Why

[cehs]

Why do liberals want socialism?
I figure it is that they want all the rest of the people to pay for their problems, but I am not so sure.
I also thought they just want to be magnanimous and help people in need.
I also thought they want voters/power and feel threatened when people become INDEPENDENT of the government.

What do you say?
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[Gib's Son]

Read Mark Levins book "Ameritopia" and "Liberty and Tyranny"; you will find your answer.

[Tech Rob]

What I have observed is that the so-called conservative brain only deals in absolutes i.e. "If you are not A, then you must be B". Not all people who are tagged as liberal believe that socialism is the answer. As far as healthcare goes, I believe that most people just want a system that works for every tax-paying citizen, and whose goal is to save lives and improve the quality of life, instead of the dehumanized capitalist profit machine we have now.

The government, as our elected leaders, should have the ability to craft a new system or modify the existing systems we have to work to this end better. The people should demand a better system that works for them.

[cehs]

What I have observed is that the so-called conservative brain only deals in absolutes i.e. "If you are not A, then you must be B". Not all people who are tagged as liberal believe that socialism is the answer. As far as healthcare goes, I believe that most people just want a system that works for every tax-paying citizen, and whose goal is to save lives and improve the quality of life, instead of the dehumanized capitalist profit machine we have now.

The government, as our elected leaders, should have the ability to craft a new system or modify the existing systems we have to work to this end better. The people should demand a better system that works for them.

Does this mean you believe that this health care fiasco is socialism?
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[Tech Rob]

I don't know enough about the healthcare legislation that's being debated currently to intelligently speak on it. If there are socialistic elements, that alone doesn't make it bad, and it doesn't mean everybody who supports it is a liberal or socialist, and it doesn't mean that every conservative is bound by oath to revile it. Sometimes, people just need to think outside of the ideological boxes they put themselves into.

[Gib's Son]

LOL

This is to complex of a question to be answered in a stupid thread. Read the books I listed above and "The Forgotten Man", the "Ten Thousand Year Leap" and I will list more book's if you still have additional questions.

P.S. Let's not forget "Rules For Radicals".

[AC5096]

Does this mean you believe that this health care fiasco is socialism?
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Nowhere near socialism, it was a an idea hatched at the Heritage Foundation.

I can think of services that we use everyday that is socialism.:whistle:

[LibertyTree]

Most are just cow-eyed morons. The 2 party system is genius. You are either liberal and cool or conservative, religious, and square. I think the vast majority just pick a side regardless of practices.

[royc]

Our system of goverment was set up to limit what goverment is able to do. Those laws have been Rube Goldberged to the point, they are no longer recognizable to any of our founders. The reason for that is because we have let marxism rule our educational system, and they have done a good job of brainwashing manny to the point, that most americans no longer believe in self atainment and self reliance.

The fact is that most americans today are plain stupid, for that can be the only explanation for letting what has happend the last two generation.

If our govermet was really interested in our health, they would pay a lot more attention to what is causing todays health problems, for one doesnt have to be too smart to figure out that the majority of serious ills today are man made, and are avoidable.

Our food has many chemicals and outright poisens in them, but since Monsanto and others like them, have a political strangle hold on our goverment, that those who care are marginalized, and its business as usual.


Roy

[cehs]

Isn't socialism government control/distribution of wealth/health/property?
Maybe my definition is flawed. I don't see socialism as evil, I just see it as the wrong means to a utopian end.
We should be giving personally to the poor and so on, rather than relying on the government to force us to do the moral thing.

I should not be forced to pay for your health problems, I should WANT to help you when you have a problem.
Is that an economic problem, or a moral problem, or an ideological problem?

Who should pay for your broken furnace, or AC? the government, your neighbors, the individual? Did it break because you neglected it, or mistreated it, or did it just wear out. Does it matter?
Do you see the analogy of paying for problems? It could apply to all kinds of problems in society.

When other people pay for your misfortune, it is socialism, isn't it?
Welfare is socialism, isn't it?
Is insurance socialism?
Why does the government have to be the insurance company?
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[corny]

As a christian nation we are just not going to throw people out of the emergency room back onto the street or send people home without care who are ill.

Everyone is going to have to go to the doctor at some point and some of these folks either cant pay because they dont have money or they cant pay because they are children...... I dont mind helping these folks as I am a christian and I do harbor at least a little compassion for my fellow man.

I just wish they would step up and do something to curtail the fraud and waste that has infected the system for so long.

Good for nothing sobs who abuse the system.......healthcare providers and others who cheat the system out of money....

If we could get rid of the fraud and waste health insurance would be cheaper for all of us and even those who cant afford to pay wouldnt be so much of a burden.

Ive never heard anyone complain about having to carry auto insurance.....and the whole reason we are forced to carry it is because of these jagoffs who dont buy it....yet continue to drive.

There again...... they dont do anything to curtail people from driving without insurance...the government is fine with letting those of us who are honest and hard working pay for the slackers.

[cehs]

It was brought up to the SCOTUS that the government doesn't FORCE people to have auto insurance, why should the government FINE people for not having health insurance.
I just cannot afford to pay for slackers that won't do what is right to stay healthy, get healthy, or not experiment with drugs.
This mandate, or fine, if you do not have health insurance is just not right.
The doctors have to restrict what they charge for medicare patients, should we be restricted for what we charge for repairing furnaces and ACs?
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[BACnet]

So the reason the government can make drivers have auto insurance is because driving is a privilege, not a right. So if your are driving without insurance, the government can slap you with fines or worse.

But if the government decides that as a citizen you have to have health insurance just to live, does that mean that they have implicitly defined living as a privilege?

I used to think that was a right...

[ControlsInMT]

Hey cehs, the main difference I see, and I think Corny was addressing it, is the people you want to help almost never ask for help. The socialist mentality is the same as the "whats in it for me" group of today. Tommy has a new rock, why can't I have a new rock? The great entitlement train of thought!

[netsalt]

The socialism bit is really getting tired. Our health care system has been based on a purely capitalist system of pay as you go - if you can't then just die. It hasn't worked, as Americans we pay more for health care than most other developed nations and receive mediocre care for our money. The individual mandate was first proposed by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, it was heralded by the Repubs of the time to be the solution to the skyrocketing prices but now since someone else has proposed the idea it is socialism and the worst possible thing that could happen to this country. I say we drop it all and go with a single payer system run by an independent insurer with government oversight similar to other democatic (small d) countries.

[ControlsInMT]

True enough netsalt. However the problem is they want to include all of those not paying taxes.