View Full Version : Multiple choices - but can't seem to find them listed on company websites?
07-17-2006, 05:30 PM
What would be the seer of the following (existing central A/C heating unit)
HS14-511U-6P / C819-51-1P (TRANE)
My goal is to get a unit set that cools as well as the current unit - but with more energy efficiency and possibly better humidity control. Also - the current unit is older (I believe). I think it might be from 07/89 - at least that is what a sticker on the side says... so I'm thinking that means July 1989. It still works but has twice frozen up on us in the last month and seems to function erratically.
I am being offerred numerous options from a local vendor. Price is less relevant to me as they all fall within 1.5 k of each other (i.e. not discussing price).
If I drop the lowest two price points (and lowest SEER Ratings) then I'm left with:
Rheem RANL0601AZ/RHLLHM6024 - 15.8 SEER Puron
Trane 4ttx6060B1000A/4tEE3f651000A - - 15.1 SEER - Puron
Trane 2ttR4060A1000A/TWE065E12FB - 14.8 SEER - Freon
(I believe the 4ttx6060 should read 4ttx4060 - but that how its listed on his proposal).
Also - the older unit is 4 ton and the new one is 5 ton... reason being - we've added 2 sets of glass double doors and a 200 sq. foot addition to the house that has all glass walls n one side - hence more umph needed (i'm guessing at this - its what the vendor told me).
Or is there a combination not yet offerred that provides better cooling at lower operating cost - but is perhaps freon?
[Edited by tommyz on 07-17-2006 at 05:36 PM]
07-17-2006, 05:40 PM
The Rheem has a two stage compressor, That should help with the home when in part load conditions. I dont know about the other two. It also incorporates the On Demand Dehumidification. Included in the RANL is a copeland comfort alert. I assume they are all VS. The system will monitor and control the compressor and trigger fault codes for your technician. He can even wire them up to blink fault codes at the stat.
The latent capacities on that unit are pretty good (humidity removal). Its also a lower profile outdoor unit. Any 5 ton air handler is going to be a monster.
A load calc should be done, and if it has fine, Not many brands offer a 4.5 ton. Again, another reason to consider the two stage unit.
07-17-2006, 05:57 PM
Thanks so much for your quick response. What does "VS" mean? If the Rheem is two stage that sounds good. And - it fell squarely in the middle of the other two units as regards pricing.
BTW - no load calc was done to my knowledge. I know folks on this site insist they be done - but if you've read my other post it took calling no less than 7 companies - some multiple times just to get 1 to show up - and that one told me I didn't need a load calc. 1 other company associated with Sears called and said they were on their way (2 hours after the agreed upon interval period) - but then decided not to when I told them I only had an hour left before having to be back at work.
I'm still trying with home depot - and one gentlemen on this site suggested his company - although his website says "commercial installations" - and this is residential.
[Edited by tommyz on 07-17-2006 at 06:07 PM]
07-17-2006, 06:15 PM
VS is variable speed blower in the furnace or airhandler.
If the contractors won't do a load calc, download the software and do it yourself. $50 and a hour or so of your time for a system you will live with for the next 20+ years. A link is at the top of main forum page.
Rheem and York are the two value brands I looked at. Trane is nice, but you pay a lot for the name.
To find SEER etc there are really only two places to look;
http://www.aridirectory.org which is the main database.
http://www.ceehvacdirectory.org which sorts out energystar compliance.
Something you might want to consider is if the system meets tier 2 energystar you may be eligible for IRS tax credits up to $500.
07-17-2006, 06:46 PM
Hate to disagree with you guys but the RANL060 is a single stage unit, rated at 13.5 SEER with the RHLL6024. I don't see the ComfortAlert on that unless there is a new JEZ model like on the RAND. The old Lennox HS14 is 2 stage however. 10-11 SEER which was amazing in its day.
The 2 Trane air handlers he had quoted were variable speed. Correcting the ratings, the R410a system is 13.00 SEER and the R22 system is 14.00 SEER. Hmmm, and they say R410a is more efficient :confused:
Final question, did these dealers check the duct system and make sure it can handle a 25% increase in airflow that the bigger unit needs? Our experience up here says most barely handle what they have! :(
07-17-2006, 09:15 PM
Doh you're right Bald, How embarrasing. The heat must have got to me. I was thinking RARL.
I get confused with all these new numbers too.
OP, ignore everything I said.
07-17-2006, 11:18 PM
He looked at them - didn't say whether or not they (the ducts) would present a problem. Guess I'll have to ask. Also - looks like I need to download the load calc software. I know my current system - which someone here said was 10-11 SEER 2 stage keeps the house fairly cool - except on the hottest days and is a 4 ton unit. This guy suggested 5 due to the addition but mentioned nothing about the ducts.
Can someone point out where on the ducts they indicate what tonnage they can handle? Mine seem like fiberglass wrapped in aluminum?
07-18-2006, 08:07 AM
If each increase in seer ='s 10% more efficiency and there are tonnage expressed 1-5 - then why would increasing froma 4 tons to 5 tons = 25% more airflow? I would think 20% at most?
07-18-2006, 08:38 AM
If your old system is still running, or at least the air handler, taking static pressure readings would give some indication as to how well the ductwork is handling the 4 ton. If the pressures are already marginal, or high, then you would need to do some work to run a 5 ton on that ductwork. My guess would be that you are going to have to do some work in order to get a 5 ton to work properly on ductwork installed with a 4 ton system. I recently redid two units at a church that had their units changed from 3 ton to 5 ton without doing any ductwork. It was a fiasco.
07-18-2006, 08:45 AM
Hmmm - interesting. My airflow is minimal now with my 4 ton. I.e holding a hand up to the vents you feel air flow by - but not like its a breeze or anything. As I said I'll mention it - but would be highly suprised that any amount of airflow could move these things - they seem near solid. These aren't tubes or some such thing - don't know what kind of ductwork is run in other parts of the country... but here I've tried to even screw in new registers and the stuff is so solid I had to use a drill just to get a screw started into them. Again - I'll mention it... but it would seem odd to me.
07-18-2006, 08:46 AM
SEER is a measure of how much electricity the unit will use per BTU of cooling. Tonnage is a measure of how much heat the unit will remove. A 3 ton 10 SEER unit and a 3 ton 17 SEER unit will remove the *same* amount of heat from the house. Your electric bill will be lower with the 17, though.
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