IQ Drive Installation Woes

[Keroppi]

I am here to (sadly) seek assistance for my installer, although they don't think they need it. I am no HVAC expert, but I know quite a bit of electronics, and have a level head on my shoulders.

I am already committed to this installer, so I have to see it through to the end; they are IQ certified, but I feel their competence is questionable at best. They are installing 2 complete split setups, B4VM-E air handlers, so we have almost a complete set of parts that can be swapped back and forth for troubleshooting. As a HO, I have already found issues with the install. They tried to place the condenser only 8" off of a high solid wall (I made them move it) and although they used shielded for the comms, they didn't run the contactor 24V wire separate. (haven't made them fix that).

So when they went to bring it up, he told me the EXV Valve on the A Coil was bad, and it would cost $$lots in labor to swap, I raised an eyebrow at them. He explained how at boot up the system makes a nice ratcheting sound as the valve moves; it did it once, and then only a sick groan ever again.

So I did some research and read about the EXV/EXV board wiring and operation, climbed up in the attic and checked it myself. Turned it on, heard the awful groan as described. Board has a heartbeat blink, indicating it somehow (dipswitches were correct) got set in manual mode. Held the button to reset, and voila...light now solid, and now on every boot it ratchets fine. 99.5% sure the valve is A-OK. Called the installer (who is coming back today to verify) and got all but called a liar and an idiot.

The other issue (needing help for) is the status code "ID COIL TEMP SENSOR" on the controller...there are 2 coil temp sensors, one suction thermistor that connects to the EXV board, and a hairpin thermistor for defrost that connects directly to the interface board.

The tech is (was) telling me that it is complaining about the SUCTION thermistor, and that it was reading this way because of the bad valve, which sounds like complete and total bs. It's a resistor that changes with temp. The relevant board reads the resistance and that's that, whether the valve works or not.

So the suction thermistor ohms out fine, and the EVX board flashes if you disconnect it, so evidently the EXV board thinks it's fine too. How exactly would the controller report the suction thermistor if the EXV board it connects to has no comms? That thermistor and the pressure transducer should control the valve only, with no status reported, hence why there is no EXV section in the installer menu reports, only the ability to actuate it, yes?

The defrost hairpin thermistor, on the other hand, connects directly to the interface board, so it actually would make logical sense that this one is the one the software is crying about. It is the older revision, but it is attached securely, and in all fairness, ohms out to a reasonable reading, but I didn't have a thermometer to check against the actual ambient attic temp in the chart. All of this tells me that:

The valve likely works (I will have him manually actuate it in the service menu to his fancy)

The software is crying about the HAIRPIN thermistor, not the suction one

The hairpin thermistor is (unlikely) bad, or the interface board is. We have both of these on hand from the other air handler to test with.

All of this sound about correct?

I realize that no "pro" (especially one with that little IQ certification) wants to shown whats what by a lowly homeowner, but I spent quite a bit of $$ and this needs to be installed right, and what I am being told sounds like incompetent bs. I think the issue(s) can be identified/remedied relatively quickly and easily, but only if I can get the installer to quit treating me like I have zero clue what is going on.

If any of you could please shed any light on this, make any recommendations, and clarify which temp sensor the software is reporting, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Of course, Nordyne could tell him too, but for that, he'd have to quit being so :censored: and actually ask them.

Thanks in advance!

[isuredo]

sounds like a call to nordyne tech support is in order....any dealer who is IQ certified has gone thru a short, look what we built instruction course and will only become competent with knowledge, which comes from installing these, and seiing the operations firsthand. Its good your involved and concerned, if these are new, labor should be covered for a warranty repair, if not, Id say your dealing with either the wrong manufacturer or dealer, why did you pick an iq over a greenspeed carrier, the hspf alone on the carrier makes the iq look like a 13 seer...just wondering?

[Keroppi]

The are new, but I purchased them elsewhere, so the installer is charging labor for any repairs.
While I understand they cannot assure the condition since they didn't provide the units, I still feel as though they are still trying to pull extra $$ for the experience of cutting their teeth. Anything that is an issue immediately becomes fault of the brand new (but "questionable") units instead of (possible) installer error.
I registered the units under them, so I assume Nordyne will still be chipping in their $250 to them on labor for anything major. However, like the valve, I can't/don't really trust the major issues to exist in the first place.

I bought the units because I read about all the high end units, what they offered, what I could get them for, and picked the best value. To be fair, I didn't pay retail (or even distributor) prices. Although I got heat pumps, the HSPF of 10 on the IQ to 12.5 on the Carrier meant a little less to me in Houston, TX, where the winter lows rarely get under 50.

However, I did my research, picked what I thought was a very competent and reputable installer, and am paying a very fair penny for this install, since they aren't making margin on equipment.
It just seems they aren't actually competent on the IQ, and too prideful to do anything but blame equipment, so I am getting further in troubleshooting than they are, which is NOT a good thing when you think about it. Certified pro SHOULD be >Homeowner with tech notes and a meter any day. All the ductwork and standard HVAC install has been spot on, with the exception of the condenser placement.

So, can customers called Nordyne tech directly?

Can you verify my belief of which temp sensor the software is crying about?

Thanks

[Keroppi]

70 views...no IQ gurus browsing the forum today?
:limb:

[wahoo]

I think you're now the expert if you "bought" these on your own. Good luck!:.02:

[Keroppi]

Seems like it.

Like I said, the install price made it worth their while, if it wasn't, they wouldn't have taken the job.

I am not asking for DIY instruction here, just some clarification to help one of your (well-compensated) "certified" fellow tradesmen who is having trouble. Thanks again.

[hvacvegas]

Seems like it.

Like I said, the install price made it worth their while, if it wasn't, they wouldn't have taken the job.

I am not asking for DIY instruction here, just some clarification to help one of your (well-compensated) "certified" fellow tradesmen who is having trouble. Thanks again.

At first reading, I was shocked by the quote to replace the expansive valve.

After finding out you didn't purchase the equitment from the installer:

I, and most of the other tech's, probably aren't going to help you.

You circumvented the system. Unfortunetly, now you pay the price.

[Keroppi]

I didn't circumvent any "system". While it's well known that you guys make plenty of your profit on the sale, if I had to buy these that way, there would be no sale, there would be no install, and there would be no profit at all.

The way I see it, I am paying a fair enough amount for the install to compensate for that, the installer is happy with his margins, and this install put food on somebody's table in your industry. If you want to shun me for that, it's your prerogative, but I didn't rob anybody.

It gives them the ability to come in, do the install, not have to back the equipment at all, and be liability free to anything not definitively labor-related...and I am perfectly fine with that, it's the way this "system" should work.

What I am not fine with is not getting what I paid fairly for: a competent installation. One that includes proper wiring, proper clearances, and proper troubleshooting procedures and diagnosis in the event there is a problem.

[SkyHeating]

What I am not fine with is not getting what I paid fairly for: a competent installation. One that includes proper wiring, proper clearances, and proper troubleshooting procedures and diagnosis in the event there is a problem.

You are getting what you paid for, any certified company would not allow you to purchase the equipment elsewhere. I had my techs go through the iQ drive class and it sucks. My techs had to teach the instructor and the instructor came to our first job to "learn" how to install these. Glad you saved money because now you have a system that will not work as specified, you should have just saved the money and bought a properly installed 15 SEER unit.

I know you think I am being rude right now but I am saying this as a WARNING to other homeowners, there is a reason contractors sell the equipment that we install, only the non competent installers will install other peoples equipment.

[Keroppi]

It is what it is. I suppose it's a good thing that there are other competent companies that will troubleshoot a system that they didn't provide, as I will probably be needing their services. Sad to know the instructors are equally competent, those classes cost a pretty penny too. Does it feel like you got what you paid for?

If someone can verify the "ID COIL TEMP SENSOR" is in fact referring to the defrost (hairpin) sensor, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[mark beiser]

If someone can verify the "ID COIL TEMP SENSOR" is in fact referring to the defrost (hairpin) sensor, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Yes, it would be the coil temperature sensor connected to the interface board.
The interface board has no communication with the Kelvin controller for the EEV, or any of its sensors.

The coil temperature sensor that connects to the interface board is used for the humidity control mode.

[Keroppi]

Mark, thank you very much for answering my question.

[SoFlaDave]

I would be very surprised if Nordyne warranties anything that is sold to a non-contractor. It has been gone over ad nauseum on this forum that manufacturers that allow their equipment to be sold either online or retail direct to homeowners will have a clause however vaguely worded it might be in the warranty terms that the equipment has to be purchased by and installed by the same company. They don't care if the company went to the class or put in 1000 beautiful IQ installations.

The serial numbers for any equipment sold in this manner are typically flagged in the warranty system so whether it is registered or not, they may not be responsible for providing parts under warranty. As you can understand at this point, Nordyne does not want to be held liable for any improper installation techniques either by the homeowner themselves or unlicensed/ incompetent contractors.

Like it or not, you may have screwed the proverbial pooch on this job. I understand why people want to do this and sometimes it works out great but when it doesn't, well now you know.

[Keroppi]

I actually went through the Nordyne et al warranty terms very carefully before purchase. It only specifies that the equipment must not be purchased online, and that it must be installed by a licensed, certified installer. Both said requirements were upheld, and the units are registered. As there is at least one part that needs swapping (thermistor or interface board) I'll find out soon enough if it will be an issue.

[jpsmith1cm]

southmississippi

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[Mr Bill]

I actually went through the Nordyne et al warranty terms very carefully before purchase. It only specifies that the equipment must not be purchased online, and that it must be installed by a licensed, certified installer. Both said requirements were upheld, and the units are registered. As there is at least one part that needs swapping (thermistor or interface board) I'll find out soon enough if it will be an issue.

I don't know whats up with Nordyne, I have a Bud/Competitor that just quit selling their products after a couple years selling it, to many issues, he is back to selling Ruud. My "Ruud" distributor that also sold Nordyne, just told me the other day when we tried to warranty an ECM motor that they no longer are going to carry the Nordyne line. They could not warranty the motor for me because they are getting rid of all Nordyne stock, that sucked. :gah: The system was installed by another contractor, so the customer needs to hire Sherlock Holmes to find them. :yes:

[beenthere]

Rufus1948, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

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[franc11s]

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[mark beiser]

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

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It is perfectly legal for HVAC equipment manufacturers to limit their warranty to only cover equipment that is is purchased through, and installed by, a contractor.

By the same token, if Apple included limitations in their warranty that it is only valid for the original purchaser of the phone from an authorized dealer, that would also be perfectly legal.
Now if Apple decided to change it so only iPhones purchased at the Apple Store had a warranty, and those purchased at an AT&T store had no warranty, or a lesser warranty, that would be illegal.

Equating the warranty on an HVAC system to that on an iPhone is meaningless anyway.
The phone is a finished product, it works exactly the same, regardless of where you buy it.

An HVAC system requires equipment selection, installation, and start-up by someone who has specialized training and equipment, and in most areas, state or local licensing and permitting.
Failure to select appropriate equipment for the application, install it properly, and/or follow proper start-up procedures has a direct affect on the operation and reliability of the equipment.

[franc11s]

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

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It is perfectly legal for HVAC equipment manufacturers to limit their warranty to only cover equipment that is is purchased through, and installed by, a contractor.

By the same token, if Apple included limitations in their warranty that it is only valid for the original purchaser of the phone from an authorized dealer, that would also be perfectly legal.
Now if Apple decided to change it so only iPhones purchased at the Apple Store had a warranty, and those purchased at an AT&T store had no warranty, or a lesser warranty, that would be illegal.

Equating the warranty on an HVAC system to that on an iPhone is meaningless anyway.
The phone is a finished product, it works exactly the same, regardless of where you buy it.

An HVAC system requires equipment selection, installation, and start-up by someone who has specialized training and equipment, and in most areas, state or local licensing and permitting.
Failure to select appropriate equipment for the application, install it properly, and/or follow proper start-up procedures has a direct affect on the operation and reliability of the equipment.

[beenthere]

franc11s this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=957002).

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[billygoat22]

non-member comment day?

Some manufacturers you cannot get their high end stuff outside a dealer, period. I guess nordyne doesn't?

[behappy]

and although they used shielded for the comms, they didn't run the contactor 24V wire separate. (haven't made them fix that).

RED FLAG!





I would be very surprised if Nordyne warranties anything that is sold to a non-contractor. It has been gone over ad nauseum on this forum that manufacturers that allow their equipment to be sold either online or retail direct to homeowners will have a clause however vaguely worded it might be in the warranty terms that the equipment has to be purchased by and installed by the same company. They don't care if the company went to the class or put in 1000 beautiful IQ installations.

The serial numbers for any equipment sold in this manner are typically flagged in the warranty system so whether it is registered or not, they may not be responsible for providing parts under warranty. As you can understand at this point, Nordyne does not want to be held liable for any improper installation techniques either by the homeowner themselves or unlicensed/ incompetent contractors.

Like it or not, you may have screwed the proverbial pooch on this job. I understand why people want to do this and sometimes it works out great but when it doesn't, well now you know.

I totally agree with the above statement!

I have no clue where or even why someone would purchase such expensive and complicated equipment from an unknown source. There is a very good chance you will not have ANY warranty on this.

Your best bet is to find a competent Nordyne dealer (possible calling Nordyne for a reference) and PAY him to straighten out your mess.

Your installer must not have paid attention if he is "IAQ certified" and this is not something you can DIY.

Shoulda bought a Goodman.... :.02:

[behappy]

I actually went through the Nordyne et al warranty terms very carefully before purchase. It only specifies that the equipment must not be purchased online, and that it must be installed by a licensed, certified installer. Both said requirements were upheld, and the units are registered. As there is at least one part that needs swapping (thermistor or interface board) I'll find out soon enough if it will be an issue.

If you didn't purchase it online, then you need to get your brother-in-law or whomever you bought it from to straighten it out.

BTW: If Mr. Bill has a Nordyne unit (and it is not registered), Anybody can register his machine with it's numbers online. But getting it repaired under warranty may be a problem. :whistle: