DIY and Flexiduct and Crazy?

[downtown]

Ok,

I have purchased HVAC calc, calculated heat loss/gain and CFM distribution. I have installed radiant infloor heating and I am working with a outside of my area geothermal heat pump company. I am TOTALLY CRAZY to think I could install flexiduct for a DYI project throughout the house? The local HVAC companies will not work with me unless I purchase THEIR heating and AC system. Waterfurnance, with local support plus installation of duct work, adds a minimum of $20K - probably $30K when you add all of the HVAC labor requirements. I have always wondered why not flexiduct the whole house. Large forged duct work seems very labor intensive and a reason to charge $$$. I know I am crazy, stupid etc. Any comments?

[idontgetit]

Originally posted by downtown
Any comments?

Troll

[beenthere]

If installed right, it will work fine.
Problem is most people don't install it right.
Then the equipment its hooked to breaks down, and you get to pay for it to be redone the right way.

The installation is only half your problem.
Who's going to work on it for you, if you bought it direct.

[ARPA]

Ask yourself this.....

Is the auto service company any different meaning can you take your own parts to them for them to install?

Is a restuarant any different meaning can you take your own food in for them to prepare and cook for you?

If your transmition is bad, do they let you remove the exhaust system to save you a buck?

As for your question about flex and metal duct.
There are companies that will flex duct your entire house, and some that will only metal duct your entire house, and some that will use a little of both.
Find a contractor that you can work with and do it the way you want, but, realize, he is the professional, and knows what is best and is giving you his expert advice on how something should be done.
It is up to you if you want to do it that way or not.

[flick]

hvac companies do not install the "forged" duct to get more money out of the cusomer. The metal ducts are used for the least amount of air restriction (static pressure) in the system. It has the best air flow. The flex duct is very restrictive to air flow. It will increase the static pressure in a properly designed system by 3 times, even more when not sized properly. Any system you have installed needs to operate at certain static pressures. Designing a system with all flex duct will create way too much static for the system and create nothing but problems. You can size the flex duct to accomodate for the system. However most residential structures do not have enough room to accomidate such a large size of duct nor do the owners of those structures want such a monstrosity to look at or try to cover up.

[beenthere]

Originally posted by flick


The flex duct is very restrictive to air flow. It will increase the static pressure in a properly designed system by 3 times, even more when not sized properly.

If it increases the static pressure by 3 times, its not designed and installed right.

When designed and installed right, it will have or be close to the static pressure that was listed to use in the Manual D just as sheet metal would.

[flick]

let me proofread my post. I meant to say the flex duct is 3 times more restrictive than metal duct. When sized properly will work at same static as metal. But, like I stated before, the size of the flex will be much larger than the metal to accommodate according to manual D

[beenthere]

Originally posted by flick
let me proofread my post. I meant to say the flex duct is 3 times more restrictive than metal duct. When sized properly will work at same static as metal. But, like I stated before, the size of the flex will be much larger than the metal to accommodate according to manual D

LOL... thats better.

[flick]

Sorry, for the confusion. I'm still delirious from all the fireworks we had last night, and the cocktails after.

[trane]

Originally posted by downtown
Ok,

I know I am crazy, stupid etc. Any comments?
__________________________________________________ _______

You pretty much answered your own question.

[beenthere]

Originally posted by trane

Originally posted by downtown
Ok,

I know I am crazy, stupid etc. Any comments?
__________________________________________________ _______

You pretty much answered your own question.

ROFLMAO

[downtown]

Stupid here,

Thanks for all the incouragement!

Is it fair to ask a local HVAC company to install my duct work WITHOUT purchasing THEIR heating/AC system?

Maybe I just need to look more for either a local HVAC technician or a smaller company willing to put up my duct work.

Agree?

[citywide service]

If your just hell bent on saving money then have a contractor come in and do a manual "D" using the flex duct.

Take that information and install it yourself....just remember, your the installing contractor - if there is a problem with your unit not working properly, not cooling/heating properly its your baby!

Warranty will only be covered for parts on the equipment.

If it turns out to be the cause is a faulty ductwork installation (high static taking out a blower motor, furnace tripping on limits, unit freeezing up or some other problem related to your work)then you will probably be denied warranty claim for the repair or be charged to repair the faulty installation to get the system working properly.

A contractor(a good one anyway)will design a "system"; this means everything is designed to workd properly together. One part of the system not working correctly makes the whole thing not work as efficient and comfortably as it should.


Yes in our industry people think we charge too much but just think how much education it takes to do this job correctly! If everyone could do it then there would be no need for any of us but we go to school to learn the trade, take continuing education classes, manufacturers classes and then there is the equipment it takes to do our jobs! My god! price a bottle of refrigerant or the recovery machine for it then come and complain to me about cost!

You go to work everyday probably in an office where the temperature is controlled but when that breaks down who thinks about the poor guy on the roof fixing that thing?

Think it's hot inside? go up on the roof!

We do what we do as a "service" to the community, we are here to help as best we can but this is our "office" and our area of expertise. We offer our solution to your problem and would like to be paid same as you at the end of the day (or week as case may be).

I'm not trying to pound on you here for trying to save money, just venting a bit about people thinking we are charging way too much. Just ask anyone on here if they make enough money to leave a family funtion to come out and fix your A/C!

We all do it because that's what puts food on the table but strictly speaking about cost...What would it take for you to leave your son or daughters birthday party to go to work and do what you do? Happens everyday to us...some charge accordingly, some charge regular rates but the majority go anyhow.

Like I said it's a service and that's how we get paid.


Sorry for the long post reply, just thought I would get this off my chest as I have had alot of people say "I can't afford that" lately while cooking steaks on the BBQ while I am eating hamburgers (YEAH I KNOW IT'S STEAK TOO!) or drive a better vehicle than I can provide for my family...you guys know the story...NUFF SAID!!


CW.

[beenthere]

You might find one, that isn't too busy yet.(doubtful)

But busy comanies don't put off customers that buy equipment from them to do the ductwork for some one that bought their own equipment from some place else.

You have no idea how much this could cost you if the unit has first year warranty problems.

Your local contractors will charge you full service price, and you will have to ezcept a small refund from the manufacturer.

When we sell and install a unit, first year labor warranty is provide by us, not the manufacturer.

[trane]

Originally posted by downtown
Stupid here,



Maybe I just need to look more for either a local HVAC technician or a smaller company willing to put up my duct work.

Agree?


__________________________________________________ _________

I agree, what you are looking for will be in the Yellow Pages under H for Hack. Why would anyone in business mess with you when they have a list of people that are waiting for equipment and duct to be installed that they sold?

[joken]

Geothermal equipment is very expensive and typically has a long pay back period. The equipment absolutely has to be installed properly. I think you are exposing yourself to potential warranty issues and would advise against doing the work yourself. Keep in mind that the manufacturer of the equipment has the final decision on warranty claims, not the contractor that already has your money. Ken

[downtown]

Thanks for the long post. I understand HVAC contractors are just trying to make a living. With radiant floor heating already in place, I am "out of scope" for the majority of contractors in my area. I am willing to work with a local installer but not at $30-50K. One contractor even bragged that many of his customers spend over $100K for geothermal plus radiant. Not me.

[xv80satisfiedcust]

I never thought I would read a more depressing thread than "Did I Buy The Wrong Furnace", but those very high prices you mention on geothermal are just sad.