it's not!!!

[beachtech]

The tool...

It's the tech!!!

many pages here

many threads here

many repeats!!!

what's the best this or that.


put the best tools known to man in a 'tech's' hands that hasn't the experience or the willingness to accept the challenge...

you've nothing more than a pile of the crappiest tools


:whistle:

[tarheel_tech]

Agree

[jnsrose]

Disagree, You have a crappy tech with some fine ass tools.

[Some Dude]

Timmy is full of crap, im a terrible tech with odd lot tools but i still change parts until it runs.

[jpsmith1cm]

The only tools that I carry are jumper wires.

[coolwhip]

The only tools that I carry are jumper wires.

A good meter, 5 in 1 screwdriver, and jumpers is a pretty good start.

[jpsmith1cm]

A good meter, 5 in 1 screwdriver, and jumpers is a pretty good start.

I only need one jumper wire.

I jumper controls until the compressor starts then walk away.

I'm the cheapest and fastest tech at the company.

:whistle::angel:

[chuckcrj]

Leatherman, don't forget the Leatherman.

[chuckcrj]

The tool...

It's the tech!!!

many pages here

many threads here

many repeats!!!

what's the best this or that.


put the best tools known to man in a 'tech's' hands that hasn't the experience or the willingness to accept the challenge...

you've nothing more than a pile of the crappiest tools


:whistle:
Yep.

My coworker was working on the same roof as I was and told me he was getting a SC reading of negative 50! On his SMAN3 digital gauges.

I walk over and see that he has his high side hose on the discharge line and the temp clamp also on the discharge line!

Garbage in, garbage out...

[Some Dude]

Of course my cordless impact does make it easier to pull chillers apart.

[jpsmith1cm]

Of course my cordless impact does make it easier to pull chillers apart.

Whaddya takin em apart for, dumazz?

Yer sposed at be fixin em

[ga-hvac-tech]

Yep.

My coworker was working on the same roof as I was and told me he was getting a SC reading of negative 50! On his SMAN3 digital gauges.

I walk over and see that he has his high side hose on the discharge line and the temp clamp also on the discharge line!

Garbage in, garbage out...

Just my :.02:

These new electronic tools are GREAT for ease of work, as long as folks know the "WHY's". IMO the REAL issue is the newbee does not understand the WHY'S of how refrigeration and AC and heat works. If they did, they would not be standing there scratching their heads... unless they are having a brain-f*rt day... like we all do sometimes.

So now we have a question: Do we teach the newbee only what is necessary for him to run calls and make $$$ (if this, then that... with no understanding of why)... or do we take the extra time (which costs extra $$$) to teach the newbee enough (the why's of how things work, so they can think well enough to actually diagnose, rather than stuff parts at the problem until it is fixed) for them to become GREAT techs???

[chuckcrj]

Just my :.02:

These new electronic tools are GREAT for ease of work, as long as folks know the "WHY's". IMO the REAL issue is the newbee does not understand the WHY'S of how refrigeration and AC and heat works. If they did, they would not be standing there scratching their heads... unless they are having a brain-f*rt day... like we all do sometimes.

So now we have a question: Do we teach the newbee only what is necessary for him to run calls and make $$$ (if this, then that... with no understanding of why)... or do we take the extra time (which costs extra $$$) to teach the newbee enough (the why's of how things work, so they can think well enough to actually diagnose, rather than stuff parts at the problem until it is fixed) for them to become GREAT techs???

I agree.

I have nothing against using the best tools, or digital meter, or digital gauges. There has to be an understanding of the basics before the good tools can be fully utilized.

[marter]

Leatherman, don't forget the Leatherman.

dont forget the SOG

:cheers:

[chuckcrj]

dont forget the SOG

:cheers:

Yes, I am looking at getting the Power Assist model. Is it worth it?

[jpsmith1cm]

Yes, I am looking at getting the Power Assist model. Is it worth it?

I have the power lock.

Not sure if it is the same, but I won't be without it.

[waterpirate]

So now we have a question: Do we teach the newbee only what is necessary for him to run calls and make $$$ (if this, then that... with no understanding of why)... or do we take the extra time (which costs extra $$$) to teach the newbee enough (the why's of how things work, so they can think well enough to actually diagnose, rather than stuff parts at the problem until it is fixed) for them to become GREAT techs???[/QUOTE]


Training and teaching an apprentice pays money not cost money. If you do not train the theory of why they are nothing more than extensions of your brain.
Training them makes them your equal in time. A lot of people do not train because they want to hold apprentices back so their knowledge base is never threatned. I live for the days when my apprentices tell me no, explain why, and they are right!
Eric

[jpsmith1cm]

Training and teaching an apprentice pays money not cost money. If you do not train the theory of why they are nothing more than extensions of your brain.
Training them makes them your equal in time. A lot of people do not train because they want to hold apprentices back so their knowledge base is never threatned. I live for the days when my apprentices tell me no, explain why, and they are right!
Eric

Very well said.

:cheers:

[Some Dude]

Whaddya takin em apart for, dumazz?

Yer sposed at be fixin em

Im really just cleaning them, ya dont think they let me really work on them do you?

[Pascone10]

Yes, I am looking at getting the Power Assist model. Is it worth it?

Yes, yes it is:grin2:

[koolkahuna]

I only need one jumper wire.

I jumper controls until the compressor starts then walk away.

I'm the cheapest and fastest tech at the company.

:whistle::angel:

Sadly others don't see that as a joke but an option.
I followed up on a tech that had jumpered out the centrifugal switch on an inducer blower motor on a HUGE makeup air unit. Motor had failed, gas ignited, unit cratered. Must've been some mushroom cloud.

[beachtech]

So now we have a question: Do we teach the newbee only what is necessary for him to run calls and make $$$ (if this, then that... with no understanding of why)... Eric


every residential business nowadays.... this is thier practice, thier objective, thier only concern! make money. they don't care what you know, so long as you are making them a ton of money.

this is why there are so many one man bands in our industry, and rising at an alarming rate ;)

company owners are complaining about some kinda technician shortage SMH

[chuckcrj]

every residential business nowadays.... this is thier practice, thier objective, thier only concern! make money. they don't care what you know, so long as you are making them a ton of money.

this is why there are so many one man bands in our industry, and rising at an alarming rate ;)

company owners are complaining about some kinda technician shortage SMH

EVERY residential business???

[beachtech]

EVERY residential business???

sorry, %99.98

[Pascone10]

I agree with what beachy is saying.. Thats why I jumped to the commercial side. I hated being told I had to be a salesman.. Plus its a lot more challenging!

[JWB]

I think all resi companies are drinking the koolaid at some secret seminar. it is ridiculous the stuff they say that we should be schlepping at maintenance time. I had a guy tell me I should suggest smoke detectors. I cleaned out my/his truck. now his useless son has it and he ofcourse can do no wrong. I am in resi hell right now just biding my time to get into a small shop or a full commercial. I like resi work, but hate the specter constantly hanging over my head of replace that system. we were flat out told the other day that we make no $$ in service. I asked if we might want to make some changes to make us more profitable? nope everything is fine.

Sorry beach, hijacked the thread. one of out worst guys used to tell customers he had a $600 tool for clearing their drainline.......this same guy told us he had a 60% failure rate on minisplits he installed........but he had a lot of pretty tools.....pretty misused. He went on the preferred tech program. Prefer he work at something else.......

[ga-hvac-tech]

Just my :.02:

These new electronic tools are GREAT for ease of work, as long as folks know the "WHY's". IMO the REAL issue is the newbee does not understand the WHY'S of how refrigeration and AC and heat works. If they did, they would not be standing there scratching their heads... unless they are having a brain-f*rt day... like we all do sometimes.

So now we have a question: Do we teach the newbee only what is necessary for him to run calls and make $$$ (if this, then that... with no understanding of why)... or do we take the extra time (which costs extra $$$) to teach the newbee enough (the why's of how things work, so they can think well enough to actually diagnose, rather than stuff parts at the problem until it is fixed) for them to become GREAT techs???


I agree.

I have nothing against using the best tools, or digital meter, or digital gauges. There has to be an understanding of the basics before the good tools can be fully utilized.


every residential business nowadays.... this is thier practice, thier objective, thier only concern! make money. they don't care what you know, so long as you are making them a ton of money.

this is why there are so many one man bands in our industry, and rising at an alarming rate ;)

company owners are complaining about some kinda technician shortage SMH

Yeah, it does appear the resi business is full of 'get rich folks'... However:

Most of the small shops I know are quality shops. They intentionally keep their overhead low (most work from home)... to allow the time to do a better job for competitive rates.

IMO the REAL problem is HO's that think they will get something for nothing... so they call the 'cheap guy'... read that the $29.95 tune-up. When it is done, they have been 'sold' something they do not need. Wonder how many times a person has to be taken before they use some common sense?

[waterpirate]

I have been told before that it must be nice to live in the world that I live in. I allways respond the same way, The way I live and work is a choice. Our business is limited in growth by the availability of skilled and liscensed techs. It was a choice we made to only do the work that we could intimately control the quality level on.

Other companies rush to meet demand and flood the field with unskilled, untooled, workers and they in essance are creating their own drama to be lived out in color. When you commit to only do a quality of work that is beyond what is called for you can focus on makeing it profitable, and efficient.

The reality is that we do not charge anymore than the hacks, but call backs are allmost non existant, and it allows us to offer a true 5 year unlimited parts and labor gaurantee on everything we do, from in house with no manufacturer support.

All that is possible by our senior people working hard to train their own replacements. This model makes for little or no drama in both commercial and residential work.
Eric

[beachtech]

IMO the REAL problem is HO's that think they will get something for nothing... so they call the 'cheap guy'... read that the $29.95 tune-up. When it is done, they have been 'sold' something they do not need. Wonder how many times a person has to be taken before they use some common sense?

the customer base has gone crazy, mostly IMHO due to the get rich quick companies.

the 29.95 tune up is bait and switch. ;)

i know first hand of a company that does that particular type of tune up plan. they are only doing it to get in the door. once the "tech" is in the door, the HO needs everything under the sun and beyond the other side of the moon, to the point that the customer may as well buy a new system...

[beachtech]

either way, the tools don't make the tech!!!

[jpsmith1cm]

IMO the REAL problem is HO's that think they will get something for nothing... so they call the 'cheap guy'... read that the $29.95 tune-up. When it is done, they have been 'sold' something they do not need. Wonder how many times a person has to be taken before they use some common sense?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[ga-hvac-tech]

IMO the REAL problem is HO's that think they will get something for nothing... so they call the 'cheap guy'... read that the $29.95 tune-up. When it is done, they have been 'sold' something they do not need. Wonder how many times a person has to be taken before they use some common sense?


the customer base has gone crazy, mostly IMHO due to the get rich quick companies.

the 29.95 tune up is bait and switch. ;)

i know first hand of a company that does that particular type of tune up plan. they are only doing it to get in the door. once the "tech" is in the door, the HO needs everything under the sun and beyond the other side of the moon, to the point that the customer may as well buy a new system...

I am not convinced the customer's attitude is a result of pressure sales firms... rather the customer (HO) truly thinks they can get something for nothing... and honestly does not understand that cheap and good do not come in the same package. The old saying 'you get what you pay for' is just not popular with the 'modern consumer'... regardless of whether it is true or not.

To me, someone that is too dumb to understand quality has a price... well they deserve to loose their $$$. Problem is... modern America is obsessed with 'cheap'... then they complain about poor quality... DUH...

[ga-hvac-tech]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Depends on which view is in your perceived interest... Whether or not it works.

[beachtech]

modern America is obsessed with 'cheap'... ...



modern america is obsessed with wealth. get rich quick and easy.

sell on price (cheap) and use cheap junk and labor to increase profit margain.

[ga-hvac-tech]

modern america is obsessed with wealth. get rich quick and easy.

sell on price (cheap) and use cheap junk and labor to increase profit margain.

Seems to me from a consumers view: It is all the same, just find the cheapest price and I win... no sense of quality or value.

[beachtech]

Seems to me from a consumers view: It is all the same, just find the cheapest price and I win... no sense of quality or value.

because if you don't know, it is all the same.

selling on low bid, you want them to think it's all the same.

selling on the fact that you do it better... you've got to sell yourself

which is easier ???

wouldn't have a wall of shame on this here site if quality where easy :)

[ga-hvac-tech]

because if you don't know, it is all the same.

selling on low bid, you want them to think it's all the same.

selling on the fact that you do it better... you've got to sell yourself

which is easier ???

wouldn't have a wall of shame on this here site if quality where easy :)

DOING quality work is easy...
Selling yourself as quality and justifying the $$$; well that is a skill.

My approach is to show the customer VALUE for their $$$'s.

[mrfixinthangz]

I would hope that great tools would help a tech work more efficiently and effectively sadly the greatest tool of all between the ears remains the one with the greatest potential wether maintaining, repairing, selling, managing or running a company.

[corny]

I went to a customers home once to fix a furnace.....called in to tell the shop I was going to get a part for the furnace and the service manager started screaming at me to not fix it and to tell them it was shot.

The customer could hear every word of that convo.....

I wouldnt mind doing residential again..... but I would want to do it for myself. You can have a succesfull business without having to resort to selling parts on every pm and selling changeouts on three and four year old equipment.

[rchristie420]

yeah im sure its every company out there but our once a week meeting always consists of how much we're supposed to make a call and what not. but i believe if they really need it ill let them know and kinda bug them about it and other things that arent as important or wont lead to bigger problems i just inform them about and let them decide. but when i rode along with a senior tech the first 2 months at the company i asked all kinds of questions even the ones i was pretty sure i asked just to make sure i was right . but thats the one things with still being a newbie is second guessing my self and having the confidence i fixed it properly :patriot:

[shrtct]

yeah im sure its every company out there but our once a week meeting always consists of how much we're supposed to make a call and what not. but i believe if they really need it ill let them know and kinda bug them about it and other things that arent as important or wont lead to bigger problems i just inform them about and let them decide. but when i rode along with a senior tech the first 2 months at the company i asked all kinds of questions even the ones i was pretty sure i asked just to make sure i was right . but thats the one things with still being a newbie is second guessing my self and having the confidence i fixed it properly :patriot:
I feel for you. I have worked for a company with the same goal! SELL SELL SELL. No matter what it takes. I did my ride along and was dumb founded that the senior tech did not have a clue on service work. But could sell anything to anyone. I was told that they did not mind sending a tech back to fix his mistakes, aslong as they had the sale. They are a flat rate. I spent 3 months using my personal car to do there installs to prove myself. To get that goal of a service truck and the things that was propmised. Got my truck finally and realised the boss was selling me snake oil. No longer there.

The hardest thing for most newbies is other techs not willing to to help them. The owners who see classes as a costly overhead. Not a money maker. I have learned to help others by Passing it forward. I work for a small company who has no problem sending me to class. I have taken more classes in the year and half being with this company then any other combind.

shrtct

[rchristie420]

yeah im looking into taking some classes in the fall after cooling season slows down and before heating season kicks up. i was lucky enough to have a good friend and a very good and wise tech to ride along with. they're a good few techs at my job that know what they're talking about and are very very good techs others are like your ride along tech, can sell ice to an eskimo but is asking for a backup tech when it comes to why the blower motor wont come on lol

[ryan1088]

The tool...

It's the tech!!!

many pages here

many threads here

many repeats!!!

what's the best this or that.


put the best tools known to man in a 'tech's' hands that hasn't the experience or the willingness to accept the challenge...

you've nothing more than a pile of the crappiest tools


:whistle:

Agreed but a fubar'd thermometer can ruin your day, week, month, and maybe year!!!

[MechAcc]

The only tools that I carry are jumper wires.

Now how you can you bypass a pressure line with jumper wires? LOL:grin2:

[rchristie420]

Now how you can you bypass a pressure line with jumper wires? LOL:grin2:

veryy carefully:cheers:

[hearthman]

In EMS we had a saying: "treat the patient-not the machine". This means you must know what you're looking at because often what some machine says does not match with what you're seeing or hearing from the patient. You must have that basis first in order to apply the technology. Or, in Timmie's case, just replace that corroded out condenser with another and I'll see you again in three years.

[DougK20]

I teach apprentices and I think the most over used tool is the cell phone. I love the call about negative superheat, the vacuum that cannot be achieved. You must have good tools to make good decisions. They don't have to be the most expensive, but you have to trust your tools. And you must keep the working good. I have seen people treat others tools like garbage and wonder why the original oil in the vacuum pump would be the reason it won't pull below 2000 Microns. I do also see contractors who will almost fire a person for a call back and hand them a harbor freight vacuum pump to work with.

[beachtech]

Agreed but a fubar'd thermometer can ruin your day, week, month, and maybe year!!!

that's the tool, or the guy using the tool???

military rule is, the person using the tool mmust be at least 10% smarter than the tool they are using :) just ask my dad ;)

[beachtech]

I wouldnt mind doing residential again..... but I would want to do it for myself. You can have a succesfull business without having to resort to selling parts on every pm and selling changeouts on three and four year old equipment.

you wouldn't get far.

but knock yourself out and let us all know how you do :)

however, i don't know any business (that's still in business) trying to sell new equipment on 3-4yr old equipment owners. that's bad business... 10yrs old, absolutely. do it all the time here.

[ga-hvac-tech]

you wouldn't get far.

but knock yourself out and let us all know how you do :)

however, i don't know any business (that's still in business) trying to sell new equipment on 3-4yr old equipment owners. that's bad business... 10yrs old, absolutely. do it all the time here.

I beg to differ...

One man show here, making good $$$, with control of my life. And I know a bunch of guys like me who are making good $$$ with control of their lives.

So I am sorry... but the idea that one has to sell endless 'fixes' to make it is just not really true... unless the co has too much overhead... which is the co's fault, not the customers.

Just my :.02: