Just got installed. Need your opinion.

[liftmys10]

First time user of this site. I need some professional opinion on this install i got at my house. I dont know anything about AC systems but have heard that Carrier is top notch and i told the installer that i want a 5 ton system. They had to take my old AC system out along with all the old ducts and vents. They put in all new vents, ducts, heater exhaust pipe, and they have the furnace suspended from the roof. It took 3 days.

Here are the model #'s of the system: Can you let me know if these parts all work together perfectly?

Carrier AC: 24ABR360A003310
Carrier Furnace: 58STX110-12122
Allstyle Coil: asfm6022a36evs r22 with TXV & AUX PAN

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148753.jpg
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148752.jpg
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148755.jpg
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148754.jpg
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148756.jpg

[Edited by liftmys10 on 06-17-2006 at 05:05 PM]

[RoBoTeq]

Shiny!

[BaldLoonie]

Do they have the main drain and emergency pan tied together into 1 PVC? If so, not good. Otherwise looks nice.

[plain spoken]

Verify your model numbers. If what you posted is correct, you have a furnace with a 3 ton blower. This will not work with a five ton unit. Apparently you had them install a larger unit than you had before, why? Was a load calculation performed or did you just want a larger unit?

[air2spare]

plenum coils dont last or holdup worth a crap

[beenthere]

With both drains hooked together, I sure hope they have a float switch, or water sensor hooked up.

[dougfamous]

Yes, double check your model numbers. The model for the furnace you posted is a 3 ton drive, but the furnace in the picture appears to be the wide cabinet/larger drive model. Make sure the drive will accomodate the 5 ton A/C. Otherwise, it looks OK.

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by plain spoken
Verify your model numbers. If what you posted is correct, you have a furnace with a 3 ton blower. This will not work with a five ton unit. Apparently you had them install a larger unit than you had before, why? Was a load calculation performed or did you just want a larger unit?

I verified the model # for all of the parts and they all match with what i have on my 1st thread. What should I do now that i know it's a 3 ton blower mated to a 5 ton AC? Will anything mess up? Do they both have to match? Im just triying to find out so when i call the company that installed it, i will sound like i know what im talking about. Yes, i did ask them to put a 5ton unit because the old AC system was designed without the consideration of a large addition to the house. So it wasn't enough.



Originally posted by air2spare
plenum coils dont last or holdup worth a crap
Can you explain more on what i should look out for? The guy said it has TXV and that is supposed to be good. I wonder if the coils i have are for a 5 ton unit. Anyone know?


Originally posted by BaldLoonie
Do they have the main drain and emergency pan tied together into 1 PVC? If so, not good. Otherwise looks nice.

Yes, it looks like they are hooked up together. I can probably run 2 seperate lines myself. But im not sure why that's a bad desgin. What will happen?

[Edited by liftmys10 on 06-17-2006 at 10:37 AM]

[billva]

a clog in the drain past the point where the secondary is attached would cause the emergency pan to over flow. as metioned above, make sure there is some kind of safety shut off switch in the emergency pan. i always recommend installing an E-Z trap with a float swich in the primary drain as well, you can't have too much insurance in an attic installation.


they forgot to turn the gas to the furnace on.

[liftmys10]

One more question. How can i find out if i have an up/down flow or a Horizontal left/right flow model? Does it say anywhere on the unit? From the looks of the "Carrier" logo, i might have a up/down flow model in a horizontal position in the attic. Will anything get messed up? Whats the main difference in these 2 units?

Thanks

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by liftmys10
From the looks of the "Carrier" logo, i might have a up/down flow model in a horizontal position in the attic. Will anything get messed up? Whats the main difference in these 2 units?Thanks

OMG!! Call the Company back asap!!http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/mrbillpro/images/1.gif

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by mrbillpro

OMG!! Call the Company back asap!!http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/mrbillpro/images/1.gif

Are you being serious? I am not familiar with this stuff.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by liftmys10

Originally posted by mrbillpro

OMG!! Call the Company back asap!!http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/mrbillpro/images/1.gif

Are you being serious? I am not familiar with this stuff.

O sorry just kidding. My guess would be if they had to turn those labels for different apps. you probably would have paid $200.00 more. :D

[seatonheating]

You got hacked dude. For one, they shouldn't be listening to you on sizing their unit. Secondly, that drain setup is a recipe for a nightmare. If they are not smart enough to do that properly I am really concerned about the rest of the install. I would give them a chance to make it right, but if they can't I would ask for some restitution so you can hire a different company to come out and fix everything.

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by mrbillpro

O sorry just kidding. My guess would be if they had to turn those labels for different apps. you probably would have paid $200.00 more. :D

You almost got me there :) I was just asking because on the carrier brochure on page 3, they show 2 seperate models with pictures for the downflow and horizontal flow models as seen here: http://www.lakesideservice.com/downloads/58sta.pdf

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by seatonheating
Secondly, that drain setup is a recipe for a nightmare.

This is true and something that needs to be addressed pretty soon, now I am not kidding here.

[HVAC/Stud]

Why do you ask all these questions now? Should have asked before signing a contract. Should have got at least 3 bids.

Each bid should have included a Manual J load calculation, Manual D duct plan and an ARI print out of matching coil, outdoor unit and furnace.

It’s a little late now to correct anything. If 5 tons is too big you will have a humidity problem for sure.

STUD

[Mr Bill]

Did you buy the Carrier unit with the Tonnage adjustment? :D
If so read your manual and decrease it some you will be fine, don't listen to these guys. :D :D :D

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by HVAC/Stud
Why do you ask all these questions now? Should have asked before signing a contract. Should have got at least 3 bids.

Each bid should have included a Manual J load calculation, Manual D duct plan and an ARI print out of matching coil, outdoor unit and furnace.

It’s a little late now to correct anything. If 5 tons is too big you will have a humidity problem for sure.

STUD


I got 4 bids and they just finished installing yesterday so i hope it's not too late. At the time of contract i didnt know what part #'s i was getting. Thats why i took pictures of the install along with part # which i found out yesterday and start a thread to find out from you guys if all this looks correct. I live in the valley which gets about 110deg no humidity here. Just dry summer heats.

[plain spoken]

Your furnace is multi position. Meaning it can be installed upflow, downflow, left of right horizontal. The 58STA and 59STX are basically the same furnace. The STX is built to meet the California standard. Yes the drain needs to be clarified. While they should not be tied together it is not as big a deal if they used a float switch in the auxilliary pan. If you have looked at the equipment and verified the model numbers, not just read off the invoice, then you need to get them back and correct this, which will mean changing the furnace to the correct size. It could be a typing mistake on their part if you are going by the invoice.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 02:26 PM]

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by plain spoken
Your furnace is multi position. Meaning it can be installed upflow, downflow, left of right horizontal. The 58STA and 59STX are basically the same furnace. The STX is built to meet the California standard. Yes the drain needs to be clarified. While they should not be tied together it is not as big a deal if they used a float switch in the auxilliary pan. If you have looked at the equipment and verified the model numbers, not just read off the invoice, then you need to get them back and correct this, which will mean changing the furnace to the correct size. It could be a typing mistake on their part if you are going by the invoice.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 02:26 PM]

Thanks for help. The part # was read right off the unit. And i double checked with the box it came in.

Are you guys sure that my 58stx110-12 is a 3 ton? I called the guy and he called his supplier and swore its a 5 ton furnace. There are other 58stx###-## that maybe a 3ton unit. Can anyone verify with a reputable source?

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by plain spoken
Your furnace is multi position. Meaning it can be installed upflow, downflow, left of right horizontal. The 58STA and 59STX are basically the same furnace. The STX is built to meet the California standard. Yes the drain needs to be clarified. While they should not be tied together it is not as big a deal if they used a float switch in the auxilliary pan. If you have looked at the equipment and verified the model numbers, not just read off the invoice, then you need to get them back and correct this, which will mean changing the furnace to the correct size. It could be a typing mistake on their part if you are going by the invoice.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 02:26 PM]

I disagree, there is gonna be some nuisance service calls that are gonna cost the consumer with that drain setup. Have it fixed now or suffer those costs.

3 ton Air handler with a 5 ton AC,,,,big trouble. Hope you have mold insurance.

[plain spoken]

Originally posted by liftmys10
[Are you guys sure that my 58stx110-12 is a 3 ton? I called the guy and he called his supplier and swore its a 5 ton furnace. There are other 58stx###-## that maybe a 3ton unit. Can anyone verify with a reputable source? [/B]

I should resent that comment, but I won't! Here is how the model number breaks down:
58 = Carrier Gas Furnac
STX = 80% Standard Cabinent
110 = BTU input of the furnace
12 = 1200 CFM nominal capacity ( 1200 / 400 per ton = 3 ton )
For a 5 ton blower the number would be: 58STX110-20.

I am not familiar with the coil numbers, but the coil must be rated for 5 ton capability and it must have a Carrier hard shut off TXV installed.

Again, read ALL the number off the furnace and post here. The product number will tell everything about the furnace. It could be you have a 5 ton blower, only the complete number will tell.

[plain spoken]

Originally posted by seatonheating

Originally posted by plain spoken
Your furnace is multi position. Meaning it can be installed upflow, downflow, left of right horizontal. The 58STA and 59STX are basically the same furnace. The STX is built to meet the California standard. Yes the drain needs to be clarified. While they should not be tied together it is not as big a deal if they used a float switch in the auxilliary pan. If you have looked at the equipment and verified the model numbers, not just read off the invoice, then you need to get them back and correct this, which will mean changing the furnace to the correct size. It could be a typing mistake on their part if you are going by the invoice.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 02:26 PM]

I disagree, there is gonna be some nuisance service calls that are gonna cost the consumer with that drain setup. Have it fixed now or suffer those costs.

3 ton Air handler with a 5 ton AC,,,,big trouble. Hope you have mold insurance.

As I said, it would be best if it was not done this way. However, if a float switch is used what is the difference between this and a single primary and no secondary drain with a float switch? Either way if the drain stops up, the pan fills with water and the float cuts off the unit. This way you can clean the drain and empty the pan without getting the old shop vac into the attic. The pan will catch the overflow either way.

[liftmys10]

58stx110-12122 I didnt see the last 3 digits before so i thought it ended with a 12.

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148757.jpg

[plain spoken]

This is why we need a COMPLETE model number. You do have a 5 ton blower. The 121 is the series number, the 22 is the blower size.

[liftmys10]

Yeah im stupid. I saw the double 12's and im like for sure it has to be a 12. :) They couldnt have come up with a better # scheme.

[plain spoken]

Originally posted by liftmys10
Yeah im stupid. I saw the double 12's and im like for sure it has to be a 12. :) They couldnt have come up with a better # scheme.

No, just need to read and understand the whole thing ( I should have not said anything without the complete number!)

[mayguy]

As pointed out by others, the drain should be on it's own.

If for some reason the drain plugs up down the line, your current set up will back up into the pan, and over flows into the living space below.

So really, the drain should be on it's own. If the main drain plugs up, will over flow, and drip into the pan under the coil, and go that drain. If you see water coming out this drain, then you should go up and check to see what's wrong.

Attic install is not a common thing up north,, but from what I've read, it seems like code down south the pan drain should be near a door or window where you can see water coming out.

Where are you from? Sq foot of the home?

Got pictures for us for the outdoor unit?

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by plain spoken

Originally posted by seatonheating

Originally posted by plain spoken
Your furnace is multi position. Meaning it can be installed upflow, downflow, left of right horizontal. The 58STA and 59STX are basically the same furnace. The STX is built to meet the California standard. Yes the drain needs to be clarified. While they should not be tied together it is not as big a deal if they used a float switch in the auxilliary pan. If you have looked at the equipment and verified the model numbers, not just read off the invoice, then you need to get them back and correct this, which will mean changing the furnace to the correct size. It could be a typing mistake on their part if you are going by the invoice.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 02:26 PM]

I disagree, there is gonna be some nuisance service calls that are gonna cost the consumer with that drain setup. Have it fixed now or suffer those costs.

3 ton Air handler with a 5 ton AC,,,,big trouble. Hope you have mold insurance.

As I said, it would be best if it was not done this way. However, if a float switch is used what is the difference between this and a single primary and no secondary drain with a float switch? Either way if the drain stops up, the pan fills with water and the float cuts off the unit. This way you can clean the drain and empty the pan without getting the old shop vac into the attic. The pan will catch the overflow either way.

Wrong again. If the 2 drains are piped separately you are giving the water 2 chances to drain as opposed to one. There is a reason why us as professionals do it this way. I would rather have the secondary dripping on my head above the entrance door than have water sitting in a pan, that could potentially spill over, and worse, rust out the pan.

[plain spoken]

Us professionals???????

I said it should have two pipes. But in your "professional" opinion, answer my question. What is the difference in one pipe with a switch and done this way with a switch? Either way the switch will cut the unit off and let the HO know there is a problem. I doubt the pan will rust in the time it takes to get the drain open.

Yes code says the aux drain must drain in a conspicuous place to let the HO know the primary is blocked...how many of them know that is the problem when they see it draining? And what happens when the secondary gets stopped up too.....water through the ceiling? Code also allows the use of a float switch. At least this way they know there is a problem when it quits cooling.

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 06:53 PM]

[jrbenny]

Originally posted by plain spoken
Yes code says the aux drain must drain in a conspicuous place to let the HO know the primary is blocked...how many of them know that is the problem when they see it draining? And what happens when the secondary gets stopped up too.....water through the ceiling? Code also allows the use of a float switch. To be precise, the code allows for either a float or a secondary drain to a conspicuous place. The argument is moot.

Seaton - chill just a tad. PS is truly a professional. No need to pull that attitude.

[plain spoken]

JR, I will chill also. My apologies to all.

[jrbenny]

Thanks. I just love it when we all get along.

http://www.smileypad.com/v10/Cache/Personal/Group-Hug.gif


:D

[seatonheating]

Hey, there was no attitude here at all.


I said "us as professionals", not "us professionals".

If this homeowner wants to be happy with the minimum of safety so be it. I'm just giving him sound advice as to what should be done and why. I for one would never install a drain pan this way. The reason is I don't do the minimum, I go above and beyond what is right because I believe in doing top quality work always. If someone wants to just be happy with what code requires then I am sorry for them. Some of the codes are overly cautious, some aren't cautious enough. When it comes to water I believe we should all try to do more than what the code says.

[wagnerhvac]

Just my two sense. I have not worked with Carrier for a couple of years, but I don't recall that A/C model number looking like a 5 ton maybe only a 3 ton. Who is the carrier expert to verify this

[plain spoken]

It is a 5 ton unit, new units have new model numbers.
24 = Air Conditoner
A = Air conditioner
B = Base unit
R = R22
3 = 13 seer
60 = 60K BTU

[jrbenny]

Originally posted by plain spoken
It is a 5 ton unit, new units have new model numbers.
24 = Air Conditoner
A = Air conditioner
B = Base unit
R = R22
3 = 13 seer
60 = 60K BTU No, he said Carrier expert. Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

I bet that installing contractor couldn't read the model number. Probably thinks he installed a 3 ton.

[plain spoken]

Yeah, I knew I did not qualify but I thought you were busy so I tried to answer.

[sealy b]

Your furnace is a multi-poise installed in a horizontal left position

[ikey]

that flex job leaves alot to be desired, ducts laying on each other, doesn't seem as they are sealed at the boxes and looks like horrendous 90's straight off of the plenum.

didn't read this whole post but is that an all in one allstyle coil? if so, they suck, and leak, and they suck.

[jrbenny]

Originally posted by plain spoken
Yeah, I knew I did not qualify but I thought you were busy so I tried to answer. Can you shoot me an email? I've lost yours in a computer refresh. Use the kochair.com addy, please.

[wagnerhvac]

Just saw something interesting on your pictures. My guess is they never tried the furnace. Seems like the gas valve is off.

Interesting insulation also, missing here and there

[plain spoken]

Originally posted by jrbenny

Originally posted by plain spoken
Yeah, I knew I did not qualify but I thought you were busy so I tried to answer. Can you shoot me an email? I've lost yours in a computer refresh. Use the kochair.com addy, please.

I have the same problem, new computer. May have your addy at work, will check Monday. If not mine at work follows standard protocol, if you know what I mean. Or heatman969 at yahoo dot com

[Edited by plain spoken on 06-17-2006 at 10:48 PM]

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by plain spoken

Yes code says the aux drain must drain in a conspicuous place to let the HO know the primary is blocked...how many of them know that is the problem when they see it draining? And what happens when the secondary gets stopped up too.....water through the ceiling? Code also allows the use of a float switch. At least this way they know there is a problem when it quits cooling.


I talked to the installers. They are going to come and put a float. He said they didnt have any in the van at the time. And to be honest i had no idea what the code requires, but it makes perfect sense to install a float to warn the user that the main line is blocked. My pan is made of plastic material so i dont jave to worry about rusting.


Originally posted by ikey

didn't read this whole post but is that an all in one allstyle coil? if so, they suck, and leak, and they suck.

Yes it is an Allstyle coil. Can you please tell me why it sucks and all leak? You're the second person who said it so im a bit worried now as a user of this coil.



Originally posted by mayguy


Where are you from? Sq foot of the home?

Got pictures for us for the outdoor unit?

San Fernando Valley, CA. 2,200Sq ft with very high ceiling at some parts of the house.
In the fist picture you can see the new heat vent to the right of the AC.
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148759.jpg
http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/liftmys10/148758.jpg

[Edited by liftmys10 on 06-17-2006 at 11:08 PM]

[billva]

why weren't the straps screwed in?

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by billva
why weren't the straps screwed in?

what straps?

[billva]

enough of the hvac pics, how about a pic of the view over the water?

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by liftmys10

Originally posted by billva
why weren't the straps screwed in?

what straps?

The ones that were crudely hacked in from the condensor to the platform.....

Man, the more pieces you show the uglier it gets. Sure you want them coming to fix it?

[smngmu]

Originally posted by wagnerhvac
Just saw something interesting on your pictures. My guess is they never tried the furnace. Seems like the gas valve is off.

Interesting insulation also, missing here and there

lol I noticed it,too.Just got to this one.Insulating job is very hit or miss.Once gas valve is turned on and heat is on, get ready for the smoke.Normal on new installs.They cover the heat exchanger in oil to keep it from rusting. This will burn off though.Just takes time.

[liftmys10]

I actually put the insulation on the ceiling of the roof if that's what you guys are talking about :( I didnt buy enough and it got too hot so i left it like that. This was maybe 6 years ago. I should complete it.

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by seatonheating

Originally posted by liftmys10

Originally posted by billva
why weren't the straps screwed in?

what straps?

The ones that were crudely hacked in from the condensor to the platform.....

Man, the more pieces you show the uglier it gets. Sure you want them coming to fix it?

I checked that out. It's strapped on pretty good. I live in Northridge and the fault line is almost under my house so i made sure that sucker was strapped on good. It's the least of my worries. Thanks

[Edited by liftmys10 on 06-17-2006 at 11:27 PM]

[liftmys10]

Originally posted by billva
enough of the hvac pics, how about a pic of the view over the water?

What water? Talking to me?

[Edited by liftmys10 on 06-17-2006 at 11:29 PM]