New install with pics.

[southeflorida]

This new system was installed 2 days ago.

Trane XL14i 2TTX4030
Air Handler TWE040E13FB (variable speed)
Thermostat TCONT602

Thermostat was relocated and a 2nd return was installed.
A new 45 amp circuit breaker was supposed to be installed but wasn't...the orginal 30amp is still there (will be calling on that today)

On the morning of the install the installer came to me and told me the air handler specified in the contract was too big. He wanted to substitute a smaller unit, the TWE037, which would have reduced the BTU's to 31,600 (the 40 gave 33,200). I would not give my go-ahead until I spoke with person who had sold me the system. He insisted the 40 go in as that is what the Manual J indicated we need. He said it would fit "but won't meet code"...apparently the truss design prevents the door from being opened properly, but the unit is still servicable. I was very concerned on this code thing. Long story short...he sent me an email stating "...should it not pass inspection we will take the nessecary steps at no charge to you..." .Also says " This may require installing a smaller air handler or other changes". Am I a bonehead for giving the ok?
The attic area where the air handler is (and was) is extremely small btw.

The following pictures are what I could get of the air handler. My ladder is too short to allow me to get into the attic so I held the camera above my head a tried to get some shots to show you pros. As for the bushes around the outside unit...I offered (twice) to cut them to the ground so they'd have better access but they declined.

I'm looking for feedback from the pros...pro or con...before paying the 50% balance I owe. (which I thought was to be paid to the installers but they said no)
I will not post my comments at this time but will wait to hear what you have to say.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5793/condenser11nf8.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8983/wireingfi2.jpg
The light gray box is from the utility service which allows them to shut down my air during periods of high demand. The box in the middle is the old box, the installers put in the third box and tied it into the old existing box.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1598/condens4re6.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6328/airhand10lg9.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5956/airhandleft6gx9.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5678/airhand7pf2.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9871/insul8yr2.jpg

[jeffshvac]

sloppy workmanship the foil tape looks like a hack installed it.the duct tape around the lineset looks unprofessional and the condenser is too close to the wall.id post it in the hall of shame pics.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by southeflorida

I'm looking for feedback from the pros...pro or con...before paying the 50% balance I owe. (which I thought was to be paid to the installers but they said no)
I will not post my comments at this time but will wait to hear what you have to say.

Personally regardless of what we say you should pay the contractor and then come here and ask questions in all fairness to the contractor, hell anyone can be a critic there standing on every street corner, and lurk here like there waiting on these kind of threads,if you trusted the contractor to install your system why not trust him to come back if you have a few issues? I tend to develop an attitude when someone like you does what you did come here and ask for opinions before I am paid, pay him and give him a chance to correct the issues you have if you wait thats just bad business on your part and when you work all this out and your happy and have paid him he "might" remember how your were and have an attitude when you have an issue down the road, this does happen believe me.

[tigerdunes]

southeflorida

I agree with Jeff's comments. Not the kind of HVAC workmanship, neatness, attn to detail that I would accept.
It does look like the condenser is too close to wall. Was a new lineset installed? But what I don't understand is why the condenser is facing backwards? Is this some kind of application issue that the picture does not show? All those shrubs/bushes,plants also need a good trimming. The install at the condenser is just plain sloppy.

I'm not really concerned about the air handler change as long as it is considered matching equipment and does not affect the SEER rating for your system.The pictures for the air handler are just not clear enough for me to make a comment but based on the condenser,I would really go over this area very closely.

I don't agree with MrBillPro's comments. Hold back 20-25% until you are satisfied, but let them know in writing what you want corrected. I would hope some Trane dealers on this forum see these pictures. BTW, how is it performing?


My opinion.

[Edited by tigerdunes on 07-17-2006 at 12:26 PM]

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by tigerdunes
southeflorida

But what I don't understand is why the condenser is facing backwards?
My Opinion.

So how would you get into the service panel to service it if the unit installed with the lineset close to the wall or turned that direction?

[tigerdunes]

mrbillpro

I am very familiar with these units and the service panel is located on the back corner and is very accessible to all but a 300# lineman.

IMO

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by tigerdunes
mrbillpro
is very accessible to all but a 300# lineman.

IMO

Well we have some of those in this business. :D

[kayjh]

I would hold back a portion of the contract price until the work is completed to a proper standard. Anyone who would advise that you pay the bill in full and then wait for the contractor to come back and fix it has either never found themselves in the position of having to chase a contractor to complete a job, or doesn't like to have to go back and fix things and likes to get paid forst so he/shoe won't have to.

If you know this contractor well and can trust that he/she will return in a timely fashion to complete the work, then you may consider to pay the balance before the work has been completed.

[rc_crfan]

Sorry, but that XL14i being placed like that is out of sheer laziness- plain and simple. I have the XL14i and it is facing the correct way-with the service panel facing the house. Cut those bushes, then have them come and face that compressor the right way and make neater that lineset and wiring. Jeezz...

[rc_crfan]

Also, unless your electric service account mandates that Utility control box for whatever reason, have the electrician remove it. Why would you want the Utility Company controlling your comfort? You're paying for the electricity and you should be able to control your comfort, not the utility company. They tried that in my area, and I told them to go screw...

[tigerdunes]

rc_crfan

Thank you for your comments regarding the placement of the XL14i condenser. MrBillPro obviously thought I had an attitude but I just like things installed correctly and that condenser should be turned to face outwards unless there is a darn good reason not to. And that reason does not include ignorance, laziness, or just plain don't give a SXXX. I would expect any real Trane pro on this forum to beg forgiveness for such a hack looking install.

And there is nothing wrong in the business world holding a small percentage $$ back if job not installed to homeowners satisfaction as long as you are not nitpicking.

My opinion.

[mayguy]

I agree with Tiger and RC.

Clean up or cut out the srubs, let that unit BREATH.


Get them back and clean up the poor workmanship.

-Turn the unit around.
-Redo the breaker/fuse box.. clean up.
-Foil tape!?

I see some pipe/cut not insualted?

[nina]

southeflorida wrote:
> This new system was installed 2 days ago.

care to share the name of the company?

[southeflorida]

Thank you all for your comments. Just to clarify (mrbillpro), I fully intend to pay the company. As I said, I thought I was to, and was prepared to, pay the installers the balance when they finished the install. They said I don't pay them, that "someone would be by early next week".
I'm just looking for feedback here, from the pros, because I am not an expert in the HVAC field. To my 'un-expert' eye I wonder if this install was done correctly. I want to have specific, *educated* comments to make to the company rep when they come here.

I've never seen the lines from the house to the condenser run the way this one is, but I don't know if it's ok or not. As some pointed out the service panel is on the corner, right now facing into the bush. If it had been turned a 1/4 turn the panel would be readily accessable AND the lines would have been short from house to condenser. The concenses seems to be that we have the unit turned.

"Tigerdunes" asked if new lineset was installed. New copper tube was soldered onto the existing tubeing to make them long enough. (Don't quote me on the 'soldered'. They may ahve been brazed but I don't know the difference) The 'Being backwards' thing: I know nothing about if there were any application issues or not....no one said anything to me about it anyway.

As to the condenser being too close to the house as some of you mention.
It is too close. The 'Installer's Guide' says it "must be placed a minimum of 12 inches from any wall...". Ours is 10 1/2 inches. ...an inch and a half difference...how important is that?
The existing pad was used and the unit sits right on the edge. If told a new pad was needed we would have had it done, but it was never mentioned by any of the companies we had do estimates. BUT it's possible there's a code issue with locating any further from the house...I know city code states "no structure" may be closer then 10ft of the property line. Is the AC unit and pad considered 'structure'?

The tieing into the old electrical box seems odd/bad to me, instead of removing it completely and replacing with the new one. Or just use the old one...why add another one in the first place?

Maybe I can get some clearer pictures of the handler after the battery recharges. Given what's been said so far I AM pretty concerned.

[southeflorida]

'mayguy'...
I'm not clear on what you mean...
"Redo the breaker/fusebox"...the outside boxes? Do what to them? Or the inside panel with the change out from the 30amp to the 45amp breaker?
Also "Foil tape"...what are you referring too?
and "pipe/cut not insulated"...??

'nina'...
Given that the comments here indicate this isn't a great install and the company has not yet had a chance to make it right...I don't think in all fairness to them that I should post their name in a public forum. Better to give them the chance first, don't you agree?

We chose this company because the salesrep was professional and knowledgable. He didn't try to snow me, he did a Manual J (which no one else wanted to do), he answered all my questions thoroughly...his price was NOT the least expensive...but we felt best about his company.

'rc_crfan'...
Thanks for your imput. About the utility companiy's box...it was here when we bought the place 4yrs ago. Decided to leave it and see if it caused us any issues. It didn't so it remains.

[danglerb]

The utility company shutoff on demand here in Calif is worth some serious money, like $200 or $400 a season I think, depends on when and how often they can turn it off. Off isn't for very long either, just the 4 to 6 hours of peak demand in the afternoon. Money means nothing to me so I didn't opt for it.

Orientation, extra service box, no new pad and too close to the house, that all adds up to sloppy.

Before the guy comes out I suggest two things;

Trim the bushes WELL, should have been done before they came out the first time.

Make a list of the things you want explained or corrected, but have their guy go over the system first and tell you what he thinks should be fixed, then add your list to his.

Holding back 25% until its "really" fixed seems reasonable. Do you have any kind of longer term coverage from this company, or just the brand warranty?

[mayguy]

Originally posted by southeflorida
'mayguy'...
I'm not clear on what you mean...
"Redo the breaker/fusebox"...the outside boxes? Do what to them? Or the inside panel with the change out from the 30amp to the 45amp breaker?
Also "Foil tape"...what are you referring too?
and "pipe/cut not insulated"...??


I meant the outside box (Disconnect).

Foil tape on the air handler. Should be a good tight fitting already that's why it's called it "Air Tite". I would scream and cry if my equipment was all taped up like that.

I ment to put a d in (Pipe/duct).. On the lower part of your attic pictures I see some round pipes that are not insulated.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by southeflorida

As to the condenser being too close to the house as some of you mention.
It is too close. The 'Installer's Guide' says it "must be placed a minimum of 12 inches from any wall...". Ours is 10 1/2 inches. ...an inch and a half difference...how important is that?

Glad I don't sell those railroad cars I would hate to have to service something in the a/c service panel if it was turned toward the house with a 10.5" or even a 12' clearance I guess you have to be a little of a contortionist to change out the cap or contactor in those railroad cars. :D
I sell RUUD you can turn it anyway you want and have it easy to service they thought of the service guy unlike the rail road car company.

[lonnirat]

One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

[lawdawg0321]

are you sure that mr billpro isnt the installer looking for a quick buck???.lol. i would call Trane and have them send a rep out. They need to have a talk with the installer , if he is Trane authorized. I wouldn't pay another penny till i had a Trane rep out there to inspect .

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by lawdawg0321
are you sure that mr billpro isnt the installer looking for a quick buck???.lol.

Not me I don't install that junk. :D
You want to see my installs look in the "wall of pride" may have to search there pretty old but we still do wall of pride installs.

[danglerb]

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

We don't talk about prices so how the heck are we supposed to know whats a low bid?

A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.

Sloppy work comes from shops of all sizes and in all price ranges. What keeps them in business are high margins from slick professional sales presentations and customers who never look at the work.

[andserco]

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.


[/B] Sir, You dont have a clue..do you??

[mark beiser]

The foil tape on the air handler makes it look sloppy, but it looks like they made it so it is easy to service the blower section. I would have used mylar tape around the access panels. If the coil ever needs to be pulled out, it could be a problem though. The "smaller" air handler wouldn't have been any better of a fit.
It looks to me like they did ok on the indor part considdering what they had to work with.
The only real issues I see in the attic that I would have them fix is that it looks like the emergency drain pan is not piped out, and it's hard to tell, but it looks like the secondary drain outlet from the air handler is still capped.
I would have them pipe an emergency drain line out from the emergency drain pan so that it dripps outside if water gets in the pan. The secondary drain outlet from the air handler needs to be unplugged and piped into the emergency drain line you have them install.
The way it is now, if the primary drain cloggs, water will overflow the internal drain pan in the unit and flood the inside of the air handler before it runs down into the emergency pan.

The installation of the outdoor unit wasn't lazyness, it was just plain stupidity IMO. They actually made more work for themselves installing it that way!
It looks like they could have installed it the "right" way around, and moved it to the left about a foot or so. They would have been able to use the origonal disconnect, or installed a new one in the existing location, and avoid having to jumper over to a 2nd disconnect.
It would also have allowed the refrigerant lines to be run neetly behind the unit with less copper.

I would recommend removing the bushes that are right by the unit to maximize airflow through the area.

[southeflorida]

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

Had 5 estimates done. This was the 2nd highest bid.

[tigerdunes]

Originally posted by southeflorida

"Tigerdunes" asked if new lineset was installed. New copper tube was soldered onto the existing tubeing to make them long enough. (Don't quote me on the 'soldered'. They may ahve been brazed but I don't know the difference) The 'Being backwards' thing: I know nothing about if there were any application issues or not....no one said anything to me about it anyway.



SoutheFlorida

I would follow up also on the lineset. I don't like the idea of reusing the old and specifically lengthening it with another piece. I prefer a properly sized (OD, ID and length)new lineset be installed with all new installs. This looks like another issue that benefits the dealer at the expense of the homeowner. Perhaps some HVAC pros could comment on this.

IMO

[lonnirat]

Originally posted by southeflorida

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

Had 5 estimates done. This was the 2nd highest bid.

My sympathy's.

[danglerb]

Originally posted by andserco

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.


Sir, You dont have a clue..do you?? [/B]

I love these sage posts about how I or somebody else knows nothing, then say nothing and add nothing. What exactly is it that is all wrong?

Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid.

[hugodrax]

that unit outside looks like it is tilted.

I live in southflorida and they replaced the existing linesets with a whole new lineset, also they put these rubber pads between the outside unit and the new slab (I was told this prevents standing water from collecting) It passed inspection with no problems.

Honestly I would be upset myself at that installation. Do you live near Miami?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by danglerb


Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid.

danglerb, I enjoy reading your posts and I am not here to bite back at you or anyone but can I pose an honest question for you? If hacks reside in both small business and in big business like larger a/c shops would not your ratio of hacks will be more in the larger shops "correct" in the real a/c world? You can only adopt an opinion like a typical HO that does not see these jobs everyday unless your in the business, unlike us and are getting feedback from the Homeowners who did the job and 85% are the larger companys.
I can tell you from my personal 30 years of experience in the business most of the hack work has been done by the larger shops pressuring there guys to do multiple installs a day or service calls, I did not just pull this info out of my head this is the Gods honest truth. FYI yes we are a 8 man shop I would say that is small, but we also with a limited amount of guys don't push or guys to the max, we take all the time we need to do each service call and install because we schedule out each day to do a certain amount of jobs and we all like to go home at least by 6:00 PM if we can we are not a 24/7 emergency type business and we all have done very well running the business like this.
Maybe in your town the hacks reside in the smaller shops but they sure don't in Houston,Tx. matter fact I have seen more pride in 2 man shops here than I ever have in "ANY" large shop.

[hugodrax]

I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.

[dash]

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.


Hi hugo,The pics of your install sure looked a lot better,how's the system working,how the kw usage?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.


Yes and I am sure that with these large a/c companys pushing all there employees to the max everyday it's every quality a/c guy's dream to have a job there, so the quality of the employees are going to improve,:rolleyes: this is just typical folks that cannot relate to this business.

[southeflorida]

I tried to get some clearer shots of the air handler but it was tough not having a tall enough ladder.
A company rep is coming here tomorrow morning. On the plus side, when I called they were very concerned I "have some issues" as I put it...and want me "100% satisfied".
Here's the pics...comments?

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8048/ahflexlz6.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4005/ahpanrs2.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6237/ahleft2ix1.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1687/ahpipecy0.jpg

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by danglerb

Originally posted by andserco

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.


Sir, You dont have a clue..do you??

I love these sage posts about how I or somebody else knows nothing, then say nothing and add nothing. What exactly is it that is all wrong?

Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid. [/B]

In the DFW area of Texas, the best way to virtually guarantee you get a hack system install is to go with the highest priced big companies, lol.

[HeyBob]

The biggest hacks in my area are the largest companies, both larger than mine. The crap they install would blow your mind.

[danglerb]

Consider me beaten into submission. I was just speculating.

In SoCal maybe we just have more flavors, with many unlicensed contractors running around in all the trades. We have a really large pool of half trained labor, that many places can't resist taking advantage of.

Some flavors are;

Scammers, guys who go after inflated bids on stuff people don't need, then just sub out all the work, or replace a dangerous furnace by cleaning the outside of the old one with some windex.

Shops that sell more stuff then they have time to do a decent job of installing.

Shops that hire on a load of semiskllled for the busy season.

Generic lowballers who mix and match whatever parts are cheap, and never pull a permit before a job in their life.

Anyway, I am just speculating while I wait to see a signed contract.

[hugodrax]

Originally posted by dash

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.


Hi hugo,The pics of your install sure looked a lot better,how's the system working,how the kw usage?

Its working great, I need to get my electric bill and check out the numbers but last time I looked it was much lower than the old unit which was a 3 ton system, (this one 4ton/2ton)

Anyhow its running now in the low speed right now I configured the Tstat to keep the house 80degrees inside and set to 78 degrees at 4:30pm and the humiditystat to 50% the screen shows 78/49%

I got home around 5:00pm and it was already 78 degrees with it running silent. What confuses me is I hear folks talking about setting temps to 73 degrees but if I did that I think I would shiver from the cold.

Anyhow I am going to get my dad one of these units installed, he has a Rheem that cycles like crazy its a 3ton unit and I think when it was installed it was oversized I dont know who installed it.

Anyhow when Guests visit they notice the difference indoors compared to thier homes. lol

[pecmsg]

Southflorida

Something has caught my eye in your latest pic’s. Anyone else see these problems?

1st pic: shows the A/H hanging from the roof rafters by chain. (Forget the flex that’s crushed) No support in the middle of the cabinet.

2nd pic: do I see the cabinet bowing between the sections? Blower door not fitting properly? (Maybe that’s why all the tape) Overflow pan secured from the cabinet, not from below. Something is going to give if that pan ever fills with water!

So what did the Company Rep have to say???

[danglerb]

Originally posted by hugodrax

I got home around 5:00pm and it was already 78 degrees with it running silent. What confuses me is I hear folks talking about setting temps to 73 degrees but if I did that I think I would shiver from the cold.

Anyhow I am going to get my dad one of these units installed, he has a Rheem that cycles like crazy its a 3ton unit and I think when it was installed it was oversized I dont know who installed it.
[/B]

What some people do is set the temp a bit lower, but have the system stop cooling when humidity reaches a set point, like don't cool past 77 or 55% humidity which ever happens first.

Comfortable seems to vary from about 65 to 85 depending on the person.

A single stage cooling, single speed blower is going to behave differently than a 2 stage variable speed blower, but a smarter thermostat might be able to optimize the on/off cycles for more comfort or longer run times.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by danglerb
Comfortable seems to vary from about 65 to 85 depending on the person.




65°

http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/mrbillpro/images/fat-lady-on-bench.jpg


85°

http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/mrbillpro/images/skinny.jpg

[aircooled53]

Originally posted by mark beiser

Originally posted by danglerb

Originally posted by andserco

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.


Sir, You dont have a clue..do you??

I love these sage posts about how I or somebody else knows nothing, then say nothing and add nothing. What exactly is it that is all wrong?

Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid.

In the DFW area of Texas, the best way to virtually guarantee you get a hack system install is to go with the highest priced big companies, lol. [/B]

I would have to agree with that, but, sometimes; guy's get into a hurry and with homeowners, yelling how much longer until we have a/c..That does not look like it was hacked..
Let HVAC contractor take a look, and ask for items to be done as long as it was in the BID>>>>>

I don't agree with the disconnect issue, I would make them change-it. As for smack-up tape; adhesive turns loose at 125* and we use mastic.

My (2)cents worth~~

[southeflorida]

Originally posted by pecmsg
Southflorida

Something has caught my eye in your latest pic’s. Anyone else see these problems?

1st pic: shows the A/H hanging from the roof rafters by chain. (Forget the flex that’s crushed) No support in the middle of the cabinet.

2nd pic: do I see the cabinet bowing between the sections? Blower door not fitting properly? (Maybe that’s why all the tape) Overflow pan secured from the cabinet, not from below. Something is going to give if that pan ever fills with water!

So what did the Company Rep have to say???

You're right pecmsg. The AH does hang by chains from the rafters, with no support in the middle. Also the overflow pan hangs from the unit. I assume since you're pointing it out that it's a problem. What should I say to the company?

The rep was here yesterday. He inspected the system and did not raise any issues. W went over the list of things brought up here in earlier posts that I'd written down.
His respones below.

Outside unit:
The unit is longer then it is wide. The only way it would fit on the existing pad is for it to sit the way they installed it. The proposal does say "Location same as existing". He said they would come back and put in a new pad if we wanted but there would be an additional charge for doing it. I understand that, since it was not part of the original cost out. He said the unit will be as efficient and last just as long if we leave it the way it is now.

"Reconnect to existing refridgerant line set" is also in the proposal so it's my bad for not being aware that they should be replaced entirely. He said the added length will not effect performance.

It's being only 10 inches from the house rather then the 12 specified in the installers guide will not effect it. (I did remove the bushes after he left for airflow)

The rep did send someone over to level the pad yesterday. It now sits level.

Code does not allow the disconnect box to sit behind the unit as the old one had. So the new box was installed. I either just don't recall his response, or we didn't get into why the old box wasn't entirely removed tho.



AirHandler:
The foil tape is an extra measure the company does to ensure an air tight seal.

'Overflow to outside'. Not needed. There are 2 overflow safety floatswitches, one in the unit itself and one in the overflow pan. The unit would shut itself down before draining to outside.

The capped off pipe is for flushing purposes.

pecmsg's post wasn't here before the rep came so those issues I didn't bring up becasue I didn't know better.

He did change out the circuit breaker

After we'd gone over my list I told him about this forum, the posting of my pics and your responses. I gave him a copy of it I printed out. He glanced through it and asked if he could take it with him to show his boss. I'm a small business owner/operator in another trade. I know what I'd do if my staff handed me something simular...and it wouldn't be filing it under "T"

(BTW,Someone brought up un-insulated duct in one of the pictures. That's the clothes dryer ductwork, not the AC's.)

The 'Final Inspection' was done this morning and the city inspector signed off. Never mentioned anything about it not meeting code.

We just have the manufactuers warranty at the moment (we can purchase a Trane extended warranty anytime in the next 5 yrs).
10yr Compressor
10yr Condensor coil
10yr Evaporator fan motor
10yr Functional parts
2yr Labor
There's also a 1 yr that says "... system is warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use and maitenance..."


So. What do you think?

[southeflorida]

I would have to agree with that, but, sometimes; guy's get into a hurry and with homeowners, yelling how much longer until we have a/c..That does not look like it was hacked..
Let HVAC contractor take a look, and ask for items to be done as long as it was in the BID>>>>>

I don't agree with the disconnect issue, I would make them change-it. As for smack-up tape; adhesive turns loose at 125* and we use mastic.

My (2)cents worth~~
Didn't see your post before I wrote my last one.

I in no way shape or form rushed the installers. I stayed out of their hair and let them do their jobs. I even told them late in the afternoon that if they wanted to call it a day and come back that it was ok with me. I didn't want to be a PITA customer. I travelled back here from out of state for this install and did not complian when they called and asked me if it was ok to change my install from Monday to Friday...because I didn't want them to have to rush the work here. I put out water, sodas and some snacks they could grab when they wanted (instead of just saying "if you want anything just ask").

I totally agree with you regarding "items being in the bid"...I don't expect anything for free. I would have liked to have had the option, when the bid was done, of a new pad and lineset etc. if they were needed or a better option. Heard the pros and cons (and costs yes) then made an INFORMED decision. Instead of wanting/needing changes done after the install

Good point about the tape.

[hugodrax]

So these guys saw the existing equipment and the size of pad it sat on and did not specify new pad to fit new system correctly, and did not bother to level it? can you PM me with the company name? Anyhow thats why you pay them to install, your not supposed to have to figure this stuff out ie lineset/pad etc..

I suspect I know who it is. before my Install I had 3 quotes. Is it that company that does not only HVAC work but Home/commercial electrical work and IT datacommunications and Radio towers!

[dash]

Originally posted by hugodrax

Originally posted by dash

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.


Hi hugo,The pics of your install sure looked a lot better,how's the system working,how the kw usage?

Its working great, I need to get my electric bill and check out the numbers but last time I looked it was much lower than the old unit which was a 3 ton system, (this one 4ton/2ton)

Anyhow its running now in the low speed right now I configured the Tstat to keep the house 80degrees inside and set to 78 degrees at 4:30pm and the humiditystat to 50% the screen shows 78/49%

I got home around 5:00pm and it was already 78 degrees with it running silent. What confuses me is I hear folks talking about setting temps to 73 degrees but if I did that I think I would shiver from the cold.

Anyhow I am going to get my dad one of these units installed, he has a Rheem that cycles like crazy its a 3ton unit and I think when it was installed it was oversized I dont know who installed it.

Anyhow when Guests visit they notice the difference indoors compared to thier homes. lol


Great ,we hear the "when guests visit" thing from a lot of Infinity owners too,sometimes gets us the referal.

Happy to hear all is well with your system.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by hugodrax
So these guys saw the existing equipment and the size of pad it sat on and did not specify new pad to fit new system correctly, and did not bother to level it?

Well there you go they must have forgot to read the manual. :D

[xv80satisfiedcust]

mrbillpro - I agree with your opinion of the large HVAC companies. Rush jobs always lead to problems.

My furnace was done in December. 2 guys, took them 6 hours. I wouldn't have cared if it took 12 hours. I told them to take their time. It wasn't like they had to rush off for a service call. One guy wasn't Mr speedy. The other guy was new. But, they were very thorough.

Heat pump installers (April) were more skilled, worked faster, but "got called to another job" towards the end. They did ok. Someday I'll post pics - but I know it's brutal comments, but hey that's how the other HVAC Talk Pro's learn - from other customer's shortcomings. (Better that than their own mistakes).


danglerb,

Shops that hire on a load of semiskllled for the busy season.

I agree completely. Not to prolong your search, but why are you shopping for AC in the busy season? Do you think prices will go up in the fall? Last year was heavy demand in my area - utility rebates for 13 seer (I'm laughing) and high demand for 10 seer due to phaseout.

[xv80satisfiedcust]

By the way, on those 65/85 pics, is the 65's stomach hanging that low ??? Can the skin ever be washed inbetween those folds?

I shouldn't talk so harshly, but let's just say I owned a car in Virginia with NO air conditioning.

[dirtyboy103us]

i take exception to these guys on here that complained about the tape job in a attic or the installation as a whole...
Monday morning quarterbacks that don't get on the field anymore...
what month are we in guys
whens the last time you got in an attic that had very poor
ventilation and a 4 pitch roof and the temp was at 160 or better and you put a piece of tape on there and its wet with sweat and wont stick
should they have told this Florida home-moaner they'll come back in the morning to finish the job i don't think so
and look at the nice 2x4 plat form they had to stand on for how many hours bent over resting one foot on that nice plat form and the space that was afforded them to install the condenser might as well had rose bushes there to poke them every time they moved

oh yeah these guys will have the nuts to tell a home-moaner to rip out his plants so they can install an ugly system yeah right so they can get a ream job from their manager get real here and come back to reality

probably work piece rate so for the couple bucks they got paid and ran

i live in Fla and have been up in those attic jobs and you do the best you can at the time

the home moaner was probably told 5 years ago that it needed replacement and waited till July when it finally quit and now its a emergency and made those poor souls get up in that hot attic then wouldn't find a ladder to get up there himself to take a decent pic and "their" lazy and sloppy


get a life


i think i know this guy

[billygoat22]

I find it strange noone mentioned that Trane specifices for installers to seal ALL penetrations, like the romex clamps, to prevent condensation damage in the a/h handler cabinent. I seal the romex, tstat wires and even the lineset holes. Any hole is fair game for the caulk or mastic brush.

Remember how those breakers used to go bad and they added that door? I've taped a Rheem unit in a crawl where there were moisture issues in house. And replaced breakers on a 2 year old a/h where the breaker door was left open.

Drain pan IS a bit shallow looking for my liking, but they got penty of safeties on it (assuming correct slope).

They did do transitions off unit

I've turned od units before. Only with the door facing out. You don't need 30" between multiple unit so can have shorter pad, or fit a provided pad. Or get between bushes with single unit. 30" clearence to access panel and not cutting out whole bush on one side, win win.

In this case I would have shifted (prepoured?) pad to left to clear old disconnect, and connected lineset with unit faced "normally".

Not too bad compared to what you normally see in attics.