HeatPump in Seattle? does it really save $$?

[toadie]

I live in the Seattle area and am thinking of adding AC to my house this year. I currently have forced air gas furnace in a 2 year old home (3200 sq feet).

So one of the guy at HomeDepot was suggesting looking into getting a Heat Pump instead of AC due to increasing natural gas cost

I am interested in learning

a) whether or not the $aving is really substantial considering a heat pump (air) is around $ 1800 more than an AC. On a rough calculation, it looks like it will take around 5-7 years to recoup the difference.

b) Beside the $ question, do heat pump work well in Seattle?

c) Thoughts on RHEEM /R22 13 SEER Heat Pump? How reliable are they ? and how noisy do they run? I've searched both on the net as well as RHEEM website but am unable to find additional info on noise level when the pump runs

d) Is it worth going to a 14+ SEER in Seattle?

e) THoughts on R22 vs. 410A/Puron ?

Thanks in advance
Tod

[flick]

My inlaws are in Enemclaw. They went with H/P instead of A/C. They love it. They said it saved them a large amount compared to before. Your winters are pretty mild. I would strongly consider it where you are. More money up front, but worth it.

[seatonheating]

Toadie. Give me a call or shoot me an Email. I can help you out as I am a contractor here in Seattle.

I can provide you with references of many happy customers that I have provided with a heat pump in the area.

Info is in my credentials.

[deme]

1760 sq. ft. rancher in Vancouver B.C. area, just North of Blaine Wa.
Replaced old 19 year old gas furnace in June/03 with 80% efficiency gas furnace.

Installed 2 ton heat pump during summer 2004.
Improved crawlspace wall insulation to R12 in summer 2005.

Energy use comparisons.
Converted electricity Kwh into Gigajoules (GJ). Gas in GJ.
1 GJ = 9.48 U.S. Therms.
12 months ending-----June/03-----June/04----June/06
Electricity Kwh-------7592---------7562-------10230
Electr.in Gigajoules---27.33-------27.22-------36.83
Gas Gigajoules(GJ)-----126.3--------102.5-------48.70
Total energy in GJ-----153.63-------129.72------65.93

Neglecting degree-days variation, energy use for 2005/2006 was 51% of energy used with 80% gas furnace and no air conditioning in 2003/2004.

Notes: 1)I haven't taken into account the different heating degree-days for various years.
2)The energy use for 12 months ending June/06 includes air-conditioning energy use (very small amount)

[Edited by deme on 07-09-2006 at 09:46 AM]

[mjk_na]

.

[Edited by mjk_na on 07-09-2006 at 09:51 AM]

[mjk_na]

a) It's worth it to take heat pump due to mild winters.

b) Yes.

c) Leave this to seatonheating ;) after he/she has sized it right. At least he/she believes in referral system :)

d) It is not worth it to go for high efficiency anywhere in the world, if your usage is low. Otherwise, pick a higher efficiency one:

http://www.air-conditioner-selection.com/roi-air-conditioner-buying-guide.html

e) No real difference in performance, especially for residential users. R-410a is new, and will be used longer. R-22 is still very widely used.

[xv80satisfiedcust]

d) Is it worth going to a 14+ SEER in Seattle?

The heat pump efficiency (HSPF) will be relevant since you'll be using it more for heat than AC.

[dan sw fl]

Originally posted by toadie
I live in the Seattle area and am thinking of adding AC to my house this year. I currently have forced air gas furnace in a 2 year old home (3200 sq feet).

So one of the guy at HomeDepot was suggesting looking into getting a Heat Pump instead of AC due to increasing natural gas cost

I am interested in learning
a) whether or not the $aving is really substantial considering a heat pump (air) is around $ 1800 more than an AC. On a rough calculation, it looks like it will take around 5-7 years to recoup the difference.
b) Beside the $ question, do heat pump work well in Seattle?

d) Is it worth going to a 14+ SEER in Seattle?

a) Depends on your electric and gas rates.
6+ years payback seem "about right".

b) Yes
d) I doubt it.

[battleground_bluto]

Toadie,

I live in Vancouver/Portland and have a heat pump. I'm just a homeowner, but HP's are very common in the Pacific NW. I just replaced my old HP with a new, more efficient unit about two weeks ago and am very happy. Seatonheating responded to a few of my earlier posts with some great info - definately give him a jingle.
As an observation on my heating/cooling bills (not an expert optinion by any means) My last house was about 600sf smaller than my current house. It had a forced air/gas furnace with an AC Unit. Even though my HP is strictly electric & I have more sq footage now, my heating/cooling bills are less with the HP (the old one that just died). BTW - I also notice some hybrid HP systems which could use natural gas for emergency heating - not sure as I didn't have the option, but there might be a benefit to researching them.

[suemarkp]

I had oil and its a slam dunk that a heat pump is cheaper than oil. I can not get gas at my house (unless I pay for a 1500 foot trench). Since I don't have gas I don't know what the gas rates really are. I saw a blurb from PSE about what they were raising rates to, and using that number gas seems cheaper for heating even if you have a COP of 5 on your heat pump. But I don't think people are actually charged that rate, as they mentioned something about increasing the charged rate to compensate for the hook up costs and other "delivery fees".

If you want air conditioning, then I'd do an energy cost comparison for gas -vs- electric using the rates on your current bill. I'd use a COP of 2 to 2.5 when you compare. If electric is cheaper, then go with a heat pump. If not, just put in an air conditioner.

Something else to consider -- if you go with a heat pump, what will you do for those days when the outside temp is below the balance point -- a gas furnace backup or electric? If you go with electric, you may need a power service upgrade. If you have a 200A service and your major appliances (range, dryer, water heater) are gas, then you can probably go with an electric heat backup.