Working their gun control magic in Florida

[wolfstrike]

so this black kid Tryvon was most likely caught doing something and this Hispanic guy Zimmerman shoots him.

the media and their action groups look at this and say "this looks like a clear-cut case that we can get involved in and try to overturn Second Amendment gun rights and self-defense laws in Florida"

the first thing they do is say "what if this kid was white? nah nah nah"

Tryvon's girlfriend says he was saying someone was following him,
...she was on the phone with him and telling him to run away,
now they release 911 tapes of -someone- screaming for help before there was a gun shot.

the media and their action groups don't care about this kid, they just want to pass their totalitarian gun laws.

where was the media attention a couple of months ago when the police kicked in someones door in a drug raid and killed an innocent bystander?
the media has no problem with the government killing people.

this issue isn't about Florida's gun laws, the issue is whether or not this guy used excessive force.



the bottom line is, gun rights are protected by the Constitution, establishment of police departments is not.

[tunnel_rat]

Exactly right.... and with a hispanic on black crime, now that puts the wrench in the ointment....where do we go from here?

[Tool-Slinger]

so this black kid Tryvon was most likely caught doing something and this Hispanic guy Zimmerman shoots him.

the media and their action groups look at this and say "this looks like a clear-cut case that we can get involved in and try to overturn Second Amendment gun rights and self-defense laws in Florida"

the first thing they do is say "what if this kid was white? nah nah nah"

Tryvon's girlfriend says he was saying someone was following him,
...she was on the phone with him and telling him to run away,
now they release 911 tapes of -someone- screaming for help before there was a gun shot.

the media and their action groups don't care about this kid, they just want to pass their totalitarian gun laws.

where was the media attention a couple of months ago when the police kicked in someones door in a drug raid and killed an innocent bystander?
the media has no problem with the government killing people.

this issue isn't about Florida's gun laws, the issue is whether or not this guy used excessive force.



the bottom line is, gun rights are protected by the Constitution, establishment of police departments is not.
Great post wolf, this has become a media circus for gun-ban activists and minority activists regardless of any facts right or wrong.

[tunnel_rat]

Circus is RIGHT.... And everybody loves a clown, huh?

[corny]

Zimmerman went beyond the scope of his neighborhood watch position......and he used excessive force against an unarmed young man half his size.

He is a coward....... I dont know what is going to happen to him.....but I hope he has to live out the rest of his life in shame over what he did.

[infwsdm]

They're using the racial angle so the feds can 'join the circus'

[Tool-Slinger]

Circus is RIGHT.... And everybody loves a clown, huh?
Wolf has a long history of exposing clowns. I think he is a tad demented, not that I have any stones to throw from my glass house, but he seems to have an unusual ability to put things into a logical perspective. Reminds me of? Rush Limbaugh. Ability to 'think outside the box'.

Wolf, once again, has made a profound and significant point.

[Tool-Slinger]

Zimmerman went beyond the scope of his neighborhood watch position......and he used excessive force against an unarmed young man half his size.

He is a coward....... I dont know what is going to happen to him.....but I hope he has to live out the rest of his life in shame over what he did.
You missed the point of topic. This has become a political/legal football.

[Hugh B]

What if the shooter had been a police officer rather than a citizen? Would the chief have lost his job? Would the liberal media be having such a great time over this?

My position is if the shooter did what a police officer would be expected to do then he probably did nothing illegal. Not saying that officers always do the right thing, just using the argument to see if people would view this differently had the shooter been an officer.

I like to use the "reasonable man" argument. What would a reasonable man have done in this situtation? Would the shooters actions have been reasonable if the shooter had been an officer? If so, then the shooter should not be charged or tried and the chief should not have been driven out of office.

[netsalt]

First, he is NOT a law enforcement officer, second he was told by law enforcement to back off, third this kid is half his size and was unarmed. Seems as if this guy has some explaining to do. I don't understand everything about this stand your ground law but it would stand to reason that he would be held at least for questioning if nothing else. If this is the way it is supposed to work all I have to do after I shoot someone is say "self defense" and I get to walk away without questions while carrying my firearm.

[ControlsInMT]

Sure seems like there is more to the story here than we are seeing....

[coolwhip]

In any case, maybe he saved the tax payers of Florida lots of dough by taking out a future felon.:whistle:

There is always a bright side ya know!

[ControlsInMT]

Being "neighborhood watch", he was probably correct in following the guy. It was someone he didn't know walking in the neighborhood. After that......

[Hugh B]

My wife was walking home this week in the evening and was followed. After she entered the house someone was tapping on our side window and then left.

There are all sorts of strange people not from our neighborhoods up to no good. I can see why this man had real concerns with this kid and followed him to find out what he was up to.

One does not have to be a police officer to investigate strange behavior. If he followed the kid and was attacked he had a right to self-defense. Yes, there is a lot of missing information but he is not guilty of anything until a court of law rules. The police and local prosecutor know more than we do and they have the power to decide on the facts to not charge him regardless of public opinion.

If he did what would be expected of a police officer in the same situtation then there is not reason to charge him.

[Tool-Slinger]

What if the shooter had been a police officer rather than a citizen? Would the chief have lost his job? Would the liberal media be having such a great time over this?

My position is if the shooter did what a police officer would be expected to do then he probably did nothing illegal. Not saying that officers always do the right thing, just using the argument to see if people would view this differently had the shooter been an officer.

I like to use the "reasonable man" argument. What would a reasonable man have done in this situtation? Would the shooters actions have been reasonable if the shooter had been an officer? If so, then the shooter should not be charged or tried and the chief should not have been driven out of office.
Excellent question. I am inclined to think it would have been the same big deal if it were a white police officer.

As of this morning on CNN there are reports of dozens of school walk-outs/protests, 4 more this morning and Obama has weighed in on it. I missed his comments.

Farakkan and Sharpton on the job, the whole thing is boiling up to a riot situation if the dominoes fall right.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/03/obama-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon-118439.html

Presidential comments.

I wonder how long it will take the anti-gun/gun-law folks to get vocal?

[WebCTRL]

My wife was walking home this week in the evening and was followed. After she entered the house someone was tapping on our side window and then left.

There are all sorts of strange people not from our neighborhoods up to no good. I can see why this man had real concerns with this kid and followed him to find out what he was up to.

One does not have to be a police officer to investigate strange behavior. If he followed the kid and was attacked he had a right to self-defense. Yes, there is a lot of missing information but he is not guilty of anything until a court of law rules. The police and local prosecutor know more than we do and they have the power to decide on the facts to not charge him regardless of public opinion.

If he did what would be expected of a police officer in the same situtation then there is not reason to charge him.

Maybe I missed something but with these liberal squawkers all calling for "justice", the firing of the police chief and for the Neighborhood watch guy to be put in jail, what are the facts? They just know a black kid is dead, right? What else is known at this point as fact? I've heard the spin, but I haven't seen any facts about what really happened.

Are there any real facts out about it?

[infwsdm]

Being "neighborhood watch", he was probably correct in following the guy. It was someone he didn't know walking in the neighborhood. After that......

it's neighborhood WATCH. Not neighborhood follow someone because YOU don't know them and shoot them.

[infwsdm]

One does not have to be a police officer to investigate strange behavior. If he followed the kid and was attacked he had a right to self-defense.



One should call a police officer to investigate 'strange behavior'. NOT 'take the law in their own hands'

If your walking down the street and scratch your balls, does that constitute 'strange behavior' or that you simply had an itch.

[the mojo]

Mary Cutcher's statement to the police was she did not want to get involved.

Her report is inconsistant to her statement in the local press.

It has been reported that Zimmerman's back was wet,and had grass stains on him because of the rain at the time.

Zimmerman it has been reported to have received a bloody nose and bleeding from a wound from the back of his skull.

More investigation will be required at this time.

[pbharvey]

If this us what happened, it would make sense.
http:// http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012)

It makes no sense that Zimmerman hunted the kid down, killed him and didn't get arrested.

[glennac]

If this us what happened, it would make sense.
http:// http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012)

It makes no sense that Zimmerman hunted the kid down, killed him and didn't get arrested.

Yeah the leftest press won't print this. The only eyewitness says that Zimmerman was knocked to the ground and Martin was pounding him and Zimmerman was the one hollering for help.

That makes sense. Anyhow why is anyone wearing a hoodie in warm weather unless he is a hood:grin2:. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

I am reading a lot of really insulting comments being made on this thread. Insulting because they are all heresay and opinions being made in very biase ways.

What if we try sticking to only the facts first?

Zimmerman was an armed man who has had complaints from his community about being too aggressive.
Martin was an unarmed youth walking through the neighborhood while talking to a girl on the phone with a bag of Skittles in his possession.
It was raining.
Martin was wearing a hoodie, just like 50 billion other people wear hoodies.
Zimmerman was told by a 911 operator that he should not continue to follow Martin.
Zimmerman and Martin become engaged.
Zimmerman and Martin are heard in a conflict. One of them is screaming for help.

Those are the facts.

There is now an eyewitness who alleges that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman on the ground and that Zimmerman was screaming for help just before the gunshot that kills Martin is heard.

It is a rainy night. How does the eyewitness know who is screaming?

How about this?;

Zimmerman approaches Martin with his gun drawn, after being told by 911 operator not to continue persuing Martin.
Martin freaks out over having someone come at him with a gun and attacks Zimmerman in an attempt to get the gun away from him.
The two of them go down to the ground while Martin screams for someone to help him with this man who has pulled a gun on him.
Zimmerman shoots Martin.
Or, does anyone really think it sounds more reasonable that an already angry Zimmerman, who has a gun and ignores the 911 operators telling him to not continue following Martin, approaches Martin....who suddenly attacks Zimmerman...for what ever irrational reason....and macho Zimmerman with a gun starts screaming for help?

Oh, and I wear a hoodie on rainy Summer days.

[RoBoTeq]

Mary Cutcher's statement to the police was she did not want to get involved.

Her report is inconsistant to her statement in the local press.

It has been reported that Zimmerman's back was wet,and had grass stains on him because of the rain at the time.

Zimmerman it has been reported to have received a bloody nose and bleeding from a wound from the back of his skull.

More investigation will be required at this time.
If some guy with a gun approaches you on a rainy night while you are walking home, talking to your girlfriend on the phone....what are you going to do?

If that gunman gets close enough to you for you to try to grab the gun and maybe knock this guy down and even try to punch the guys lights out before he can shoot you....would you do that?

[the mojo]

If some guy with a gun approaches you on a rainy night while you are walking home, talking to your girlfriend on the phone....what are you going to do?

If that gunman gets close enough to you for you to try to grab the gun and maybe knock this guy down and even try to punch the guys lights out before he can shoot you....would you do that?

Run alot faster than Zimmerman.:cheers:

[wolfstrike]

the point of this thread is the media and the activist groups don't care who got shot , they're goal is to overturn this "stand your ground" law.
everyone in America should be on-guard because Florida doesn't need a "stand your ground" law.
it's the right of every American under the Constitution to defend yourself.

Florida's "stand your ground" law was just a reaffirmation of what the Constitution already says.

the black kid is dead, the Hispanic is going to jail, the government doesn't give a rat's ass about either one of them, and YOU'RE the one who will lose your Constitutional rights

[Tool-Slinger]

the point of this thread is the media and the activist groups don't care who got shot , they're goal is to overturn this "stand your ground" law.
everyone in America should be on-guard because Florida doesn't need a "stand your ground" law.
it's the right of every American under the Constitution to defend yourself.

Florida's "stand your ground" law was just a reaffirmation of what the Constitution already says.

the black kid is dead, the Hispanic is going to jail, the government doesn't give a rat's ass about either one of them, and YOU'RE the one who will lose your Constitutional rights
I am not so sure the hispanic guy is going to jail, but the rest of your post is a home-run spot-on great post.

Our constitutional rights are under attack, the martin/zimmerman incident is just a tool.

[glennac]

I am reading a lot of really insulting comments being made on this thread. Insulting because they are all heresay and opinions being made in very biase ways.

What if we try sticking to only the facts first?

Zimmerman was an armed man who has had complaints from his community about being too aggressive.
Martin was an unarmed youth walking through the neighborhood while talking to a girl on the phone with a bag of Skittles in his possession.
It was raining.
Martin was wearing a hoodie, just like 50 billion other people wear hoodies.
Zimmerman was told by a 911 operator that he should not continue to follow Martin.
Zimmerman and Martin become engaged.
Zimmerman and Martin are heard in a conflict. One of them is screaming for help.

Those are the facts.

There is now an eyewitness who alleges that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman on the ground and that Zimmerman was screaming for help just before the gunshot that kills Martin is heard.

It is a rainy night. How does the eyewitness know who is screaming?

How about this?;

Zimmerman approaches Martin with his gun drawn, after being told by 911 operator not to continue persuing Martin.
Martin freaks out over having someone come at him with a gun and attacks Zimmerman in an attempt to get the gun away from him.
The two of them go down to the ground while Martin screams for someone to help him with this man who has pulled a gun on him.
Zimmerman shoots Martin.

Or, does anyone really think it sounds more reasonable that an already angry Zimmerman, who has a gun and ignores the 911 operators telling him to not continue following Martin, approaches Martin....who suddenly attacks Zimmerman...for what ever irrational reason....and macho Zimmerman with a gun starts screaming for help?

Oh, and I wear a hoodie on rainy Summer days.

OK robo it appears you believe that my post before yours was insulting and biased. Now lets look at the facts from another prospective. The youth was 17 and most likely in great physical shape, Zimmerman on the other hand looks like he might be out of shape.

Granted he should have stayed in the car and just watch what the dude was up to. However he did get out of the car. What is to say that words were exchanged and Martin went off on Zimmerman and got the first blow to the Zimmerman's nads and knocked him to the ground and was pounding him and it was just like the only witness said? Then Zimmerman hollered help and pulled his gun out and shot.

You appear to assume there were no lights and or the rain was so hard that the witness couldn't see nothing and or that he was a certified Klan member and lied out of his teeth because he hated Blacks and wanted Martin to be killed? I don't believe that nor would most reasonable folks believe that was the case. So I will stand with the only eye witness until proven different.

If you want to believe that is insulting and biased then you have that right. I don't think I was. Now just for the record I wasn't aware that it was "raining" because the press report I read didn't mention it was raining however that doesn't change the "facts" on this case.:.02: Thank you, thank you very much

[hearthman]

Who has any real facts in this case? None of you! Why not give it a rest and let the truth come out in court? Then you can argue its merits based upon FACTS.

The only value in this thread is the original issue of people taking incidents and issues then twisting them to their own political motives. Obama, Sharpie, Jesse, etc. all need to SHUT UP and let our judicial system do its job. I think we need to do the same with regards to what happened and who did what.

I've heard and read a few comments about the size difference btw combatants. You people have no clue what you are talking about. A small child can pull a trigger. Take it from one who worked in streets as a paramedic and saw daily the 'knife & gun club's' handiwork. You never know who is packing a weapon and who is crazy enough to use it on another human being.

To all you jurors who have already convicted Zimmerman, how are you going to feel if the facts in the case show this kid was high on dope, acting suspiciously as reported by more witnesses yet to come forth and that he-not Zimmerman, was the aggressor? It may not be but again, you don't have the facts so why waste everyone's energy on totally useless banter. The only real issue again is the after assault---on our rights.

[glennac]

How about some current pictures of the Zimmerman and Martin. The media as always shows their bias whenever possible. Thank you very much

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/glennac8/LiveLeak-dot-com-b1981678b9d1-eft0wjpgresized.jpg

[newoldtech]

Who has any real facts in this case? None of you! Why not give it a rest and let the truth come out in court? Then you can argue its merits based upon FACTS.

The only value in this thread is the original issue of people taking incidents and issues then twisting them to their own political motives. Obama, Sharpie, Jesse, etc. all need to SHUT UP and let our judicial system do its job. I think we need to do the same with regards to what happened and who did what.

I've heard and read a few comments about the size difference btw combatants. You people have no clue what you are talking about. A small child can pull a trigger. Take it from one who worked in streets as a paramedic and saw daily the 'knife & gun club's' handiwork. You never know who is packing a weapon and who is crazy enough to use it on another human being.

To all you jurors who have already convicted Zimmerman, how are you going to feel if the facts in the case show this kid was high on dope, acting suspiciously as reported by more witnesses yet to come forth and that he-not Zimmerman, was the aggressor? It may not be but again, you don't have the facts so why waste everyone's energy on totally useless banter. The only real issue again is the after assault---on our rights.


What we are doing here is what people always do. Discussing current events. We are debating the issues with whatever information we currently have. I dont think anyone here is claiming to know exactly what happened. Most of us are not convicting or exonerating anyone. We, like most people, start talking about things when they happen. And we will continue to talk about it as the facts come in. And even if down the road a jury does decide something we will probably talk about whether or not we agree with that decision. Thats what people do.

[glennac]

What we are doing here is what people always do. Discussing current events. We are debating the issues with whatever information we currently have. I dont think anyone here is claiming to know exactly what happened. Most of us are not convicting or exonerating anyone. We like most people, start talking about things when they happen. And we will continue to talk about it as the facts come in.

Good reply there tech. This is what ARP is all about, discussing what's going on and expressing our opinions which differ sometimes.

The only thing I think we need to be careful of is making off the cuff charges against one's character because they may disagree with you. Just argue your case and let it go.

That is how I see it. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

the point of this thread is the media and the activist groups don't care who got shot , they're goal is to overturn this "stand your ground" law.
everyone in America should be on-guard because Florida doesn't need a "stand your ground" law.
it's the right of every American under the Constitution to defend yourself.

Florida's "stand your ground" law was just a reaffirmation of what the Constitution already says.

the black kid is dead, the Hispanic is going to jail, the government doesn't give a rat's ass about either one of them, and YOU'RE the one who will lose your Constitutional rights
It is a shame, but this killing has become a tool for several agendas.

The gun did not kill Martin, Zimmerman did. Zimmerman abused his right to carry a gun and Zimmerman needs to be tried, not the gun laws. Yes, the media and the leftist Socialists who want to disarm Americans are going to try to make the gun the issue, but it is not.

Had Zimmerman been properly arrested and formally charged and questioned, this would not have become such a circus for all of the clowns to be appearing in.

[RoBoTeq]

OK robo it appears you believe that my post before yours was insulting and biased. Now lets look at the facts from another prospective. The youth was 17 and most likely in great physical shape, Zimmerman on the other hand looks like he might be out of shape.

Granted he should have stayed in the car and just watch what the dude was up to. However he did get out of the car. What is to say that words were exchanged and Martin went off on Zimmerman and got the first blow to the Zimmerman's nads and knocked him to the ground and was pounding him and it was just like the only witness said? Then Zimmerman hollered help and pulled his gun out and shot.

You appear to assume there were no lights and or the rain was so hard that the witness couldn't see nothing and or that he was a certified Klan member and lied out of his teeth because he hated Blacks and wanted Martin to be killed? I don't believe that nor would most reasonable folks believe that was the case. So I will stand with the only eye witness until proven different.

If you want to believe that is insulting and biased then you have that right. I don't think I was. Now just for the record I wasn't aware that it was "raining" because the press report I read didn't mention it was raining however that doesn't change the "facts" on this case.:.02: Thank you, thank you very much
Glenn, I have told you before that due to your ability to misinterpret most of what I post, I refuse to get into these discussions with you directly.

My opinion is that many of your opinions are the reason we have racial contraversies just as much as the Al Sharptons and Obama opinions are.

[RoBoTeq]

Who has any real facts in this case? None of you! Why not give it a rest and let the truth come out in court? Then you can argue its merits based upon FACTS.

The only value in this thread is the original issue of people taking incidents and issues then twisting them to their own political motives. Obama, Sharpie, Jesse, etc. all need to SHUT UP and let our judicial system do its job. I think we need to do the same with regards to what happened and who did what.

I've heard and read a few comments about the size difference btw combatants. You people have no clue what you are talking about. A small child can pull a trigger. Take it from one who worked in streets as a paramedic and saw daily the 'knife & gun club's' handiwork. You never know who is packing a weapon and who is crazy enough to use it on another human being.

To all you jurors who have already convicted Zimmerman, how are you going to feel if the facts in the case show this kid was high on dope, acting suspiciously as reported by more witnesses yet to come forth and that he-not Zimmerman, was the aggressor? It may not be but again, you don't have the facts so why waste everyone's energy on totally useless banter. The only real issue again is the after assault---on our rights.
The initial problem with this incident is that the justice system did not take the very first steps in properly handling this case. There is no reason that Zimmerman was not arrested for formal questioning and charges.

When I was jumped by two guys in a Dunkin Donut's years ago, and I tossed one through the plate glass window, I was still arrested....despite a dozen eyewitnesses to the fact that I was the one who was jumped. It was a matter of process and it allowed me to pursue legal action against my assailants afterward. There is no logical reason why Zimmerman was not taken into custody.

[the mojo]

It is of my opinion that deadly force was not authorized in this instance.
We do not know that as the fight continued,if Martin tried to gain control of the gun.
The facts are grey and fuzzy and need to be sorted out and they will.

[printer2]

I do not know too much about what happened but I figure if your life is not in danger you do not have to shoot anyone (unless someone else is in danger). Keeping a safe distance from another person can keep you out of danger unless the other person has a gun. I can not see confronting a person not committing a crime and putting yourself in danger so that you have to use your gun as being justified. Of course there will always be exceptions.

I would not look at someone who commits a robbery and shoots someone in the process of being innocent in the killing of the other person. 'Hey, I never meant to shoot anyone, I just wanted to rob him. He turned on me and I had to defend myself.'

[corny]

Looks like he could be charged.....over something he said on dispatch tapes.

Thats funny to me...... you can kill a guy as long as you dont call him a ni**er.

[RoBoTeq]

It is of my opinion that deadly force was not authorized in this instance.
We do not know that as the fight continued,if Martin tried to gain control of the gun.
The facts are grey and fuzzy and need to be sorted out and they will.
If I was Martin, I sure would have wanted to get control of the gun that some guy I didn't know was pointing at me.

[RoBoTeq]

Looks like he could be charged.....over something he said on dispatch tapes.

Thats funny to me...... you can kill a guy as long as you dont call him a ni**er.
They are just looking for a way to wriggle out of the fact that they screwed up by not arresting Zimmerman in the first place.

Sounds like the girlfriend was on the phone right up to the point where Zimmerman confronted Martin. Somethings not right about this guy, Zimmerman. We are being told he is married, but there is nothing about he and his wife being together. I thought I had read that Zimmerman was living with his father in that development. And just what is a "self appointed watchman?".

[RoBoTeq]

Just found some background on Zimmerman.

His father is a retired judge.

He has had incidences of poor judgement in the past, including assaulting an officer arresting a friend, resisting arrest and domestic violence with his wife.

Sounds like daddy has been protecting this guy for some time; http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120323,0,6326075.story

[glennac]

Glenn, I have told you before that due to your ability to misinterpret most of what I post, I refuse to get into these discussions with you directly.

My opinion is that many of your opinions are the reason we have racial contraversies just as much as the Al Sharptons and Obama opinions are.

Funny robo the only thing I said was that there was a witness who stated that Martin attacked Zimmerman and for that you call me insulting and biased.

I then give an explanation in simple terms how Zimmerman could have been jumped by Martin while agreeing that should have not go out of the car, just like you explained why Martin was the victim. I did this with out calling you names or insulting your character and for this you accuse me of being like Sharpton and Obama.

With friends like you I sure don't need enemies. If you can't argue your case against mine and just want to resort to attacks, then I suggest you don't reply to my posts. I haven't replied to any of your posts other than yours directed at me but you sure like to reply to mine.

I have refrained from debating you on your posts for some time because of your sensitivity and basically you can't handle it.

Well now it appears that if I post something contrary to your hollowed beliefs you won't dispute it you just attack me for having an opinion contrary to yours. You go ahead and put a spin if you like on this but that is the truth. I will continue to refrain from commenting on your posts and I might add in the distant past when I did it was in a respectful manner. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

And once again, Glenn, you start making mountains out of molehills. This is why I will not address you directly any longer.

As for George Zimmerman, the more about this man that is being withheld, the more I get the feeling that his judge daddy is pulling all sorts of strings for him.....again.


Zimmerman is not the owner of the house he lives in, in the developement he appointed himself watchdog of. There is nothing in the news as to who owns the house.
Zimmerman is claimed to be married, but no mention of the wife or whether they are still together.
There is no job listing for Zimmerman, so he may be unemployed or trying to keep creditors from garnishing his wages again.
Zimmerman was charged for attacking an officer and resisting arrest, which hid daddy was his attorney for, getting Zimmerman slaps on the wrist.
Zimmerman had a domestic violence charge against him from a previous fiance.

All in all, Zimmerman does not sound like a very stable guy.

On the other hand, Martin, a minor, was suspended from school for reasons that no one is telling.....must be because he was really a bad apple who deserved being killed.

[stonefly]

robo, good observations.it doesn't look like either party was quite right. doesn't matter, nor doe's who was wearing what or what zimmermans reason for being there was if he wasn't a cop. he confronted/followed the thug/kid. the kid responded first then ran .(probably saw the gun) zimmerman chased him with a gun. kid beat him down and was killed. murder, he's responsible for the result of being there with a gun. wannabe cop and the ex cop (cheif) will probably both do time. it is the kid that was defending himself. if the kid had smashed four car windows and an old womens head with a bat in front of zimmerman first it would make no difference. murder. true his only other option was likely being killed with his own gun, doesn't matter he was the armed attacker. murder.

[newoldtech]

. if the kid had smashed four car windows and an old womens head with a bat in front of zimmerman first it would make no difference. murder. true his only other option was likely being killed with his own gun, doesn't matter he was the armed attacker. murder.

I dont agree with this. If Martin had smashed an old womans head with a bat and Zimmerman did what he did, he would probably be tauted as a hero now. Sure there could still be an investigation of what happened but public sentiment would be close to 100% on his side. Huge difference between someone smashing a woman in the head with a bat and someone, many think was just walking home carrying a bag of skittles.

[coolwhip]

Maybe the judge in this case will call upon Robo's magic 8 ball deductive reasoning skills.

[stonefly]

if zimmerman had shot the kid to "prevent" him bashing a woman with a bat no problem. after the fact,chase him down & shoot him? murder.

[WebCTRL]

The initial problem with this incident is that the justice system did not take the very first steps in properly handling this case. There is no reason that Zimmerman was not arrested for formal questioning and charges.

When I was jumped by two guys in a Dunkin Donut's years ago, and I tossed one through the plate glass window, I was still arrested....despite a dozen eyewitnesses to the fact that I was the one who was jumped. It was a matter of process and it allowed me to pursue legal action against my assailants afterward. There is no logical reason why Zimmerman was not taken into custody.

Robo, I believe that you'll learn more on this case that shows why Zimmerman was not arrested. Not sure what state you were in when you were jumped in a Dunkin' Donuts but with eyewitness statements to that affect, I know in my State, Florida, GA and AL, that wouldn't have happened. Plus, you should've gone to a Krispy Kreme, then it wouldn't have happened.

As far as Zimmerman and Martin, I believe that the witness did come out earlier to the police and that the police did confirm that the screams for help on the phone, were the screams of Zimmerman. Anyway, I believe you have been just as guilty as many of us in passing judgment before all the facts are known. They wouldn't arrest you for questioning anyway, right? Maybe detain you for a few hours, days, months or years now...

Just my :.02:'s worth...

[RoBoTeq]

Maybe the judge in this case will call upon Robo's magic 8 ball deductive reasoning skills.
There is nothing magical about reasoning. I don't profess to know any more then anyone else knows about what happened that night other then what is on record of fact with the 911 call.

The fact that no one really knows what occurred after Zimmerman, an armed and self appointed watchdog, dismissed the advice of a 911 operator to not pursue Martin....killed the unarmed Martin with his gun...is why Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged so a trial could attempt to figure out what did actually happen.

Now, as little by little more and more drivel comes out, Zimmerman is claiming that Martin did try to get control of Zimmerman's gun. Why? How did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun if Zimmerman was not using his gun to intimidate Martin?

Just listen to Zimmerman's "friend" and attorney on this video; http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

Would you buy a used car from either of these men? They sound like they are making some of this stuff up as they go along. And why are we not hearing from George Zimmerman? WHY?! Because his father is a retired judge who is orchestrating a legal front to protect him....THAT'S WHY!

I just love Zimmerman's attorney stating that more 911 tapes and more eyewitness's and more evidence is going to show up in defense of Zimmerman. WHEN? When Zimmerman's judge father figures out a way to have it all fabricated....that's when.

This isn't about race, it's about class and who has the most money and clout to buy the best defense.

Too many people are shielding George Zimmerman. Zimmerman has a sketchy past history even with having a father who has covered up for him over the years. Martin hadn't even had time to have much of a past.

[newoldtech]

if zimmerman had shot the kid to "prevent" him bashing a woman with a bat no problem. after the fact,chase him down & shoot him? murder.

There is whats known as a "fleeing felon". And that would present a very strong defense to someone who chased and shot someone who just hit a lady over the head with a baseball bat. As that person could easily be deemed a danger to society. And shooting him so he doesn't get away on behalf of protecting society from potential further attacks would be a strong argument. None of this has anything to do with the Martin case so I'll leave it at that, and keep the focus on this particular case for now. But its a good topic for a future time and debate.

[RoBoTeq]

Robo, I believe that you'll learn more on this case that shows why Zimmerman was not arrested. Not sure what state you were in when you were jumped in a Dunkin' Donuts but with eyewitness statements to that affect, I know in my State, Florida, GA and AL, that wouldn't have happened. Plus, you should've gone to a Krispy Kreme, then it wouldn't have happened.

As far as Zimmerman and Martin, I believe that the witness did come out earlier to the police and that the police did confirm that the screams for help on the phone, were the screams of Zimmerman. Anyway, I believe you have been just as guilty as many of us in passing judgment before all the facts are known. They wouldn't arrest you for questioning anyway, right? Maybe detain you for a few hours, days, months or years now...

Just my :.02:'s worth...In Maryland, where my Dunkin Donut's incident occured (Before Krispy Kreme existed), I believe one can be held for up to 72 hours with reasonable cause without being arrested. I am not even certain about whether my "arrest" was an actual arrest or taking into custody. The 8 foot square pain of glass that I tossed the one guy through came down on my hand and chopped it up pretty good. The officer "detained, arrested....whatever" me to escort the ambulance taking me to the hospital and then the officer stayed with me while I go over 75 stitches in my right hand.

Either way, the family of a youth who was killed deserves to have a trial since there was no crime being committed when Zimmerman approached Martin.

[RoBoTeq]

Let's try to put this is chronological order. Please correct anything I am not accurate about;


Martin buys Skittles and a tea at a convenience store
It is raining and at night.
Martin is walking home (to his father's house) through a gated community that according to photos is pretty well open to traffic.
Zimmerman is patrolling the community and spots Martin
Martin is talking to girlfriend on phone
Martin has his hood up because it is raining
Zimmerman calls 911 to complain about Martin
Zimmerman is told that he should not continue to follow Martin
Martin tells girlfriend someone is following him
Girlfriend says she hear's Martin ask Zimmerman why he is following him
Girlfriend says she hear's Zimmerman question Martin as to what he is doing there
Girlfriend says phone goes dead at this point
WHAT HAPPENED?

Zimmerman told 911 operator Martin was running.
Girlfriend does not indicate that Martin was ever running
If Martin was running, Zimmerman must have chased him
Zimmerman says Martin went for his (Zimmerman's) gun.
WAS THE GUN DRAWN? How would Martin know about the gun if Zimmerman was not displaying it? Was Martin afraid he was being robbed or otherwise assaulted because some guy who was following him approached him with a gun?

Zimmerman says Martin hit him in the nose, knocked him down and was beating his head on the ground. COULD MARTIN BEAT ZIMMERMAN'S HEAD ON THE GROUND WHILE TRYING TO GET CONTROL OF THE GUN?
Zimmerman kills Martin.
Nothing about Zimmerman's claims.....all through other people, sound credible. Are others protecting Zimmerman from perjury by making all second hand statements that Zimmerman can later change as needed by claiming he was misunderstood by those who are speaking for him (Zimmerman)? I think so. I think Zimmerman's judge daddy is making all of the plays for Zimmerman right now.

[stonefly]

[QUOTE=newoldtech;12815671]There is whats known as a "fleeing felon". And that would present a very strong defense to someone who chased and shot someone who just hit a lady over the head with a baseball bat. As that person could easily be deemed a danger to society. And shooting him so he doesn't get away on behalf of protecting society from potential further attacks would be a strong argument. None of this has anything to do with the Martin case so I'll leave it at that, and keep the focus on this particular case for now. But its a good topic for a future time and debate.[/QUOTE

i see your point, it's a lot ambiguous when applied to my example. in general use of deadly force legally is limited to protecting yours or another persons life life. self defence ain't going to fly here.

[jmac00]

ok, lets go back and rethink this.

what do we know? ONLY what the MEDIA HAS TOLD US.

and yet it seems the entire country has all ready Tried and Convicted Mr Z

<sarcasm on> Now we have the very Politically correct and responsible Black Panthers calling for a posse to go find MrZ and "bring him to justice" AND they have offered a $10,000 bounty.

also the lovely and oh so gentle Louis Farrakhan wants MrZ dead to <sarcasm off>

So it seems the Black Panthers and Farrakhan WANT gun battle, because they DID just give MrZ a VERY GOOD REASON to defend himself.

heres is what MUST HAPPEN quickly.

The DA must convene a Grand Jury, NOW and look into the facts of the case. I just heard that the DA is convening a grand jury next month (which maybe to late)

I seriously doubt MrZ can get a fair trail now anyway

The media and the rest of the country must STOP the BS, without the facts they don't know squat.

Mr Z has been and continues to be in contact with the police and (through his lawyer)has said he is available and ready to answer questions at their convenience.

As Rahm Emanuel put it: "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

This is the very essence of the anti-gun crowds being.

That fact is, the hand gun is used 2.5 MILLION TIMES every year to protect innocent lives, many time without firing a shot. The mere presence of a hand gun has deterred many crimes


So EVERYONE, take a step back and let the justice system do what it was designed to do

[jmac00]

And now it seems Mr Martin is not the Saint everyone WANTS him to be:

uuuum, I wonder why?

http://patdollard.com/2012/03/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealing-gangbanger/

[RoBoTeq]

And now it seems Mr Martin is not the Saint everyone WANTS him to be:

uuuum, I wonder why?

http://patdollard.com/2012/03/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealing-gangbanger/
Talk about profiling....C'mon, Jeff. I don't care if Martin was Al Capone, if Zimmerman had not confronted him with a gun, there would have been no issue that night.

At 17 years old, most of my friends in school were wearing local gang jackets or like me, looking like the kind of person my parents were telling me to stay away from.

Martin was still a kid. He was still in school. He was unarmed and now he is dead. It did not have to happen.

[jmac00]

Talk about profiling....C'mon, Jeff. I don't care if Martin was Al Capone, if Zimmerman had not confronted him with a gun, there would have been no issue that night.

At 17 years old, most of my friends in school were wearing local gang jackets or like me, looking like the kind of person my parents were telling me to stay away from.

Martin was still a kid. He was still in school. He was unarmed and now he is dead. It did not have to happen.

and yet here we are still debating "what happened" without knowing ALL THE FACTS.

You and the rest of the country are making unsubstantiated accusations based on media reports.

Why not let the Justice system do what it was designed to do. Mr.Z is not going anywhere and is in contact with police.

It may turn out the Mr.Z did in fact commit murder. But until the Justice system says otherwise, Mr.Z at this point in time is still innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BY A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE.

so everyone should stand down until ALL THE FACTS ARE PRESENTED

[RoBoTeq]

and yet here we are still debating "what happened" without knowing ALL THE FACTS.

You and the rest of the country are making unsubstantiated accusations based on media reports.

Why not let the Justice system do what it was designed to do. Mr.Z is not going anywhere and is in contact with police.

It may turn out the Mr.Z did in fact commit murder. But until the Justice system says otherwise, Mr.Z at this point in time is still innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BY A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE.

so everyone should stand down until ALL THE FACTS ARE PRESENTED
I have not made any accusations whatsoever, Jeff. I have posted scenarios that could have occurred to point out that the justice system screwed up with not taking Zimmerman into custody, by not testing Zimmerman for drug or alcohol use, for not treating the scene of this killing as a possible crime scene.

Suddenly there are "other" 911 tapes and "other" eyewitnesses that the police "overlooked".....give me a break, this reaks of a coverup.

The whole reason for the nation being upset over this incident is that the justice system has so far not done it's job. No one is convicting Zimmerman. We don't know what actually happened because Zimmerman is being protected and Martin is dead.

All I'm stating is that this whold thing reaks of a cover up for Zimmerman. Zimmerman's past records strongly indicate that his Judge father has kept Zimmerman from past convictions as well.

If Zimmerman wants the media and the nation to stop surmising what he is all about, then maybe Zimmerman should tell us himself what he is all about and not have his father, a friend and his attorney....should he need one, do all of his talking for him.

Martin cannot speak for himself, but Zimmerman can and refuses to do so.

[jmac00]

I have not made any accusations whatsoever, Jeff. I have posted scenarios that could have occurred to point out that the justice system screwed up with not taking Zimmerman into custody, by not testing Zimmerman for drug or alcohol use, for not treating the scene of this killing as a possible crime scene.

Suddenly there are "other" 911 tapes and "other" eyewitnesses that the police "overlooked".....give me a break, this reaks of a coverup.

The whole reason for the nation being upset over this incident is that the justice system has so far not done it's job. No one is convicting Zimmerman. We don't know what actually happened because Zimmerman is being protected and Martin is dead.

All I'm stating is that this whold thing reaks of a cover up for Zimmerman. Zimmerman's past records strongly indicate that his Judge father has kept Zimmerman from past convictions as well.

If Zimmerman wants the media and the nation to stop surmising what he is all about, then maybe Zimmerman should tell us himself what he is all about and not have his father, a friend and his attorney....should he need one, do all of his talking for him.

Martin cannot speak for himself, but Zimmerman can and refuses to do so.

as I all ready stated Mr.Z is available to the police at their convenience? why not let the Grand Jury do there job.

and one more thing, why is this such a gigantic issue, why is there NEVER any outrage when Blacks commit crimes against whites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newso m


The national news media was criticized for allegedly ignoring the story because the victims were white and the suspects black.

[pbharvey]

This isn't about race


POTUS made it about race. He wanted everyone to identify the dead boy with the black race. Its not about a young boy being shot and killed. Its about a white-hispanic shooting and killing a black boy. Last weekend three black guys shot and killed a white college boy in Missouri. (http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252). I didn't hear Joe Biden chime in and say that the white boy looked like his son.

Whatever the truth is, I hope it comes out.

[jmac00]

POTUS made it about race. He wanted everyone to identify the dead boy with the black race. Its not about a young boy being shot and killed. Its about a white-hispanic shooting and killing a black boy. Last weekend three black guys shot and killed a white college boy in Missouri. (http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252). I didn't hear Joe Biden chime in and say that the white boy looked like his son.

Whatever the truth is, I hope it comes out.

exactly what the Grand Jury is for.

[jmac00]

ut-oooh,

now the Trayvon was a great kid theory is going up in smoke:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-killing/2012/03/26/id/433912?s=al&promo_code=E854-1

[Gib's Son]

You all need to read more of my posts. Old new's to this little grey duck.:whistle: :playing:

[RoBoTeq]

as I all ready stated Mr.Z is available to the police at their convenience? why not let the Grand Jury do there job.

and one more thing, why is this such a gigantic issue, why is there NEVER any outrage when Blacks commit crimes against whites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newso m
This is an issue because due process has not been done by the legal system. This is an issue because it is not right that someone like Zimmerman can do whatever he wants and have his judge daddy continue to protect him from being a responsible person. From the records, it looks like Zimmerman has been progressively getting away with more and more issues until he has now caused the death of someone.

What if it were your son? Would you not want to at least have the man responsible for your son's death put through the motions of a trial to prove that your son deserved to die? Zimmerman's father does not want Zimmerman to have to take any responsibility for this incident. Zimmerman's father is protecting Zimmerman from even having to talk to anyone about this incident. The big, bad, wannabe cop is hiding and according to his family "friend"....crying over killing Martin. BULLCRAP! This whole thing reaks of a coverup by Zimmerman's father and his influence on the so called "justice system".

[glennac]

We don't have all the info but it appears that Zimmerman was a robo cop and Martin was a punk with attitude who went off on Zimmerman. Both were wrong IMO. The national press is all one way making Martin out to be a chior boy. Other sources give the non PC news and the truth is not like media wants to paint it. Most conservatives can see both sides but the liberals as always only have one view the PC view. It would have been best by far for all concerned including Zimmerman if they had arrested Zimmerman and then give him bail since there is doubt to his murder of Martin and let the grand jury make the call. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

POTUS made it about race. He wanted everyone to identify the dead boy with the black race. Its not about a young boy being shot and killed. Its about a white-hispanic shooting and killing a black boy. Last weekend three black guys shot and killed a white college boy in Missouri. (http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252). I didn't hear Joe Biden chime in and say that the white boy looked like his son.

Whatever the truth is, I hope it comes out.
A lot of Black bigots are trying to make this issue some sort of major racist issue, that does not mean it really was a racist issue.

Hey, even if Zimmerman did make racial remarks about Martin being Black, I still look at it as being a wannabe cop whose daddy has already got him out of several legal jams decided to harass Martin for walking through a neighborhood that Zimmerman appointed himself a defender of.

Obama uses racism as well as any other device to divide the country because Obama is an elitist fascist wannabe. There are now at least two major types of organizations trying to cash in on this tragedy caused by some two bit punk whose daddy never allowed to take responsibility for himself. You have the biggoted Black racists who want to start crap over ethnic differences and you have the anti-gun fascists who want to claim that the gun was the problem. Obama uses both of these types of rabel rousing organizations to continue to divide the nation so that he can keep us from uniting against his Socializing the nation.

In the meantime, Martin is still dead and Zimmerman is still an irresponsible, crybaby jerk who is 100% responsible for the entire incident that caused Martins being killed.

[newoldtech]

You know were just a bunch of dopey A/C guys giving out our opinions without knowing all the facts. It would be alot worse if the President of the United States did the samething. Oh wait he did! He really should know better than us. If this thing doesn't turn out to be how the media has portrayed it, its going to make Obama look pretty stupid, and racist again, IMO.

[jmac00]

This is an issue because due process has not been done by the legal system. This is an issue because it is not right that someone like Zimmerman can do whatever he wants and have his judge daddy continue to protect him from being a responsible person. From the records, it looks like Zimmerman has been progressively getting away with more and more issues until he has now caused the death of someone.

What if it were your son? Would you not want to at least have the man responsible for your son's death put through the motions of a trial to prove that your son deserved to die? Zimmerman's father does not want Zimmerman to have to take any responsibility for this incident. Zimmerman's father is protecting Zimmerman from even having to talk to anyone about this incident. The big, bad, wannabe cop is hiding and according to his family "friend"....crying over killing Martin. BULLCRAP! This whole thing reaks of a coverup by Zimmerman's father and his influence on the so called "justice system".


first off you need to calm down and think a little.

1) your guessing at almost everything you postedwithout KNOWING the facts

2)Zimmerman and the police have said they are in communication, your suggestion that Daddy is covering up is a guess, a poor supposition at best.

3)How public would you be if the Black Panthers and Louis Farrakhan had a $10,000 bounty on your head. (by putting a bounty on Zimmermans head, they just gave him an excuse to fear for his life and the lives of his family)

4) The city is convening a Grand Jury, why not let them do their job

5) The country and most people (including you apparently) have all ready convicted Zimmerman, so even if they indict him, how would he get a fair trail.

6) why are you not screaming over the Goin case, why isn't anyone protesting or rioting over that incident?

I'll tell you why, selective media propaganda

[RoBoTeq]

ut-oooh,

now the Trayvon was a great kid theory is going up in smoke:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-killing/2012/03/26/id/433912?s=al&promo_code=E854-1
More heresay. None of this coincides with what Zimmerman claimed about Martin running or what the girlfriend claims about what was being said on the phone as she was talking to Martin.

Again, if Martin was beating Zimmerman's head on the ground, how could Martin be trying to take Zimmerman's gun?

Maybe Martin got the upper hand on Zimmerman and Zimmerman got scared and killed Martin. Maybe Martin saw the gun and tried thought he was being assaulted by Zimmerman. We don't know, because Marting cannot speak. What we are hearing is only from Zimmerman and his own stories don't even match up.

This alleged eyewitness is another one who refuses to be allowed to be known who he is. Why? This guy claims he saw the very brief tussle between Zimmerman and Martin and claims that he knows it was Zimmerman crying out for help. In the dark, in the rain, this guy knows all of these things, but he won't let us know who he is. Why is everyone in this case so allusive?

There is supposed to be some 13 year old witness as well. Is this the same witness who won't allow themselves to be known? Hell, before this thing is all over, Zimmerman's daddy is going to be able to have Jesus Christ testify for Zimmerman.

[jmac00]

You know were just a bunch of dopey A/C guys giving out our opinions without knowing all the facts. It would be alot worse if the President of the United States did the samething. Oh wait he did! He really should know better than us. If this thing doesn't turn out to be how the media has portrayed it, its going to make Obama look pretty stupid, and racist again, IMO.

remember this little beauty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations

[RoBoTeq]

first off you need to calm down and think a little. First off, you need to not try telling me what to do.....ever.


1) your guessing at almost everything you postedwithout KNOWING the factsI have made it clear that everything I have stated is for the sake of argument and not any sort of conviction.


2)Zimmerman and the police have said they are in communication, your suggestion that Daddy is covering up is a guess, a poor supposition at best. Daddy covering up for Zimmerman is a documented fact for past incidences and daddy has written a letter of covering up for Zimmerman in this case. If you don't know the basic facts, maybe you should not have jumped into the conversation.


3)How public would you be if the Black Panthers and Louis Farrakhan had a $10,000 bounty on your head. (by putting a bounty on Zimmermans head, they just gave him an excuse to fear for his life and the lives of his family) Zimmerman can certainly give his own testimony from hiding. Instead, only Zimmerman's father, 53 year old friend of the family who is a professional public speaker and attorney have spoken for Zimmerman.


4) The city is convening a Grand Jury, why not let them do their jobIf not for the public outcry, this would have never gone to a grand jury. If you don't want to discuss this issue, then stop posting and leave the rest of us alone. Who appointed you moderator of this thread?


5) The country and most people (including you apparently) have all ready convicted Zimmerman, so even if they indict him, how would he get a fair trail. Once again, Jeff, you have no right making false statements about my convicting Zimmerman. I have never stated that I know anything and would appreciate it if you stopped making the false claims that I have.


6) why are you not screaming over the Goin case, why isn't anyone protesting or rioting over that incident? Complete leftist type of red herring argument, Jeff. We are discussing this incident, not something else you want to drag across the road to distract us.


I'll tell you why, selective media propaganda
If you don't like the way we are having a discussion, stop reading it.

[the mojo]

You know were just a bunch of dopey A/C guys giving out our opinions without knowing all the facts. It would be alot worse if the President of the United States did the samething. Oh wait he did! He really should know better than us. If this thing doesn't turn out to be how the media has portrayed it, its going to make Obama look pretty stupid, and racist again, IMO.

Just had to inject this......

Then the Big O will just have to have another beer fest.:cheers:
Break out the Red Stripe and Blue Moon boys the party is at the White House.:grin2:

[Tool-Slinger]

You know were just a bunch of dopey A/C guys giving out our opinions without knowing all the facts. It would be alot worse if the President of the United States did the samething. Oh wait he did! He really should know better than us. If this thing doesn't turn out to be how the media has portrayed it, its going to make Obama look pretty stupid, and racist again, IMO.
Bingo. Obama took a firm stance on the verdict. The overwhelming majority of us hvac guys have voiced guarded opinions and are willing to let the legal system work out the verdict. Obama is a moron. He took sides once again based on no facts and racial lines. Right now he needs to step up and try to put an end to the racial conflict he has encouraged with his previous statements. The black panthers are breaking the law by offering a bounty on zimmerman, obama is going to have to take up the podium and ask them to stand down at the very least. The doj needs to press charges also. Vigilante? Who is the vigilantes here? Zimerman is a suspect in a vigilante type shooting situation, but the black panthers are openly vigilante offering reward for capture of a man not even charged with a crime!

[RoBoTeq]

remember this little beauty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
Brawley may have faked her being raped, but Martin is not faking his being dead. Talk about someone who is trying to manipulate the character of persons involved in this incident! Geez, Jeff, could you be any more blatant that you believe that Martin was some sort of gang banger drug dealer who deserved to die?

[RoBoTeq]

Just had to inject this......

Then the Big O will just have to have another beer fest.:cheers:
Break out the Red Stripe and Blue Moon boys the party is at the White House.:grin2:
Not fair! I like both Red Stripe and Blue Moon, but I don't like Obama.

[RoBoTeq]

Bingo. Obama took a firm stance on the verdict. The overwhelming majority of us hvac guys have voiced guarded opinions and are willing to let the legal system work out the verdict. Obama is a moron. He took sides once again based on no facts and racial lines. Right now he needs to step up and try to put an end to the racial conflict he has encouraged with his previous statements. The black panthers are breaking the law by offering a bounty on zimmerman, obama is going to have to take up the podium and ask them to stand down at the very least. The doj needs to press charges also. Vigilante? Who is the vigilantes here? Zimerman is a suspect in a vigilante type shooting situation, but the black panthers are openly vigilante offering reward for capture of a man not even charged with a crime!
Agree with all of this. Obama is basically supporting the racist actions of this so called New Black Panther Party and the other Black racists who are trying to incite Black Americans against White Americans.

Where's Rodney when we need him?

[the mojo]

Not fair! I like both Red Stripe and Blue Moon, but I don't like Obama.

Gotcha again,that was your response the last time the Big O stuck his nose into something he must stay out of.:angel:

[infwsdm]

Fact; Zimmerman Killed Martin
Fact: Zimmerman had a gun
Fact: Zimmerman pursued Martin
Fact: Martin knew he was being pursued

Who's to say Martin wasn't standing HIS ground?
What would YOU do if someone was following you, in the dark, when it's raining?
Maybe Martin thought he was gonna get mugged by Zimmerman.

Whatever any of these two did in their pasts does not matter. What does matter is that one person is dead and the other person is responsible for that death. Some people think Zimmerman should not have to take responsibility for killing Martin because of 'self defense'

How can someone claim self defense when they were the aggressor in pursuing the other person?

[jmac00]

First off, you need to not try telling me what to do.....ever.I have made it clear that everything I have stated is for the sake of argument and not any sort of conviction.Daddy covering up for Zimmerman is a documented fact for past incidences and daddy has written a letter of covering up for Zimmerman in this case. If you don't know the basic facts, maybe you should not have jumped into the conversation.Zimmerman can certainly give his own testimony from hiding. Instead, only Zimmerman's father, 53 year old friend of the family who is a professional public speaker and attorney have spoken for Zimmerman.
If not for the public outcry, this would have never gone to a grand jury. If you don't want to discuss this issue, then stop posting and leave the rest of us alone. Who appointed you moderator of this thread?Once again, Jeff, you have no right making false statements about my convicting Zimmerman. I have never stated that I know anything and would appreciate it if you stopped making the false claims that I have.Complete leftist type of red herring argument, Jeff. We are discussing this incident, not something else you want to drag across the road to distract us.
If you don't like the way we are having a discussion, stop reading it.

holy crap, you arrogance meter has just rocketed off the scale.

Keep guessing and adding more supposition, If you make enough guess's you *may* come close to what your perceive to be the truth.

don't foget, run out an buy your hoody before prices go up :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[newoldtech]

Fact; Zimmerman Killed Martin
Fact: Zimmerman had a gun
Fact: Zimmerman pursued Martin
Fact: Martin knew he was being pursued

Who's to say Martin wasn't standing HIS ground?
What would YOU do if someone was following you, in the dark, when it's raining?
Maybe Martin thought he was gonna get mugged by Zimmerman.

Whatever any of these two did in their pasts does not matter. What does matter is that one person is dead and the other person is responsible for that death. Some people think Zimmerman should not have to take responsibility for killing Martin because of 'self defense'

How can someone claim self defense when they were the aggressor in pursuing the other person?

Your facts from what the media is telling us are probably correct. But we really dont know what happened when they came face to face. There are reports that Zimmerman incurred a broken nose and suffered head injuries consistent with having his head slammed into the ground. If that happened he certainly could claim self defense at that point. Maybe Zimmerman confronted Martin and said what are you doing here. Maybe Martin got pissed and punched him in the face and started pounding his head into the concrete. Then maybe Zimmerman shot him for fear that he would be beat to death. Without knowing all the facts, and we may never really know them, its all just speculation, especially at this point.

[RoBoTeq]

Gotcha again,that was your response the last time the Big O stuck his nose into something he must stay out of.:angel:
Could someone tell me again what a memory is?

[RoBoTeq]

holy crap, you arrogance meter has just rocketed off the scale.

Keep guessing and adding more supposition, If you make enough guess's you *may* come close to what your perceive to be the truth.

don't foget, run out an buy your hoody before prices go up :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
LOL! I have a few hoodies that I regularly wear already. Now I'm afraid to wear them, for fear I will be pegged as some sort of gang banger criminal casing neighborhoods.

I can't believe you called me arrogant.....:whistle:

[infwsdm]

Your facts from what the media is telling us are probably correct. But we really dont know what happened when they came face to face. There are reports that Zimmerman incurred a broken nose and suffered head injuries consistent with having his head slammed into the ground. If that happened he certainly could claim self defense at that point. Maybe Zimmerman confronted Martin and said what are you doing here. Maybe Martin got pissed and punched him in the face and started pounding his head into the concrete. Then maybe Zimmerman shot him for fear that he would be beat to death. Without knowing all the facts, and we may never really know them, its all just speculation, especially at this point.


We know that if Zimmerman would have stayed in his vehicle and not pursed Martin, we would not be talking about this right now!

[RoBoTeq]

Your facts from what the media is telling us are probably correct. But we really dont know what happened when they came face to face. There are reports that Zimmerman incurred a broken nose and suffered head injuries consistent with having his head slammed into the ground. If that happened he certainly could claim self defense at that point. Maybe Zimmerman confronted Martin and said what are you doing here. Maybe Martin got pissed and punched him in the face and started pounding his head into the concrete. Then maybe Zimmerman shot him for fear that he would be beat to death. Without knowing all the facts, and we may never really know them, its all just speculation, especially at this point.
Zimmerman did not even go to a hospital, so he did not have a broken nose. For all we know, Zimmerman came at Martin aggressively and Martin punched him in the nose and Zimmerman fell down backwards, hit his head, pulled out his gun and shot Martin.

I see the biggest problem with this incident, other then the fact that a boy who has not been shown to have done anything illegal was shot dead, is that the police did not do a proper job of investigating this incident. The 911 call alone should have prompted a more aggressive investigation into Zimmerman.

The police knew from the 911 call that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin and that Zimmerman killed Martin within minutes of being advised by a 911 operator to not pursue Martin.

Had Zimmerman not gone after Martin, no one would be dead.

[newoldtech]

We know that if Zimmerman would have stayed in his vehicle and not pursed Martin, we would not be talking about this right now!

True. But that doesn't really matter much. He did have a legal right to, even though he was advised not to. And what happened when they came face to face is what will determine culpability. In theory neighborhood watches are not a bad thing. Being concerned with what goes on in your community is not a bad thing. Being personally involved is not a bad thing. Just questioning someone that you think may be suspicious is not a bad thing. What none of us knows is what happened when this encounter transpired. Until we know all the available facts its not fair to anyone, to assume with any certainity one way or another.

[infwsdm]

True. But that doesn't really matter much. He did have a legal right to, even though he was advised not to. And what happened when they came face to face is what will determine culpability. In theory neighborhood watches are not a bad thing. Being concerned with what goes on in your community is not a bad thing. Being personally involved is not a bad thing. Just questioning someone that you think may be suspicious is not a bad thing. What none of us knows is what happened when this encounter transpired. Until we know all the available facts its not fair to anyone, to assume with any certainity one way or another.


apparently he had a legal right to shoot him too!

Neighborhood watch is to WATCH. He has no RIGHT to follow or question anyone. What someone else is doing is none of anyone else's business. He called 911, police were on their way, let the police handle it. that's what we pay them for. Zimmerman was pretty much stalking Martin.

If I'm walking down the street and someone approached me in an aggressive manner or asked me what I was 'doing here'. I'd tell 'em to go F@#$ himself!

[Tool-Slinger]

apparently he had a legal right to shoot him too!

Neighborhood watch is to WATCH. He has no RIGHT to follow or question anyone. What someone else is doing is none of anyone else's business. He called 911, police were on their way, let the police handle it. that's what we pay them for. Zimmerman was pretty much stalking Martin.

If I'm walking down the street and someone approached me in an aggressive manner or asked me what I was 'doing here'. I'd tell 'em to go F@#$ himself!
If someone is on my street I figure I have the right to approach them and ask them who they are and what their business is.

[infwsdm]

If someone is on my street I figure I have the right to approach them and ask them who they are and what their business is.

No you don't.

If you want to know who someone is, first introduce yourself (in a friendly manner)
Nobody has the right to accost someone on the street. You don't own the street.

If they are on YOUR property then you can ask away however you want.

A person walking down the street has the right to be left alone!

[stonefly]

any reports yet on the election year ammo sales?

[jmac00]

any reports yet on the election year ammo sales?

Ruger stock has almost doubled in the last 6 months, does that count?

[jmac00]

someone answer me this:

Why didn't Martin call police and tell them someone was following him?

Was Zimmerman so stealthy that Martin didn't even notice him?

and no one has the right to walk up to another person in a public domain and demand to know who that person is, not even the police. As long as that person has a legal right to be there.

[jmac00]

It seems Trayvon's mother is getting over her greif

http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2012/03/treyvon-martins-mother-seeks-to.html


Sybrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton, 46, is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.

The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton, whose first name is spelled "Sabrina" in the trademark records.

[coolwhip]

someone answer me this:

Why didn't Martin call police and tell them someone was following him?

Was Zimmerman so stealthy that Martin didn't even notice him?

and no one has the right to walk up to another person in a public domain and demand to know who that person is, not even the police. As long as that person has a legal right to be there.

He was in a gated condo community probably scopin out places. He was recently suspended from school for 10 days for being in a restricted area...prolly lookin for something to steal. The first thing the attorney did was seal his school files probably to hide his gang background and filching abilities.
The kid was a punkass trouble maker that mouthed off and attacked the wrong dude.
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...its gotta be a duck!

[newoldtech]

someone answer me this:

Why didn't Martin call police and tell them someone was following him?

Was Zimmerman so stealthy that Martin didn't even notice him?

and no one has the right to walk up to another person in a public domain and demand to know who that person is, not even the police. As long as that person has a legal right to be there.

You certainly have a right to ask. The other person doesn't have to answer. But if he is not doing anything wrong, a simple "I live here and i'm on my way home" could save a life. Especially when they're lets just say over zealous, aggressive types like Zimmerman out there. The world is not always a fair place. Discretion is the better part of valor. Or you can fight over everything.

Heres something that happens to me at least a couple of times a year. This actually just happened last week. I was servicing someones A/C in broad day light. I was walking out the side of the yard. Someone, a neighbor I presume was walking in front of the house, he said to me "can I help you"? I'm thinking in my head who the F are you, its none of your business who I am. But I told him I'm just working on the A/C. He walked away. I went about my business. Its not worth the confrontation. And it wasn't worth copping an attitude. Maybe this guy is a good friend of where I was working and he would bad mouth me to my customer. Bottom line a little common sense and just a smile makes alot more sense most of the time.

[pbharvey]

Had Zimmerman not gone after Martin, no one would be dead.

Had Martin not gone after Zimmerman, no one would be dead.

[ControlsInMT]

And if neither one was black we wouldn't be talking about it

[WebCTRL]

I have not made any accusations whatsoever, Jeff.

.....give me a break, this reaks of a coverup.

The whole reason for the nation being upset over this incident is that the justice system has so far not done it's job.

We don't know what actually happened because Zimmerman is being protected and Martin is dead.

All I'm stating is that this whold thing reaks of a cover up for Zimmerman. Zimmerman's past records strongly indicate that his Judge father has kept Zimmerman from past convictions as well. .

I have made no accusations, whatsoever... hmmh, looks like all you did was make accusations...



If Zimmerman wants the media and the nation to stop surmising what he is all about, then maybe Zimmerman should tell us himself what he is all about and not have his father, a friend and his attorney....should he need one, do all of his talking for him.

Martin cannot speak for himself, but Zimmerman can and refuses to do so.

And, not speaking on Z's part, smart, just like any lawyer would recommend. Anything he says will be spun, misquoted, and used against him. You know that, C'mon Robo. You usually seem pretty open minded about subjects but you have something going on here, that is clouding any objectivity.

[WebCTRL]

We know that if Zimmerman would have stayed in his vehicle and not pursed Martin, we would not be talking about this right now!

NO we don't. Well, maybe Robo's magic 8 ball does...

[RoBoTeq]

He was in a gated condo community probably scopin out places. He was recently suspended from school for 10 days for being in a restricted area...prolly lookin for something to steal. The first thing the attorney did was seal his school files probably to hide his gang background and filching abilities.
The kid was a punkass trouble maker that mouthed off and attacked the wrong dude.
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...its gotta be a duck!Please tell us you are kidding with this. You do realize that all of this is just a matter of your projection of character onto someone else, don't you?

Martin was still coming of age. Maybe he was going in some wrong directions. My son did a lot worse then anything I have heard about Martin, and I never felt he deserved to be killed by some vigilante carrying a gun around on his self appointed cop wannabe rounds.

[RoBoTeq]

Had Martin not gone after Zimmerman, no one would be dead.
There is no proof that Martin went after Zimmerman. There is proof that Zimmerman went after Martin.

[RoBoTeq]

And if neither one was black we wouldn't be talking about it
I don't agree. It just wouldn't be considered a racial issue.

Aside from the fact that Martin can never have the opportunity to become a good citizen or a criminal mastermind, the biggest injustice here is the protection of Zimmerman by his father and the police.

If my son had been killed in a skirmish where no crime had been committed by my son, I would expect some sort of hearing or trial to determine what happened. And in my son's case, in his earlier years, he most likely would have been the cause of the incident. That does not mean that I would not want to know exactly what happened.

[ControlsInMT]

I don't agree. It just wouldn't be considered a racial issue.

Aside from the fact that Martin can never have the opportunity to become a good citizen or a criminal mastermind, the biggest injustice here is the protection of Zimmerman by his father and the police.

If my son had been killed in a skirmish where no crime had been committed by my son, I would expect some sort of hearing or trial to determine what happened. And in my son's case, in his earlier years, he most likely would have been the cause of the incident. That does not mean that I would not want to know exactly what happened.

Sorry Robo, I didn't mean there would not be the need for justice (whatever the result), I meant it would not have created a national media frenzy.

[WebCTRL]

Please tell us you are kidding with this. You do realize that all of this is just a matter of your projection of character onto someone else, don't you?

Martin was still coming of age. Maybe he was going in some wrong directions. My son did a lot worse then anything I have heard about Martin, and I never felt he deserved to be killed by some vigilante carrying a gun around on his self appointed cop wannabe rounds.

Holy Cow!!!

Pot meet Kettle, Kettle meet pot:whistle:.

"projection of character"????? Robo, that is exactly what you have been and are doing.

If both of these guys had been a little more considerate of other people, this wouldn't have happened. Both were involved, both are responsible.

I'm sure Martin did not want to die and I'm sure Zimmerman did not want to kill someone. Other than that, no one knows squat, until the Grand Jury either indicts or releases the facts it knows after refusing to indict.

[RoBoTeq]

I have made no accusations, whatsoever... hmmh, looks like all you did was make accusations...



And, not speaking on Z's part, smart, just like any lawyer would recommend. Anything he says will be spun, misquoted, and used against him. You know that, C'mon Robo. You usually seem pretty open minded about subjects but you have something going on here, that is clouding any objectivity.
What I have going on here is a son who could very well have been in the situation that Martin was in when he was younger and an older boy who is very similar to Zimmerman, except that he would not be protected by a judge father had his authoritarian attitude ever caused a situation such as Zimmerman created.

On a very personal note, I can see both sides of this situation. I raised two boys into manhood who each had similar attitudes that each of the two persons in this incident had. I worked hard trying to balance the pseudo authoritatian attitude of my one boy to not develope into something that could be harmful to the "don't give a crap about authority" attitude of my son.

No matter how we slice it, Zimmerman is the cause of this tragedy. Whether or not Zimmerman should be convicted of a crime or not depends on whether or not Zimmerman was actually attacked by Martin or if Martin felt he was defending himself from what he believed was an attack by Zimmerman.

I've been in too many situations in life where I felt threatened enough to overreact to situations. I can really relate to what Martin may have been feeling when a stranger who had been following me decides to approach me. If I were in Martin's situation, as is described between the 911 call and the girlfriends testimony, and if I saw a gun on Zimmerman as he approached me, I would have gone apesh!t on Zimmerman.

[RoBoTeq]

NO we don't. Well, maybe Robo's magic 8 ball does...
Aside from your infactuation with my balls, exactly how can you state that if Zimmerman had not approached Martin that this incident would not have happened? How is Zimmerman blameless for the altercation?

[RoBoTeq]

Sorry Robo, I didn't mean there would not be the need for justice (whatever the result), I meant it would not have created a national media frenzy.
OK, I have to agree with that. While it would have created a local issue, without all of the Black racist jackasses like Sharpton and Jackson wanting to incite riots, it probably would not have turned into such a circus.

[pbharvey]

There is no proof that Martin went after Zimmerman. There is proof that Zimmerman went after Martin.

There's an eye witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him.

You've already made up your mind that Zimmerman's dad is bailing him out so you're not going to believe anything to the contrary. The more evidence presented the more you'll attribute it to some conspiracy.

[RoBoTeq]

Holy Cow!!!

Pot meet Kettle, Kettle meet pot:whistle:.

"projection of character"????? Robo, that is exactly what you have been and are doing.

If both of these guys had been a little more considerate of other people, this wouldn't have happened. Both were involved, both are responsible.

I'm sure Martin did not want to die and I'm sure Zimmerman did not want to kill someone. Other than that, no one knows squat, until the Grand Jury either indicts or releases the facts it knows after refusing to indict.
How was Martin being inconsiderate? The young man was walking down the street in the rain, talking to some girl on the phone. These are recorded facts. It was only Zimmerman who decided that he did not like the looks of Martin that created this whole thing.

Whether Zimmerman is found guilty of a crime or not, the man needs to understand that he caused the whole issue. Of course we are all projecting our own character. That is the only way we can look at an issue. And my point is that had I been in Martin's shoes, I would have most likely gone off on Zimmerman.....possibly much sooner.

Think about it; you are a young man who has just had some troubles in school and you are caught up in an identity crisis that is so common to youth. You are walking home in the rain, talking trash to some girl on the phone, and some guy is following you in his car. The guy gets out of his car and approaches you....WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR MIND?

At 17 years old, with having had so much trouble with jerks giving me crap because I was a long hair, I most likely would have tromped Zimmerman's car long before he ever got up the nerve to get out because he knew the police were on their way.

[WebCTRL]

What I have going on here is a son who could very well have been in the situation that Martin was in when he was younger and an older boy who is very similar to Zimmerman, except that he would not be protected by a judge father had his authoritarian attitude ever caused a situation such as Zimmerman created.

On a very personal note, I can see both sides of this situation. I raised two boys into manhood who each had similar attitudes that each of the two persons in this incident had. I worked hard trying to balance the pseudo authoritatian attitude of my one boy to not develope into something that could be harmful to the "don't give a crap about authority" attitude of my son.

No matter how we slice it, Zimmerman is the cause of this tragedy. Whether or not Zimmerman should be convicted of a crime or not depends on whether or not Zimmerman was actually attacked by Martin or if Martin felt he was defending himself from what he believed was an attack by Zimmerman.

I've been in too many situations in life where I felt threatened enough to overreact to situations. I can really relate to what Martin may have been feeling when a stranger who had been following me decides to approach me. If I were in Martin's situation, as is described between the 911 call and the girlfriends testimony, and if I saw a gun on Zimmerman as he approached me, I would have gone apesh!t on Zimmerman.

I too see both sides of this situation and I guess that is why I feel both are responsible for the tragedy. Either one of these 2 people could have changed the outcome through their behavior. Was Zimmerman guilty of a crime, I have no idea at this point, was Martin guilty of attacking Zimmerman, I don't know, we do not have the facts. We have to see through the spin the media is putting on this thing just like we do with all things reported through the mainstream media.


I think in the next 48-72 hours, you will see some new information come out that will shed light on this incident.

[RoBoTeq]

There's an eye witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him.

You've already made up your mind that Zimmerman's dad is bailing him out so you're not going to believe anything to the contrary. The more evidence presented the more you'll attribute it to some conspiracy.
That eyewitness showed up much later and cannot say what caused the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin.

How can you state that Zimmerman's dad is not bailing him out when his dad is the one who wrote the letter to the authorities making a statement that Zimmerman is completely innocent and even a victim because he has to live with having killed someone? How can you even suggest that Zimmerman's father is not protecting him when there are two other incidences where Zimmerman's father interceeded for Zimmerman's actions?

Zimmerman's father is a retired judge. The man has connections in the legal system and has used his connections to protect Zimmerman in the past. The so called "friend" of Zimmerman's is a 53 year old commentator who is actually a friend of the family. Do you really think that Zimmerman's father is not orchestrating everything that is happening on Zimmerman's side of this?

I'm not saying any of this as absolute fact. However, the facts that surround this issue strongly support scenarios that I have suggested could be a lot more then rationale supports what Zimmerman has claimed happened. There are all kinds of gaps in Zimmerman's story.

[WebCTRL]

How was Martin being inconsiderate? The young man was walking down the street in the rain, talking to some girl on the phone. These are recorded facts. It was only Zimmerman who decided that he did not like the looks of Martin that created this whole thing.

Whether Zimmerman is found guilty of a crime or not, the man needs to understand that he caused the whole issue. Of course we are all projecting our own character. That is the only way we can look at an issue. And my point is that had I been in Martin's shoes, I would have most likely gone off on Zimmerman.....possibly much sooner.

Think about it; you are a young man who has just had some troubles in school and you are caught up in an identity crisis that is so common to youth. You are walking home in the rain, talking trash to some girl on the phone, and some guy is following you in his car. The guy gets out of his car and approaches you....WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR MIND?

At 17 years old, with having had so much trouble with jerks giving me crap because I was a long hair, I most likely would have tromped Zimmerman's car long before he ever got up the nerve to get out because he knew the police were on their way.

Martin inconsiderate in his response to Zimmerman. Zimmerman incosiderate in how he approached Martin. I'm just saying they both could have handled it differently. Either one of them could have changed the outcome.

And stop slanting Zimmerman's take on everything. You were not in his head, you don't know what he was thinking.

I guess, in the big picture then, these problems that you mention and this incident show, we are not teaching our kids good family values, morals, ethics and consideration, so these teenagers and young people are going to act like this until we do, right?

What changed you from the old Robo to the new more gentler, kinder Robo of today? And, I'm serious here, what are we lacking that causes this...

[RoBoTeq]

I too see both sides of this situation and I guess that is why I feel both are responsible for the tragedy. Either one of these 2 people could have changed the outcome through their behavior. Was Zimmerman guilty of a crime, I have no idea at this point, was Martin guilty of attacking Zimmerman, I don't know, we do not have the facts. We have to see through the spin the media is putting on this thing just like we do with all things reported through the mainstream media.


I think in the next 48-72 hours, you will see some new information come out that will shed light on this incident.
Even if Martin is guilty of attacking Zimmerman, it was only because Zimmerman put himself into Martin's life. With the attitude that Zimmerman had moments before he killed Martin, as is very clear on the 911 call, it's a darn good bet that Zimmerman approached Martin aggressively. What would you do if someone who had been following you suddenly approaches you? What if that someone had a gun and you believed your life was in danger?

[WebCTRL]

Aside from your infactuation with my balls, exactly how can you state that if Zimmerman had not approached Martin that this incident would not have happened? How is Zimmerman blameless for the altercation?

I never said Z was blameless. Go back and re-read. I replied to a post that said if Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle, this would not have happened. And, my reply was we don't know.

It's all speculation.

I could speculate a number of scenarios where Martin could do something, but it is just that speculation.

What if... Zimmerman hadn't approached? ...Martin hadn't been a bad boy and gotten himself suspended for 10 days? I could play this all day.

My point is the same, both were part of this tragedy, both are responsible.

The degree of that responsibility, I'll leave that to God and the Courts.

[WebCTRL]

Even if Martin is guilty of attacking Zimmerman, it was only because Zimmerman put himself into Martin's life.

They both made choices. I see why you say that but I can see another side also. If thieves had been attacking homes in your neighborhood in the recent days, would you be more aware of your surrondings and suspicious of people in your neighborhood whom you didn't know or recognize? If this had been happening in recent days and you were Martin, could you have made a decision to get Skittles elsewhere?


With the attitude that Zimmerman had moments before he killed Martin, as is very clear on the 911 call, it's a darn good bet that Zimmerman approached Martin aggressively.

Probably so, but I don't know that for sure. If so, that's one of the things I think could have been done differently thus potentially changing the outcome.


What would you do if someone who had been following you suddenly approaches you? What if that someone had a gun and you believed your life was in danger?

Was in the situation you describe in the first sentence this past weekend. Was a very uncomfortable situation. I was with one of my young sons and it was a very unnerving scenario but all ended well. It could very well have been different and I am thankful it didn't (maybe lucky too???).

If that situation had been a little different and the other party had a gun (of if I KNEW he had one-maybe he did and I didn't know it), well then, it probably would have ended differently, but I do know that being a blowhard, spouting off, or getting aggressive or thuggin certainly isn't going to make the situation better.

[Tool-Slinger]

No you don't.

If you want to know who someone is, first introduce yourself (in a friendly manner)
Nobody has the right to accost someone on the street. You don't own the street.

If they are on YOUR property then you can ask away however you want.

A person walking down the street has the right to be left alone!
I did not intend to say I have a right to accost anyone, just approach and ask who they are and what their business is. As newold pointed out, they also have a right to tell me to mind my own business or whatever. I am not saying approaching anyone like that is smart, just within legal rights.

[stonefly]

whatever martins actions were, even if he ran then layed in wait for zimmerman it was part of of a normal "flight or fight" human reaction. we don't know his world, maybe lets say for sake of arguement that he lived like a dog and died like a dog and his momma is trying to make bank on it now. so what? lets say he was a menace, the sort that some would privately feel needed killing. so what ? some here are speculating whether or not he was a good enough human to deserve justice. shame on you. no laws can cover a persons response to being persued by an armed attacker. whoever was after him didn't identify himself as a police officer so that would reasonably leave the category of "everyone else". zimmerman made a decision contrary to the training he was washed out of (i think we can take for granted no instructor suggested that an armed private citizen should persue and confront a suspect for questioning) the 911 dispatcher sure didn't encourage him any. he was just a wannabe cop with a gun taking on the most dangerous individual his manhood could handle and underestimated this 17 year old boy. we all know "that guy" from high school, he showed you his nunchucks in eighth grade with that odd creepy smile. now he's happy working for peanuts at the big 5 gun counter.we had instincts to steer clear of him, this is why.

[ControlsInMT]

What's wrong with working at the big 5 gun counter?

[stonefly]

nothing at all and i suspect that in montana it wouldn't be near the dead end it is here in calif..i'm a gun guy myself just no soldier of fortune or detective novels here at the house. i just make an observation about the sort of guy completely unsuitable for law enforcement that settles for as close as he can get rather than getting on with his life. some security guards are another example. what a **** job but it feeds some personal mental shortcoming. (loser) his choice, as it is mine to notice.

[beshvac]

If my wife was walking down the street and someone started questioning her "Why she was there!" or FOLLOWING HER with a GUN: the same issue quite possibly would have happened to her....however....I think it would have been Zimmerman who was dead....them pittsburgh sicilians are tough :)

[netsalt]

How about some current pictures of the Zimmerman and Martin. The media as always shows their bias whenever possible. Thank you very much

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb48/glennac8/LiveLeak-dot-com-b1981678b9d1-eft0wjpgresized.jpg

In the interest of fairness "twitchy" apologized for posting this photo - wrong kid - talk about media bias. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s3.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/twitchy-trayvon-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mediamatters.org/iphone/blog/201203270002&h=575&w=436&sz=159&tbnid=9CfcRstOiL9qkM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=70&zoom=1&docid=_78RriVCS1mBCM&sa=X&ei=lR9yT7jXFoaJtwf524XZDw&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAQ&dur=2498

[hearthman]

I cannot believe the insanity being spewed here. What part of "you don't have all the facts" do you people not understand? You are guilty of trying someone without due process-period. You are a defacto lynch mob basing your decisions on imprecise incomplete information. Why not knock it off and wait for the trial when the facts of the case come out? We already have an eye witness testifying that it was Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up and it was Zimmerman's voice--not the kid's crying for help the way the media would want you to believe. This kid had a record of trouble including dope and being caught with stolen jewelry and a burglar's tool so he's not an angel as they would want you to believe. Does that convict the kid? Not on its own but if the kid was acting suspiciously and then Zimmerman may have had probable cause to at least follow him. Now, one version going around is that Zimmerman did what 911 instructed, was heading back to his SUV when Martin turned around and confronted then assaulted him. Now, does that change the picture painted by the media a little?

The bottom line is, WE DON'T KNOW [U]anything[U] for sure about this case except the kid is dead. Why not drop it and wait for the trial. Otherwise, get some lipstick and put it on your butts because that's where you're talking out of when you speak of "the facts" in this case. Sheesh.....

[newoldtech]

I cannot believe the insanity being spewed here. What part of "you don't have all the facts" do you people not understand? You are guilty of trying someone without due process-period. You are a defacto lynch mob basing your decisions on imprecise incomplete information. Why not knock it off and wait for the trial when the facts of the case come out? We already have an eye witness testifying that it was Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up and it was Zimmerman's voice--not the kid's crying for help the way the media would want you to believe. This kid had a record of trouble including dope and being caught with stolen jewelry and a burglar's tool so he's not an angel as they would want you to believe. Does that convict the kid? Not on its own but if the kid was acting suspiciously and then Zimmerman may have had probable cause to at least follow him. Now, one version going around is that Zimmerman did what 911 instructed, was heading back to his SUV when Martin turned around and confronted then assaulted him. Now, does that change the picture painted by the media a little?

The bottom line is, WE DON'T KNOW [U]anything[U] for sure about this case except the kid is dead. Why not drop it and wait for the trial. Otherwise, get some lipstick and put it on your butts because that's where you're talking out of when you speak of "the facts" in this case. Sheesh.....

Its ironic. You're doing the samething that you are chasitising others for, giving their opinion. If you dont like it why are you participating with us? As I've said, we are doing here what people always do. We are giving our opinions on current events. Most of us know that we dont know everything and we may never know everything but we are doing what people do, discussing current events. And if there is a trial we will discuss whether we agree with it or not. And trials are certainly not the last word either. The O. J. trial and Casey Anthony trial are two that come to mind that didn't settle anything for a lot of people. Feel free to give your opinion, and we when we want to will give ours. America, everyones opinion is welcome. Thats what we do here on ARP!

[Tool-Slinger]

Its ironic. You're doing the samething that you are chasitising others for, giving their opinion. If you dont like it why are you participating with us? As I've said, we are doing here what people always do. We are giving our opinions on current events. Most of us know that we dont know everything and we may never know everything but we are doing what people do, discussing current events. And if there is a trial we will discuss whether we agree with it or not. And trials are certainly not the last word either. The O. J. trial and Casey Anthony trial are two that come to mind that didn't settle anything for a lot of people. Feel free to give your opinion, and we when we want to will give ours. America, everyones opinion is welcome. Thats what we do here on ARP!
Very well said newoldtech.

Nobody here is on a jury or anything. And we are not rioting or forming a lynch mob. We are just discussing stuff in the news.

[Of course, we do tend to gossip worse than a bunch of school girls] :p

[RoBoTeq]

I never said Z was blameless. Go back and re-read. I replied to a post that said if Zimmerman had not gotten out of his vehicle, this would not have happened. And, my reply was we don't know.

It's all speculation.

I could speculate a number of scenarios where Martin could do something, but it is just that speculation.

What if... Zimmerman hadn't approached? ...Martin hadn't been a bad boy and gotten himself suspended for 10 days? I could play this all day.

My point is the same, both were part of this tragedy, both are responsible.

The degree of that responsibility, I'll leave that to God and the Courts.
The point is that it was Zimmerman who initiated every action that created any reactions that night. Take Zimmerman out of the picture on that night and Martin would have continued on his way home and would be alive today.

Zimmerman may have been within his legal rights to have initiated the actions that he initiated, but had he not done so, Martin would not be dead and Zimmerman would not be a killer.

[RoBoTeq]

They both made choices. I see why you say that but I can see another side also. If thieves had been attacking homes in your neighborhood in the recent days, would you be more aware of your surrondings and suspicious of people in your neighborhood whom you didn't know or recognize? If this had been happening in recent days and you were Martin, could you have made a decision to get Skittles elsewhere?



Probably so, but I don't know that for sure. If so, that's one of the things I think could have been done differently thus potentially changing the outcome.



Was in the situation you describe in the first sentence this past weekend. Was a very uncomfortable situation. I was with one of my young sons and it was a very unnerving scenario but all ended well. It could very well have been different and I am thankful it didn't (maybe lucky too???).

If that situation had been a little different and the other party had a gun (of if I KNEW he had one-maybe he did and I didn't know it), well then, it probably would have ended differently, but I do know that being a blowhard, spouting off, or getting aggressive or thuggin certainly isn't going to make the situation better.
The point is that we don't know for certain how Zimmerman approached Martin or how Martin reacted. The police only took into consideration Zimmerman's story of what went down, and Zimmerman's story has either changed or has holes in it. Had the police arrested Zimmerman, charged him with anything.....failure to avoid a crime....anything....there would be a trial and the community would have had no need to blow this so out of proportion.

Now that there is going to be a trial, in a higher court of law, some assemblance of the truth may come to light. Unfortunately, because of the way the police mishandled this case, it has been allowed to become a national issue for racists, like Sharpton, Jackson, the New BPP and Obama, and anti-gun advocates to jump on and abuse.

The way it is now, there is no way that the Zimmerman family can ever stay in that community. Because of the mishandling of this situation, which Florida police are becoming more and more noted for, the people have been made to feel that they must take matters into their own hands.

Government employees, such as the police, are hired to serve and protect "ALL" citizens. The night of this killing, the police were not at all serving in the best interest of Martin or his family. Even with damaging evidence showing a very possible aggravated assault on the part of Zimmerman, some of which the police claim they "missed", Zimmerman was not even charged.

[RoBoTeq]

In the interest of fairness "twitchy" apologized for posting this photo - wrong kid - talk about media bias. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s3.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/twitchy-trayvon-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mediamatters.org/iphone/blog/201203270002&h=575&w=436&sz=159&tbnid=9CfcRstOiL9qkM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=70&zoom=1&docid=_78RriVCS1mBCM&sa=X&ei=lR9yT7jXFoaJtwf524XZDw&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAQ&dur=2498
But......dey all looks alike.....

I like this description of those who are circulating that photo;
If you haven't come across the photo to the right, you probably will in the next day or two. Gross racists and assorted other morons are claiming that it's from the Facebook page of Trayvon Martin, the teenager shot and killed by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in Sanford, and that somehow that has bearing on the case. http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/03/trayvon_martin_no_thats_not_hi.php

Now! That was a quote, so I don't want to have to read a bunch of whining from anyone who might resemble those remarks....:grin2:

[RoBoTeq]

Very well said newoldtech.

Nobody here is on a jury or anything. And we are not rioting or forming a lynch mob. We are just discussing stuff in the news.

[Of course, we do tend to gossip worse than a bunch of school girls] :p
And we do it much better then those catty little school girls do.....

It is a real shame that this issue is being abused by both leftists wanting to advocate banning guns and start race riots and create tension amongst the people as well as the too far to the righteousnuts who are abusing the character of the dead teen in order to combat the anti-gun crowd.

After the fact of the issue at hand, the biggest problem is that the police did not properly handle this case. Now it has to go to a higher court and has become a media circus with clowns from the left and jokers from the right....

[RoBoTeq]

For the record, while I can't say that Zimmerman did not spew out any ethnically derogatory comments while working himself up to confront Martin, I don't believe that Zimmerman is a racist or a bigot. I have used ethnically derogatory terms many times in my life to vent anger toward someone for something they were doing. My words in no way indicate any feelings toward any ethnic group, just the specific person I may have been angry at. I think we are way too sensitive over ethnic terminology. I am more inclined to go along with Lenny Bruce and make ethnic slurs so mundane that they cannot incite people to anger or hurt their feelings.

Also, why is it only certain ethnic groups have been conditioned to feel put upon by ethnic slurs? Am I ever going to get upset at being called a cracker, white bread, honky, redneck....etc? I don't think so.

[glennac]

Here is some info to digest from Bill O'Reilly's radio show today. The police say that Zimmerman's story matched that of the witnesses. Zimmerman was walking back to the car when Martin came after him and punched him in the nose knocking him down.

Two witnesses say that Martin was on top of Zimmerman on the ground. Zimmerman had green grass stains on the back of his shirt. Zimmerman was hollering for help and not Martin.

He did go in for medical treatment the following morning for his broken nose. That is not saying that Zimmerman should have not stayed in the car but he is not all black as he is being painted on here. Thank you, thank you very much

[stonefly]

Here is some info to digest from Bill O'Reilly's radio show today. The police say that Zimmerman's story matched that of the witnesses. Zimmerman was walking back to the car when Martin came after him and punched him in the nose knocking him down.

Two witnesses say that Martin was on top of Zimmerman on the ground. Zimmerman had green grass stains on the back of his shirt. Zimmerman was hollering for help and not Martin.

He did go in for medical treatment the following morning for his broken nose. That is not saying that Zimmerman should have not stayed in the car but he is not all black as he is being painted on here. Thank you, thank you very much

if those are the facts, as facts come out that sheds a little different light on the situation. maybe.

[stonefly]

I cannot believe the insanity being spewed here. What part of "you don't have all the facts" do you people not understand? You are guilty of trying someone without due process-period. You are a defacto lynch mob basing your decisions on imprecise incomplete information. Why not knock it off and wait for the trial when the facts of the case come out? We already have an eye witness testifying that it was Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up and it was Zimmerman's voice--not the kid's crying for help the way the media would want you to believe. This kid had a record of trouble including dope and being caught with stolen jewelry and a burglar's tool so he's not an angel as they would want you to believe. Does that convict the kid? Not on its own but if the kid was acting suspiciously and then Zimmerman may have had probable cause to at least follow him. Now, one version going around is that Zimmerman did what 911 instructed, was heading back to his SUV when Martin turned around and confronted then assaulted him. Now, does that change the picture painted by the media a little?

The bottom line is, WE DON'T KNOW [U]anything[U] for sure about this case except the kid is dead. Why not drop it and wait for the trial. Otherwise, get some lipstick and put it on your butts because that's where you're talking out of when you speak of "the facts" in this case. Sheesh.....

oh the voice of calm & reason huh? you who screams FIRE!! from your avatar with every post. you'd think we were some kind of scare tactic appliance salesmen or something :grin2:. probable cause has no bearing on a private citizen with only the arrest powers of citizens arrest & i see no reason to comply with your directive. (considering the source)

[RoBoTeq]

if those are the facts, as facts come out that sheds a little different light on the situation. maybe.
These are not facts, they are heresays. It will be interesting how many of these alleged witnesses, none of whom will allow themselves to be identified, will actually testify on behalf of Zimmerman in a court of law, under oath.

This was not Martin's neighborhood, and Martin is dead. The only person able to speak for Martin is the girl he was on the phone with. According to that girl's testimony, Zimmerman approached Martin while she was talking to Martin. So, which is it; did Martin chase down Zimmerman or did Zimmerman confront Martin while Martin was talking to the girl on the phone?

[RoBoTeq]

Here is a very sensible commentary on this issue; http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/star-parker-rejects-political-ploy-surrounding-trayvon-martin-tragedy-video/

[stonefly]

These are not facts, they are heresays. It will be interesting how many of these alleged witnesses, none of whom will allow themselves to be identified, will actually testify on behalf of Zimmerman in a court of law, under oath.

This was not Martin's neighborhood, and Martin is dead. The only person able to speak for Martin is the girl he was on the phone with. According to that girl's testimony, Zimmerman approached Martin while she was talking to Martin. So, which is it; did Martin chase down Zimmerman or did Zimmerman confront Martin while Martin was talking to the girl on the phone?

agreed and maybe both happened which is why i say maybe. if zimmerman confronted martin but then withdrew could you still say that zimmerman was chased down or was it just the details of how martin went about defending his life? unable to "unring that bell" so to speak. either way zimmermans actions were without authority of law and caused martins death.

[ControlsInMT]

nothing at all and i suspect that in montana it wouldn't be near the dead end it is here in calif..i'm a gun guy myself just no soldier of fortune or detective novels here at the house. i just make an observation about the sort of guy completely unsuitable for law enforcement that settles for as close as he can get rather than getting on with his life. some security guards are another example. what a **** job but it feeds some personal mental shortcoming. (loser) his choice, as it is mine to notice.

Here those type usually become game wardens! :cheers:

[coolwhip]

Here those type usually become game wardens! :cheers:

Hey, this isn't true! I got a degree in law enforcement and wanted to be a conservation officer. As luck would have it, there was a 5 year nation wide hiring freeze at the time.:gah:

I wanted to protect animals and work in the great outdoors because it is my belief that animals make the best people, and people make the best animals.

Sooo, that fell through and I got another degree in Environmental Systems Technology....which keeps me outdoors allot.

[stonefly]

:grin2: too funny ,both. i'm glad you take my meaning. i'm on another thread at bloody decks defending game wardens but it keeps getting closed.

[jmac00]

so BACK ON TOPIC:

anyone want to take s tab as to why there is no outrage over these incidents:

http://www.waff.com/story/17257183/exclusive-video-of-mississippi-state-shooting-suspect

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117695/Brutal-home-invasion-Oklahoma-couple-ends-65-year-romance-meeting-blind-date.html

http://www.walb.com/story/17147174/shocking


uuuum, I wonder why the media is IGNORING these brutal incidents? why is there no out cry for justice from the media

Where is Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Obama?

could it be because the propaganda machine isn't interested in these crimes? It doesn't suite their agenda?

[BACnet]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8554/trayvonn.jpg

[RoBoTeq]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8554/trayvonn.jpg
Why, Bacnet, you little leftist rascal, you. I had no idea that you were all in favor of just gunning down any kid who looks like a hood or may be having trouble figuring out where to fit in society.

Maybe you could post a photo of the kind of person we should not be shooting as we go merrily on our killing spree of everyone we don't like the looks of.....:whistle:

This issue has really brought out the racist bigotry in leftists, hasn't it?

[RoBoTeq]

My contention about this incident and my only concern all along is how the police handled the case. Now it comes out that the police wanted to handle this case much differently, but were interferred with doing so by the States Attorney's Office....you know, that place where Zimmerman's retired judge daddy has lunch at three times a week;

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-manslaughter-charge-151838720--abc-news-topstories.html

So, it seems that the police did not believe Zimmerman's story during the initial investigation.

[BACnet]

Nah- I just saw that and felt it deserved to be posted.

If you can't defend yourself against a drugged up thief who is nashing your head into the assfault, who can you defend yourself against.

There's a reason Zimmerman hasn't been arrested- by all accounts he broke no laws.

[stonefly]

well i think you've answered your own question

could it be because the propaganda machine isn't interested in these crimes? It doesn't suite their agenda?[/QUOTE]

heres's another, why this time was there no reaction like the rodney king incident or even going back farther the watts riots?
i see a lot of protest in the accepted american fashion but no civil disobediance or riot this time. do black americans feel represented now with "their guy" in the wh? has there been growth in race issues to where a pure destructive outflow of emotion is seen as less effective than organizing with such leaders as al sharpton to effect change?

[jmac00]

at this point it doesn't really matter much.

many people on this forum and the rest of the country have all ready convicted Zimmerman of Murder. Lets just go find the guy and shoot him, regardless of the facts or what may have actually happened.

Everyone is injecting there own opinion as fact, not the rule of law.

Everyone seems to want to inject their own state law, to Florida State law.

It may come to the point where Zimmerman is arrested and charged with Murder or Manslaughter, but until that time arrives Im willing to let the Justice system run it's course.

Again from my post #137, why is there no outrage over the crimes committed in my post?

Why is no one marching in the streets? Because it doesn't serve the Government/Gun Control's purpose.

Why is the Propaganda Machine not OUTRAGED over the Black Panthers $10,000 vigilantism?

[stonefly]

good points, as far as the bp party i would say it wouldn't be too smart to be drawn into their provocation. they obviously chose a defunct uber militant organization to resurrect for its shock value. cooler heads on both sides seem not to have taken the bait, they got their 15 minutes.
at some point 12 people will get instructions about what to consider & what they are not allowed to discuss. as for the rest of us we are free to knock this thing about all we want.
as far as those other heinous crimes you posted i think the difference is that the perps are rightly in the system and hopefully justice will prevail. in the case of martin there was outrage that that wasn't going to happen. can't say as i blame them.
some black thug in another state gets shot by a white man isn't really much of a news story. neither are the ones you posted, though tragic. what makes this newsworthy was that zimmerman got a "get out of jail free card" for whatever reason and a whole bunch of folks ain't gonna take it any more. nobody wants (at least here) to lynch zimmerman just for him to face due process.

[BACnet]

I'd like to hear from the school bus driver (http://patriotupdate.com/20435/suspended-three-times-for-drugs-truancy-and-graffiti-and-caught-carrying-a-burglary-tool-new-picture-emerges-of-trayvon-martin-and-did-he-attack-a-bus-driver-too) Trevon allegedly claimed to have assaulted before his current drug-related suspension even began.

The more we hear about this kid, the more all of the eyewitness accounts seem to make sense. I certainly wouldn't want him to be killed for picking a fight with an armed man, but if you start beating up on a guy with a gun, what exactly do you expect the outcome to be? Do you expect him to hug you or defend himself?

Loss of life is a terrible thing, but it seems that this dead little thug was going to meet this end one way or the other.

[RoBoTeq]

Nah- I just saw that and felt it deserved to be posted.

If you can't defend yourself against a drugged up thief who is nashing your head into the assfault, who can you defend yourself against.

There's a reason Zimmerman hasn't been arrested- by all accounts he broke no laws.
Actually not true. At least two officers at the scene wanted Zimmerman to be charged. It was the DA's office that nixed having Zimmerman charged. Part of the reason was the confusion over whether this was a drug incident. The first detectives on the scene were drug enforcement officers, not homocide. The whole thing was screwed up from the very start by the legal system, and now they are scrambling to cover up their mistakes.

Officer Ayala described Zimmerman’s alleged crime as a violation of Florida statute 782.11, titled “Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.”
“Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree,” the law reads.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/27/police-incident-report-fills-in-details-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/#ixzz1qQmF375U



The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.....

.....Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-manslaughter-charge-151838720--abc-news-topstories.html

So, you see, despite all of the mistakes made by the police, the investigators still wanted Zimmerman charged. It was the DA's office that nixed charges being brought on Zimmerman.

[RoBoTeq]

well i think you've answered your own question

could it be because the propaganda machine isn't interested in these crimes? It doesn't suite their agenda?

heres's another, why this time was there no reaction like the rodney king incident or even going back farther the watts riots?
i see a lot of protest in the accepted american fashion but no civil disobediance or riot this time. do black americans feel represented now with "their guy" in the wh? has there been growth in race issues to where a pure destructive outflow of emotion is seen as less effective than organizing with such leaders as al sharpton to effect change?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, I think the nation as a whole has taken a major step backwards on racism due to the way Obama conducts himself over ethnic issues.

One of the main things that I absolutely hate about Obama is the way he uses ethnicity to divide us as a nation when he is the one man who could have used his diversity of ethnicity to unite us even more.

I remember well the days of desegregation, and we have gone back to many of those old attitudes with Obama in the WH.

[RoBoTeq]

I'd like to hear from the school bus driver (http://patriotupdate.com/20435/suspended-three-times-for-drugs-truancy-and-graffiti-and-caught-carrying-a-burglary-tool-new-picture-emerges-of-trayvon-martin-and-did-he-attack-a-bus-driver-too) Trevon allegedly claimed to have assaulted before his current drug-related suspension even began.

The more we hear about this kid, the more all of the eyewitness accounts seem to make sense. I certainly wouldn't want him to be killed for picking a fight with an armed man, but if you start beating up on a guy with a gun, what exactly do you expect the outcome to be? Do you expect him to hug you or defend himself?

Loss of life is a terrible thing, but it seems that this dead little thug was going to meet this end one way or the other.
Focus on the events of the night of the killing. What would have happened that night if Zimmerman had not approached Martin? NOTHING!

Was Martin on drugs that night? Was Martin committing a crime by walking through the neighborhood talking to some girl on the phone? What did Martin do that night that he deserved to be approached by an armed person who was instructed to not pursue Martin?

Zimmerman claims that Martin came after him. How did Zimmerman get out of his car, if this were true? How did Martin's girlfriend hear the conversation between Martin and Zimmerman if this were true?

Another version is that Zimmerman claims he was walking away from Martin and Martin followed him and attacked him. OK; this tells us that Zimmerman did approach Martin when he was instructed not to. What part of "watch" did Zimmerman not understand about being on neighborhood "watch"?

Anyway you slice it, Zimmerman is at fault for initiating actions that resulted in the death of Martin.

[BACnet]

Robo- we can agree to disagree on this one. It's clear to both of us that more of this story will be unfolding over the next few weeks. Perhaps after it's all out in the open one of us will join the other's viewpoint.

But as of right now, I haven't heard that any crime was committed and for that reason there have been no arrests. The statute you quoted seems not to be applicable since Trayvon was beating Zman senseless when he defended himself and took the life of what seems to be a fairly violent, drug addicted (underage) criminal.

You have chosen to immediately side with the president on this one and I have immediately chosen to side with the legal experts and law enforcement officials. Who knows, perhaps I have been too hasty in believing all of the evidence that has leaked out thus far?

Either way it's not worth an argument until all of the facts about Trevon's criminal behavior are brought to light.

:cheers:

Edit- and as for the drug taskforce people being involved, Treyvon was a druggie who went to the store because he had the munchies late at night. I always assumed they found the drugs he sells on his body and that's why they questioned the Zman. I'll have to wait until the police report comes out to know if he had his drugs on him at the time, but it does seem an easy assumption to make.

[RoBoTeq]

Robo- we can agree to disagree on this one. It's clear to both of us that more of this story will be unfolding over the next few weeks. Perhaps after it's all out in the open one of us will join the other's viewpoint.

But as of right now, I haven't heard that any crime was committed and for that reason there have been no arrests. The statute you quoted seems not to be applicable since Trayvon was beating Zman senseless when he defended himself and took the life of what seems to be a fairly violent, drug addicted (underage) criminal.

You have chosen to immediately side with the president on this one and I have immediately chosen to side with the legal experts and law enforcement officials. Who knows, perhaps I have been too hasty in believing all of the evidence that has leaked out thus far?

Either way it's not worth an argument until all of the facts about Trevon's criminal behavior are brought to light.

:cheers:

Edit- and as for the drug taskforce people being involved, Treyvon was a druggie who went to the store because he had the munchies late at night. I always assumed they found the drugs he sells on his body and that's why they questioned the Zman. I'll have to wait until the police report comes out to know if he had his drugs on him at the time, but it does seem an easy assumption to make.
What a load of hypocritic crap!

You are accepting Zimmerman's claim of being attacked as absolute truth with nothing but Zimmerman's testimony, which has changed and contradicted itself.

You are claiming that Martin, a 17 year old kid still in school, is a violent druggy criminal when absolutely nothing of the sort is evident for the night he was killed, or on any record prior to that night.

You accuse me of making predeterminations when all I have done is propose questions and possible scenarios, yet you are making all sorts of predeterminations about both Zimmerman and Martin.

I don't agree with Obama on any of this because Obama is trying to make this into a racial issue, which I have stated clearly that I do not believe.

Sometimes I think that people as leftist thinking as you are have no ability for reason whatsoever.

[BACnet]

What a load of hypocritic crap!

You are accepting Zimmerman's claim of being attacked as absolute truth with nothing but Zimmerman's testimony, which has changed and contradicted itself.

You are claiming that Martin, a 17 year old kid still in school, is a violent druggy criminal when absolutely nothing of the sort is evident for the night he was killed, or on any record prior to that night.

You accuse me of making predeterminations when all I have done is propose questions and possible scenarios, yet you are making all sorts of predeterminations about both Zimmerman and Martin.

I don't agree with Obama on any of this because Obama is trying to make this into a racial issue, which I have stated clearly that I do not believe.

Sometimes I think that people as leftist thinking as you are have no ability for reason whatsoever.

Now come on, Robo, you shouldn't call me names like that.

How is it that my side on this matter, the pro gun, pro self defense, anti gang member, anti druggie side is considered "leftist?" Surely you realize that your "damn the man" approach of backing the Black Panthers on this topic is pretty far to the left...

And please don't pretend that there is no history of the kid being a "violent druggie criminal." You seem not to have read any of the news articles since all of that stuff broke into the news cycle.

Perhaps you should read this article, entitled "Trayvon Martin Case: Why hasn't George Zimmerman been arrested? (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0328/Trayvon-Martin-case-Why-hasn-t-George-Zimmerman-been-arrested)"

In it, you'll read some pertinent information. That includes this:

On the day of the shooting, Sanford police officials determined that they did not have enough evidence to the contrary to detain Zimmerman. Whether they were suspicious of his story would not have mattered. They would have had to produce hard evidence to the contrary. The “probable cause” criterion is derived from the Constitution and is meant to protect against unreasonable arrest.


“The normal rule in American law is that a police officer must have ‘probable cause’ in order to arrest someone,” writes Kopel.

[stonefly]

heres's another, why this time was there no reaction like the rodney king incident or even going back farther the watts riots?
i see a lot of protest in the accepted american fashion but no civil disobediance or riot this time. do black americans feel represented now with "their guy" in the wh? has there been growth in race issues to where a pure destructive outflow of emotion is seen as less effective than organizing with such leaders as al sharpton to effect change?
Unfortunately, I think the nation as a whole has taken a major step backwards on racism due to the way Obama conducts himself over ethnic issues.

I remember well the days of desegregation, and we have gone back to many of those old attitudes with Obama in the WH.[/QUOTE]

well it's certainly clear he understands his constituency. speaking of constituency and old attitudes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3eTSbC3neA

[jmac00]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/spike-lee-zimmerman-tweet-567891


ooops, how many more "mistakes" are going to happen before someone else gets hurt or killed

Good job bonehead :censored:

[BACnet]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/spike-lee-zimmerman-tweet-567891


ooops, how many more "mistakes" are going to happen before someone else gets hurt or killed

Good job bonehead :censored:

Yeah, Spike Lee is certainly not helping the matter by trying to get mobs to murder all people with the last name Zimmerman.

I like this article about it better, but only because it turns the tables on these racists who want to lynch Zimmerman:
Racist Spike Lee Tweets Wrong Zimmerman Address (http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/racist-spike-lee-tweets-wrong-zimmerman-address/)

[newoldtech]

well i think you've answered your own question

could it be because the propaganda machine isn't interested in these crimes? It doesn't suite their agenda? heres's another, why this time was there no reaction like the rodney king incident or even going back farther the watts riots?
i see a lot of protest in the accepted american fashion but no civil disobediance or riot this time. do black americans feel represented now with "their guy" in the wh? has there been growth in race issues to where a pure destructive outflow of emotion is seen as less effective than organizing with such leaders as al sharpton to effect change?




If memory serves me correct the Rodney king riots happened after the trial and the Police officers were acquitted. So we dont know what would happen if Zimmerman is tried and found not guilty. Or if he's not tried at all. Alot of the race baiters are saying he should be arrested and tried. But that probably wont be enough for many if he is found not guilty. We may still have our riots yet.

[stonefly]

Yeah, Spike Lee is certainly not helping the matter by trying to get mobs to murder all people with the last name Zimmerman.

I like this article about it better, but only because it turns the tables on these racists who want to lynch Zimmerman:
Racist Spike Lee Tweets Wrong Zimmerman Address (http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/racist-spike-lee-tweets-wrong-zimmerman-address/)

turns the tables? hahahaha.........have you googled crenshaw district?

[BACnet]

If memory serves me correct the Rodney king riots happened after the trial and the Police officers were acquitted. So we dont know what would happen if Zimmerman is tried and found not guilty. Or if he's not tried at all. Alot of the race baiters are saying he should be arrested and tried. But that probably wont be enough for many if he is found not guilty. We may still have our riots yet.

In light of the fact that there seems to be no evidence of a crime, the most the race baiters & "leftists" can hope for is a civil trial. One wonders how low the bar is in that arena.

[BACnet]

turns the tables? hahahaha.........have you googled crenshaw district?

I'm not sure I understand your comment.

I meant "turn the tables," to mean that since Spike Lee posted some innocent people's address and sent his minions to lynch them, I find it amusing that the article I posted lists Spike Lee's address and suggests that people do what they want with him.

What does Crenshaw have to do with an NYC address and a Florida address?

[jmac00]

In light of the fact that there seems to be no evidence of a crime, the most the race baiters & "leftists" can hope for is a civil trial. One wonders how low the bar is in that arena.

there is no bar, The Castle Doctrine prevents civil law suites for wrongful death.

So the Martin family would have no case and no basis to sue.

[BACnet]

there is no bar, The Castle Doctrine prevents civil law suites for wrongful death.

So the Martin family would have no case and no basis to sue.

What about a financial aspect- like loss of loot from future burglaries he is now unable to commit?

(I am of course referring to the police reports that site him as being caught with a slim jim and a hoard of women's jewelry in his backpack back in October- long before his February drug bust issues that led to the current suspension) (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html)

[jmac00]

What about a financial aspect- like loss of loot from future burglaries he is now unable to commit?

(I am of course referring to the police reports that site him as being caught with a slim jim and a hoard of women's jewelry in his backpack back in October- long before his February drug bust issues that led to the current suspension) (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html)

the civil liability only refers to the Castle Doctrine (Stand your ground) and is only applicable IF the shooting was legal.

If Zimmerman is found guilty then the civil liability comes into play.

I found innocent, the Martin family can not sue

[stonefly]

I'm not sure I understand your comment.

I meant "turn the tables," to mean that since Spike Lee posted some innocent people's address and sent his minions to lynch them, I find it amusing that the article I posted lists Spike Lee's address and suggests that people do what they want with him.

What does Crenshaw have to do with an NYC address and a Florida address?

oh, i knew what you meant but in point of fact spike lee and the other celebrities only passed on the tweet. (as people will do) the person that initiated it "higgins" (there first on that most unhelpful counter list) hails from crenshaw district and i can assure you no septigenarian jewish couples will be going there to take issue with it.

[stonefly]

If memory serves me correct the Rodney king riots happened after the trial and the Police officers were acquitted. So we dont know what would happen if Zimmerman is tried and found not guilty. Or if he's not tried at all. Alot of the race baiters are saying he should be arrested and tried. But that probably wont be enough for many if he is found not guilty. We may still have our riots yet.

well that's the big concern isn't it? the public didn't have access to all the facts in the rodney king case either but there was no claim that the video was altered in any way. did you see that video? if rodney king had just killed ronald reagan what they were doing to him was a crime. that whole episode was caused by the los angeles police dept. getting caught at what they were well known for. there has since been somewhat of a cleanup in that agency. yes i said "cleanup" as in firing of dirty cops. i really don't know what a "race baiter" would be but i would much prefer zimmerman answer for what he has done and an example made that can be included in subsequent police training than to keep going through this sort of thing. i feel no need to protect him, the police cheif there felt differently. the two of them have been caught out and whatever happens the fault of it is clear.

[stonefly]

the civil liability only refers to the Castle Doctrine (Stand your ground) and is only applicable IF the shooting was legal.

If Zimmerman is found guilty then the civil liability comes into play.

I found innocent, the Martin family can not sue

tell that to O.J.

[glennac]

I'm not sure I understand your comment.

I meant "turn the tables," to mean that since Spike Lee posted some innocent people's address and sent his minions to lynch them, I find it amusing that the article I posted lists Spike Lee's address and suggests that people do what they want with him.

What does Crenshaw have to do with an NYC address and a Florida address?

Funny it has already been suggested here that maybe the witnesses won't show up. Wouldn't be very surprised about that with the Black Panthers offering $10,000 for Zimmerman's head. What would the witnesses say if they did testify? Tell what they told the police and risk getting killed? Yeah if Zimmerman is tried he might get thrown to the wolves with no one willing to describe how Zimmerman was getting smashed on the ground hollering help.

Why haven't the Black Panthers being charged with a felony for offering ten grand for Zimmerman's head. Why haven't they been charged also for felony interference with an investigation, intimidation of witnesses, etc. Yeah there is a lot to find out here all right. Thank you, thank you very much

[Gib's Son]

Funny it has already been suggested here that maybe the witnesses won't show up. Wouldn't be very surprised about that with the Black Panthers offering $10,000 for Zimmerman's head. What would the witnesses say if they did testify? Tell what they told the police and risk getting killed? Yeah if Zimmerman is tried he might get thrown to the wolves with no one willing to describe how Zimmerman was getting smashed on the ground hollering help.

Why haven't the Black Panthers being charged with a felony for offering ten grand for Zimmerman's head. Why haven't they been charged also for felony interference with an investigation, intimidation of witnesses, etc. Yeah there is a lot to find out here all right. Thank you, thank you very much

Because the great uniter is really the great divider. He is the most documented liar President in the history of the U.S; and the most racist. I am convinced he would be giddy over a race war so he can declare martial law to ensure another term and finish his destruction of the U.S.A. and the Constitution.

[jmac00]

Ok, I just had a nice long talk with a Local Assistant District Attorney down at the gun club about the Zimmerman/Martin case. (Remember she is working off the same basic info we are, but this was her perspective on the matter)

There is going to be a lot of *IF's* because nothing has been proven yet

based on the information she said the reason Zimmerman was not arrested was that "IF in fact he was going back to his vehicle after engaging Martin, Zimmerman was no longer the aggressor (boy is that going to make a lot of people mad) and IF in fact Martin did hit Zimmerman, that made Martin the aggressor, therefore the "stand your ground" law does come into effect, Zimmerman had every right to defend himself. AND there is a witness that said Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Now i know a lot of people keep saying Zimmerman is a bigger than Martin, IF the witness says that Martin sucker punched or struck Zimmerman the disparity of force is NOT applicable.

Now as far as Spike Lee and the Black Panthers actions go, what they did actually comes under the heading of HATE CRIME, by inciting people to take illegal action. Spike Lee can be sued by the nice folks at the address he tweeted and the Black Panther thing, well that's a no brainer, they have a big problem. Will the police do anything about it, who knows.

The basic premiss is this, The same thing I have been saying all along, is let the justice system do it's job. A grand Jury is being convened. A special Prosecutor has been appointed, Let the system work. It may not be as fast as everyone wants but the truth will eventually come out. Some people are going to be very disappointed and angry. Others are going to disappointed and angry....either way, nothing good will come from this tragedy.

[stonefly]

castle doctrine in florida applies only to residence, place of business and (inside) vehicle. he's getting sued either way and it doesn't have any bearing on the altercation. it may come down to how far martin persued him after he (zimmerman) withdrew and whether the jury feels martin should no longer reasonably have been in a "fight or flight" state of mind after having been confronted by zimmerman with a gun.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

[jmac00]

castle doctrine in florida applies only to residence, place of business and (inside) vehicle. he's getting sued either way and it doesn't have any bearing on the altercation. it may come down to how far martin persued him after he (zimmerman) withdrew and whether the jury feels martin should no longer reasonably have been in a "fight or flight" state of mind after having been confronted by zimmerman with a gun.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

from that FAQ,


Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

IF (big *if*) Martin tried to grab Zimmerman's gun during the struggle, the law applies. If not then you are correct.

Now in NYS, even if someone breaks into our home, we (NY residence) have a duty to retreat to a bedroom or safe room until Police arrive or the intruder leaves. We can not shoot someone if they are stealing our flat screen TV and they are not armed.~~~*Technically*. Now who's to say they didn't grab a kitchen knife?? :whistle: if you know what I mean

[stonefly]

i do indeed know what you mean.
yeah zimmer claimed self defence right from the git go but it looks like it may be a 60lb lighter kid bouncing his head on the pavement is all hes got on that. i don't think he was doing that with one hand and grabbing for the gun with the other. florida...what a mess.





della...would you have paul come in please :grin2:

[RoBoTeq]

The self defense claim is not looking very good according to the police video of Zimmerman at the police station. There is no blood or bruises on Zimmerman and the back of his jacket doesn't look like it's ever been on the ground;

The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning.
His lawyer later insisted that Zimmerman's nose had been broken in his scuffle with 17-year-old Martin.
In the video an officer is seen pausing to look at the back of Zimmerman's head, but no abrasions or blood can be seen in the video and he did not check into the emergency room following the police questioning. http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html

So, Zimmerman is in a lot better physical shape then we are being led to believe. His alleged injuries are no where near what Zimmerman's attorney is claiming. His jacket is not grass stained or even wet, as we have been told Zimmerman claimed that Martin knocked him to the ground and was beating his head on the ground.

The girlfriend on the phone is testifying that she heard Zimmerman questioning Martin moments before she heard a scuffle and the line went dead, so Zimmerman was not being pursued by Martin as he claims he was.

Hell, for all we know, Zimmerman walked up to Martin with his gun drawn and accidentally pulled the trigger. One things for certain, the only one still alive is not telling the truth.

[jmac00]

at this point, Im going to wait for a Grand Jury's conclusions.

the propaganda machine is turning out to much crap. There are to many *IF's*.

[printer2]

Surprised no one has brought out the obvious. Now if Mr. Z was armed with a shotgun, would this episode have ended the way it did?

[glennac]

Surprised no one has brought out the obvious. Now if Mr. Z was armed with a shotgun, would this episode have ended the way it did?

Well the latest report says there are six witnesses to various parts of the episode and none have contradicted Zimmerman's story. One eyewitness is a young Black male who saw Zimmerman on the ground getting pounded. But we are to believe the "enraged" racist mob as to what happened, amazing indeed.

Now none of these witnesses are naturally to happy about identifying themselves to those demanding Zimmerman's head. It's not like there are not dozens of Black kids getting killed by gang bangers across the country every day which the so called enraged mob could be legitimately enraged about.

Then what about the Whites getting killed by Black hoodlums daily across the country, who is morning for them. Oh well this stuff has been going on since the beginning of the civil rights movement over 58 years ago. Anything for an excuse to get offended and mad about.:.02: Thank you, thank you very much

[jmac00]

Here is the actual uncut 911 call.

Someone explain to me how Martin got shot if in fact he ran towards another entrance to the neighborhood.

At no time during this call does Martin and Zimmerman come in contact with each other, neither one speaks to the other.

In fact Zimmerman can be heard saying "I don't know where this kid is"

so, exactly how did Martin get shot, if he ran away and Zimmerman lost track of him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCvr9V2pig

[printer2]

Here is the actual uncut 911 call.

Someone explain to me how Martin got shot if in fact he ran towards another entrance to the neighborhood.

At no time during this call does Martin and Zimmerman come in contact with each other, neither one speaks to the other.

In fact Zimmerman can be heard saying "I don't know where this kid is"

so, exactly how did Martin get shot, if he ran away and Zimmerman lost track of him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCvr9V2pig

Well Fate must have intervened as they did meet up after the call and the kid got shot. As far as Zimmerman being beat up, he looks pretty healthy at the police station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkUKJg8f0c

[jmac00]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/paying-the-price-for-cancelled-easter-egg-hunt-28782928.html

talk about media spin :gah:

[RoBoTeq]

Once again, the entire reason for this issue getting so much press is because of how badly it was mishandled by the so called legal system.

The more that factual information is coming out about Zimmerman, all of which was deliberately attempted to be avoided by the "justice" system, the more we see why it is a good thing that Martin's killing was not just allowed to be whitewashed by the DA's office.

So far, physical evidence does not support anything that Zimmerman has claimed occurred....NOT ONE THING!

All physical evidence; no indication on Martin's body that there was ever a struggle or that Martin ever hit Zimmerman, no blood or bruising on Zimmerman at the police station, no grass stains or water on Zimmerman's jacket at the police station, the fact that Zimmerman must have approached Martin, the phone call with Martin's girlfriend........none of it supports anything that Zimmerman has claimed.

I still don't think it was racially motivated, but Zimmerman certainly seems to be a dangerous sort of person to be allowed any authority.


The New York Daily News reported Friday that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security guard for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying that "usually he was just a cool guy. ... But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57406927/report-zimmerman-described-as-jekyll-and-hyde/?tag=strip

You could hear Zimmerman working himself up on the 911 tape.



Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Has anyone read anything about whether or not there were powder burn marks on Martin? Would there not be powder burn marks on Martin if Zimmerman shot Martin while being beaten? Just how far from Martin was Zimmerman when he pulled the trigger?

[RoBoTeq]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/paying-the-price-for-cancelled-easter-egg-hunt-28782928.html

talk about media spin :gah:
Jeff, have you finally lost it? What does an Easter Egg Hunt event have to do with anything?

[RoBoTeq]

Other people questioning how much Zimmerman's judge daddy is protecting Zimmerman.....again;

According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence — a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.
All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident. So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun? Maybe that’s a question Robert Zimmerman should answer …

It is a shame that both liberal and conservative media and organizations are interferring with proper justice being done over this incident.

This was not a racist incident. This incident has nothing to do with guns being dangerous (although it may have to do with people like Zimmerman being dangerous) and this incident has nothing to do with anything other then do we have the right to kill one another because we don't like each other walking in "our" neighborhoods.

If the latter is the case, I'm gonna set up a shooting gallery aimed right at the road that passes in front of my house. Every biker with loud pipes, every tractor trailer using jake breaks and every other loud vehicle will be the first to receive lead greetings.

[newoldtech]

This was not a racist incident. This incident has nothing to do with guns being dangerous (although it may have to do with people like Zimmerman being dangerous) and this incident has nothing to do with anything other then do we have the right to kill one another because we don't like each other walking in "our" neighborhoods.

.


Many things about this case are speculation, especially for now. You cant say for sure that this shooting wasn't at least in part racially motivated. I'm not saying that Zimmerman hates black people and couldn't wait to shoot one. But I am saying that it is certainly possible that if it was a white kid walking around that night, that there is certainly a chance that Zimmerman wouldn't of been hot on his trail. Racial profiling? Maybe? Is it wrong? This time it may prove to be wrong. We will probably never know for sure exactly what happened that night. Moreover we almost definitely will never know exactly what was in Zimmermans head. His lawyers and Daddy from here on will tell him what he was, and is thinking.

[RoBoTeq]

Many things about this case are speculation, especially for now. You cant say for sure that this shooting wasn't at least in part racially motivated. I'm not saying that Zimmerman hates black people and couldn't wait to shoot one. But I am saying that it is certainly possible that if it was a white kid walking around that night, that there is certainly a chance that Zimmerman wouldn't of been hot on his trail. Racial profiling? Maybe? Is it wrong? This time it may prove to be wrong. We will probably never know for sure exactly what happened that night. Moreover we almost definitely will never know exactly what was in Zimmermans head. His lawyers and Daddy from here on will tell him what he was, and is thinking.
Racially motivated is not the same as racist. If I am attacked by a White guy, I should not have the police looking for a Black guy. I need to racially profile based on the experience, which is what it seems that Zimmerman was doing. There were issues in the neighborhood pertaining to Black youth, so the fact that Martin was a Black youth does put him in the "profile" of those who had been causing trouble. It just doesn't seem like Zimmerman wanted to harm Martin just because Martin was Black.

Zimmerman does seem to have profiled Martin based on criminal activity, not just because he was Black. Had Martin been an older Black man, Zimmerman may not have given him a second look.

[jmac00]

Jeff, have you finally lost it? What does an Easter Egg Hunt event have to do with anything?

how the freaking heck did that happen

BWHAHAHAHAHA ooopps:whistle:

lets try this again: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/did-nbc-news-lie-in-trayvon-martin-reporting-28782061.html

[Gib's Son]

Many things about this case are speculation, especially for now. You cant say for sure that this shooting wasn't at least in part racially motivated. I'm not saying that Zimmerman hates black people and couldn't wait to shoot one. But I am saying that it is certainly possible that if it was a white kid walking around that night, that there is certainly a chance that Zimmerman wouldn't of been hot on his trail. Racial profiling? Maybe? Is it wrong? This time it may prove to be wrong. We will probably never know for sure exactly what happened that night. Moreover we almost definitely will never know exactly what was in Zimmermans head. His lawyers and Daddy from here on will tell him what he was, and is thinking.

Zimmerman and his wife tutored black kids during their spare time. Does that sound like a racist? Not justifying actions, but this was a gated community and Martin did not belong there. I too would have been very suspect.

I live in a very remote area, only 4 people on our dead end road, un-named road. Not too long ago all of us noticed allot of suspicious activity on our road; cars that do not belong, traffic through the orchards in the middle of the night when no orchard work is going on. We pulled together to pull an extra diligent watch for one another. One of my neighbors had a few things stolen, mid day. I have been a victim of strong arm robbery and numerous thefts; cars, motorcycles, bicycles, tools. I was not there so I can't attest to the fatal shooting, but I assure you, I would have followed Martin to the ends of the earth until the Police showed up. Dispatch, is NOT the same as Police.

My gut tells me Martin was up to no good, the rest of the story, only God knows for sure.

[printer2]

Whether he was there for no good or not does not give justification for being dead, at least we have no indication he was doing something that deserves the death sentence. Now if someone's actions results in the death or another person there is usually some consequence in pretty much every society on earth. Defiantly a trial is in order where Mr. Z should have the opportunity to defend himself. Anything less would be a travesty of justice.

The racial thing is a red herring, what is also on trial here is the Florida stand your ground law. While good intentioned, this case may give reason for second thought.

[Gib's Son]

Whether he was there for no good or not does not give justification for being dead,

This is the part of the debate that drive me batty! You don't know what occurred and neither to do I. Would Zimmerman give a true and actual account of what occurred? I doubt it. I know if I were in his shoes I would do everything I could to stack the deck in my favor. Did the so called witness actually "witness" what occurred and give a true statement? Who knows.

If someone attacked me and I had a gun on me, I would kill them, plain and simple.

And this is more than just a challenge on the stand your ground issue. It's another attack to revoke our right to own guns. Just look at the stupid "rules of engagement" our soldiers need to abide by. It is just another opportunity to further their agenda.

I really want to back out of this conversation because none of us will ever no the real truth of what actually occurred, not enough witnesses.

That being said, Zimmerman and his family do not deserve the injustice that has been perpetrated upon them by the Black Panthers and this two faced racist administration, members of congress and the Hollywood crowd.

[newoldtech]

Zimmerman and his wife tutored black kids during their spare time. Does that sound like a racist? Not justifying actions, but this was a gated community and Martin did not belong there. I too would have been very suspect.

.


I'm not sure where you get he did not belong there. From what I've heard he was staying with his Dads fiancee who lives there. As far as them tutoring black kids, that far from conclusive of anything. Thats like the guy who says I'm not racist, I have a black friend. Even Archie Bunker liked Sammy Davis Jr. As I've said I dont think Zimmerman went out with intention of killing a black person. But Martin being black may of contributed to it. Hopefully some conclusive facts will emerge.

[Tool-Slinger]

This is the part of the debate that drive me batty! You don't know what occurred and neither to do I. Would Zimmerman give a true and actual account of what occurred? I doubt it. I know if I were in his shoes I would do everything I could to stack the deck in my favor. Did the so called witness actually "witness" what occurred and give a true statement? Who knows.

If someone attacked me and I had a gun on me, I would kill them, plain and simple.

And this is more than just a challenge on the stand your ground issue. It's another attack to revoke our right to own guns. Just look at the stupid "rules of engagement" our soldiers need to abide by. It is just another opportunity to further their agenda.

I really want to back out of this conversation because none of us will ever no the real truth of what actually occurred, not enough witnesses.

That being said, Zimmerman and his family do not deserve the injustice that has been perpetrated upon them by the Black Panthers and this two faced racist administration, members of congress and the Hollywood crowd.
I pretty much agree with this word-for-word.

If the zimmerman account of the facts are truth, I say it was a fully justified shooting. But of course he may by lying. That is pretty much why I been quiet on topic lately.

Zimmerman MAY be guilty. Martin MAY be guilty. But obama and black panthers are among those that ARE guilty. And I am figuring the black panthers are actually criminally guilty. WTF is with 'reward for capture'???? Where is eric holder when you need him?

[Gib's Son]

I have neither heard, nor read, that he was staying with his father that lived there.

Are you to be congratulated because you have a "Black Friend". Seriously? Archie Bunker was a frictional character to make R's look like hypocrites racists and bigots. Seriously, you can do much better than that.

You and everyone else can make the accusation that race had something to do with it, BUT KNOWN OF US KNOW FOR SURE!! Only Zimmerman and God know that.

[printer2]

We just had a high profile murder case wind up here where a guy's wife got killed with an axe in their back yard, she was taken and dumped in her car in town. Lot of circumstantial evidence and give all the factors it is highly unlikely that anyone else would have done it. But with no direct evidence the jury had to find him not guilty.

Hopefully the cops can recreate some of the events from the crime scene but short of that you can only get one of the guy's version of the story.

[Gib's Son]

But obama and black panthers are among those that ARE guilty. And I am figuring the black panthers are actually criminally guilty. WTF is with 'reward for capture'????

:putergreet::putergreet::putergreet:

[jmac00]

Whether he was there for no good or not does not give justification for being dead, at least we have no indication he was doing something that deserves the death sentence. Now if someone's actions results in the death or another person there is usually some consequence in pretty much every society on earth. Defiantly a trial is in order where Mr. Z should have the opportunity to defend himself. Anything less would be a travesty of justice.

The racial thing is a red herring, what is also on trial here is the Florida stand your ground law. While good intentioned, this case may give reason for second thought.

by all accounts (read the 911 dispatch tape) Zimmerman lost track of Martin after Martin RAN AWAY and towards a alternate entrance to the neighborhood. Zimmerman was actually waiting for the cops and says so towards the end of the 911 tape.

AT THAT POINT Zimmerman is no longer the aggressor. Between the end of the tape and just before the Cops arrive an altercation occurs between Zimmerman and Martin in which, ACCORDING TO WITNESSES Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him. Zimmerman is now the victim and Martin is now the aggressor. The "stand your ground" law now applies.

IF Martin ran away, how did he get shot? The only explanation is he must have come back and engaged Zimmerman?

The problem is how the media is portraying the entire incident.

In Kansas last week a White boy was viciously attacked by two Black youths, The Black kids caught Allen Goin on his porch, the BLACK KIDS doused the WHITE BOY with Gasoline and set him on fire.....

why have we not heard ONE FREAKING WORD ABOUT THIS IN THE MEDIA. Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, why have they not denounced the heinous crime. Why has the Black Panthers not put out a bounty on the Black kids, Because it does not suite there agenda, period.

If you don't think the media is culpable in this circus, think again

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/did-nbc-news-lie-in-trayvon-martin-reporting-28782061.html

[jmac00]

I pretty much agree with this word-for-word.

If the zimmerman account of the facts are truth, I say it was a fully justified shooting. But of course he may by lying. That is pretty much why I been quiet on topic lately.

Zimmerman MAY be guilty. Martin MAY be guilty. But obama and black panthers are among those that ARE guilty. And I am figuring the black panthers are actually criminally guilty. WTF is with 'reward for capture'???? Where is eric holder when you need him?


according to a friend of mine that is Monroe County Assistant District Attorney (Rochester), these comments and the 'bounty" by the Black Panthers IS A HATE CRIME and should be prosecuted as such.

whether that ever happens or not??? who knows.

[Gib's Son]

by all accounts (read the 911 dispatch tape) Zimmerman lost track of Martin after Martin [U][B]RAN AWAY and towards a alternate entrance to the neighborhood. Zimmerman was actually waiting for the cops and says so towards the end of the 911 tape.

AT THAT POINT Zimmerman is no longer the aggressor. Between the end of the tape and just before the Cops arrive an altercation occurs between Zimmerman and Martin in which, ACCORDING TO WITNESSES Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him. Zimmerman is now the victim and Martin is now the aggressor. The "stand your ground" law now applies.

IF Martin ran away, how did he get shot? The only explanation is he must have come back and engaged Zimmerman?

The problem is how the media is portraying the entire incident.

In Kansas last week a White boy was viciously attacked by two Black youths, The Black kids caught Allen Goin on his porch, the BLACK KIDS doused the WHITE BOY with Gasoline and set him on fire.....

why have we not heard ONE FREAKING WORD ABOUT THIS IN THE MEDIA. Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, why have they not denounced the heinous crime. Why has the Black Panthers not put out a bounty on the Black kids, Because it does not suite there agenda, period.

If you don't think the media is culpable in this circus, think again

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/did-nbc-news-lie-in-trayvon-martin-reporting-28782061.html

Atta-boy Mac: I posted a thread re-this crime; and a few others that have occurred; especially since the Martin case. As I have stated, black on white crime will not be prosecuted or reported under this administration.

These people WANT a race a race war; I am convinced of that. There are too many things that can be gained from such an event and no other explanation for their actions, and lack thereof.

[stonefly]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/19/148937626/trayvon-martin-killing-puts-stand-your-ground-law-in-spotlight


looks like it was past practice not to arrest in similar cases.

[newoldtech]

I have neither heard, nor read, that he was staying with his father that lived there.

Are you to be congratulated because you have a "Black Friend". Seriously? Archie Bunker was a frictional character to make R's look like hypocrites racists and bigots. Seriously, you can do much better than that.

You and everyone else can make the accusation that race had something to do with it, BUT KNOWN OF US KNOW FOR SURE!! Only Zimmerman and God know that.


Here is a link that says he was visiting his Dad at his Dads fiancee's home. I've heard it several times and just assumed it as true. And I never said it was me in the the black friend story, it was just an analogy, so I dont need to be congratulated. And please show me where I said race had something to do with it? I just said it might of. I think any objective person at this point thinks it MIGHT of. And yes I would hope everyone would know that Archie Bunker is fictional.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvons-mother-they-killed-my-son-now-they-want-to-kill-his-reputation.php#46858946

[RoBoTeq]

by all accounts (read the 911 dispatch tape) Zimmerman lost track of Martin after Martin [U][B]RAN AWAY and towards a alternate entrance to the neighborhood. Zimmerman was actually waiting for the cops and says so towards the end of the 911 tape.

AT THAT POINT Zimmerman is no longer the aggressor. Between the end of the tape and just before the Cops arrive an altercation occurs between Zimmerman and Martin in which, ACCORDING TO WITNESSES Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him. Zimmerman is now the victim and Martin is now the aggressor. The "stand your ground" law now applies.

IF Martin ran away, how did he get shot? The only explanation is he must have come back and engaged Zimmerman?

The problem is how the media is portraying the entire incident.

In Kansas last week a White boy was viciously attacked by two Black youths, The Black kids caught Allen Goin on his porch, the BLACK KIDS doused the WHITE BOY with Gasoline and set him on fire.....

why have we not heard ONE FREAKING WORD ABOUT THIS IN THE MEDIA. Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, why have they not denounced the heinous crime. Why has the Black Panthers not put out a bounty on the Black kids, Because it does not suite there agenda, period.

If you don't think the media is culpable in this circus, think again

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/opinion-22424936/did-nbc-news-lie-in-trayvon-martin-reporting-28782061.html
I don't know what version of the 911 call you are listening to, but the one I heard ended with Zimmerman saying that he was following Martin.

Why are you completely ignoring the testimony of the girlfriend who says she heard Zimmerman approaching Martin?

You really sound like you only want to hear one side of this story and are willing to believe Zimmerman, no matter how much physical evidence does not support his claims.

[jmac00]

This IS NOT the official transcript but it's the best one I could find

Ok, lets go through this LINE BY LINE (my comments will be in parenthesis and italicized) <-----Like this

Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.(this is the first time the question of race comes up, and the DISPATCHER instigated the question of race, it's a common question asked by operators)

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:

Now he’s staring at me. [00:48] (the two participants make eye contact, but no communication between them occurs)

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03](Martin advances on Zimmerman, again no verbal communication is heard between participants)


911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.

He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20](Martin continues to advance on Zimmerman)

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK? (apparently, the dispatcher is concerned about Zimmerman's safety)

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else. (I'm not sure what "on the wire" means)

Zimmerman:

OK.

These aszholes. They always get away.

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39] (no racial slur is used at this point, after several burglaries in the area we can surmise Z means thief, but he could mean black person)


911 dispatcher:

OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

He’s running. [2:08] (Martin takes off, why? if he has a legal right to be where he is, why run AWAY)

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14] (Evidence that MARTIN IS RUNNING AWAY FROM Zimmerman and he attempts to give chase)

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[I](this is the first and only time Zimmerman makes a racial slur)

(if you listen to the CNN version, this is the point CNN edits the tape)


911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25] (Zimmerman admits he is attempting to chase, Martin)

911 dispatcher:

OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26] (dispatcher tells Zimmerman to stop chasing Martin)

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28] (Zimmerman complies with dispatch and STOPS THE CHASE~~~Zimmerman IS NO LONGER THE AGGRESSOR)

911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman: (Zimmerman has stopped the chase)
George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?

Zimmerman:


911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Zimmerman:
XXX

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:
Yeah.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s XXX – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [3:40] [I](Zimmerman admits he has LOST TRACK OF MARTIN)


(*****at this point he has no idea where martin is and there is normal banter between Zimmerman and Dispatch*****)


911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]

911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.

Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?

911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. XXX

Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:
Thanks.

911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.

Call ends 4:07

==================================

Martin runs away, Zimmerman WHILE ON THE PHONE WITH DISPATCH lost track of Martins whereabouts, The question is, why did Martin come back

[RoBoTeq]

This IS NOT the official transcript but it's the best one I could find

Ok, lets go through this LINE BY LINE (my comments will be in parenthesis and italicized) <-----Like this

Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. (Zimmerman is predetermining that Martin is a suspicious looking person. WHY? This is strictly Zimmerman's prejudgement of Martin, who, according to Martin's girlfriend was ducking under the clubhouse canopy to get out of the rain. So, Martin is talking on the phone and pacing, just like most of us do when we are talking on the phone. All suspicious activity is in Zimmerman's head, and Zimmerman is known to be an aggressive authoritian with three arrests involving Zimmerman's escalation of incidences.)

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25] (Again, Martin is walking around, under the canopy, talking to his girlfriend. Martin is doing nothing unusual except in the mind of Zimmerman. Zimmerman is ramping himself up over obsessing on Martin. Assuming Zimmerman is in his vehicle, Martin may or may not yet be aware of Zimmerman.)

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.(this is the first time the question of race comes up, and the DISPATCHER instigated the question of race, it's a common question asked by operators) (I agree that this was not a racially motivated incident)

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK. (This was an assumption of the dispatcher. Martin was not walking around the area near the houses.)

Zimmerman:

Now he’s staring at me. [00:48] (the two participants make eye contact, but no communication between them occurs) (If Martin has now taken notice of Zimmerman watching him, what is Martin thinking Zimmerman is watching him for? If you are standing under a canopy to keep out of the rain while talking on the phone and see someone watching you, what would you be thinking?)

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That’s the clubhouse. (Zimmerman did not make clear that Martin was at the clubhouse all along because Zimmerman let the dispatcher go on believing that Martin was walking around the houses.)

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now? (Now the dispatcher thinks that Martin has moved from looking at the houses to looking at the clubhouse, which is not what occurred, according to both Zimmerman and Martin's girlfriend.)

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03](Martin advances on Zimmerman, again no verbal communication is heard between participants) (If this is accurate, was Martin attempting to see if he knew the person who was watching him? Zimmerman continues to phsych himself up by creating a dangerous scenario. Zimmerman has a gun, so Zimmerman is looking for a weapon on Martin. There is no real indication that any weapon exists on Martin. For someone who is supposed to be a "watcher", how does Zimmerman miss the bottle of tea in Martin's hand or that Martin is on the phone? I suppose Martin could have been using an ear piece. I think I read that Martin's girlfriend mentioned an ear piece. Still, martin is talking to someone but Zimmerman never mentions this.)


911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens. (So, Zimmerman can tell Martin's age and ethnicity, but cannot tell that Martin is talking to someone or that Martin is carrying a bottle of tea? It really sounds like Zimmerman is working himself up to a conflict.)

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.

He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20](Martin continues to advance on Zimmerman) (Zimmerman builds up his suspicions even more dramatically. Is Mating still trying to figure out if he knows this person who has been watching him? If you saw someone in a vehicle watching you, would you be curious to know if you knew that person? Keep in mind that Martin has no idea about the suspicious person who is acting strange scenario that Zimmerman is creating in his mind. Martin is just walking home after buying snacks and talking to his girlfriend in the rain.)

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK? (apparently, the dispatcher is concerned about Zimmerman's safety) (The dispatcher can only go on what Zimmerman is telling them.)

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else. (I'm not sure what "on the wire" means)

Zimmerman:

OK.

These aszholes. They always get away. (Zimmerman is really pumping himself up now.)

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39] (no racial slur is used at this point, after several burglaries in the area we can surmise Z means thief, but he could mean black person)


911 dispatcher:

OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

He’s running. [2:08] (Martin takes off, why? if he has a legal right to be where he is, why run AWAY) (Is this the point where Martin tells his girlfriend that someone is following him? Is this when Martin's girlfriend tells Martin to run? Did Martin decide to continue on home at this point to get away from this person who is stalking him? The evidence and timeline points to YES, Martin started to move to get away from Zimmerman.)

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14] (Evidence that MARTIN IS RUNNING AWAY FROM Zimmerman and he attempts to give chase) (Exactly. Martin is trying to get away from someone who is stalking him. According to Martin's girlfriend, at this point, Martin is scared and she is afraid for him.)

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[I](this is the first and only time Zimmerman makes a racial slur) (Zimmerman really does not want Martin to escape out of the neighborhood. Zimmerman wanst to capture Martin. Zimmerman wants justice done for all of the things that Zimmerman has built up in his head that Martin must have done. At this point, Zimmerman is aggressively chasing down a Martin who is trying to get away from someone who has been stalking him in the rain.)

(if you listen to the CNN version, this is the point CNN edits the tape)


911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25] (Zimmerman admits he is attempting to chase, Martin) (Once again, exactly. Zimmerman is not a neighborhood watch person, he is aggressively chasing down Martin. According to Martin's girlfriend, Marting told her he was not going to run but would walk away from this guy who has been stalking him. Now that Martin is trying to get out of the neighborhood, Zimmerman is chasing him down.)

911 dispatcher:

OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26] (dispatcher tells Zimmerman to stop chasing Martin)

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28] (Zimmerman complies with dispatch and STOPS THE CHASE~~~Zimmerman IS NO LONGER THE AGGRESSOR) (REALLY! You really believe that at this point Zimmerman stopped following Martin, who was trying to get away from Zimmerman? There is no indication that Zimmerman ever stopped following Martin, none at all.)

911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman: (Zimmerman has stopped the chase) (We do not know this. This is your assumption.)
George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?

Zimmerman:


911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Zimmerman:
XXX

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:
Yeah.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s XXX – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [3:40] [I](Zimmerman admits he has LOST TRACK OF MARTIN) (This contradicts your assumption that Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin. Zimmerman may have slowed down, but it sounds like he was still trying to keep track of Martin.)


(*****at this point he has no idea where martin is and there is normal banter between Zimmerman and Dispatch*****)


911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49] (Why would Zimmerman have to tell the police where he was at if Zimmerman were actually going to go to the mailboxes rather then continue looking for Martin? Zimmerman was obviously still looking for Martin and did not know where he would be when the police arrived.)

911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.

Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?

911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. XXX

Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:
Thanks.

911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.

Call ends 4:07

==================================

Martin runs away, Zimmerman WHILE ON THE PHONE WITH DISPATCH lost track of Martins whereabouts, The question is, why did Martin come back (We have no indication whatsoever that Martin came back and every indication that Zimmerman never stopped following Martin.)
All I can say, Jeff, is that you are worse then any of the leftists I have heard when it comes to your interpretations of what Zimmerman said and what might have been actually happenning. I put my comments in blue to what you have posted.

There is no indication that Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin. If Martin's girlfriend's testimony is accurate, Zimmerman did continue going after Martin and Martin asked Zimmerman why is he following Martin. Rather then answer Martin, the girlfriend hears Zimmerman ask martin what he is doing there. At that point, the girlfriend hears a scuffle and the phone goes dead. If this testimony is accurate, and the timeline and the phone records all indicate that the timing was right for this point of contact to have occurred, then Zimmerman did approach Martin and confront Martin. Did Zimmerman at tha point push Martin because Zimmerman was so pumped up? Did Martin at that point push Zimmerman because he was afraid of this man who has been stalking him? Either way, Zimmerman is lying about how contact was made.

Where are the grass stains and wetness on Zimmerman's jacket at the police station? Where is there any evidence of Zimmerman's alleged broken nose? Where are the bruises and blood on Zimmerman from the alleged beating that Martin gave him? Was the head injury or bloody nose not bad enough to have bled on Zimmerman's jacket?

Where is Martin's cell phone? Why did the police not redial the last call made by Martin? Where are the marks on Martin's hands indicating he had just beat Zimmerman? Are there powder burns on Martin's clothes, indicating a close range shooting or did Zimmerman shoot Martin from a relatively safe distance?

No, Jeff, you are the one who is making stuff up here. You are the one who is completely ignoring real evidence and only taking what Zimmerman is claiming as exactly what happened. As the evidence trickles out, it also appears that there has been a cover up of crucial evidence and with no mention of Martin's cell phone, no police interest in Martin's girlfriend's testimony and no claims of powder burns on Martin's clothes.

[jmac00]

This IS NOT the official transcript but it's the best one I could find

Ok, lets go through this LINE BY LINE (my comments will be in parenthesis and italicized) <-----Like this

Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. (Zimmerman is predetermining that Martin is a suspicious looking person. WHY? This is strictly Zimmerman's prejudgement of Martin, who, according to Martin's girlfriend was ducking under the clubhouse canopy to get out of the rain. So, Martin is talking on the phone and pacing, just like most of us do when we are talking on the phone. All suspicious activity is in Zimmerman's head, and Zimmerman is known to be an aggressive authoritian with three arrests involving Zimmerman's escalation of incidences.)

Of course he thinks Martin is suspicious, It's the gated community mentality, I see people walk down my street every day who don't belong here, three weeks ago my neighbor had a brick thrown threw her kitchen window and black man attempted to enter her home, she is German and took a baseball bat to the guy, he left quickly, Imagine that!

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25] (Again, Martin is walking around, under the canopy, talking to his girlfriend. Martin is doing nothing unusual except in the mind of Zimmerman. Zimmerman is ramping himself up over obsessing on Martin. Assuming Zimmerman is in his vehicle, Martin may or may not yet be aware of Zimmerman.)

Supposition on your part, Zimmerman is calmly talking to the dispatcher



911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.(this is the first time the question of race comes up, and the DISPATCHER instigated the question of race, it's a common question asked by operators) (I agree that this was not a racially motivated incident)

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK. (This was an assumption of the dispatcher. Martin was not walking around the area near the houses.)

No it's not, it's question


Zimmerman:

Now he’s staring at me. [00:48] (the two participants make eye contact, but no communication between them occurs) (If Martin has now taken notice of Zimmerman watching him, what is Martin thinking Zimmerman is watching him for? If you are standing under a canopy to keep out of the rain while talking on the phone and see someone watching you, what would you be thinking?)

I wouldn't care if someone is watching me, If Im not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That’s the clubhouse. (Zimmerman did not make clear that Martin was at the clubhouse all along because Zimmerman let the dispatcher go on believing that Martin was walking around the houses.)


The dispatcher asked a question as to the address, Zimmerman answered, again your making assumptions of what Zimmerman was thinking

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now? (Now the dispatcher thinks that Martin has moved from looking at the houses to looking at the clubhouse, which is not what occurred, according to both Zimmerman and Martin's girlfriend.)

Again, more assumption on your part on what the dispatcher is thinking, the dispatcher is simply asking a question

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03](Martin advances on Zimmerman, again no verbal communication is heard between participants) (If this is accurate, was Martin attempting to see if he knew the person who was watching him? Zimmerman continues to phsych himself up by creating a dangerous scenario. Zimmerman has a gun, so Zimmerman is looking for a weapon on Martin. There is no real indication that any weapon exists on Martin. For someone who is supposed to be a "watcher", how does Zimmerman miss the bottle of tea in Martin's hand or that Martin is on the phone? I suppose Martin could have been using an ear piece. I think I read that Martin's girlfriend mentioned an ear piece. Still, martin is talking to someone but Zimmerman never mentions this.)


THIS IS THE POINT THAT MARTIN COULD HAVE ENDED THE ENTIRE ENCOUNTER, all he had to do was to walk you to Zimmerman and POLITELY say "Hi, my name is Trayon Martin, My dad lives over there, can you tell me why your following me"

911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens. (So, Zimmerman can tell Martin's age and ethnicity, but cannot tell that Martin is talking to someone or that Martin is carrying a bottle of tea? It really sounds like Zimmerman is working himself up to a conflict.)

or he's being cautious, at one point Zimmerman said he did have his hand in his waist, remember it's dark and raining

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.

He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20](Martin continues to advance on Zimmerman) (Zimmerman builds up his suspicions even more dramatically. Is Marting still trying to figure out if he knows this person who has been watching him? If you saw someone in a vehicle watching you, would you be curious to know if you knew that person? Keep in mind that Martin has no idea about the suspicious person who is acting strange scenario that Zimmerman is creating in his mind. Martin is just walking home after buying snacks and talking to his girlfriend in the rain.)

so Zimmerman see's "something in his hand" If I saw someone watching me and I was worried, I would be calling the police, why didn't martin, again Martin could have ended the incident again

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK? (apparently, the dispatcher is concerned about Zimmerman's safety) (The dispatcher can only go on what Zimmerman is telling them.)

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else. (I'm not sure what "on the wire" means)

Zimmerman:

OK.

These aszholes. They always get away. (Zimmerman is really pumping himself up now.)

yep, it sounds like he's a little frustrated, so what, "pumping himself up" more supposition on your part

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39] (no racial slur is used at this point, after several burglaries in the area we can surmise Z means thief, but he could mean black person)


911 dispatcher:

OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

He’s running. [2:08] (Martin takes off, why? if he has a legal right to be where he is, why run AWAY) (Is this the point where Martin tells his girlfriend that someone is following him? Is this when Martin's girlfriend tells Martin to run? Did Martin decide to continue on home at this point to get away from this person who is stalking him? The evidence and timeline points to YES, Martin started to move to get away from Zimmerman.)


again there is no proof Martin was "running home", he did run towards the back entrance of the community as Zimmerman told the dispatcher

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14] (Evidence that MARTIN IS RUNNING AWAY FROM Zimmerman and he attempts to give chase) (Exactly. Martin is trying to get away from someone who is stalking him. According to Martin's girlfriend, at this point, Martin is scared and she is afraid for him.)


So why didn't Martin run TO SAFETY OF HIS FATHERS HOME, you admit he did run AWAY

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[I](this is the first and only time Zimmerman makes a racial slur) (Zimmerman really does not want Martin to escape out of the neighborhood. Zimmerman wanst to capture Martin. Zimmerman wants justice done for all of the things that Zimmerman has built up in his head that Martin must have done. At this point, Zimmerman is aggressively chasing down a Martin who is trying to get away from someone who has been stalking him in the rain.)

Pure, unadulterated conjecture on your part. maybe Zimmerman is trying to keep a location on Martin so he can direct the police to that location


(if you listen to the CNN version, this is the point CNN edits the tape)


911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25] (Zimmerman admits he is attempting to chase, Martin) (Once again, exactly. Zimmerman is not a neighborhood watch person, he is aggressively chasing down Martin. According to Martin's girlfriend, Marting told her he was not going to run but would walk away from this guy who has been stalking him. Now that Martin is trying to get out of the neighborhood, Zimmerman is chasing him down.)

and yet a 19 year old athlete out WALKED an over weight older guy, your kidding, How is it, even an over weight old guy could not catch up to a guy WALKING?

911 dispatcher:

OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26] (dispatcher tells Zimmerman to stop chasing Martin)

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28] (Zimmerman complies with dispatch and STOPS THE CHASE~~~Zimmerman IS NO LONGER THE AGGRESSOR) (REALLY! You really believe that at this point Zimmerman stopped following Martin, who was trying to get away from Zimmerman? There is no indication that Zimmerman ever stopped following Martin, none at all.)


Sure there is. Zimmerman is asthmatic, old over weight and on the audio version of the 911 call, Zimmerman is clearly out of breath

911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman: (Zimmerman has stopped the chase) (We do not know this. This is your assumption.)

yes we do know Zimmerman stopped, he maybe walking at this point but in the audio version, he is out of breath, but calming down

George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?

Zimmerman:


911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Zimmerman:
XXX

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:
Yeah.

911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

SO IF ZIMMERMAN IS STILL CHASING MARTIN, WHY IS HE STANDING IN A CUT THROUGH, ut-oooh there goes THAT theory

911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s XXX – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [3:40] (Zimmerman admits he has LOST TRACK OF MARTIN) (This contradicts your assumption that Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin. Zimmerman may have slowed down, but it sounds like he was still trying to keep track of Martin.)

stopped chasing is one thing, trying to relocate Martin is another. He maybe still looking for Martin, But he is obviously no longer chasing Martin


[I](*****at this point he has no idea where martin is and there is normal banter between Zimmerman and Dispatch*****)


911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49] (Why would Zimmerman have to tell the police where he was at if Zimmerman were actually going to go to the mailboxes rather then continue looking for Martin? Zimmerman was obviously still looking for Martin and did not know where he would be when the police arrived.)

maybe Zimmerman was headed to the mailboxes AND STILL LOOKING FOR MARTIN, naaa that would make sense, something you clearly don't want

911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.

Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?

911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. XXX

Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:
Thanks.

911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.

Call ends 4:07

==================================

Martin runs away, Zimmerman WHILE ON THE PHONE WITH DISPATCH lost track of Martins whereabouts, The question is, why did Martin come back (We have no indication whatsoever that Martin came back and every indication that Zimmerman never stopped following Martin.)
All I can say, Jeff, is that you are worse then any of the leftists I have heard when it comes to your interpretations of what Zimmerman said and what might have been actually happenning. I put my comments in blue to what you have posted.

There is no indication that Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin. If Martin's girlfriend's testimony is accurate, Zimmerman did continue going after Martin and Martin asked Zimmerman why is he following Martin. Rather then answer Martin, the girlfriend hears Zimmerman ask martin what he is doing there. At that point, the girlfriend hears a scuffle and the phone goes dead. If this testimony is accurate, and the timeline and the phone records all indicate that the timing was right for this point of contact to have occurred, then Zimmerman did approach Martin and confront Martin. Did Zimmerman at tha point push Martin because Zimmerman was so pumped up? Did Martin at that point push Zimmerman because he was afraid of this man who has been stalking him? Either way, Zimmerman is lying about how contact was made.

Where are the grass stains and wetness on Zimmerman's jacket at the police station? Where is there any evidence of Zimmerman's alleged broken nose? Where are the bruises and blood on Zimmerman from the alleged beating that Martin gave him? Was the head injury or bloody nose not bad enough to have bled on Zimmerman's jacket?

Where is Martin's cell phone? Why did the police not redial the last call made by Martin? Where are the marks on Martin's hands indicating he had just beat Zimmerman? Are there powder burns on Martin's clothes, indicating a close range shooting or did Zimmerman shoot Martin from a relatively safe distance?

No, Jeff, you are the one who is making stuff up here. You are the one who is completely ignoring real evidence and only taking what Zimmerman is claiming as exactly what happened. As the evidence trickles out, it also appears that there has been a cover up of crucial evidence and with no mention of Martin's cell phone, no police interest in Martin's girlfriend's testimony and no claims of powder burns on Martin's clothes.

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!! you and the media have all ready convicted Zimmerman. AND YOUR THE ONE MAKING CRAP UP. You keep trying to tell us what Zimmerman was thinking when it's obvious you have no evidence other than what the media wants you to hear and your swallowing ever word

I am now done with this nonsense. You clearly want Zimmerman to be an evil monster that wants to kill people and your NEED Martin to be a Saint.

You and the media clearly want a race war. the media is promoting the black agenda of hatred.

What are you going to do IF the special prosecutor decides there is not enough evidence to support Zimmermans arrest?

ya know what, Im going to wait for the Grand Jury report. If they find that Zimmerman was wrong and did in fact commit murder, I hope they fry Zimmerman, but until that verdict come down, Im done with this

by-by:putergreet:

[RoBoTeq]

[QUOTE=RoBoTeq;12854881]

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!! you and the media have all ready convicted Zimmerman. AND YOUR THE ONE MAKING CRAP UP. You keep trying to tell us what Zimmerman was thinking when it's obvious you have no evidence other than what the media wants you to hear and your swallowing ever word

I am now done with this nonsense. You clearly want Zimmerman to be an evil monster that wants to kill people and your NEED Martin to be a Saint.

You and the media clearly want a race war. the media is promoting the black agenda of hatred.

What are you going to do IF the special prosecutor decides there is not enough evidence to support Zimmermans arrest?

ya know what, Im going to wait for the Grand Jury report. If they find that Zimmerman was wrong and did in fact commit murder, I hope they fry Zimmerman, but until that verdict come down, Im done with this

by-by:putergreet:
If....this actually goes to trial, which it should have been set to do from day one, and if all of the evidence is allowed to be presented, then I will accept whatever the verdict is.

You are wrong about continuing to claim that I am stating that Zimmerman is guilty. I am stating that according to the evidence at hand that Zimmerman is not telling the truth in several of his statements. I am stating that the justice system did not properly do their job because basic criminal investigation aspects were not adhered to. I am stating that due to Zimmerman's past record of being accused of aggrevated assault only to be represented by his judge father that there is evidence that Zimmerman's father is someone who is willing to interfere with the law in order to protect his son.

It's not that Martin did not get a fair trial. Martin was never given the chance to even have a trial.

Zimmerman did everything wrong for someone who is on a neighborhood watch. He carried a gun and he followed people he felt were suspicious. We still don't even know in what capacity Zimmerman was even living in this community. We know that Zimmerman's name is not on the house he lives in, but we don't know if Zimmerman lives there with someone or why Zimmerman is even living in this neighborhood.

I can relate to Martin, and I have known too many people like Zimmerman. My guess is that you have as well. I don't see you being the kind of guy to let someone follow you around without wanting to know why.

[stonefly]

zimmermans brother stated in an interveiw that his brother was out of breath. on a tv special on this case last night they put up a diagram of the apt. complex. the boy nearly made it to his fathers apt. and zimmerman persued him deep into the complex making turns he could not have made exept by having his victim in sight.

[printer2]

zimmermans brother stated in an interveiw that his brother was out of breath. on a tv special on this case last night they put up a diagram of the apt. complex. the boy nearly made it to his fathers apt. and zimmerman persued him deep into the complex making turns he could not have made exept by having his victim in sight.

Must be terrifying being followed late at night by a guy with a gun. Well at least one that is not a cop.

[RoBoTeq]

Must be terrifying being followed late at night by a guy with a gun. Well at least one that is not a cop.
I wouldn't be comfortable with either.

[RoBoTeq]

A couple more tidbits about this killing that may not have come up;

Two different, independent voice forensic experts state that the voice on the 911 call that is heard screaming for help is definitely "NOT" Zimmerman; http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/201204022_forensic_experts_say_its_not_george_zimm erman_crying_out_for_help_in_911_call/

Also, I know it has come up, but to clarify, Martin was staying with his dad's girlfriend who "DID" live in the gated community where Martin was killed. Martin was killed within 100 yards of where he was staying and the path he took from the 7-11 to where he was staying was a direct route.

[jmac00]

I agree with David Kopel wholeheartedly:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/2/debunking-the-stand-your-ground-myth/


The relevant Florida law is that a law enforcement agency “may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful” (Florida Statutes Section 776.032). This simply restates the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which, by its express language, forbids arrests without probable cause.

A grand jury will eventually report its determination about whether Mr. Zimmerman’s actions should result in a criminal prosecution. Professional demagogues and racists, such as Al Sharpton, may try to prejudge the grand jury’s investigation, but responsible citizens should not.

In the meantime, it’s time for Mr. Sharpton and others to stop their false claims that Florida’s self-defense laws are unusual, or that there is anything in those laws that prevents justice from being done in the Zimmerman case.

I think this pretty much sums up the issue at this time

[coolwhip]

A couple more tidbits about this killing that may not have come up;

Two different, independent voice forensic experts state that the voice on the 911 call that is heard screaming for help is definitely "NOT" Zimmerman; http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/south/view/201204022_forensic_experts_say_its_not_george_zimm erman_crying_out_for_help_in_911_call/

Also, I know it has come up, but to clarify, Martin was staying with his dad's girlfriend who "DID" live in the gated community where Martin was killed. Martin was killed within 100 yards of where he was staying and the path he took from the 7-11 to where he was staying was a direct route.

Then he should have walked strait home and not loitered to case out the condos lookin for a 5 finger discount. I think the young man was a smart mouth punkass gangbanger wannabee lookin for trouble and found it. In fact, I would wager this!

YO!...Now back to my bag of skittles

[stonefly]

Then he should have walked strait home and not loitered to case out the condos lookin for a 5 finger discount. I think the young man was a smart mouth punkass gangbanger wannabee lookin for trouble and found it. In fact, I would wager this!

YO!...Now back to my bag of skittles

well that pretty much goes without saying. the question is do i live in a country where you can be legally killed for it?

[RoBoTeq]

I agree with David Kopel wholeheartedly:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/2/debunking-the-stand-your-ground-myth/



I think this pretty much sums up the issue at this time
Those laws in Florida were passed by Democrats as well as Republicans. There was no major Democrat resistance to any of the laws that these idiots are trying to claim are the cause of Martin's death.

[RoBoTeq]

Then he should have walked strait home and not loitered to case out the condos lookin for a 5 finger discount. I think the young man was a smart mouth punkass gangbanger wannabee lookin for trouble and found it. In fact, I would wager this!

YO!...Now back to my bag of skittles
Maybe you should get a clue as to what you are talking about before opening your virtual mouth and proving what a putz you are.....:whistle:

Martin was stopped under the canopy of the clubhouse and not near the houses. He was keeping out of the rain to talk to his girlfriend. WOW! He should be shot and killed for talking to his girlfriend while standing under a canopy of a public building in a community where he was staying with someone who lived in that community.

Sometimes I wonder about you coolio. You sure you don't have lifetime memberships in certain pale faced organizations?

[coolwhip]

Well, if he is anything like the lil brothers around the Detroit metro area, then he was up to no good.

I didn't know him, so all I can do is compare him with what I see in the D.

Now where did I put my hoodie?:whistle:

[BACnet]

We know that he was a burglar, we know that the neighborhood had recently been burglarized quite a bit. We also know that he was unarmed and yet he picked a fight with a guy carrying a gun.

The rest of the details will have to come out over time.

[RoBoTeq]

Now where did I put my hoodie?:whistle:
I think I found it for you
.
.
.
http://www.blackstrikes.com/resources/artwork/kkk_hood_o2.jpg

[RoBoTeq]

We know that he was a burglar, we know that the neighborhood had recently been burglarized quite a bit. We also know that he was unarmed and yet he picked a fight with a guy carrying a gun.

The rest of the details will have to come out over time.

We don't "know" any of what you are claiming. He had jewelry in his backpack that was never claimed by anyone. While the indications are that he probably lifted that jewelry from somewhere, there has been nothing connecting Martin with any burglary.


What does the neighborhood being burglarized have to do with Martin? The jewelry in his knapsack was found before Martin was even staying in this neighborhood. For all we know, Zimmerman has been burglarizing the neighborhood and trying to pin it on all of the Black guys he has called 911 about over time.


He was indeed unarmed, but what in the world makes you believe that Martin picked a fight with Zimmerman? Only Zimmerman has made this claim. The time spans and the location of the killing do not coincide with anything that Zimmerman claims happened. Also, Martin's girlfriend is telling a story that puts Zimmerman coming at Martin, moments before Martin is killed.

Where do you get this stuff?

[coolwhip]

I think I found it for you
.
.
.
http://www.blackstrikes.com/resources/artwork/kkk_hood_o2.jpg


The original boys in da hood huh?:grin2::cheers:

Robo, you are just as bad as any libtard I have ever met. If someone doesn't agree with your thoughts you piss and moan like a baby and accuse them of being a bigot or racist.

You need to sever that chord that connects your arss to your brain so you quit talkin sheit.

BTW, that hood you posted belonged to a Christian organization...you know, one that your so proud to be part of.

[RoBoTeq]

Here's an enhanced tape of Zimmerman at the police station. Note that the "welts" on Zimmerman's head are up high, in a place where Zimmerman would nearly have had to been upside down to receive from the ground. Anyone want to take a wager that Zimmerman, in a panic over having just killed someone, smacked himself in the head with the gun butt or something laying around?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-case-surveillance-tape-clues-16058407?tab=9482931&section=1206833

[jmac00]

We know that he was a burglar, we know that the neighborhood had recently been burglarized quite a bit. We also know that he was unarmed and yet he picked a fight with a guy carrying a gun.

The rest of the details will have to come out over time.

we don't know anything of the sort, we only know that the area HAD BEEN burglarized in the past.

There is no indication that Martin knew Zimmerman was armed.

If you knew someone was armed, would you attack that person? If you knew someone was armed, why wouldn't you call police.

The rest of the details will come out sometime after after April 10th. April 10th is when the Grand Jury convenes.

[jmac00]

Here's an enhanced tape of Zimmerman at the police station. Note that the "welts" on Zimmerman's head are up high, in a place where Zimmerman would nearly have had to been upside down to receive from the ground. Anyone want to take a wager that Zimmerman, in a panic over having just killed someone, smacked himself in the head with the gun butt or something laying around?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-case-surveillance-tape-clues-16058407?tab=9482931&section=1206833

ooohh come oooonnnnnn, really Robin. Just admit you WANT ZIMMERMAN convicted of *something*

gezzzz, :whistle:

[RoBoTeq]

ooohh come oooonnnnnn, really Robin. Just admit you WANT ZIMMERMAN convicted of *something*

gezzzz, :whistle:
I do want Zimmerman brought to trial. If he is found innocent, then I will be satisfied. If he is a time bomb of aggression, which he seems to be, his getting away with murder just means he is going to be even more brazen the next time he wants to be authoritive.


Yes, my gut tells me that Zimmerman was out for an adrenaline rush that night and something went really wrong. My gut tells me that Zimmerman approached Martin with gun drawn, Martin freaked out and started screaming for help and Zimmerman accidentally pulled the trigger. If what I think may have happened, there will be no powder burns or residue on Martin's clothing. Why else would the police be withholding the autopsy report unless it is incriminating for them?

[jmac00]

I do want Zimmerman brought to trial. If he is found innocent, then I will be satisfied. If he is a time bomb of aggression, which he seems to be, his getting away with murder just means he is going to be even more brazen the next time he wants to be authoritive.


Yes, my gut tells me that Zimmerman was out for an adrenaline rush that night and something went really wrong. My gut tells me that Zimmerman approached Martin with gun drawn, Martin freaked out and started screaming for help and Zimmerman accidentally pulled the trigger. If what I think may have happened, there will be no powder burns or residue on Martin's clothing. Why else would the police be withholding the autopsy report unless it is incriminating for them?

really? your gut? I think in this case, you probably have indigestion.

You keep saying "your gut" and "you think", yet when someone challenges you on these "feelings" you pronounce them as fact when know one knows what the hell happened.

Stop injecting supposition and conjecture and Let the Grand Jury do it's job. If in fact the Grand Jury decides Zimmerman was wrong, there will be a trail. If not and the Grand Jury says Zimmerman had a right to self defense, then we will have rioting (this is something I would almost bet on)

[RoBoTeq]

really? your gut? I think in this case, you probably have indigestion.

You keep saying "your gut" and "you think", yet when someone challenges you on these "feelings" you pronounce them as fact when know one knows what the hell happened.

Stop injecting supposition and conjecture and Let the Grand Jury do it's job. If in fact the Grand Jury decides Zimmerman was wrong, there will be a trail. If not and the Grand Jury says Zimmerman had a right to self defense, then we will have rioting (this is something I would almost bet on)
Listen up, pudgy, I have already stated that I just want Zimmerman brought to trial. I also stated quite clearly that my thoughts were just that....my thoughts. I have made it clear that if Zimmerman is brought to trial and decided to be innocent, I will accept that justice was done. So back off, and put your twin shooters back in your holsters before you hurt yourself...:grin2:

[jmac00]

Listen up, pudgy, I have already stated that I just want Zimmerman brought to trial. I also stated quite clearly that my thoughts were just that....my thoughts. I have made it clear that if Zimmerman is brought to trial and decided to be innocent, I will accept that justice was done. So back off, and put your twin shooters back in your holsters before you hurt yourself...:grin2:

you spelled fat wrong

[WebCTRL]

Listen up, pudgy, I have already stated that I just want Zimmerman brought to trial. I also stated quite clearly that my thoughts were just that....my thoughts. I have made it clear that if Zimmerman is brought to trial and decided to be innocent, I will accept that justice was done. So back off, and put your twin shooters back in your holsters before you hurt yourself...:grin2:

Robo, you keep making unsubstantiated statements about Zimmerman and rail on anyone who does the same about Martin. From the outside, one would think you were related to Martin, I mean you seem to be on his side with that level of passion. I would not allow you on the jury as a defense lawyer but I bet Martin's family would love to see you on the Grand Jury. Just sayin, it seems that you are blatanly biased without objectivity in your arguments on this issue. For me, I'll wait for the real truth to come out. Way too many lies, distortion and propoganda at this point.

[jmac00]

Robo, you keep making unsubstantiated statements about Zimmerman and rail on anyone who does the same about Martin. From the outside, one would think you were related to Martin, I mean you seem to be on his side with that level of passion. I would not allow you on the jury as a defense lawyer but I bet Martin's family would love to see you on the Grand Jury. Just sayin, it seems that you are blatanly biased without objectivity in your arguments on this issue. For me, I'll wait for the real truth to come out. Way too many lies, distortion and propoganda at this point.

I would agree with this statement :angel:

[glennac]

Just don't understand what is all the fuss about outside of the committed Black anti White civil rights movement. Sounds like to me that Zimmerman did the community a favor.

In fight for his life if not physical well being he shot and killed a gang banger who had obviously stolen Jewry in his back pack. Martin was in trouble for marijuana possession, struck a bus driver and had attitude big time.

His recent pictures shows Martin for what he was and that is of a hood. That is my opinion and no one is going to change there mind outside of real evidence so don't waste your breath trying to make a choir boy out of a hood in a hoodie. Thank you, thank you very much

[jmac00]

Just don't understand what is all the fuss about outside of the committed Black anti White civil rights movement. Sounds like to me that Zimmerman did the community a favor.

In fight for his life if not physical well being he shot and killed a gang banger who had obviously stolen Jewry in his back pack. Martin was in trouble for marijuana possession, struck a bus driver and had attitude big time.

His recent pictures shows Martin for what he was and that is of a hood. That is my opinion and no one is going to change there mind outside of real evidence so don't waste your breath trying to make a choir boy out of a hood in a hoodie. Thank you, thank you very much

gezzz, not you to. Stop making supposition and conjecture. We do not know if Martin was in a gang, we do not know where any jewelry came from. At some point in the past Zimmerman struck a LEO for cry'n-out-loud. sheesh

[Gib's Son]

If not and the Grand Jury says Zimmerman had a right to self defense, then we will have rioting (this is something I would almost bet on)

:yes:

[jmac00]

:yes:


then we will have rioting (this is something I would almost bet on)

honestly, this has me very concerned :patriot:

[Gib's Son]

honestly, this has me very concerned :patriot:

Me too; not sure I have enough rounds.:gah: Can always train the wife how to use the Dillon though.:grin2:

[jmac00]

Me too; not sure I have enough rounds.:gah: Can always train the wife how to use the Dillon though.:grin2:

ya, I have been cranking out 40cal and 30-30 rounds like crazy lately. the only thing I will let my wife handle (besides the obvious :grin2:) is the 12ga coach gun, she just has to point that in any direction....as long as Im behind her? :cheers:

[glennac]

gezzz, not you to. Stop making supposition and conjecture. We do not know if Martin was in a gang, we do not know where any jewelry came from. At some point in the past Zimmerman struck a LEO for cry'n-out-loud. sheesh

Gees jmac I didn't realize you were so ate up with PC. Defend Martin in spite of the witnesses and what the police know. Just go with the media flow and outspoken folks who are blaming Zimmerman and his dad with no evidence other than their biased opinions.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion just like mine and just like you said I say back at you "for crying out loud sheesh". Thank you, thank you very much

[jmac00]

Gees jmac I didn't realize you were so ate up with PC. Defend Martin in spite of the witnesses and what the police know. Just go with the media flow and outspoken folks who are blaming Zimmerman and his dad with no evidence other than their biased opinions.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion just like mine and just like you said I say back at you "for crying out loud sheesh". Thank you, thank you very much

if you have a couple hours, go back and read the entire thread. I am actually giving Zimmerman the benefit-of-the-doubt.

But Im not entirely convinced Zimmerman can be held harmless in the entire mess.

So as I stated MANY posts a go, I'll wait til the Grand Jury investigation to conclude and publish there findings before I make a final decision.

I may not even like the results of the Grand Jury, but if they say Zimmerman was reckless and he should be charged with a crime, so be it. If they find Zimmerman was justified, stand-by for Rodney King type "party" and a lot of property damage

[RoBoTeq]

you spelled fat wrong
I'm trying to avoid using the term "obese" for myself. If I'm just "fat", then you must be "pudgy".

[RoBoTeq]

Robo, you keep making unsubstantiated statements about Zimmerman and rail on anyone who does the same about Martin. From the outside, one would think you were related to Martin, I mean you seem to be on his side with that level of passion. I would not allow you on the jury as a defense lawyer but I bet Martin's family would love to see you on the Grand Jury. Just sayin, it seems that you are blatanly biased without objectivity in your arguments on this issue. For me, I'll wait for the real truth to come out. Way too many lies, distortion and propoganda at this point.
Post one unsubstantiated statement I have made about Zimmerman that I have not stated was my opinion....YOU CANNOT!

Show one thing that I have defended Martin for that is a fact and not someone else's opion.....YOU CANNOT!

The only reason for my bias is that Zimmerman is being protected by the legal system in which his father is part of. All I want is for Zimmerman to be brought to trial so it can be legally determined in a court of law with all evidences available whether or not Zimmerman should have killed Martin as he did.

Yes, I can relate to Martin. Yes, I have known and not cared for people like Zimmerman who want to be in authority but are not qualified to do so. Still, these are opinionated feelings, which I have been up front about everything that is my opinion and what is actual fact.

I am the only one here who is not playing games with manipulations. I state what is fact and I state what is my perception. How about you do the saem for a change?

[RoBoTeq]

I would agree with this statement :angel:
Then I challenge you as well to show where I have stated as fact anything that is not fact or where I have not stated where an opinion is only an opinion.

[RoBoTeq]

Just don't understand what is all the fuss about outside of the committed Black anti White civil rights movement. Sounds like to me that Zimmerman did the community a favor.

In fight for his life if not physical well being he shot and killed a gang banger who had obviously stolen Jewry in his back pack. Martin was in trouble for marijuana possession, struck a bus driver and had attitude big time.

His recent pictures shows Martin for what he was and that is of a hood. That is my opinion and no one is going to change there mind outside of real evidence so don't waste your breath trying to make a choir boy out of a hood in a hoodie. Thank you, thank you very much
Wow! And you really wonder why people say you are a racist? Unbelievable.

[RoBoTeq]

Gees jmac I didn't realize you were so ate up with PC. Defend Martin in spite of the witnesses and what the police know. Just go with the media flow and outspoken folks who are blaming Zimmerman and his dad with no evidence other than their biased opinions.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion just like mine and just like you said I say back at you "for crying out loud sheesh". Thank you, thank you very much
Educate yourself, Glenn. The police wanted to charge Zimmerman because they did not believe his story at the scene.

There are two forensic experts saying that Zimmerman is not the one screaming for help on the 911 tapes. Hence, Zimmerman is a liar.

There is no blood, grass or even wet spots on Zimmerman's jacket, head of face 40 minutes after Zimmerman claimed to have a broken nose and been beaten half to death by Martin. Again, Zimmerman is lying.

All physical evidence has Zimmerman approaching Martin and not Martin chasing after Zimmerman. Hence, Zimmerman is lying.

The funeral director has gone on record as having seen no signs that Martin had used his fists or in any way had a physical altercation with anyone prior to his being killed.

There is absolutley no physical evidence supporting Zimmerman's claims.

And you make a statement that Zimmerman did the community a favor by killing a young man who did nothing more that night then buy candy, drink a tea and talk to his girlfriend in the rain while walking back to where he was staying in the very community he was killed in?

[glennac]

Wow! And you really wonder why people say you are a racist? Unbelievable.

There you go again robo using names instead of arguing your points. What in my posts makes me sound like a racist? Not PC yes and mad at the media coverage of the whole thing yes. I have in the past said Zimmerman should have stayed in the car but has far as I can see the big deal is Martin attacking Zimmerman.

Perhaps if you weren't such a hoodie yourself back in your younger days you wouldn't be identifying with Martin so much. I mean being a hippie with attitude and challenging authority got folks into trouble especially back in those days down here where we had more respect for the law. Lighten up and stop the 24 / 7 attack on Zimmerman and let the law take its course. Bad choices were made here and in my opinion Martin made the worse one. Thank you, thank you very much

[jmac00]

There you go again robo using names instead of arguing your points. What in my posts makes me sound like a racist? Not PC yes and mad at the media coverage of the whole thing yes. I have in the past said Zimmerman should have stayed in the car but has far as I can see the big deal is Martin attacking Zimmerman.

Perhaps if you weren't such a hoodie yourself back in your younger days you wouldn't be identifying with Martin so much. I mean being a hippie with attitude and challenging authority got folks into trouble especially back in those days down here where we had more respect for the law. Lighten up and stop the 24 / 7 attack on Zimmerman and let the law take its course. Bad choices were made here and in my opinion Martin made the worse one. Thank you, thank you very much

hehehe, well, pretty much all of it? did you NOT assert he was in a gang? he wheres a hoodie ?I believe you also said he deserved to die (can't really remember) your obvious implication is.....

comeon, :whistle::toetap:

[RoBoTeq]

There you go again robo using names instead of arguing your points. What in my posts makes me sound like a racist? Not PC yes and mad at the media coverage of the whole thing yes. I have in the past said Zimmerman should have stayed in the car but has far as I can see the big deal is Martin attacking Zimmerman.

Perhaps if you weren't such a hoodie yourself back in your younger days you wouldn't be identifying with Martin so much. I mean being a hippie with attitude and challenging authority got folks into trouble especially back in those days down here where we had more respect for the law. Lighten up and stop the 24 / 7 attack on Zimmerman and let the law take its course. Bad choices were made here and in my opinion Martin made the worse one. Thank you, thank you very much
Glenn, by making the off the wall comments about Martin, a 17 year old who just like you and I at 17, is trying to figure out where he fits in life. Your commentary about Zimmerman doing the community a favor by killing Martin because you have decided, without any factual basis, that Martin is just another Black troublemaking thief. Every one of your comments about Martin was prejudicial.

Yes, I was a rowdy and sometimes troublesome youth....and so were you! Many of us here were no better and some of us much worse the the worst that the media can attempt to make Martin seem to be. None of this matters. There is no excuse for Martin being dead right now.

What you are sounding like in your posts is that Zimmerman should just go ahead and kill any Black teens who look to him like hoods who have the audacity to stay in a home in his community.

There is no physical evidence to support any of what Zimmerman claimed in his initial questioning by police or in any of what Zimmerman's daddy, or daddy's friends are claiming about what happened that night.

Two police on the scene wanted Zimmerman to be charged with crimes. Why did the DA's office, an office that Zimmerman's retired judge daddy is known by, not allow the officers to submit the arrest charges?

All I want is for Zimmerman to have a fair trial so that Martin can also be determined deserving of being killed or not.

[coolwhip]

Statistically speaking Glenn may be correct in the fact that Zimmerman may have saved the tax payers of Fla. millions of dollars by taking out a future career criminal.

Statistically speaking that is.:whistle:

[jmac00]

Statistically speaking Glenn may be correct in the fact that Zimmerman may have saved the tax payers of Fla. millions of dollars by taking out a future career criminal.

Statistically speaking that is.:whistle:

NOW!! This is turning into a race thing. STOP IT.

we enough crap with Sharpton and the Black Panthers stirring up :censored: without you two guy adding to the problem?

unfreakingbelievable :gah:

[WebCTRL]

Post one unsubstantiated statement I have made about Zimmerman that I have not stated was my opinion....YOU CANNOT!?

Hmmh, Here are a few tidbits of yours:

#22 Your statements about what Martin did:
• Zimmerman approaches Martin with his gun drawn, after being told
by 911 operator not to continue persuing Martin.
• Martin freaks out over having someone come at him with a gun and
attacks Zimmerman in an attempt to get the gun away from him.
# ?? The initial problem with this incident is that the justice system did not take the very first steps in properly handling this case. There is no reason that Zimmerman was not arrested for formal questioning and charges.

#48 And why are we not hearing from George Zimmerman? WHY?! Because his father is a retired judge who is orchestrating a legal front to protect him....THAT'S WHY!

I just love Zimmerman's attorney stating that more 911 tapes and more eyewitness's and more evidence is going to show up in defense of Zimmerman. WHEN? When Zimmerman's judge father figures out a way to have it all fabricated....that's when.

#63 Zimmerman's father does not want Zimmerman to have to take any responsibility for this incident.
This whole thing reaks of a coverup by Zimmerman's father and his influence on the so called "justice system".

#65 In the meantime, Martin is still dead and Zimmerman is still an irresponsible, crybaby jerk who is 100% responsible for the entire incident that caused Martins being killed.

#83 Zimmerman did not even go to a hospital, so he did not have a broken nose.

I see the biggest problem with this incident, other then the fact that a boy who has not been shown to have done anything illegal was shot dead, is that the police did not do a proper job of investigating this incident.

The police knew from the 911 call that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin and that Zimmerman killed Martin within minutes of being advised by a 911 operator to not pursue Martin. (not exactly what was said by dispatcher)

#99 There is no proof that Martin went after Zimmerman. There is proof that Zimmerman went after Martin.

#178 The more that factual information is coming out about Zimmerman, all of which was deliberately attempted to be avoided by the "justice" system, the more we see why it is a good thing that Martin's killing was not just allowed to be whitewashed by the DA's office.

So far, physical evidence does not support anything that Zimmerman has claimed occurred....NOT ONE THING!

#197 You really sound like you only want to hear one side of this story and are willing to believe Zimmerman, no matter how much physical evidence does not support his claims.

#199 Zimmerman is ramping himself up over obsessing on Martin.

Martin was not walking around the area near the houses.

At this point, Zimmerman is aggressively chasing down a Martin who is trying to get away from someone who has been stalking him in the rain.

Zimmerman is not a neighborhood watch person, he is aggressively chasing down Martin.

Now that Martin is trying to get out of the neighborhood, Zimmerman is chasing him down.

We have no indication whatsoever that Martin came back and every indication that Zimmerman never stopped following Martin.



Show one thing that I have defended Martin for that is a fact and not someone else's opion.....YOU CANNOT!?


You jumped on BAC and someone else about this but I'm not going back again.


The only reason for my bias is that Zimmerman is being protected by the legal system in which his father is part of. ?

OK, at least you admit the bias now.


All I want is for Zimmerman to be brought to trial so it can be legally determined in a court of law with all evidences available whether or not Zimmerman should have killed Martin as he did.

Yes, I can relate to Martin. Yes, I have known and not cared for people like Zimmerman who want to be in authority but are not qualified to do so. Still, these are opinionated feelings, which I have been up front about everything that is my opinion and what is actual fact.

I am the only one here who is not playing games with manipulations. I state what is fact and I state what is my perception. How about you do the saem for a change?

Hey pot, I'm not the kettle here. I have not manipulated anything about these 2. If you remember, I was the one who said I'd wait. My response to you much earlier was that both are responsible. Show me where I manipulated facts, if I did, my bad, but I don't think I did.

[pbharvey]

Who needs the legal system when the CBC knows what really happened?

Congressional Resolution Determines Cause of Death (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution)

[glennac]

NOW!! This is turning into a race thing. STOP IT.
we enough crap with Sharpton and the Black Panthers stirring up :censored: without you two guy adding to the problem?
unfreakingbelievable :gah:

Funny jamc you are not only a spinmister but apparently the heavy mod on this forum also. For openers I said Zimmerman might have have done the community a favor for taking Martin out which could very well be the case and cool basically said the same thing.

Now you are telling us to stop expressing our opinions on this forum because you don't like it and implying we are like the Black Panthers wanting Zimmerman's head.

I was right when I said you had a real bad case of political correctness. Just my :.02: Gees what next. Thank you, thank you very much

[glennac]

...........................
All I want is for Zimmerman to have a fair trial so that Martin can also be determined deserving of being killed or not.

Well this we can all agree on that robo provided of course there is enough evidence to arrest him and bring him to trial. That is all I'm interested in and that is Justice which is not to say to bow over to the lynch mob of radicals who want Zimmerman's head:.02::grin2:. Thank you, thank you very much

[RoBoTeq]

Statistically speaking Glenn may be correct in the fact that Zimmerman may have saved the tax payers of Fla. millions of dollars by taking out a future career criminal.

Statistically speaking that is.:whistle:
With this mindset, I suppose you feel it would be better if we just took out all of "them".....:censored:

[RoBoTeq]

Hmmh, Here are a few tidbits of yours:

#22 Your statements about what Martin did:
• Zimmerman approaches Martin with his gun drawn, after being told
by 911 operator not to continue persuing Martin.
• Martin freaks out over having someone come at him with a gun and
attacks Zimmerman in an attempt to get the gun away from him. These statements were stated as a possible scenario. You are flat out lying to be deceitful.

# ?? The initial problem with this incident is that the justice system did not take the very first steps in properly handling this case. There is no reason that Zimmerman was not arrested for formal questioning and charges.
This is a fact. Two different police agencies, the local police and a detective on the scene wanted to file charges against Zimmerman but were not allowed to do so by the DA's office.

#48 And why are we not hearing from George Zimmerman? WHY?! Because his father is a retired judge who is orchestrating a legal front to protect him....THAT'S WHY!
I just love Zimmerman's attorney stating that more 911 tapes and more eyewitness's and more evidence is going to show up in defense of Zimmerman. WHEN? When Zimmerman's judge father figures out a way to have it all fabricated....that's when.

#63 Zimmerman's father does not want Zimmerman to have to take any responsibility for this incident.
This whole thing reaks of a coverup by Zimmerman's father and his influence on the so called "justice system".

Strictly opinion, and never stated as anything but. You continue to deceive.

#65 In the meantime, Martin is still dead and Zimmerman is still an irresponsible, crybaby jerk who is 100% responsible for the entire incident that caused Martins being killed.
Half fact, half opinion, and never stated as anything but. You continue to deceive.


#83 Zimmerman did not even go to a hospital, so he did not have a broken nose.
Documented Fact.


I see the biggest problem with this incident, other then the fact that a boy who has not been shown to have done anything illegal was shot dead, is that the police did not do a proper job of investigating this incident.
Strictly opinion, and never stated as anything but. What part of "I see" did you not understand? You continue to deceive.


The police knew from the 911 call that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin and that Zimmerman killed Martin within minutes of being advised by a 911 operator to not pursue Martin. (not exactly what was said by dispatcher)
Documented fact.


#99 There is no proof that Martin went after Zimmerman. There is proof that Zimmerman went after Martin.

Documented fact.

#178 The more that factual information is coming out about Zimmerman, all of which was deliberately attempted to be avoided by the "justice" system, the more we see why it is a good thing that Martin's killing was not just allowed to be whitewashed by the DA's office.
Strictly my opinion based on Documented fact. Since I am cannot see into the future any more then anyone else can, this is very obviously my opinion of what is going to occur.


So far, physical evidence does not support anything that Zimmerman has claimed occurred....NOT ONE THING!
Documented fact.


#197 You really sound like you only want to hear one side of this story and are willing to believe Zimmerman, no matter how much physical evidence does not support his claims.

#199 Zimmerman is ramping himself up over obsessing on Martin.
"YOU REALLY SOUND LIKE......obviously my opininion. Do you even understand the difference between a persons opinion and when a person states fact?


Martin was not walking around the area near the houses.
Documented fact by Zimmerman's own accounting on the 911 tape. Zimmerman let the 911 operator assume that Martin was near the houses even though Zimmerman had already stated that Martin was at the clubhouse. Martin's girlfriend's testimony also puts Martin at the clubhouse, under an awning to keep out of the rain.


At this point, Zimmerman is aggressively chasing down a Martin who is trying to get away from someone who has been stalking him in the rain.
Documented fact, denied only by Zimmerman but supported by the physical evidence and timing of the attack.


Zimmerman is not a neighborhood watch person, he is aggressively chasing down Martin.
Documented fact. A neighborhood "watch person" would by definition of "watch" not have come into contact with Martin, outside of and away from his vehicle.


Now that Martin is trying to get out of the neighborhood, Zimmerman is chasing him down.
Documented fact with an error on my part. Martin was not trying to get "out" of the neighborhood because Martin was staying with someone who lives "IN" the neighborhood. Martin was only about 100 yards from his father's girlfriends house when he was shot and killed.


We have no indication whatsoever that Martin came back and every indication that Zimmerman never stopped following Martin.

Documented fact.

OK, I have to ask; are you really not able to understand the written word?
I clearly stated;

Post one unsubstantiated statement I have made about Zimmerman that I have not stated was my opinion....YOU CANNOT!?
Which you even quoted. Do you not understand the difference between unsubstantiated and opinion? Everything you posted from me was either completely substantiated on the post that you only copied my comment or was clearly an opinion.

Is English your first language? You just "substantiated" exactly what I stated.

[RoBoTeq]

Who needs the legal system when the CBC knows what really happened?

Congressional Resolution Determines Cause of Death (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution)
The CBC needs to be reheadquartered in the CDC....preferably an area of strict quarantine.

[WebCTRL]

[QUOTE]These statements were stated as a possible scenario. You are flat out lying to be deceitful.

Here was your challenge to me. "Post one unsubstantiated statement I have made about Zimmerman that I have not stated was my opinion....YOU CANNOT!"

Now, I wasn't trying to be deceitful, but alone in this one, you did not state is was your opinion, it may be, but as your challenge says, you did not state this. Was/is no reason for deceit, you are the one with bias, not me. As you have even admitted in a recent post. That was my whole point, that, and your bias was clouding your judgement when people showed bias in the opposite direction.



This is a fact. Two different police agencies, the local police and a detective on the scene wanted to file charges against Zimmerman but were not allowed to do so by the DA's office.

Now you just stated it was a fact. The DA says it is not and that after detaining Z, that is was a proper non-arrest and there was not sufficient evidence to support the arrest (at that time). So just to the second line, your fact is not my fact or the DA's fact, so I guess I'll have to chalk this one up to an unsubstantiated fact.


Strictly opinion, and never stated as anything but. You continue to deceive.
Ok, you say opinion, I say that you were making accusations and not "stating" it as opinion. Remember your challenge said that you stated it as opinion, which you did not.


Half fact, half opinion, and never stated as anything but. You continue to deceive.

OK. I get the game now, anything you want to be a fact, is, and anything that you want to be an opinion, is just that, whether stated as opinion or just made as accusation from your point of view only. OK, well I guess all are your opinions, just not stated as such until you are called on it.


Documented Fact.

OK, now this was from #83, so tell me Robo where is it documented that his nose was not broken? I have looked for that documentation everywhere and I can not substantiate that fact. So I can not even give you this one on the merits I did above (that it was opinion just not stated so).


Strictly opinion, and never stated as anything but. What part of "I see" did you not understand? You continue to deceive.

Yeah, you are right on this, its opinion, but you mixed opinion with something as stated fact, which is and, well, your right here. No intent to decieve, just answering your challenge, and on this one, I'm wrong, I should not have included it.


Documented fact. refrencing your following quote, "The police knew from the 911 call that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin and that Zimmerman killed Martin within minutes of being advised by a 911 operator to not pursue Martin."

This was also from #83. You say documented fact, I say unsubstantiated because the dispatcher did not advise Z not to pursue him, it was you don't have to do that. The dispatcher didn't advise him not to purse him, so it wasn't that he was doing something he was told not to do. We also do not "know" that he pursued him, unless by walking around the clubhouse to look if he was hiding or trying to keep him within view. I mean from the 911 tape we can't know if he pursued him, we may infer that. I think we need an eyewitness to determine if the actual pursuit happened. And, I'm not saying id did or didn't, I don't know.


Documented fact. From #99 I believe.

Show me this documentation, I have not seen "proof" that Zimmerman "went after" Martin. Yeah, I think he tried to keep him under surviellance but I have not seen any fact where he "went after" him. I guess that begs the question, does your documentation defiine what it meant by "went after".


Strictly my opinion based on Documented fact. Since I am cannot see into the future any more then anyone else can, this is very obviously my opinion of what is going to occur.

I didn't put this one here for the prediction, I put it for the statement "all of which was deliberately attempted to be avoided by the "justice" system,". So is this fact or opinion? I'm sure now that it will be opinion since it can't be substantiated, right.


Documented fact." from178 also. So, where is the documentaion that not one thing Zimmerman said actually occurred? Did he claim he called 911? We have evidence of it? Did he claim he was hit? There were documented laceration to his head that were treated by EMS at the scene. So, I say it would be unsubstantiated to say "anything". Now, I agree that there are a few items claimed that are in question, but again your challenge was to show you one thing that was unsubstantiated.


YOU REALLY SOUND LIKE......obviously my opininion. Do you even understand the difference between a persons opinion and when a person states fact?

Again, that is not why I included this snippet, I get that the first part is your opinion but when you finish with "no matter how much physical evidence does not support his claims." I would say this is your statement of a fact, which I do not believe is a fact as you present it. Same as the one above...


Documented fact by Zimmerman's own accounting on the 911 tape. Zimmerman let the 911 operator assume that Martin was near the houses even though Zimmerman had already stated that Martin was at the clubhouse. Martin's girlfriend's testimony also puts Martin at the clubhouse, under an awning to keep out of the rain.

Now, that is not what your statement of fact says, it simply said, "Martin was not walking aroung the area near the houses." I have seen it documented that a witness did see him walking behind some houses, so wouldn't that be near the houses. In fact, i als read that the clubhouse was adjacent to some of the houses, so if he had gone to the clubhouse, he had to walk near the houses.


Documented fact, denied only by Zimmerman but supported by the physical evidence and timing of the attack. From #199

I'll have to ask for the documention that show the "aggressive" pusuit that you refer to in this one. I have not seen that documentation. I would say unsubstantiated but I'm open to change that if you can show me.


Documented fact. A neighborhood "watch person" would by definition of "watch" not have come into contact with Martin, outside of and away from his vehicle.

Now, I would have bet I would get chastised for including this one as fact, I was sure you would say this was opinion... I don't disagree with the premise, but it is not substantiated fact. You state it as fact, but I'd chalk it up as opinion based upon the definiton you refernce.


Documented fact with an error on my part. Martin was not trying to get "out" of the neighborhood because Martin was staying with someone who lives "IN" the neighborhood. Martin was only about 100 yards from his father's girlfriends house when he was shot and killed.

I agree with the error part, so OK. But also the statement of chasing, I do not believe that word is factual, now maybe that he was trying to keep watch Martin, yeah but not chase him down. I say unsubstantiated but I'm open to seeing your documented proof on that one.

BTW, if Z was trying to chase down Martin, do you think he could catch him on foot if Martin wanted to get away? I find that doubtful, but that whole aspect of this story still does not sit well with me. To many gray areas here.


Documented fact. I think this is also post 199.

Show me this documentation, I have not found this as fact but I'm open to it. Your statement was, "We have no indication whatsoever that Martin came back and every indication that Zimmerman never stopped following Martin".



OK, I have to ask; are you really not able to understand the written word?

Yeah I can to some degree but sometimes I get confused when opinion is stated as fact or I read a sentence with both in it and you assume I am referring to the opinion when, in fact, I actually was referring to the unsubstantiated fact you chose to include in your opinion.



I clearly stated; Which you even quoted. Do you not understand the difference between unsubstantiated and opinion? Everything you posted from me was either completely substantiated on the post that you only copied my comment or was clearly an opinion.

OK, well I guess the challenge wasn't actually something you wanted a response on. I guess maybe that wasn't really a challenge now was it, just opinion. Well my bad Robo, I guess a lowly person like myself should never answer a challenge from the mighty Robo.


Is English your first language? You just "substantiated" exactly what I stated.

Wow, pretty one sided are we? Well maybe I'll be able to absorb some of your brilliance through the fibers that connect us.

I think your challenge was to just show one unsubstantiated fact. I think I did. I am sure you think I didn't and will rationalize away any of my explanation above. I would hope a third party will tell us if I was able to point out just on unsubstantiated fact as you requested. That is if we don't bore them to death first.

And Robo, there was never any deceit intended form me. I was just simply trying to show you where some of your statements were biased from my point of view. We even discussed it much earlier in this thread. I hope I might have cleared some of that up with the explanations but if not, deceit is not what was intended, no reason for it.