What size Heat Pump?

[leedesert]

I'm checking up on my contractor so I want to make sure the heat pump is proper tonage.
My home is 2060sq ft. It is two story with dual pump/air handlers. I don't know the tonage on the pump but the air handlers are 2 ton units. The pumps are Trane XE-1000's and the air handlers are Trane TWG025A's(2 ton according to Trane's website).

Your help is appreciated.

[rayr]

Get the model #s of the outdoor units. If he is putting in two 2 ton units it sounds oversized. Do a load calculation and you will know what the requirement is.

[Pressureman]

Try http://www.HVAC-Calc.com for residential systems. Using the square footage method can get you in trouble. It is worth the $39.00

[leedesert]

I'll get the model# and post tonight. I don't know how to do a load calculation.

[rayr]

You get the Hvac-Calc program which is self explanatory and you will know how to do a load calc. It is really easy and worth the effort. A lot of HO's from this forum have done it.

[leedesert]

I was hopeing someone could help me without my spending $40 right now. I'm a bit tight with other expenses now.

[rayr]

$40.00 is certainly cheap insurance for the type of investment you are making. A mistake can cost you thousands down the road, not to mention the discomfort.

[HVACneophyte]

Originally posted by rayr
$40.00 is certainly cheap insurance for the type of investment you are making. A mistake can cost you thousands down the road, not to mention the discomfort.

As a homeowner with no tech. experience, I totally agree with rayr, and recommend you suck up the $39. I did, and honestly, it was a snap. I actually compared notes with the load calcs that 2 contractors had done and found that it was right in the ballpark (mine was actually off a bit because I didn't measure a couple of things correctly). But, in the end, I understood exactly why the contractors were recommending the size units they were recommending. Turns out that my upstairs system was oversized and there were at least 2 guys who simply said "Oh, you have a 2 1/2 ton unit now, so we'll need a 2 1/2 ton unit to replace it" when, in fact, my upstairs needed just a shade over 1 1/2 tons. Saved me some $$$.

So, IMHO, forgo your morning coffee and paper for a couple of weeks if you have to. $39 could save you thousands.

[Pressureman]

I may be getting out of line here, but leedesert, I believe you will try to give your contractor a hard time. I smell something fishy here.
$39.00 is not a lot of money to pay to get the results needed for your home.
HVAC is a big investment for your home. You want cheap, you are going to get cheap.
I personally believe you want to see if you are getting ripped off. I can understand that if that is your thought. Did you get referrals from friends or relatives about an HVAC contractor? If you did let him do his job. You'll be back on this forum crying later.

[arxaw]

Originally posted by leedesert
I was hopeing someone could help me without my spending $40 right now. I'm a bit tight with other expenses now.

You can't accurately size hvac equipment in a discussion forum and there is no sq footage "rule of thumb" that sizes correctly either.

If you're too cheap to spend 40 bucks for a load calc, save it now, but you'll spend a lot more than that on the oversized equipment you'll get stuck with in your install. You'll also pay for it every month in higher utility bills and shorter equipment life from short-cycling compressors.

[tech-man]

A load calculation needs to be done. That is the only way of knowing what your house needs. HVAC-CALC. is the only way to go. Is this a new home or existing. Ask the contractor for the load calculation for your house. Thirty nine dollars is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

[leedesert]

Thank you for your suggestions but to be quite honest, there are people out there willing to help someone without making someone spend $40 on a program he will use once. I was hopeing to find people like that here.

I just checked up on my pumps and they are each 2 ton unit (24,000 BTUH).

My downstairs is 1250sq ft and upstairs is 810sq ft.

If anyone can tell me if this sounds about right for the units they installed please reply, I appreciate any comments that help.


I may be getting out of line here, but leedesert, I believe you will try to give your contractor a hard time.

You're right, you're out of line. I just want to make sure the most used appliance in my house is done right. I have about 1 more week to check on these items and I just don't have $40 to spend.

I have noticed that this sites sole advertiser is HVAC Calc. Very interesting.

If someone can offer advise besides "buy the program" I'll appreciate it.

[weathered]

Hi leedesert - Yep, sounds like the right size to me. 2 tons is exactly what you need.

Glad we could be of help. :)

[arxaw]

Originally posted by leedesert
... I just want to make sure the most used appliance in my house is done right.

I've got news for you, you're not going to get it "done right" by sizing it on the internet. Anyone who doesn't get a load calc done, especially with HPs, is a fool.

[rayr]

If you didn't plan on taking the advice of people who have done this for a living for decades, why did you bother to ask?? Keep asking around and sooner you will hear the answer you want to hear. LOL

[tech-man]

Again I recommend asking your contractor for the load calculation. We as a group do want to help. Better to be mad at your contractor than the people on this web site. If you have to check-up on your contractor sounds like you have the wrong contractor. I don't think anyone is getting any residuals from recommending Hvac-Calc. I use it and it works.

[leedesert]

ok, I'll contact my builder to get the load calculations. I'm sorry if I got a bit short but Charlie's comment rubbed me the wrong way.

I guess what I'm looking for is if the size match sounds close to correct. I know you can't be exact but I don't want to waist a lot of time and irritate my contractor with having to look up information like this if everything is ok. I'm reconsidering buying that program on my credit card so don't think your advice is not heard. Thanks for your inputs, even those I didn't like.

[tech-man]

We understand your situation. Let us know how everything turns out. Enjoy your new home.

[BamaCracker]

The problem here, which no one has explained fully, is that we can not possibly even guess closely with the information you have given us here. If your house is a typical construction, located in Oklahoma, with no shade, on the south west side of a hill, two four-ton units may or may not do it, (I have 5 tons on 2400 sq ft) depending on how much glass is present, how much insulation in ceiling and walls, what kind of windows and doors, vinyl siding or brick, how many occupants in house, what setting do you like your cooling set on, do you have attic ventilation (power or natural?)

On the other hand, if your home is located in Wisconsin, and of any recent vintage, 4 tons is over sized. There are W-A-Y too many variables for anyone here to make a semi-accurate guess.

Now, to address the other problem here. When someone shows up at your front door, or calls you on the phone, and asks you a question, you can't help but wonder why they want to know. So, you base your response on the EXACT wording of their question, and the attitude with which they asked it. Most of the guys on this web site are contractors. You began your question by saying,
" I'm checking up on my contractor so I want to make sure the heat pump is proper tonage. "
You might as well have said, "I don't trust contractors, you all lie and steal, so tell me if my contractor is lying or stealing." No, that is not what you said, that's what most people here heard you say. Then, to add injury to (perceived) insult, you refuse to spend $40 to perform a load calculation that would be accurate and remove all your doubts. The man who created HVAC-Calc owns this web site, and pays the considerable fees involved in hosting and moderating a web site this size. He is, by default, the only advertiser. But, we don't get paid for selling you the product. If we did not believe it was; by far, the greatest product of it's kind on the market, we'd give you some other advice.

So, as a design engineer, what is it I'm trying to say? :D Download the program, and by this time tomorrow, you'll not only know exactly what your load should be, you'll understand why your load is that much (or that little) and where changes to your home might benefit you most.

Sorry if we came across a little strong, we just perceived that you came across that way. If you'd like to give us some more information about the details I mentioned, someone here can make a semi-close guess at your load, but it's still only a guess.

Goodluck with your house. Let us know what you decide to do.

[kim]

The first step is check your contractors refferences. If he seems like a duck, he is probably a duck. If he has done good work for your friends and people you trust he will do good work for you. Don't buy the program if you don't want. Many people get a good feeling from getting in on their own job. The peace of mind from doing the relatively easy calculations yourself, is worth $40. AC systems cost a good deal of money, peace of mind is priceless.

[leedesert]

Bama,

Thank you for your reply. I guess I did chose bad wording when I opened this thread. If it's any consolation, I downloaded the trial and will probably activate it today.
The installer is a reputable Trane rep. in this area so I'm sure he does good work but I have found area's where his worker's have gotten shoddy. Several ducts had large gaps between the wall and rim of the duct behind the actual vent cover. The air would have blown into the wall there but I got them to fix it. They also failed to seal a hole cut out in the downstairs air return box. They used some black rubber like filler but it oozed out of the hole. I opened the air return grate and removed the filter to look inside and the insulation is hanging from the attached outer wall. Once the system turned on I would have had fiber glass particles blowing through the house.

Anyway, these are the things that have prompted me to question their workmanship.

[BamaCracker]

Now, that's the information that would make it understandable for you to question him. Good for you that you watch and keep an eye out.

In his defense, most companies I have worked for a person whose job it is to go behind the crews and look for just the sort of things you have found yourself. Keep watching, and stay involved. Good job on downloading the program, now you'll know for sure. And, HVAC-Calc has the best one-on-one help desk you've ever experienced, so if you have questions, ask.

Keep us up to date,

BC

[Pressureman]

Leedesert: Sorry if I came on a little strong. From reading your other thread, Am I correct this is a new home being built? I, now can understand your concern and being nervous.
They probably put a builder's grade in your home. You have to request that upgrade.
The architect or builder should have did a heat/cool load on your home. I am glad to see you doing your own load calculation. Sometimes they are undersized, especially the homes in my area.
Hope you do well!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kim]

If I were having a house built, I would check up on the contractor's work too. You did not pick that contractor, your builder did. Your builder might have picked the best in town then offered him less money than he ussually gets. In new construction many corners are cut. You stay on top of them, and you will get a better house. Take a box of donuts out the the workers several times and you will get a better house. Try to look like them when you go out there. A suit will not get the workmen on your side. A pair of jeans will allow the men to think they can relate to you better. There was a privite home inspector that used to come around jobs that I was on. The builder did not know if he was a sub or not. He talked to us during breaks and bought us ice cream and gatoraid when the ice cream truck came around the job site (I bet they sell more ice cream at construction sites then playgrounds.) His clients got better houses because he found problem when there was still time to fix them.

Good luck with your new house. They do build them like they used to if you can make them.

[leedesert]

Well Gentlemen, the numbers are in.

I went through the program and after getting some guidance from HVAC Calc's help line I've come to this conclusion. My system is fine.

The HVAC program says my Heat Gain is 30,507BTUH (2.5 Tons)and my heat loss is 25,647BTUH.

The system that was installed has two units. Each (upsatirs and downstairs) has a 2 ton heat pump for a total of 4 tons for the house.

The gentlemen who helped me from HVAC Calc said that I'm fortunate that they installed a dual zone system as standard. He said that more than likely my upstairs will do most of the work in the summer since the cool air travels down the open stairway. The opposite will happen in the winter.

He also said it was better to have two 2Ton units than one 3Ton unit covering the whole house.

Anyway, I gave you all that so I can say thanks. I kinda got off to a wrong start but I think you all have changed over time. :D

[Edited by leedesert on 01-30-2002 at 01:29 PM]

[Pressureman]

Glad to see everything worked out for you. You are lucky, Two systems are not standard in NJ area, they are upgrades. You will be happier and the systems will be more efficient.
You sound confident and pleased. Great!Enjoy your new home and keep those filters clean.