Where Is My Big Gulp?

[hvacker]

I’m sure you’ve heard Hsonerdamaor Mr. Bloomberg of NYC is moving to ban large soft drinks to attempt to control our obesity. This comes after controlling transfats in fast food and smoking in public. I understand no smoking in public as the person next to you can’t just stop breathing while you exercise some Constitutional right you claim to have but the other stuff? So where else can DA Maor go with this? To become the east coast San Francisco why not do the following also.

Ban all manner of treats, Twinkies, HoHo’s etc.
As people with hyper activity problems have 2-4 times the number of traffic accidents, they can’t drive.
No more mobile use of any communications device. (I might not have a problem with this one)
As alcohol is a public health problem no more 6 packs, just one beer at a time and whiskey only in those little bottles alcoholics like.
As people carry unwanted genes in their DNA no more breeding uncontrolled.
Only take recreational drugs approved by the FDA.
Any activity that could or might affect public health financially is illegal.

Also illegal is anyone quoting Larry Flint’s belief “The right to be left alone”

[tunnel_rat]

Really...If we're gonna get serious about this shiite, let's go all out. Libs make no sense at all. Like a tick on your crotch just nibbling away at your rights, hoping soon you'll say uncle. Or Mommy Obama.......

[Hugh B]

This is a good example of how government "gradualism" works. First government provides you with health care. Then they reason that if they are providing your health care they need to curtain what you eat because your eating habits are running up health care costs.

One thing logically leads to another and slowly and gradually government takes over most if not all aspects of our lives. All due to the wonderful liberals who want to help you out.

[printer2]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?

[Tool-Slinger]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?
I think it would be easier and fairer to tax fat. $100 per pound over ideal height/weight.

[coolwhip]

For your listening pleasure!:cheers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3bVtAH3Tc

[hvacker]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?



I don't think people are stupid I think they have become comfortable with their condition at least to the point of not wanting to change very much.

Don't be too quick to,load this all on liberals aether. Some of them are freaking over this overreach also. Many doctors realize that they can give advice about many things but often they can't tell a patent what to eat. That is a sacred place only the person can go even if they believe the doc.
I'm in that place where I value personal liberty enough to tell Hsonerdamayr to bite me.
We live in an imperfect world where there are many activities affecting the public health service including both legal and illegal activities. That's the human situation. Most accept that efforts to control them will probably result in little effect. We, in NM have a state legislator trying to ban all pain killers more than 10 pills. Never mind that she isn't qualified as a health care professional.
It's the neurotic need to control that is the true motivation behind many of these efforts. Not knowing one's boundaries.

[Tool-Slinger]

LOL!!! Prolly not smart to advertize "my old mans a fatso" for a 20 year old. Girls know these things genetically run in the family.

Oh yeah, one other thing, dad owns the house so better not to pi55 him off with rude comments.

Nice tune though....:cheers:

[printer2]

I don't think people are stupid I think they have become comfortable with their condition at least to the point of not wanting to change very much.

Don't be too quick to,load this all on liberals aether. Some of them are freaking over this overreach also. Many doctors realize that they can give advice about many things but often they can't tell a patent what to eat. That is a sacred place only the person can go even if they believe the doc.
I'm in that place where I value personal liberty enough to tell Hsonerdamayr to bite me.
We live in an imperfect world where there are many activities affecting the public health service including both legal and illegal activities. That's the human situation. Most accept that efforts to control them will probably result in little effect. We, in NM have a state legislator trying to ban all pain killers more than 10 pills. Never mind that she isn't qualified as a health care professional.
It's the neurotic need to control that is the true motivation behind many of these efforts. Not knowing one's boundaries.

Funny how 40 years ago a pop would be a 12 oz bottle and now for example 7-Eleven cup sizes are from 20 - 64 ounces. It has been proven that if you put an excessive amount of food or drink in front of a person they are going to consume more of it. The proof is in the pudding (or waist size) people do not know how to control themselves. Wonder if this is how Rome fell.

[coolwhip]

Boulders roll down a mountain and Im a sure a fat man will.:grin2:

[Hugh B]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?

Do you actually believe that it is the government's responsibility to tell me how big a soda I can drink? You don't see this as yet another step in the direction of personal intrusion and loss of personal freedom?

[corny]

Just something to get his face in the news......

Im going to golden corral to fix myself a 12,000 calorie salad but I will only have a glass of water or unsweet tea with it.

I will have plain black coffee with my plate of chocolate ice cream covered brownies.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?

It is the responsibility of the obese person to take care of themselves... if they do not, they need to be allowed to deal with the consequences of their lack of responsible choices.

It is NOT my problem if someone chooses to not take care of their health... it is THEIR problem. Creating safety nets does not fix many folks... what it does is force me to pay for your irresponsibility... which is NOT in line with the founding documents of this country... See this thread:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=13360541#post13360541

[corny]

I'll have a double with cheese....make that xtra cheese please....and a large order of fries.....a and a medium frosty..... you dont have medium ???.... then just give me a large....and I also need a small diet coke please.

[printer2]

Do you actually believe that it is the government's responsibility to tell me how big a soda I can drink? You don't see this as yet another step in the direction of personal intrusion and loss of personal freedom?

Do you not see the effect your population's gluttony is having on your nation? If it were only 10%, 20% or 30% of your population it might be manageable. And it is not the government telling you how much soda you can drink. It is the government setting limits on the size of drink that can be served 'with sugar in it'. Diet drinks there is no limit. If you want to buy two when they no longer sell them by the bucket that is up to you.

[corny]

The point is printer.... that the banning of big gulps is just rediculous......

I mean seriously.....

America is king of the all you can eat buffet and the salad bar....... where people build 10000 calorie salads for lunch.....

You should see some of the salads I build......lots of cheese and ham......mushrooms....more cheese....... some crackers or bread to go with the salad....and I usually use blue cheese dressing and lots of it though lately I have been dousing the whole thing with low cal dressing.....

And Im not alone in that.

So... restricting drink size is just rediculous...especially when you can buy as many smaller sizes as you want.....and when you can buy a dozen double cheeseburgers with chilli cheese fries to go with that small drink and then wash it down with a couple of milk shakes.......

I think americans should eat healthier......especially our children..... but banning the sale of soft drinks of a certain size is just batsh*t crazy.

[corny]

Yes, I'll have a double quarter pounder with cheese, a large order of fries, a six piece mcnuggets with honey mustard sauce...and I need an extra container of sauce... and a small diet coke please.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Do you not see the effect your population's gluttony is having on your nation? If it were only 10%, 20% or 30% of your population it might be manageable. And it is not the government telling you how much soda you can drink. It is the government setting limits on the size of drink that can be served 'with sugar in it'. Diet drinks there is no limit. If you want to buy two when they no longer sell them by the bucket that is up to you.

So you are suggesting the govt is justified in playing 'nanny' and telling folks what to eat? Tell me how that will make society better? Please explain in detail.

[coolwhip]

If you want to cure the plague of fatness in this country, start by education of our youth in schools. Teach them a proper diet and caloric intake, teach them about proper exercise and show them the results when you dont.

Such as field trips to therapy clinics where folks are being fitted with prosthetic limbs from diabetes. Show them films of triple bypass surgery on 30 year old adults. Teach them not to combat stress with food and that food is not a placebo.

Get your children involved with sports at school and not video games. This keeps their minds occupied and their bodies fit.

Tell them what is in our food, such as steroids, bovine growth hormones, irradiated vegetables and fruits.

Teach them about evil companies such as Monsanto and how our government is bought by such companies.

Get rid of stupid fast food commercials and advertise good eating habits of the basic food groups. They did when I was a kid.

Teach them the truth and you will see change! Show them good habits when they are young, and they will practice them for life...usually.

My daughter is 15, she is on the track team and plays volleyball. My son is 12 and has been playing baseball for 6 years and taking Kung Fu for the last 3 years. When they want to snack, we tell them that they can eat all the fruits and vegetables they want....we police the junk food.

[corny]

I'll have 2 bisquits and sausage gravy, 2 fried eggs over easy and dont bust the yolks please..... You do fry those in the bacon and sausage grease dont you ???

I will also have 2 slices of bacon and 3 pieces of sausage..... that should do it..

My drink...???

Just bring me a small diet soda and black coffee please.

Oh... do you have grits ??? I will have an order of grits also please, with extra butter.

[grizzzlle]

I'll have 2 bisquits and sausage gravy, 2 fried eggs over easy and dont bust the yolks please..... You do fry those in the bacon and sausage grease dont you ???

I will also have 2 slices of bacon and 3 pieces of sausage..... that should do it..

My drink...???

Just bring me a small diet soda and black coffee please.

Oh... do you have grits ??? I will have an order of grits also please, with extra butter.


Mmmmm. Now you got my attention. Dont forget the pancakes with a quart of maple syrup and tub of whipped butter.

[hvacker]

Mose realize that some peoples bad habits result on a burden to the public health services and indirectly to the rest of us. The question is where personal liberty is more important than having our spirit crushed with controls.
Canada seems very different in these terms and might not fully understand that these controls are a personal invasion.
The door, at least in NYC, was opened with a ban on public smoking, then trans fats, now soda pop. It's been predicted that whole towns will ban smoking even in your own home. Some people just want rules.

IMO it's ok to tell a kid not to run with scissors, but not an adult.

[Six]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?

No matter their stupidity the job of regulating what they do and not eat is not the job of the government.

[corny]

I'll have a 12 pack of crunchy tacos please....and a small diet coke.

By the way.... Ive lost 5 pounds over the last 3 weeks... or it might be 6... I was at the doc three weeks ago and six weeks ago....cant remember if they weighed me the last time....3 weeks ago..... so it may have taken 6 weeks.....but thats not bad either.

Make that 12 crunchy tacos and a couple of beef burritto supremes.....and a small diet coke...

[Gcanno]

I believe we should not be told what to drink eat or smoke. Though smoking where people have no option but to breath the smoke is another question. People will gravitate to whatever vices they enjoy.

How about not subsidizing the Corn Industry, or the People who grow animals for consumption.How about barring the use of food aid to be used to buy fast food or food that has no nutritional value.

Yes everyone is a Hypocrite and I really enjoy Burgers and fries. They'll have to pry my Slurpee from my literal cold dead hand. But if the food we eat more closely reflects the true unsubsidized price it costs I for one will eat less of it- enjoy and savor it more when i do eat it and maybe just manage to live just a little bit longer

[printer2]

So you are suggesting the govt is justified in playing 'nanny' and telling folks what to eat? Tell me how that will make society better? Please explain in detail.

Nowhere does it say the government wants to tell you what to eat. What they want to do is limit the size of the sugar delivery mechanism that is helping cripple your country.


Obesity and the form of diabetes linked to it are taking an even worse toll on America’s youths than medical experts had realized. As obesity rates in children have climbed, so has the incidence of Type 2 diabetes, and a new study adds another worry: the disease progresses more rapidly in children than in adults and is harder to treat.

Before the 1990s, this form of diabetes was hardly ever seen in children. It is still uncommon, but experts say any increase in such a serious disease is troubling. There were about 3,600 new cases a year from 2002 to 2005, the latest years for which data is available.

The research is the first large study of Type 2 diabetes in children, “because this didn’t used to exist,” said Dr. Robin Goland, a member of the research team and co-director of the Naomi Berrie Diabetes Center at Columbia University Medical Center in New York. She added, “These are people who are struggling with something that shouldn’t happen in kids who are this young.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/health/research/obesity-and-type-2-diabetes-cases-take-toll-on-children.html


A new study has found that regular consumption of soda and other sugar-sweetened beverages is associated with a clear and consistently greater risk of metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes. According to the Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) researchers, the study provides empirical evidence that intake of sugary beverages should be limited to reduce risk of these conditions.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101027151205.htm


No other department in our hospital has exploded like the dialysis department, we just finished two new wings last year and the machines are humming from dawn to midnight. We also have an outbuilding dedicated to filtering people's blood for 3-4 hours 3 times a week.


Consuming too many soft drinks increases your risk of developing asthma or the severe breathing condition Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disorder (COPD), new research suggests.

Researchers in Australia examined the health and soft drink consumption of 16,907 people aged 16 and over in South Australia during 2008-2010.

One in 10 drank at least half a litre of soft drinks every day, they found.

"The amount of soft drink consumption is associated with an increased chance of asthma and/or COPD. There exists a dose-response relationship, which means the more soft drink one consumes, the higher the chance of having these diseases", the researchers, led by Zumin Shi of Adelaide University, report in the journal Respirology.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/07/asthma-connected-fizzy-drinks-study


Harvard researchers found that men who drank one sugar-sweetened beverage per day had a 20 percent increased risk of heart attack compared to those who eschewed the sugary drinks, according to the study published in the journal Circulation.

And the risk rose with increasing consumption: Two sugary drinks a day was linked to a 42 percent increase in risk, while three was associated with a 69 percent increase.

http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/12/10656108-soda-drinking-men-at-higher-risk-for-heart-attack?lite



I take it you prefer to be manipulated by the big corporations that are exploiting human nature with all these super-sized goodies? You think they have not done studies or used the ones documenting how larger sized portions encourage over-consumption? Oh yeah, but then it is the individual's choice, right? Well the individual is loosing and the food industry is winning.

[printer2]

If you want to cure the plague of fatness in this country, start by education of our youth in schools. Teach them a proper diet and caloric intake, teach them about proper exercise and show them the results when you dont.

Such as field trips to therapy clinics where folks are being fitted with prosthetic limbs from diabetes. Show them films of triple bypass surgery on 30 year old adults. Teach them not to combat stress with food and that food is not a placebo.

Get your children involved with sports at school and not video games. This keeps their minds occupied and their bodies fit.

Tell them what is in our food, such as steroids, bovine growth hormones, irradiated vegetables and fruits.

Teach them about evil companies such as Monsanto and how our government is bought by such companies.

Get rid of stupid fast food commercials and advertise good eating habits of the basic food groups. They did when I was a kid.

Teach them the truth and you will see change! Show them good habits when they are young, and they will practice them for life...usually.

My daughter is 15, she is on the track team and plays volleyball. My son is 12 and has been playing baseball for 6 years and taking Kung Fu for the last 3 years. When they want to snack, we tell them that they can eat all the fruits and vegetables they want....we police the junk food.

If I were to pick one post to share with people that you have written over the years this would be it.

[printer2]

No matter their stupidity the job of regulating what they do and not eat is not the job of the government.

Why should a government regulate that cars should have seat belts?


If a person wants to buy two cups of what was once a large drink when I was a kid then they have that right, the government is not infringing on it. The government is talking about regulating the size of the cup. Reread coolwhip's above post. Or better yet take the tour he prescribes. I take the tour every day and see precisely what he has wrote. And you are saying this is a good thing?

Who is to change the way society is going? The soft drink industry?

[Six]

There it is. Those evil corporations. It exposes your ideology that generally supports a nanny state government.

People and liberals who think this way are so short sighted. As if the government has a shred of credibillity left after blowing through 5 trillion in 3 years just to perpetuate mediocrity.

That they are the standard by which all lowley citicenz should adhere to.

Bottom line it's the slippery slope argumemt.

And saying obese people "cripple America" is just hyperbolic rhetoric and a weak attempt at reinforcing your argument.

It detracts from a honest debate. No amount of money spent, tax's payed, laws enforced will have an effect on obesity.
How much money have we spent on fighting illegal drugs ?

It's their attempt (gov't) to get the ball rolling so they can slowly institute reforms and laws that will slowly become more and more draconian.

All the interest of helping people right ? Or helping children or saving lives. I wish people were smarter when it comes ti stuff like this.

Analyze it historically and draw parallels to past events with out going over board.

What's the old idiom? There is nothing new under the sun ?

That statement is so true.

[grizzzlle]

I cant wait to see the narcotics-sugary drinks team photos of their big profile bust. I can see it right now a mini mart selling jubo gulps being raided while the drug dealers look on.

[printer2]

There it is. Those evil corporations. It exposes your ideology that generally supports a nanny state government.

People and liberals who think this way are so short sighted. As if the government has a shred of credibillity left after blowing through 5 trillion in 3 years just to perpetuate mediocrity.

That they are the standard by which all lowley citicenz should adhere to.

Bottom line it's the slippery slope argumemt.

And saying obese people "cripple America" is just hyperbolic rhetoric and a weak attempt at reinforcing your argument.

It detracts from a honest debate. No amount of money spent, tax's payed, laws enforced will have an effect on obesity.
How much money have we spent on fighting illegal drugs ?

It's their attempt (gov't) to get the ball rolling so they can slowly institute reforms and laws that will slowly become more and more draconian.

All the interest of helping people right ? Or helping children or saving lives. I wish people were smarter when it comes ti stuff like this.

Analyze it historically and draw parallels to past events with out going over board.

What's the old idiom? There is nothing new under the sun ?

That statement is so true.

Just wait 10-15 years. When the baby boomers hit retirement age and all these health problems start taxing the health industry. Hyperbolic rhetoric? Stick your head in the sand. Go look up how many percent of your GDP goes to health care and look at the projections for this time frame.

And how does the silly fight on the war on drugs relate to limiting the cup size of drinks? Write a regulation and have the pop industry comply or they get fined. Not like it will cost a lot of money like the phony war.

And I really do not care about your children. It is the cost of the health problems which will eat at the competitiveness of your nation that worries me. You are our best customer. You start tying up your money in just keeping your population alive and less of those dollars are going to flow north to us.

[corny]

I'll have a moster thickburger with chili on it....and a large order of chili cheese fries....a medium shake, chocolate......and a small diet coke please.

I use to work with a guy named Fred... he weighed about 350...... sometimes when he would go to lunch with us at a restaurant he would eat the lunch he packed on the way to wherever we were going.

He would woof down a couple of sandwiches and some chips......on the way to lunch.

He only worked for the company because our boss felt pity on him. Good guy..... but he was useless for anything but "holding" something.

He was a pig though..... I wouldnt get between him and a food item....he would trample you to death.

[Williamsma]

As I was standing in line at the grocery store over the weekend, all the checkstands were busy. I realized it was the 1st of the month and welfare accounts are full. I look around at these people with their Oregon trails card, WIC, or what ever they use to spend taxpayer funds on groceries. More than half are well beyond the BMI index and some of them are in the range of "damn". The other group of people, the ones who are paying with their own money, are thinner than their counterparts. When looking at grocery carts for comparison, I see one with lazy food like frozen pizza, tv dinners, ice cream and other items that would put the witch that was fattening up Hansel and Grettal to shame. The other carts I saw more produce, fresh meat, and other items to prepare meals. I could draw a conclusion base on what I saw, but they don't sell big gulps here.

[hvacker]

Another conclusion that could be drawn is that some people just can't cook. Advice: never stop at a restaurant that has a sign Home Cooking. It will probably suck.
Another is no time to cook. Kids etc.
Another, no interest.
There are several restaurants here that are packed out. Not because of the good food but because of the enormous portions.
Food here is cheap, abundant, and usually fried. When I went to school (long ago) few kids were overweight. Also kids didn't run in circles acting nuts. We ate a lot of junk and didn't give it much thought. Not all that different from what many kids eat today. Probably less of it. But we did get off are a$$es. Played until it was too dark. Only stopped for I Love Lucy and Dragnet.
Computers are taking their toll.

[corny]

Yep, the internet is ruining our society. turning people into ghouls who live their lives out on the net.

[Hugh B]

Well with people being too stupid in their eating habits to the point of where half if not more of the population is obese who is going to act as the adult?

So, you must think the people are pretty much children and government needs to be their mama. That is socialism ya know!

[printer2]

So, you must think the people are pretty much children and government needs to be their mama. That is socialism ya know!

You get the government that you deserve.

[coolwhip]

You get the government that you deserve.

Are you quoting Hunter Thompson? one of my favorite authors you know.

In a Democracy, you get the government you deserve.

I thought this was a Republic.

[Hugh B]

Are you quoting Hunter Thompson? one of my favorite authors you know.

In a Democracy, you get the government you deserve.

I thought this was a Republic.

Yup, we have a constitution that serves to place limits on the power of government thru the system of checks and balances (three opposing-balancing-checking groups) as well as a Bill Of Rights.

The problem now is that all three branches are ignoring our constitution and going their own way with the media acting as if they are a forth branch of government spinning the truth or refusing to cover the truth.

[printer2]

Are you quoting Hunter Thompson? one of my favorite authors you know.

In a Democracy, you get the government you deserve.

I thought this was a Republic.

Don't recall who said it. Seems to hold true for whatever political system people adopt.

[printer2]

Yup, we have a constitution that serves to place limits on the power of government thru the system of checks and balances (three opposing-balancing-checking groups) as well as a Bill Of Rights.

The problem now is that all three branches are ignoring our constitution and going their own way with the media acting as if they are a forth branch of government spinning the truth or refusing to cover the truth.

All that sugar makes a compliant people.

[ga-hvac-tech]

All that sugar makes a compliant people.

I do agree with you on this... When folks have it too easy... they tend to let govt get away with too much. Let times get tough... and they start to watch govt again.

Just wish folks would have 'eternal vigilance' watching govt... we would not have near the mess we have today.

[printer2]

I do agree with you on this... When folks have it too easy... they tend to let govt get away with too much. Let times get tough... and they start to watch govt again.

Just wish folks would have 'eternal vigilance' watching govt... we would not have near the mess we have today.

But there is a flip side. If the people were to take more responsibility for themselves then you would not have government types want to do it for them. As much as it may seem the government wants to run our lives the people making the rules really are just responding to conditions that they see unfolding. If 1/3 of the population did not look physically obese and we did not have the health effects to go with it then drink size would not be an issue.

I wish people would look after themselves. If they did then we would not need government to do it for them.

[glennac]

But there is a flip side. If the people were to take more responsibility for themselves then you would not have government types want to do it for them. As much as it may seem the government wants to run our lives the people making the rules really are just responding to conditions that they see unfolding. If 1/3 of the population did not look physically obese and we did not have the health effects to go with it then drink size would not be an issue.

I wish people would look after themselves. If they did then we would not need government to do it for them.

Your missing the big point here printer. What is government for anyhow? Most patriots believe it should only protect our rights and freedom. Like a military and justice system to punish criminals and not to control our rights in anyway. You are indeed a liberal for sure. Thank you, thank you very much

[printer2]

Your missing the big point here printer. What is government for anyhow? Most patriots believe it should only protect our rights and freedom. Like a military and justice system to punish criminals and not to control our rights in anyway. You are indeed a liberal for sure. Thank you, thank you very much

Not missing the point. The government is there to look after the good of the country. If people did not bang into each other with their cars there would be no need for seat belts. It took government to get car manufacturers to do the right thing and put them in all cars. The soft drink thing strikes me the same way. The companies offering the larger sizes are putting people at risk knowing quite well that if they offer a bigger bucket for a few extra cents that the public will buy it and finish the whole thing. And at 10 teaspoons of sugar to a 12 oz can of coke, with the big cups being offered being 42 oz. That is 35 teaspoons of sugar. Who in their right mind would offer someone 35 teaspoons of sugar to consume in, say an hour, other than soft drink manufacturers and restaurants trying to make a buck?

[allan38]

The US federal government's purpose is not to look after the good of the people.
It's purpose is to do a few essential tasks that have been delegated to it by the people.

All other powers were reserved by the states or by the people.

I don't have a problem with Bloomberg doing what he did. He's a mayor, it's a local law, if the locals don't like it they can throw him out.

On a personal level, I don't drink sugar drinks. I've long understood the role of sugar and other high glycemic index foods in obesity, diabetes and other imbalanced nutrition related health issues.

I don't believe in a nanny state. As a general principle, I think what he did intrudes on personal choice and as a knee jerk reaction think it's unreasonable and entirely uncalled for.

Upon further reflection, I think his policy is entirely reasonable. He's not banning the sale of a product, only limiting container size.

We'll see if it has a positive effect in a few months... or until they throw him out.
That's what state and local government are for. We'll see how the law fits and if it has the desired consequences. I suspect it may not work, we humans are clever about finding our way around restrictions

[barbar]

Only one question, for those on the right.

Are you all for total legalization of use and supply of all drugs?

yes or no and why?

It may look to be off subject, but is this not, the same issue.

[hvacker]

Are you quoting Hunter Thompson? one of my favorite authors you know.

In a Democracy, you get the government you deserve.

I thought this was a Republic.


I'll bet you like Thompson's gun collection Que' No?!
We are actually a Democratic/Republic. We elect by popular choice and the winners rule by proxy.
I'm not sure if Thompson was critical of popular elections or what follows in DC.

[hvacker]

But there is a flip side. If the people were to take more responsibility for themselves then you would not have government types want to do it for them. As much as it may seem the government wants to run our lives the people making the rules really are just responding to conditions that they see unfolding. If 1/3 of the population did not look physically obese and we did not have the health effects to go with it then drink size would not be an issue.

I wish people would look after themselves. If they did then we would not need government to do it for them.

It's interesting being next to Canada that USA citizens are so different. Many USA Americans think Canada is a more rational and civilized country and the USA is the wild west. Nether civilized or rational.
The idea of, lets work together, seems to have different responses in the two countries. The US has changed since WW2. More fear based and less cooperative.
People here often take the path of least resistance. It's easier to be fat that work to change.
It's easier to destroy other nations than find a solution.
The world's not suposed to work, is it?

[AStudent]

The problem that many of you are failing to see is that people refuse to take care of themselves in a responsible manner....and when they get sick they get treatment then skip the payment or go bankrupt trying to pay the bill.

So take your pick...spending billions if not trillions of government dollars keeping people alive and healthy....or having to buy two cokes instead of one big one.

[ga-hvac-tech]

But there is a flip side. If the people were to take more responsibility for themselves then you would not have government types want to do it for them. As much as it may seem the government wants to run our lives the people making the rules really are just responding to conditions that they see unfolding. If 1/3 of the population did not look physically obese and we did not have the health effects to go with it then drink size would not be an issue.

I wish people would look after themselves. If they did then we would not need government to do it for them.


Your missing the big point here printer. What is government for anyhow? Most patriots believe it should only protect our rights and freedom. Like a military and justice system to punish criminals and not to control our rights in anyway. You are indeed a liberal for sure. Thank you, thank you very much

Two points:

1) If someone wants to eat/drink themselves into obesity... it is their right to do so... and THEY take responsibility for it. They get to pay higher insurance rates (IF someone will insure them, which IMO is totally fair). Nothing like responsibility to make someone take care of themselves.

2) Glenn and a few others hit the nail square: The responsibility of govt is to guarantee our rights and freedoms... NOT to control out lives. The latte is our responsibility... and anyone who does not do take that responsibility wisely... well they NEED to SUFFER the consequences of their bad decisions... it is called learning by experience... which is IMO the way life works.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Only one question, for those on the right.

Are you all for total legalization of use and supply of all drugs?

yes or no and why?

It may look to be off subject, but is this not, the same issue.

I would favor totally dis-mantling the 'war on drugs'... as I think it is govt hypocrisy at its finest.

Study prohibition in our US history... the example is clear to me.

And BTW: Prescription drugs are a govt sanctioned monopoly also... they should be 'over the counter' also.

[printer2]

Two points:

1) If someone wants to eat/drink themselves into obesity... it is their right to do so... and THEY take responsibility for it. They get to pay higher insurance rates (IF someone will insure them, which IMO is totally fair). Nothing like responsibility to make someone take care of themselves.

2) Glenn and a few others hit the nail square: The responsibility of govt is to guarantee our rights and freedoms... NOT to control out lives. The latte is our responsibility... and anyone who does not do take that responsibility wisely... well they NEED to SUFFER the consequences of their bad decisions... it is called learning by experience... which is IMO the way life works.

If it were a small portion of your population that eats/drinks themselves into obesity I doubt it would be much of an issue. So tell me, how many percent of Americans do you think are obese?

[ga-hvac-tech]

If it were a small portion of your population that eats/drinks themselves into obesity I doubt it would be much of an issue. So tell me, how many percent of Americans do you think are obese?

Honestly Printer, I really do not care. It is not my responsibility to take care of someone that will not take care of themselves... and it is NOT the govt's responsibility to do so either.

What we need to do is get away from the nanny state mentality and make folks pay the consequences for their bad decisions. You would be amazed at how fast folks will start taking responsibility when they KNOW they will NOT get a handout.

Having said all this; there IS a place for charity... however govt is definitely NOT that place. IMO it needs to be handled on a LOCAL basis, by private interests. And while I am it... IMO there should NOT be a career of managing charities... it should be a volunteer thingy. Folks receive more from the physical act of volunteering than they do from the act of giving $$$.

[Tool-Slinger]

If it were a small portion of your population that eats/drinks themselves into obesity I doubt it would be much of an issue. So tell me, how many percent of Americans do you think are obese?
Not to interrupt,.. but let me throw this in for consideration:

Should we limit cigarettes to smaller sizes? Should we limit beer cans to 6 ounces? Should we limit butter sales to 1 stick packages? Should we limit bacon packages to 4 slices? Should we limit steak cuts to 8 ounce portions?

I am just trying to point out the foolishness of limiting sizes. I am not advocating drinking a gallon of coke a day, it is just a foolish waste of time and effort AND MONEY by any government to try to regulate such stuff. I am not saying it is theoretically wrong in a utopian wonder-world liberal heaven, but just stupid in practical application here and now. Today.

They cannot control crack-cocain, meth, daily murders, potholes,.... I am just saying that it is foolish in allocation of resources, and practical application.

[printer2]

Honestly Printer, I really do not care. It is not my responsibility to take care of someone that will not take care of themselves... and it is NOT the govt's responsibility to do so either.

What we need to do is get away from the nanny state mentality and make folks pay the consequences for their bad decisions. You would be amazed at how fast folks will start taking responsibility when they KNOW they will NOT get a handout.

Having said all this; there IS a place for charity... however govt is definitely NOT that place. IMO it needs to be handled on a LOCAL basis, by private interests. And while I am it... IMO there should NOT be a career of managing charities... it should be a volunteer thingy. Folks receive more from the physical act of volunteering than they do from the act of giving $$$.

Who is saying anything about a handout or charity? I thought this was about regulating the size of sugar loaded soft drinks.

Does the government regulate seat belts in a car? Damn nanny government sticking its nose in the car buying public's business all these years. Not like the car companies fought against making them mandatory.


Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 33.9% (2007-2008)
Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight (and not obese): 34.4% (2007-2008)

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm

Since the government has not been regulating the size of drink cups (which the retail and soft drink industry have been increasing constantly so that bigger seems normal) along with the other lifestyle choices being made truly shows that 68% of the population will not take care of themselves. If you think this will not cost you in the long term or put a financial strain on your country you have your head in the sand.

[printer2]

Not to interrupt,.. but let me throw this in for consideration:

Should we limit cigarettes to smaller sizes? Should we limit beer cans to 6 ounces? Should we limit butter sales to 1 stick packages? Should we limit bacon packages to 4 slices? Should we limit steak cuts to 8 ounce portions?

I am just trying to point out the foolishness of limiting sizes. I am not advocating drinking a gallon of coke a day, it is just a foolish waste of time and effort AND MONEY by any government to try to regulate such stuff. I am not saying it is theoretically wrong in a utopian wonder-world liberal heaven, but just stupid in practical application here and now. Today.

They cannot control crack-cocain, meth, daily murders, potholes,.... I am just saying that it is foolish in allocation of resources, and practical application.

But buying a bucket of pop is not like buying a package of bacon. You do not necessarily finish the bacon off in one sitting, might even share it with someone. Don't know too many people that pass around the huge cups of pop they get in the movie theater. It is not foolish reducing the sizes. It is well proven that if you put bigger size helpings of food in front of people that they are going to finish it when the same person would be satisfied with the next size smaller if that was all that was offered (which is still bigger than the sizes offered 20 years ago).

[newoldtech]

So I just came out of a 130 degree attic and I cant get as big a drink as I want? Just because someone else is obese? What am I, four years old?
F that! And in a similar vein, the cops can give me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Who am I potentially hurting but myself? I dont need another mother. Whats next, If the cops find me with more than 30ozs. of pop will I spend the night in a fat cell?

[Tool-Slinger]

But buying a bucket of pop is not like buying a package of bacon. You do not necessarily finish the bacon off in one sitting, might even share it with someone. Don't know too many people that pass around the huge cups of pop they get in the movie theater. It is not foolish reducing the sizes. It is well proven that if you put bigger size helpings of food in front of people that they are going to finish it when the same person would be satisfied with the next size smaller if that was all that was offered (which is still bigger than the sizes offered 20 years ago).
Printer, I go to Waffle house here. I order a double order of bacon, a double order of sausage, 3 eggs over easy. And toast. I weigh 145# soaking wet.

What is theoretically worse? 6 slices of bacon, 4 sausages, 3 eggs, and toast slathered with extra butter...... or a big gulp?

Just answer that. What is worse? Then tell and explain to my Ethiopian body-frame why you need to tell me how much I am allowed to eat by your biased and prejudiced standards of 'what is safe for me'.

There.

Want to adjust my menu with your invasive liberal agenda? I just want you to leave me alone. I am a live and let live kinda guy.

I find it stunning that liberals come on here and cry about conservatives trying to regulate behavior. Sheesh! Soda-pop? Really? LOL!

[printer2]

So I just came out of a 130 degree attic and I cant get as big a drink as I want? Just because someone else is obese? What am I, four years old?
F that! And in a similar vein, the cops can give me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Who am I potentially hurting but myself? I dont need another mother. Whats next, If the cops find me with more than 30ozs. of pop will I spend the night in a fat cell?

No you will not be in jail for having a 30 oz pop. You will not be able to buy one in a cup. But if you decided to buy one bottled you can drink to your heart's content.

Do you need a mother? I don't know. Are you one of the 68% of Americans that are overweight? Oh, and who might you be hurting by not wearing your seat belt? Your family?

[Tool-Slinger]

No you will not be in jail for having a 30 oz pop. You will not be able to buy one in a cup. But if you decided to buy one bottled you can drink to your heart's content.

Do you need a mother? I don't know. Are you one of the 68% of Americans that are overweight? Oh, and who might you be hurting by not wearing your seat belt? Your family?
Dear God Printer. The concept of FREEDOM is not based upon what is "good for the community", it has a little more to do with 'individual rights' and 'individual freedom of choice'. We are not an ant colony!

[newoldtech]

No you will not be in jail for having a 30 oz pop. You will not be able to buy one in a cup. But if you decided to buy one bottled you can drink to your heart's content.

Do you need a mother? I don't know. Are you one of the 68% of Americans that are overweight? Oh, and who might you be hurting by not wearing your seat belt? Your family?

Maybe we should start arresting people if they dont exercise three times a week? Or how about no ice cream if your over a certain weight? I know thats not what I want our government involved in. People should be able to make their own decisions when it doesn't effect anyone else but themselves. And yes that includes seatbelts too. The government should not be so involved in personal behavior. But it is convenient for them to give tickets like we're criminals and make money for not wearing a seatbelt like we're some sort of danger to society. I prefer to be able to think for myself.

[AStudent]

You guys really don't get it do you?

YES it is terrible that the government restricts our freedoms....YES they should not have to do that....but when it costs as much as it is costing us to keep people alive because of their unhealthy habits then something needs to be done.

You should be thanking the government, while they take away your big sippy cups they are saving you...yes YOU and me billions if not trillions of our tax dollars.

Some of you say let people live and die....that's a great theory until it's you...or your wife...or dad...mom..uncle..aunt..son...daughter...and the insurance company drops them cause they cost too much. Not to mention the vast majority of America is unhealthy...if we all die then who is left to keep the country going?

You scream like a teenager...just let me live free and do whatever I want...but when you have to file bankruptcy because your medical bills cost too much, remember that maybe buying a smaller coke, or carrying a 12 pack in the cooler...or drinking WATER...wasn't such a bad alternative after all.

All of this is relevant to healthcare....insurance companies are notorious for being there when it's time to collect your monthly payment...but when you get in a bind they tend to run...leaving you to file bankruptcy...this is why the government is stepping in there...don't believe me? Look it up

[barbar]

Maybe we should start arresting people if they dont exercise three times a week? Or how about no ice cream if your over a certain weight? I know thats not what I want our government involved in. People should be able to make their own decisions when it doesn't effect anyone else but themselves. And yes that includes seatbelts too. The government should not be so involved in personal behavior. But it is convenient for them to give tickets like we're criminals and make money for not wearing a seatbelt like we're some sort of danger to society. I prefer to be able to think for myself.

I agree, but in this case, decisions are being influenced, by marketing methods, and there are many who are unable to make a decision (children).
Plus being obese does effect others, OK the medical issue and associated costs, are well documented, but lets look at productivity, this falls driving up costs, reduces margins or increases retail prices, driving employment off shore. Plus basic physics determines the greater mass the more energy required to move it. My seem a small amount, but across the population, how much more energy has to imported, effecting the balance of payments.
Obesity is not just a personal issue, it is a social issue, therefore our Representatives (govt), should act on behalf of the people. In the same way Tobacco has its limitations. With Tax increases and education, smoking is reducing.

[newoldtech]

I agree, but in this case, decisions are being influenced, by marketing methods, and there are many who are unable to make a decision (children).
Plus being obese does effect others, OK the medical issue and associated costs, are well documented, but lets look at productivity, this falls driving up costs, reduces margins or increases retail prices, driving employment off shore. Plus basic physics determines the greater mass the more energy required to move it. My seem a small amount, but across the population, how much more energy has to imported, effecting the balance of payments.
Obesity is not just a personal issue, it is a social issue, therefore our Representatives (govt), should act on behalf of the people. In the same way Tobacco has its limitations. With Tax increases and education, smoking is reducing.

I will concede that what the government is doing could be seen as in the best interest of the people en masse. But individual freedom is very imprortannt to many Americans and it sets bad precedents. Its dangerous because where does it end? If you give them an inch who knows what they will tell you what you cant do next? Playing football or skiing is dangerous maybe we should outlaw that too? I dont want anyone telling me, a consenting adult how much I can drink, any more than I want anyone telling me what is allowed or not allowed in the bedroom etc. I dont consider myself an over the top freedom guy but how much I can drink, come on. If you dont draw a line, they could walk all over you and treat us like we're babies or worse. I dont like it at all.

[ga-hvac-tech]

You guys really don't get it do you?

YES it is terrible that the government restricts our freedoms....YES they should not have to do that....but when it costs as much as it is costing us to keep people alive because of their unhealthy habits then something needs to be done.

You should be thanking the government, while they take away your big sippy cups they are saving you...yes YOU and me billions if not trillions of our tax dollars.

Some of you say let people live and die....that's a great theory until it's you...or your wife...or dad...mom..uncle..aunt..son...daughter...and the insurance company drops them cause they cost too much. Not to mention the vast majority of America is unhealthy...if we all die then who is left to keep the country going?

You scream like a teenager...just let me live free and do whatever I want...but when you have to file bankruptcy because your medical bills cost too much, remember that maybe buying a smaller coke, or carrying a 12 pack in the cooler...or drinking WATER...wasn't such a bad alternative after all.

All of this is relevant to healthcare....insurance companies are notorious for being there when it's time to collect your monthly payment...but when you get in a bind they tend to run...leaving you to file bankruptcy...this is why the government is stepping in there...don't believe me? Look it up

Winston Churchill: "If you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart... however: If you do not grow to be conservative, you have no brains".

Repeat after me student: "It is NOT the govt's job to regulate lives... it is the govt's job to guarantee individual freedoms and rights." What people do with those rights is not the govt's responsibility.

The problem lies in folks thinking someone has to 'fix' these issues... The answer is to let folks who make bad choices suffer the consequences of those choices. You would be amazed at how FAST folks make good choices when they have to suffer the results of bad choices.

IMO the problem is we do not teach the Constitution (and the other founding documents) as they were written and intended. If we did teach them in schools two things would happen:

1) Folks would understand these things, and
2) We would not have such a worthless govt wasting our tax $$$'s.

[printer2]

Dear God Printer. The concept of FREEDOM is not based upon what is "good for the community", it has a little more to do with 'individual rights' and 'individual freedom of choice'. We are not an ant colony!

What is a country and it's countrymen ? A community? Where is there a lack of freedom of choice? Buy two drinks if you need the sugar rush. But you do realize the soft drink and food retailers manipulate you to eat more so they can make more profit, that is the reason for the jumbo sizes. They know human nature and are playing with it, playing with your freedom of choice. Is it good for your country?

[printer2]

Maybe we should start arresting people if they dont exercise three times a week? Or how about no ice cream if your over a certain weight? I know thats not what I want our government involved in. People should be able to make their own decisions when it doesn't effect anyone else but themselves. And yes that includes seatbelts too. The government should not be so involved in personal behavior. But it is convenient for them to give tickets like we're criminals and make money for not wearing a seatbelt like we're some sort of danger to society. I prefer to be able to think for myself.

But it does effect everyone else. All the health effects whether due to food, exercise, or seat belt choices effect all the others that pay for insurance or taxes since you have medicare for those over 65 (I think, feeling foggy today and do not feel like looking it up).

[printer2]

Printer, I go to Waffle house here. I order a double order of bacon, a double order of sausage, 3 eggs over easy. And toast. I weigh 145# soaking wet.

What is theoretically worse? 6 slices of bacon, 4 sausages, 3 eggs, and toast slathered with extra butter...... or a big gulp?

Just answer that. What is worse? Then tell and explain to my Ethiopian body-frame why you need to tell me how much I am allowed to eat by your biased and prejudiced standards of 'what is safe for me'.

There.

Want to adjust my menu with your invasive liberal agenda? I just want you to leave me alone. I am a live and let live kinda guy.

I find it stunning that liberals come on here and cry about conservatives trying to regulate behavior. Sheesh! Soda-pop? Really? LOL!

So you tell me, where do you start? What is your solution to 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being considered obese? The problem is that there are so few of you 145# soaking wet bacon, sausages, eggs, and toast slathered with extra butter eating Americans.

[printer2]

I will concede that what the government is doing could be seen as in the best interest of the people en masse. But individual freedom is very imprortannt to many Americans and it sets bad precedents. Its dangerous because where does it end? If you give them an inch who knows what they will tell you what you cant do next? Playing football or skiing is dangerous maybe we should outlaw that too? I dont want anyone telling me, a consenting adult how much I can drink, any more than I want anyone telling me what is allowed or not allowed in the bedroom etc. I dont consider myself an over the top freedom guy but how much I can drink, come on. If you dont draw a line, they could walk all over you and treat us like we're babies or worse. I dont like it at all.

Of course it is a question of balance. And the public will tell the government how far is too much, or do you guys not have control over your politicians? There is so much talk from you guys about freedoms but so little about responsibilities. Do you not realize being a citizen of a country involves both? You are talking like a bunch of liberals (by your definitions), you want to have it all (all 32 ounces) and none of the responsibilities. You would think liberals being liberals that they would want free soft drinks or at least buckets of pop subsidized by the government.

[AStudent]

Winston Churchill: "If you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart... however: If you do not grow to be conservative, you have no brains".

Repeat after me student: "It is NOT the govt's job to regulate lives... it is the govt's job to guarantee individual freedoms and rights." What people do with those rights is not the govt's responsibility.

The problem lies in folks thinking someone has to 'fix' these issues... The answer is to let folks who make bad choices suffer the consequences of those choices. You would be amazed at how FAST folks make good choices when they have to suffer the results of bad choices.

IMO the problem is we do not teach the Constitution (and the other founding documents) as they were written and intended. If we did teach them in schools two things would happen:

1) Folks would understand these things, and
2) We would not have such a worthless govt wasting our tax $$$'s.

You are wrong....people will not and do not make good choices FAST when they have to suffer the consequences...do you realize how many people we have dying, fat, can't even walk to the toilet...but they won't stop eating big macs or drinking big sippy cups.

We Americans are some of the most hard headed fools on this planet, and being fat will not change our way of thinking...we will just get fatter....unless there's a diet pill we can take so that we don't have to exercise.

I will repeat after you....It's NOT the govt's job to regulate lives....unless you count the nation being fat under the General Welfare clause of the constitution.

For some reason I still don't believe that if your loved one was sick with no insurance that you would just let them suffer and die a slow death.

[Tool-Slinger]

So you tell me, where do you start? What is your solution to 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being considered obese? The problem is that there are so few of you 145# soaking wet bacon, sausages, eggs, and toast slathered with extra butter eating Americans.
I would start by discriminating against fat people.

Not to insult anyone! Some folks can no more help being heavy than I can help being thin. Just born that way.

I would start with government workers, they have great health insurance on the public dime. If they are obese, loose it in 6 months or "you're fired".

[corny]

We had a frozen pizza for supper tonight.... just for those who are against it.

It was good too.

[ga-hvac-tech]

You are wrong....people will not and do not make good choices FAST when they have to suffer the consequences...do you realize how many people we have dying, fat, can't even walk to the toilet...but they won't stop eating big macs or drinking big sippy cups.

We Americans are some of the most hard headed fools on this planet, and being fat will not change our way of thinking...we will just get fatter....unless there's a diet pill we can take so that we don't have to exercise.

I will repeat after you....It's NOT the govt's job to regulate lives....unless you count the nation being fat under the General Welfare clause of the constitution.

For some reason I still don't believe that if your loved one was sick with no insurance that you would just let them suffer and die a slow death.

No sir, I think YOU are wrong. Example: Cut off ALL the financial support of someone living on the dole, and look how fast they get a job. I have literally witnessed this repeatedly. If you do not understand the basic instinct of survival... well perhaps you have never had to use it? Maybe life has been so easy (read that fixed at other's expense), you have never had to sweat and struggle?

It is not the educated high minded folks that succeed... it is the hard workers. Get used to this, because WHEN the GOP and Mitt take over govt in January, you will loose all that tax-payer subsidized support... and will have to work for a living like the rest of us.

I notice you did not respond to the quote by Winston Churchill... Ever think Mr Churchill might be smarter than you are? Like maybe the guy that ran WW2 might have a little more understanding of human nature than a student who is mostly dreaming of what 'should be'... rather than experienced at what IS?

To answer you quotes:
First; statistics I have read suggest obesity is on the way DOWN. Might want to keep on top of the latest trend there guy.
Next: You have still not addressed why it is my problem if someone else is irresponsible.
Next: The general welfare clause was NOT written to mean a nanny govt; it was written by folks who believed the ONLY job of govt was to protect given rights and freedoms... NOT run folks lives.
Next: My Dad IS dieing a slow death... he lives with me. Might want to be sure you are on firm ground before you open your mouth and shoot from the hip... Remember that saying: Better to be quiet and let folks wonder about your intelligence... rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt?
BTW: There is a HUGE difference between a family member or a close friend needing help... vs the govt managing folks lives by extorting tax $$$ from one group to buy votes from another group.

Now: I am willing to wager a $1 bill (a Washington), that if you google long enough, you will find someone in the food service industry that is getting a windfall from this proposed law. You see, govt is corrupt. They 'sell' folks on some idea which has good feelings attached to it... when in reality it is crony politics to buy votes. If you do not realize EVERY polecat does this regularly, you are as niave as a new-born kitten when it comes to politics.

[printer2]

No sir, I think YOU are wrong. Example: Cut off ALL the financial support of someone living on the dole, and look how fast they get a job. I have literally witnessed this repeatedly. If you do not understand the basic instinct of survival... well perhaps you have never had to use it? Maybe life has been so easy (read that fixed at other's expense), you have never had to sweat and struggle?

It is not the educated high minded folks that succeed... it is the hard workers. Get used to this, because WHEN the GOP and Mitt take over govt in January, you will loose all that tax-payer subsidized support... and will have to work for a living like the rest of us.

I notice you did not respond to the quote by Winston Churchill... Ever think Mr Churchill might be smarter than you are? Like maybe the guy that ran WW2 might have a little more understanding of human nature than a student who is mostly dreaming of what 'should be'... rather than experienced at what IS?

To answer you quotes:
First; statistics I have read suggest obesity is on the way DOWN. Might want to keep on top of the latest trend there guy.
Next: You have still not addressed why it is my problem if someone else is irresponsible.
Next: The general welfare clause was NOT written to mean a nanny govt; it was written by folks who believed the ONLY job of govt was to protect given rights and freedoms... NOT run folks lives.
Next: My Dad IS dieing a slow death... he lives with me. Might want to be sure you are on firm ground before you open your mouth and shoot from the hip... Remember that saying: Better to be quiet and let folks wonder about your intelligence... rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt?
BTW: There is a HUGE difference between a family member or a close friend needing help... vs the govt managing folks lives by extorting tax $$$ from one group to buy votes from another group.

Now: I am willing to wager a $1 bill (a Washington), that if you google long enough, you will find someone in the food service industry that is getting a windfall from this proposed law. You see, govt is corrupt. They 'sell' folks on some idea which has good feelings attached to it... when in reality it is crony politics to buy votes. If you do not realize EVERY polecat does this regularly, you are as niave as a new-born kitten when it comes to politics.

What statistics have you read to suggest obesity is declining? Don't know how credible these guys are but it is a neat slide show.

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

It is not your problem if you have a bunch of people that can not get through doors anymore, but it is the governments. They have a vested interest in keeping healthy productive taxpayers around.

How will anyone make an extra buck from smaller drink sizes? Maybe by selling more cups but since the soft drink and restaurants are against it then I guess it is the cup manufacturers. Mind you, if it were just a case of government being corrupt you would think the soft drink manufacturers would have deep enough pockets to win this one, which they probably will.


So since we are not covering any new ground I will add one final thought and bow out. So in a nutshell, liberals want a healthy population while conservatives (not really sure what word to use there, use the term that you like) are happy to have a country where 2/3rds of the population is fat or obese.

[AStudent]

No sir, I think YOU are wrong. Example: Cut off ALL the financial support of someone living on the dole, and look how fast they get a job. I have literally witnessed this repeatedly. If you do not understand the basic instinct of survival... well perhaps you have never had to use it? Maybe life has been so easy (read that fixed at other's expense), you have never had to sweat and struggle?

It is not the educated high minded folks that succeed... it is the hard workers. Get used to this, because WHEN the GOP and Mitt take over govt in January, you will loose all that tax-payer subsidized support... and will have to work for a living like the rest of us.

I notice you did not respond to the quote by Winston Churchill... Ever think Mr Churchill might be smarter than you are? Like maybe the guy that ran WW2 might have a little more understanding of human nature than a student who is mostly dreaming of what 'should be'... rather than experienced at what IS?

To answer you quotes:
First; statistics I have read suggest obesity is on the way DOWN. Might want to keep on top of the latest trend there guy.
Next: You have still not addressed why it is my problem if someone else is irresponsible.
Next: The general welfare clause was NOT written to mean a nanny govt; it was written by folks who believed the ONLY job of govt was to protect given rights and freedoms... NOT run folks lives.
Next: My Dad IS dieing a slow death... he lives with me. Might want to be sure you are on firm ground before you open your mouth and shoot from the hip... Remember that saying: Better to be quiet and let folks wonder about your intelligence... rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt?
BTW: There is a HUGE difference between a family member or a close friend needing help... vs the govt managing folks lives by extorting tax $$$ from one group to buy votes from another group.

Now: I am willing to wager a $1 bill (a Washington), that if you google long enough, you will find someone in the food service industry that is getting a windfall from this proposed law. You see, govt is corrupt. They 'sell' folks on some idea which has good feelings attached to it... when in reality it is crony politics to buy votes. If you do not realize EVERY polecat does this regularly, you are as niave as a new-born kitten when it comes to politics.

This is not just about the masses getting a job...which is going to be hell anyway with the requirements these days. This is about healthcare, and just like corrupt government, it's also about corrupt insurance companies.

I DID address why it is your concern if other people are irresponsible...it costs you and me...taxpayers...money.

You can live your life doing all the right things...working a job...paying for insurance...and then one day you get sick and the insurance company drops you, leaving you to pay the bill...you can't do it so you have to file bankruptcy.

The number of medical related bankruptcies is well over 50% of all bankruptcies in America and the majority of those people had medical insurance before they got sick.

The General Welfare clause......remember this line?

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

When bankruptcies become a huge issue in America due to medical bills the government does have the power and the right to do something about it. You might also look up the definition of the words General...and Welfare.

You assume that I'm just a guy who sits on his butt collecting government checks....that is not at all the case.

[ga-hvac-tech]

What statistics have you read to suggest obesity is declining? Don't know how credible these guys are but it is a neat slide show.

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

It is not your problem if you have a bunch of people that can not get through doors anymore, but it is the governments. They have a vested interest in keeping healthy productive taxpayers around.

How will anyone make an extra buck from smaller drink sizes? Maybe by selling more cups but since the soft drink and restaurants are against it then I guess it is the cup manufacturers. Mind you, if it were just a case of government being corrupt you would think the soft drink manufacturers would have deep enough pockets to win this one, which they probably will.


So since we are not covering any new ground I will add one final thought and bow out. So in a nutshell, liberals want a healthy population while conservatives (not really sure what word to use there, use the term that you like) are happy to have a country where 2/3rds of the population is fat or obese.

First: Just about ANY discussion, one can find info on the net to support BOTH sides of the discussion... so siting links is IMO kinda like saying a polecat says this or that... not worth the electrons to light up the screen.

IMO we still are missing the point: In the USA, the founding fathers and the founding documents are clear the govt is NOT to engage in this behavior. Their ONLY job is to guarantee freedom and rights. It is the responsibility of each citizen to take care of themselves... and if they do not they suffer the consequences. Nanny govts do NOT make life better, unless you are one of the folks living on the dole and like it.

Which means I am supporting your ineptness... which is violating my right to freedom.

[ga-hvac-tech]

This is not just about the masses getting a job...which is going to be hell anyway with the requirements these days. This is about healthcare, and just like corrupt government, it's also about corrupt insurance companies.

I DID address why it is your concern if other people are irresponsible...it costs you and me...taxpayers...money.

You can live your life doing all the right things...working a job...paying for insurance...and then one day you get sick and the insurance company drops you, leaving you to pay the bill...you can't do it so you have to file bankruptcy.

The number of medical related bankruptcies is well over 50% of all bankruptcies in America and the majority of those people had medical insurance before they got sick.

The General Welfare clause......remember this line?

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

When bankruptcies become a huge issue in America due to medical bills the government does have the power and the right to do something about it. You might also look up the definition of the words General...and Welfare.

You assume that I'm just a guy who sits on his butt collecting government checks....that is not at all the case.

However, I am not part of what you refer to as a dishonest medical/insurance mess... I use a private Christian ministry that shares medical bills... and they DO pay when I need it (not when I frivously want it).

If we took govt TOTALLY out of the picture... the system would take care of itself... it is called the marketplace. When one co charges too much, folks just quit buying from them and buy from the less costly one... and the co 'gouging' the customer has to either become competitive or go out of business. The marketplace is has worked for decades, centuries, even millienium... until govts get involved and screw it up... USUALLY IN THE NAME (INCORRECTLY MIND YOU) OF FAIRNESS.

I am closing in on 60 years of age... I have seen a lot of stuff younger folks have not. My observations say most of the folks who want govt control, also want 'govt nanny state'... which is both illegal (constitutionally), as well as violating the rights of the working and tax-paying citizen.

So tell me student: What gives you the right to take my $$$ against my will? The govt? What happens when the govt takes YOUR $$$ against your will to finance something you do not like? Will you agree with it?
I have seen countless young folks who are liberal... learn the HARD way govts take unfair advantage of EVEYRONE... they either live in denial or they become conservative.

Reminds me of a story:
Kid wants to start a lemonaid stand... they are written a ticket by the govt for:
NO tax license
NO business license
NO healthcare license
NO food vending license
NO inspection
NO proper cash handling facility (cash register)
and about a dozen more.
There was a whole hour John Stossel on FOX about this a few mos back.

When John Stossel went to local govt agencies to inquire about how to start the lemonaide stand... nobody even knew what all he had to do... but they KNEW he could not do it legally, and they WOULD enforce the law.
SOOO: the govt will not even bother to tell you what the law is... but hey sure as heck will fine you as much as their greedly little minds can get away with if you violate the same laws they will not bother to explain.
Sounds more like a third world banana dictatorship than a democracy to me.

So tell me student; when does this institution called govt need to be regulated... and how would YOU regulate the govt to make it FAIR for ALL interests... AND keep within the bounds of the Constitution?

[corny]

I can see the government not wanting people to operate an unlicensed lemonade stand because of the food. You can get people sick making a jar of lemonade if you are not carefull.

They throw out the kid and the lemonade story but they forget the hundreds of thousands of yard sales that go on day after day in america and the flea markets.....

My sister used to make a fortune at the flea market and ebay. She would go to yard sales and buy old logo t shirts and old womens purses and such and would market them on ebay as "vintage".... she was making a couple of grand a month off this and paid no taxes whatsoever....... no government regulation.....nothing......

Yes, the little kid with the lemonade stand shut down by big government is a real tear jerker..... but for each kid out here getting his lemonade stand stomped down into the ground by a bunch of nazi stormtroopers.....there are people making a good living out here at flea markets and ebay and the government doesnt do a damn thing to regulate or stop them.

[AStudent]

However, I am not part of what you refer to as a dishonest medical/insurance mess... I use a private Christian ministry that shares medical bills... and they DO pay when I need it (not when I frivously want it).

If we took govt TOTALLY out of the picture... the system would take care of itself... it is called the marketplace. When one co charges too much, folks just quit buying from them and buy from the less costly one... and the co 'gouging' the customer has to either become competitive or go out of business. The marketplace is has worked for decades, centuries, even millienium... until govts get involved and screw it up... USUALLY IN THE NAME (INCORRECTLY MIND YOU) OF FAIRNESS.

I am closing in on 60 years of age... I have seen a lot of stuff younger folks have not. My observations say most of the folks who want govt control, also want 'govt nanny state'... which is both illegal (constitutionally), as well as violating the rights of the working and tax-paying citizen.

So tell me student: What gives you the right to take my $$$ against my will? The govt? What happens when the govt takes YOUR $$$ against your will to finance something you do not like? Will you agree with it?
I have seen countless young folks who are liberal... learn the HARD way govts take unfair advantage of EVEYRONE... they either live in denial or they become conservative.

Reminds me of a story:
Kid wants to start a lemonaid stand... they are written a ticket by the govt for:
NO tax license
NO business license
NO healthcare license
NO food vending license
NO inspection
NO proper cash handling facility (cash register)
and about a dozen more.
There was a whole hour John Stossel on FOX about this a few mos back.

When John Stossel went to local govt agencies to inquire about how to start the lemonaide stand... nobody even knew what all he had to do... but they KNEW he could not do it legally, and they WOULD enforce the law.
SOOO: the govt will not even bother to tell you what the law is... but hey sure as heck will fine you as much as their greedly little minds can get away with if you violate the same laws they will not bother to explain.
Sounds more like a third world banana dictatorship than a democracy to me.

So tell me student; when does this institution called govt need to be regulated... and how would YOU regulate the govt to make it FAIR for ALL interests... AND keep within the bounds of the Constitution?

I understand what you are saying.

When you get a job do they not have rules? Most of these rules were put in place because one too many people stole from the company, or wrecked the service vehicle, or wore clothes that had holes in them. These rules are everywhere we go due to learning experiences and people not taking responsibility.

The same IMO goes for government....too many people going bankrupt, too many ripping off the system, while I don't agree with you about abolishing government, I do think that something should be done to keep people from abusing the support systems we have put in place.

The problem is that government has been out of the picture for a long time when it comes to healthcare, unless you count medicare/medicaid/VA...and what good has it done us? The market has NOT taken care of itself, while people are going broke in the process....the same thing was going on back when the first cars came out...and something had to be done about it.

The government making laws to stop or slow bankruptcies in America is completely constitutional as long as it's done in a uniform manner.

As far as what I would do to make things fair? You got me there...I admit that I'm not smart enough to run an entire nation....but that's the great thing about what we call the United States Of America....there's not supposed to be one person running the show...we ALL have a say.

At the same time that could also be the downfall of us...too many different opinions...I would hate to be the government, having to try to please everyone.....we can't even agree here on this site just the few of us...imagine the stress of actually calling the shots for hundreds of millions of people.

Momma always told me life isn't fair boy...get over it.

[printer2]

First: Just about ANY discussion, one can find info on the net to support BOTH sides of the discussion... so siting links is IMO kinda like saying a polecat says this or that... not worth the electrons to light up the screen.

True. But at least I support my views with links that can be checked and compared with other information in order to check the validity of the information. So far you have not lit up one electron to support your statement.


IMO we still are missing the point: In the USA, the founding fathers and the founding documents are clear the govt is NOT to engage in this behavior. Their ONLY job is to guarantee freedom and rights. It is the responsibility of each citizen to take care of themselves... and if they do not they suffer the consequences. Nanny govts do NOT make life better, unless you are one of the folks living on the dole and like it.

Which means I am supporting your ineptness... which is violating my right to freedom.

And IMO a lot of you live with rosy glasses on thinking what your founding fathers decided in simpler times when a man could scratch a living out of the dirt and it took half a year to cross your country. The government is there to protect the country from internal and external threats to its existence. I would think not allowing the sale of sugar laden drinks by the bucket (you can still buy a bucket of non-sugar drinks) would be a great threat to a person's liberties and rights. If it were only the individual that suffered from being overweight there would be little need for the government to get involved but since the numbers are so great and it does effect the future of your county's health your founding fathers might have thought different.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I can see the government not wanting people to operate an unlicensed lemonade stand because of the food. You can get people sick making a jar of lemonade if you are not carefull.

They throw out the kid and the lemonade story but they forget the hundreds of thousands of yard sales that go on day after day in america and the flea markets.....

My sister used to make a fortune at the flea market and ebay. She would go to yard sales and buy old logo t shirts and old womens purses and such and would market them on ebay as "vintage".... she was making a couple of grand a month off this and paid no taxes whatsoever....... no government regulation.....nothing......

Yes, the little kid with the lemonade stand shut down by big government is a real tear jerker..... but for each kid out here getting his lemonade stand stomped down into the ground by a bunch of nazi stormtroopers.....there are people making a good living out here at flea markets and ebay and the government doesnt do a damn thing to regulate or stop them.

So tell me:

Is a kid learning how to run a business more important... or is the 'possibility' of bad lemonaide more important. Note the word POSSIBILITY!

In my mind, you have bought the lie that govt has to protect you from all those bad folks. Tell you what: go out and find a dozen lemonaid stands... buy a glass from each, and put it in a sterile lidded jar. Then get them tested. I have a $1 bill that says you will find all 12 are safe. So tell me what the govt is protecting us from? Other than an imaginary thing called fear.

I had a friend who was making in excess of $5K a month doing the garage sale to Ebay thingy... with VHS, DVD, and CD's. After about a decade, the IRS came along and literally bankrupted him; took his house, his car, and most of his possessions... and through some hocus-pokus he cannot have an internet connection... because he might break the law again (true story). They used Ebay's records to do it... So it could only be a matter of time before your sister gets caught.

And lets not forget: Part of Obamacare is thousands of new IRS agents (already hired and trained), to enforce it. Now if SCOTUS (high court) overthrows Obamacare, what do you think those IRS agents will be doing??? Yeah, you are right... ripping off every person they can find, so they can keep that cushy govt job for 20 years and get free healthcare for life at YOUR TAX expense. Still like the govt?

[ga-hvac-tech]

I understand what you are saying.

When you get a job do they not have rules? Most of these rules were put in place because one too many people stole from the company, or wrecked the service vehicle, or wore clothes that had holes in them. These rules are everywhere we go due to learning experiences and people not taking responsibility.

The same IMO goes for government....too many people going bankrupt, too many ripping off the system, while I don't agree with you about abolishing government, I do think that something should be done to keep people from abusing the support systems we have put in place.

The problem is that government has been out of the picture for a long time when it comes to healthcare, unless you count medicare/medicaid/VA...and what good has it done us? The market has NOT taken care of itself, while people are going broke in the process....the same thing was going on back when the first cars came out...and something had to be done about it.

The government making laws to stop or slow bankruptcies in America is completely constitutional as long as it's done in a uniform manner.

As far as what I would do to make things fair? You got me there...I admit that I'm not smart enough to run an entire nation....but that's the great thing about what we call the United States Of America....there's not supposed to be one person running the show...we ALL have a say.

At the same time that could also be the downfall of us...too many different opinions...I would hate to be the government, having to try to please everyone.....we can't even agree here on this site just the few of us...imagine the stress of actually calling the shots for hundreds of millions of people.

Momma always told me life isn't fair boy...get over it.

You still do not get it:

Tell you what: Read the founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments):

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

Then tell me how you think it is the Govt's job to force folks to do what the govt thinks is good for them. Then tell me just 'who' makes these standards. Ever question the standards? Might learn something if you questioned rather than followed like a heard of sheeple.

[ga-hvac-tech]

True. But at least I support my views with links that can be checked and compared with other information in order to check the validity of the information. So far you have not lit up one electron to support your statement.



And IMO a lot of you live with rosy glasses on thinking what your founding fathers decided in simpler times when a man could scratch a living out of the dirt and it took half a year to cross your country. The government is there to protect the country from internal and external threats to its existence. I would think not allowing the sale of sugar laden drinks by the bucket (you can still buy a bucket of non-sugar drinks) would be a great threat to a person's liberties and rights. If it were only the individual that suffered from being overweight there would be little need for the government to get involved but since the numbers are so great and it does effect the future of your county's health your founding fathers might have thought different.

Printer, you are still seeing this through the eyes of 'the govt knows best'... which is just wrong according to the founding documents of this country.

Let me say this one more time: It is the job of the govt to protect each citizen's freedom and rights, until those freedoms and/or rights infringe on another's freedom and rights... it is NOT the govt's job to control the behavior of the citizens.

As to the argument about insurance co's and doc costs... AS noted repeatedly; the free market system will take care of that if the govt will just get out of the way.

MeThinks it is either fear or lazyness or greed that keeps folks from embracing freedom. Can you tell me which one?

This reminds me of a story:
Little orphan waif kid... manages to steal a PBJ (peanut butter & jelly sandwich). And wow, is that kid proud of his accomplishment; he hangs on to that sandwich with all his power. Then he walks up the steps of a building where he can enter and work a days work pushing a broom and get enough $$$ to buy a dozen PBJ's... just one catch: the kid has to LEAVE the PBJ he stole in the trash...
Guess what the kid does: He turns around and leaves the work and $$$ and 12 sandwiches, because he is too proud to trash the one he stole.

Now anyone care to explain the moral of that story??? I will later in the day if this thread continues.

[printer2]

Printer, you are still seeing this through the eyes of 'the govt knows best'... which is just wrong according to the founding documents of this country.

And with 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being obese due to marketing forces it is hard to blame the government on this one.


Let me say this one more time: It is the job of the govt to protect each citizen's freedom and rights, until those freedoms and/or rights infringe on another's freedom and rights... it is NOT the govt's job to control the behavior of the citizens.

But it is ok for the companies to manipulate people into making poor choices to the detriment of your country.


As to the argument about insurance co's and doc costs... AS noted repeatedly; the free market system will take care of that if the govt will just get out of the way.

You have a lot of faith in a free market system that has never been free and never will. With the free movement of money why would the free market care about your country once it sucks the life blood out of it? [/QUOTE]


MeThinks it is either fear or lazyness or greed that keeps folks from embracing freedom. Can you tell me which one?

What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?


This reminds me of a story:
Little orphan waif kid... manages to steal a PBJ (peanut butter & jelly sandwich). And wow, is that kid proud of his accomplishment; he hangs on to that sandwich with all his power. Then he walks up the steps of a building where he can enter and work a days work pushing a broom and get enough $$$ to buy a dozen PBJ's... just one catch: the kid has to LEAVE the PBJ he stole in the trash...
Guess what the kid does: He turns around and leaves the work and $$$ and 12 sandwiches, because he is too proud to trash the one he stole.

Now anyone care to explain the moral of that story??? I will later in the day if this thread continues.

Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.

[AStudent]

You still do not get it:

Tell you what: Read the founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Amendments):

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

Then tell me how you think it is the Govt's job to force folks to do what the govt thinks is good for them. Then tell me just 'who' makes these standards. Ever question the standards? Might learn something if you questioned rather than followed like a heard of sheeple.

I've already explained your first question to you.

To your second question....we make the standards. You can say government makes them up, but who elects the government? You can blame the government all you want...but if the government fails it is because the people failed to act. We are their bosses...we put politicians in office and we can take them out of office. Another way we make the standards is that if we were responsible with our lives the government would not have to make standards for us.

To your third question....Yes I do question standards...as everyone should. I just don't see it being a big deal that they outlaw big gulps....I buy powdered Gatorade at the store and carry a Bubba keg with me to work...often I will fill my cup with water instead....drinking soda when you've been out sweating all day is not the brightest idea, and it's even cheaper if you buy in bulk and carry a mug with you.

You sure do like to assume a lot of things.

[corny]

If those children or those ebayers or those yard salers want to learn to how to operate a business then they should learn about fees, permits and other business neccesities....

I would much rather have a lemonade stand knocked down by the nazis then have one person get sick from some kids lemonade.

You know who more than likely pushes for these lemonade stands to be knocked down dont you ..... Businessmen..... who pay taxes, insurance etc.....

Who else could it be....... but other businessmen whos desire is to squash any competition...even if its a couple of six year olds selling lemonade for a dime a cup.

The government doesnt do a lot that someone doesnt push it to do.... like businesses seeking to drive their competitors out.

I even see it in our own industry..... guys with nice buisinesses who did side work like bandits when they were younger......going into supply houses and threatening to quit doing business if the supply house sells to side jobbers....or approaching the city demanding that they go after side jobbers who dont secure the neccesary permits.

John Stossel and others are not concerned about these kids..... I doubt John Stossel would even buy lemonade from his next door neighbors kid.....

They just dig these stories up and use them because of their emotional value.

Thats all Im saying ga..... yes.... Im sure a few ebayers have been caught...same goes for a lot of other "businesses" flying under the radar.....

But to use something like a city shutting down a kids lemonade stand as an example of government nannyism run amok is just plain wrong.....because it simply isnt true.

[ga-hvac-tech]

And with 2/3rds of your country being overweight and 1/3rd being obese due to marketing forces it is hard to blame the government on this one.



But it is ok for the companies to manipulate people into making poor choices to the detriment of your country.



You have a lot of faith in a free market system that has never been free and never will. With the free movement of money why would the free market care about your country once it sucks the life blood out of it?



What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?



Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.[/QUOTE]

Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I've already explained your first question to you.

To your second question....we make the standards. You can say government makes them up, but who elects the government? You can blame the government all you want...but if the government fails it is because the people failed to act. We are their bosses...we put politicians in office and we can take them out of office. Another way we make the standards is that if we were responsible with our lives the government would not have to make standards for us.

To your third question....Yes I do question standards...as everyone should. I just don't see it being a big deal that they outlaw big gulps....I buy powdered Gatorade at the store and carry a Bubba keg with me to work...often I will fill my cup with water instead....drinking soda when you've been out sweating all day is not the brightest idea, and it's even cheaper if you buy in bulk and carry a mug with you.

You sure do like to assume a lot of things.

One of these days, the govt is gonna rip you off and you are gonna be pissed as all h*ll... Remember this thread... Someone tried to explain, however you are too smart to learn.

Any govt big enough to give you what you want (and feeling like you are being taken care of may be part of what you want... as opposed to rugged individualism), is big enough to take it away.

Benjamin Franklin, when walking out for a break from forming the govt of this country, was asked by a woman: 'What kind of govt are you giving us?" He replied: 'A republic, if you can keep it.'

The moral of that statement is: As long as the citizens keep govt SMALL and under their control, they will have what we are forming. When the citizens start letting govt control their lives... they will loose the very freedoms they think they have... a little at a time.

Come back when you are in your 50's or 60's... and tell me this country is greater than it was when you were a student. I have another of those $1 bills that says you will agree govt is too big and a pain in your personal behind.

[ga-hvac-tech]

What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?



Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.

Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.

Not sure how you screwed this up Printer, however I did NOT post the above quote.

I have read endless stats which say one has a lot better chance of getting healthcare in the USA than Canada or England... so tell me what is so great about rationed healthcare... just because it is free.

All I have to do to get all the healthcare I need (key word is NEED), is to talk to a few friends and carefully choose a doc. Never had any issues in my whole life.

MeThinks this healthcare politics stuff is more 'fear mongering' than reality... unless we are talking about a person with a helpless mentality who is not willing to take control and responsibility for their personal health as well as their healthcare needs.

So tell me Printer: What is wrong with a healthcare system where the buyer can tell the insurance co to take a hike... and find an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives if one wants to go shopping... rather than gripe all day.

[corny]

I'll have a 60 ounce super big gulp please......Coke....and just the syrup please...with no soda or ice. Oh...can I have a couple of scoops of icecream on top of that..... dont worry about the syrup spilling over......I will lick my hands and the cup clean when I am done.

Oh... I also need a small diet coke to wash it all down with.

[printer2]

What is freedom? I live in a country where we have 'free' healthcare. I do not have to worry about some insurance company dropping me, loosing my job and loosing medical insurance, I can quite my job to pursue another career without worrying about medical coverage. You would see it as not having the freedom to choose if I have medical insurance or not. So which of these two options gives me the more freedom in my life?



Sorry, story from fantasy land. Little orphan would not think twice about the sandwich and will eat it as he is hungry. Methinks you may be stuck in a ideological fantasy land on this one.

Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.[/QUOTE]

Is this your Robo impression, sidestepping the question with misdirection? I (the liberal) am more interested in debating a problem than offering solutions? When I outlined the problem, 10 teaspoons of sugar in a 12 oz can of pop (almost one spoon per oz, multiply that by 30 - 40 ounces), part of the solution, reducing cup sizes as is the topic of the discussion. I explained that we are wired to consume more when more is placed in front of us and that the food industry uses this to exploit us for greater sales. I explained the health risks and the costs to society.

And you have offered what as a solution to the problem? Free choice? Give me a break.

[AStudent]

Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.

Is this your Robo impression, sidestepping the question with misdirection? I (the liberal) am more interested in debating a problem than offering solutions? When I outlined the problem, 10 teaspoons of sugar in a 12 oz can of pop (almost one spoon per oz, multiply that by 30 - 40 ounces), part of the solution, reducing cup sizes as is the topic of the discussion. I explained that we are wired to consume more when more is placed in front of us and that the food industry uses this to exploit us for greater sales. I explained the health risks and the costs to society.

And you have offered what as a solution to the problem? Free choice? Give me a break.[/QUOTE]

I also explained things to him that he completely ignored....and he later came back and asked me to explain again....all the while assuming that I'm being supported financially by the government. I'm done with this.

[printer2]

Ya know Printer, this whole post tells me something that is IMO the cancer of society: Folks are more interested in debate than solutions. If a person really wanted to SOLVE the problem... they would research history to find what has worked and what has not... and act accordingly.

And the ones that debate the most (read that argue for the sake of arguing... like wressling a pig in the mud), are usually the liberals who really could care less if the problem is ever solved... as long as they get freebees at someone else's expense. Take away that safety net and lets see how fast folks go back to making responsible decisions.

However we all know the safety net will never go away as long as polecats can BUY votes with it... so I guess I will have to put up with worthless leaches on society... until the rest of us paying the bills gets sick of it and votes the crooked polecats out of office... which is gonna happen this fall.

Not sure how you screwed this up Printer, however I did NOT post the above quote.

You wrapped the quote box around part of my quote and left part of it outside the quote box. The rest of my quote is now part of your reply. I did not screw it up. You did. If you can not figure that one out maybe you should take a break.



I have read endless stats which say one has a lot better chance of getting healthcare in the USA than Canada or England... so tell me what is so great about rationed healthcare... just because it is free.

And I have read endless posts on the lack of health care in Canada from people that do not know better. Well for one everyone is treated equally and it costs us 50% less than yours does.


All I have to do to get all the healthcare I need (key word is NEED), is to talk to a few friends and carefully choose a doc. Never had any issues in my whole life.

MeThinks this healthcare politics stuff is more 'fear mongering' than reality... unless we are talking about a person with a helpless mentality who is not willing to take control and responsibility for their personal health as well as their healthcare needs.

So tell me Printer: What is wrong with a healthcare system where the buyer can tell the insurance co to take a hike... and find an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives if one wants to go shopping... rather than gripe all day.

We were discussing freedom, I gave an example of one of the things that I find truly liberating to my choices of what I can do with my life. What you do or can do in your country has never really concerned me. Go tell an insurance company where to go. I have never said our system is right for you but I have defended it from those that say it can not work. What is wrong with a health care system where you can go shopping? Nothing unless you have a precondition and can not get insurance leaving you with getting the help you need from a hospital and then not being able to pay for it. In the end the insurance companies or government end up paying for it by higher costs passed on to people who are covered.

Which brings me back to drink sizes... ...oh yeah, that is how we got here.

[Tool-Slinger]

I'll have a 60 ounce super big gulp please......Coke....and just the syrup please...with no soda or ice. Oh...can I have a couple of scoops of icecream on top of that..... dont worry about the syrup spilling over......I will lick my hands and the cup clean when I am done.

Oh... I also need a small diet coke to wash it all down with.
I may need a big gulp also. I am pouring salt in the palm of my hand and licking it up. It makes me thirsty.