Getting screwed on my Space Pak

[veryfrustrated]

So here's were I am at and I desperately need help from some professionals. In the fall I decided to have central air put in to my 50’s cape cod style house. The attic wasn’t finished yet and I figured winter would be a good time to get it done. I had heard of Space Pak and after discussing this with the HVAC contractor I decided to use went for it. I especially liked how it wouldn’t take up much room in my attic which I plan to make into a bedroom. So install goes great, I pay the HVAC guy, turn it on, everything seems to work fine, when its cold out. Summer comes and it starts to get hot. We turn on the air and while it seems to function well, it doesn’t get the house very cold, not much below 75 degrees. I figure it must not have had enough R22 shot into the system and I call my HVAC guy, after a few months of calls and one call back, I have given up on him yesterday when the system pretty much stopped working, air was very slowly coming out of the unit, it appears the unit had froze up, I have turned it off now until it gets repaired. I called another HVAC guy who came this morning, who doesn’t work with the Space Pak much, and he told us that there was an air flow problem and the unit was too big for the house, is a 3.5 ton. We contacted Space Pak for one of their approved installers and they are coming by tomorrow to give us an estimate. We have 17 outlets with this 3.5 ton unit, which I understand is not enough. Also all of the vent lines have those filters in them to reduce the pressure of the system. What do you think I am in for? Do you think adding 5 or so more vent lines will do the trick? Or am I screwed and need to buy a smaller AC unit and air handler? Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

Jeff

[HeyBob]

The first guy should have done a load calc on your home to determine the proper size needed.

Sounds like you might also have a leak. How many estimates did you get? Sounds like you might not have hired an honest contractor.

[amd]

Adding "vent lines" should help with airflow if there is not enough, but it won't do anything for short cycling and dehumidification if it's oversized.

Filters restrict airflow.

This is not coming from a "pro".

[veryfrustrated]

Well, i had a hard time getting anyone to call me back, and he came highly reccomended from a freind of my fathers, so I thought I was ok, looks like I was wrong. What type of leak might I have? The freon level was where it was supposed to be this morning and it was filled about 6 months ago. And Amd, what do you mean by vent lines?

[acoolguy]

You need six unrestricted outlets per ton. Each outlet should blow 40 CFM so you need 21 minimum. If any outlets have a restrictor like the bathroom, then you'll need to make that up with another outlet.

There is only one filter and that should be in the hall cieling, be sure its clean and not the high efficency filter, that restricts air flow too much.

Each run should have a muffler just before the outlet, I think this is what your calling a filter.

Refrigerant charge is important, a liquid line sight glass should be located at the blower unit. and the unit should be charged by subcooling not superheat.

These units are different than normal A/C, Ask your contractor if they are capable of servicing "high velocity" Air Conditioning.

[RoBoTeq]

Boy did I misunderstand what this thread was going to be about.

[r22jjc]

any chance your return air duct got damaged?if you have had carpenters,telephone,cable,or any others up there working they might have found your return duct to be a handi place to sit,walk or stand on.could be where you cant see it too easy.what type of filter are you useing? has any thing changed since it got put in that would restrict return air flow?doors walls ect.

[veryfrustrated]

Hi guys,

thanks for your replies. No changes since it was installed and the return is undamaged, its easy to see it in the attic, the system never worked right from when i first turned it on a couple months ago. As for the filter, it is a metal mesh filter that i assume came with the return vent.

Acoolguy, all of the runs have the mufflers, but they also all have the restricters in them, different sizes in different ones.

The HVAC contractor coming today was given to us by Space Pak as one of thier certified installers, i figured that would be best.

Oh and I checked my receipt from the AC install, it says 3 ton, not 3.5, and the unit outside clearly has 3.5 ton on the label. I'm starting to realize why this guy won't call me back, he must know he screwed up good.

jeff

[acoolguy]

If the Blower unit is also 3-1/2 ton, you may only need more outlets.
Let us know what the Space Pak guy says.

[Freezeking2000]

I would remove every restrictor for sure than add a few drops. The temp of 75 is not bad if it is dry.

[veryfrustrated]

Well the blower is part # 3642D which is for either 3 or 3 1/2 ton per the space pak website. The hvac guy couldn't make it today and will be coming by on thursday, so i'll let you all know. My biggest thing is I don't want to to freeze up again, can i cause any damage by letting it freeze up? Right now I only have 3 runs in the attic, I was thinking of upping it to 6 and then adding one run in the kitchen and maybe 2 more into the basement giving me 23 total which should give me some room to run a restrictor plate here or there, but i want to see what the professional say first. What would be the downsides to running a 3 1/2 ton system in a smaller house, even with enough vent runs? Thanks in advance, you guys have been very helpful

[coolwhip]

There should be a freeze switch on it that will break the condenser circuit. That is if your installer even put it in.

Might be a Unico system Im thinking of though. Good luck and please let us know what you find out.

[veryfrustrated]

Where might i find this freeze switch? Do you think it would be ok to run the A/C if I removed all of the restrictors out of the vents? What kind of damage could I cause by running it?

[veryfrustrated]

Well, i had the HVAC contractor who is certified by Space Pak out at my house today. He did what I would have done, removed all of the restrictor plates from the vent lines and recommended installing some additional vent lines. He then checked the temp's coming out of the lines and he said they were all ok. Says the unit is little big for the house, but it should work ok for now and not freeze up anymore, but suggest that i install more vent runs, as suggested by some if this site's members. I have 17 runs, and he said if he did it, it would problaby have about 25 runs, but anything over 21 should be fine. I found a 5-pack kit for 5 runn(w/o the ducting) at acdirect.com and also a 100'foot roll of ducting. Hey, do i need the special tools for the clip and cutting the holes in the plenum?

Thanks everyone

Jeff

[acoolguy]

Be careful with 25 runs.
If you reduce the velocity, (260cfm / ton) x 3.5 ton = 910cfm total.
910cfm/25runs = 36cfm per outlet.
Your larger room will not "asperate" (cool air mixing with room air). thus causing another misterious problem.
This why restrictors are only used in small rooms like a bathroom.

[pm4589]

LMFAO!!

RoBo

[coolmist]

We install Unico systems quite a bit. You need to have the certified installer add the additional outlets for you. These
high velocity systems work great if they are done correctly.
You need to have "Big Bad Leroy Brown" visit the guy that hacked that existing system in and see if you can recover some
money to have it fixed right.

[veryfrustrated]

Thanks coolmist,

Yeah the certifed guy who came didn't show any interest in getting the job for more vents installed, he didn't give us an estmate or even tell us about how much it would cost. In fact he told my wife( i was at work so i couldn't ask him what i would have) that we should put them in ourselves. I don't think he has time for such a small job. I'm hands on guy and know which end of the screwdriver to hold :) so I'm sure adding a few runs myself won't be problem. Do you think i need there hole cutter for the plenum or can i use my holesaw?, also they list a $40 clip spreader tool, it sounds like I may not need these tools, but i wanna besure before i put my order in. Any other good places to by Spacepak stuff from?


Originally posted by coolmist
We install Unico systems quite a bit. You need to have the certified installer add the additional outlets for you. These
high velocity systems work great if they are done correctly.
You need to have "Big Bad Leroy Brown" visit the guy that hacked that existing system in and see if you can recover some
money to have it fixed right.

[dchvac]

How hot is it outside?

[veryfrustrated]

Im in central NJ, its been high 80's to low 90's and very very humid these past few days. It has now been able to get down to 72 in the house, but if you set it on 71, it goes up to 73, weird.

[swnoel]

Lowest bidder got the job???

[veryfrustrated]

no, that was not the case, (as i mentioned earlier in this post) he was a freind of my fathers freind, and I thought I was safe. Oh well life-lesson well learned. Around me there are so many bum "contractors" that I figured at least this time I had a pretty good referral. Last time i had some work done, i used somebosy from the phone book and was far from happy(chimeny rebuild). This is why I try to do as much myself as possible, at least then i know what, if any, shortcuts were taken instead of being surprised down the road. Oh yeah, and I am going to do whatever i can to recoup my losses from this guy, and let others know what a crooked business man he is.