View Full Version : The Machine
In order to know how to fix things, one first has to understand what or why its broke......a must watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Xh5eN2fXY&feature=player_embedded
enjoy
Roy
coolwhip
03-06-2012, 03:22 PM
Agreed Roy!
WebCTRL
03-06-2012, 04:51 PM
An occupy film? Against everything but for what? Stand for what? It was all over the map and just seemed to be against everything, just stand up against, Everything, I guess?
It just seems to me that this clip is kind of like the Occupy Movement, stands against everything with no direction or idea of what and how to fix anything.
Against Bush, Against Obama, against the police, against America, what is it for? What is a person supposed to do, other than protest and get arrested.
It lost me. Is it a Ron Paul 2012 campaign video? kidding!
An occupy film? Against everything but for what? Stand for what? It was all over the map and just seemed to be against everything, just stand up against, Everything, I guess?
It just seems to me that this clip is kind of like the Occupy Movement, stands against everything with no direction or idea of what and how to fix anything.
Against Bush, Against Obama, against the police, against America, what is it for? What is a person supposed to do, other than protest and get arrested.
It lost me. Is it a Ron Paul 2012 campaign video? kidding!
Boy are you lost, I didnt post it as a occupy protest, dont think much of the occupy movement, its protesting the wrong thing. The only thing I liked abou the movement was, it showed what was going to happen if there was ever a real protest....dont depend on law enforcement to protect your rights.
Roy
WebCTRL
03-06-2012, 05:53 PM
Boy are you lost, I didnt post it as a occupy protest, dont think much of the occupy movement, its protesting the wrong thing. The only thing I liked abou the movement was, it showed what was going to happen if there was ever a real protest....dont depend on law enforcement to protect your rights.
Roy
Well, help me out here. Why did you post it? What is you message in re-posting it? I just saw all negative with no direction. What I saw was all the bad without any solution. Did I miss the solution?
If I am lost, help me understand it, seriously. I certainly do not own a pair of rose colored glasses.
SolarMike
03-06-2012, 06:01 PM
Roy, right on......
enb54
03-06-2012, 06:15 PM
In order to know how to fix things, one first has to understand what or why its broke......a must watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Xh5eN2fXY&feature=player_embedded
enjoy
Roy
Well, it does make you think, and thinking is a good thing. I don't agree, but perhaps I'll look a bit closer at my lifestyle and the "whys" of what we do to the rest of the world...
SolarMike
03-06-2012, 06:20 PM
Well, it does make you think, and thinking is a good thing. I don't agree, but perhaps I'll look a bit closer at my lifestyle and the "whys" of what we do to the rest of the world...
Why do you not agree?
If you look at any system, the successful people gain more than the less successful and the positive feedback of the system allows it to biuild. As Archie Bunker said..."survival of the fattest". It is inevitable that, some day this will happen.
ga-hvac-tech
03-06-2012, 07:31 PM
I tend to agree of what the USA has become in the recent couple of generations... and IMO the roots go back into the 1800's. However:
Folks will NOT convince me this country was formed FOR this purpose. The founding fathers had some knoble ideas... which have been perverted by interests of greed and finance (and others I am sure).
It is a shame a country that was once as GREAT as the USA... is about to self-destruct if we do not get a handle on the corruption both in DC and the corporate suite.
BTW: I agree that the video... in 22+ minutes, did NOT offer any solutions. Should have done that IMO. All negative and no positive is kinda boring.... IMO if someone does not have a constructive solution... they should just keep quiet.
batdude
03-06-2012, 07:36 PM
a very simple Step ONE: End the Fed
Candidates who will do that deserve consideration.
Those who do not... don't.
Naturally, the one who talks on this subject is forbidden to consider by the corporate whore press.
It's really odd to me that he isn't winning by a landslide.
ga-hvac-tech
03-06-2012, 07:48 PM
a very simple Step ONE: End the Fed
Candidates who will do that deserve consideration.
Those who do not... don't.
Naturally, the one who talks on this subject is forbidden to consider by the corporate whore press.
It's really odd to me that he isn't winning by a landslide.
To end the fed would be a HUGE step towards 'honest money'. From what I know about financial markets (considerable)... the USA would promptly go into a deep recession that would probably last for at least a decade. Add to this exports would be DEAD (nobody around the world would do business with us because they are ALL controlled by the same group that controls the fed)... and that recession--well DEPRESSION--probably would last 2 decades.
Are you SURE you want to pay that price of an idealistic ideal... that would probably end with the USA being conquered by China or some other corrupt country controlled by the same cabal that runs the fed?
The picture is bigger than the idealism folks see.
IMO the first step is forcing the fed govt to balance their budget, and pay the entire natl debt in 10 years. Then NO deficit spending EVER!
It is amazing how this one step would clean up a HUGE amount of corruption.
SolarMike
03-06-2012, 08:00 PM
Yes, end the Fed but also end the "corporation". Make it an arm of those who own it, personally. They can be partners or co-ops or associations but the owners HAVE to be personally responsible to the law.
enb54
03-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Why do you not agree?
If you look at any system, the successful people gain more than the less successful and the positive feedback of the system allows it to biuild. As Archie Bunker said..."survival of the fattest". It is inevitable that, some day this will happen.
I don't agree because it has been proved through history that democratic capitalism or if you want, enlightened socialism (both the same things essentially in my mind) are what makes people happy plus makes the world go round.
The historical alternatives are basically either totally corrupt, or foolishly idealistic, not saying that there are no imperfections in our democracies, but rather them than the alternatives. Religious zealots and Communists think they are disseminating perfect alternatives to our (in some mindthinkers) fractious and unfair world, but we are not machines, and can't always follow the path of righteousness (from whatever potentate).
The sad realism about humanity is that we are greedy, and we want more for ourselves, just a fact of life. Governments have been influenced and will continue to be by the military/industrial complex, but WE are the ones who are ultimately in control, the sheep don't care as long as they have some satisfaction in life, and of course the wolves take only the odd sheep.
We all want our wealthy (compared to the majority of this world) lifestyle and will move Hell on Earth to keep it, but there are other hard fought values that we all keep dear to our hearts, and we mustn't forget that there are others out there who would love to take it all away.
The barbarians are at the gates, and they are our fellow human beings who want to destroy equality, burn/ban books, restrict research, and generally make us all slaves to some specific political or religious model (determined by someone else).
There is no absolute "right" answer in a democracy, and that's why we can all express ourselves and get PO'd at each other without being hauled away in the middle of the night.
THAT is what happens in other places... even the Utopian "Worker's Paradise" of North Korea...
Wanna move there?
Just my :.02: worth, not trying to offend anyone...
SolarMike
03-07-2012, 06:42 AM
I don't agree because it has been proved through history that democratic capitalism or if you want, enlightened socialism (both the same things essentially in my mind) are what makes people happy plus makes the world go round.
The historical alternatives are basically either totally corrupt, or foolishly idealistic, not saying that there are no imperfections in our democracies, but rather them than the alternatives. Religious zealots and Communists think they are disseminating perfect alternatives to our (in some mindthinkers) fractious and unfair world, but we are not machines, and can't always follow the path of righteousness (from whatever potentate).
The sad realism about humanity is that we are greedy, and we want more for ourselves, just a fact of life. Governments have been influenced and will continue to be by the military/industrial complex, but WE are the ones who are ultimately in control, the sheep don't care as long as they have some satisfaction in life, and of course the wolves take only the odd sheep.
We all want our wealthy (compared to the majority of this world) lifestyle and will move Hell on Earth to keep it, but there are other hard fought values that we all keep dear to our hearts, and we mustn't forget that there are others out there who would love to take it all away.
The barbarians are at the gates, and they are our fellow human beings who want to destroy equality, burn/ban books, restrict research, and generally make us all slaves to some specific political or religious model (determined by someone else).
There is no absolute "right" answer in a democracy, and that's why we can all express ourselves and get PO'd at each other without being hauled away in the middle of the night.
THAT is what happens in other places... even the Utopian "Worker's Paradise" of North Korea...
Wanna move there?
Just my :.02: worth, not trying to offend anyone...
I totally agree with you that this is our history and our driving force. The author of that video gave no answers but his main points were that we have come to turn the US constitution into a religion of sorts and when that is done, there are those who will not question it nor the authors.
Our biggest problem is that, while we have seen great strides in the quality of life in some ways over the past few centuries, the making of the corporation, and central banks controlled by bankers, facilitated the massive financial discrepancies we are now seeing. The positive feedback will cause the gap between rich and poor to increase at a greater rate.
If we blindly say that there are political and social changes that we will not implement, because of our belief in the tenants of the constitution that protect property of corporations as though they were people, but leave the controllers of those corporations outside personal law, we will not be able to change the system as need be.
As an example, we see lots of arguments on this site that government cannot get into the healthcare business and many of these arguments are based on a belief that we should not compete with business, even it it can be done for the greater good of the vast majority of the population. This attitude comes from these roots and we cannot fix anything in the system until people can think without biases.
The discrepancies will get worse and we will just complain more and the super rich will just laugh. It is in our best interests to have a very large and vibrant middle class and as you say, given a measure of freedom and a bit of money in our pockets we will be happy. All the chaos we are seeing is because that apple cart is being upset.
acmanko
03-07-2012, 08:41 AM
I think the 22nd amendment needs repealed, we have a President now who is good for a lifetime.
enb54
03-07-2012, 10:07 AM
I think the 22nd amendment needs repealed, we have a President now who is good for a lifetime.
So I guess if we could, we all voted for Vladimir Putin?
coolwhip
03-07-2012, 10:11 AM
I think the 22nd amendment needs repealed, we have a President now who is good for a lifetime.
And you should be the poster child for euthanasia.:yes:
acmanko
03-07-2012, 03:13 PM
So I guess if we could, we all voted for Vladimir Putin?
I like Putin, he gets what he wants however it difficult it might be.
acmanko
03-07-2012, 03:14 PM
And you should be the poster child for euthanasia.:yes:
what you gonna do?:whistle:
enb54
03-07-2012, 03:32 PM
I like Putin, he gets what he wants however it difficult it might be.
I know a couple who emmigrated from Russia, and they say that actually he's the best of a bad bunch. I would have to work myself around the fact that he's an ex KGB Colonel, but in the environment over there, perhaps that's a good thing.
Also know some people who've had business dealings with Russian companies, the Canadians always wanted their money up front from the Russians, nearly impossible to collect if the Russians defaulted...
He definitely gets what he wants... :)
infwsdm
03-07-2012, 07:25 PM
The video was nothing but propaganda. Not historically accurate. The main purpose...anti capitalism, anti United States.
SolarMike
03-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Sorry but it didn't say anything that was anti capitalism or anti USA. What it said was anti corporatism at its worst. it is a wake up call. The FED and corporations were never envisioned by the founding fathers. The USA works because there is some balance....the American dream, remember it? There is no such thing when 99% is owned by 1%. It is all about keeping some balance.
acmanko
03-07-2012, 10:03 PM
That's not actually true. The Big corporation in the 1700's was the British Crown as it had 99% with very little balance
I know a couple who emmigrated from Russia, and they say that actually he's the best of a bad bunch. I would have to work myself around the fact that he's an ex KGB Colonel, but in the environment over there, perhaps that's a good thing.
Also know some people who've had business dealings with Russian companies, the Canadians always wanted their money up front from the Russians, nearly impossible to collect if the Russians defaulted...
He definitely gets what he wants... :)
Are you aware that one of our presidents was CIA ???
Roy
acmanko
03-07-2012, 10:37 PM
Are you aware that one of our presidents was CIA ???
Roy
Bush the first. I cannot fault a man for serving his Country.
batdude
03-07-2012, 11:43 PM
The video was nothing but propaganda. Not historically accurate. The main purpose...anti capitalism, anti United States.
Too bad we don't have capitalism in this country.
Imagine playing a game of Monopoly. One player, let's call him the BANKSTER, can reach under the table any time he wants and obtain unlimited funds.
Who will win the game? How often?
Having a central bank is one of the ten planks of the Communist Manifesto.
I support Ron Paul as the only non-communist candidate.
The others are "conservatives"????, don't make me PUKE.!!! They are the Kenyan's sould brothers. Might as well vote for the real one, save moving expense.
Bat, some just dont get it, and never will.....they dont have a clue.
Roy
SolarMike
03-08-2012, 06:26 AM
Bat, some just dont get it, and never will.....they dont have a clue.
Roy
Are you referring to Bat, in this case?
Are you referring to Bat, in this case?
batdude
scrogdog
03-08-2012, 11:32 AM
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson
acmanko
03-08-2012, 11:36 AM
That's why the Federal Reserve System was created.
WebCTRL
03-08-2012, 12:07 PM
To end the fed would be a HUGE step towards 'honest money'. From what I know about financial markets (considerable)... the USA would promptly go into a deep recession that would probably last for at least a decade. Add to this exports would be DEAD (nobody around the world would do business with us because they are ALL controlled by the same group that controls the fed)... and that recession--well DEPRESSION--probably would last 2 decades.
Are you SURE you want to pay that price of an idealistic ideal... that would probably end with the USA being conquered by China or some other corrupt country controlled by the same cabal that runs the fed?
The picture is bigger than the idealism folks see.
IMO the first step is forcing the fed govt to balance their budget, and pay the entire natl debt in 10 years. Then NO deficit spending EVER!
It is amazing how this one step would clean up a HUGE amount of corruption.
GA, I think you are right on here, as a first step. The first step can not be to end the Fed. As I am not against the idea, but at this point it would be disasterous. We have to get the Fed under control first as you stated so well. I think the 2nd step would be to get back on the gold standard as Country, 3rd then to balance the trade gap before we could begin the process to end the Fed.
I am not against it, we just can't be shortsighted in HOW we want and try to get it done!
WebCTRL
03-08-2012, 12:13 PM
Yes, end the Fed but also end the "corporation". Make it an arm of those who own it, personally. They can be partners or co-ops or associations but the owners HAVE to be personally responsible to the law.
That appears to be a good idea on its face, but, again, it would be disasterous in our current state as a Counrty, I think, because in our litigous society, frivilous law suites would wipe out many small businesses in the process. Insurance rates on small business would skyrocket thus causing alot of pain to the small business, its owner(s) and customers.
BTW, just because you are incorporated, you are not shielded as an officer of the Corporation, from illegal activity!
I am all for more personal repsonsibility, in all facets of life and business so I like the idea of being peronally responsible for the Corporation, but there would also have to other changes in how business is held accountable, especially to those who'll sue for any reason.
Ideas?
WebCTRL
03-08-2012, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by royc
Boy are you lost, I didnt post it as a occupy protest, dont think much of the occupy movement, its protesting the wrong thing. The only thing I liked abou the movement was, it showed what was going to happen if there was ever a real protest....dont depend on law enforcement to protect your rights.
Roy
Well, help me out here. Why did you post it? What is you message in re-posting it? I just saw all negative with no direction. What I saw was all the bad without any solution. Did I miss the solution?
If I am lost, help me understand it, seriously. I certainly do not own a pair of rose colored glasses.
Roy, I am still waiting. Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW, the author/creator, Paul F. Edwards, is an occupier, from Helena Montana. Very active in the Occupy Billings movement.
SolarMike
03-08-2012, 06:49 PM
GA, I think you are right on here, as a first step. The first step can not be to end the Fed. As I am not against the idea, but at this point it would be disasterous. We have to get the Fed under control first as you stated so well. I think the 2nd step would be to get back on the gold standard as Country, 3rd then to balance the trade gap before we could begin the process to end the Fed.
I am not against it, we just can't be shortsighted in HOW we want and try to get it done!
That is all well and good. I don't think you can go back to the gold standard as there isn't enough of it in the world for every country to hoard what it wants (or needs) and if you did, imagine the price...$1,000,000/oz maybe.
And the trade imbalance will be difficult unless all Americans trade only with countries that have somewhat similar taxes, respect for human life and a convertible monetary exchange (that takes out China, India and a host of other countries, for one or more of these reasons). Can you get all Americans to shop at Walmart only for goods made by equivalent countries to the US. Doubt it, but that is what is needed.
SolarMike
03-08-2012, 06:57 PM
That appears to be a good idea on its face, but, again, it would be disasterous in our current state as a Counrty, I think, because in our litigous society, frivilous law suites would wipe out many small businesses in the process. Insurance rates on small business would skyrocket thus causing alot of pain to the small business, its owner(s) and customers.
BTW, just because you are incorporated, you are not shielded as an officer of the Corporation, from illegal activity!
I am all for more personal repsonsibility, in all facets of life and business so I like the idea of being peronally responsible for the Corporation, but there would also have to other changes in how business is held accountable, especially to those who'll sue for any reason.
Ideas?
We could enact laws that see people or companies that have a grievance with another company go before a judge, without lawyers but with all the paperwork, and get a binding judgement in very short order. This is done in Europe all the time and has brought the costs of the courts way down with quick resolutions.
I am a director of a corporation and I know the liability I hold but how often have you seen the president of a large corp in front of a judge with the real possibility of going to jail. These events are so few that they almost always make the news.
Directors in Canada are not responsible for wages, taxes on profits and a host of other things if our company goes bankrupt (for whatever reason). We also have insurance that protects us from the stuff we are responsible for.
scrogdog
03-08-2012, 08:55 PM
That's why the Federal Reserve System was created.
Yep. Thus the irony of the situation.
The Feds have become exactly what they were supposed to protect us against according to Jeffersonion philosophy... as it were.
About that banks and corporations thing... :whistle:
acmanko
03-08-2012, 09:25 PM
The idea was to have one paper note issued by a central bank versus paper money issued by every bank on every corner of every city in every State
scrogdog
03-08-2012, 09:35 PM
The idea was to have one paper note issued by a central bank versus paper money issued by every bank on every corner of every city in every State
Um, yes.
Are you really missing the point that badly or do you need to read Jefferson's quote again? :beat:
:angel:
SolarMike
03-08-2012, 09:38 PM
The idea was to have one paper note issued by a central bank versus paper money issued by every bank on every corner of every city in every State
Which itself would be fine if it were not for the bankers who are capable of creating recession, where citizens bail out the big boys and recovery, where we all start putting our personal money back in again while our taxes go up to pay the big boys. Getting it from both ends, so to speak.
acmanko
03-09-2012, 07:06 AM
Um, yes.
Are you really missing the point that badly or do you need to read Jefferson's quote again? :beat:
:angel:
naw, I think it's you and others that like to quote Jefferson that need to reread.:cheers:
scrogdog
03-09-2012, 08:04 AM
naw, I think it's you and others that like to quote Jefferson that need to reread.:cheers:
See here... note the word "central" in the first sentence... :)
acmanko
03-09-2012, 08:11 AM
see there, 12 regional offices
DuctDude
03-09-2012, 05:24 PM
Sign me up to have to "re-read"
The fed is awesome. They print money out of air to send to something or someone (maybe their mega bank buddies for a bailout) then they put it on THE PEOPLE'S (us) tab! I love the fed! Heyyyy wait a min whats this nonsense about a central bank and fed hmmmm
Excellent vid btw.
acmanko
03-09-2012, 06:20 PM
The Fed does not now nor has it ever printed money. The US Mint prints all paper money and stamps all coins.
This is why people lose their argument, instead of learning about how something works, they pick a part of it and b!tch and moan.
scrogdog
03-10-2012, 02:01 AM
The Fed does not now nor has it ever printed money. The US Mint prints all paper money and stamps all coins.
This is why people lose their argument, instead of learning about how something works, they pick a part of it and b!tch and moan.
By the feds authority the US mint prints money.
My company has way more than 12 regional offices, BTW, but they all report to the same guy.
See here the word "central" in the first sentence... ;)
acmanko
03-10-2012, 07:13 AM
By the feds authority the US mint prints money.
My company has way more than 12 regional offices, BTW, but they all report to the same guy.
See here the word "central" in the first sentence... ;)
No,the US Treasury has that authority, and they tell the Mint what to do after The House of Representatives spends the money:cheers:. The Fed just Holds the money and distributes it for a fee
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