How to heat/cool a dog daycare room?

[BoCRon]

We are currently in the midst of updating our kennel. I need to heat/cool a room where the dogs stay in crates during nap time and occasionally overnight. The room is 11 feet wide by 28 feet long, so just over 300 square feet.
A traditional system has proven too pricey (about $ to do the entire building, since if we are going to put that in we'll go ahead and remove the PTAC units currently in use in the rest of the kennel and do the entire building).
So we need to do either another PTAC unit, which I'm hesitant to do since the 3 I have aren't my favorite things. They are unsightly and the thermostats leave much to be desired. I'll walk in the room and the wall thermometer will read that the room is 65 degrees, I'll have the unit set for 70 on cool and it will be blasting away!
Anyway a mini-split seems to be my best option. The problem is that mini-splits aren't a common thing around here (Georgia, just north of Atlanta) and I have only found 2 places that would quote me a price.
According to some online calculators I need at least 10,000 BTUs which puts me in the 12,000 BTU units.
The quotes I've gotten from the 2 local companies were both above $ for a Mr. Slim. Both guys told me that they don't stock the units and were quoting me a price from a spec sheet. I have found similar units online for about $.
If I buy one online, is there a way to pay for a heat/air pro to install it, or is this considered rude? I know I need a 3 inch hole and the electrician to wire for it.

[beenthere]

Prices aren't allowed.

[Mr Bill]

If I buy one online, is there a way to pay for a heat/air pro to install it, or is this considered rude? I know I need a 3 inch hole and the electrician to wire for it.

I don't know about the mfg. of the units your looking to buy online, but most have a policy, if the unit is not purchased online by a professional contractor and installed by them, there is no warranty, might check.

Here's an example: scroll down and read about warranties.
http://www.furnacecompare.com/consumer_direct.html

[ga-hvac-tech]

Read your question about heating and cooling a pet area; here are a couple of thoughts:

1) IMO the larger issue here would be dust, dander, and hair. The PTAC's and mini's will have air filter issues (they are not designed for serious air filtration issues).

2) For long term use and reliability, I would suggest looking at the installed (ducted) conventional system, with the vents in the ceiling. This way the dirt content which gets into the system will be lowered, hence less maintenance issues. From being in this business for years and years, one can tell how many pets are in a house (and to a point what kind) by how dirty the air filter is.

I did some remodeling work a LONG time ago on a veterinary clinic, with kenneling services. The building was designed with a separate heat and AC system for the kennel, installed as noted above. The filter was a heavy duty unit, and they said they changed it more often than the rest of the building's filters.

I read you are in the Atlanta area; specifically N of the city. My company is in the area, you can find the Email address in my profile (click on my screen name).

And yes, Mr Bill is correct: Most ALL manufacturers of heating and AC equipment state a policy of no warranty unless the equipment is purchased and installed by a licensed PRO. The reason is installation is the key to proper operation and life. A handy-man install will kinda work for a short time... with lots of maintenance. The overall cost (equipment, bad install, then maintenance and shorter life) will be LARGER than a proper install by a qualified and licensed contractor.

[Mr Bill]

I read you are in the Atlanta area; specifically N of the city. My company is in the area, you can find the Email address in my profile (click on my screen name).

And Mr. Bill highly highly recommends ga-hvac-tech, trust me he has a clue. :yes:

[ga-hvac-tech]

And Mr. Bill highly highly recommends ga-hvac-tech, trust me he has a clue. :yes:

THX Bill...

How are things down triple H way (Hot, Humid, Houston)? We had some cool weather after I was down there... just warming up again.

[Mr Bill]

THX Bill...

How are things down triple H way (Hot, Humid, Houston)? We had some cool weather after I was down there... just warming up again.

We have had some awesome weather "little warm" for the past week, some not a cloud in the sky days, the humidity has picked up a tad, but it's still good.

[energy_rater_La]

a few years ago I did some work for a lady who had previously
hired me to over see the efficiency of her new home.
she called me to see about the vet clinic. we cut her
utility bills..but more importantly..improved the comfort.

we didn't address the back portion (on seperate unit) where
pets are borded & groomed, other than sealing ducts.
for us the problem was the high heat gain from the
minimally insulated, vented attic and the amount of
heat genetated by grooming & bording of 20+ animals.

the future plan is to make the attic unvented with 6+ inches
of open cell foam. this will remove the heat gain from
the roof, and put ducts in semi conditioned attic.
this area currently has the newest hvac system (6 years old)
with ducts, heating equipment & water heater in attic.

the improvements to the front part will completely pay
for themselves next year in utility savings. then
they plan to foam attic of rear (addition) where pets
are borded/groomed.

rather than upsizing or changing equipment there
will be a humidistat added to help control humidity.
also filters will be upgraded to 4" pleated media filters.
IF this area required fresh air to maintain a positive
pressuer on the area we will install a 12x12 filter
back grill with ducted to return air with barometric
damper.

none of the hvac equipment was changed, contrary
to what contractors recommended. instead the
ducts AND the building was air sealed.

sometimes it is a combination of issues and not
just one thing that needs to be improved.

I would also recommend giving ga-hvac-tech
a call.

best of luck.

[BoCRon]

I read you are in the Atlanta area; specifically N of the city. My company is in the area, you can find the Email address in my profile (click on my screen name).


Cool, I will contact you during the work week.

As to warranty, I don't purchase anything based on warranties anymore. In my experience of 20+ years of homeownership they are not worth the paper they are printed on. Either they find a loophole out of it or the item in question breaks down the day after the warranty expires (leading me to believe they structure the timing of the warranty accordingly).

After looking into the situation we have decided to leave the PTAC units upstairs as is. Ducting the upstairs will require putting vents in the floor which is problematic in that we don't want holes in the floor since that would require cutting the rubber flooring, plus holes in the floor aren't good with dogs running around (both for pee issues and footing issues).
Once the new area is finished, we will be using the upstairs room for training classes only so the PTAC units should be sufficient. I can leave them off and turn them on to heat or cool the training room in advance of a class. So really the only area I need to heat/cool is the new area which is only about 350 square feet. I'm not sure a traditional unit exists that will deal with that small of a load.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Cool, I will contact you during the work week.

As to warranty, I don't purchase anything based on warranties anymore. In my experience of 20+ years of homeownership they are not worth the paper they are printed on. Either they find a loophole out of it or the item in question breaks down the day after the warranty expires (leading me to believe they structure the timing of the warranty accordingly).

After looking into the situation we have decided to leave the PTAC units upstairs as is. Ducting the upstairs will require putting vents in the floor which is problematic in that we don't want holes in the floor since that would require cutting the rubber flooring, plus holes in the floor aren't good with dogs running around (both for pee issues and footing issues).
Once the new area is finished, we will be using the upstairs room for training classes only so the PTAC units should be sufficient. I can leave them off and turn them on to heat or cool the training room in advance of a class. So really the only area I need to heat/cool is the new area which is only about 350 square feet. I'm not sure a traditional unit exists that will deal with that small of a load.

Nice weather this afternoon, hope to finish the service business and get a little play time in... :)

Most heating and AC equipment (installed split systems) comes with a 5 yr warranty, which is extended to 10 yrs if the homeowner registers the equipment online within 30 or 60 days of install (time is brand specific). Goodman/Amana (one of my brands) offers a 10 yr labor warranty for a modest cost. As to whether it is a good investment/value... depends on how well the equipment is maintained. Poor maintenance (and poor install.. cheap job) leads to more issues. Labor warranty is not that good if there are minimal issues... however loose a compressor in the outdoor AC unit and you pretty well got your $$$ back.

Might want to think some more about the air filtration issues we discussed. Pets tend to shed, and long-haired pets shed a bunch. Also pets tend to have more dirt around them. As noted in an earlier post, an experienced heat and air person can tell how many pets, and to a degree what kind of pets one has, by the condition of the air filters. The filter systems in mini's and PTAC's are not designed for that level of dirt/hair. If you choose to keep the PTAC's... my advise would be to clean the filters at least once a month. Clean equipment equals lower operating costs and longer life.
Something to think about: AC load on the main floor of a two level structure is affected by the temp on the upper floor. If the upper floor is left 'hot'... it costs more to cool the lower floor... just the way they work.

Agree with the floor vents... puppies tend to dig things up... including floor vents (have seen this numerous times); and of course there is the liquid issue... :whistle:

How about this: It is Springtime, have you had your spring AC maintenance done yet? If not, how about lets schedule a call for me to come out and clean up/tune up for the AC season... and we can talk about needs and issues for the pet areas as well as the other areas.

At the vet clinic years ago, they had a separate heat and air system for the examination and surgery area, with special air filters for the surgery area. That was not required, they just chose to do it.

Will look for your Email, have a GREAT weekend.

John/GA