New Rheem Heat Pump Install Concerns

[im4hvac]

My dad recently had a 3 ton rheem heat pump and air handler installation. This was a replacement for old equipment. I was on site when the installation was done as my dad is getting up in his years and asked me to be there.

The installer was a Certified Master HVAC contractor. The following are some things I noticed about the install and would like some feedback to address my questions.

1) A new (3/8" / 3/4") 35' line set was used for this R410A installation with only 30' of the line set being used.

2. A new filter drier was installed on the liquid line about 5" from the outside units service port.

3. Heat Pump IAQ thermostat was installed.

The Rheem owner manual states the unit has a factory charge for a 15' line set. The installer said the unit was operating properly and needed no additional freon charge?

When the new line set was brazed at the unit and air handler the installer did not use a nitrogen purge flow while brazing. The owners manual states when brazing R410A line sets nitrogen should be used.


Thermostat is working but not in the auto mode to change form heat to air automatically.


What I would like to know is what steps should be taken at this point. I look forward to hearing from someone.

Thanks,

[im4hvac]

What I would like to know is what steps should be taken at this point to protect the equipment to help eliminate any future problems.

[rickboggs]

My dad recently had a 3 ton rheem heat pump and air handler installation. This was a replacement for old equipment. I was on site when the installation was done as my dad is getting up in his years and asked me to be there.

The installer was a Certified Master HVAC contractor. The following are some things I noticed about the install and would like some feedback to address my questions.

1) A new (3/8" / 3/4") 35' line set was used for this R410A installation with only 30' of the line set being used. Nothing wrong with that

2. A new filter drier was installed on the liquid line about 5" from the outside units service port. Nothing wrong with that

3. Heat Pump IAQ thermostat was installed. Nothing wrong with that

The Rheem owner manual states the unit has a factory charge for a 15' line set. The installer said the unit was operating properly and needed no additional freon charge? Hopefully he set the charge by using manufacture's charging chart

When the new line set was brazed at the unit and air handler the installer did not use a nitrogen purge flow while brazing. The owners manual states when brazing R410A line sets nitrogen should be used. 99.9% of all equipment is installed without nitro purge.


Thermostat is working but not in the auto mode to change form heat to air automatically. Nothing wrong with that. Most high end tstats have many options. Look at the paper with pictures on it.... set it how you want it.


What I would like to know is what steps should be taken at this point. I look forward to hearing from someone.

Thanks,It would be nice if everyone would purge...... with nitrogen. But it's not going to happen.... And my price is compared with theirs.

Something that's really important to the operation of your equipment is airflow. I would make sure my return-air and duct work is sized right.

[jmac00]

My dad recently had a 3 ton rheem heat pump and air handler installation. This was a replacement for old equipment. I was on site when the installation was done as my dad is getting up in his years and asked me to be there.

The installer was a Certified Master HVAC contractor. The following are some things I noticed about the install and would like some feedback to address my questions.


1) A new (3/8" / 3/4") 35' line set was used for this R410A installation with only 30' of the line set being used.

perfectly fine, Lines sets only come is certain manufactured lengths, I always buy the longest necessary and cut it down, the rest goes in the recycle bin.


2. A new filter drier was installed on the liquid line about 5" from the outside units service port.


that was done per the installation instruction, although I would have put the LLD (Liquid line dryer) 5" from the indoor coil (Evaporator) and I have installed the LLD out by the service port, no biggy


3. Heat Pump IAQ thermostat was installed.

can't get much better than that? Why is that a concern


The Rheem owner manual states the unit has a factory charge for a 15' line set. The installer said the unit was operating properly and needed no additional freon charge?

did you see him add a few ounces of r-410? as long as he added the proper "extra" amount you should be fine, if he didn't add extra r-410 then that might be a concern


When the new line set was brazed at the unit and air handler the installer did not use a nitrogen purge flow while brazing. The owners manual states when brazing R410A line sets nitrogen should be used.

New units come filled with Nitrogen, if he worked fast enough no other additional Nitro is needed. (this particular issue always starts a big argument) I only use a "bleed" nitro if it's a particularly humid day


Thermostat is working but not in the auto mode to change form heat to air automatically.

you can move it to auto if you choose? is this a problem. Go to the stat and use the system switch to change to "auto"



What I would like to know is what steps should be taken at this point. I look forward to hearing from someone.

Thanks,

sounds to me like the company did there job and did it well? I don't understand why you have a concern if everything seems to be working correctly

[im4hvac]

Many thanks guys for replying back to my concerns.

The reason I mentioned the length of the line set was the unit only comes with a 15' line set charge of 410A from the factory. With the line set being an additional 18' longer being a total of 33' (.6 ounces x 18' = 10.8 ounces of freon charge that needs to be added for recommended operating level. This is information I found on the internet from multiple sources.

I know that no additional freon was added because I asked the installer if he added any 410A to the system. (He said: My gauges show that the system pressure is correct and the refrigerant lines feel about right on temperature so no additional charge is needed.)

From what I have read the proper refrigerant charge should be determined by Subcooling Charging Method for this equipment since it has an expansion valve. Yes or No?

From other information I had gathered I was concerned about him not using the nitrogen purge, Since this appears to be the guideline for R410A.

I do know that when R22 was the mainstream refrigerant nitrogen was always used during the manufacturing process for brazing. I know this because I was a York International employee for many years. Brazing heat pumps, condensers and cased coils. "Hope you guys have not found any leaks on the York equipment, lol."

I also know that many installers of R 22 units never used nitrogen while installing equipment. So for R22 equipment it was not a big deal. Just had a concern on the R410A equipment.

As far as the thermostat goes it works well and the equipment is operating as it should. I thought something may not be wired correctly since the auto mode does not change form heat to air as it should concerning the thermostat.

Since the install was to include any additional refrigerant if needed, I just want to be sure things are done properly. No need in paying a service call in the future if it happens to need an additional charge of R410A.


As far as the duct sizing goes I do notice an air whistling sound coming from the vents that I didn't notice on his old equipment.

Many thanks for the replies.

[BaldLoonie]

We find most Rheem units have more than 15' worth of gas in them.

The IAQ must be told in advanced setup to allow autochangover mode. See the installation instructions if you can't get yours into that mode.

[im4hvac]

Thanks for answering me back Baldloonie. Thermostat auto changeover has been programmed into the IAQ and shows up on the display just does not perform the auto function.

Just wondering if anyone on the forum here has ever looked on the inside of copper tubing brazed without nitrogen. Being an old brazer from my manufacturing days I can assure you if cut open the copper line set after brazing without nitrogen you will see a significant difference of the ash type trash on the inside of the line set. As to whether it has an adverse effect on the R410A equipment in the long haul is another story. I do know it didn't have a major effect on R22 equipment.

Thanks

[jmac00]

On the thermostat there is a 3° to 5° differential between Heating and cooling depending on how it was set up. Thats to protect the compressor. If you have the stat set up correctly and it's going pass the set point and not initiating a system call, then you either have a defective stat or it was not set up correctly to start with.

as far as the use of Nitrogen?? I already stated that this usually starts a argument. But the evaporator and the lineset both come with Nitrogen in them,( In a NEW SYSTEM) so if you open one end and work fast enough, there generally is no need to bleed Nitrogen into the lineset. Like I said, on humid days, I will bleed some through, but not to often and I have never had an issue.

I do know of one contractor in New Jersey that installed a LOT of "York, blue fin" coils, those things leak like a screen door on a submarine. As far as I know, York is not giving him any support on changing them out ( No labor allowance) which sucks, so he stopped doing business with York and he use to do a LOT of business with them. he is changing them out on his own, but it's costing him a fortune.

[wahoo]

I do know that a lot of our 410a equipment is coming out with a slight overcharge of freon. So not adding might have been a really good idea, no matter what the book says. With short 15-20 ft. linesets we normally have to remove some freon.:.02:

[im4hvac]

Thanks jmac99, wahoo and jpb2 for the input. After gleaning all the feedback I will consider the unit fully charged with freon.

As for the tstat there is a 5 degree variance between heat and air settings. I will continue to look into the tstat issue as it's not a big deal to manually change from heat to cool mode with summer coming.

My york days were many years ago jmac00. Don't know anything about those blue fin tuna coils, lol.

Many Thanks

[beenthere]

The deadband between heat and cool can be decreased.

[rickboggs]

Why nitrogen? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uP-eb8Zz08)

[BaldLoonie]

Dang it, Jeff. Get your *