4 year old leaking Carrier System

[jsmit86]

I have a Carrier system that was installed in a new home in 2008. Before I took possession in July 2008, the system was not working. The AC Contractor came out and added 1lb 3 oz of Freon. I had to add 2 lbs last year in 2011, and the system is not working well now. Will only cool to about 79 degrees.

The system is a Carrier 24ABA360A310. The house is approx 4000 sq ft in the Chicago area.

The AC Contractor who installed the unit basically will charge me to come out, and it sounds pretty expensive.

I also contacted another local contractor who will commit to getting me up and running with a full dye leak test, and if necessary replace the A coil. He is a Lennox Dealer, so the coil will be a Lennox.

3 Questions...

Carrier 24ABA360A310 ... what size/Ton unit is this?

Is it OK to use the Lennox A Coil? The Carrier Dealer admits that he had a lot of issues with the A Coils of my vintage, and that the new units are Tin coated.

The Lennox guy is substantially less... and that is without getting the coil part via the Carrier Part warranty.

Finally, is there any harm to over sizing the coil... say up to a 5ton?

Thanks!

[BaldLoonie]

4 year old coil is under warranty. If the Lennox dealer won't help you with the Carrier warranty, I'd find a Carrier dealer. We replaced a 4 year old coil yesterday and will get the customer warranty credit on the new one even though that isn't our brand. I would look for someone who uses an electronic sniffer, rather than putting dye in your system.

[surenuff]

can't beleive that the installing contractor wants to charge you to come out and service/look at a unit fro one of his customers on a warranty issue. Now I can see him telling you that if he finds a problem not covered by warranty that there will be a service charge. I agree that I would try to locate a leak without the use of the dye if I could. I have used dye before but only as a last resort. Find a reputable carrier dealer who will help you, and take advantage of the warranty.

[jsmit86]

To clarify, the original installer will honor the Parts warranty which is 5 yrs from install. The issue is that the labor charges will be substantially higher han the total repair from the Lennox guy. The Lennox guy has no way to get the coil from carrier under warranty, but says there is no problem using the Lennox coil.

The Lennox guy will start with the sniffer, but will also add the dye to verify that he is not missing any leak. He is not charging any extra for this he is quoting acfixedxprice to diagnose, and a foxed price to replace the coil if needed

The original contractor only had a 1 yr labor warranty, and did not find the leak using the sniffer when the system leaked prior to me closing on the house.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

I'd find a Carrier dealer. Don't be swayed by a cheap price. Something sounds like its missing with that guys knowledge and pricing.
You should replace the coil with an equivelent Carrier. Of course he's telling you Lennox is ok. He sells Lennox!

[jsmit86]

can't beleive that the installing contractor wants to charge you to come out and service/look at a unit fro one of his customers on a warranty issue. Now I can see him telling you that if he finds a problem not covered by warranty that there will be a service charge. I agree that I would try to locate a leak without the use of the dye if I could. I have used dye before but only as a last resort. Find a reputable carrier dealer who will help you, and take advantage of the warranty.

I'd expect that even another Carrier Dealer is going to charge sustantial $$$ to find the leak, and also to replace the coil, even if he gets is free.

Frankly, I think the orignal installer should handle this one gratis because they did not properly diagnose the leak in the first place, but he's standing on "labor is 1 year".

Am I wrong in expecting better than that? This is a large firm in the Chicago Area. Good BBB rating, but was always pressing for service contracts that did not even cover all parts and labor...

[Mr Bill]

The Lennox guy has no way to get the coil from carrier under warranty.

One word, bull! :gah:

[gregp]

it hard to believe that a Carrier dealer is more expensive than a Lennox dealer who will be charging you for labor AND a coil, but that's neither here nor there. The Carrier will be an exact replacement. The Lennox coil more than likely will have to be cobbled in somehow. We are a Trane dealer, but have no problem getting warranty coils, parts etc. from other manufacturers. If you think you are being ripped off, call another Carrier dealer.

[HVACTechNC]

A Carrier condenser and a Lennox coil is mis-matched eqipment and I would strongly advise against it...

AHRI would not approve those two components together.

[SoFlaDave]

As a Trane comfort specialist I've never in 12 yrs had an issue getting warranty parts for ANY manufacturer. I also find it extremely fishy that the lennox dealer is drastically cheaper on a non warranty coil replacement.

[wahoo]

If the Lennox guy is an established business there should be NO problem getting Carrier to get him a warranty coil. If he's telling you otherwise, then get someone else. This whole thing sounds fishy as the original dealer should make this right as you bought a leaking system in the first place. Me? I'd contact the Carrier customer service folks and get them on this also.:gah:

[comfortdoc]

1-800-CARRIER. Ask for thier guidance getting this resolved to your satisfacton.

[jsmit86]

1-800-CARRIER. Ask for thier guidance getting this resolved to your satisfacton.

I called them. The lady on the phone seemed to agree that the installer should be standing behind this. In any event, she told me if I got the serial number from the coil that they may be able to assist. I emailed the original contractor to get that. I am assuming that this will be somewhere inside the sheet metal of the duct work, right?

My Carrier contractor has also told me that Carrier had a lot of issues with these copper coils. He said the new ones are tin plated to reduce the problems.

The Carrier help line person also seemed to indicate that it is POSSIBLE, that there may some assistance direct from Carrier depending on the serial number of the coil. She also said that my Lennox dealer may be able to get the Carrier coil if their distributor is authorized for Carrier. If not, she indicated that it could be tough if my Lennox guy has no existing business relationship with Carrier, or a Carrier Distributor.

[jsmit86]

OK -

While I am not thrilled with the original Carrier Contractor, he now is about 23% less than the Lennox guy to do the job with a Carrier coil, and about 40% less than his original quote. His point is that the house builder contracts for his systems, and cuts a deal that only includes 1 year of labor. Seem like this is not the best way to make happy customers, but at this point I will have him do the job since it's a matched coil.

I still think that they should have found the leak back in 2008. They checked the coil with the sniffer, and did not find a leak. I hope I never run into this again, but if I do, I'll insist on finding the leak while I am under warranty.

I will also see if there is anything that Carrier will do to assist with the labor.. not holding my breath, but I will ask.

Thanks for all of your info... let me know if you have any final words of wisdom.

[comfortdoc]

Work with Carrier as they asked, but don't let it be delayed. Get the serial number to them as soon as possible. They might surprise you.

[surenuff]

I'd expect that even another Carrier Dealer is going to charge sustantial $$$ to find the leak, and also to replace the coil, even if he gets is free.

Frankly, I think the orignal installer should handle this one gratis because they did not properly diagnose the leak in the first place, but he's standing on "labor is 1 year".

Am I wrong in expecting better than that? This is a large firm in the Chicago Area. Good BBB rating, but was always pressing for service contracts that did not even cover all parts and labor...

Different companies will handle things differently. For me, customer satisfaction has always been number one. If I have to eat a little labor on a part that is just out of warranty, especially if I have had to work on it during the warranty period, so be it. I often ask my guys what it cost to make a customer happy, and then ask them what it cost to make one mad. We all have to make a living, but I have found that working with the customer to ensure satisfaction with out service has paid big dividends. Where there is no way to calculate lost work due to bad references as to your service.

[wahoo]

As a consumer you need to look at BBB ratings somewhat skeptically. The BBB usually rates their paying members higher than non-paying contractors so basically these improved ratings are "purchased". I'd still keep after Carrier about these coils as they may have some help and don't delay as Doc mentioned.:.02:

[jsmit86]

I talked with Carrier today, gave them my model and serial #. They told me to go ahead with the repair, and to fax them the paper work. No guarantee, but they said they will consider doing something.

I'll have the Carrier contractor do the job to keep the system matched.
In total I'll be out of pocket just into the $xxxx range, the the current repair in the high $xxx range. It seems reasonable IF there was no labor warranty, so hopefully Carrier will come through with a reasonable settlement.

[woody19]

What amazes me about this is that fact that nobody has definetly located the leak and are all assuming it is the coil. It could be in the lineset or the outdoor unit. We have numerous leaks in tubing caused by nail punctures from the siding installers, etc. so unless they can positively locate the source of the leak replacing the coil may not resolve your problem.
Carrier will work with you and I am sure that if indeed the coil is where the leak is you can get not only a new ALUMINUM coil but labor as well. I have been able to get labor covered a few times when the original contractor has failed, for whatever reason, to perform as expected.

[jsmit86]

What amazes me about this is that fact that nobody has definetly located the leak and are all assuming it is the coil. It could be in the lineset or the outdoor unit. We have numerous leaks in tubing caused by nail punctures from the siding installers, etc. so unless they can positively locate the source of the leak replacing the coil may not resolve your problem.
Carrier will work with you and I am sure that if indeed the coil is where the leak is you can get not only a new ALUMINUM coil but labor as well. I have been able to get labor covered a few times when the original contractor has failed, for whatever reason, to perform as expected.

The original contractor was out today, and confirmed that the coil is leaking. They will install a new Carrier coil tomorrow. They are telling me the new ones are tin plated, and should be more durable.

Once I have all of the paperwork, I have to fax it to Carrier to have them review and decide what if any reimbursement is warranted. When I called they needed the Coil model and serial # before they would pass me to the supervisor. I got the impression that my info confirmed perhaps my coil fell into the batch of bad ones, so perhaps they will help out.

By the way, this system is a 5 ton unit. The coil was installed in Jan of 2008, but the coil itself was manufactured in August of 2006.

[comfortdoc]

Attach a copy of the original install invoice with the paperwork you send Carrier.

The tin plate will be fine.

[joemach]

The original contractor was out today, and confirmed that the coil is leaking. They will install a new Carrier coil tomorrow. They are telling me the new ones are tin plated, and should be more durable.

Once I have all of the paperwork, I have to fax it to Carrier to have them review and decide what if any reimbursement is warranted. When I called they needed the Coil model and serial # before they would pass me to the supervisor. I got the impression that my info confirmed perhaps my coil fell into the batch of bad ones, so perhaps they will help out.

By the way, this system is a 5 ton unit. The coil was installed in Jan of 2008, but the coil itself was manufactured in August of 2006.

I think this is the best solution.

However there is a good chance that Carrier will cover the cost of the coil. It would be like a recall item.

But if I were you, I would have made enough noise to get the free coil replacement before I ordered the replacement done. Now you are at their mercy as to whether they will cover the coil itself.

I like to see manufacturer's more responsible for their products and inept engineering.

We are not their quality control department!

[jsmit86]

I think this is the best solution.

However there is a good chance that Carrier will cover the cost of the coil. It would be like a recall item.

But if I were you, I would have made enough noise to get the free coil replacement before I ordered the replacement done. Now you are at their mercy as to whether they will cover the coil itself.

I like to see manufacturer's more responsible for their products and inept engineering.

We are not their quality control department!

Carrier is definitely covering the Coil part itself. The issue is the labor/Freon.

The builder only provided a 1yr labor warranty. The original contractor has reduced the price somewhat, but won't do the repair free. I know that many local contractors will cover labor for systems that they install for the life of the coil warranty, but in my situation that is not the case, allegedly because the builder had the choice to save some money vs. providing better coverage.

[jsmit86]

Repair is done. Unit running and cooling fine. New coil and 10lbs of R410a. Took a little over 3 hours.

Now just hoping for 2 things.....
1. Hoping Carrier will assist with the bill.
2. Hoping that the new tin coated coil will hold up better than the plain copper one.

Thank you all for your help! This is a very informative site.

Your opinion regarding staying matched Carrier (vs. using a Lennox Coil) swayed me. I pressed the original Carrier contractor, and they ended up coming in just a bit over 50% of their original quote.

I will also have a much better understanding of how to proceed when it's time to replace the system.

[jsmit86]

Well... the system is running, but it's about 86 degrees outside, and the best I can get the house down to is about 73.

I changed all of the filters using the lower end 3M Filtrete 300.
Unit runs non-stop to keep the place at 73-74. Assuming that's not right.

Guess I'm calling him again on Monday. :confused:

[Mr Bill]

Unit runs non-stop to keep the place at 73-74. Assuming that's not right.Guess I'm calling him again on Monday. :confused:

You know, I think some folks get air conditioning mixed up with refrigeration, :grin2: come over to my house it's 78° in here and 89° outside, and my unit runs a lot. If you have to turn your unit to 73/74 to be comfortable, you either need to lay off the cookies, or something else is wrong. :grin2:

[jsmit86]

I usually put it at about 78, but with all of the issues, wanted to see if it could cool the house to 72 or so... no dice...

My neighbor has a similar size house next door, new construction very similar to mine. He has a 5 ton Lennox. House was 66 degrees when I went over there. (This was just after the install, and I think the neighbor was just testing it, not planning to hang meat in there:grin2: )

While I don't often want to keep the house at 72, it would seem that on a 88 degree day outside, the system ought to be able to get there.

[jsmit86]

An update... system is running fine, and Carrier is picking up my out of pocket expenses for the coil replacement labor, and the previous refrigerant fill. Total of almost $$$$.

I am happy that Carrier stepped up and is sending me a check. I expect that the new tin plated coil should be bore durable. Kudos to Carrier for standing behind their product.