Satan Santorum

[batdude]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3s.htm

keep this lunatic away from the big red button!

[corny]

One thing I find funny about politics and people.... is that when you have a politician....someone like santorum...or even pat robertson running for political office....it should be very clear to you that these are not religious people.

They usually only serve one master......and that is the almighty dollar.

I honestly dont see how a politician can even be a religious person...like a good christian in america..... because the very nature of their work involves deception and lies.....and that doesnt even begin to cover the shady deals they make behind closed doors.

Obamas a muslim........ NO he is not. He is a christian in name only....like every other politition now...before him and those that will come after him.

Bush...both of them...Clinton....Reagan...... I would say Carter....but Carter was such a bad politician that there must be some good in that dope......lol Nixon, Ford.....all the way back to those inbred non bathing founding fathers......

They were all criminally minded.....looking to gain office in a bid to secure power and affluence for themselves and their cronies.

They will all be burning in hell come judgement day.

When the roll is called up yonder.......none of those mofros gonna be on it.

[cehs]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3s.htm

keep this lunatic away from the big red button!

You must really be afraid he could beat Obama, and do a better job, or you have been deceived by your like minded liberals.

Maybe there is some TRUTH to what he says and you are afraid of that.

Ain't NOBODY perfect.
.

[tunnel_rat]

Oh yes.... the devil incarnate........ much rather have Dear Leader Hussein....'bama pleeezee

[coilcleaner]

satan laughing spreads his wings.

[Texas-Tech]

Typical liberal mindset.

[k-fridge]

Santorum probably is a devout Christian. And I doubt he would abuse his faith in public office.

BUT...this is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to in the other thread. The guy says stupid things that scare people, and that's why I think Obama would annihilate him in an election.

[tunnel_rat]

Devout Christian...? Oh MY. How can that be? What will become of us...?? What could be worse? Hmmmmmmm.............

[k-fridge]

Devout Christian...? Oh MY. How can that be? What will become of us...?? What could be worse? Hmmmmmmm.............
Yeah...when did that become a bad thing?

[tunnel_rat]

Yeah...when did that become a bad thing?

Probably around 1913............

[k-fridge]

Probably around 1913............

More like 2001 if memory serves.

[batdude]

Nitwit Sans-Scrotum Quote: "The idea that the Crusades and the fight of Christendom against Islam is somehow an aggression on our part is absolutely anti-historical. And that is what the perception is by the American Left who hates Christendom. ... What I'm talking about is onward American soldiers. What we're talking about are core American values." (South Carolina campaign stop, Feb. 22, 2011)

Reaction: "If you were worried there wouldn't be a 2012 candidate touting the pro-Crusades platform, then today is your lucky day!" says Jillian Rayfield at Talking Points Memo. The religiously sanctioned European military campaigns were aimed at recapturing Jerusalem, and "along the way the Roman Catholic forces massacred thousands of Jews, among others." I know the Crusades predated the U.S. by a few centuries, but how exactly does this military campaign reflect "core American values"?

WWJS?: Who would Jesus slaughter?

[classical]

Tell me exactly what about that report is not beyond the realm of reason. Any person that believes in God believes in Satan and it is not an unreasonable to see the work of the Devil in the downfall of the US and the rise of people like Obama, Pelosi, Holder and many others.

He is also right about religions look at churches allowing Homosexuals to marry and even be church leaders and ministers.

[glennac]

Nitwit Sans-Scrotum Quote: "The idea that the Crusades and the fight of Christendom against Islam is somehow an aggression on our part is absolutely anti-historical. And that is what the perception is by the American Left who hates Christendom. ... What I'm talking about is onward American soldiers. What we're talking about are core American values." (South Carolina campaign stop, Feb. 22, 2011)

Reaction: "If you were worried there wouldn't be a 2012 candidate touting the pro-Crusades platform, then today is your lucky day!" says Jillian Rayfield at Talking Points Memo. The religiously sanctioned European military campaigns were aimed at recapturing Jerusalem, and "along the way the Roman Catholic forces massacred thousands of Jews, among others.

Wow you really love your saint the Marxist Obama verses a Christian who actually has some concern about Islam. Do you love Islam also? How about America before Obama and LBJ.

Must have disdain for the former non socialist America also. Most on this forum hope to take America back from the anti Christ who is in control now. I will settle for anyone who can beat the real devil. Who is the real Satan?

Obama would surly come close. He has never attented a Christian church. The anti American, anti White "church" he went to in Chicago was in no way a "Christian" church regardless of the name. That is my :.02:. Newt, Rick or Mitt would all be acceptable and in my mind in that order compared to the anti American in there now. Thank you very much

[batdude]

oh, yeah, let's burn some witches

[batdude]

satan laughing spreads his wings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZCyOWLrRTE

[batdude]

[QUOTE=glennac;12530381][QUOTE=batdude;12530161]Nitwit Sans-Scrotum Quote: "The idea that the Crusades and the fight of Christendom against Islam is somehow an aggression on our part is absolutely anti-historical. And that is what the perception is by the American Left who hates Christendom. ... What I'm talking about is onward American soldiers. What we're talking about are core American values." (South Carolina campaign stop, Feb. 22, 2011)

Reaction: "If you were worried there wouldn't be a 2012 candidate touting the pro-Crusades platform, then today is your lucky day!" says Jillian Rayfield at Talking Points Memo. The religiously sanctioned European military campaigns were aimed at recapturing Jerusalem, and "along the way the Roman Catholic forces massacred thousands of Jews, among others.QUOTE]

Wow you really love your saint the Marxist Obama ...


man, you be trippin

[behappy]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3s.htm

keep this lunatic away from the big red button!




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Druge Report

[batdude]

Christian Science Monitor: DOES RICK SANTORUM HAVE A SATAN PROBLEM?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0221/Does-Rick-Santorum-have-a-Satan-problem


Forbes: THE REAL PROBLEM WITH SANTORUM'S SATAN REMARKS

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshbarro/2012/02/21/the-real-problem-with-rick-santorums-satan-remarks/


CBS News: SANTORUM IN '08: "SATAN IS ATTACKING AMERICA'

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57382008-503544/santorum-in-08-satan-is-attacking-america/

[glennac]

Christian Science Monitor: DOES RICK SANTORUM HAVE A SATAN PROBLEM?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0221/Does-Rick-Santorum-have-a-Satan-problem


Forbes: THE REAL PROBLEM WITH SANTORUM'S SATAN REMARKS

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshbarro/2012/02/21/the-real-problem-with-rick-santorums-satan-remarks/


CBS News: SANTORUM IN '08: "SATAN IS ATTACKING AMERICA'

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57382008-503544/santorum-in-08-satan-is-attacking-america/

OK batdude do you support Obama or not and if not who in the Republican race do you support? How about coming clean here. Thank you very much

[cool-in-cayman]

I calculate people who have similar mindsets as batdude are a reasonably small minority.

[Slatts]

satan laughing spreads his wings.

That takes me back. (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/black+sabbath/war+pigs_20019418.html)

Who would have thought old Ozzy would still be kicking round.

[batdude]

OK batdude do you support Obama or not and if not who in the Republican race do you support? How about coming clean here. Thank you very much

Veterans for Ron Paul ---Stop the wars, end the Fed, restore Constitutional Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! quite simple, really




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2xcv5damJA&feature=player_embedded#!

"There's No More News, Merely Entertainment"

or info-tainment, or sick corp/gov pro-faganda, er, slick propaganda I mean





hey, live near there in Gwinnett County, by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvCgeLt8Bcc

[netsalt]

Santorum - theocracy - no place in a democratic republic. But I will be accused of being a Marxist, communist, fascist, atheist no count if I point out how our liberties would be trampled by this man or those of his ilk. Question: Is is Constitutional to require a patient to undergo a procedure that is not medically warranted?

[batdude]

I calculate people who have similar mindsets as batdude are a reasonably small minority.

As I understand it, before the Press became the propaganda mouthpiece for the government, and the advent of computerized vote rigging, they say THAT was actually the sole reason for elections....to precisely determine the majority.

Quaint, I know. But it's right there in the history books.

[classical]

Santorum - theocracy - no place in a democratic republic. But I will be accused of being a Marxist, communist, fascist, atheist no count if I point out how our liberties would be trampled by this man or those of his ilk. Question: Is is Constitutional to require a patient to undergo a procedure that is not medically warranted?

OK I will bite what procedure are you talkig about, I have an idea but I will wait.

[netsalt]

OK I will bite what procedure are you talkig about, I have an idea but I will wait.

Any that is not medically necessary.

[classical]

Any that is not medically necessary.

OK abortions are not medically necessary, breast augmentation, Botox, face lifts, and butt implants to mention a few.

I assume you are talking about ultrasounds by abortion doctors and recording the heartbeat and recommending the woman see and hear her child before she allows it to be murdered.

Why not try being less obtuse and more forthright with your blather.

[glennac]

Veterans for Ron Paul ---Stop the wars, end the Fed, restore Constitutional Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! quite simple, really
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2xcv5damJA&feature=player_embedded#!"There's No More News, Merely Entertainment"
or info-tainment, or sick corp/gov pro-faganda, er, slick propaganda I mean
hey, live near there in Gwinnett County, by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvCgeLt8Bcc

What's your problem bat. So you support Ron Paul. I would vote for him in a heart beat over Obama just like I would almost any living organism who isn't a full fledged alien communist bent on destroying our country like Obama.

Now I haven't tried to trash Ron because I don't believe in some of far out libertarian views. Some are way over the top. But I can handle that if it keeps Obama out. So why are you nuking another Republican candidate?

Are you saying that you would prefer to have a known communist elected to the Presidency with a mandate to destroy our country if your man doesn't get the nomination and would prefer Obama over a moderate American.

And please don't give me that BS that a dedicated communist is the same as a moderate American. Please that is so shallow and false it doesn't deserve a response. Cut us some slack support your man but don't rute for a commie by default. Thank you very much

[netsalt]

OK abortions are not medically necessary, breast augmentation, Botox, face lifts, and butt implants to mention a few.

I assume you are talking about ultrasounds by abortion doctors and recording the heartbeat and recommending the woman see and hear her child before she allows it to be murdered.

Why not try being less obtuse and more forthright with your blather.

So if I have the money to pay cash for botox or some sort of implant the government has the right to make me have an invasive unnecessary procedure to soothe the conscience of a particular group of people. So much for small government. I find it hard to believe these are the same people who say the individual mandate for health care is unconstitutional. :gah:

[classical]

So if I have the money to pay cash for botox or some sort of implant the government has the right to make me have an invasive unnecessary procedure to soothe the conscience of a particular group of people. So much for small government. I find it hard to believe these are the same people who say the individual mandate for health care is unconstitutional. :gah:

You really need to put out a complete coherent thought here because what you are trying relate just is not coming across.

[netsalt]

You really need to put out a complete coherent thought here because what you are trying relate just is not coming across.

Simple concept - theological tyranny should be distasteful to anyone who believes in the Constitution. The GOP is currently courting the far right conservatives with theological arguments because they got nothin else. Santorum is a perfect example of this and will be used as a pawn until something else sticks. Fortunately for the GOP gas prices are going up so they can let this turkey of a talking point die.

[classical]

Simple concept - theological tyranny should be distasteful to anyone who believes in the Constitution. The GOP is currently courting the far right conservatives with theological arguments because they got nothin else. Santorum is a perfect example of this and will be used as a pawn until something else sticks. Fortunately for the GOP gas prices are going up so they can let this turkey of a talking point die.

Tyranny of any sort is unpalatable whether it is Theological or homosexual, socialist or racist (Holder). The thing is a Christian has no chance of promoting theological tyranny because of the media and overload of liberal courts. On the other hand immigration, homosexual, heterosexual promiscuity are tyrannically forced upon the nation through the media and entertainment industry.

You still have not explained your medical references.

[batdude]

What's your problem bat. So you support Ron Paul. I would vote for him in a heart beat over Obama just like I would almost any living organism who isn't a full fledged alien communist bent on destroying our country like Obama.

Now I haven't tried to trash Ron because I don't believe in some of far out libertarian views. Some are way over the top. But I can handle that if it keeps Obama out. So why are you nuking another Republican candidate?

Are you saying that you would prefer to have a known communist elected to the Presidency with a mandate to destroy our country if your man doesn't get the nomination and would prefer Obama over a moderate American.

And please don't give me that BS that a dedicated communist is the same as a moderate American. Please that is so shallow and false it doesn't deserve a response. Cut us some slack support your man but don't rute for a commie by default. Thank you very much


We are in 100% agreement on the fact that one term for the Kenyan is too many.

Now, admitting that reasonable persons may disagree here, the fact is that Ron Paul is the only candidate with a snowball's chance of defeating him. Supporting any of the others is insuring four more years of you know who.

Obama, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum all agree: More war, keep hands off the Fed, wipe your butt on the Bill of Rights. The swing voters yawn and stay home. Soetoro wins in a landslide.

[ga-hvac-tech]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3s.htm

keep this lunatic away from the big red button!

According to a nationally recognized radio talking head: A gallup poll says over 70% of the American people DO BELIEVE there is good and evil, and there IS a God and Satan.

So it would appear Mr Santorum is speaking what the majority of Americans believe. Kinda the way democracy works???

[cool-in-cayman]

Some of you act as though you never heard of good and evil/satan.

Most people right and left agree with Santorum whether they like his politics or not. Good and evil is not abstract in America.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Some of you act as though you never heard of good and evil/satan.

Most people right and left agree with Santorum whether they like his politics or not. Good and evil is not abstract in America.

And in the rest of the world (maybe not as much in Western Europe); folks talk about good/evil in the open. I think the USA media is trying to ignore a belief system of the masses for political friends.

[batdude]

"We look at the shape of mainline Protestantism in this country and it is in shambles, it is gone from the world of Christianity as I see it."

very mainstream, absolutely oozes sensibility from every pore

[netsalt]

Simple concept - theological tyranny should be distasteful to anyone who believes in the Constitution. The GOP is currently courting the far right conservatives with theological arguments because they got nothin else. Santorum is a perfect example of this and will be used as a pawn until something else sticks. Fortunately for the GOP gas prices are going up so they can let this turkey of a talking point die.

24 hours have passed and they are on to the new talking point.

[classical]

24 hours have passed and they are on to the new talking point.

Post some obtuse drivel and never clarify your thoughts and you blame others for moving to another subject. Typical liberal tactic never come to the point and flesh out a subject.

[netsalt]

I guess the conservative mind can't comprehend complex ideas, it's OK everyone else understands.

[classical]

Santorum - theocracy - no place in a democratic republic. But I will be accused of being a Marxist, communist, fascist, atheist no count if I point out how our liberties would be trampled by this man or those of his ilk. Question: Is is Constitutional to require a patient to undergo a procedure that is not medically warranted?

I doubt seriously that anyone on this forum could fathom the meaning behind this post including you since you have been unable to clarify your point yet.

Your posts never have any substantive meaning or thought out relevant point.

Several of the other liberals on this forum at least make an attempt at relevance and rational thought.

[classical]

I guess the conservative mind can't comprehend complex ideas, it's OK everyone else understands.

Complex yes we can understand complex thought; minimalist, incomplete, ill defined drivel no!

[netsalt]

Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure? Give it another shot - it really isn't that complex.

[classical]

Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure? Give it another shot - it really isn't that complex.

Simple answer no they do not.

Now answer my question what procedure are you refering to.

[netsalt]

The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.

[classical]

The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.

I knew where you were going with this sure took a lot to get it out of you.

We passed this bill in Texas last year and so far it has held up to scrutiny. I do not know about the Virginia law but in Texas the bill requires an abortion doctor to perform an ultrasound and make it and a recording of the baby’s heartbeat available to the mother. The mother has to take 24 hrs. to make a decision one to see the ultrasound or hear the heartbeat. They are not forced to just have it offered, after 24 hrs. they can choose to have an abortion if they still wish. From what I understand many have chosen to have the child instead of killing the child.

Now any legitimate doctor (I do not consider any doctor that performs an abortion except under very few instances legitimate) that is going to perform an abortion is already going to perform an ultrasound prior to the killing of the child; therefore nothing is being forced on the patient by the government.

[cool-in-cayman]

The proposed procedure that brought this to my attention was the transvaginal ultrasound in Virginia. My concern is twofold, one, if we allow the government this kind of control over a legal procedure where does it stop? and two, from all appearances this was a political tactic to curtail access to abortion to satisfy a particular voting bloc. The way I see it the GOP is trying to craft legislation to buy votes, this time they seriously miscalculated the blow back and are in full retreat.

Before a doctor is allowed to mutilate a living baby in the womb while it's legs are still kicking, is it too much to ask for an ultra sound to be done?

The woman can always refuse the ultrasound and not have the living moving baby butchered in her womb.

God help us.

[Special Ed]

Seems simple to me. Do you think the government has the constitutional power to force a citizen to have an unnecessary medical procedure?

Like getting an abortion? Yeah, it may be legal because the SCOTUS said it is but no Congress actually passed a law saying it was legal. And, for that matter, I would even question the Constitutionality of said procedure since the Constitution sees life as an inalienable right.

So, if you're asking if performing an ultrasound to prevent abortion is Constitutional or not, I would have to say it's as Constitutional as the procedure it's trying to prevent.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Laws and morality are NOT the same.

And one CANNOT legislate morality... it is a choice; A choice to do the right thing regardless of whether it is convenient or not. This is also called maturity.

Just because the law says this is or is not bad... or this is or is not good... does NOT make it so. Morality is a personal conviction of what is right and wrong.

The legal system of the land was NOT meant to define morality... it was and is meant to pass judgement on folks who choose to not make the right decisions in their lives... as a deterrant to those folks doing the wrong things again and again.

BIG difference.

[netsalt]

I knew where you were going with this sure took a lot to get it out of you.

We passed this bill in Texas last year and so far it has held up to scrutiny. I do not know about the Virginia law but in Texas the bill requires an abortion doctor to perform an ultrasound and make it and a recording of the baby’s heartbeat available to the mother. The mother has to take 24 hrs. to make a decision one to see the ultrasound or hear the heartbeat. They are not forced to just have it offered, after 24 hrs. they can choose to have an abortion if they still wish. From what I understand many have chosen to have the child instead of killing the child.

Now any legitimate doctor (I do not consider any doctor that performs an abortion except under very few instances legitimate) that is going to perform an abortion is already going to perform an ultrasound prior to the killing of the child; therefore nothing is being forced on the patient by the government.

My argument is not with this particular instance of government intrusion in to what is a personal decision it is how it is used as a political football to garner votes. The procedure is legal whether you or I feel it is moral is another discussion entirely. I just can't see how the same people that feel requiring health insurance is unconstitutional feel that legislating unneeded medical procedures is perfectly OK.

[classical]

My argument is not with this particular instance of government intrusion in to what is a personal decision it is how it is used as a political football to garner votes. The procedure is legal whether you or I feel it is moral is another discussion entirely. I just can't see how the same people that feel requiring health insurance is unconstitutional feel that legislating unneeded medical procedures is perfectly OK.

You completely miss understand the reason for the legislation. I know personally one of the State Senators that wrote the Texas Bill. It is about wanting young women to have a full understanding of the consequence of their actions. Abortions are a huge business (cash cow) for the doctors that perform them. They and Planned Parenthood have no vested interest in offering troubled vulnerable young women an option. If a young woman looks at an ultrasound video/picture and hears the heartbeat she at least has a full understanding of the true cost of her actions. I remember seeing the ultrasound of my granddaughter and it brings home immediately that there is a life there.

A doctor is going to do the ultrasound regardless, he needs to know what is going on inside; even if he does not care about the child he wants to protect himself from a lawsuit. Therefore the state is not really forcing anything on the woman.

As to the legality sorry not true that it is legal, this is a states right issue not federal and the Supreme Court had not legal justification for ROE V WADE.

I understand you just do not get it but that is what this current election and the TEA PARTY is all about getting back to states’ rights.

Now the federal government does not have the right to force a medical procedure on someone but a state may in certain instances. For instance there are several religious groups that feel it is wrong to use a doctor or medical care. That is fine as long as they do not put a child in jeopardy however if a child has a medical condition that requires medical care or they will die then the state has the right to step in.

[ga-hvac-tech]

My argument is not with this particular instance of government intrusion in to what is a personal decision it is how it is used as a political football to garner votes. The procedure is legal whether you or I feel it is moral is another discussion entirely. I just can't see how the same people that feel requiring health insurance is unconstitutional feel that legislating unneeded medical procedures is perfectly OK.


You completely miss understand the reason for the legislation. I know personally one of the State Senators that wrote the Texas Bill. It is about wanting young women to have a full understanding of the consequence of their actions. Abortions are a huge business (cash cow) for the doctors that perform them. They and Planned Parenthood have no vested interest in offering troubled vulnerable young women an option. If a young woman looks at an ultrasound video/picture and hears the heartbeat she at least has a full understanding of the true cost of her actions. I remember seeing the ultrasound of my granddaughter and it brings home immediately that there is a life there.

A doctor is going to do the ultrasound regardless, he needs to know what is going on inside; even if he does not care about the child he wants to protect himself from a lawsuit. Therefore the state is not really forcing anything on the woman.

As to the legality sorry not true that it is legal, this is a states right issue not federal and the Supreme Court had not legal justification for ROE V WADE.

I understand you just do not get it but that is what this current election and the TEA PARTY is all about getting back to states’ rights.

Now the federal government does not have the right to force a medical procedure on someone but a state may in certain instances. For instance there are several religious groups that feel it is wrong to use a doctor or medical care. That is fine as long as they do not put a child in jeopardy however if a child has a medical condition that requires medical care or they will die then the state has the right to step in.

Couple of thoughts here:

First: We need to remember that ALL polecats use the legal system to promote their careers... lets not say the GOP are the only ones. DEMS do it all the time.

Back to the abortion issue: Back in the 1980's and 1990's, I served in the local churches I was in with the counseling team; we did what is called 'Biblical Counseling'. The deff is to apply scripture and prayer to issues in someone's life. When you see one of the TV preachers put up a phone # for prayer... well I was on the other end of that line. Did it for Pat Robertson, for Billy Graham, and for a host of others. Also did the 'walk-down' counseling (at the end of a Billy Graham or a Promise keepers); when folks went down for help with their messed up lives... I was one of the folks who worked with them. This was a rewarding ministry... it is special to see folks get their lives together.

From doing this; I gained a HUGE amount of experience sorting out folks problems; especially the effect certain decisions have on folks. I can tell you guys/gals that it is the RARE instance where a woman having an abortion does not seriously scar her soul (we relate through our souls). And when a woman chooses to terminate the life of her baby... the father goes through a gut-wrenching mess. I cannot count the number of folks who needed years of emotional help to get their lives back together. Just weaklings you say... No; there was one trait which was universal with the ones whom it did not affect much: A seriously COLD attitude towards everyone... kinda like Saddaam Hussein. Note that the ministries will not allow cross gender one-one counseling, with good reason. The situations I was in included both the mother/father... so we had a man/woman counselor on these this cases.

The pro-choice folks never tell anyone about the emotional damage having an abortion does to both the man and woman... they are ONLY interested in the $$$. Imagine that: LEGALIZED murder to buy the votes of MD's... And guess what: THAT was the DEMS who did that one. "So much for the GOP being the horrible manipulators."