those who can better put the pieces together.

It may turn out that Zimmerman is telling it exactly as it is and the evidence will indicate that and Zimmerman will go free.

So why are some so afraid of this trial?

[barbar]

Oh please, you wreak of pacifist.I am not , but what wrong would it be If I were. Does the New Testament not promote pasifism As if a "guy" like you would have supported a war with Russia or China and the total nuclear annihilation that would certainly go with it.
How would you know what a guy like me would support.

I don't need you to give me anything. Are you saying you don't like communism? It sounds like you do. What I am suggesting is that you fill your boots with it if you love it so much.
Do I like communism????, the idea has merits, practically can not work, so yes and no to your answer.
My Boots are full of my arse kicking feet, so no room for anything else.
Pity you do not want me to give anything, I was going to give you a big hug, as it seems you missed out on a bit of loving.

[RoBoTeq]

What is it with you? You're sounding more and more like Al Sharpton. Just because many of us just don't see compelling evidence to convict Zimmerman does not make us racists.

I would say the same thing if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white. All other details being equal, wannabe thug meets wannabe cop.
I'm sorry, I don't see where I stated anything whatsoever about race. I was actually thinking more along the lines of class when I typed that. It just seems that there is a class distinction attitude with those who feel that Zimmerman is so above the law that he does not even have to account for murdering someone after he hunted them down for not passing Zimmerman's idea of what someone should act or look like.

We have a person with a history of violence and lying who is on medications that promotes violence, carrying a gun, who stalks an unarmed kid (Zimmerman's words) for looking suspicious, even after he is told by police authorities that they do not need him to continue following the kid who was at that time out of sight....killing that kid. Is there nothing in this scenario that makes those of you saying that Zimmerman should not have to go on trial that raises concerns for you?

[coolwhip]

Do I like communism????, the idea has merits, practically can not work, so yes and no to your answer.
My Boots are full of my arse kicking feet, so no room for anything else.
Pity you do not want me to give anything, I was going to give you a big hug, as it seems you missed out on a bit of loving.

Im sure Cayman prefers indoor plumbing and wants no hugs from you!:whistle:

[the dangling wrangler]

I'm sorry, I don't see where I stated anything whatsoever about race. I was actually thinking more along the lines of class when I typed that. It just seems that there is a class distinction attitude with those who feel that Zimmerman is so above the law that he does not even have to account for murdering someone after he hunted them down for not passing Zimmerman's idea of what someone should act or look like.

We have a person with a history of violence and lying who is on medications that promotes violence, carrying a gun, who stalks an unarmed kid (Zimmerman's words) for looking suspicious, even after he is told by police authorities that they do not need him to continue following the kid who was at that time out of sight....killing that kid. Is there nothing in this scenario that makes those of you saying that Zimmerman should not have to go on trial that raises concerns for you?


Wrap your head around this novel idea. Not everyone thinks like you.
Like it or not. It's true.

[Some Dude]

Wrap your head around this novel idea. Not everyone thinks like you.
Like it or not. It's true.

Spinning your wheels with this one bro, robo just wants the posts.

[barbar]

Im sure Cayman prefers indoor plumbing and wants no hugs from you!:whistle:
He does not not like indoor plumbing, he made it clear he prefers shyting in others back yards.
I will send him some super soft 3 ply bog paper, for his sore kicked bottom.
See what a caring commie I am.:bump:

[the dangling wrangler]

Spinning your wheels with this one bro, robo just wants the posts.

Good luck on the trip this week. Hope things go well for ya.

[glennac]

[QUOTE=barbar;13497701.....See what a caring commie I am.:bump:[/QUOTE]

Hey barbar, you don't have to remind us as we know that quite well.:bump::whistle: If you visit the US you should swing down to the South. We'll show you a good time and give you a souvenir to take back with you. The Stars and Bars flag after you salute it that is :grin2:. nothing to be concerned about down here. Thank you, thank you very much

[Some Dude]

Good luck on the trip this week. Hope things go well for ya.

One more day of this packing crap and im on a plane thursday morning, man i wish i could drink

[the dangling wrangler]

One more day of this packing crap and im on a plane thursday morning, man i wish i could drink

Sounds like this is a done deal already.
I don't have that much adventure left in me anymore.
What about your guns? I don't think it's as easy to carry there, as it is where you're at now. But, it can be done.

[Some Dude]

Sounds like this is a done deal already.
I don't have that much adventure left in me anymore.
What about your guns? I don't think it's as easy to carry there, as it is where you're at now. But, it can be done.

What guns?

[the dangling wrangler]

What guns?

Sorry. I had you confused with with somebody else.

[RoBoTeq]

Wrap your head around this novel idea. Not everyone thinks like you.
Like it or not. It's true.If I thought that everyone thought like me, I wouldn't have to post on the internet to straighten all of you guys out so much.

Now, since you just avoided the accusation that you started, would you care to expand on why you keep screwing up what I post and even that which I don't post....I know, I know... you don't drink, smoke or like salt, still, you must be doing something that keeps you misconstruing the conversation and going off on tangents the way you do.

What made you start up on racism again?

[glennac]

Hey I have a novel idea. Why don't we declare Zimmerman innocent of all charges since the majority here feel that way. We can then send the naysayers to a reeducation camp where they will be fed with groug and reeducated and released after say 10 to 15 years like they do in a commie country to those who don't go along with the majority here.:cheers::bump: Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Hey I have a novel idea. Why don't we declare Zimmerman innocent of all charges since the majority here feel that way. We can then send the naysayers to a reeducation camp where they will be well cared for and reeducated and released after say 10 to 15 years like they do in a commie country to those who don't go along with the majority here.:cheers::bump: Thank you, thank you very much
Speaking of which, why can't we see who voted for what? You hiding something?

[glennac]

Speaking of which, why can't we see who voted for what? You hiding something?

Well I know everyone is guessing how I voted so to end the suspension I voted not guilty.:bump: I would love to know who in the heck voted murder 2 "Beyond a reasonable doubt" with no evidence to even suggest that other than a theroy based on nothing. Gees. Please have the guts to come forward so we can put you up "against the wall":bump::whistle: Borrowing from our leftest friend barbar here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_leY_LgOuQ

Just kidding now:grin2:. Thank you, thank you very much

[glennac]

After all the debate on this and other Zimmerman/Martin threads I think it is time we declared Zimmerman innocent of all charges from lack of evidence and set him free. Funny there is no evidence at all on murder 2 and the manslaughter charges have no real evidence either IMO much less "beyond a reasonably doubt".

Going back in history a little bit OJ was proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt but he was set free by a jury who could care less guilty or innocent other than the fact that he was a Black super hero whom they couldn't find guilty of anything much less a double murder of an innocent couple. Now we are being pressured by the same folks who cheered and celebrated when the murderer OJ was freed to prosecute Zimmerman who dared question a Black thug in the middle of the night as to what he was up to and then was attacked and he defended himself from being killed.

We have already freed a murderer to satisfy their demands and now we are supposed to give up Zimmerman to pacify the mob. I said to heck with them and they can just shove it. We let OJ go and now you all want to hang an innocent man Zimmerman to make them happy. I say no, no, no. Thank you, thank you very much

[cool-in-cayman]

Go out of the U.S. and book a trip to Havana, Cuba for your answers. While the things you state are fundamentally true, they are not a reality. The Cuban people speak quite frankly and freely about their restrictions, and how they get around them. Only when opposition to government becomes a threat to government does the Communist government act. Remember, those soldiers and police who have to monitor the people and make the arrests are themselves part of the population with family that has to work within the restrictions as well.

As far as morality, I witnessed a more overall moral population of people in Havana then I have any where else I have ever been. The Cuban people have no inclination to commit crimes that will result in their being jailed or disappearing, so the streets of Havana are a lot safer then the streets of most U.S. cities. Having to heavily rely on one another because of government restrictions, the Cuban people have simply become a very friendly and trustworthy people. I had situations with pimps selling their alleged sisters (good looking, healthy young women) who I would trust more then most American business persons. It was a bizarre atmosphere, but did not take long to understand the rationale behind it.

As for the Communist regime, it can't be any worse than what the U.S. government is as far as morality.

Well i can hardly disagree with you more on most of your opinions here. I've actually been to Cuba...many times. I never stayed in any hotels or fancy resorts while I was there, I stayed in the homes of ordinary Cubans. What I saw and experienced was obviously much different than what you experienced. There is a hopelessness in many of the people I met that is very foreign to what I am used to in the U.S. Not all of them of them of course.
There is a reason why many Cubans risk their lives daily to leave Cuba for the U.S.
I have personally met and made friends with people who actually escaped from Cuba. To suggest that morally we are no better in politically ideology and policy is pretty strange in my view.
Brothers pimping their sisters should be a pretty clear indication as to the conditions that cause such behavior. Maybe that's fine and dandy to some, but I find it pretty disturbing.

[cool-in-cayman]

I'm sorry, I don't see where I stated anything whatsoever about race. I was actually thinking more along the lines of class when I typed that. It just seems that there is a class distinction attitude with those who feel that Zimmerman is so above the law that he does not even have to account for murdering someone after he hunted them down for not passing Zimmerman's idea of what someone should act or look like.

Your posts in the past have indicated that not presuming Zimmerman is guilty is tantamount to being a racist, so I figured you were still at it. My bad.

[glennac]

Your posts in the past have indicated that not presuming Zimmerman is guilty is tantamount to being a racist, so I figured you were still at it. My bad.

Well that implication against Zimmerman has also being made against all of us who feel there is no justifiable evidence to charge Zimmerman at this point. The defenders of Zimmerman's rights here have all been smeared with the racist charge by almost everyone who defends Martin.

I am now saying that a lot of them are defending Martin out of PC, wanting to appease the mob, afraid of what they would do so give them Zimmerman just like free OJ, not wanting to be considered "racist" by the pro Martin backers, etc.

If they truly feel that Martin was justified to attack Zimmerman because he asked what was going on then they are not civilized in my opinion and don't respect law in order. Just attack anyone who pisses you off and you are justified. Thank you, thank you very much

[cool-in-cayman]

How do you know that Martin gave Zimmerman a beating? Because a known liar says that is what happened? Because that known liar had injuries that could have been done in ways other then by getting a beating from Martin? By Martin having scraped knuckles that could have been scraped on the ground after Zimmerman pushed him to the ground?

This is why a trial is needed. There are ways to weed some of this stuff out if they are at least questioned and studied by those who can better put the pieces together.

It may turn out that Zimmerman is telling it exactly as it is and the evidence will indicate that and Zimmerman will go free.

So why are some so afraid of this trial?

You mean other than the eye witness who saw Martin pounding on Zimmerman? You mean other than the injuries that Zimmerman received that are consistent with a beating? You mean other than his back was wet and grass stained.? Other than that there is no evidence that Martin beat Zimmerman..

[cool-in-cayman]

He does not not like indoor plumbing, he made it clear he prefers shyting in others back yards.
I will send him some super soft 3 ply bog paper, for his sore kicked bottom.
See what a caring commie I am.:bump:

Dude, your jokes are lame, your arguments are childish and thinking you somehow kicked my butt in any way, shape, fashion or form is weak to say the least....

Why don't you do yourself a favor, stay down and let the ref count to 10.

[cool-in-cayman]

Well that implication against Zimmerman has also being made against all of us who feel there is no justifiable evidence to charge Zimmerman at this point. The defenders of Zimmerman's rights here have all been smeared with the racist charge by almost everyone who defends Martin.

I am now saying that a lot of them are defending Martin out of PC, wanting to appease the mob, afraid of what they would do so give them Zimmerman just like free OJ, not wanting to be considered "racist" by the pro Martin backers, etc.

If they truly feel that Martin was justified to attack Zimmerman because he asked what was going on then they are not civilized in my opinion and don't respect law in order. Just attack anyone who pisses you off and you are justified. Thank you, thank you very much

The thing is, Martin has a past same as zimmerman does. He's been in trouble before. He allegedly assaulted a bus driver, been kicked out of school several times has all kinds of twitter feeds with his thug life rantings. So as I've said before wannabe thug collides with wannabe cop. Both are a couple of knuckleheads in my view. I would have to ignore all of the hard evidence and rely soley on speculation if I were to believe that Zimmerman attacked Martin while at the same time ignoring Martin's past.

That's pretty stupid in my view.

The only racism I see going on in this case is giving Martin some sort of special protected class status. If Martin was a little white wannabe thug we wouldn't be talking about this right now. He'd be just another dead white troubled teen who got himself in over his head.

[barbar]

Dude, your jokes are lame, your arguments are childish and thinking you somehow kicked my butt in any way, shape, fashion or form is weak to say the least....

Why don't you do yourself a favor, stay down and let the ref count to 10.

Do not get paid for jokes, so lame they might be.

Childish, do mean honest like a child? Thanks for the compliment

Where did i say I kicked your butt, with an attitude like yours someone must have kicked it.

Do mean; would i do you a favour. I would but you distinctly said you want nothing from me.

Before the ref can count to 10, I have to be but down, Do I seem down to you.

[RoBoTeq]

Well i can hardly disagree with you more on most of your opinions here. I've actually been to Cuba...many times. I never stayed in any hotels or fancy resorts while I was there, I stayed in the homes of ordinary Cubans. What I saw and experienced was obviously much different than what you experienced. There is a hopelessness in many of the people I met that is very foreign to what I am used to in the U.S. Not all of them of them of course.
There is a reason why many Cubans risk their lives daily to leave Cuba for the U.S.
I have personally met and made friends with people who actually escaped from Cuba. To suggest that morally we are no better in politically ideology and policy is pretty strange in my view.
Brothers pimping their sisters should be a pretty clear indication as to the conditions that cause such behavior. Maybe that's fine and dandy to some, but I find it pretty disturbing.Maybe you should try going to Cuba sometime when you are not staying in the home of Cuban dissidents who do not accept the way of life in Cuba.

While the buildings are all showing 50 years of neglect and most commerce has to be done out of doors because of the poor quality of the structures, the Cuban people who still love Cuba and make the best of things are quite the likeable and friendly sort of people. Not at all like the Cuban's who flee Cuba and wind up in Florida.

These are some very typical scenes from Cuba;
.
.
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=5035733787410466&id=5e1f7dd918a0678d560fc4da1b181a13
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4708259719153121&id=0dcfd9b412450cacff39327892625e32
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4981063147652890&id=e9589deb909b252d3c31a5efa0b2a0fc

[RoBoTeq]

Your posts in the past have indicated that not presuming Zimmerman is guilty is tantamount to being a racist, so I figured you were still at it. My bad.
I have never indicated that Zimmerman should be presumed guilty whatsoever. All I have ever wanted was for there to be a trial to determine whether or not Zimmerman had the right to murder some kid walking home from the store.

[RoBoTeq]

Well that implication against Zimmerman has also being made against all of us who feel there is no justifiable evidence to charge Zimmerman at this point. The defenders of Zimmerman's rights here have all been smeared with the racist charge by almost everyone who defends Martin.

I am now saying that a lot of them are defending Martin out of PC, wanting to appease the mob, afraid of what they would do so give them Zimmerman just like free OJ, not wanting to be considered "racist" by the pro Martin backers, etc.

If they truly feel that Martin was justified to attack Zimmerman because he asked what was going on then they are not civilized in my opinion and don't respect law in order. Just attack anyone who pisses you off and you are justified. Thank you, thank you very much
Do you just don't know how to read, or are you incapable of understanding what others post? I have consistantly stated that I do not believe that Zimmerman's killing Martin had anything to do with Zimmerman being a racist...EVER!

I have posted that in my opinion some of you who made comments about your opinions that Martin was just going to be a criminal and so deserved to die might have some issues about those of certain ethnic origins. It would be interesting to see how some of you would react if some Anglo looking White guy had killed Zimmerman or if Zimmerman had killed some Anglo looking White guy. My guess is that Zimmerman would suddenly be the one who would be called the criminal.

[RoBoTeq]

You mean other than the eye witness who saw Martin pounding on Zimmerman? You mean other than the injuries that Zimmerman received that are consistent with a beating? You mean other than his back was wet and grass stained.? Other than that there is no evidence that Martin beat Zimmerman..
Oh, for crying out loud; don't you people read the posts, or are you just not capable of understanding what you read?

The so called eyewitness who allegedly saw Martin pounding on Zimmerman has changed his story and now says that he really could not tell who was screaming for help or even if anyone was actually swinging on the other.

ORLANDO — Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin (http://jacksonville.com/trayvonmartin) in Sanford.
Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-05-23/story/4-witnesses-change-stories-according-evidence-released-george-zimmerman?amp&amp#ixzz1yIyDGbqw

How many more times are you people going to keep regurgitating the same misinformation? It's like you really have no desire to know what is true or not, just that for what ever perverse reason you have stuck in your crawl, you want this Zimmerman guy to not have to be held responsible for taking the life of a kid who was doing absolutely nothing wrong when Zimmerman decided to focus in on him.

[RoBoTeq]

The thing is, Martin has a past same as zimmerman does. He's been in trouble before. He allegedly assaulted a bus driver, been kicked out of school several times has all kinds of twitter feeds with his thug life rantings. So as I've said before wannabe thug collides with wannabe cop. Both are a couple of knuckleheads in my view. I would have to ignore all of the hard evidence and rely soley on speculation if I were to believe that Zimmerman attacked Martin while at the same time ignoring Martin's past.

That's pretty stupid in my view.

The only racism I see going on in this case is giving Martin some sort of special protected class status. If Martin was a little white wannabe thug we wouldn't be talking about this right now. He'd be just another dead white troubled teen who got himself in over his head.
Unbelievable! You are actually going to say that Martin's being caught with a baggy that had a trace amount of marijuana in it and some jewelry that was never reported as being stolen in the same league as Zimmerman, who was arrested and charged with being violent with a police officer, had a restraining order for violence against him and had been fired from one job for violence with coworkers from another job saying he was a whack job who could be calm one moment and a complete psycho the next?

You are grasping at straws with your insistance that Martin assaulted a bus driver because there is absolutely nothing to support your claim of that. What bus driver? When did it happen? What did the bus driver do about it? What is the bus driver's name? What bus line?

And then....you go right into racist commentary.....nice....

[glennac]

Do you just don't know how to read, or are you incapable of understanding what others post? I have consistantly stated that I do not believe that Zimmerman's killing Martin had anything to do with Zimmerman being a racist...EVER!

I have posted that in my opinion some of you who made comments about your opinions that Martin was just going to be a criminal and so deserved to die might have some issues about those of certain ethnic origins. It would be interesting to see how some of you would react if some Anglo looking White guy had killed Zimmerman or if Zimmerman had killed some Anglo looking White guy. My guess is that Zimmerman would suddenly be the one who would be called the criminal.

There you go again robo attacking me by putting words in my mouth. I never said "you" said Zimmerman was a racist. You are the one who cannot read or understand. Please reread what I posted several times. My comment was on cayman's post where he said "not presuming Zimmerman is guilty is tantamount to being a racist"

Then I didn't refer directly to you when I said that this charge has been leveled at those of us who defend Zimmerman by most of the Martin supporters. No where did I refer to you in person. I mean there is, Brian, barbar, corny, etc. etc. who are defenders of Martin and who blame Zimmerman.

Maybe someone might have said Martin deserved to die but I didn't and the rest of us didn't. So cut me a little slack there. IMO the kid was a thug with attitude which has already been shown. I never would have done what he did. If the kid was White who got killed Zimmerman would be free with no evidence that a murder had taken place.`You are to thin skinned here robo. Thank you, thank you very much

[barbar]

A legal question,

Does a jury have to find defendant guilty or not guilty of the charged crime or are they able to find them guilty of a crime different to what they are charged with.

For example

Zim has been charged with second degree, can the jury find him guilty of manslaughter?

[newoldtech]

A legal question,

Does a jury have to find defendant guilty or not guilty of the charged crime or are they able to find them guilty of a crime different to what they are charged with.

For example

Zim has been charged with second degree, can the jury find him guilty of manslaughter?

I dont think so. And that was part of the problem with the Casey Anthony trial. He might be able to cop a plea for a lesser charge but if it goes to trial its murder2 or bust to my knowledge.

[barbar]

I dont think so. And that was part of the problem with the Casey Anthony trial. He might be able to cop a plea for a lesser charge but if it goes to trial its murder2 or bust to my knowledge.
Thanks:cheers:

[cool-in-cayman]

Unbelievable! You are actually going to say that Martin's being caught with a baggy that had a trace amount of marijuana in it and some jewelry that was never reported as being stolen in the same league as Zimmerman, who was arrested and charged with being violent with a police officer, had a restraining order for violence against him and had been fired from one job for violence with coworkers from another job saying he was a whack job who could be calm one moment and a complete psycho the next?

You are grasping at straws with your insistance that Martin assaulted a bus driver because there is absolutely nothing to support your claim of that. What bus driver? When did it happen? What did the bus driver do about it? What is the bus driver's name? What bus line?

And then....you go right into racist commentary.....nice....

Well to be sure the information is sketchy about Martin, but if this goes to trial I'm sure we will have the real dealio on Martin. You've put yourself way out on a limb here with this kid who: assualted a bus driver, was kicked out of school multiple times, uses drugs frequently, had a screw driver and womens jewelry in his school bag. The kid claims the jewelry didn't belong to him. Ok then, who's was it? The jewelry fairy didn't put it there.

On the kids twitter feed his friend says "I didn't know you swung on a bus driver" I guess that means he set up a swing set on the bus driver and was swinging?

You can read this fine upstanding butterflies twitter feed here:http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

I have never indicated being a fan of GZ, all I am saying is Martin appears to be no angel himself and lacking any third party accounts of what happened at the moment of contact, I am not convinced that GZ attacked Martin. Therefore there simply is not enough evidence to even try him let alone convict him. Unless something comes up that none of us have heard, I would not be surprised if the judge throws the whole case out. Many smarter people than I agree including many accomplished lawyers.

And why do you suppose the critical witness that you are talking about changed his story? Could it be that he is afraid for his life as Martin supporters are calling in death threats to pretty much anyone associated with Zimmerman? Besides, he has not changed the portiion of his statement which says one guy was on top of the other beating him. All evidence points to Zimmerman being on the bottom and being beat up. Not true with Martin. To my knowledge the only change is that he was not sure who was calling for help. Don't you think it would be strange to call for help while you are pummeling someone? I feel like I am explaining the obvious here.

I guess you are calling me a racist in that final line. No biggie, the term racist is so cheap these days it's laughable.

[cool-in-cayman]

Maybe you should try going to Cuba sometime when you are not staying in the home of Cuban dissidents who do not accept the way of life in Cuba.

While the buildings are all showing 50 years of neglect and most commerce has to be done out of doors because of the poor quality of the structures, the Cuban people who still love Cuba and make the best of things are quite the likeable and friendly sort of people. Not at all like the Cuban's who flee Cuba and wind up in Florida.

These are some very typical scenes from Cuba;
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http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=5035733787410466&id=5e1f7dd918a0678d560fc4da1b181a13
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4708259719153121&id=0dcfd9b412450cacff39327892625e32
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4981063147652890&id=e9589deb909b252d3c31a5efa0b2a0fc

Why do you think the people I stayed with were dissidents? They weren't. They also were not trying to escape. They were just ordinary people. On every occassion I went there I stayed somewhere different. I met a variety of people in Cuba. Very little of the conversation was centered around anything political.


I know what the buildings in Cuba look like, I've been up and down the country and all around Havana.

Perhaps you should go back, break away from the golden gringo tour for a day and mingle with ordinary folks.

What is up with you anyway? Are you feeling ok? You've been writing some wierd stuff. I'm beginning to wonder if you really believe half of what you are writing and more just trying to get a kick out of pushing peoples buttons.

[RoBoTeq]

Well to be sure the information is sketchy about Martin, but if this goes to trial I'm sure we will have the real dealio on Martin. You've put yourself way out on a limb here with this kid who: assualted a bus driver, was kicked out of school multiple times, uses drugs frequently, had a screw driver and womens jewelry in his school bag. The kid claims the jewelry didn't belong to him. Ok then, who's was it? The jewelry fairy didn't put it there.

On the kids twitter feed his friend says "I didn't know you swung on a bus driver" I guess that means he set up a swing set on the bus driver and was swinging?

You can read this fine upstanding butterflies twitter feed here:http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

I have never indicated being a fan of GZ, all I am saying is Martin appears to be no angel himself and lacking any third party accounts of what happened at the moment of contact, I am not convinced that GZ attacked Martin. Therefore there simply is not enough evidence to even try him let alone convict him. Unless something comes up that none of us have heard, I would not be surprised if the judge throws the whole case out. Many smarter people than I agree including many accomplished lawyers.

And why do you suppose the critical witness that you are talking about changed his story? Could it be that he is afraid for his life as Martin supporters are calling in death threats to pretty much anyone associated with Zimmerman? Besides, he has not changed the portiion of his statement which says one guy was on top of the other beating him. All evidence points to Zimmerman being on the bottom and being beat up. Not true with Martin. To my knowledge the only change is that he was not sure who was calling for help. Don't you think it would be strange to call for help while you are pummeling someone? I feel like I am explaining the obvious here.

I guess you are calling me a racist in that final line. No biggie, the term racist is so cheap these days it's laughable.
I am not calling you anything. It's just that you are the one who keeps bringing up racism while claiming it is me doing it.

To me, Martin sounds like a fairly typical kid testing out waters he should not be getting into. You are ridiculous in even bringing up that accusation that Martin ever had a physical altercation with any bus driver since it is all based on some obscure tweet put out by someone completely unknown. What if you were judged by others by some of the things that you have been accused of on this site? Would it be fair for someone to claim you are all of the things that others on this site may have stated about you? If that is the case, I am an HVAC god homosexual criminal bad arse liberal conservative....:angel:

Making excuses for everyone involved in this case to bolster your not thinking that Martin or his family are deserving of finding out what may have really happened and if Martin died because he commited a crime by attacking Zimmerman without cause or provocation is something I just don't understand. Why would you not want questions to be answered in a situation where someone who has been murdered cannot speak for himself?

[RoBoTeq]

Why do you think the people I stayed with were dissidents? They weren't. They also were not trying to escape. They were just ordinary people. On every occassion I went there I stayed somewhere different. I met a variety of people in Cuba. Very little of the conversation was centered around anything political.


I know what the buildings in Cuba look like, I've been up and down the country and all around Havana.

Perhaps you should go back, break away from the golden gringo tour for a day and mingle with ordinary folks.

What is up with you anyway? Are you feeling ok? You've been writing some wierd stuff. I'm beginning to wonder if you really believe half of what you are writing and more just trying to get a kick out of pushing peoples buttons.
I'm feeling fine. Better then ever, in fact. I am veggie/fruit juicing every day and have eliminated most of the drugs that were causing me problems due to side affects. But thanks for asking...:cheers:

OH! I absolutely do enjoy pushing people's buttons, but really, only for fun.

I never took the gringo tour of Cuba. I walked into areas that are definitely not on the gringo tour. I don't think the gringo tour guides want Americans to see these billboards from Abu Graib;
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http://www.roboteq.info/fascista.jpg

[Brian GC]

In the OJ trial the black community was not retaliating against the white community when they wanted OJ acquitted, they were rebelling against the justice system that is harder on them than any other race (be it justified or not). They see themselves at war with the police, the courts and prisons and did not want to hand over one more prisoner regardless of guilt. If OJ had killed two black people, they would have protected him the same.

I believe race plays a big part in this trial too. Some of those “not guilty” voters probably think the heck with a black thug who would punch a guy for asking him a simple question. Some are very aware of the high black crime rate and feel its payback time. Some want to believe Zimmerman’s account of how it went down even though he is probably lying but there is no proof he is lying. Some think Zimmerman should be able to approach anyone, anywhere and not be physically threatened.

I grew up around blacks and I will say they are the most physically aggressive race I’ve ever encountered. Call that statement racist, I call it fact. If Zimmerman does not know that also and thinks he can approach anyone, regardless of color and not be threatened, he’s living in dreamland. He should have weighed the risks, not relied on using deadly force, and stood down until the police came. There was no urgency because no crime was being committed.

To those who think I’m off base with my overgeneralization of blacks let me remind you of what Jesse Jackson once said publicly. “I’m not proud of the fact that I am more afraid of being followed by a group of black than a group of whites”.

[glennac]

In the OJ trial the black community was not retaliating against the white community when they wanted OJ acquitted, they were rebelling against the justice system that is harder on them than any other race (be it justified or not). They see themselves at war with the police, the courts and prisons and did not want to hand over one more prisoner regardless of guilt. If OJ had killed two black people, they would have protected him the same.

I believe race plays a big part in this trial too. Some of those “not guilty” voters probably think the heck with a black thug who would punch a guy for asking him a simple question. Some are very aware of the high black crime rate and feel its payback time. Some want to believe Zimmerman’s account of how it went down even though he is probably lying but there is no proof he is lying. Some think Zimmerman should be able to approach anyone, anywhere and not be physically threatened.

I grew up around blacks and I will say they are the most physically aggressive race I’ve ever encountered. Call that statement racist, I call it fact. If Zimmerman does not know that also and thinks he can approach anyone, regardless of color and not be threatened, he’s living in dreamland. He should have weighed the risks, not relied on using deadly force, and stood down until the police came. There was no urgency because no crime was being committed.

To those who think I’m off base with my overgeneralization of blacks let me remind you of what Jesse Jackson once said publicly. “I’m not proud of the fact that I am more afraid of being followed by a group of black than a group of whites”.

Well Brian I see you do see some things clearly. I agree with you on OJ and the general behavior of young Blacks. However they are living in our world and need to know you just can't go off on everyone who you get pissed with for what ever reason. Zimmerman doesn't have a master's degree in physcology and shouldn't have to fight for his life in order to ask a stranger with a hoodie on what he is up to. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Well Brian I see you do see some things clearly. I agree with you on OJ and the general behavior of young Blacks. However they are living in our world and need to know you just can't go off on everyone who you get pissed with for what ever reason. Zimmerman doesn't have a master's degree in physcology and shouldn't have to fight for his life in order to ask a stranger with a hoodie on what he is up to. Thank you, thank you very much
Judging by his documented history of violence with others, Zimmerman should not have ever been allowed to be a neighborhood watch person. I'd like to see Zimmerman go into a real hood and mouth demand hooded strangers there to identify themselves.....Zimmerman's puss who has to initiate violent outbursts to keep him from wetting himself. Hmmm, I guess the police didn't check to see if Zimmerman did wet himself the night he murdered Martin.

What ever happened to the claims that Zimmerman was so fraught with grief and dispair over killing someone? Zimmerman's family and legal begals all claimed that Zimmerman was crying himself to sleep over having killed Martin. Has anyone seen even a hint of remorse from Zimmerman? Even his so called apology to the Zimmerman family, who he was not even addressing during his lame excuse for why he killed Martin or his blatant lie that he thought that Martin was much older, had any emotion to it whatsoever.

Zimmerman very well could be someone who is devoid of emotion other then that which benefits him directly.

[the dangling wrangler]

Judging by his documented history of violence with others, Zimmerman should not have ever been allowed to be a neighborhood watch person. I'd like to see Zimmerman go into a real hood and mouth demand hooded strangers there to identify themselves.....Zimmerman's puss who has to initiate violent outbursts to keep him from wetting himself. Hmmm, I guess the police didn't check to see if Zimmerman did wet himself the night he murdered Martin.

What ever happened to the claims that Zimmerman was so fraught with grief and dispair over killing someone? Zimmerman's family and legal begals all claimed that Zimmerman was crying himself to sleep over having killed Martin. Has anyone seen even a hint of remorse from Zimmerman? Even his so called apology to the Zimmerman family, who he was not even addressing during his lame excuse for why he killed Martin or his blatant lie that he thought that Martin was much older, had any emotion to it whatsoever.




Zimmerman very well could be someone who is devoid of emotion other then that which benefits him directly.




You're a thick headed sot, aren't you? (correct spelling look it up) Again,
not everyone thinks like you.

[glennac]

Judging by his documented history of violence with others, Zimmerman should not have ever been allowed to be a neighborhood watch person. I'd like to see Zimmerman go into a real hood and mouth demand hooded strangers there to identify themselves.....Zimmerman's puss who has to initiate violent outbursts to keep him from wetting himself. Hmmm, I guess the police didn't check to see if Zimmerman did wet himself the night he murdered Martin.

What ever happened to the claims that Zimmerman was so fraught with grief and dispair over killing someone? Zimmerman's family and legal begals all claimed that Zimmerman was crying himself to sleep over having killed Martin. Has anyone seen even a hint of remorse from Zimmerman? Even his so called apology to the Zimmerman family, who he was not even addressing during his lame excuse for why he killed Martin or his blatant lie that he thought that Martin was much older, had any emotion to it whatsoever.

Zimmerman very well could be someone who is devoid of emotion other then that which benefits him directly.

I suspect that Zimmerman's morning for Martin being killed has been ended by the concern for his on life with the PC justice system going after him and the mob shouting for his head.

Perhaps some good may come out of this after all. Maybe thugs might understand they just can't attack some one trying to beat them senseless for asking them what they are up to. Seems pretty basic to me but Martin never figured that out I guess. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

You're a thick headed sot, aren't you? (correct spelling look it up) Again,
not everyone thinks like you.
So, you don't have any answers or did you not comprehend the question?

[the dangling wrangler]

So, you don't have any answers or did you not comprehend the question?

Honestly, I don't comprehend much of what you've been posting in these Zimmerman threads. And I assure you, I'm not alone.

[RoBoTeq]

Honestly, I don't comprehend much of what you've been posting in these Zimmerman threads. And I assure you, I'm not alone.
I'm sure all of you stuffed Muppet Babies agree with you all the time.

[the dangling wrangler]

I'm sure all of you stuffed Muppet Babies agree with you all the time.

That's all you got? I expected more out of your pompous/bombastic self for some reason.

[RoBoTeq]

That's all you got? I expected more out of your pompous/bombastic self for some reason.
The new, kinder and gentler RoBo.....remember?

[the dangling wrangler]

The new, kinder and gentler RoBo.....remember?

Sounds like a good note to end this purse fight on.

[RoBoTeq]

Sounds like a good note to end this purse fight on.
Good by me. My arms getting a bit tired with the weight of this silly thing;
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http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/catalog/img_5999_1528_detail.jpg