Taking temps in the field

[R12rules]

The outfit I work for has a policy for "log sheet" data collection on every system we break into.

This is both good and bad.
Good because a tech has to take all the readings and these will help to keep him on track, honest and creat a paper trail for future referance.

Bad in that it is very time consuming.
Also bad in the fact that most of the men are NOT online here so they dont know the term: emissivity.

They simply grab a uei IR meter and point, write down what the meter tells em.
Or they use a single probe K lead and put it to the line or into the duct.


Myself, I want to use the best of both worlds to log my data.
I am looking at the Fluke 572CF meter. It does infrared, plus close focus. Plus it has a port to plug in K type probes into.
I will probably want to get a Fluke 54 dual probe meter to go along with it on PM's where I am doing a ton of temp measurements.
In which case I would connect two air temp probes with 20 foot leads into the 54 and get my Delta T acrss the coils. Plus it would give me a back up meter to the IR thermometor should there arise a question about what the temp somewhere REALLY IS.

With the 572CF, I would connect a simple beaded probe and carry the Fluke pipe clamp also.
This would enable me to simply/ quickly clamp each line I need to measure the temp on and vioalla ... I got it.

With adjustable emissivity, I should be able to dial in when and where I can accurately use the IR feature of the meter.
Perhaps I will need to carry "neutral" color patches which I can quickly adhere to the line or unit I wish to scan and shoot that spot, so to speak.

I heard some guys bringing a can of flat black spray paint to use wherever they want an accurate temp reading using an IR thermometor.


What has been your experiences for this type of task?


Thanks

[amickracing]

Here's my 2 cents...
I have a fluke pipe clamp (the good one) I use for line temps. I have a fieldpiece meter that I can use a thermocouple to get the readings. I have a few of the wire thermocouples, one liquid t-couple (has a metal rod on the end), and a head to do WB, DP, RH etc.

Now... before the flames start on fieldpiece. They might not be the best, but they are on the upper end. Eventually they'll become my backup as I get different tools... but for now they work fine. And for what it's worth even if I cant get accuracly down to the .001 of a degree, at least I have to tools to get the temps and take the time to get the temps.

[hvacpope]

When properly calibrated the UEI 256 gives great temperature readings, I’ve compared it to a cooper thermistor type thermometer and found it to be whiting half of a degree.

[knowledge]

My Fieldpiece works great too. I have tested against the Fluke meters at my job and its right on accurate. Its also alot easier to carry one meter for volts, amps, temperature etc. I admit the Fluke seems a little tougher built, but my all in one Fieldpiece works for me.

[davidr]

I have been using a Fluke 52 II, Delta Trak IR, & the TSI Velocicalc Plus for what you are describing R-12 & they work great.

Only issue is no data logging option on the 52 II & Delta Trak. :(

[comfort comando]

you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.

[hvacpope]

Originally posted by comfort comando
you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.

Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.

[MikeJ]

Originally posted by hvacpope

Originally posted by comfort comando
you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.

Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.


On maintenance checkups, everytime you put on guages you chance adding air to the system and letting some freon out, especially those techs you refer to. I had a super who told us to hold the guages till after we did some temp checks and visual checks, cause if the unit is cooling good and air flow is good (blower and condenser fan/coil) you don't have to read the guages. Use them when things don't check out.

Also, not knowing where to put the thermometer bugs me. I still remember the newbie who I found sticking it right into the area where the A coil is. I said, "Good, now you know the temp of the coil, but what is the temp in the airstream?" He didn't have a clue as to what I meant.

Different strokes for different folks. I wonder if the fault is with the green techs or the service managers?

[hvacpope]

Originally posted by MikeJ

Originally posted by hvacpope

Originally posted by comfort comando
you all are a step above some of the techs i run in to, no thermometer of any kind, don't use gages on a/c tune ups. so any thing you come up with is a beter than most.

Please refrain yourself from calling those people techs, I could give you a list of more appropriated names.


On maintenance checkups, everytime you put on guages you chance adding air to the system and letting some freon out, especially those techs you refer to. I had a super who told us to hold the guages till after we did some temp checks and visual checks, cause if the unit is cooling good and air flow is good (blower and condenser fan/coil) you don't have to read the guages. Use them when things don't check out.

Also, not knowing where to put the thermometer bugs me. I still remember the newbie who I found sticking it right into the area where the A coil is. I said, "Good, now you know the temp of the coil, but what is the temp in the airstream?" He didn't have a clue as to what I meant.

Different strokes for different folks. I wonder if the fault is with the green techs or the service managers?

Another myth, most of the time your gauges are at a lower pressure than the refrigerant lines, as you probably know high pressure goes to low pressure, if anything gauges will take some of the system charges with them, I rigged a gauge to an small piece of copper pipe, it comes very handy specially when checking critically charged system like water source heat pumps.

[thegoodhumorman]

wow R12 sounds like the world of comfort cooling - right on!
More exacting stuff than tis market guy packs around-
dont know the 54 but have a pair of 52s, the infrared fluke put out that plugs into their meters VOM- and a boatload of pocket therms. Am intrigued by a 20 ft thermocouple- type K? Pricey?
I really believe in the strength of solid base info in log books, hope that it will pan out if your coworkers arent flakes about it.

nice new forum btw- about time.

[on call]

The infrared thermometers are best used when it's impracticable or dangerous to take measurements. You will get a more accurate reading using a contact probe.

The Fluke 57x series are extremely expensive. I would suggest you look into the Raytek MX series probes.

Emissivity can be a problem. I will use a black magic marker or black electrical tape on some light or shiny surfaces.

[R12rules]

I spoke with a technical rep from Omega Engineering.

It is possible to get repeatable, consistant, duplicatable temp measurements with people in the field is to have EVERYONE educated as to where, when and how to take their measurements!
Whether we use Fluke 50 series dual probe thermometers or single probe insturements ... the thing we need to have everyone doing is BEING ON THE SAME PAGE!!!

Personally, the cost is NOT an issue. The fact of getting in the system then off the system is proper time and with PROPER data ... THAT is where the value comes from! Not in saving a buck or two in meters!!!

Anyone who thinks differently is just a simpleton.


We have 22 trucks. TWENTY TWO MEN WITH TOOLS!!!

And frankly, that's a frightening thing when you consider the various possibilities of how many screw-ups we can have when everyone is using differing styles and different tools taking different measurements .... ALL ON THE SAME SYSTEMS!!!

Fluke makes a close focus IR meter which comes with a K type probe.
I figure you can reset/adjust the emissivity of the unit on a given system and THEN use the IR part of the meter to move on doing the rest of the measurements.

in example, masking tape is rated @ zero point 95.
So... a tech should be able to walk up to a system, place a piece of masking tape on several spot of the system and verify the temp using the K type probe, then verify using the IR.


I found they got a new type of "ductape" out. Black cloth. I find it most useful in sealing slit armorflex.

This stuff should have a better light absorbing quality than even masking tape.

We all need to experiment.

[R12rules]

as to the discussion about techs who dont use gages, much less carry thermometers on a job ... well ... good help IS hard to find.
And since so many outfits have no clue how to keep techs ... much less educate them further ... it's a sad state of affairs.


As far as attaching gages and introducing "air" into the systems ... and messing up the charge on smaller systems ... My gages have no loss fittings on BOTH ENDS!

And when I tie into the pressure port to check oil pressure, I use a gadget I saw first here on "Tips & Tricks". It is a gage with adapter with a screw on valve core depressor.
No pipe, no hose. No loss of oil nor refrigerant and no mess.


Whenever I see guys with gage sets and the hoses all have mini ball valves up near the end ... I jus wanna scream!
But honestly, there are more serious issues to deal with than loss of refrigerant!

[on call]

Money is always an issue. If you can get accurate, repeatable readings for less money, then one should look at all the options available.

You can easily spend over $1,000 on infrared thermometers and do the same thing with a contact probe for far less.

I use the Fluke 52 and have two pipe probes. I clamp both probes on every time and leave them on until I'm finished with the job. I always monitor subcooling and superheat regardless of the type of metering valve. With this setup, I monitor exactly what's going on with the charge on both lines throughout the entire charging process. With the IR, you have to sit there and shoot the target whenever you want a reading and this ties up one hand.

Yes, I believe 100% one needs professional tools to do a professional job and I love gadgets as much as the next guy. But, the KISS method will always pay off in the long run.

[kim]

I don't trust my IR that much. I have a contact probe rated for 500F. Great for calibrating cooktops and friers too.
I rarely use my type K wires anymore, besides measuring air temp.

Feildpiece man here. Sometimes I have to take the battery out to reset the dang thing.

I have a fluke and 2 feildpeice pipeclamps The $50 feildpeice is the only one that works now, but it is 2F off. I have 1 tap in my meter calibrated for that clamp.

[fitter638nyc]

Here is a pic of what I use I think it ROCK'S I wanted the Fluke 54 but it was like a week lead time.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9071/dsc043439jn.jpg

[corny]

Originally posted by kim
I don't trust my IR that much. I have a contact probe rated for 500F. Great for calibrating cooktops and friers too.
I rarely use my type K wires anymore, besides measuring air temp.

Feildpiece man here. Sometimes I have to take the battery out to reset the dang thing.

I have a fluke and 2 feildpeice pipeclamps The $50 feildpeice is the only one that works now, but it is 2F off. I have 1 tap in my meter calibrated for that clamp.

How do you that your fieldpiece is 2 degrees off ??? what method did you use to check the calibration.

[dec]

Someone explain to me the differance in the Fluke pipe clamp thermometers. Am I right that there are 2 differant ones, one around $50 and one around $100 ?????? Whats the differance to make one more expensive ??????

[Edited by dec on 06-14-2006 at 12:20 PM]

[berg2666]

The pipe clamp temp probe that says fluke is the exact same one as the fieldpiece they are made by the same manufacturer, and it is not fieldpiece or fluke.

I am refering to the one pictured in the thread with the fluke meter.

[Edited by berg2666 on 06-14-2006 at 05:59 PM]

[dec]

Ok even if those style pipe clamp thermoeters are made by someone other then Fluke or Fieldpiece....... are there 2 differant ones at 2 differannt prices. It just seems to me I see then at around $100 and others around $50. Im getting the impression there are 2 that look about the same but some reason one is more expensive as if it may be better built. Am I wrong and there is only one that style ?????????

[on call]

I have the $50 ones from fieldpiece. They are blue in color and work like a large clothespin.