ice rink coach breaths in amonia from leak

[lortech]

All I can say is wow. I know the stuff is dangerous, but did not know it can lead to life disabling injuries.

My question is, do these ammonia alarms respond to ammonia by detecting it in the air? Had she not walks to the back of the rink she would have never been exposed. Shouldn't there be a PA announcement to tell people to move away from the building?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/leak+Olympian+Karen+Magnussen+life/6567620/story.html

[beshvac]

Every chemical (medicines, ammonia, cleaners, propane, etc) affects people differently. ammonia is very dangerous in large quantities....ammonia driven plants in our area have to have state emergency plans for large quantity releases....

I had an employee once that was allergic to propane...........one of the guys took a leaking tank off the fork lift and set it outside.....the wind must have blown it thru the door as the employee was talking to me, then her eyes went blank and I had to catch her before she hit the ground. Then I find out...yes propane does this to me....I'll be alright (after the paramedics came).....

She lives in a house heated by propane.......:gah:

[Six]

Amonia is a good cheap refrigerant. Its unrelated but I remember when a truck filled anhydrous amonia drove off a over pass landing on the road below. Happened in Houston in the 70s.

[lortech]

If you happen across some one unconscious or lying on the ground, evaluate the enviroment.

I heard of a case of five bodies laying next to a power pole with one live wire on the ground. Seems that as each car stopped, the drive got out to help, only to get electrocuted.

This officers should have been training to not to go into a cloud of vapors to help the unconscious victim on the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzObhHet9QM

As a safety measure, do your employers that dispense ammonia require to carry a respirator and suit when servicing ammonia refrigeration systems?.

[Phase Loss]

I've worked in ammonia plants...the smallest leak is hard to approach.

I couldn't imagine walking into a cloud of ammonia. That's a death sentence.

The smell of ammonia will naturally make you want to head in the opposite direction.

it literally takes away your ability to breath and makes your eyes, arm pits, and balls burn.

[foxtrot]

Ammonia is a good cheap refrigerant. Its unrelated but I remember when a truck filled anhydrous ammonia drove off a over pass landing on the road below. Happened in Houston in the 70s.

My mom was a radiologist at a hospital nearby (2 miles) when the ammonia truck fell off the side of the 610 to 59 ramp at 11:18am May 11, 1976 and landed on the main lanes of 59. She remembers the loud speakers telling everyone to shut the windows, doors and turn off the A/C, all ventilation and prepare for victims of a chemical incident.

She said the worst part was when the victims came in and they were "off-gassing" the ammonia in the ER and x-ray rooms and how it was almost impossible to breath.

They found out after the indecent that the truck driver had been told just after hooking up the tank of ammonia to his truck that his wife was going into labor with his first child. So as he and the other victims left, his daughter came into this world. That's a heck of thing for her to have to think about every birthday.


Flip to page 12 it has a picture just minutes after it happened from a tall building nearby showing the immense vapor cloud

http://www.oscarmail.net/houstonfreeways/ebook/Loop610_150ppi.pdf

Shows the structural damage to the freeway after the accident.

http://www.chron.com/news/gallery/1976-ammonia-truck-disaster-16982/photo-1207988.php

[Six]

My mom was a radiologist at a hospital nearby (2 miles) when the ammonia truck fell off the side of the 610 to 59 ramp at 11:18am May 11, 1976 and landed on the main lanes of 59. She remembers the loud speakers telling everyone to shut the windows, doors and turn off the A/C, all ventilation and prepare for victims of a chemical incident.

She said the worst part was when the victims came in and they were "off-gassing" the ammonia in the ER and x-ray rooms and how it was almost impossible to breath.

They found out after the indecent that the truck driver had been told just after hooking up the tank of ammonia to his truck that his wife was going into labor with his first child. So as he and the other victims left, his daughter came into this world. That's a heck of thing for her to have to think about every birthday.


Flip to page 12 it has a picture just minutes after it happened from a tall building nearby showing the immense vapor cloud

http://www.oscarmail.net/houstonfreeways/ebook/Loop610_150ppi.pdf

Shows the structural damage to the freeway after the accident.

http://www.chron.com/news/gallery/1976-ammonia-truck-disaster-16982/photo-1207988.php


Ive been told that accident was the last straw so to spaek for hazardous cargo routes being allowed to go through populated areas.

New strict regulations were enacted soon after that still exist today.

[Texas-Tech]

I remember when that happened.

[AC5096]

Back in 1975 we had an ammonia leak that killed the trees around the freezer where I worked.

I learned at a young age never trust corporate America when they tell you it's a safe enviroment to work in.

They were more concerned with contaminated product, than the employees.

[zw17]

To give those of you that have never experienced pure uncut ammonia an idea of how powerful it is...

I sat in a classroom where the teacher put one drop on the table up front and that 25'x50' room was cleared within 30sec. You couldn't breath.

[benny42]

To give those of you that have never experienced pure uncut ammonia an idea of how powerful it is...

I sat in a classroom where the teacher put one drop on the table up front and that 25'x50' room was cleared within 30sec. You couldn't breath.

Ok, its bad, but have you worked around it or on a system charged with it?

[Phase Loss]

you develop a tolerance to the small leaks where it's uncomfortable around it, but you can hang in there.

[Six]

One of my customers has an ammonia plant. Their onsight facillities are pretty sharp and keep that monstrosity running.

Its all steel and rust.

I used to do a lot of process plant work and their ammonoa plants were stainless.

[benny42]

you develop a tolerance to the small leaks where it's uncomfortable around it, but you can hang in there.

:ditto: so true

[uniservice]

Some of the older ammonia mechanics built up a tolerance for the stuff. When I was gophering for them, I was used as a leak detector as I would come out of the area bawling and snotting, while they wouldn't even smell the stuff. I think they used it as aftershave.

[zw17]

Ok, its bad, but have you worked around it or on a system charged with it?

Yes, I have worked in ammonia plants, not on ammonia systems but around it. I have zero desire To be a ammonia tech.

[Nh3 Refrigeration Tech]

To give those of you that have never experienced pure uncut ammonia an idea of how powerful it is...

I sat in a classroom where the teacher put one drop on the table up front and that 25'x50' room was cleared within 30sec. You couldn't breath.


For someone like myself who has worked with Ammonia for 30+ years, will you please tell me what "Pure Uncut Ammonia" is?

[Nh3 Refrigeration Tech]

Ok, its bad, but have you worked around it or on a system charged with it?


I've worked as an Ammonia Technician for 30+ years, to answer your question, yes it's dangerous and very harmful. But with the Experienced Ammonia Techs paired with good PM's on your Refrigeration System, leaks are few and far between (or at least they should be) and when a leak occurs unless the PPM exceeds 25 parts per 8 hour shift (OSHA PEL) your not in tremendous danger. That's not to say that you won't smell it and feel its effects, but your safe to work in it. The IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health) for Ammonia is 300ppm, easy to say that if you walk into a room that's 300ppm without proper PPE, you WONT be walking out.

[lortech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNkdAs1e7Cw






All I can say is wow. I know the stuff is dangerous, but did not know it can lead to life disabling injuries.

My question is, do these ammonia alarms respond to ammonia by detecting it in the air? Had she not walks to the back of the rink she would have never been exposed. Shouldn't there be a PA announcement to tell people to move away from the building?

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/leak+Olympian+Karen+Magnussen+life/6567620/story.html

[Rodney28334]

About 2 years ago we had several bad tornados touch down in central NC. One hit my girlfriends' sisters house in Dunn a few miles from my place so we headed straight there. We had to run the last half mile as roads were impassable to cars. A foodlion distribution warehouse was about a halfmile on the other side of her house and took a direct hit. We couldnt see a cloud per se but the smell was so pungent it was tough to breath (especially after all that running, being out of shape) Eye and sinus irritation came soon after. 30 minutes later after the air was better a police car came by telling people to evacuate, but everyone stuck together making sure everyone in the neighborhood was accounted for. I couldnt imagine being in an enclosed area with that mess unprotected.

[benny42]

I've worked as an Ammonia Technician for 30+ years, to answer your question, yes it's dangerous and very harmful. But with the Experienced Ammonia Techs paired with good PM's on your Refrigeration System, leaks are few and far between (or at least they should be) and when a leak occurs unless the PPM exceeds 25 parts per 8 hour shift (OSHA PEL) your not in tremendous danger. That's not to say that you won't smell it and feel its effects, but your safe to work in it. The IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health) for Ammonia is 300ppm, easy to say that if you walk into a room that's 300ppm without proper PPE, you WONT be walking out.

I agree and know what you are saying. My sarcastic comments were concerning the "one drop of pure uncut..." statement above.
I've been in several ammonia plants and have a healthy fear of its effects. BUT... there is some B.S. slinging thru here.

[zw17]

For someone like myself who has worked with Ammonia for 30+ years, will you please tell me what "Pure Uncut Ammonia" is?

The ammonia that you buy at the grocery store for cleaning purposes is what about 5%?

What percentage is refrigeration ammonia?

[Nh3 Refrigeration Tech]

The ammonia that you buy at the grocery store for cleaning purposes is what about 5%?

What percentage is refrigeration ammonia?

First question; Yes you are correct, anywhere from 5 to 10% is accurate.

Second question; R-717 (Ammonia used for Refrigeration) is typically close to 99.98%.

[zw17]

First question; Yes you are correct, anywhere from 5 to 10% is accurate.

Second question; R-717 (Ammonia used for Refrigeration) is typically close to 99.98%.

To answer your question...

Between 90-95% purity is the difference between uncut ammonia and the cut version that 99.9999% of the people on this site are accustomed to, and for those of us not used to R-717 it f'ing stinks and makes breathing uncomfortable.

;)

[bigtime]

it f'ing stinks and makes breathing uncomfortable.

;)


Almost an understatement. :cheers:

That stuff will make you jump off a roof or run through a block wall to get away from it. Its a great refrigerent but I cant see it ever being used anywhere other than industrial plants.

[indy2000]

It aint that bad.
stings a little, you learn to breathe shallow........
You get used to it.

[icexprt]

When I was 18 I was working one night in a small equipment room on a Vogt P-24 ice machine charged with 800 lbs. of ammonia when there was a sudden release of it's entire charge in liquid form from the bottom of the receiver. Getting out of the room from where I was located was tricky. I had to step up onto an I-beam about 2 feet above the floor, walk the beam to the corner of the room, turn the corner, step over some piping, duck under some piping, and walk the beam another 12 or so feet to the doorway to get out. I have no recollection of how I made it out of there! There is a gap in my memory between the release of ammonia, until I reached the doorway? I remember feeling relief when I exited the door, thinking I would be able to breathe finally, only to realize that I still couldn't! I spent a week and a half in ICU and another week in a regular hospital room. The doctors said if I had been a smoker I wouldn't have made it.....I didn't tell them I'd been smoking a year and a half at that point! I still work with ammonia, I just have a lot of respect for it and always make sure everything is double checked and nothing is left to chance!

[zw17]

When I was 18 I was working one night in a small equipment room on a Vogt P-24 ice machine charged with 800 lbs. of ammonia when there was a sudden release of it's entire charge in liquid form from the bottom of the receiver. Getting out of the room from where I was located was tricky. I had to step up onto an I-beam about 2 feet above the floor, walk the beam to the corner of the room, turn the corner, step over some piping, duck under some piping, and walk the beam another 12 or so feet to the doorway to get out. I have no recollection of how I made it out of there! There is a gap in my memory between the release of ammonia, until I reached the doorway? I remember feeling relief when I exited the door, thinking I would be able to breathe finally, only to realize that I still couldn't! I spent a week and a half in ICU and another week in a regular hospital room. The doctors said if I had been a smoker I wouldn't have made it.....I didn't tell them I'd been smoking a year and a half at that point! I still work with ammonia, I just have a lot of respect for it and always make sure everything is double checked and nothing is left to chance!

Wow, that is nuts. Glad you are OK.

[icexprt]

Yea,thanks!.....I'm glad I made it out of that ordeal ok....I don't know what the concentration of ammonia was by ppm in the room that night, heck I was just a kid at the time! I just know that there must have been someone looking out for me from above that night!