I was wrong about the *good news* from Canada

[jmac00]

There is no explaining the treatment this poor guy got.

Madness after a 4 year old draws a picture of a gun

A father has been arrested, strip-searched and hauled in for questioning – all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

“I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, told the Waterloo Region Record in Canada. “I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

A Kitchener resident, had arrived at Forest Hill public school to pick up his children when he was called to the principal’s office. Three police officers informed him he was being charged with possession of a firearm. Then he was escorted out of the school, handcuffed and locked in the back of a police car.

According to Sansone, he didn’t learn what had caused the investigation until hours after his arrest. Other officers arrived at his home, where they instructed his wife to come to the police station and took his other three children to Family and Children’s Services to be questioned.


“Nobody was given any explanation,” Sansone’s wife, Stephanie Squires, told the paper. “I didn’t know why he was being arrested. He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them. ‘You’re making a mistake.’”

Sansone was forced to undergo a full strip search.


The school principal, police and child welfare officials said there would need to be an investigation to determine whether he had a gun in his home that children could find.

Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services, told the Record, “From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child.”

Waterloo Regional Police Inspector Kevin Thaler said Forest Hill public school had complained that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

He told the paper the school officials’ concern wasn’t based merely on the girl’s picture. Neaveh, Sansone’s daughter, also purportedly made remarks about the drawing that troubled officials.

When a teacher asked Neaveh who the man in the picture was, she purportedly said, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

Sansone said several hours after his arrest a detective apologized and informed him that he would be released without charges.

“To be honest with you, I broke down,” Sansone told the Record. “My character got put down so much. I was actually really hurt, like it could happen that easy. How do you recognize a criminal from a father?”

After his release, authorities asked Sansone to sign a document allowing a search of his house. He said he signed it, even though he had the option to decline.

“I just think they blew it out of proportion,” his wife said. “It was for absolutely nothing. They searched our house upside down and found nothing. They had the assumption he owned a firearm.”

She added, “The way everything happened was completely unnecessary, especially since we know the school very well. I don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from a four-year-old’s drawing.”

Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services, said the agency was required to investigate after the school reported the incident.

“Our community would have an expectation if comments are made about a gun in a house, we’d be obligated to investigate that to ensure everything is safe,” she said. “In the end, it may not be substantiated. There may be a reasonable explanation for why the child drew that gun. But we have to go on what gets presented to us.”

According to the report, she acknowledged, “I’m sure this was a very stressful thing for the family.”

As for the strip search, Thaler said the procedure was required “for officer safety, because it’s a firearms-related incident.”

He noted, “At the point in the investigation when it was determined it was not a real firearm, the individual was released unconditionally.”

this Bull:censored: is pure lunacy. there are much easier ways to investigate this incident without arresting anyone and a strip search, what? are you Canadians just kinky or what?

ALL of this is done without explanation to the family

[zw17]

If the gun grabbers have their way... This would be coming to a town near you in the good ol' US of A.

I hope to god that this family gets millions for their troubles. That is one retarded school and police force.

[enb54]

this Bull:censored: is pure lunacy. there are much easier ways to investigate this incident without arresting anyone and a strip search, what? are you Canadians just kinky or what?

ALL of this is done without explanation to the family

Am very sure there is going to be a LOT of flack about this, seems that there were too many "policies" being followed and not enough common sense. Wait and see...

[Special Ed]

I would be finding myself a lawyer. A mere apology wouldn't be enough for the indignity of being strip searched for what amounted to no reason at all.

Besides, I need the money.... :grin2::grin2:

[AC5096]

Not much different here in this bastion of conservatism.

A few years ago a 1st grader brought a 22 rimfire cartridge to school and the school called in the bomb squad.

[printer2]

PORT ORCHARD, Washington (AP) – A frightened 9-year-old boy accused of accidentally shooting a classmate sat before a judge in juvenile court, crying and wearing an orange jail jumpsuit, as his father gently rubbed his back.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-24/school-shooting-boy-court/53230190/1

As in the U.S., sh*t happens.

[enb54]

Not much different here in this bastion of conservatism.

A few years ago a 1st grader brought a 22 rimfire cartridge to school and the school called in the bomb squad.

When I went to primary school, we had a safety program run by the local police that was called "Elmer the Safety Elephant" (safe elephant?). Anyway, they had display boards with all kinds of blasting caps on them, plus different kinds of deactivated ammunition/grenades/shell casings so that we kids could recognize stuff that we were not supposed to be playing with. I do recall kids coming to school with all kinds of weird and dangerous stuff for "show and tell" sessions. Teachers would usually just take a look, and if it looked live, confiscate and call the police for pickup. I never remember any parent or child getting charged...

The place I grew up had a lot of hard rock mining activity and also had a large military air base with an aircraft firing range, lots of us kids would look for shell casings and stuff on that range. My father really gave me a verbal wholloping over bringing home several live 20mm aircraft cannon shells, that's just the way it was...

There were many instances in those days of kids hurting themselves with industrial/military leftovers, and my dad told me that a lot of kids in Europe got killed at the end of WW2 hostilities by playing with discovered guns and other ordinance...

Different times and attitudes...

[jmac00]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-24/school-shooting-boy-court/53230190/1

As in the U.S., sh*t happens.

really? what does an accidental shooting have to do with a child DRAWING A PICTURE of a gun and then the father getting STRIPPED searched. not to mention being arrested WITHOUT EXPLANATION.

I wonder what would happen if the child drew a picture of her mother pole dancing:gah::gah:

[tunnel_rat]

And Canada is one of the more "reasonable" countries on this planet......doesn't say much for common senses' survival.

[printer2]

really? what does an accidental shooting have to do with a child DRAWING A PICTURE of a gun and then the father getting STRIPPED searched. not to mention being arrested WITHOUT EXPLANATION.

I wonder what would happen if the child drew a picture of her mother pole dancing:gah::gah:

She would be asked to strip?



If you do not see the relationship between the two stories and the country they originated in and the net effect, well...

[jmac00]

She would be asked to strip?



If you do not see the relationship between the two stories and the country they originated in and the net effect, well...

lets see, Printer once again trying to divert the topic, and Jmac trying to stay on topic.

Lets see if you can logically get from a child accidentally shooting a class mate. To a child drawing a picture:


especially when the father of the artist has no weapons....at all

the ball is in your court, feel free to try and make the leap from one to the other

[printer2]

lets see, Printer once again trying to divert the topic, and Jmac trying to stay on topic.

Lets see if you can logically get from a child accidentally shooting a class mate. To a child drawing a picture:


especially when the father of the artist has no weapons....at all

the ball is in your court, feel free to try and make the leap from one to the other

Can you logically think it through that we feel differently about guns in our two countries? Where you have them at hands reach we generally tend to keep them safely stored away.

[SolarMike]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-24/school-shooting-boy-court/53230190/1

As in the U.S., sh*t happens.

The parent should be charged for being "stupid". "Yes, yer honour, One charge of stupidity and one of idiocy"

[SolarMike]

really? what does an accidental shooting have to do with a child DRAWING A PICTURE of a gun and then the father getting STRIPPED searched. not to mention being arrested WITHOUT EXPLANATION.

I wonder what would happen if the child drew a picture of her mother pole dancing:gah::gah:

Do you know something we don't?:whistle:

[o-ring]

I live in Waterloo and heard this on the radio.After the first couple of times the story changed to " The police, principal, and child care services said that there were other factors in play" WTF! My 4 year old son runs around shooting Buzz Lightyears laser and I do not have a gun!
Looks like I will have to sit him down and tell him not to have an IMAGINATION!

[jmac00]

Do you know something we don't?:whistle:


Can you logically think it through that we feel differently about guns in our two countries? Where you have them at hands reach we generally tend to keep them safely stored away.

OMG? this is like dealing with the mentally challenged?


I am utterly stunned you two think that drawing a PICTURE of a gun and being arrested for it is in anyway connected with a child actually shooting someone.............

I give up, no one is this stupid:gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

[barbar]

I give up, no one is this stupid:gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

I am, can I get my green paper now!:cheers:

[o-ring]

OMG? this is like dealing with the mentally challenged?


I am utterly stunned you two think that drawing a PICTURE of a gun and being arrested for it is in anyway connected with a child actually shooting someone.............

I give up, no one is this stupid:gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

Maybe she was a bit too quick on the DRAW!:cheers:

[jmac00]

Maybe she was a bit too quick on the DRAW!:cheers:

BWHAHAHAHA, so was the guy that wanted to do a strip search, :grin2:

[printer2]

OMG? this is like dealing with the mentally challenged?


I am utterly stunned you two think that drawing a PICTURE of a gun and being arrested for it is in anyway connected with a child actually shooting someone.............

I give up, no one is this stupid:gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah::gah:

Well I explained the relationship to you earlier in simple terms and you still do not get it.


Now in terms of how you deal with guns down there I have not said anything for or against, basically you do things differently than we do (nothing to do with the strip search, every place has overzealous cops, doubt it is standard procedure). But you are quite comfortable taking a holier than thou attitude towards a different culture that does not see things your way and insult me and my countryman when you have no intelligent reply.

So I ask myself, why am I bothering with you?

[jmac00]

Well I explained the relationship to you earlier in simple terms and you still do not get it.


Now in terms of how you deal with guns down there I have not said anything for or against, basically you do things differently than we do (nothing to do with the strip search, every place has overzealous cops, doubt it is standard procedure). But you are quite comfortable taking a holier than thou attitude towards a different culture that does not see things your way and insult me and my countryman when you have no intelligent reply.

So I ask myself, why am I bothering with you?

you are the grand master of changing the subject

[enb54]

So checking out the local paper there, came up with this quote...

"Sansone had a scrape with the law five years ago, but has since turned his life around, left Toronto for Kingston, Ont., and has become a certified counsellor".

Yah, I want him to help my kids/grandkids... duh!!!

Since I'm so kind and generous, I'll just say that he made a mistake and his kids reflected their home life in a different way that portrays our society as evil... or maybe I'm absolutely wrong...

Fire away, I'm waiting...

PS... I've got a special 20mm present for pedophiles...

Not being nasty, just telling the truth... (Can you tell I am not impressed with child molesting?)...

[jmac00]

So checking out the local paper there, came up with this quote...

"Sansone had a scrape with the law five years ago, but has since turned his life around, left Toronto for Kingston, Ont., and has become a certified counsellor".

Yah, I want him to help my kids/grandkids... duh!!!

Since I'm so kind and generous, I'll just say that he made a mistake and his kids reflected their home life in a different way that portrays our society as evil... or maybe I'm absolutely wrong...

Fire away, I'm waiting...

PS... I've got a special 20mm present for pedophiles...

Not being nasty, just telling the truth... (Can you tell I am not impressed with child molesting?)...

I guess I have to ask, "what scrape with the law" was it?

[enb54]

I guess I have to ask, "what scrape with the law" was it?

I have no idea, and maybe even the newspaper report about the "scrape" is fake. Who knows? As we all are well aware though, many stories have a lot of facts behind them that we know nothing about. In my life, have never encountered law enforcement/social services people (in USA or Canada) who as a group maliciously behaved as stupidly as this with no cause.

Am sure there is a lot more to this story than just some out of control justice system. If we don't hear any more, and I've been looking, then we can conclude that there is a lot more going on here than what is being reported...

Just my :.02:

[ga-hvac-tech]

IMO a classic example of govt taking their jobs too seriously.

For the folks north of the border: The documents founding the USA are CLEAR the govt is NOT allowed to do those things noted in this thread... even though they keep trying to usurp the limitations in the founding documents. You see, we take our freedom more seriously than you do... because we know we can loose it (like other countries already have).

It is the job of the citizens to keep govt within boundaries... If we go lax on that job... we risk something similar to some of the more destructive societies in history.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said: "All you have to do to loose your freedom is NOTHING"... In other words: Keep tight strings on govt.

[enb54]

You see, we take our freedom more seriously than you do...

Canadians do take their freedom seriously, and if you think that the same stuff does not happen in the USA, just take a closer look around. I have the privilege of being able to legally live in the USA or Canada, and am not so naiive to believe that either country is better than the other, just that there are pros and cons to each.

The thing about any government is that they basically can do anything they like, your rights are limited by how much money and publicity you can generate.

Ask any lawyer about this, either side of the border...

Just a comment, not being nasty...

[beshvac]

I live in Waterloo and heard this on the radio.After the first couple of times the story changed to " The police, principal, and child care services said that there were other factors in play" WTF! My 4 year old son runs around shooting Buzz Lightyears laser and I do not have a gun!
Looks like I will have to sit him down and tell him not to have an IMAGINATION!

:grin2:
When my daughter was 4.....people would come up and say "what a pretty little girl!" She would smile and press the button on her arm like buzz lightyear.....:grin2: I looked at my wife knowing my cute little daughter just lasered someone.......and they didn't know.....

[ControlsInMT]

::DD:::DD:::DD:::DD:

[ga-hvac-tech]

IMO a classic example of govt taking their jobs too seriously.

For the folks north of the border: The documents founding the USA are CLEAR the govt is NOT allowed to do those things noted in this thread... even though they keep trying to usurp the limitations in the founding documents. You see, we take our freedom more seriously than you do... because we know we can loose it (like other countries already have).

It is the job of the citizens to keep govt within boundaries... If we go lax on that job... we risk something similar to some of the more destructive societies in history.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said: "All you have to do to loose your freedom is NOTHING"... In other words: Keep tight strings on govt.


Canadians do take their freedom seriously, and if you think that the same stuff does not happen in the USA, just take a closer look around. I have the privilege of being able to legally live in the USA or Canada, and am not so naiive to believe that either country is better than the other, just that there are pros and cons to each.

The thing about any government is that they basically can do anything they like, your rights are limited by how much money and publicity you can generate.

Ask any lawyer about this, either side of the border...

Just a comment, not being nasty...

Nothing meant personally...

And yes, I know the same sh*t goes on; on both sides of the border. Kinda like that old saying: The world is a great place... it is just people that mess it up. Well; there are people on both sides of the border... and the lust for power (which manifests itself in oppressive govt) is just part of human nature).

I do have a question for the folks north of the border (please be specific): Do the founding documents of your country strictly forbid this invasive behavior on the part of govt? Ours do... we just do not take govt to task as much as we should.

[motoguy128]

Thsi story reminds me abotu hte whole situation in Iowa at hte end of last year when Open Carry and cencealed carry laws were going ot go into effect. The anti-gun groups (I'm somewhere in the middle personally) were freaking out that we'd have people walking aroudn with rifles over theri shoulder in public parks and the police were freaked out that they'd have everyone packing heat and could tell the good guys from the bad guys (you know because only bad guys carry guns) in a bad situation.

Long story short, the city held off on passing any ordinances regarding limiting the law (which would have been challenged and likely overturned by a state court). I can't say that I've seen anyone carrying a weapon (hence...concealed) nor have I seen anyone walking around iwht a gun on their shoulder. I'd read that there hasn't been a single incident with a legal conceled carry permit holder in the state wince hte law passed.

I must admit, in this part of the country, I actually feel fairly safe because I know so many responsible citizens have or carry weapons. You'd be an idiot to pull out a gun in public around here. Not only do we have a well trained, equipped and sizeable local police force for a town this size, you never know who is carrying and ready to step up.

[enb54]

Nothing meant personally...

And yes, I know the same sh*t goes on; on both sides of the border. Kinda like that old saying: The world is a great place... it is just people that mess it up. Well; there are people on both sides of the border... and the lust for power (which manifests itself in oppressive govt) is just part of human nature).

I do have a question for the folks north of the border (please be specific): Do the founding documents of your country strictly forbid this invasive behavior on the part of govt? Ours do... we just do not take govt to task as much as we should.

Well, would you really like to find out about those convoluted politics that founded the political entity known as Canada? Really hate to send you off to wikipedia, but google "British North America Act" and have a look, then you can rush off to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms .

If after looking (please skim, it's a lot faster) at this stuff you need more, then you are able to read yourself to sleep by searching the official Government of Canada website for "Charter of Rights and Freedoms ".

To save you all that trouble, I've attached a pdf of our "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" which actually is heavily influenced by the U.N. charter of rights.

Sorry, no revolutions here, we were far too polite for that (or maybe life was just too complacent? :) )

As you will have deduced after skimming that documentation, we didn't really take the reins fully until 1982, so be gentle with us... now that you know and understand...

[jmac00]

I found this particularly humorous


Fundamental Freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom
of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.


as long as you don't insult, harass or otherwise annoy ANY other person or culture, because if you do, you'll go to jail :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:

Now thats funny stuff

[enb54]

I found this particularly humorous


as long as you don't insult, harass or otherwise annoy ANY other person or culture, because if you do, you'll go to jail :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:

Now thats funny stuff

Yes, even we get a lot of chuckles about ourselves, but you have to remember that a lot of very high priced lawyers helped to write it...

The whole country is officially "multicultural" and of course bilingual (French & English), plus there seems to be more Spanish and Chinese spoken every day...

Oh darn! Forgot about Ukrainian, German & Italian... MY! my!... This place is starting to sound like the USA... Did I just say that? :)

Oh... But we still have a Queen... We know you folks want one (secretly), just look at all the Royal watchers in the USA...

Good that we all can laugh WITH each other...

[jmac00]

Yes, even we get a lot of chuckles about ourselves, but you have to remember that a lot of very high priced lawyers helped to write it...

The whole country is officially "multicultural" and of course bilingual (French & English), plus there seems to be more Spanish and Chinese spoken every day...

Oh darn! Forgot about Ukrainian, German & Italian... MY! my!... This place is starting to sound like the USA... Did I just say that? :)

Oh... But we still have a Queen... We know you folks want one (secretly), just look at all the Royal watchers in the USA...

Good that we all can laugh WITH each other...

No we want to BE ROYALTY, who doesn't want $700M a year and have EVERYONE Kiss your :censored:

:grin2::grin2:


Look every country has it's problems, but you have to admit, being arrested without explanation for your daughter drawing a picture of a gun is just stupid.

Hell when I was in third or fourth or fifth or was it sixth grade my notebook was full of plains shooting and bombing with army guys killing people, hell with that thought pattern my dad would still be in jail. But you know what happened? I got a lecture on not paying attention in school, not one word about killing everyone in North Korea, or was it WWII.....I forget, pick a conflict :grin2:

[enb54]

No we want to BE ROYALTY, who doesn't want $700M a year and have EVERYONE Kiss your :censored:

:grin2::grin2:


Look every country has it's problems, but you have to admit, being arrested without explanation for your daughter drawing a picture of a gun is just stupid.

Well, for the latest look at http://www.therecord.com/news/article/677919--police-chief-wants-review-of-arrest-sparked-by-gun-picture . Am sure there is going to be a lot of flack, this is not supposed to happen...

[jmac00]

my guess, The review will conclude that the police acted appropriately.

I think this could have been handled in a much less confrontational manor.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Well, for the latest look at http://www.therecord.com/news/article/677919--police-chief-wants-review-of-arrest-sparked-by-gun-picture . Am sure there is going to be a lot of flack, this is not supposed to happen...


my guess, The review will conclude that the police acted appropriately.

I think this could have been handled in a much less confrontational manor.

The question is:

Were the rights of the citizen violated by an arrest based on loose and insufficient evidence?

What freedom is all about is the LE folks know their a**es will be on the chopping block if they make a mistake like this. What tyranny is about is; oh well... no harm done. Well there WAS and IS harm done. Freedom has been removed from the rightful expectation of the public... and replaced with fear of the govt. Now tell me this is the way you want to live...

[enb54]

my guess, The review will conclude that the police acted appropriately.

I think this could have been handled in a much less confrontational manor.

Well, have changed my mind...

Just got told off by one of my friends, he said "What if no one did anything and the kid shot someone with that imaginary gun?"

That happened here last year, so I guess maybe it's better to be a bit paranoid and save a life than to do nothing. It still seems a bit overboard to me, but I guess you had to be there.

Apparently the father had previously been charged and convicted of aggravated assault and burglary, so that was probably a factor in the response...

[jmac00]

Well, have changed my mind...

Just got told off by one of my friends, he said "What if no one did anything and the kid shot someone with that imaginary gun?"


are you freaking kidding me? what if I hit someone in the head with an imaginary bat? waht crock of :censored:



That happened here last year, so I guess maybe it's better to be a bit paranoid and save a life than to do nothing. It still seems a bit overboard to me, but I guess you had to be there.

Apparently the father had previously been charged and convicted of aggravated assault and burglary, so that was probably a factor in the response...

convenient the media left that out of the story? is there any proof the father had a record? or is this more hearsay

[ga-hvac-tech]

are you freaking kidding me? what if I hit someone in the head with an imaginary bat? waht crock of :censored:




convenient the media left that out of the story? is there any proof the father had a record? or is this more hearsay

Obviously the guy does not understand the govt is not his friend and protector... hope he wises up before he gets taken for a ride (worse than he already is).

[enb54]

are you freaking kidding me? what if I hit someone in the head with an imaginary bat? waht crock of :censored:




convenient the media left that out of the story? is there any proof the father had a record? or is this more hearsay

Well, right now I'd say hearsay, but apparently published, haven't got the time or inclination to hunt further, I think we all agree that strange stories make the news, and ordinary ones don't.