Need some advice from the Pros in selecting a contractor.

[garya505]

I'm getting a new lineset installed. In a earlier thread, we pretty much established what are commonly believed to be best practices for lineset brazing, leak test, evacuation, and charging, so there's no need to go over that all again.

Here's the question. How do I make sure I get someone who uses good procedures, without it appearing that I'm micromanaging, or worst yet telling them how to do their job? I've already had one bad experience due to the fact that I didn't ask enough questions, and I don't want a repeat of that. On the other hand, I don't want to seem like the "customer from hell" either.

[NCHeat]

Ask the right questions and demand the correct answers. I wouldn't ask a leading question like, Do you use nitrogen when you braze? Of course the answer is going to be yes. Ask a the question generally. What are your refrigeration practices? You know what you want to hear. Good luck

[garya505]

Thanks NCHeat, that's sort of what I was thinking. I could say something like, "I'm aware that everyone doesn't use the same procedure for installing a lineset. Can you give me a brief description of how you do it?".

[NCHeat]

Thanks NCHeat, that's sort of what I was thinking. I could say something like, "I'm aware that everyone doesn't use the same procedure for installing a lineset. Can you give me a brief description of how you do it?".


Perfect. Make them give you the correct answers. Not the other way around

[garya505]

Oh boy, here we go.

Contractor #1
The sales guy was a guy who previously owned his own company that went under. Said they have 30 techs and that all of them use their own procedure, and he doesn’t know what procedure any of them use. He said he hasn’t seen any evidence that using Nitrogen when brazing makes any difference. He quoted me a fixed price (I didn’t ask). I guess I could use these guys and hope I get a good tech out of the 30?

Contractor #2
This one didn't want to install a new lineset on equipment that somebody else installed.

Contractor #3
Said he could install a new linsset but said my condenser is way too small and won’t cool my house. When I told him I had 3 independent Manual J calculations and all they agreed, he said Manual J calculations are always wrong because it is set for 85F summer design temp (it’s 95F but I didn’t argue). He said since I have 1800 SF I need a 4 ton unit. He threw out a price that was obviously what too low for the amount of time this should take to do a quality job. The funniest part of this is that this company is listed as a “Certified Comfort Expert” on the York website.

I’m still waiting for some others to call me back. I’m sure there are contractors who do quality work here. I just need to find one.

[duckman06]

Oh boy, here we go.

Contractor #1
The sales guy was a guy who previously owned his own company that went under. Said they have 30 techs and that all of them use their own procedure, and he doesn’t know what procedure any of them use. He said he hasn’t seen any evidence that using Nitrogen when brazing makes any difference. He quoted me a fixed price (I didn’t ask). I guess I could use these guys and hope I get a good tech out of the 30?

Contractor #2
This one didn't want to install a new lineset on equipment that somebody else installed.

Contractor #3
Said he could install a new linsset but said my condenser is way too small and won’t cool my house. When I told him I had 3 independent Manual J calculations and all they agreed, he said Manual J calculations are always wrong because it is set for 85F summer design temp (it’s 95F but I didn’t argue). He said since I have 1800 SF I need a 4 ton unit. He threw out a price that was obviously what too low for the amount of time this should take to do a quality job. The funniest part of this is that this company is listed as a “Certified Comfort Expert” on the York website.

I’m still waiting for some others to call me back. I’m sure there are contractors who do quality work here. I just need to find one.


Keep looking for a company that will do a load cal. And know what and how to charge a system.

Contractor# 1: does not seem to know what or how his techs charges a system? Big red flag, this could be the reason he went out of business.


Contractor# 2: while I understand why he might not want to work on something that someone else installed but it's work and $$$!

Contractor# 3: sounds like a old school guy with the way he is thinking with the sizing of a system and might be just trying to sale you a new system. To say that all manual j load cals. Are not correct is wrong. He is just using a rule of thumb method that anyone can do.

Again keep looking there are good contractors out there that well do the job right. I would look at the contractor locator map and see if any pros on the this site are close to you if so invite them to your home.

[second opinion]

Keep looking for a company that will do a load cal. And know what and how to charge a system.

Contractor# 1: does not seem to know what or how his techs charges a system? Big red flag, this could be the reason he went out of business.


Contractor# 2: while I understand why he might not want to work on something that someone else installed but it's work and $$$!

Contractor# 3: sounds like a old school guy with the way he is thinking with the sizing of a system and might be just trying to sale you a new system. To say that all manual j load cals. Are not correct is wrong. He is just using a rule of thumb method that anyone can do.

Again keep looking there are good contractors out there that well do the job right. I would look at the contractor locator map and see if any pros on the this site are close to you if so invite them to your home.

X2. and double check you outdoor design temperature for Phoenix.

[garya505]

X2. and double check you outdoor design temperature for Phoenix.

It's Albuquerque. Some charts say 94F and some say 95F.

I'm starting to think most contractors don't use industry best practices on lineset installs, and it's going to take a while to find one who does. I guess I should have started looking in April. :gah:

[garya505]

I tried a little different approach that seems to be working pretty good. When I call, I give a brief description of what I need and tell them I'm not shopping for price and that I'd like a quality installation. If I hear something like "all our techs do it differently" or some other wishy-washy answer, well I move on. If the guy says he's never seen any evidence that brazing with nitrogen makes any difference so they don't so it, well I move on again. After a little talk about quality of installation I get to the point and ask them if they can give me a brief description of their procedures. Sometimes this is little difficult as most of them are not used to having a HO ask this sort of question, but I have been able to get it out of them, or at least get enough to know if I should continue.

I'm getting pretty good at BS detection. :grin2:

[garya505]

OK, I got one guy that I think would be OK. Owns the company, does his own work. Says we brazes with nitrogen and will leak test with Nitrogen at 400 psi. Then, since he lives nearby, he would put the vac pump on and let it run all day or all night and return later to charge it. Since the condenser is on the roof he's not worried about leaving the pump there for a while. He said he likes to see 200-300 microns but at least maximum of 500. He also said the condenser unit probably has enough charge for the 25 feet of line I have. I think the York doc says it has enough charge for the largest rated coil and 15 feet of line. He said he would check the charge using the pressure/temperature chart and add refrigerant if needed, but he said it's better to slightly undercharge than overcharge and that a lot of systems are overcharged.

A couple of questions:

Is leaving the pump on for several hours an OK way to do it, or do you have to turn off the pump to see if it holds for a while? I'm sure the nitrogen pressure test would show any leaks, right? The evac is to get everything out, not leak test, right?

He said it's better to slightly undercharge than overcharge, is that true?

Any feedback or comments? Should I go with this guy or keep on looking?