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James 3528
05-01-2006, 10:20 PM
and why Howard Dean is a idiot.





By Colin McNickle
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, April 30, 2006

"Ignorance is the mother of devotion," wrote Henry Cole in 1599's "Disputations at Westminster." And never have so many been so devoted to ignorance than in the escalating debate over gasoline prices.
Let's start with the prices themselves. The current per-gallon pump price for regular gasoline and a barrel of crude oil are not "record" prices. If you calculate the prices in inflation-adjusted dollars, both cost more 25 years ago. If you paid for a gallon of gas in March 1981 in 2006 dollars, it would have cost just under $3.11.

Then there's talk of Big Oil's "excess profits." And there's plenty of misleading prose to bolster the contention, including this passage from The Washington Times:

"The $16 billion in combined first-quarter earnings expected from ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil Corp. and Chevron Corp., the country's three largest oil and gas companies, will be 14 times greater than the combined first-quarter profits of Google Inc., Apple Computer Inc. and Oracle Corp. and 19 percent more than last year."


So what? Indeed, as world demand for gasoline has soared so, quite naturally, have sales. Increased demand increases prices. It's elementary.
And when you divide profits by sales, as the Cato Institute's Jerry Taylor and Pete Van Doren did for the last quarter of 2005 -- the profit margin hardly is excessive. "The 20 largest investor-owned oil companies earned a collective 8.8 cents on every dollar of sales for that quarter," they concluded.

On the low end of the scale, British Petroleum earned just under 7 cents for every dollar of sales. For ExxonMobil, it was just under 11 cents, all well below the profit margins for at least one of the corporations cited by The Times.

For example, Apple Computer had a fourth-quarter profit margin of 22.7 percent. Messrs. Taylor and Van Doren also cite some other margins: At Yahoo, it was 45.5 percent. At Citigroup, it was 33.4 percent. And it was 24 percent at Intel.

So where are the catcalls of "gouging" and calls for a "windfall profits tax" on computer services, financial and tech sectors? Well?

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell last week, in a pandering and populist made-for-re-election moment, had the gall to stand in front of a gas pump in Harrisburg and say "There is no excuse for this -- absolutely no excuse. It's embarrassing." He wants a "windfall profits tax" to curb oil industry "profiteering."

What there really absolutely is no excuse for is a person in such a position of power and influence being so ignorant of fundamental economics and even history.

After the oil and gasoline price spikes of a quarter-century ago, Jimmy Carter and Congress, also prophets of pander, got their "windfall profits tax." It was scrapped in the late 1980s as the disaster it was, having reduced domestic production and, by an even greater percentage, increased our foreign oil imports.

What's the surest way to have less of something? Why, tax it, of course.

By the way, will those of Mr. Rendell's ilk be willing to take responsibility when oil investors, knowing full well what a "windfall profits tax" will lead to, start walking away from the industry and everybody's 401(k) takes a double-percentage point hit? Fat chance.

Government, by the way, is more to blame for artificially raising gasoline prices than the oil companies that refine it:


Around a quarter of the price you pay at the pump is tax. While a gallon of regular actually costs less today than it did in 1981 (again, in inflation-adjusted dollars), you're paying nearly 42 percent more in taxes these days. Who's the "gouger" here?

Reformulated, supposedly smog-reducing, gas jacks up the price just as increased summer demand also raises prices naturally. The Heritage Foundation's Jack Lieberman notes these boutique fuels "have done little to improve air quality."

Then there's ethanol, a double-whammy. Not only is a regulation requiring ethanol be mixed with gasoline an incredibly expensive sop to the farm lobby, it's a production nightmare. As a Detroit News editorial recently reminded, "Ethanol can't be shipped by pipeline. It has to be delivered by rail car and tanker trunk and that's more costly."

And I'll bet that government regulations -- everything from permitting to environmental -- have conspired more to stunt refining capacity than anything Big Oil supposedly has done. (If you can "gouge" and charge "record" prices in an era of never-ending demand, hey, why keep product from the market?)
Even the anecdotal talk of higher prices tanking the economy are coming up short. Yes, higher gasoline prices trickle into just about every corner of the economy. But consumer confidence rose this month to its highest level in nearly four years.

And, as the Commerce Department reported Friday, the economy continues to grow -- at about 5 percent in the first quarter of 2006, the largest increase since 2003. That is, the economy is having little real problem with gasoline prices and, in fact, has absorbed them with relatively little pain.

Indeed, should prices continue to rise (they've actually stabilized or fallen in the last few days), there will be a breaking point. But it's not now.

All of this -- even scratching the surface as it does -- is not meant as a defense of Big Oil, per se (though the facts, sans any evidence of domestic collusion to keep gasoline from consumers, do work to defend the oil industry).

Rather it is a call for something that historically has been lacking for decades in this and most other debates economic -- reasoned, critical and independent thinking that's free of group- and mob-think.

Repeatedly saying something doesn't make it so. And mistaking perceptions for reality -- perceptions conceived in ignorance, in error or intentionally for political gain -- then basing some shortsighted policy "reform" on them, will result in far greater harm than the current spike in the price of a gallon of gas

rob10
05-02-2006, 06:23 AM
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. BTW jamey, we are debating very big business, not your part time hack one man show!!

James 3528
05-02-2006, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. BTW jamey, we are debating very big business, not your part time hack one man show!!

I have deducted after reading your posts early in the morning that you are actually dumber in the morning. Had to believe you cold actually achieve that considering how stupid you are the rest of the day. .

homeownerplus
05-02-2006, 01:58 PM
Well James you can thank the Left wing whaco environmentalists for all of the restrictions for additives and permits, as well as the 25% tax on fuel prices. Shrink government spending and less dependancy on our handouts.

tonys
05-02-2006, 02:05 PM
hey Hommie...the additives in fuel are as much for YOUR benefit as any.

do you even consider the benzine exposure when you fill-up your right-wing-nut gas guzzler, and its association with cancer?

do ya?
huh?

James 3528
05-02-2006, 02:45 PM
I don't. It's next to nothing. In fact your chances of getting cancer or blowing up is greater if you are smoking while filling up.

Nice try Gomer.

coolprod
05-02-2006, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. BTW jamey, we are debating very big business, not your part time hack one man show!!

I have deducted after reading your posts early in the morning that you are actually dumber in the morning. Had to believe you cold actually achieve that considering how stupid you are the rest of the day. .

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

tonys
05-02-2006, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by James 3528
I don't. It's next to nothing. In fact your chances of getting cancer or blowing up is greater if you are smoking while filling up.

Nice try Gomer.



how long have you had your MD?

stick to stuff you really know,
like 100 push-ups ON COMMAND.

James 3528
05-02-2006, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by tonys

Originally posted by James 3528
I don't. It's next to nothing. In fact your chances of getting cancer or blowing up is greater if you are smoking while filling up.

Nice try Gomer.



how long have you had your MD?

stick to stuff you really know,
like 100 push-ups ON COMMAND.

You have the floor. Tell us what you know.

You are at the pump. Your hand is on the pump. Tell us about the dangers of benzine exposure or forever suffer my wrath

homeownerplus
05-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Well I guzzle about $10 of gas /week at the current prices so I doubt I would benefit as much as others.

chillbilly
05-02-2006, 05:31 PM
One need only to ask tony what he knows and give him the floor to get him to finally shut up and stop babbling.

MadeinUSA
05-02-2006, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM]

James 3528
05-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM]

Yep


Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. BTW jamey, we are debating very big business, not your part time hack one man show!!

I have deducted after reading your posts early in the morning that you are actually dumber in the morning. Hard to believe you cold actually achieve that considering how stupid you are the rest of the day. .

daytonafan
05-02-2006, 06:36 PM
Hey Tony, I need your advice. I am looking at a Ford Excursion to hall my ATV's to and from my vacation home in Canada. Problem is, my wife likes the H2. Theres more room in the Excursion for my 6 children but the Hummer is bad ASS!

rob10
05-02-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM] Misstatement 10 percent profit of 1.3 trillion dollars is over 40 billion dollars. You did not read EXXON/MOBIL financial statement. You are an idiot maiden.

MadeinUSA
05-02-2006, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by rob10

Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM] Misstatement 10 percent profit of 1.3 trillion dollars is over 40 billion dollars. You did not read EXXON/MOBIL financial statement. You are an idiot maiden. I read it. When did making a bottom line 10 percent NET become illegal you lame brain?

James 3528
05-02-2006, 08:32 PM
Rob puts the dumb in stupid.

rob10
05-02-2006, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10

Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM] Misstatement 10 percent profit of 1.3 trillion dollars is over 40 billion dollars. You did not read EXXON/MOBIL financial statement. You are an idiot maiden. I read it. When did making a bottom line 10 percent NET become illegal you lame brain? It is when it becomes a monopoly. Cheney brought all the head honchos of oil together a few years back to set the stage for price fixing and price gouging.

rob10
05-02-2006, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by James 3528
Rob puts the dumb in stupid. That everytime I read a jamey 4321 post I get a flashback of seeing DELIVERANCE again??!!

MadeinUSA
05-02-2006, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by rob10

Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10

Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by rob10
Considering that 1/3 of a TRILLION dollars is 30 BILLION dollars. "333" Billion is 1/3 of a trillion, NOT 30 Billion.

Edit:

It is people like you who want to vote for Hitlary that is scary too.



[Edited by madeinusa on 05-02-2006 at 05:48 PM] Misstatement 10 percent profit of 1.3 trillion dollars is over 40 billion dollars. You did not read EXXON/MOBIL financial statement. You are an idiot maiden. I read it. When did making a bottom line 10 percent NET become illegal you lame brain? It is when it becomes a monopoly. Cheney brought all the head honchos of oil together a few years back to set the stage for price fixing and price gouging. Go buy a 12-pack. Maybe you will make more sense when you are drunk.

rob10
05-02-2006, 08:43 PM
In deep denial!! A hopeless BUSHDROID!!

MadeinUSA
05-02-2006, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by rob10
In deep denial!! A hopeless BUSHDROID!! And you want to vote for someone who roundfiled the national healthcare program promised to you guys. LMAO

MadeinUSA
05-02-2006, 08:51 PM
Hey Mr. Finance wizard. If corporations are not supposed to evaluate themselves by percentages and determine their prices as a percentage of overhead plus profit, would you mind explaining and showing the NEW formulas they need to use?

tonys
05-03-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by daytonafan
Hey Tony, I need your advice. I am looking at a Ford Excursion to hall my ATV's to and from my vacation home in Canada. Problem is, my wife likes the H2. Theres more room in the Excursion for my 6 children but the Hummer is bad ASS!


...you can start by telling your kids that daddy is doing a solid job messing up the environment for them and their children - I'm sure they'll thank you later.


6 -kids?
huh???
this suggests that you may have yourself an illiterate, uneducated wife that is happy to stay at home pumping out kids like a drunken-mexican...which sort of correlates with the above.
so, the question back to you nascar-dude...what are your hobbies?

James 3528
05-03-2006, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by tonys

Originally posted by daytonafan
Hey Tony, I need your advice. I am looking at a Ford Excursion to hall my ATV's to and from my vacation home in Canada. Problem is, my wife likes the H2. Theres more room in the Excursion for my 6 children but the Hummer is bad ASS!


...you can start by telling your kids that daddy is doing a solid job messing up the environment for them and their children - I'm sure they'll thank you later.


6 -kids?
huh???
this suggests that you may have yourself an illiterate, uneducated wife that is happy to stay at home pumping out kids like a drunken-mexican...which sort of correlates with the above.
so, the question back to you nascar-dude...what are your hobbies?

Mr. Engineer with the MD, BA NBA and NAMBLA

Back up to page one, 9 posts down.

skrewt
05-03-2006, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by tonys
hey Hommie...the additives in fuel are as much for YOUR benefit as any.

do you even consider the benzine exposure when you fill-up your right-wing-nut gas guzzler, and its association with cancer?

do ya?
huh?

Oh Goody! Tony says it's OK to come to his house and regulate everything he does based on whether or not I think it's good for him.
HERE COMES DADDY SKREWT!

skrewt
05-03-2006, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by tonys

Originally posted by daytonafan
Hey Tony, I need your advice. I am looking at a Ford Excursion to hall my ATV's to and from my vacation home in Canada. Problem is, my wife likes the H2. Theres more room in the Excursion for my 6 children but the Hummer is bad ASS!


...you can start by telling your kids that daddy is doing a solid job messing up the environment for them and their children - I'm sure they'll thank you later.


6 -kids?
huh???
this suggests that you may have yourself an illiterate, uneducated wife that is happy to stay at home pumping out kids like a drunken-mexican...which sort of correlates with the above.
so, the question back to you nascar-dude...what are your hobbies?

You probably drive a Hybrid car and love the smell of your own farts. If you drive "ANY" car you are polluting the environment (that includes electrics). So, unless you're walking or riding a bike all the time, sit.

Actually I need to revise that, in your case, if you go out in public you're polluting the environment....so stay home.

tonys
05-03-2006, 11:07 AM
you tell me - oh, google-master???


VOC are released from gasoline, including benzene, toluene, methylene chloride and other nasty stuff.
The effects it has on human health include cancer
(read-up Mr. wanna-be-but-never-will-Scholar).
The effects it has on the environment that are in addition to forming smog, VOCs such as formaldehyde and ethylene harm vegetation and animals.

You want someone to read the books for you?
(that would be a replay of your short and not so stellar educational career)

bootlen
05-03-2006, 11:08 AM
So tony quit his MD job to be an engineer.

You are a man(?) of many talents, tony. You remind me of a statement made by a very wise old man. It goes like this..."Your talents will take you where your integrity cannot sustain you."

If anybody on this board lacks sustenance, it's you.

tonys
05-03-2006, 11:11 AM
'sustenance'?

that's a big word, mullah-boot-tsie


...go pray to your sky-daddy,
and leave the deep thoughts to others.

James 3528
05-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by tonys
you tell me - oh, google-master???


VOC are released from gasoline, including benzene, toluene, methylene chloride and other nasty stuff.
The effects it has on human health include cancer
(read-up Mr. wanna-be-but-never-will-Scholar).
The effects it has on the environment that are in addition to forming smog, VOCs such as formaldehyde and ethylene harm vegetation and animals.

You want someone to read the books for you?
(that would be a replay of your short and not so stellar educational career)

http://www.forgotten-future.com/sink-ship.jpeg

coolprod
05-03-2006, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by tonys

Originally posted by James 3528
I don't. It's next to nothing. In fact your chances of getting cancer or blowing up is greater if you are smoking while filling up.

Nice try Gomer.



how long have you had your MD?

stick to stuff you really know,
like 100 push-ups ON COMMAND.

You have the floor. Tell us what you know.

You are at the pump. Your hand is on the pump. Tell us about the dangers of benzine exposure or forever suffer my wrath

He hasn't answered this yet James?? That's surprising, the fart smeller Ahh, smart feller Tony is!!

tonys
05-03-2006, 03:48 PM
hey dimprod...

long term exposure to benzene and other elements found in gasoline are KNOWN to promote cancer growth and leukemia.


...fundamental stuff, even for a simpleton like yourself.

daytonafan
05-03-2006, 05:04 PM
...you can start by telling your kids that daddy is doing a solid job messing up the environment for them and their children - I'm sure they'll thank you later.

O.K. I will do that. Sounds reasonable


6 -kids?
huh???
this suggests that you may have yourself an illiterate, uneducated wife that is happy to stay at home pumping out kids like a drunken-mexican...which sort of correlates with the above.

I am married to a RN. I don't think she's illiterate unless she's just faking it when she reads the paper in the morning. She does have a degree in English Literature from the University of Michigan. She is French Canadian. We met in Quebec. 3 of the children are ours naturally. 2 we adopted in China. The youngest is actually my nephew. His parents died in a car accident. We are his legal gaurdians.


so, the question back to you nascar-dude...what are your hobbies? [/B][/QUOTE]

I enjoy motocross and ATV riding. I also love camping and hiking. In my spare time I enjoy reading. The last book I read was "1776" by David Mc Cullough. I also am trying to learn how to play the guitar. (Not very good yet) If I am tired and feel like doing nothing, I will occasionally watch Discovery, TLC, The History Channel or ESPN

Hope this helps you out a bit. Although ignorant *******s like you often can't be helped. I'm sorry that you are miserable and need to attack my family to make your wounds hurt less. I will pray for you and wish you the best.

I decided to get the Excursion. I pick it up Friday. I had a DVD player added for the kids.

player89
05-03-2006, 05:17 PM
Sounds like you got your Excursion filled up, daytonafan. Worked with a guy who had one, he called it the "bus". If you are going to have a bus, might as well have it filled. Sure beats everyone climbing into a Civic. Also, nothing more irritating to see a large SUV with one person in it.

Spent some time in the UP last fall, really enjoyed it. Someone recommended Copper Harbor as a stopping place, but we didn't make it.

daytonafan
05-03-2006, 05:24 PM
I actually go through Detroit, Toronto, and Montreal via 401 and 20. Part of her family lives in Maine. The drive from the small town in Quebec to Maine is absolutely gorgeous. Guy at work hunts in the Upper Penn. he is always trying to get me to go. I never find the time and don't like to hunt.

player89
05-03-2006, 05:33 PM
I don't hunt either, but we found plenty to do. Went to Whitefish Bay and the lighthouse and museum. Saw the bell from the Edmund Fitzgerald (was always kind of fascinated by shipwrecks). We spent a couple of days up there...didn't cost much and had a great time.

(A note to stay somewhat close to the topic.):) Got great gas mileage up there, rolled the windows down, turned off the A/C, not many stop signs and got almost 33 mpg with a 6 cyl Chrysler Concorde.

Best trip I ever took.

James 3528
05-03-2006, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by tonys
hey dimprod...

long term exposure to benzene and other elements found in gasoline are KNOWN to promote cancer growth and leukemia.


...fundamental stuff, even for a simpleton like yourself.
You are at the pump. Your hand is on the pump. Tell us about the dangers of benzine exposure or forever suffer my wrath

tonys
05-04-2006, 05:48 AM
are these elements in a gaseous form???


...your wrath? give me a break - lightweight.



[Edited by tonys on 05-04-2006 at 06:41 AM]

bootlen
05-04-2006, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by tonys
are these elements in a gaseous form???


...your wrath? give me a break - lightweight.



[Edited by tonys on 05-04-2006 at 06:41 AM]

LOL! This from the guy who spends most of his time spooning with geer in his sandbox.

James 3528
05-04-2006, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by tonys
are these elements in a gaseous form???


...your wrath? give me a break - lightweight.



[Edited by tonys on 05-04-2006 at 06:41 AM]

You have nothing....you had nothing. This sums up your life.